Nov 08
It wasn’t easy, but Arsenal managed a victory with goals from Pires and Freddie.
Spurs grabbed an early lead, but a determined Gunners side kept pushing and grabbed all three points.
From listening to the radio broadcast, Lauren was horrid.
43 Responses to “Arsenal 2 -1 Spurs”
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November 8th, 2003 at 2:50 pm
I haven’t watched the game yet (much like a lot of us, I have to wait til Tuesday…mmm Aimee Mann…) but from your comment I’m not surprised regarding Lauren. I never rated him much anyway, and he’s own-goaled on us more than a few times in 2003. I don’t agree with his 4-match ban, but really, will any of us MISS him?
— Geoff
November 8th, 2003 at 3:16 pm
According to the TV commentary Lauren was not 100% going in to the game. He was awful - that’s true, but if he wasn’t 100% one wonders where’s the cover? On loan somewhere?
November 8th, 2003 at 3:41 pm
I will miss him. The picture of Lauren with the chokehold on Neville is enough for him to have a special place in my heart.
November 8th, 2003 at 5:00 pm
Horrid… and Awful…
Ummm… watch the match, I don’t really think I’d call his performance either of those…
It wasn’t his best match… I do think he’s done fairly well this season… and we have no other option at the moment…
So, seeing that we have more points at this point in the season than ANY ARSENAL TEAM IN HISTORY… and we have not lost a single match in the EPL all season……and we are TOP of the LEAGUE… I don’t think Lauren or anyone on the squad can be doing to badly…
We have been excellent all year (as a whole)…
Have very little to complain about…
so lets get POSITIVE and BEHIND the team and players…
Great win for us… came back from 1-0 with 2 goals in the last 21 minutes…
Bergy played well when he was subbed on…
changed the match… good for him…
This is the type of match we have to grind out and get the win…..(same as our 1-0 CL win)…
AWESOME ARSENAL!!!!!!!!
November 8th, 2003 at 5:50 pm
Come on Guys,
True the guy had a bad day but Please and please again the end results that counts..
He was not fit and if you look at it from another view point this poor guy had played in every Arsenal game this season apart from the worth nothing cup.
We all have our bad days and I guess he knows that but dont make a big deal out of this.
We won and thank God we beat the Scums across the raod..On top of the league and going strong.
This was not just a win but beating Sp@@@rs.. If you know what I mean..
November 8th, 2003 at 6:26 pm
That’s an understatement Rick. I thought Ralph had secretly signed for Spertz with the way he was laying off balls to Postiga in the first half! What bothered me today was our distribution of the ball in defence. We looked like a pub team that plays at Hackney Marshes on Sunday mornings with the way we were giving the ball away at the back. Too many unnecessary back passes for my liking. Gilberto as well was totally out of synch today. Probably due to the fact that he was wearing gloves. Maybe Wednesday did take a lot out of them, but to have lost to a mediocre side as Spertz today would’ve been too much to handle. Even so, one can’t moan as the old saying goes….’the quality of a title winning side is when they can scrape a win without playing well’…..which is exactly what happened today.
November 8th, 2003 at 6:29 pm
Geoff,
I hate to slag off Arsenal players myself, but both Ralph and Gilberto had ‘mares today. The sooner AW gets Volz back from Fulham the better, because if Taggart, Ranieiri, Houllier and Robson see today’s game they’ll spot that we are vunerable on the right flank in defence.
November 8th, 2003 at 6:30 pm
connid,
The cover for Ralph is currently plying his trade at Fulham. Sooner AW gets him back the better.
November 8th, 2003 at 6:32 pm
Even so Sassy, he could’ve cost us the game today with the lay-offs he set up for Postiga.
November 8th, 2003 at 6:36 pm
I don’t want to criticise either stag, but thank God Postiga wasn’t on top of his game today otherwise we’d be questioning how we threw 3 points away to such a crap side as Spertz.
November 8th, 2003 at 6:38 pm
Very true. A win’s a win after all, but what worries is that we are weak on that side of defence and I for one would like to see Volz get a chance to prove himself as he’s been doing the business at Fulham this season.
