We all know the names , the faces, and the stories so what do you think of Manchester United? Of course, this is a huge match. The results securing second or replacing the one who pressures Chelsea. No need for me to try and introduce most of you to a club that some probably have seen more than the Gunners. So, to get things started, I will try to examine the change of play for the Devils and what it means to this match.
I’m not afraid to say, though as blasphemous as it may be, that I loved to watch ManUtd. Perhaps not the sexiest club on the pitch, they still exemplified the phrase, “the beautiful game.” Moving forward with pace and precision they passed well and shot the ball even better. Defense managed to start the counter from deep in their own end, but it was the midfield that reigned over most teams in the world. They dominated domestic play and had success in the Euro realm. Now it seems they are just a load of thugs, a collection of the worst names in the game.
Leeds had relative success against the Gunners in years previous to their relegation. I’ll never forget Viduka shrugging off Adams for an 18 yard game winner at Highbury. I always thought that the Leeds players got into the head of the Gunners and kept them from the concentration needed to play Wengers precision game. I feel that Ferguson has adopted this thinking and it appeaedr in the Gunners match at Old Trafford. Thugs like Smith, RVN and Rooney, diving and manipulating the referee. Others raking the ankles of the Gunners players after the ball had left. This physical brand of football was not in the ManUtd playbook up until recently and I don’t know if it’s desperation or the players who were brought in.
Many claim that Fergie is off his rocker. Some say it was the lose of Ferdinand that caused the defense to use whatever means to dispossess. Still others would claim that I am just a bitter, typical Gunner fan that see’s only what’s bad in other clubs. Sure, I’m a “homer” but I usually keep quiet about the tactics of other clubs. This was a club that played a well-executed style that now resembles a rugby squad.
So, have I lost it? Am I watching another club? Your comments and predictions are needed.
My prediction is 2-1 the Gunners on a late Henry PK.
27 Responses to “Manchester United- What do you think of them?”
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January 31st, 2005 at 12:33 pm
KYGunner… don’t think you’ve lost it at all. Its pretty evident that the Manchester United of the Treble year is gone. Some of their great players are still there, but older and less effective. There is a new infusion of talent. I still think they are very good, but they are no longer head and shoulders above the rest. They are probably 3rd in talent in the league, and thats where they currently sit.
Its a major match for both Arsenal and United. A draw is not going to cut it for either squad, if either of us have ANY hope of catching Chelsea. Conversely… the winner could (will need) to catch lightening in a bottle and virtually RUN the table and win almost every match remaining. BOTH teams will need the other to BEAT Chelsea come April. (Arsenal and United play Chelsea back to back).
I’d like to think we’ll prevail. All hands on deck. All systems go.
Arsenal 2-1 sounds about right to me.
January 31st, 2005 at 1:01 pm
One man will be most important in this game, and could decide the outcome. That one man is Patrick Vieira. As with any tough games, the midfield is often where it is won or lost. Plus, his ability to instill a mental strength as captain is of the utmost importance. This is his make or break game for me. Can he dominate without fouling? Can he service the ball to our forwards instead of passing back. All the marbles, Paddy. What say you?
Giggs is on fire. Scholes is on fire. Rooney is coming back into form. RvN is a returning inspiration. Smith is contentious and supremely dangerous in the box where we are traditionally weak, especially with Cygan. Both Giggs and Ronaldo will be crossing like crazy looking to exploit our weaknesses in the air. Don’t think they haven’t replayed the Bolton game over and over in their minds, but that could work to our advantage.
On our side is that they’ve been having keeper woes. I would even rate Almunia and Lehmann higher than Carroll or Howard at this point. Henry and Freddie could make it horrible on them, with long rangers a real possibility from all takers. However, I think 5-touch passes into the 6 yard box are more likely, though.
