Ed. Note - At Arsenal America we pride ourselves on allowing members to have their say. It’s one of the things that sets us apart. I hope we can all respect each other even if we disagree. That being said, Andez has some thoughts about T. Henry…
I’m getting more and more frustrated watching Thierry Henry play lately. Thierry is one of my favourite current Arsenal players, I love watching his breath-taking skills, and love the joyful, bubbling side of his character. Nevertheless, his workrate has been awful.
So often, I saw we have 9 players bar the ‘keeper on the pitch full of running, yet with one player being stationary - Henry. I understand Henry’s game is based on explosiveness, that he needs to reserve the energy waiting for a moment’s burst of power to break through the opponents’ defence. Yet, with Cole, Reyes, Pires, Ljungberg charging forward, the least Thierry could do is to run into space, pull away his markers, and to create space for his teammates. Instead he is standing still [often on top of the penalty area]. How much would that would help on our attacking play? And the biggest issue here is - imagine if we were Henry’s teammates, how that would make you feel when you run your socks off for the team’s cause, yet your team’s main man just stands there and watches?
And so often when our attacking play broke down, we lost the ball, whereas the likes of Reyes, Ljungberg, Bergkamp and Pires would immediately try to chase the loose ball and win the ball back, Henry often just stood there doing nothing but expressing his frustration [on losing the possessions]. I don’t expect Henry to chase the loose ball everytime, but sometimes when the ball was so near to him, I would hope our star striker to concentrate on winning the ball back rather than wasting time angry at himself or his teammates. Arsene always points out the significance of defending from the front - ‘cos even when our forwards couldn’t win the ball back, by closing down the oppositions, it would increase the chance of a mispass from the opponents and prevent our defence being exposed from a quick counter attack. To achieve that, you need 10 outfield players working hard together, afterall, “Team Spirit” is not just a slogan.
To be fair with Henry, he would do a bit of chasing back, space running once for a while, but it’s not consistent enough. Perhaps I’m asking too much, after all we are still the leader of the Premiership, and still yet been beaten this season. But with the current squad’s talent and quality, I’m aiming high for us to become a truely great team. And if we want to become a GREAT team, we need to try our BEST in every single game. I know some may argue the players aren’t machines, I agree with that. But there is a different between tireness and lack of effort. If we allow ourselves to have that occassional “off days”, that’s fine too, but we can forget about being a GREAT side.
So far, I am happy with all the players’ commitment, with the exception of Thierry. Being our most talented player, Thierry has got to understand should he work a little bit harder, it would inspire his teammates around him and perhaps push them into a higher level, afterall that’s what being a GREAT player is all about - making the players around him better [see Michael Jordan of NBA, Diego Maradona]. Should Henry be able to do that, then I really can’t see how other teams are able to stop us.
19 Responses to “Thierry + a little bit more workrate = A Great Arsenal Side”
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September 30th, 2004 at 8:27 am
Andez…
You know I am going to have to defend Henry… right? Obviously, people going to the matches will have quite a different perspective than those of us watching on TV… the camera is only on the ball.
Henry leads the league in goals. I think he leads in assists too!(if not, he’s close)… He plays in every almost every game, rarely gets subbed… and we all realize he is THE most vital cog in the offensive part of the Arsenal machine.
I think he gives a pretty good account of himself, game in and game out… and while he does coast from time to time during a match, what striker doesn’t?
The fact that Henry sets up so many goals… says that he DOES make the players around him better.
He can’t score every goal, nor score in every match, or run around like a chicken with its head cut off… as a striker extraordinaire’, you have to pick your spots and moments to pounce. I don’t think your assessment of TH14 was 100% fair…
and you might have a point to some degree… I agree that we are all entitled to our opinions.
And the important thing, as you said…. is that we are undefeated still…
September 30th, 2004 at 8:49 am
For me, Henry is one of those superstars that a supporter has the luxury to be frustrated with.
There is NO DOUBT that he dogs it from time to time. One game he will be able to dictate the offensive pace and style, and he will have a glorious game. On other days, he will be forced to allow play to be focused on other players and attacks, and feels like he can’t do his thing. When the world revolves around him, he racks up goals and assists in seconds and AFC generally do well and light up the field. But if he looks about and realizes that his ideas, runs and battles will only be muted by the efforts of others, he sulks a bit. This is not always true, but there is pattern I believe.