November 8th, 2003 at 10:40 pm
????
this is like playing coulda shoulda woulda…
they scored ONE goal…
I don’t think Lauren played well today…
but he is not a bad player… the back 4 has
been our strength for most of the season…
Lauren Toure Campbell Cole
GUESS WHAT… that INCLUDES Lauren…
its like the back-up quarterback… everybody wants to see him play… because he must be great?!!!!
and Volz? hasn’t played a freaking minute for us this season….. its been all LAUREN… and we are undefeated…..
I am sorry, but I am getting really tired of one player or another being a punching bag….
last year it was Kanu… this year its Wiltord/Lauren
….
and in Paddy’s absence… which has been quite a while….. GILBERTO has played very well…
yet someone said he had a nightmare match?
do folks actually WATCH the matches closely?
why is the feedback so negative the majority of
the time…. I am mystified….. you’d never guess we were UN-FREAKING-DEFEATED!!!!!!!!
November 8th, 2003 at 10:47 pm
you’ll get your wish when Lauren is suspended for 4 matches…
what has Volz ever done at Arsenal? ZERO!!!
if he was so great… Arsene’ wouldn’t have sent him packing… I hope he plays remotely close to the level Lauren has this season…
Pennant is the same story…
he still couldn’t start for us… and would be lucky to get playing time here…
I was totally against Volz / Pennant… etc…..being loaned out…… AT FIRST….
now… I understand it much better….
they are NOT good enough to play for us right now… at least they will be getting valuable learning time at the top level SOMEWHERE ELSE…
because from the responses I see here…
(and I hope this attitude is just on the American side of the pond)… these guys would be given NO TIME to develop….. they’d be hooted off the pitch…
November 8th, 2003 at 10:50 pm
love_Gunners…
THANK YOU …
I feel much like you do….
as I am TIRED of hearing all the negative crap on Arsenal America… ripping our own players … on a team that is undefeated…
and…
when we WIN… and PLAY WELL….
there is virtually NOTHING SAID on this list…
we beat the hell out of Leeds… and there was nearly a peep on Arsenal America…
unbelievable… do you people want us to succeed?
November 9th, 2003 at 12:06 am
Stag, I appreciate that you feel the way that you do, but I don’t think ANYONE is above criticism, EVER. EVERYONE can improve. Yes, EVERYONE. And you’re right, you’d never guess we were undefeated when you turn around, and see that we have played for the most part like crapola in the Champs League. Yeah, we won against Dynamo Wednesday, but it doesn’t take away that we were embarrased by both Dynamo and Inter as well.
My comments about Lauren are just that — mine. I don’t think he’s all that good, and he has cost us games with his own-goal habit. If you like him, more power to ya, but I’m not going to be blind to his faults.
And no, it HASN’T been all Lauren, there are 3 other people sharing that end of the pitch with him wearing Arsenal shirts. Team sport, remember?
— Geoff
November 9th, 2003 at 1:34 am
Hmmm,
Well I taugh are a few happy people here.. This was not just a win but beating this Sh$t lot.
What can I say about some of these guys having a go at Lauren.. We play on Wednesday and Spurs did not. The guy was not fit but who cares we won ..
So guys I will say this again back off a bit and let be happy with the win.. We beat the scams. Mr Wenger and the team are doing very well if you look at the funds the club have at the moment..
Be part of the winning team and not against the players esp. when we winning..
And for your information the scores was 2-1 to the real team in north london
November 9th, 2003 at 1:05 pm
I have seen almost every match this season…
what match did he “cost us”…? because we haven’t lost one in the league…
and he certainly wasn’t responsible for the losses in the CL either…
I just don’t understand the criticism… its as simple as that… we can agree to disagree…
don’t see how slagging him off will help either…
there is no replacement for him…
When we sign Stephen Carr… or bring in a big name in January… both unlikely at this point…
I will be all for it… I think he has done an admirable job in defense…
you… do not…
we are still undefeated and top of the league…
and he has something to do with that…
25 goals for / 10 against…. pretty damned good…
For once…
I would really like to see people happy with a win…
happy with our form… we have hung players out to dry on this forum… discussed the fall of the Arsenal empire after a draw v.Portsmouth, and a loss to Inter… ??????
