My parents just got back from a recent excursion to Ireland. They traveled throughout the rural areas and visited a number of pubs in small villages. While at a particular pub they found about 30 locals watching the tele and commenting on the CL match between our Arsenal and Moscow. My parents do not follow the Arsenal much but due to my love they thought they would sit and watch. In the 88th minute the Arsenal score to win and my mother jumps up and begins to cheer. She suddenly notices she is the only one. She sits down and my father leans over to a small group and asks,”Do the Irish not love Arsenal FC?” The whole table agrees “They have too many blacks!” My parents, who live in Baltimore, were abit taken aback, but apparently racism in the rural areas is not nearly as taboo as it is in the States.
Another interesting note they learned was that you dont order a black and tan in an Irish pub. You must order a “half and half.” Apparently the British asked the Irish to fight side by side during WW1 and the Irish would win their freedom. When the war ended and freedom did not come civil unrest prevailed in Ireland. The British responded by sending their military criminals, dressed in black shirts and tan pants, into Ireland to stop the unrest. The “Black and Tan” were incredibly brutal and the Irish have not forgotten. The term Arsenal apparently reminds several of the military oppression that England held over Ireland and another reason why many Irish dislike us. Who’d a thunk?
16 Responses to “A trip to Ireland”
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November 17th, 2003 at 11:49 am
As an Irish Arsenal fan I thought I’d make a few comments.
Unfortunately in Ireland like other places there is racism but it’s no better or worse than anywhere else. I’ve never heard of anyone being against Arsenal because “They have too many blacks!” and to be honest I’m glad those type of people don’t support Arsenal.
Arsenal are actually one of the best supported teams in Ireland mainly because of the strong Irish connection back in the 70’s when Brady, Stapleton, O’leary, Jennings, Rice, Nelson were all playing for the gunners.
November 17th, 2003 at 12:15 pm
FYI - a “half and half” is Harp and Guiness - also available in good Irish bars in the US… Black and Tans always seemed like a bad idea to me, mixing of an English ale with Guinness…
As for the Irish supporting Arsenal, when I was there a few years ago, many supported Leeds. But that was during the O’Leary days… Too bad about the racist comments, I guess small town hicks are the same the world over…
November 17th, 2003 at 2:45 pm
Maybe the problem we don’t win more is that there is not enough black players…lol…I always heard Liverpool and Celtic were the favourites over there.
I’ve always heard that the Irish identified and empathised with American blacks’ plight here as they saw it as a similar type of struggle.
November 17th, 2003 at 3:29 pm
Ireland has a lot of Arsenal support, so the six-fingered banjo players your parents came across were full of blarney.
The civil unrest in Ireland came to the fore in Easter 1916. In July that year men from all parts of Ireland fought alongside each other and suffered the wars heaviest one day death toll on July 1st at the Battle of the Somme. You’re right about the black and tans though, funnily enough it was a name used by one of Arsenal’s firms in the 80s, mainly made up of local black lads. Sorry for the history lesson.
November 17th, 2003 at 3:48 pm
This is a very hard subject.
As an Irish from the East end of London I will say not all Irish people think like that. Some of these people lived in the rural areas and had no cure about other cultures compare to living in London/New York. Most of the time they hear negative news about london and paint all “Black” people as they see them
Time will tell but as it did in England and thing are changing.
November 18th, 2003 at 1:34 am
I’m a black Arsenal supporter and I think it would be almost retarded to be suprised by the racist comment. Racism is everywhere and especially in rural areas no matter where you go, only thing you can do is either leave or ignore their ignorance. I was under the impression alot of Irish didn’t like Americans too much, but shows what I know.
November 18th, 2003 at 9:48 am
The only comments about Americans I’ve ever heard from Irish people both here in the States and there was “I hate when those people from the States claim to be Irish when they were born in the US, their parents were born in the US, and they’re ancestors came over in the early 1800’s.” Difference is claiming to be “Irish” or claiming “Irish descent”…
November 18th, 2003 at 10:27 am
Black or White we all have prejudice in us. As a Black Brit I see racism everywhere even in Highbury.
Actions speaks better than words at times. Racism is a big disease but with education maybe one day people will learn to like each other.
People loved to hate others because of what they hear or read. I was called Anti-America cause I dont like Bush for what he stand for and Support Arsenal cause we all lots of French players in the team.
My Boss could not understand why like my team cause the French government did not go to war with us. I was shock but hey is real. The US media also made a big @@@ out of this calling countries names.
This bleed hate and hate turns to Racism
November 18th, 2003 at 5:24 pm
Good Point,
Action speaks better then words but Education is the key to this Issue.
So-called news presenters in this country today lacks the knowledge and skills the old people have.
ie listen to Fox News in the Morning “These people bascially peach hate - Today was about the french going to London to get Bush. Fiction had taken over fact and is a shame for a great country like America.
November 19th, 2003 at 12:04 pm
The Media is out of control here. The only way to sell the Neo Conversative ideas.