I’ve seen on more than one occasion lately a near collision between he and Reyes, or a situation where they both want to strike the same ball. There’s perhaps some strife of dominion there. Wenger calls Reyes his “revelation” and his “Rooney”. He wants him to grow into a great player for The Arsenal, which means Henry has to share space. I don’t think its a case of him not wanting to, but more of a matter of communcation and timing. Which brings me to another point…
…overcautious play. Its been talked about before, and I think its starting to seep in to the level where we’re dropping points. No one wants to make a mistake, or upset our “one for all attitude”. We need some grrrr, and that might just cause some waves in the locker room and training ground. But if we’re going to be satisfied with holding a 1 goal lead, we’re going to lose our mojo.
Something like 21 goals in 6 games is now something like 5 in 4. I know we’re playing tougher competition and learning how to grind out results (3 conceded in 4 is a little better), but we’ve had the chances, and as its been proven in the past, the net HATES a tentative foot.
We’re able to gracefully get the horse to water, but we have to be a little grittier to make him drink.
September 30th, 2004 at 11:03 am
And when did the fluidity disappear and goals become 5 in 4? With the return of Viera. Obviously he’s needing games to regain his sharpness, but isn’t that conclusion unavoidable? Some of our most famous high scoring victories have come without him in the team, and sometimes I wonder if we lose too much in attack for what we gain in defense.
Still think Wenger should rotate. WE have the talent to do so. Season is a marathon, not a sprint. ManU is doing so quite well ? see how well they won, this week - and so is Chelsea. That doesn’t bode well for us. Staleness creeps in and players take their place for granted. Sometimes could use some youngsters with something to prove. Lack of rotation also means we’ll have very poor quality fringe players. How long do you expect classy players like Pennant, Cesc, Bentley, Clichy or Van Persie to put up with an interminable life on the bench through their best years?
September 30th, 2004 at 12:49 pm
I was actually wondering if, in CL play, experience can work against a team. It certainly can psychologically. The idea of injecting a young, green squad into this inflated sense of purpose called the CL…maybe Arsenal would see a little glee and gumption out there. But its a tough call for Wenger, I’m sure.
The truth is, in par with what you’re saying, we haven’t played to our offensive potential since Fulham. I agree, our whole tack has apparently shifted to our defensive deficiencies, which we’ve addressed fairly well. But its all so calculated now, that we’re constantly squandering chances trying for the perfect ball and pass all the time. It happened last season, as well. Its a beautiful style of football, but sometimes you gotta just have at it, right?
I know some of us must be wondering if Rooney and Co. would have wiped the floor with Rosenborg. Let’s face it…worry is setting in. But it needn’t if we can find a way to stay hungry when we smell blood.
September 30th, 2004 at 1:06 pm
please andez henry is brilliant in every match. did u see his work rate against middlesborough and rosenberg. cummon andez i expect better from u.
September 30th, 2004 at 1:06 pm
okay… let me reiterate the hypocrisy that sometimes infiltrates this site!
We actually had debates here on Arsenal America about our defense being “poor”… and how wonderful Chelsea was with winning 1-0 every week. Yes, we were winning 4-1… but the defense was so damned shaky.
Now we win 1-0… we concentrate on the defense… and OH OH… we are in trouble… the offense has lost its midas touch… and its VIEIRA’s fault?!!!!!!! Are you freaking kidding me???!!!
Yes, let’s rotate the best midfielder in the world with a 17 yr.old kid…. ????!!!!!!!!
All the while, we have NOT LOST A MATCH.
All the while, we are TOP of the LEAGUE and TOP of OUR CL GROUP.
Perhaps we should be playing a youthful team in the Champion’s League?? Huh? That goes against all common sense… you’ll never see Wenger take that tact, until we have ADVANCED to the next round.
The sky is not falling. Chelsea… yes, they are wonderful, aren’t they. We should be more like them?! whats that? They are BEHIND us in the league… oh… right.
United won 6-2… they are brillliant!
whats that? they are 5th in the league and behind us by 7pts. after 7 matches!!!
I simply cannot wait for us to play Chelsea.
But please, save all the worry until there is actually something to worry about.