Maybe its me…. I don’t understand it at all…
I read the Arsenal List… which is the supporters list from England… and its no where near as negative as this one…. no matter what happens on the pitch…. I wonder why there is such a disparity in perspective…
November 9th, 2003 at 4:10 pm
True we’re top of the league undefeated, and as I said before if you win games with below par performances then you deserve to win the league. But there’s another saying in the game…..you’re only as good as in your last game….and I think Lauren and Gilberto must take a look at themselves and question whether they did enough on Saturday to help us get three points against the scum.
November 9th, 2003 at 4:13 pm
Spot on Geoff;) Like I said in one of my other posts, the way Ralph played in the first half I thought he must’ve signed for the N17 scumbags.
November 9th, 2003 at 4:16 pm
stag,
You can’t be serious in suggesting that Ralph had a good game on Saturday are you? He played like he should’ve been wearing a white shirt with Thomsons emblazoned on the front instead of a red shirt.
November 9th, 2003 at 4:21 pm
Believe you me anytime we do the b@$t@rd$ from the down the road I’m a happy camper, but I feel that I’m entitled to slag off any player who doesn’t do the business for us whether we win, lose or draw. Anyone who says that Ralph or Gilberto did okay need their eyes tested as their put in below par performances!
November 9th, 2003 at 4:27 pm
The reason why Volz has never played in the first team is that AW hasn’t given him a chance. Hopefully with Ralph’s four match ban starting next week, Wenger will call him back from Loftus Road and give him the opportunity he deserves. From what I’ve seen of him on the telly out here, he looks the business. Two weeks ago he marked Van Nistelroy out of the game. If he can do that with an average Premiership team like Fulham (no disrepect to Fulham) then I’m sure he can handle the pressure week in week out for Arsenal.
November 9th, 2003 at 4:29 pm
In answer to your post, although we played Leeds off the park last week you have to admit that a Subbuteo team could beat Leeds at the present moment in time
November 9th, 2003 at 7:04 pm
Never said he had a “good game”…
Horrid and Awful… those don’t really describe his play in my opinion either… he did NOT play well…
we won… he was not the deciding factor in the match… was he?
November 9th, 2003 at 7:08 pm
with that train of thought…
when Henry has a bad match… lets rip him to shreds as well…
who else has had a bad match ….. hmmmmmm…
EVERYONE has had a few… no need to call them out…
we won…. we are undefeated…
I’ll throw an old sport quote out to you as well…
“if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”…
UNDEFEATED, TOP OF THE LEAGUE….
must not be broke…
November 9th, 2003 at 7:12 pm
why not applaud our effort…?
why is the list only RABID when we play poorly?
why is it because Leeds played bad… actually,
we played WELL…
we played well in the last CL match as well…
we won that too…. where are the accolades for a job well done….
??????????????
I didn’t see too many of those positive words for our last few victories… and we beat spurtz…
and we say….. wow that Lauren and Gilberto sucked!!!!!!!!!
I just don’t get it…..
November 9th, 2003 at 11:42 pm
Well Said,
I was chating to some fews Gunners today after the Utd /Pool and this topic came up.
The first thing I was told is if anyone is going to say something negative about the Arsenal players yesterday then they are not living on the real planet.. 1st they should look at the team and tell me how many games the starting 11 had played this season compare to Utd or Chelsea. At the same time read today’s Sunday Mirror about what the Chairman said.
We still on top without the money and of course some of these guys are going to play bad here and there. This is part of football but these negative comments are not really welcome if you are a real Gunners..
We won and I will repeat it. We won and beat the sh$t out of Sp@rs.
Be a Gunner and be happy with what we got..
Hey Stag I guess we are the ONLY Gunners left here..
PEACE
November 10th, 2003 at 1:05 am
OH BOY CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A YOU’RE NOT A REAL GUNNER FLAMEWAR HUH HUH CAN WE CAN WE?
