1. I feel there has been too much emphasis on the role of Rio Ferdinand. Last season, whenever you heard people talking about the reasons of Man Utd’s failure, the word “Rio” was always mentioned. Ironically, I don’t believe there ever was a time Rio had been valued so high as when he was serving the ban. The bottom line is - if Man Utd really relies on one single player THAT much, they are in bigger trouble…
2. Alan Smith is not the answer. One thing I hear often from the “experts” is - Smith has great potential, and if he gets a run as an out-and-out striker he would shine… That’s the reason he didn’t score too many goals for Leeds - he had to play in the midfield from time to time… My question is - “really??” In my opinion, the reason Smith had to play in the midfield was simply because he didn’t score enough goals. Imagine had he been able to score 20+ goals per season, do you think O’Leary would put him in midfield? As a striker, he’s neither quick enough nor skillful enough, nor does he possess a poacher’s instinct as Van Nistelrooy. I honestly can’t see how he’s able to link up with Van Nistelrooy. No doubt he’s strong and hard-working, but is Emile Heskey…
3. I remember Arsene Wenger once said Barthez would make an immediate impact with Man U on his first season, but his weaknesses would get exposed comes the second season… and things turned out exactly as Wenger predicted. I’m afraid the same can apply on Tim Howard. No doubt he’s got potential. But he’s rather inexperienced, and does not possess the confidence to be a starting keeper at a top club. I have a strong feeling his weaknesses will get exposed as season rolls on.
4. They are still heavily reliant on Roy Keane. And Keane’s to the best only 80% of his former-self. Enough said.
Judging on their opening match against Chelsea, the current Man Utd side looked very ordinary. I still believe this Man Utd side is capable of rising to occassions and beating the tough opponents, but would they be able to kill off the weaker opponents week in and week out? Perhaps Man U fans would argue once they have their full team back they could conquer again. Maybe.
26 Responses to “4 overlooked issues about Man Utd”
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August 19th, 2004 at 8:02 am
Who cares? I don’t
August 19th, 2004 at 8:36 am
too right Kel, all The Arsenal have to do is the very best that a remarkable team can do. All the rest is pub chatter
August 19th, 2004 at 8:42 am
I thought this was an Arsenal site. Why is it being high-jacked by Man.U moaners? Who cares where their problems lie.
August 19th, 2004 at 8:56 am
Thanks for the laugh. This is the funniest site I’ve seen in ages. Please keep your “analysis” coming!
August 19th, 2004 at 9:17 am
Yeah, I did have some misgivings about posting this submission. I agree that the focus of the site should be Arsenal. However an occasional post about an arch-rival who I think even its fans would admit are in a bit of a transition seemed ok. I’d love to see more submissions on Arsenal that feature original thoughts, but it’s not like we’re being flooded with them.
I do find it amusing that a supporter of another club would not only come to this site, but take the time to register just to post a one line comment that adds nothing to the discussion.
August 19th, 2004 at 9:32 am
Sorry Rick, i didn’t expect this post would be drawing such a negative response, even from our very own Gooners…
I must confess I do pay attention on how Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool the likes doing in the league, at least apart from Arsenal matches, the first thing I would check after each week’s fixture was their result. Perhaps others do not…
August 19th, 2004 at 9:49 am
Too much is being made of your post, Andez, in my opinion. Its just pissy and silly. To me, anyone who loves the game and supports a club has plenty of reasons to invest an interest in their rivals and post it here. There just wasn’t any real reason to be negative about it. For me, if I’m not interested particularly in a post, I let it pass and wait for something else. Not difficult.
As for Moaners registering on the site, I say “welcome”. Its never too late to switch. And I’m sure, in time, some of us will even find it in our hearts to forgive you for your previous, foolhardy allegiances.
Cripes.
August 19th, 2004 at 9:57 am
Thanks Scotty. Same as u, i let it pass if a particular topic not interested me. And i got no problem debating or discussing issues with fellow football fans, as long as there are points being made. The thing i hate most is one-liner insult, especially when it’s coming from fellow Gooners.
August 19th, 2004 at 10:14 am
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the post. You can’t write about Arsenal 365 days a year and Utd could still turn out to be our closest threat.
I agree about Smith, he doesn’t have a strikers instinct. Ferguson has problems and will have to spend a lot of money to solve them, which is always difficult when you have shareholders to please.
