Ed. Note - When I wrote this (and posted it), Vieira was still a Gunner. As you read this that may or may not still be the case…
When Tony Adams retired from Arsenal the captaincy of the club went to Patrick Vieira. In several respects this made sense. As a central midfielder he has to take control of the game and links the forwards and back lines. Also, Patrick is a heck of a player who certainly has the respect of his teammates and other professionals. I?ve never been in the dressing room, but it?s also possible he?s a team leader there as well.
I?ve always felt that part of the reason he was made captain was to keep him at Arsenal.
Now as rumours again swirl about his future at the club he has chosen to remain silent. While I respect players for not running around, dragging things through the media, it?s different if you are the captain of the team. The captain should speak up quickly and decisively. That?s the role of the captain. While normally I?m not a fan of sports-war analogies, can you imagine if the troops were unsure if the major was planning on joining another army? How can a leader be a leader if he leaves his men wondering?
Personally, whether he stays or not I?d like to see Vieira removed as Captain. Even if he stays, he?s given us all - fans, management, teammates - the impression that playing for Arsenal is simply a job. If that?s how he feels, that?s fine. But if you want to be captain you have to show a bit more. Does anyone here question Thierry Henry?s love of Arsenal? How many times have you seen him fired up after a goal, jacking up himself, his teammates and the crowd? I never get the feeling it was ?just another goal? for Henry, it always seems that it?s personal with him. ?How dare you try to beat the Arsenal!? he seems to be saying.
Patrick Vieira is a great player, but he seems to lack the internal fire and outward passion that should be required to be the captain of Arsenal. At any point over the last eight years did you ever once think that Roy Keane would leave Man U? Surely he had offers. It?s just not even imaginable. He IS Man U. That?s what a captain is supposed to be about.
31 Responses to “Remove the armband from PV4”
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July 22nd, 2004 at 8:38 am
I feel you, Rick, but as of this morning we’re still waaaaaaay ahead of ourselves. I for one am still holding on to the faith that we all must have in our captain. Let’s not allow a few silly rumors, if that’s what they run out to be, have us lining up to lynch the man. I can hear bonuses being laughingly handed out at The Sun as I write this.
But I totally get the unsettling feeling you and all of us are suffering. In fact, last night I had a friend text me saying only this: “Vieira’s gone!!!”. I didn’t have a computer to check the story so all night I sulked and lost sleep, trying to figure out where I had missed the logic. How could this happen???
But as of this morning, as I wear my P38-W26-D12-L0 shirt in solidarity, I loaded up espn soccernet and find out that Ray has found a home. Still sad, but obviously my sources were a little off.
You know my point, and we’re all hanging by a miserable thread. My tack is to let Vieira finish up hitting on the honey’s in South Beach, pack his Champion’s gear, and head out to Austria. I’m sure a heartfelt, and full explanation is to follow.
Semper Fi, Gooners! And, UP THE GODDAMM ARSE!
July 22nd, 2004 at 9:16 am
I think we need to wait a day or two before passing judgement on Vieira. I would have loved to have heard something from him in the last few days but we don’t know what’s happening behind the scenes and maybe there’s a good reason for his silence. I must admit I fear the worse but still have a little bit of hope.
On another point I just want to say good luck to Ray Parlour at his new club. This guy was Arsenal to the core but I think that this is now a good move for both him and Arsenal. He’ll get regular first team football and it creates an opening for some of our young players.
July 22nd, 2004 at 9:21 am
Rick… TOTALLY disagree with you on this one.
What do we as supporters now about Patrick Viera “the captain”. He could be very vocal in the locker room… and I think he shows ALOT of passion on the pitch. He is ALWAYS in the thick of it out there. So much so… that alot of fans thought he needed to control his emotions better. Can’t really have it both ways.
Again, Viera was VERY recently on holiday in the States. Should he cut his vacation short?
If the stories are false… as they have been for the last 3 seasons running… why address them? Even if you issue a denial, like Wenger just did… the media still rolls on with the story.
If he WANTS to leave… what positive comes from him saying so in the media? It certainly wouldn’t help Arsenal’s bargaining position for him to say so!
I think he is an excellent captain, and a fantastic football player. His desire & determination personify this Arsenal team… and make him a throw-back type player. He’s not a finesse type… he’s blood and guts. Not sure what more you can want from the guy… again, thats just my personal view of the situation and PV4.