And I DON’T foresee a thugging. I think both managers are out to prove that they are a class side. ManU battled fairly against Chelsea, and got the better of them if not for a sleepy keeper. They will come to beat us at football. I really don’t think the bravado will amount to much. Diving, on the other hand, could get someone sent off in both camps.
MENTAL STRENGTH. A pair of clean sheets has helped. Come on Paddy, LEAD US and win our hearts.
I want to say we’re going to stuff them, but there’s too much in it personally, regardless of title contention, for either team to open up and run it out without provocation. However, goals will come. So, my prediction: 2-2. No controversy. Just tough, exciting, cup-tie football.
January 31st, 2005 at 1:13 pm
Hi, I’m a United fan who occasionally browses this site, amongst others, to get an idea of how Americans think about football (I’m English).
I think your article is partially correct, in that we’ve certainly declined from the standards of the team that dominated in the 90s, although not drastically so, and are slightly behind you and Chelsea in terms of overall quality. We still play to a high standard, but the tempo of our game has slowed and the football we play now could probably be described as “effective but sometimes dull”, which isn’t something you would have said about previous Ferguson sides.
Whether we get back to the pinnacle we reached in the treble year and the following season depends on who SAF buys to replace the aging core of the side, ie Keane, Giggs and Scholes who probably have a max of 3 years left to play. If he gets it right, we have a solid defense and some world class youngsters who will get us back to the level of a top European side. It won’t be easy, but I trust Fergie: like it or not he’s a shrewd manager who knows how to win.
Calling us a “load of thugs” is a bit strong though. Yes, RVN’s tackle on Cole was awful and Reyes took a few fouls (not as many as Ronaldo though), but I can’t think of another game we’ve played where things have been that bad. Everything United do is intensely scrutinised in the media and almost every week I see other clubs get away with the same things that we’ve been repeatedly crucified for. The balance of decisions tends to even out over a season and I’ve seen Arsenal benefit a few times when they haven’t deserved it.
Looking forward to tomorrow, hopefully it will be the high quality match its being hyped up to be. Too close to call IMO, but my extremely biased prediction is 2-1 United
January 31st, 2005 at 1:13 pm
For Once I agree with Stagg.. What do I think of United? As a football fan in love with Arsenal all I can say about United is, they were a good team like Liverpool but lost the plot for not been the No. 1 club in England. The rest is history..
I am big enough to behave like an adult not like SAF and some of the so-called Arsenal and United fans. Like most fans will I turn up to watch a good game tomorrow, enjoy beating United for 3 points not 12 points and come thursday I will be looking forward to the next game. No Excuess, Buts and ifs whatever the results is.
Please I hope no one comes here tomorrow with any excuses whatever the scores are. I love this web site but is losing some of it good post and articles cause too many people keep coming here with any excuses they can think about. Is getting silly of late and as Stag once said sometimes he read them and don’t bother to reply.
Let get back to the old ArsenalAmerican were men with knowledge about football agree and dis-agree. I know a lot of people I have met on this site almost 3 yrs ago agree with me here.. Everyone is welcome but some of the comments are just plain silly and nothing to do with Arsenal, no facts just football fiction.
I want my Arsenal America back Rick. You and Andrew have done a great job and hope we stay strong as a web site for good football debate not just for factless cheap shots.
January 31st, 2005 at 1:21 pm
You welcome Sir, like the other Chelsea fans who log on to talk about football.. I hope we have more United and Chelsea fans for a good debate.. I agree with you on points and hope the better team wins tomorrow. I am sick of the hype and all the crap talk whiles Chelsea is running away with my title.
3 nil to the Arsenal but come back again. That is what football is all about. I can even work with a Spurs fan so you are very welcome so far as you know your football.