Thieir biggest problem is Paul Scholes. If you play him up front with Van Nistelrooy then Saha & Smith will be fed up sitting on the bench and you won’t get the best out of them. Scholes is also prone to long lapses without scoring. If you move Scholes back into midfield then you have a midfield problem, because Scholes doesn’t tackle, neither does Ronaldo or Giggs. This leaves Keane to do all the donkey work and as we all know, he’s too old. But Fergie likes Scholes, even though he’s too stupid to realise that persisiting with him buggers up his entire team.
August 19th, 2004 at 10:33 am
Surely any true fan of a football team would be interested in their closet rivals downfall or fans opinions of it. I find it interesting what people think about united, and im sure if there was a role reversal their fans would also be talking about it.
Think of it in a business light, if your closest competitor starts to falter, wouldn’t you like to asses why and in the process realise your own strong points/weaknesses?
Keep it up Andez!
August 19th, 2004 at 10:42 am
There is also another reason i wrote this post. I have read an article previously from a Man U site, and they were doing the same thing as me - by ANALYSISING our prospect without Vieira… I quoted it below, then perhaps ppl can understand why I want to have a go on them myself! Ok, here below is the article:
(it was written by a Man U fan on a Man U site when he thought Paddy was leaving…):
So Patrick Vieira is finally about to leave Camelot and move to Real Madrid. While it may not have happened today, it will next week - how we weep for the Gooners in their hour of need. Rant received 53 comments and more than double that amount in abusive emails from Gooners after we dared to suggest that it might be better for Vieira to move to United, rather Real Madrid’s house of cards. Who ever said Londoners don’t have a sense of humour … well us actually. So here’s giving you the finger kids!
Vieira is undoubtedly one of the great midfielders in the world right now, although he has never reached the heights of Roy Keane in his pomp. His loss to Arsenal is huge (about 40% of their team according to Claude Makalele) and there must now be a question mark over whether the London club can keep hold of Henry, Pires, Campbell et al, now that their captain has left. ?450m in debt and their captain gone - the power has truly shifted to Arsenal!
Perhaps Wenger will find another rough diamond and polish him into a world class performer as he is so famed for doing. Like ?9m Francis Jeffers - ok well apart from him. Or club record signing ?13.5m Sylvain Wiltord - well no, not him either. Surely ?8m Gio van Bronkhorst - no definitely not him! Stathis Tavlaridis, Igor Stepanovs, Rami Shaaban? No not them either! Or perhaps Wenger will now bugger off before the going gets tough. It was nice knowing you Arsene!
*update*
Real Madrid are now claiming talks have broken down - their usual eleventh hour tactic to lower the price. Arsenal apparently want ?23m, Madrid are offering just ?18m. So what will it be Arsene - keep a player who doesn’t want to play for your club anymore, or take about 50% of his true value? This really does keep getting better!
August 19th, 2004 at 10:53 am
thanks!
August 19th, 2004 at 12:25 pm
Andz sorry if you regarded my comment as an insult it was not meant to come across that why. It?s just that their is so much written about Man.U weather they are doing well or bad I just want to get away from it sometimes and just read and talk about my team. It?s just that your piece came across as if it was trying to sort out their problems.
August 19th, 2004 at 12:27 pm
Ohh wait until the end of the season, im tempted to run riot on their rant page!
August 19th, 2004 at 12:49 pm
Kinda makes your blood boil a bit until you realize that we all do the same thing?sometimes not as articulatively. Sure hammers home the idea that Vieira staying was at least a victory in the sense that it moots posts like this one.
I won’t even get into some truck-sized holes in his argument, though he does have a few points that could have been made had he not gone for the throat and to the extreme on every issue. A good lesson for the pub, here.
I enjoy hitting the other sites, too, Andez. Gives one a clearer perspective if one can shuck blind allegiance in their search for the truth. Very much like the political banter that graced this page a few posts ago, supporting one’s belief with overly succint, black and white ideals often crumbles in on itself.
I love The Arsenal like everyone else here (except for the members who support other clubs…WTF?) and especially like when a post challenges their moves, players, and decisions. Regardless of the low blows made to Wenger, and in light of the excellent point made about Scholes in another comment, I consider our manager one of the best simply because he approaches the game with both eyes open. He’s not afraid to make a controversial decision if he thinks it helps the club in the long run. That honesty has and will serve The Arsenal well.
This gives me an idea…
August 19th, 2004 at 1:14 pm
Andez… GOOD POST.
While I don’t agree with the demise of United…
I enjoy the post… and debating our biggest rivals.
One player at the back CAN make a big difference.
