Ed. Note - Sorry no post-match reviews earlier, but a 1-nil victory against a crap side doesn’t inspire. Here’s a rather harsh look at the current situation…
I?ve always had this nagging feeling that we should?ve let Patrick move on to Spain as we all know clearly he was thinking about money mainly and a change of environment and maybe more medals. However his explanation, after the deal fell off, that his heart is with Arsenal and that?s the sole reason for not leaving is just a load of crap. Any Arsenal fan who doesn?t agree with this is actually cheating himself. Anyway after watching him play against Portsmouth, this feeling just got strengthened many times. He is not the force he used to be and is too lethargic nowadays. The one recent good performance was the 2nd half against Liverpool. But in many matches when he has played, we seem to be going a step backwards. I?m not blaming him entirely for the team?s lacklustre performance against Portsmouth, but we all know very well that mid-field battles & vision are important in setting the match tone. Sadly I saw him losing out on many occassions to the hard working Stone.
After watching the other teams play on Saturday and Chelski, Manure & Spurs winning big time, I was eagerly waiting for the Portsmouth game as I reckoned the recent revival run, plus the good performance against Chelski and a one week break would see us thrashing Portsmouth at least by 4 goals. However when I saw the team sheet before the match, I quickly re-adjusted the scoreline and was looking forward to any kind of win. Because with Patrick & Flamini in the centre, I didn?t know what to expect. Don?t know who was slotted to do the defensive work and who to barge forward when required. And with Clichy on the left I was a lil? nervous, but was happy to see V.Persie given the start.
After the match, I came to some conclusions. Henry & Clichy did not link up well, in fact not at all well and he was putting more pressure on the junior player, which I felt could have been prevented. Pires was a disgrace except for a couple of runs. Patrick did nothing except swing the ball from the left to right to switch attack modes. He also made some silly passes which were intercepted and gave the ball away cheaply many times and could have led to an opposition goal once or twice. V.Persie was trying to take on 2 or 3 people everytime he got the ball, which was not sensible seeing the numbers of players Portsmouth played behind the ball. He should have passed or laid off. Toure & Campbell should make more of these runs when opposition defend deep and play 10 men behind the ball.
But the most important conclusion was how much we missed the little genius - Cesc Fabregas. From his performances we all know that this kid is a brilliant footballer and his absence really proved that without a shadow of doubt. If you want quick flowing Arsenal, some superb defence splitting passes and some mazy runs into the box, then look no further than Cesc. If he had played I am dead sure Robin would have scored at least a couple of goals. Don?t ask me how but that?s my strong belief which we can never find out now. But one thing?s for certain. As Bergy?s lost some of his magic and Patrick is roaming lethargically in the field with very little good passes made (maybe he feels threatened due to Cesc), we cannot afford to let the little genius rest for too long as we need his his simple touch & pass skill, his runs and above all his wonderful vision to thread the ball into an unimaginable area with deadly precision. In my opinion, the league starts now. We need to start on a winning run if we need our title back and for that Cesc has to start every game, 17 or not?..
52 Responses to “Fabregas - The key to titles!”
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December 20th, 2004 at 9:23 am
I belive Everton won at Fratton park and Arsenal is then only the second team to secure victory there (I might be forgetting some team but I think not). ManU got beaten there and teams dont come there and score 4 goals, it was never a realistic goal. Performance might have been better but again this is for some reason one of the tougher field to play at. I am not actually seeing Chelski put four goals past them in a week time or so when they play them.
Regarding Cesc, the guy is owesome but as you say 17. There are endless numer of players who started too young and have been strugling with injurys all of their playing carrier. Wenger knows this and it was nice to see Cesc get a breather (and us still win). If he is not careful with this boy he could destroy him and that would be disaster!
December 20th, 2004 at 9:39 am
I had a sinking feeling that the Paddy/Flamini pairing would be suspect. But since my PPV crapped out, I couldn’t see the game so I’ll reserve any comments on what actually happened. Though I will say that I’ve heard ’round the horn much of what you state here. And I’m a fan of Cesc in the middle of the park, but he needed a rest. There, that’s all I’m going to say about that.
Pompey were up for this one, and have been on a tough, unbeaten tear. They stunned ManU earlier, and I have to believe that, with 10 men behind the ball, anyone would have had a run for their money yesterday at Fratton Park. I’m not going to beat us too badly, as we had our chances when we weren’t trying to walk the ball into the net, and hit them too hard, or not enough. I think we’re still struggling with confidence around the pitch, and will constantly be fighting inside all season to go for the kill for a full 90 and not playing to the opposition.