January 31st, 2005 at 1:23 pm
This will probably sound blasphemous to other Man Utd supporters, but once upon a time, I had nothing but respect and admiration for Arsene Wenger. Hen had class; he had intelligence; he had a certain aura around him that just made every fan secretly wish that he managed the team they supported. There was even a time when I wished that Sir Alex would retire and we could have a manager like Mr. Wenger. Those days are long gone…
It’s ironic how a supporter of a team that displayed one of the ugliest scenes of thuggery ever seen on live television (remember the scenes at Old Trafford last season?) has the audacity to call Manchester United a team of thugs. It’s amazing how much Arsenal get away with cheating (remember Robert Pires’s and Ashley Cole’s dives). It’s amazing how Mr. Wenger can’t see his own player’s dirty tackles, dives 10 yards from the touchline but can still manage to have a bird eye’s view of another team’s so called kicks and dives at the other end of a pitch . It’s amazing how many times we’ve all seen Arsenal players whinging, surrounding and intimidating referees when decisions go against them, and yet they accuse United players of getting referees to favour them. Have you by any chance seen the number of blatant penalties that United wasn’t awarded over the past 4-5 games? Then again , how can I expect a fan who stands up for a team that has a blind manager, to see otherwise. The tough Arsenal team of the 80s and 90s must be cringing every time they see players like Thierry Henry, Sol Campell and Ashley Cole cry like babies when they’re tackled. What a pityful sight….
I’m not denying the fact that United has recently become more aggressive in their approach towards certain teams with flair, but didn’t Arsenal do the same in the past when they had defenders like Tony Adams, Nigel Winterburn, Martin Keown? Have you seen how many times those old war horses kicked their opponents around the park? Have you seen some of the nastiest tackles Patrick Viera committed by Arsenal over the past 6 years? We’re no angels and we certainly don’t claim to be, but why can’t Arsenal’s manager, players and fans just get on with it and stop pretending to be innocent victims of some conspiracy against their team? It’s quite simply pathetic. Maybe it’s time for Arsenal Football Club to change it’s name to Arsenal Softball Club.
It’s a man’s game my dear friend, so take it like a man and get on with it.
January 31st, 2005 at 1:26 pm
Yes Stag,
You will have my tickets if we win the title..
January 31st, 2005 at 1:30 pm
well… if you have ticket(s), as in TWO…
then I will happily sit next to you as Paddy lifts the trophy… a long shot, yes… but you gotta believe sometimes!
January 31st, 2005 at 1:30 pm
Class post. Thanks for the perspective.
January 31st, 2005 at 1:38 pm
This is quite interesting.
When I hear about players “surrounding and intimidating referees”… I certainly do NOT think of Arsenal. I think of Manchester United.
I think the first United supporter has alot sense and was obviously less biased.
Play the game… forget the bullsh*t and the antics. With crying like this knucklehead is doing… perhaps they should be called Womanchester United.
GAME ON. May the best team win… and go on to scare the hell out of Chelsea with a good run down the stretch.
January 31st, 2005 at 1:47 pm
The shit of all shit…no more comments…O yeah, their coach is a pig and looks like one too!!!
Gunners 3 United 0 (Feb 1st 2005)
January 31st, 2005 at 2:20 pm
Good post. Hopefully we will see an entertaining match where the team that plays the best football wins. Gooners 2-1
January 31st, 2005 at 2:38 pm
Gutless Lurker, true, I too would love to see some toughness back from the Gunners. But please don’t tell us that we should play like “men” and be physical like what United did to us on Old Trafford. WHY?? Simply put - if we tackle the United players like they did to us, I fear a few of our players wouldn’t remain on the pitch. United, of course, wouldn’t have that worry. But we? The dirty Gunners as Sir Alex once claimed? Playing against the 12 men United is already difficult enough, I sure hell wouldn’t want ourselves to be down to 10 men.
January 31st, 2005 at 3:50 pm
…have you ever seen a fight between two children, both saying that the other started it, but one clearly giving away they are more at fault cause they get overly defensive and comment on the other’s behavior almost exclusively?
For me, its simple, Andez. Remove Sir Alex Ferguson and 99% of the problem goes away.
Now let’s play football.