November 10th, 2003 at 1:57 am
So what you are basically saying is that no Arsenal fan has a right to voice any criticism on here. You ever heard of the first amendement???…..i.e. FREE SPEECH
November 10th, 2003 at 1:59 am
Geoff,
I wonder what this guy’s reaction would’ve been had we lost to Spertz on Saturday
November 10th, 2003 at 11:21 am
Just think about this and be a bit reasonable here. Yes you have the right to your views.
Well let get something straight here first. Free Speech is just a phase and secondly as a Brit I don?t believe in the first amendment. Is just another so-called rights we have but stands for nothing. And to prove it to you look at this country today and tell me where is the free speech and first amendment.
Back to football. The point is some players had a bad day on Saturday and we all know that but what I cant understand is some people making a big deal out of this. People in Politics always tell us what is wrong but never look at the root course of it.
So back to my point we won and top of the leagues. But the real problem with Arsenal is not the players but the club is general. We lack the funds and resources compare to others behind us in the table. The manager and chairman both said it. Until the new stadium is built things are not going to be that easy. And everyone will tell you at Highbury. The club is doing the best with the little resources they have. No two ways about this. The stadium had to be built and is going to take a heavy poll on the players playing 2 games a week. Spurs had a week to prepare for this game and we did not. Play a hard game on Wednesday.
November 10th, 2003 at 11:36 am
I think the criticism of Lauren is a bit harsh. True, he had a bad game and could have cost us the points but he wasn’t fit and probably shouldn’t have been picked by Arsene. Maybe you guys want to start slagging him off?
Lauren’s been a solid if not spectacular player for us and Voltz is looking good at Fulham so it will be good to have both competing for a place but there’s no guarantee that Voltz will end up as first choice.
Overall I thought Arsenal played poorly but we got the points and that’s all that matters.
November 10th, 2003 at 11:52 am
Well said and mention..
The end results that counts… I am with you 100% here. Blame the Boss for playing someone who was not fit.. Maybe others may say the boss had to be suck the same way they are having a go at the players..
Oh Yes, They have the right to thier views…
November 10th, 2003 at 1:48 pm
I personally have never said that you are NOT a Gunner if you say whatever…
I have been in many silly disagreements on the Arsenal list from the UK… where some feel you aren’t a TRUE Gooner… unless you are British… or live in London… etc etc…
so… I take no responsibility for that comment…
if we LOST to Spurs… I certainly wouldn’t place all the blame on one or two players…
our starters play alot more than United’s and Chelsea’s… our squads aren’t as big or as good…
but our starting 11 is among the best in the world…
simply… Viera has had some BAD matches this year… Henry has had a few…
Campbell played some bad ones… Kolo has had his share of mis-steps… why not call for ALL THEIR HEADS…
virtually everyone has at some point… I think an undefeated team must be doing something pretty damned good…
ALL of THEM… not just a select few…
you can say whatever you wish….
and I can defend the players I feel have done an amazing job… remain undefeated and top of the league… and right now… I would defend EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM…
quite frankly, I am proud of them all…
November 10th, 2003 at 2:32 pm
Sure,
Everyone is right here and is good to debate issues. Am new to this but enjoy reading the views put across by others.
Being in the country for less than 2 week for work and happy with what I saw at smiths.
But I have to admit, one guy made a very good point. Dont blame the players. If he is not fit why did le boss field him. “We might as well get rid of le boss”. That is silly or crazy to even think about that.
I agree with Love_Gunner for the points he came out with. The root course and the future of Arsenal as a whole. Arsenal cant just borrow and spent and if they do that it will be the end of the Club. They need a new staduim and is going to take resources from other goals ie buying more players..
The same 11 have being playing each week and sometimes twice a week. Parlour was the best player on saturday but will he have started this game if Captain Pat was fit.
I want to hear more about the win and guess le boss feel the same with 2 weeks to get things right
That is why I think is wrong to hang the players high and dry. It was a derby and to me it does matter how we beat him. I will even take 2 own goals.