September 30th, 2004 at 1:54 pm
Actually I’m talking about Henry’s “work rate”. There is no doubt of his talent, his unselfishness. But I really wish he could push himself into a higher level, someone like Michael Jordan in NBA. MJ was arguably the most talented basketball player EVER, but one overlooked fact was he worked hard EVERY GAME, both offensively and defensively.
I guess i’m also spoiled by watching Ian Wright over years. Why till today Wrighty is still one of Arsenal fans’ all time favourites? Not only because he scored goals, he worked hard every game, closing down the opponents. Same applies on Paddy. Ok, some may still feel he’s unloyal to us, but as far as I’m concerned, he sweat like hell every game, covering every corner of the pitch. And big Tone, had him still around, I’m pretty sure he would break into the oppositions’ penalty area running all the way from the back, showing his teammates the way how to get the job done - as Tony always said “doing it the Arsenal way”, and that means work your as* off until the final whistle.
September 30th, 2004 at 2:14 pm
Thierry does sometimes look lazy, vain, sulky, etc. This has been so for years, and we all start carping about it. Then he returns to his briliant self and we love him again and talk about having the best striker in the world. It happens! Trouble is, Reyes is also off form at the moment so we didn’t play especially well. So long as it’s only the group stage I’m not that worried about it. (But that’s not to say I’d say no to buying that seventeen-year-old Bulgarian at Lecce. Now top scorer in Serie A! Wouldn’t it be nice to have him as an option in Jan?)
September 30th, 2004 at 2:56 pm
Stag, unbeaten records don’t win trophies. Nobody prays for defeat, but it’s going to come one day.
Vieira may or may not be the best in the world, that’s besides the point. That Arsenal performed better without him is. It’s a simple observation. He’s below his best and you’re not denying that.
You don’t wait for problems to develop. You always try to make a good team better. That’s why Wenger signed Reyes, and why Fergie signed Rooney. If you think the same thirteen or so players can take us from now to May, you obviously haven’t learned the lessons of last season. And I still hold to my contention that Lehmann while very good, has the potential to cost us trophies. I was right about it last CL wasn’t I? Loyalty to players is good and fine, but they come and go. You do what’s best for the team.
September 30th, 2004 at 4:19 pm
I rather Henry take it easy during the game once a while to conserve his energy for the crucial moments in the game than to run around and chase the ball like a mad man (aka ManU’s Alan Smith). Henry is what I like to describe as a finesse player with that streak of lightning speed which comes on whenever required. His strength is better served elsewhere as his assists and goals will testify.
In anycase, Henry does his share of defending during set pieces and when the opponent is in Arsenal’s half.
Please leave the mastro alone to perform his miracle for the team.
September 30th, 2004 at 4:31 pm
Ummm…. we were unbeaten last season in the league… I am pretty sure we got a big trophy for that… didn’t we?
The defeat is going to come some day… oh well, then this site will really be going crazy… heaven forbid if we actually LOST a match!
I really and truly doubt that Arsenal performed BETTER without Vieira BECAUSE he was not playing. Obviously, there are a number of factors.
Why aren’t you saying that we should keep Cygan in the line-up…. we played better with Cygan that with Sol!? right?
He is not very far below his best… and Cesc is no where NEAR the player Vieira is. He’s a nice player and at 17, he should be a great one. He is NOT yet.
You don’t start Cesc over Vieira. Period.
I am ALL for the younger players PLAYING more often. Cesc, Pennant, VanPersie, Clichy, even Sendoros or Hoyte(injured). I’d LOVE to see them play v. Charlton on Saturday… I’d love to see them get more action in League games and even the FA Cup early rounds… AW makes those decisions, and he “knows” whats best. and… Loyalty to the players is VERY IMPORTANT… thats why they run thru a wall for the Arsenal and AW.
Lehmann… who is a better option? If Wenger wanted someone else, he would get someone else.
He is among the best in the world.
September 30th, 2004 at 5:02 pm
was this ‘blame game’ due to yesterday’s debacle v rosenborg?
if you want someone to blame, blame the player who said he is fully comitted to arsenal forever. you know…the one wearing our captain’s armband.
he was pathetic AGAIN. no ball movement at all. Every pass he tried was a mircale through ball and none of it worked, yet he kept trying.
he provided nothing but a body to go around. that was it.
September 30th, 2004 at 5:24 pm
Absolute Rubbish.