January 31st, 2005 at 4:00 pm
Can’t share your enthusiasm for English he-man virtues (thuggey and stiff upper lips). I was bored rigid by the old Arsenal but find the new one a joy. But then what I most value in footballers is intelligence, elegance, skill. Which is why can’t stand watching United games - where’s the pleasure in brutality, in thugish players hoping to wreck each other’s careers? Rio is terrific and Silvestre is OK, but the Nevilles, Keane, Rooney - Yuk.
January 31st, 2005 at 4:29 pm
Now this is why I’m a football fan. An excellent post with perspective from the other side of the fence. No bashing or name-calling, just facts. I’d agree with much of what was said both in this post & the parent post. Let’s come out for a good match and may the better team win. If only we could AW & SAF to quit their mud-slinging and get back to managing their team instead of the media. I see 2-1 to the Arsenal & an excellent match.
January 31st, 2005 at 4:39 pm
Watching the way Van-Diver celebrated his goal against us following a cheated penalty from his teammate, it remains the most SICKENING image I ever seen as a football fan for two decades.
Premiership title or not, beating Man Utd alone will make my day.
January 31st, 2005 at 4:48 pm
Scott, man u is probably the only team i hate with a passion!
January 31st, 2005 at 4:57 pm
I was at Cardiff at the Charity shield where we played beautifully against ManUre. I saw the dreadful match at Old Trafford on the tv. I will be in the Northbank tomorrow night. My worry is that that ManUre will beat us up.As we seem to be pretty wobbly at the moment they cold just kick us all over the pitch . It depends on Arsenal’s resolve and having a good ref. I hope Mr poll is up to it. I do think that they play thuggish football and for reasons beyond me seem to get away with it. Shall have a stiff drink before the match and hopefully a celebratory one afterwards but i do feel on present form that the odds are against us unless we can outwit and outrun them
January 31st, 2005 at 5:15 pm
With the exception of Solskjaer’s reaction to an elbow that never hit him and Sol having to miss the 2003 title run-in, the difference between Arsenal and ManU when it comes to diving, dodgy refereeing decisions in head-to-head matches, managers defending/ignoring the indefensible, intimidation, etc is probably pretty even during the Wenger era — until Van Nistlerooy enters into the equation. To clear things up for any Manure lurkers that can?t quite see Arsenal fans? perspective, it has been his cowardly studs-first late tackles and subsequent diving and playacting that are clearly the flashpoint for fans and players alike. Without his gratuitous antics, dating back to his first season in England, and the spineless refereeing that let’s it go on there would be little bad blood between the teams and ManUre-Arsenal games would still be a joy to behold, like the FA Cup semi final replay in 1999. Let Phil Neville embarrass himself with a few late tackles, etc. Does anyone really care? (Maybe Scholes? blatantly knee-high tackle on Reyes in the FA cup semi final last year was also cheating a bit too far, as the boy could hardly run the rest of the match.) But RVN has no honour and no shame. He is an offence to English football and brings out the worst in people. With him in your team you cannot criticise any one else?s players for any single incident without looking completely, stupidly, boringly hypocritical.
To boot, I say f*ck off to any manure supporters who think arsenal cannot handle the rough stuff. It is not their preference, and it gives Manure a bit of an advantage (as it does any team in any sport) but the Arse won the league at Old Trafford as the tackles were flying in. They put Manure out of the FA cup when Giggs missed a sitter amidst same. Even this season’s loss at OT was not down to physical intimidation. Sure refs shouldn’t let players run the risk of medial ligament damage, but Reyes was still playing well enough. Despite Henry inexplicably moping around the pitch Arsenal were easily good enough for a draw were it not for Mike Rielly. For an English international to cheat a fellow international that day really sealed it for me as to how low Van Nistlerooy and Ferguson have dragged their club.
January 31st, 2005 at 7:26 pm
Well said Icky-mon! I agree with u 100000 percent!!