November 10th, 2003 at 2:37 pm
Dont let them kick us out of the country..lol
You are in America so be American..col…
I have to say I agree with your points but you also have to understand others.
November 10th, 2003 at 2:58 pm
My my this is a sensitive topic. I’m going to throw in my 2p and then flee to a quiet corner somewhere.
1. Re-read Rick’s post. It’s not all negative or all positive. He acknowledges that the Gunners were “determined” which I think we can agree is a good trait. And he acknowledges that Lauren had a bad game. So it’s not all negative as some people have claimed.
2. Whether or not you believe in the first amendment or freedom of speech, supporting a football club is not about requiring undying positivity. If you want to support a club by never saying anything bad about them, then that’s great. But it doesn’t make you more or less of a fan than somebody who watches the same game, cheers the same result, and criticises a player’s performance. You can support a team and complain that someone out there could have cost us the win. You don’t have to make those observations, but you don’t have to ignore them either.
3. We’re top of league, great. But as Arsene likes to point out, we shouldn’t be going around limiting ourselves by comparing ourselves to the other teams. We should be competing against ourselves to be the best team we can. We’re undefeated, but we’ve tied games. I’m sure Arsene and the whole team would rather we won them. So we’re top. We could be better. And if we start being content at just being one point ahead of Chelsea, then there’s a good chance we’re going to be kicking ourselves in the run-in.
4. A lot of us support the team and have our own ideas about how we’d like things done, who we’d like to see playing. Part of supporting a team for some people is playing manager. And as a manager, you don’t ignore bad performances even if you get the right result. If Arsene watched Lauren’s performance and didn’t say something to him about it, he’d be a terrible manager. And we all know he isn’t a terrible manager. Likewise, if somebody performs very well, then full credit should be given. It’s not a one-way street. So I’m happy to say, for example, that Pires is starting to perform again, looking to getting back some of the form from ‘01-’02. And Freddie’s starting to show some of that too. Great! But everyone has bad days, and that doesn’t mean that they should be ignored.
5. Some people show their passion for a team with unquestioning support. Others show their passion by vitriolic demolition of a side. There is a huge middle ground between these two positions. In any situation, people are demonstrating that they care very strongly about Arsenal whether it’s by complimenting or criticising. People from different view points should be able to discuss their interpretations and opinions of matches, but at no point should anyone here be questioning someone else’s devotion to Arsenal.
OK, I think I’m done. Back into hiding…
November 10th, 2003 at 4:31 pm
Even though, as I said before, overall Arsenal played poorly I thought there were many positives.
1. We won
2. Pires is showing signs of coming back to his best.
3. Likewise Freddie.
4. The best I’ve seen from Kanu in a long time.
5. We won
I’ve enjoyed reading this discussion and it’s good to see there are plently of Arsenal fans in North America who care about the team. No matter what your view it’s good that people took the time to read the comments and make their point.
Well done ArsenalAmerica for providing the forum.
November 10th, 2003 at 5:13 pm
Excellent post, Seagunner. I think the two lines of thought seen most often both are two extreme and too often miss the boat on what really goes on. This team is not necessarily as good as some would believe or as bad as some fear. The reality is this is a very good team that will only get better as the year goes on in all phases if we stay healthy and avoid more time in the FA’s Breakfast Club detention halls. This team as it is can win the Premiership and the FA Cup and possibly the Carling Cup if the youngsters get us deep in it. It’s the European Cup that looks the greatest challenge to this bunch(ignoring the fact that we are still fighting to emerge from the Group Stage) as the lack of variation in our attack up front(no aerial threat at Centre-Forward)leaves us easier for TOP European teams to keep at bay. All that said sign a Number Nine who’ll head in goals and who knows how good this team can be the next several years.