Some channels are very very right wing and as you mention filsl hate. Most of them got no cure about current affairs or cultures but get paid to promote the right wing ideas
November 19th, 2003 at 12:09 pm
I can only think of one channel that people label as right. Which is probalby Fox. What about NPR? Both parties have issues. I haven’t heard a good idea from any of the Democratic candidates other than Bush lied and I’ll get us out of Iraq. The right has its issues as well and have left their core issues as well. There are some good ideas from both parties but both are too influenced by special interests. You have to take each candidate on a case by case basis. To label one party as such and such is basically saying half the populace is wrong.
November 19th, 2003 at 12:59 pm
I cant see a news presenter in England ie BBC, SKY going on air telling the viewers all our problems is due to the french or Germany.
Even in the middle of the Northern Ireland issue when the IRA were plainting bombs the Brit did not have an Anti-Irish statement on tele or by presenters.
What I saw and heard on Fox news was a disgrace. A big joke. Freedom of speech in the hand of the KKK. Not all American agree with them and this is NOT how to teach the youngs one what is going on.Some learn from what they read and react to it.
Also to point out that I was not talking about any Party here.
November 20th, 2003 at 11:46 am
People call Fox News in America right wing and I disagree. Their news shows have people from opposit ideologies. Hannity & Colmes and Bil Reilly is not a conservative, he’s a populist perhaps and to be fair to him at least he has people on their to present the other side of the issue. That is what CNN, and the major networks did not do and why their ratings failed. I disagree with some of what O’Reilly and Hannity say, but how can they be labled as having a certain ideology when you have Geraldo Riviera and Alan Colmes on the network as well as Juan Williams. What the left is angry about is that their is a venue on television where conservatives can make a statements. Some wrote an article once about the ideology of the anchors of the major networks and they were all Democrats or left of center. Specifically what about Fox is ‘KKK’? Have they said anything racist about Blacks? I don’t know of any incident where France and Germany were blamed for America’s problems. France and Germany had financial interests in Iraq and that renders their opposition to us going in suspect. I didn’t like us going in but if it was a major country without any ties then I’d respect their opposition more. But the 3 most vocal opposing voices had substantial finanical interests. All parties had financial interest, U.S.A. included.
I enjoy Fox because they at least try to argue both sides. I wish the guests I agree with but disagree with O’Reilly or Hannity would get more time but at least they do and we can get both sides. Spoon feeding people one ideology is just as wrong.
November 20th, 2003 at 12:41 pm
As my old man said to me your actions speak louder than words. And as someone who lived in London when the IRA used to bombs England I said my Dad why dont we bomb them too.
The simple answer was it will not solve the problem and you dont fight fire with fight. Look at the world today.
And for your information AmericanGooner I am for peace and dont belongs to the right/left.
And if you want real presenters or conversative here is just a few that talk about facts and not fiction ie
CNN - Lou DOBBS, Aaron BROWN, Wolf BLITZER
CNBC/MSNNB- Brian WILLIAMS, Chris MATTHEWS, KUDLOW&CRAMER.
I guess you will also say 60 minutes, Meet the press, Face the nation are all left wings shows since they look for facts and answers.
Hey FOXNEWS is what it stands for and I dont expect you to agree with me. As T. Mcdonalds said on ITV news at 10 tell me and the nation what you mean but dont spin, cut and paste fiction withour facts here sir
November 20th, 2003 at 6:59 pm
True we lived in America and is about freedom of speech. That is why 30 Million people I heard Listen to Rush’s Show…Sad but the world today is a joke.
When are people going to realise that you dont have to called someone black to be racist. Action speaks LOUDER THAN words and that is what FOXNEWS is all about. Being black does not mean you can not be racist.
Thank God we dont have FOXNEWS is london. KNOWLEDGE AND COMMON SENSE is dead and we have some Jokers with no cure as Presenters.Watch CNBC or CNN in the morning and compare it to fox.
AmericaGooner you can agree or disagree.
November 20th, 2003 at 10:22 pm
The great thing about our respective countries is that we can debate and disagree without any (or not too much..lol)fear of reprisal. The Iraqi protests for and against occupation is great to see as they have finally been able to enjoy what we take for granted at times.
Regarding the above posts. Its our opinion what is right, left or center. If a news show agrees with your point of view most would say its ‘fair and balanced’ probably. Personally, I think ‘Meet The Press’ is the best of the lot. Russert asks both ideologies very hard questions. He shuns from no one. Rush Limbaugh is not part of Fox. He gives his opinion and he doesn’t hide his politics. I may not agree but he’s upfront about it. ALL the members of 60 minutes have been quoted at one point or another as being left of center. To their credit they have usually kept it out of their segments. The vast majority of journalists are Democrats, over 70% by some polls, closer to 80% in others and it has to skew how you report a story. Conversely I’d be just as worried if 70% were conservative. Fox debates both sides and so the uninformed are at least given something to consider. CNN is owned by Ted Turner (who is married to Jane Fonda) and I’m not sure if he didn’t shape the way news is reported there. Maybe not as much anymore as he’s less hands on.
The great thing about today is with the advent of cable, satellite tv and the internet we have an information explosion. So, one station or person does not have a monopoly on a certain point of view.
I still haven’t heard of specifics regarding Fox as racist or biased.