I doubt we drew with Rosenborg because of Vieira’s play… maybe if the forwards finished a few of their chances when we were up 1-0… we would have coasted to victory.
September 30th, 2004 at 10:40 pm
I think our drop of performance lately have nothing to do with Vieira. Maybe partly it was down to the fact that we are playing essentially better teams lately (even the troubled Man City was playing their best football against us).
Our next opponents are even tougher. I believe we need the fully fit Vieira in the squad, especially with Gilberto injured. It’s true he’s not at his best currently. But we got to bear with that. Let him play so that he can regain his form. I can’t imagine us playing the revived ManU later on with Cesc and Edu in the middle of the park. Cesc is not there yet and as for Edu, he is poor defensively. When we play Edu, we need a Vieira to compensate for the defense.
And regarding Henry, I agree with Andez to certain degree. Yes, Henry has been a bit lazy lately. But he’s playing 90 mins almost every match. So, maybe we can also bear with that as long as he give his best in crucial matches.
In the Rosenborg game, it’s not Henry that frustated me the most. It’s the whole team’s attitude, the mentality. Maybe we are too afraid of giving away points like we often did in the past CL campaign. Maybe we grew to believe that we begin to master the art of playing 1-0 games just because we won 1-0 at PSV and ManCity, both being very tough games. But that’s a big mistake. We are always an attacking team. To put it bluntly, Wenger is not GG or Mourinho. His team can never play like theirs. We got to attack.
September 30th, 2004 at 10:53 pm
Now I know where that Anonymous thing on my posting come from. It must be the session. And I’d like to apologize to fellow American here who was criticized by another Anonymous for using poor English because of my posting in the Polling message board. Yes, the posting he targeted was mine. So, pardon my English.
And just to make it clear, Mr. Anonymous (I hope you read this). Rick was right. I am not an American, I am an Asian. And yes, I did not come from an English-speaking country. So your attack on the Americans was well off target.
And if you question how an Asian can contribute to an English club, you just have to do some fact-finding on ManU’s Asian fan base. If you don’t like gooners who can’t speak English, you can ask arsenal.com to bring down their Chinese version website for a start.
Anyway Rick and others, thank you for defending me back there.I really appreciate that.
September 30th, 2004 at 10:54 pm
Well first off, congratulations for getting people into a passionate debate Andez. It has been a little boring around here lately to be honest.
First impressions:
Stag, you have got to relax. Seriously. We all love the Arsenal, but you seem to think that means never saying a word against them and defending them against all perceived insults. I would like to get a little philosophical here, because I think it applies. I think you see the negative things (or even the potentially negative things), and see people who don’t truly appreciate the Arsenal or its past and continuing accomplishments. You see people who don’t have the proper respect for the players - for the team. You see people looking for the cloud in the silver lining instead taking the time to truly appreciate the luster and brilliance of that silver lining. I admit that’s one way to look at it - but let’s apply the analogy to the good old U.S. of A. Is the United States the world’s sole remaining super power? Do we have more money and military power than anyone else? Do we do more charitable giving and support more humanitarian causes than any other country in the world? The answer is yes to all these questions. Does the United States ever make mistakes. Has the United States ever conducted secret medical experiments on its own population? Have we ever recruited allies and then abandoned them when the going got tough? The answer to all these questions is yes. Should we ignore the bad things because there are good things? Is that healthy? I say all of these things as a true patriot. I say these things as a man who served in the United States Navy. I say these things as a man who *would* have launched nuclear weapons against our enemies if I had been ordered to do so. I *LOVE* the United States of America with my whole heart and soul - but I *WILL NOT* ignore its mistakes. I had to go on a journey that lasted more than half my life to look for truth with not just my heart *or* my head - but *both*. That journey was a journey of learning and growth - not cynicism. All of the people you see posting things that question things about the Arsenal are taking the same journey. It’s a lot like life. It’s a lot like putting on an item of clothing and seeing how it fits; seeing how its stitched; seeing how it feels - *making observations about it*. It doesn’t mean you don’t love your country. It doesn’t mean you don’t love life. It certainly doesn’t mean you don’t love Arsenal. Seriously Stag, I know you love the Arsenal more than anyone has a right to, but you’ve got to be philosophical about it or you’ll lose some of your joy - and that’s too high a price for anyone.