And this is purely speculative, but perhaps, deep inside, a few of us think that there’s no chance of overtaking the three-squad strong Blues this year and are playing a bit defeated. All in all, still some pretty football when we’re realxed, and we’re back in second on the table.
Good things: van Persie got a start, no set piece goals, and Almunia and Sol got on Team of the Week on soccernet. The greasy-palmed Spaniard really pulled our asses out of the fire yesterday, and that is HUGE considering our keeper woes of late. Nothing helps confidence for the D and the keeper like a 1-nil.
I hate to see Chelsea and ManU running all over teams, as well. But Palace ran out of gas after their own goal and Norwich…well, what can you say there? Both teams are strong and healthy right now, save a certain Dutch poacher. We’re just going to have to scrape and scrap a bit, as we need 3 here on out.
December 20th, 2004 at 10:33 am
Greengunner
I agree with your comment on Viera as he gave a pathetic performance, especially in the 2nd half. But I think you are too harsh on the other players like Pires, van Persie, Clichy and Flamini. Clichy and van Persie are new to the first team and they will need a few more games under their belts to get into the Arsenal gameplan. It is true that van Persie tries to beat one too many players at times but he will adapt and can only get better. With van Persie, we now have a target man who can also drop down to provide passes. With Clichy , we have a fast and talented player whose speed can complement Henry’s - just need a few more games to time his runs better.
Cole was poor by his normal standards, giving away the ball in the penalty box. But Wenger needs to sit Viera down and get him to improve. I was really mad with him for slowly trodding back after giving the ball away cheaply under a challenge from Stone. Maybe a change of captain’s armband to Campbell might do the trick.
I will take the 1-0 win anyday over Portsmouth. The Pompeys played well and stuck their defenders to Henry and van Persie thruout the game. In Yakubu and Fuller, they have two very physical and tricky attackers. Don’t forget Manure lost 2-0 at Fratton Park - Chel$ki will be in for a tough time when they visit Pompeys over the Xmas period.
My men of the match goes to Flamini and Almunia, Flamini for his tireless running in attack and defence and seldom putting a foot wrong. Edu can now go for all I care. Almunia seemed to have settled down after two poor starting games and the saves he made from Fuller and Berger were top class. Did not show much jitters in punching balls away from corners. Campbell is a close second with him taking control of the box when defending against setpieces. Looks like the extra setpiece practices are starting to bear fruit - a clean sheet for a change.
December 20th, 2004 at 10:36 am
Since when do Gooners bemoan an away win of one-nil to the Arsenal? Sol’s strike was dynamite, and we should be pleased.
December 20th, 2004 at 10:40 am
I wouldn’t gripe to much about a 1-0 win against Pompey. We were never going to put four past them, just look at their record at home. They beat ManU and are a tough team to win against. It was never going to be easy.
Agree that PV should have gone to Real. You only have to look at Lampard and Gerard to feel envious. Think he’s past his best. Good for vanP to get a start. With Reyes and Pires you never know what to expect these days, so the sooner we start breaking new players in, the better.
December 20th, 2004 at 10:53 am
Patrick Veiria shld have left. These days, he just seem to be second best in every situation. It seems that he has lost the fire in his eyes that made him a Highbury fave. Those gate crashing tackles, that ferocious appettie for winning seems to have died with his failes transfer to Madrid.
Lucky for us, we have Fabregas, but at 17, is technically undergoing his puberty yrs and i support Wenger’s decision to rest him. He always seem to be doing the right things at the right time and he reminds me of Xavi of Barcelona. Such a talented player is 1 for the future and must be carefully nurtured.
December 20th, 2004 at 11:01 am
If you truly believe the way to win titles is to put the 17yr.old wonder boy out there EVERY match, then you don’t care about the FUTURE of Cesc.
We play numerous matches over the next few weeks, and alot of players need to play… Flamini Cesc Edu Vieira Pennant VanPersie Pires Ljunberg… I’d like to see ALL of them play during this exhausting holiday schedule…
Now… if you think Cesc / Flamini are capable of winning the title for us in midfield this year… or doing anything against the big boys of the Champions League, you are deluding yourself.