Prior to Rio’s suspension, there defense played a hell of alot better. That cannot be debated. He will help their back 4 and Howard alot.
I think very highly of Alan Smith. I think he is an excellent player, and would have loved to have seen him come to Arsenal. Great work ethic… tough… and I think he will do very well at United.
Playing next to RVN will not hurt his game much either… if Saha comes back, perhaps he will play more in the midfield role. He is DEFINITELY a plus for their team.
Tim Howard.
Well… being an American, maybe I am a slight bit biased… but I think he is VERY GOOD. I actually hope he is the United #1 for a while… as its a big plus to see US players succeed in the EPL. The only thing that could “expose” him… is bad defending. He is very skilled… very athletic.
Roy Keane.
Well… 80% of THE ROY KEANE is still far better than what 80% of the Premiership has. If Keane steps up in the BIG matches against Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool etc… that would be big for them.
and… from what I saw in the Chelsea v United match… CHELSEA should be worried, not United.
They outplayed them… had far more attack in the 2nd half… and deserved a draw at the least.
(WITHOUT RVN, SAHA, OLE, RIO, RONALDO)
If Chelsea shows up playing that level of football against the Arsenal… we’ll embarrass them.
As you can tell… I am certainly NOT convinced of the demise of MAN United. They have alot of talented players and one of the best coaches… and a very large pocket filled with cash. This team is not to be taken lightly… I’d say they finish 2nd or 3rd at worst.
August 19th, 2004 at 2:53 pm
it’s alright man! i guess i also overreacted a bit
August 19th, 2004 at 4:29 pm
I am not dismissing them as readily as some. By November they will be at full strength for a few weeks with Rio, RVN, Ronaldo and Heinze in the squad. By all accounts they did not play great the first half of the season last term and they still ended up with the most points ever by a PL side after the first 19 games and were in 1st place.
I think we need to put as much distance between them and us by the time all their missing players come back and essentially make this a 2 club race. The last thing we need is to try to match results with 2 clubs come January while still having to compete in the FA cup and CL. If we can be 6 or more points up on Man Utd by October, a tall order perhaps (we’re halfway there), then it will help us immensely. They’ll be under pressure each week to get results.
Even with everyone back, they still lack creativity in the center of the pitch. Also, Giggs is spending more time away injured and it will get worse as the season goes on.
August 19th, 2004 at 5:16 pm
ManYoo - long may they keep failing.
I tis funny cause it is alwasy the ManYoo fans saying Arsenal are a one man team without Vieira, Pires, Cole, Campbell, Henry, Bergkamp, Edu, Ljungberg, Toure, Lauren
yet…their first compaint is NOT HAVING ONE MAN NAMED DRUGGO - I mean Rio
August 19th, 2004 at 7:07 pm
Andez, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with your post! I liked it, thought it was interesting - and I agree about Smith. He looked poor to me in last night’s international as well. Oh, but wasn’t Shaun Wright- Phillips a star. Thank god he’s not going to Spurs.
August 19th, 2004 at 8:46 pm
> Or club record signing ?13.5m Sylvain Wiltord
That scored against Man Utd the day we won the 2002 Title?
Naw, couldn’t be.
ManYoo freaks, what can you say about ‘em that isn’t already scribbled on bathroom stalls.
— Geoff
August 19th, 2004 at 8:51 pm
Regarding Alan Smith, he’s a hopped up crybaby who came into the public eye because he somehow became the Poster Boy for Putting On A Brave Face When You Know Your Club Is Going Down Hard.
He’s so loyal to Leeds that he…signs to Man Utd. Because…he’s a Premiership player. Oh, wait, that’s right, 8 goals in how many appearances for Leeds?
Smith is this transfer period’s Fergie-Flavor. We’ll see who the next darling is soon enough.
— Geoff
August 20th, 2004 at 1:31 am
Well if you could dig up my posts from last year, you would find I was speaking their demise then, and nothing happened during the summer that would change that impression. Let’s expand on this solidarity concept, because there is some lovely ripe fruit there. The season is 2002/2003. I remember it as clearly as if it were yesterday. I watched Manchester United play each week, and I watched Arsenal play each week - and even with Arsenal building a solid lead in the tables I knew Man U would win the league before we left the month of January. You could see it in the way that Manchester players were *genuinely* excited for each other whenever they were successful. Cut to Arsenal and you saw emotionless, *professional* displays. They looked like they were too tired to care. It ate at my gut, but I knew we’d lose eventually even as we racked up points.
