The build-up to ManU is already in frenzy mode but Wednesday, I’d argue, is a lot more important. Why?
First, because the group is looking quite tight. We have 4 points; PSV and Panathinaikos both have 3. Which is tighter than it ought to be looking, given the mediocre opposition, I think.
But second, and more crucially, unless we win on Wednesday - and win with some style - then we might as well forget it: we are obviously still in the grip of the jinx It’s a mental thing that’s jinxing us, that much is clear from the dismal displays we so often put on. Auxerre at home a couple of years back is the game that sticks in my mind, but if you’re lucky enough to have forgotten it, then consider last month’s performance at Rosenborg. Miserable, anxious, tentative, completely lacking in self-belief. Like a cow with the handbrake on, as Paddy expressed it. (I know, I know, I probably misheard him.) And Rosenborg, it’s worth remembering, are not a good side; teams like Charlton and Villa could probably beat them. But they believed they could snatch a point against us, so, not surprisingly, that’s what they did. Pana probably think they can beat us.
Can they? Not on paper, they can’t. Last year they were third in the group - only Rangers were worse -and since then they’ve lost several key players - the excellent right back Seitarides, notably, and the even more excellent keeper, Nikopolides. In addition, they’ve just sacked their coach, the Israeli Hzhak Shum, and replaced him with a Czech called Scasny, who has barely had time to meet his players as yet. The only real threats, it seems, are Goumas in defence, Basinas and Tsartsaris (if he’s back from injury) in midfield, and the impressive-looking striker, Olisadbe. (Improbably he’s a Nigerian-born Poland international.)
And what of us? On paper we’re obviously not at full strength, with Dennis missing, plus Paddy, Gilberto, Freddie, Clichy - and Ashley looking exhausted. We could, though, make a virtue of necessity and take a risk with the kids.
I’d like to see this formation: Henry and van P up front. Reyes on the left, Cesc and Flamini in the middle, Pires on the right.
Crazy? It’s a risk, I suppose, but Reyes is better playing on the left of midfield - Wenger himself has said this - so why play him out of position when there’s van P, who aspires to the Bergkamp role, t itching to be given a chance? Why Flamini in preference to Edu? I admit I’m not an Edu fan at the best of times - too goofy - but even those who admire him must surely agree that at the moment he’s decidedly poor - careless, unfocused, dreaming of Barca perhaps. Fllamini, on the other hand, has really begun to come good and he’s not inexperienced in Europe - last season he had an excellent run with Marseille.
So let’s forget caution. Caution may actually be our worst enemy. Maybe, just maybe, the kids haven’t yet been infected with whatever anxiety has been undermining us in the past. Take a risk, play to our strengths. After all, remembering Rosenborg, we could hardly do worse.
12 Responses to “Let’s Not Forget Panathinaikos”
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October 17th, 2004 at 10:16 pm
Miranda, if we look at the points difference and all that, it seems that the game against ManU is less important. They are 11 points apart in the league and they look poor recently. But the old trafford game will determine whether ManU are still on for the race. If we win at old trafford, we will kill off that little belief in ManU players that they could still make a come back.
Of course, the win will further emphasize the ’shift of power’ thing.
As for CL, Rosenborg was not really weak. They are a decent team. We gave away points for trying to play 1-0 game we know we are not good at. But the boys learned from the game and the 2 points lost was worth the lesson.
Even if we lose or draw the next game, we know we could always qualify in this group. And panathinaikos home is never an easy fixture. This kind of game will show how much we have matured in CL competition.
I rate Flamini but I think Wenger would play Edu instead. Sigh.. I hope I don’t need to endure the pain of seeing him consistently giving away balls all night.
v.Persie, he seems still adapting to the game. But there is no harm to give the boy his chance.
October 17th, 2004 at 10:26 pm
Miranda… come on now…
unless we win and win with some style… then we might as well forget it???!
Thats a joke right?
Do you remember last years CL? we were left for dead after 3 games… we are now TOP of the group. I could care less about the style, and we could draw or lose and be just fine.
Rosenburg away… I don’t think Villa or Charlton could beat them…. sorry… there is virtually no mediocre competition in the CL… its the best teams in Europe.
We need to look at the BIG PICTURE.
All we need and want to do is ADVANCE in the Champions League. Style points mean F-All… ideally you win your home games and points on the road are a bonus.
As far as our squad… I’d like to see Pennant and VanPersie get some playing time… but you do need some experience. If Paddy can’t go… Edu will have to step up and show some leadership. I think we’ll be just fine regardless… this is the type of game I’d be looking for Ray Parlour and Wiltord…!!! Some experience with players that have been on the big stage often…
A win is fantastic… a draw is not bad… just can’t see us losing to anyone right now!
October 18th, 2004 at 9:00 am
Miranda
I agree with you that the game against Panathinaikos is more important than the ManU game. If we had to lose one of them I’d choose the Utd game as we have plenty of other games to make up for it. A lose in the CL would be more damaging. However, I just don’t see us losing either and I think a win and and a draw is the most likely outcome.
Not sure about your team selection. I know Edu’s not been impressive this season but he’s hardly played so I haven’t written him off yet and I’m sure Wenger hasn’t either, so I expect to see him start on Wednesday alongside Cesc. Also think it’s not the game to give Van Persie a start so we should see Freddie, Henry, Reyes and Pires up front.
October 18th, 2004 at 9:54 am
Great article Miranda. I can’t believe I’m going to do this but, I agree with Stag on this one.
I just think its too early to be worried about the table, and although I give Panathinaikos their due, I don’t see us losing. Even if we did its still too early to worry about advancing.