I do NOT agree with your Vieira assessment, and NO, I am not cheating myself. You are deluding yourself into believing he is not important to the current Arsenal campaign(s)… because you are angry with him…
Vieira is going to be here for this season. Wenger is going to play him as much as he can. He is going to be wearing the captain’s armband when he plays. You don’t have to like it… but you aren’t going to change these facts.
As I have said previously… without THE PATRICK VIEIRA … the one that has shown up and played so well for us in previous seasons… we will not win the league or the Champion’s League or FA CUP.
You can’t win big games against big time competition on a regular basis, over the course of the season or Tournaments….. without THE MAN or MEN in the middle of the park controlling the match. Cesc and Flamini are wonderful young players… however… they are NOT going to dominate a game or take control of a match with hard crunching tackles… or impose themselves on the opponent. Unless you are bringing in Steven Gerrard’s clone… its VIEIRA for the remainder of this season. Get used to it.
December 20th, 2004 at 12:07 pm
Don’t take it personal. We’d like A+ Vieira, but since he hasn’t been for a while, what good is he playing at D- level??? Still wish he had gone anywayz….
December 20th, 2004 at 1:00 pm
I am not the one taking it personal. Its tiring to see the same Vieira bashing… over and over. Like it or not… he is the man in the middle of the park for the remainder of the season, barring injury. If he doesn’t play up to his usual high standards, we aren’t winning anything.
Wenger has said he might not SPEND A PENNY in the January transfer window… not bringing in anyone except Eboue, who is already signed apparently, from Beveren. So we are what we are… if he doesn’t buy any new players, then we have Jens/Almunia in goal… the same back 4 with the same supporting cast of Hoyte,Senderos,Cygan, Clichy, & Eboue….
the same midfield…. with VIEIRA prominent… and if Gilberto makes it back in February, you can BANK on it… its Gilberto/Vieira in midfield with Cesc coming off the bench late.
We are not making big wholesale changes this season… and even if we could offload Vieira, its not going to be this season. He is cup-tied in the CL… no good to anyone who needs him to get to the next level of the Champion’s League.
We need him to perform…or else we are in major trouble.
December 20th, 2004 at 1:11 pm
All the talk about Vieira has merits on every side. We need him, at the moment, and if his deal is dead at Real, I surely don’t want to see him going to ManU with Edu.
He’s either going to find the fire and work to partner with the youngsters (which we’ve had problems with others doing in other positions) or sit out cause Wenger will never let him go.
But after the news that Liverpool has made a bid on Morientes, I’m wondering: hey, we don’t need a striker, but while Reyes is figuring out what’s going on, wouldn’t a 4 million bid on an experienced quality player who is brought in these days for his prowess in the air be an interesting idea?
Real brought him on over the w/e and he assisted on a stoppage time, winning goal. How? With his head. Hmmmm…
December 20th, 2004 at 1:50 pm
Hmmm nice one
PV I don’t talk about him anymore for Stag’s sake. I agree with you and like Most fans even b4 the start of the season believes Arsenal should have get rid of him and used the money to buy someone with their heart and mind at Arsenal.
Someone told me, I’m a big fool if I think PV really loves Arsenal. Forget about all the crap he said, if RM had given him what he wants and Arsenal had their money he would have been a Gooner by now. No 2 ways about it.
As for Edu, I really understands him and at least made his intension clear. Is for the club to sort out the deal or let him go. If PV was a man like Edu I would have respect him and losing his respect very fast. Can’t even pass the ball of late. Without him we have played better his season and that is facts
December 20th, 2004 at 2:53 pm
Cesc is clearly already outplaying Vieira but we need to consider his future and make sure he gets enough rest. The question is, When should we play him, in which games? The important ones, e.g. the CL? Trouble is, with Paddy as captain that’s not going to happen, unless we play them together, which in my view doesn’t work well.
Yes, Flamini is looking good too, but van Persie, I thought, was disappointing. I must say I don’t really like him but I’m glad he’ll be starting over the next few weeks (unless we use Lupoli) so we could see a big improvement very soon. Let’s hope. Reyes is injured and going to be out for a while - twisted knee.
Miranda
December 20th, 2004 at 3:23 pm
vanP needs a run of games. I see a player who could be as good as Roy Maakay one day. Reyes out injured is a mixed blessing, hope he spends the time reflecting on his recent abyssmal form. I hope vanP seizes the chance.