July 22nd, 2004 at 9:44 am
I think we’ve just signed Flamini. I turned on the radio to see if there was any news of Vieira - like did he get on the plane to Austria - and just caught the end of the Flamini item. I may have got it wrong, but if not, what’s he like? Anyone know
July 22nd, 2004 at 11:35 am
Flamini has been confirmed today.
The information I posted yesterday on BigSoccer as well as here in the comment sections of a few posts comes from a pretty reliable source. As I posted yesterday about Flamini the two others were the sale of PV4 and the purchase of Emerson from Roma. This all came directly from Slovenia where they are currently playing. Rick Breese phoned me all the way in California to let me know what was going on. I know that he’s one of about 25 people who have travelled with the team to the games and has been spending time with Arsenal folks. As much as I don’t want to believe it, I think that we will be getting the news soon.
PV4 has been great and I will hate to see him leave and as it still is only a rumour, I know that it’s going to come out soon.
July 22nd, 2004 at 12:07 pm
Sorry mate, but by posting something like you just did, all you’re saying is that you’re becoming paranoid by all the bullshit in the redtops.
Yes, we all feel the apprehension that you feel regarding the potential loss of our captain, but by now you should know better than to start jumping to conclusions…
Consider the following:
1. Perhaps Vieira’s silence is what the club want and ordered him to stay quiet until the time was right to issue a denial or confirmation. Depending on what’s happening behind the scenes, it might actually be to the club’s advantage.
2. When a player is on holiday, a player is on holiday. Perhaps the club orders players to stay on holiday until they get back from holiday - if you get me…
3. Up until the Barnet game, the club have been just as silent as Vieira - why should he shoulder all the blame for the silence? There’s nothing stopping the club from issuing a statement that they want the player to stay and should anyone want to buy him, they will listen to offers starting from ?40m…?
I feel the same way about the fans being the ones that suffer, but until something actually happens, let’s not start turning on our captain and each other. It’s been a relatively slow summer and the papers still need to generate sales, hence all the bullshit.
Keep the faith!
July 22nd, 2004 at 1:38 pm
Just wanted to share the latest from Rick B. in Slovenia. He just spoke with Arsene and asked if Vieira would be around this season and Arsene didn’t say anything but shook his head indicating no.
July 22nd, 2004 at 1:45 pm
Just wanted to correct what I said. When Rick asked Arsene if Vieira would be back this season Arsen shook his head and told him that he could tell him anything.
This message came in a text from Rick and the first one cuts off and as I put the two together, I realized he didn’t shake his head saying no, but that he couldn’t tell him.
Sorry for the last post.
July 22nd, 2004 at 2:41 pm
Agree 100 percent. If you want to squash rumors, you can squash them. If you want to flirt with other teams, you can flirt. Plain and simple.
Paddy welcomes the attention, that’s his choice, but it’s disruptive every single summer, and enough is enough.
It’s been a great 8 years, and that’s a helluva lot more than you can realistically expect from anyone in soccer these days. Thanks for the hard work, thanks for the memories, see you later.
Of course, *if* he stays, then it’s a lot trickier to take the armband away. Liverpool did it with Hyypia, and I don’t know how well that turned out.
July 22nd, 2004 at 3:49 pm
RICK I’M WITH YOU HERE ALL THE WAY.. PV4 HAVE LET LOTS OF THE FANS DOWN AND IF HE STAY OR GOES THERE WILL BE A HUGE QUESTION MARK.
TONY PLEASE COME BACK AND PROVE TO THESE KIDS WHAT IT MEANS TO BE THE CAPTAIN OF ARSENAL FC. CAPTAINS DONT BEHAVE LIKE THIS..
July 22nd, 2004 at 3:58 pm
Apparently there is a situation here.
Arsenal will release Vieira to Madrid IF AND ONLY IF Emerson join us
July 22nd, 2004 at 4:25 pm
You folks are KILLING me…
You should all be writing apologies to Patrick Viera if this story ends up being as false as the previous years stories were.