As for Henry - yeah he dogs it sometimes. Yeah sometimes it annoys me. But if I played on that team, I would look for Henry first, second, and third. If he was covered I’d reluctantly go elsewhere, but if there was *any* chance to open him up, I take it. He is as deadly as they come. I love Reyes, but he’s still got to carry Henry’s jockstrap. Just look at the assists. Henry is the best footballer in the world - end of story.
October 1st, 2004 at 9:09 am
I saw the debate last night, as well. ;^)
Kudos for speaking your mind here, Ice. And I agree, Andez’s post has got the juices flowing, and lest any of us are either taking the pitch or donning the manager’s suit, this is what the site is for. And since I’m trying on hats here, if I’m the producer of Fox Sports World I’m firing Cohen and Geber and bringing on Andez and Stagg.
Its the sudden shift in the weather at AFC that raises the flags for me, though its been mentioned here that the increased level of our competition has contributed as well. And this morning I’m reading that Vieira and Lauren had a brawl on the bus, which is kinda funny. And unlike apparent police intervention, I think wholesale changes are NOT needed in this club. Of course not. The defense has improved with Sol and PV back, and that is great. But a trend exists from the last handful of games suggesting something other than what is expected of the club, by the club. Wenger is no doubt looking into this…once he pries his men apart from each other’s throats.
I see it this way. So far in the CL we’ve scored a goal a piece against teams we should have manhandled. Not only that, we’ve taken the lead, early on, and sat on it. Forget about their respective positions in their leagues, we’ve let them up and helped them look good. We proved our class in 15 and 6 minutes and found a rut in which to wallow. We are so head and shoulders above both teams in quality we should have embarrassed them. We didn’t. We dropped points by downshifting for the next 75 and 84 minutes. Why? My only conclusion is that some of it is in our heads. That’s a pretty good case for the likes of Cesc, Clichey, RVP, etc…try new heads once and awhile, no matter how old they are.
The players have been quoted as saying they are bolstered by a better start than last season, and that is fine. But how many times can we read or hear that our opponents had a great game. Overly-cautious play is like a disease…it affects our abilty to kill off teams and it affects our finishing. The difficulty in treating it is that its not something that Wenger can describe and address in training. Its can only happen on the field.
Let’s hope we find our balance, and when we do, we’ll being to see results that are worthy of our class. And let’s also hope that UNBEATEN doesn’t continue to translate into UNBEATING.
October 1st, 2004 at 9:37 am
Ice Ice Baby…
Perhaps my instinct is to DEFEND my people…!!!
and obviously I do with vigor. I just don’t see alot wrong with the squad. I can’t really accept that PV is the “problem”… or that Cesc should be starting over him. I don’t see Henry as the “problem” either. What will this site be like when we lose a match? or two even!!
October 1st, 2004 at 11:36 am
Stag, defending your people is a very honorable thing to do. Just like standing up for the weak kid when the bully comes calling. The thing is, nobody on the Arsenal is made of glass… well… except maybe that glass guy in the trophy cabinet from the trip to Brazil in 1932, but that’s a different story. Focus Ice… focus… where were we? Oh wait, okay…
…so even these fine men that play for the Arsenal don’t need to be defended every time. Sometimes certainly. You definately swayed me on Lehmann. I was absorbing a little of the negative buzz and you set me straight, so I’m glad. If you defend everything and everyone though, you’re going to lose the kind of impact you had on me. People are going to believe that your defense is a knee-jerk reaction and they aren’t going to give you as much credit as you deserve. I’ve seen hundreds of your posts Stag - you’re an incredibly knowledgable and passionate observer about the Arsenal *and* the sport of football. Don’t let your messages be marginalized by any perception that your just a defender… just an apologist. I know you must think that if we’re unbeaten in both the league and the CL, there is no good reason to bully the team. True I suppose, but using that logic, the flip side of the coin is that if the team is doing so well there is no need to defend it either. Yes?
Your last point, which I have seen from you before, is very well taken. So let us all make a vow - we who love the Arsenal - let us vow that whenever the Arsenal finally lose we will let it go. No matter what the circumstances, no matter how poorly they play in the loss, we will let it go. We will not mourn the loss, but raise a glass and celebrate all the victories as we look to the future with new hope. Fair?