December 20th, 2004 at 3:32 pm
First, Pompey are an in form club, who are giant killers at home. That said, we didn’t play well either. The sad thing was we were not committed in challenges. We showed a lack of what the Brits call ‘bottle’. We needed Freddie in that game and we needed PV4 to play like the old PV4.
Fabregas is the future but he is not right now. He’s much too young and new to the game and slightly built. Wenger is right in that he can’t start or play too many games. He’s best used coming off the bench and in league cup games. What if he gets hurt ala Aliadiere? We’re stretched thin in the middle of the pitch as it is.
We still haven’t showed we want the title as yet.
December 20th, 2004 at 4:18 pm
Things bothering me in the run-up to the transfer window opening:
1. Do you think Wenger is lying when he says we’re not considering buying King?
2. What’s going to happen to Lehmann? Are we looking for another first-choice, second-choice keeper?
3. Anyone got any news on Gilberto?
Miranda
December 20th, 2004 at 5:33 pm
for goodness sake stag, there is no point on defending vieira to the hilt when it is patently obvious he is taking the piss with his recent displays.
he is playing absolutely useless, brings nothing to the side defensively or offensively. you say he going to be a permanent fixture period until the end of the season, but not if he carries on playing like this. flamini/fabregas is the partnership of choice at the moment.
you wouldn’t make a very good manager, ignoring current form because vieira played well last year. no player, especially one with an inflated ego like vieira, has a devine right to play. why the hell should he be playing to the end of the season playing like he is now?
December 20th, 2004 at 5:38 pm
My Opine…
I’d like to see us get a solid defender…
However… this is what Arsene says…
Wenger has said he is not going to spend “a penny” on anyone in the transfer window. He said the young players that he has are like getting new players. I don’t think he is buying anything.
The team is the team is the team.
Lehmann is here for the remainder of the year, he has said he will fight for his place, and Wenger said he was happy with that from Jens, and happy with his current keepers. Not buying a goalie.
Gilberto has said he hopes to be back for the Champions League vs. Bayern Munich. So… early February? He was hoping to begin light training in the new year. This rubbishes reports that he was definitely out for the season.
If we can get Edu & Gilberto back and playing in form, and the real PV4 shows up soon…. we can win anything and everything.
Without the above happening, we might come away with nothing. Its all there for us to take, or not… thats why they play the games!
December 20th, 2004 at 5:43 pm
Mazza….
You watch what happens… if I am wrong, I will eat my words and apologize profusely. If you truly think Wenger is going to sit a healthy Vieira on the bench and play Cesc/Flamini… you haven’t been paying attention to Arsene Wenger over the last few years.
I do not think Vieira is playing well. I haven’t mentioned his play ONCE… he is not the same as he was… thats apparent. But he is what we need. The old PV4 is precisely what this team needs. At 17, Wenger is not going to risk playing Cesc every match. He will play Vieira, Edu, & Gilberto before him the majority of the time.
I would not want Cesc playing every match. Its short sighted thinking, and thats one thing Wenger is not… short sighted.
You actually think we are going to see Vieira on the bench on a regular basis?? if he is healthy?
I’ll bet you he plays more matches than Cesc does.
December 20th, 2004 at 6:45 pm
I have to agree the situation with Vieira is worrying. I am still trying to figure out whether it is just bad form or he has finally made his mind up to leave.
One thing I’m certain about is that he didn’t leave for the money. The door was open for Real Madrid, Wenger told him so, all he had to do was make that final step. So why didn’t he? No, money is not the issue.
Wenger will never cash in Vieira, but it will be interesting to see in the summer if he decides to leave. Unfortunately he will have severely tarnished his reputation at Arsenal if he does leave, but until then he just about deserves the benefit of the doubt.
December 20th, 2004 at 7:57 pm
Agree with your views that Fratton Park is a tough place to go and get results. But if I am not wrong, we got them last time around 5-1 in the FA cup. The point was that if Arsenal truly performed, we could have got 3 or 4 goals. With PV14 I am not so sure that we will get that fluidity unless he vastly improves.
I know that Cesc needs a breather, but as we don’t have anyone with his quality & commitment, I had to say that we need him for every EPL & CL game. If someone else steps upto his standard, then maybe we can rotate properly.