That said, I really like your team selection, with my only concern being Flamini. I did not see him against Villa, so I can’t comment on his performance there, but he has seemed to me to be trying too hard. Not the worst thing you could say about a player to be sure, but he gets a little sloppy doing it, and I wouldn’t want to be punished with a red card for his careless enthusiasm. I think Flamini can handle it, but I would trust Edu too, and this is just the kind of game that could pull Edu back up in the form table. Remember him last year in the CL? He has looked decidedly lackluster lately though. I expected so much more from him at the beginning of the year. Maybe Stag was right about him. What did you say about him Stag… its kind of hazy but I seem to recall something like, “He’s a worthless pile of rubbish that even Crystal Palace would reject”. Right?
October 18th, 2004 at 11:22 am
Huh? Me… criticize an Arsenal player that harshly?! Nope… Edu is not one of my favorites… and if given the choice between Edu and Gilberto, I’d select Gilberto 9 out of 10 times… but Edu is hardly rubbish! He contributed in a good number of games last year… I just prefer Gilberto’s defensive style. Edu… if he wants to go to Barca… good luck. He is a good player, but not at his best at the moment. I’d play him over Flamini on this big stage, thats for sure.
October 18th, 2004 at 12:38 pm
Miranda - good information on Panathinaikos. So much had been written about the upcoming game against Manure that we seem to think that the Panathinaikos game is a gimme. Far from it, and I agree with you that the focus should be on the next game. It has to be one game at a time to borrow an overused cliche.
But I have to disagree on starting players like Flamini and van Persie in the Panathinaikos game for the simple reason that they are still coming to terms with the way Arsenal plays. At best, they should come on as subs later in the game which is what Wenger had been doing so far. I think Ljundberg is available for the CL game and should start on the right. Middle of the park should be Edu and Cesc. Granted Edu did not have the best of starts this season but he is a proven performer with Arsenal - not Flamini nor van Persie. And I will put Pires in his preferred right position to link up with Henry and Reye upfront.
The game against Panathinaikos is really not the game to experiment with our younger players when the more experienced ones are available.
October 18th, 2004 at 3:36 pm
What’s bothering me isn’t the group table as such but rather what it means that we’ve already dropped a couple of points playing dully against a a dull team. Something’s not right with us in the CL. Something mental. I get the feeling that maybe it’s because we want it so much that anxiety creeps in - that it is anxiety that’s sapping our freedom and style. Remember last year in Milan? It was precisely because we had nothing to loose that we threw caution to the winds and began to play out of our skins. Compare that to most of our other dull and dismal displays. Year in, year out. That’s why I’m tearing my hair out in puzzlement and frustration.
Look, with our talent we ought to be winning this comp every now and again, or, if not winning, at least reaching the semis. But we’ve never even got near. That’s why I’d like to try something new - perhaps using the kids. God knows, it’s not exactly a challenging group, so now’s our chance to experiment a little and see if we can get rid of whatever it is that’s inhibiting our premiership self-belief and panache. Wenger won’t, of course; he’ll go with experience, and that means we’ll doubtless carry on as before, going out to a goodish side - like Valencia, like Juve - in the next round or so.
Flamini? I hadn’t really taken him in before Villa. Then, at around 60 minutes he came on and I sat open-mouthed. Magic!
October 18th, 2004 at 3:52 pm
I’ve echoed many of your comments here in the past, Miranda. It is frustrating when our team can’t get out of their own way to win. We are, however, top of the group, even its not exactly the most daunting of groups. Still, I think the balance of defense and offense we’ve shown since the Rosenborg clash should do us well mentally and see us dissolve a few shackles. All signs say we’re going to get more free with our play, and we all know what that means for 99% of our opponents.
We’re lucky in that our inexperienced youth have so much precocious talent. No baggage, just skill. Inserting them into the equation, again, should prove well for us.
One big win and I think we’ll actually be able to see a new Arsenal?one where they inately believe that bringing the world to their knees is nothing more than an application of business as usual.
October 18th, 2004 at 4:01 pm
I’m sure you’re right about van P etc. not yet having adapted to our style of play. And if Freddie is available he should obviously play. Edu worries me, though - he looks as though his mind is elsewhere. Oh well, with a bit of luck he’ll stop giving the ball away and manage to score for us now we’ve been slagging him off.
October 18th, 2004 at 5:58 pm
Wenger has already given Edu an ultimatum - just like what he did with Viera. Viera came to his senses. I am sure Edu will also do the same and toe the party line
October 18th, 2004 at 6:45 pm
This applies to Scotty’s comments as well, but my question would be this: As strange as it seems - aren’t we doing better in CL this year than last? Hadn’t we lost by this point last year? I’m not being sharp here, the memory is just failing me. The thought occurs to me that we might carry over this “unbeaten” thing into the Champions League - and in so doing merge our two selves. If you’re unbeaten and you’re whipping some teams 4-0 in the league - then why not be unbeaten in the Champions League *and whip on some teams 4-0*. I’m hoping their mindset moves in that direction. We also need to create the same fear in our opponents in the Champions League as we do in the league - and that will take some time and some blowouts.
October 19th, 2004 at 2:07 pm
True, Ice, last year we were bottom of the group till the last possible moment, but that was a hard group, whereas this one . . . well, it’s like the goddess handpicked it for us, giving us the weakest team from each of the pots. That’s why we need to make use of our luck to get into the habit of winning in style. ‘Cos the next stage sure as hell is going to be hard. Obviously it’s too soon to be sure how things will pan out, but the early indications are that there’ll be three Italian clubs in the draw plus three or four English (who, of course, we can’t play). So I’d expect an Italian side next - Juve, Milan, Inter: all frightful as Inter this year are exceptionally good. Either an Italian side or perhaps - what a nightmare - Kiev, who are also going great guns. I suppose the really amazing thing is that both Real and Roma look as though they may be going out. . .