On criticism of players it is fair when warranted. No doubt Lauren had a ‘mare-think he’d agree himself-Saturday. But one really bad day will not trouble him. And it shouldn’t us, either. He’s a more-than- solid choice at right-back. The same with Gilberto. No, the derby’s pace and intensity caught him out a bit, but it’s Parlour who’s there to provide the bite-back in central midfield, as Vieira would if healthy. Gilberto takes way too much stick in general anyway-with more goals than forum(here and elsewhere)favorites Edu and Parlour COMBINED-and that DOES count for something. I think you’re fine with any of those three next to a healthy Vieira-each capable of supplying different things both in attack and defence and of course in mid-field. Let me say I like Ray-zor BUT he is VERY over-rated on all boards. He’s Arsenal through-and-through as a player, and he is English, and a good team man, and tireless worker and fearless tackler BUT he is GOD AWFUL going forward and with the ball at his feet. For a skilled winger I rate his passing as poorly as Sol’s or Gilberto’s and his shooting is worse than Gilberto’s. That’s why i was so delighted for him when he scored that goal against Chelsea to win the Cup Final at Cardiff but couldn’t laugh to hard when the webcast bloke said it’s only Ray Parlour, because I was thinking the same thing although not so happily. Still he’s good for the team and his versatility very valuable. Just his offensive skills are non-existant.
The point is he gets a lot less stick than he may deserve right now. While Gilberto gets a lot more than is deserved really. I am not going to say to criticize or question our club or players but don’t over-react to a SINGLE mistake or match. And once that match is over if that player’s performance improves stop slagging them for the sake of it. Saturday we looked jaded as a team. My guess is Wenger knew it and was willing to sit back and absorb S***s attacks and hit them on the counter like at Leeds until the players felt their way back into form. We gave up a bad goal and weren’t really ready to chase the game. That made us sloppier and nearly cost us. Still we kept our heads up and never quit and I never doubted the equaliser would come. The question was would it come soon enough to give a chance to go out for the winner. Fortunately, it did. When Pires scored, it was “One-One to the Arsenal” - there would only be ONE winner and that’s who won. But we were far from our sharpest in a lot of positions. Still ANY win over S***s by ANY way you win it is bloody marvellous. We should remember that today…
November 11th, 2003 at 4:03 am
FOR THIS GAME, I DON’T CARE HOW WE PLAYED. I DON’T CARE THAT FREDDIE’S GOAL WAS DEFLECTED. (IT COULD HAVE COME OFF HIS ARSE FROM TWO YARDS OUT, I WOULDN’T CARE).
IN A LOCAL DERBY IT’S ALL ABOUT WINNING AND IF LAUREN AND GILBERTO WEREN’T UP TO IT OUR VICTORY IS THAT MUCH SWEETER COS WE WON WITH NINE PLAYERS.
THIS GAME IS OVER, ROLL ON BIRMINGHAM. NOW, THAT COULD BE A TOUGH NUT TO CRACK.
November 11th, 2003 at 7:25 pm
Theres an awful lot to read here but I didnt see anyone mention Henry and his “acting”? The blow to the throat seemed a bit overdone and whats with him being so concerned with the referees calls all of a sudden. He seems a touch preoccupied and I wonder if its that we dont have the second threat up front; he is getting so much more attention.
Determined is a great word. We had 65% of the possession at one point. Results are most important!
November 12th, 2003 at 12:21 am
With due respect KYG, he had just been smacked near his Adam’s Apple by Carr and the situatation could’ve been far worse had Gary Lewin not rushed to attend to him immediately. I know….I’ve seen someone almost choke to death after he was hit in the same part of his throat. So to accuse TH14 of making a meal out of it is out of line.
November 15th, 2003 at 12:15 pm
hmmmmm…..
according to much of this forum…..
you can say anything you want…..
and even if we win 9-0….. rip the players…
so…. why anyone would question TH… claim he acted … and wonder why it was not an issue brought up…… is weelllllllllllllllllll beyond me…
I’ll stick to the positive…
and support the players… as I don’t believe we are a bunch of cheats…. divers….
Just like I don’t believe Lauren is a bad player or defender….
JUST WIN BABY……
we keep winning…… I’ll keep being positive….
let all the doom-sayers complain about HOW we won or the performance of players on the WINNING team…..