December 20th, 2004 at 8:12 pm
Scotty, love your views cos’ almost everytime you are spot on. One thing I have to disagree here is that just because they pulled one over Manure, us accepting a 1-0 win is not justified. Since when have we started using Manure as a benchmark. I have been watching Manure and ourselves for years and can tell you that we are lightyears ahead in the footballing department. Manure in my opinion, after 1999, is just an average mid-table team, but manage to win by bullying people around, getting dubious penalties and some biased refereeing.
I guess I am still pissed about the Chelski draw. In that game, we were the better team in the 2nd half and we could have easily won the game, if our players had treated chelski like shit. We gave them respect and end of the day looked happy to draw the game. C’mon… for christ sake.. we gave them 2 sloppy soft goals, they never threatened from open play and we could have easily beaten them if we had the mindset that they were just another London team like Fulham.
Anyway to the other points. Van Persie looked okay but I expected Henry to advise him not to take too many players as they were marking him tight. Defending was good and Sol’s goal was terrific. We should do this more often.
December 20th, 2004 at 8:24 pm
Josereyes,
I never said anything about Flamini, how could I, when I see him playing with that kind of Ljungbergish spirit and passion. Easiliy he was my MOTM.
Pires - made a couple of decent runs late in the game but otherwise not good. He really performed very well in the Chelski game, so it was only natural that I expected him to do that every other game.
Clichy - totally nothing against him. My view was that he did not link up well with Henry but never said that it was his mistake. It was the Henry’s mistake that he did not link up well. He did not motivate the youngster enough. Instead I saw him throwing disgusted looks when Clichy could not anticipate & reach one of his return passes (not that it was great return pass).
Van Persie - happy that he started, not happy that he took on many players at the same time. He should’ve passed, but again I think it is not his mistake. Expected Henry, Pires or Patrick to tell him on this, but we seem to communicate so little in the field. Seniors should guide the youngsters and if they are not doing it, I feel injustice done to the youngsters’ talents and spirit.
December 20th, 2004 at 8:30 pm
1-0 win is very sweet and I want more of this kind of result. But we are talking about the performance of certain individuals here….
December 20th, 2004 at 8:33 pm
AG, like your views much as I always agree with your comments about the team. However like I explained to Scotty in the previous reply, why should we compare ourselves against a mid-table team?? Other than that we share the same views on PV14 and other issues.
December 20th, 2004 at 8:37 pm
Spot on… couldn’t agree more with you on Fabregas. However we don’t have anyone with his vision and application right now. Bergy lost his magic and PV14 is not performing and that’s why, though I hate this for saying, we will have to play him in every EPL game, if we want to retain the title. But in the meantime, if we get our old Patrick back, I will be more than happy to grab him with both my hands and give that poor kid the care and nurture he deserves.
December 20th, 2004 at 9:04 pm
Stag, your unshakeable belief in the players should really be appreciated. But I have a question for you? What do you really want - the title, medals & glory or just keeping everyone happy in the club?
The hard fact is only title & glory will keep everyone happy in the club. And that’s what we, the fans, too want.
Most of the fans think that Patrick is not performing and it’s a fact hard to digest for any hardcore Arsenal fan. However sometimes let’s think from the head rather than the heart. We all love Patrick, and I used to hero-worship him. However we need the old Patrick back. If he is not performing due to whatever reasons, for the team’s sake, the Manager will have to either bench him or sell him. Maybe Cesc has set a high standard, which Patrick feels is tough to emulate, then he will just have to practice harder. We are not asking for Patrick to copy Cesc’s style of play but what we are asking for is the ferocious tackler he used to be, and also the one who covers more ground than anyone else. We want that hard working and commited Patrick. That I believe is a reasonable expectation from the fans. Now if he can’t deliver that, than what good is he?
I like the last paragraph of your view. Now that is what exactly what we are asking for. Crunching tackles and imposing himself. But whenever he has played this season, except for the odd show, we have not seen that. So if he continues not to deliver that, do you think that we should still retain him as our player?
December 20th, 2004 at 9:09 pm
Love_G, share the same sentiments. Whenever he has not played we seem to be doing so well. Of late, I get the shivers when PV is in the team, because I don’t know when he will lose possession cheaply which then may result in an oppostion goal. Also, I have not seen him make one real goal scoring pass of late, but on the other hand we have the brilliant Cesc. And that is the result of this article.