If he goes, it will be a HUGE blow for the Arsenal Football Club. Save your whinging about PV. He’s been immense for Arsenal… and a team leader. I can’t believe I’m reading all this negative non-sense about showing him the door…
July 22nd, 2004 at 4:42 pm
Stag, while i agree with part of your point, perhaps we, as fans, have been overreacted. But do understand the frustration we have been going through… and it’s not just this season, it’s three season in a row. We care about the club, that’s why we are frustrated. As i stated previously, the whole thing is very simple - whether he stays or not, please Paddy just take a minute and two to say a few simple words “I will stay” or “I will leave”.
I understand Paddy is enjoying his holiday, but I recall when Spurs new manager Santini accused Henry and Pires had a brust up when preparing Euro 2004 Finals, Henry was also having a holiday, and he did “bother” to make an effort coming out and clear the whole thing up. It’s not that difficult is it?
July 22nd, 2004 at 4:59 pm
Again, players are not robots.
They are NOT all the same. They all react differently to the same situation. Some are media savvy… some are not.
We don’t TRULY know what is going on … behind the scenes, in front of the scenes… whats true, whats a lie, whats media BS.
I think Patrick Viera is a CLASS ACT… and has given the Arsenal his heart and soul.
We don’t know what the story is… where PV is… or why he is or isn’t speaking. What if the club has asked him NOT to speak on this issue? Is that possible?
Then why would be blame the player?
Doesn’t make any sense at ALL to me to bash Viera.
July 22nd, 2004 at 11:41 pm
Just two comments (on my first ever post here)
1) Roy Keane DID flirt at one time with going abroad - I believe it was Real or Juventus in ‘98 or ‘99. He kept his club in the dark for about six months before finally putting pen to paper. It was regarded as one of Alex Ferguson’s (bastard) most pivotal moments as a manager, and I believe it preceded the season in which they won the treble. But at least Keane only did it once, he was near the end of his contract, and he didn’t pull some last minute stunt at the end of the summer off-season.
2) What was Arsenal’s brightest moment in 2004? For me, it was the 5-1 thrashing of Inter Milan at the San Siro. And we were missing a certain player on that day. Patrick Vieira. Don’t get me wrong, I am a huge admirer of PV4 (and believe both Pires and Henry should give their Footballer of the Year awards to him). But I think we’ll do just fine without him. One thing’s for sure, whenever such a sale does occur, Dein and Co. usually take their negotiating partners to the cleaners. If the money’s right and Emerson’s available, it will all work out. (My only fear is that Emerson has now cry-babied himself out of his past two clubs - let’s hope he doesn’t do it again.)
July 23rd, 2004 at 9:19 am
I’m with you, Stagg. Henry’s media challenges happened when he was public. There was an actual event going on. The media were everywhere and he needed to react to help his team in a very real situation. I’d like to think that Paddy sees settling the nerves of his fans in the off season while on vacation as part of his job, but this may all be part and parcel to a greater good. I’m reserving judgment and hoping for the best. ‘Tis all I can do.
And frankly, I’m getting used to it(though you wouldn’t know it by the way I cover my eyes when I log on to soccernet). I realize that it is a luxury for us to be tortured like this. He’s arguably the best midfielder in football. I don’t think ManU fans are having the same heart attacks over Nicky Butt.
In other news, it looks like AW is addressing our depth problems. Has anyone seen the list of players that took the field against Maribor? I had to make a key just to follow it!
July 23rd, 2004 at 9:30 am
I just want to respond basically so I can type “Thunderchicken”. Insane.
But seriously, I have to agree with your concerns about Emerson. I don’t see him as a Gunner. I can’t imagine Wenger does either. There’s no crying in AFC football. But if I’m wrong here, which is at least 50% the case lately, its probably a good thing for him that Parlour won’t be around. He’d torture the guy.
It also seems that Paddy’s summer flings have a lot to do with that meddling, cog in the wheel of a necessary evil called “the agent”. These guys come off like your best friend, and all they really want is more money for you so that they get more for them. They could give two s**ts about football, loyalty or arm bands. Football or cockfighting…as long as there’s money in it, they’re “fans”. I know that’s a sweeping generalization, but much of the sterotype about these guys and gals is true. First hand experience.
July 23rd, 2004 at 10:06 am
i agree. pv4 is a great player, but is not providing the off field stability that a captain should.
the armband should be given to th14 who has professed his love for the club and has publically rebutted approaches from other teams.
whatever happens we will survive very well without pv4. the club is greater than any player
July 23rd, 2004 at 11:34 am
What would make Henry a good captain?