All the time, I never said any bad word of players like Roy Keane, despite the fact he’s a easy target for non-Man U fans to hate. The man is tough, and from time to time stepped over the line. But well, at least Keane will take it as he gives. And he’s not a cheat.
Van Nistelrooy, on the other hand, is always the central figure on every controversy, but always came out of it making himself looking like a victim. Cheating and diving are starting to become the norm in today’s football world, but NO ONE could come come comparing to Van Diver. He turns CHEATING into an art.
Had Van Nistelrooy not playing with United, and he’s not Roy Keane’s teammate, I wonder how the treatment he would get from Keane…. Only if we still had Martin Keown…
January 31st, 2005 at 8:43 pm
Thanks for the positive comments guys. I won’t post too much around here as you’d quickly get bored of me ranting on about United.
One thing I will say though is that the league isn’t over by a long way, and I’m always surprised and a little annoyed when I hear United and Arsenal fans conceding the title. Yes, 11 points in 14 games seems like a lot to make up, and Chelsea look unbeatable at the moment, but confidence is a fragile thing, especially when put under pressure, and it only takes one bad result or an injury to a key player to derail the runaway freight train.
Such massive turnarounds are hardly unprecedented and are in fact quite common, for instance United making up 12 points on Newcastle, Arsenal catching United in 97/8, United achieving a 13 point swing against Arsenal two years ago. Even this year, Arsenal have lost 15 points to Chelsea and 10 to United in a 15 game run, and there’s absolutely no reason why the same can’t happen to Chelsea. Wenger and SAF both know this and are born competitors who, despite what they say to the media, will never give up on the title until it is all but mathematically beyond reach.
Obviously I hope you don’t win it, but keep the faith!
February 1st, 2005 at 12:01 am
When Arsene dropped the ‘everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife’ line last year it was all over. We had humiliated them on and off the pitch. This year it has been different, Ferguson looks genuinely drunk on many occasions after games and I wonder if we are seeing another Brian Clough here, just cos you only drink red wine does not mean you are not a p1sshead.But why does Arsene keep rising to the bait? We still punch way above our weight, we are still thought of as a club that with limited resources is respected if not feared in England and Europe. Utd on the other hand have laid out loads of cash and will still end up with nothing. It is going to be a monster game between 2 huge clubs and we should just sit back and enjoy it. Remember, Utd got relegated and still pulled in 60,000 so they are not all prawn sandwich eating, Surrey living,glory hunters. How many would we have if we got relegated?
2-0 Gooners cos when all is said and done there is class and there is world class and TH is the only one on the pitch who has it.
February 1st, 2005 at 2:50 am
Well said. Football is a game and things happen but some of these excuses and crap talk just getting silly and some of these people have no cure of football or even kick a ball before..
I’m hoping for a good game and a better debate afterwards not the childlish ones going on here.
February 1st, 2005 at 2:56 am
I agree but you have to be honest and say Chelsea are playing some wicked football. I remembered last season. We won games whiles playing crap at times and that is what I think of Chelsea watching them on Sunday. They were not good but had the spirit and winning way as any good team.
Arsenal and United have a long way to go. Will always be a gunner but have to live in the real world. I hope we beat you today and go on and win the title which is possible but can’t see it for lots of reasons.
But will be there to support the guys.
February 1st, 2005 at 2:59 am
Andez you might hate United but I think you over playing it here..
I can show you 6 games from the last 7 yrs which will make any football fan sick. Is part of the game now sad but true.. Sportsmanship and the includes Arsenal and the rest of the 71 league clubs.
February 1st, 2005 at 3:05 am
Hmmm,
You right but remember them days men used to play football not girlie.. I always think of Ian Wright and P Schmeichel them days.
I blame all the crap on both managers and some girlies footballers both teams have at the moment with a few girlie foptball fans.
I have seen some great days between the 2 clubs about 6 yrs back. Men get on the field and play football. Shake hands go for a drink like nothing happen on the field.