December 20th, 2004 at 9:19 pm
AG, the harsh fact is that if we don’t play him in the middle of the park, we will create very little chances. In the game against Portsmouth, we never played one killer pass right from mid-field straight to the box, because we never had anyone who could do that. We took to the wings, left & right and tried to break inside, but nothing came off as there were always 2 or 3 players in the box behind the ball. If we had Cesc, he might have sent one defence splitting ball and Robin might have latched on to it and scored (this has been my strong feeling after the game).
Anyway the point is, we have to win and we have to break down such difficult oppositions. So we need a quality player like him. While I agree that we need to give him breaks, but we should not look at the Aliadiere case and prevent him from playing. That may happen to anyone, anytime and that is not the result of playing too many games. It’s an injury due to some challenge in the game. If we take this example and fear for such injuries, then we cannot play anyone at all.
December 20th, 2004 at 10:24 pm
Stag, you are missing the point here. We are not talking about what Wenger is going to do to the situation, but rather pouring our own views here. Some of us are saying that Patrick is not performing and in this case, we should use other players, until he gets his motivation & commitment back. That’s all.
We all know Wenger very well and how he sticks on to his loyalty principle. What we are afraid is that if we are going to stick to an under-performing PV14, then we might draw games which we should easily win and lose tough away games, which we should easily draw. We can then kiss the title g’bye.
The harsh fact is that we have another 20 games and we need to win at least 17 of them to have a chance to retain the title. It’s getting hot and there’s no place for under-performers.
This is purely our view but we know that Arsene Wenger will start PV14 every game this season, and realistically we can only hope that he returns to his best or else we will be slogging out our frustrations in this wonderful website, every other game…
December 20th, 2004 at 10:49 pm
Green… I don’t believe PV4 has performed badly. He is NOT playing the way we are accustomed to seeing him play… but he is hardly chopped liver.
Yes, we can surely use the forum to give our views. Its excellent … but they have to be reality based. I can say we should bring in John Terry, Ronaldinho and VanNistelroy…. but its NOT going to happen. Vieira IS going to be playing for us… and ALOT. We can either support him and the squad… or talk about how a 17yr old should play EVERY GAME? over our captain??
Thats Not talking reality… Vieira is the current FAVORITE SCAPEGOAT…. thats fine… I can somewhat understand it. But its not going to change the line-up!!! Thank GOD Arsene is making those decisions and not the fans.
These are some of the same folks that took swipes at Henry, saying he doesn’t play well in big games! Thats RUBBISH! and I will refute those type opinions.
Thats what a forum is… give AND take. Opposing views… ALL FOR THE ARSENAL!!
We need Patrick Vieira THIS YEAR… I just don’t see any other way about it.
December 20th, 2004 at 10:56 pm
My point on Vieira is that HE IS HERE. He isn’t going anywhere until at least the summer. He WILL continue to play… and we need him to be a major POSITVE influence. Why not back him when he is down… thats what being a supporter to me is all about. Support thru GOOD and BAD… I want and yell louder when we are not playing well. Not just for the team…. but the players as well. I’ll back Patrick to improve during the season… and to lead us as the season goes along.
December 20th, 2004 at 11:13 pm
Stag, C’mon mate… we are talking reasonable reality here. We are not going to wish for all the top footall stars in the world to play for us. Also I am not looking at PV14 as a scape goat, it’s just that his performances have dropped, not slight, but rather astonishing levels. When you see a player who does not have skills, try something skillful, doesn’t work out, you are not going to be cross with him. But when the reverse happens, seeing a player like PV14, roaming the pitch for the sake of it (at least that’s how it looks like this year), you are heartbroken. You know he is capable of much more than this. But somehow the effort is not there. And that is why we are pissed off! What we need is the effort & commitment. If there is an alternative that is ready to provide this, what’s wrong in asking for it, though that alternative is just 17 years old?
December 21st, 2004 at 1:44 am
I just saw this article. I have to test the link, but I’ll try it here. It seems timely given the debate raging about Viera.
http://217.204.41.132/cgi/NGoto/2/79846045?1206
http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/comment/story.jsp?story=595127
One of these should work for you on a copy and paste.
December 21st, 2004 at 2:21 am
While you are at it, why not try the following links also:
http://www.arseblog.com/index.php
and
http://arsenalmuse.blogspot.com/
You may have to browse down in arsenalmuse to read the article.