Screaming at team-mates DURING matches because they didn’t feed him the ball where he wished it would be?
Yes, Whatever happens the club will survive… it would survive without Henry, Wenger, and Sol too… We aren’t trying to survive. We are trying to win the holy grail… the Champions League… and keep our hold on the league title.
Thats ALOT easier to do with Patrick!
He hasn’t actually done ANYTHING wrong…
and he is still an Arsenal player as of Friday July 23rd… so I’m still holding out hope.
July 23rd, 2004 at 11:52 am
Hello,
I am new to this board. How much of Vieira’s dominance is because of AW and what he is asked to do for Arsenal? I think he is a very good player(France did not play well without him), but I can’t think of a big time player who has left the club recently and had great success elsewhere( Anelka, Overmars, Petit). I think it was a good sign that last year we were able to win games without him, as opposed to previous years.
We need a more creative and attacking player to partner with him in midfield. Edu has improved, but I am not sure he is that player.
July 23rd, 2004 at 1:02 pm
Scott, the Henry incident i talked about was actually AFTER the France exit from Euro 2004 finals, he’s away on the holiday, and actually made an effort coming out to speak… perhaps stag is right, everyone is different…
July 23rd, 2004 at 3:11 pm
Could someone explain what happens if we don’t sign Emerson. Vieira hangs around here in a sulk?
Good news, I guess: the Trabelsi deal has gone through (according to Ajax, according to the radio).
July 23rd, 2004 at 3:12 pm
Hey all…just in case you aren’t yet sick of hearing someone’s opinion of the “rumor that refused to die”, here’s a link to yet another scathing account of the past few days. I bring it up due to the fact that it seems directly aimed at all of us and…er…Rick in particular.
http://www.theginge.com/news-2004-07-23.html
To the Ginge’s credit, I hope he’s right.
Hey Rick, I was going to have your back with this guy just out of sheer loyalty, but I decided against it. No sense beating up on him. It really is that bad. Besides, I have a feeling his article didn’t get 1,805 reads. But it might now…
July 23rd, 2004 at 3:14 pm
Faux pas: Meant to say, “It really ISN’T that bad”.
July 23rd, 2004 at 3:15 pm
Could someone explain what happens if we don’t sign Emerson or some equivalent replacement. Vieira has to stay but sits around in a sulk?
Good news, I guess: the Trabelsi deal has gone through (according to Ajax, according to the radio).
July 23rd, 2004 at 3:32 pm
Who says PV wants to leave? and currently WHERE is the PROOF. So if we don’t sign Emerson… who couldn’t carry Viera’s jock strap… and we get “stuck” with the best midfielder in the world… I think we’ll be just fine. Because if he stays, I really doubt he’ll be sulking. The man just PLAYS… doesn’t he?
July 23rd, 2004 at 3:39 pm
BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!
Scotty… thank you VERY VERY MUCH for that above webpage called “THE GINGE”…
He gives my EXACT sentiments to perfection.
Thank you Ginge… whomever you are…
because you are absolutely positively 100% correct. Paddy has done f*** all wrong.
The fans who are turning on him without ANY credible evidence are ridiculous.
July 23rd, 2004 at 8:22 pm
I’ve said this before. Check the results. Arsenal does not slump without PV. If he wants to go lets sell him and take the money. Juve prospered without Zidane, and went one better with Nevded. This constant speculation is disruptive. If Patrick wants to go, let him go. He’d do well to remember that players who leave Arsenal generally don’t propser.
July 23rd, 2004 at 9:01 pm
Bafflling. Arsenal don’t slump without Vieira?
So you are suggesting we are better without him?
Why not sell Henry and Campbell while we are at it. We had a great record before Campbell arrived, and before Henry came… we won the double.
???
I am perplexed by the comments of the Arsenal fans on this site.
No respect at all for what PV has done for this team and just how GREAT a player he is.
If he goes… you will soon see how valuable he is.
July 24th, 2004 at 1:28 am
Neither Sol nor Henry have been injured for a prolonged period, so we don’t know. PV has and we have never slumped. Also it’s Pat that is constantly the subject of speculation. What we are saying is that IF he wants to go - LETS SELL HIM AND GET IT OVER WITH!!
July 24th, 2004 at 9:51 am
Duh. I feel so stupid. In fact, we should all be embarrassed about how worked up we got.
http://www.internationalmegastar.com/viera/