Now cut to 2003/2004. Now it was Arsenal’s turn to feel the good vibrations - and what a difference!!! That memory is so vivid in my brain now, that I get butterflys every time I see Thierry blow a teammate off the way he did with Reyes. If Reyes weren’t a good natured kid, that could have bought some trouble. Say what you like, but chemistry is both very fragile, and very important.
The real problem that Man U faced, even in 2002/2003 when they won the title - and still face today, is that much of their strength lies in their reputation. They possess, and have possessed, some real superstars, but they haven’t been as strong as Arsenal *across the board* since 2001/2002. What they had instead was amazing team chemistry, very solid fundamental play, and plain old intimidation. You need to look no further then the erstwhile David Beckham to see this in action. Week after week I watched as *nobody* challenged Beckham for the fear factor alone - only to watch him scorch team after team with clean, unblocked crosses into RVN. I almost got sick watching it. I give Beckham his due, but he wouldn’t have scored *half* as many goals turning an agressive defender as Man U did from his crosses. Whenever you can get teams intimidated enough to set back on their heels and not challenge your passes, you’ve already won the game - and Man U was exceptional at this. There is a weakness though…
When the bubble finally bursts on your charade, and teams discover they can actually challenge you just like everyone else, you can become considerably weaker *seemingly* overnight. Remember what I said about overall strength? Manchester United’s bubble has truly burst - for a variety of reasons; i.e. Beckham leaving, his natural replacement Soleschar getting injured, Rio getting suspended - and overnight they discovered that in amongst their superstars were far too many sub-par players to walk the title-dog. Manchester United is a highly beatable team these days, and they are beatable now because teams *know* they’re beatable. And all those teams with a little cowardly egg on their face want payback, and some of them will get it. I can think of 6 or 7 names right off the top of my head that have no business playing for a Man U team that wants to contend. Losers is the correct term I think. Man U is dead - and they will stay dead until they fire the dead wood, and send Sir Alex packing, because like most old men who have succeeded in a certain way for so long - he simply can’t see the weakness in his squad. He’s too invested in it. He won’t fix it.
I fear only Chelsea. I think an extremely good point was made when someone suggested that we don’t do well when teams play us too defensively. I couldn’t agree more. There is a relatively simple solution though - although it requires great patience. Pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, and repeat. The good news is that we are already good at this, but we need to play this game on their end of the pitch until we lose it. We let them break with it a little, and then we counterattack. Four, five, or even six counterattacks like that should net us a goal or two, and in very close defensive games, that’s all you need. We just get too impatient and try to force the ball. That just leads to more impatience, and its a vicious circle.
For the record, I love how everybody is now much more positive about the team now that Viera decided to stay - *in spite of the fact that we’ve looked very, very good without him*!!! It’s almost like people wanted the Viera insurance policy in order to be allowed to feel good about our existing team. It’s all academic now, but I will always believe that even if PV4 had left we would still have done the business. No disrespect intended.
August 20th, 2004 at 9:29 am
To Miranda - Oh yeah, Shaun Wright Phillips! That kid got talent! At his age, his dad Ian hadn’t even started his professional career! I would love to see him on the Arsenal colour! Though Ian isn’t exactly his dad (his step dad), still there is an Arsenal connection there!
To Geoff - U spoken out what exactly on my mind! I remember ppl once compared him to Shearer after Smith scored his first England goal… Smith = Shearer??? That’s an insult to arguably one of England’s best central forward ever.
August 20th, 2004 at 9:30 am
FEAR FACTOR. Spot on man!
August 23rd, 2004 at 5:31 pm
i do remember seeing thierry brush off reyes, to be honest i was gobsmacked that he had done that and you could see that reyes was a bit embarrassed BUT after the replay of thierry’s goal he did hug reyes again and then i felt better. and remember when he hugged and kissed reyes after he scored the penalty agianst leeds(5-0 win). i think thierry does things without realising them especially when it comes to his teammates and i think they are blown out of proportion because people expect thierry to be perfect. especially because arsenal have this great team spirit that they tlk about so much, it is as though no one especially henry is allowed to have arguements with anyother player. look at the lauren and pires incident. mind you i bet other players in the team argue but when it comes to henry it is a big issue. at the end of the day players need to have disagreements in order to improve the environment and their performances because if every one is all lovey dovey and keep things to them selves then the players will become fustrated and end up playing like man utd do. i.e the way roy keane seems to shout at his team mates all the time as if he plays brilliantly him self.