December 21st, 2004 at 8:49 am
Stagg, I side with you here that we’ve got him and can only try and support him to the PV4 we all THINK he can be. There was injury talk, and that can’t be easily discounted.
My quesiton is: is he a positive influence, right now?
December 21st, 2004 at 10:07 am
Scotty… I really TRUST … ALL CAPS… Arsene Wenger… if he felt Patrick Vieira was a NEGATIVE influence, he’d rectify the situation.
Not sure how he’d be a negative influence, in that I believe he is giving an honest effort. If anyone thinks he’s not trying, they’re wrong.
December 21st, 2004 at 10:14 am
I don’t agree that Vieira is not giving his best effort. I do not debate that he is not the same player we are accustomed to. He IS trying. He is not out there strolling around… and I’ve seen almost every match.
I like Cesc VERY MUCH. I think he is a star waiting to happen. I do NOT want to see him played every match at age 17 and get either injured or burned out.
Also, we have talked a bit in this forum about Cesc as well. Who is to say he’ll pledge his long-term future here? 17 yr.old spaniard. Wouldn’t you rather play in your own country… own language, comfortable surroundings? for Barca or Real M.?
This is a distinct possibility… so we can’t really mortgage the future on this one.
December 21st, 2004 at 10:23 am
Very Interesting article…
and I’d have to agree with the vast majority of it.
VIEIRA needs to step up and start playing like we know he can. I, simply put… believe he will.
December 21st, 2004 at 10:55 am
Yes, yes…Arsenal knows. I’m on board.
December 21st, 2004 at 11:10 am
Arsenal ……. -al + e
December 21st, 2004 at 12:37 pm
well, if vieira is giving his best effort then the situation is even more worrying. when steve stone runs the midfield against you, when your giving your all, then its time for us gooners to write off the season(if, as you so say, vieira is so important)
i said all summer we should let him go to madrid(not on this site admittedly) because he has been in decline for the last three years. this year’s slump has just correlated perfectly with any graph of the that decline.
ironically enough, even during this period, he seems to have improved slightly in making runs forward and knowing when runners are needed from deep. unfortunately, these moments are few and far between. but these moments are ALL he is giving us.
i get your point about fabregas, 17 is too young to play every game. although i must add he is not showing signs of flagging, and importantly, against chelsea he grew stronger as the game went on. you would expect it to be the other way round if fatigue was becoming an issue
vieira still seems to command amazing from his team-mates.he must be some training ground player.
December 21st, 2004 at 12:42 pm
respect, sorry, still seems to command amazing respect……..
December 21st, 2004 at 1:08 pm
Greengunner
You made several good points. Yes you did not flame Flamini - my mistake & my apologies. We do agree that he was MOTM
December 21st, 2004 at 1:25 pm
I am not sure sure about the precipitous decline over the last 3 years on Paddy… and I don’t truly expect him to reach the lofty heights that he once played at EVERY match… but I do expect him to get back to the hard tackling, dominant midfielder that controls a match. He can dominate most teams in the EPL… we’ve come to expect it.
The fact that his teammates hold him in such high regard, to me, speaks VOLUMES. The players know he can get back to his best, and help lead our charge for the title and CL…
Obviously, I hope… as YOU do… that come April/May… I am tearing Arsenal America apart with sharp wit and criticisms of all the folks that have doubted Patrick Vieira. I AM taking names!!!
December 21st, 2004 at 1:58 pm
so do i mate, so do i. i’ll happily put my head on the chopping block if come april or may we are retaining the title with paddy displaying some semblence to his previous best.
i am sure this argument will rage on throughout the season, as will i am sure the argument for phillipe senderos starting ahead of toure.senderos i feel is a great talent. toure is still doing a good job but i feel senderos will be great for us. but thats another story. lets all pray for vieira, together we can make a difference!
December 21st, 2004 at 2:37 pm
I never said, don’t use him, I said, only sparingly and off the bench. If Edu stays and/or Silva comes back, he shouldn’t be used much. Had we been full strength this season he wouldn’t feature at all except the league cup and possible against a weak side in the FA cup.
I’d also say use Lupoli off the bench…sparingly…in games like that. He’s a true fox in the box.
December 21st, 2004 at 2:52 pm
A few comments. First, Clichy is not a left winger, he’s a left back. He was played out of position. Its not surprising he didn’t link up well with Henry. But we had no choice.
van Persie. He is learning. He must learn that he won’t have time on the ball and he will be pushed off the ball and don’t look to the ref for fouls or sympathy. In time he’ll learn and he’s cutting his teeth in games like these.
Vieira. Not up to his standard. I wonder too what we could do with the 20 million pounds or whatever it was but he’s with us now and we have to deal with it. He’s been with us since ‘96. Lets see how he is the rest of the season. He can pull great performances out of a hat at times. Its much too early to give up on him. He’s much too good of a player and he deserves it from us.
Flamini played great. Not his fault. The team around him were lackluster. You don’t form a midfield partnership in one game. It takes time.
Pompey. They are an in form club that has been taking points off everyone, big boys included. They got a draw at the same Anfield where we lost. So it wasn’t a poor side we were playing at the time. Everyone gets up for us.
Finally, Cesc. At his age and built he simply can’t take the punishment of that position all season. Clubs will start focusing on tackling him hard. He needs to get bigger physically. Use him off the bench, possilby start against weak sides. But use him sparingly. Center mid is the most physically challenging and grueling position on the pitch, where hard challenges and tackles are the norm. Until our center midfield situation is properly sorted we need to protect Cesc as much as possible.
December 21st, 2004 at 3:31 pm
there is no doubt that fabregas compliments arsenals attacking style very well, but against portsmouth, where we used more “industrious” midfielders in flamini and vieira (yes he hasn’t played well this season but he remains an imposing physical figure), i also noticed that we coped a lot better with dead ball situations, both defensively and attacking.
It is a department that still can be and needs to be improved but the improvement against pompey may have been towo workmanlike midfielders inthe centre of the park. I’m not saying it is the only reason as there are other factors (i think almunia had a cracking game and so did the defense, particularly sol), but this could be a one of the reasons.
Just a thought to ponder
December 21st, 2004 at 8:02 pm
Josereyes,
Thanks for your compliment and no apologies required mate. I am sure that Flamini along with Cesc will perform even better as the season progresses. I can sense it from the way the play. They are really hungry. If only the other players are this hungry, there will be no doubts about the treble….
December 21st, 2004 at 8:10 pm
AG, will agree with your comment if Pat is back to his normal self. We need at least one good midfielder who can pass the ball forward splitting defences. Flamini, Silva are not that good in this area, as they are basically defensive midfielders. Edu was okay but I am sure he will leave. So we are left with Pat and Cesc. If Pat does not improve, even if we have full strength, I am afraid we will have to use Cesc more often than what you project.
December 21st, 2004 at 8:22 pm
Stag,
Personally, even though if we miss out on some titles, if Pat can apply himself to the job with the passion and hunger that he used to have in the past, you can swear, tear, curse me over this website and it will all be music to me. Reason - If Arsenal gave it all and some one beats us, most sportsmen including myself will not be upset that we lost, but will say - yeah we gave our best, but the opposition was the better team and deserved to win.
We have all debated that Arsenal is the only team that can defeat Arsenal. I am a great believer in that. If we all play with pride, passion and as a team, I know that we can do the treble. What we want right now is 2 things and that is back-to-back league title and the extremely coveted CL.
I think last year was the best year for our CL. Anyway that’s past. This year, I am for sure that we can win the CL. So we need Pat back to his best. Though I may write not-so-good things about Pat, my heart always tells me that next game he will come good.
December 21st, 2004 at 8:41 pm
Americangooner,
You are spot on with all your comments except the last one. If you have watched Cesc play, he is not the kind of midfielder who runs with the ball, looking to pass, when opposition is hot on his tails. Only in such cases he may be tackled and injured. The beauty about him is that 90% of the time, he receives passes at least 10 yards from the nearest opposition player (positions himself well) takes a second or less to look around for options, while receiving the pass, and quickly but with great precision passes the ball forward, so it is impossible for opposition to tackle him. So to have this kind of talent in Arsenal is great and we should use much more of him if we want to win games. Against Chelski he just grew stronger as the game went by. I think every week 90 mins is not a big problem for him. When CL kicks off and if you have to play like 5 games in 13 days kind of schedule, yes, he will require a break. The demerit about him is his lack of height when comes to set-piece defending and his ability to track back and win possession is below par when compared with other players.
So in my opinion Cesc, due to the way he plays football, will not get injured unless someone tackles him very bad and very late. And as we are not playing Manure anytime in the near future, I guess he should be quite safe.