Feb 25
Very good story at The Times Online by Tony Cascarino.
Basically he calls Patrick Vieira, and most of the Arsenal players out. Now this isn’t some blowhard journo, this is a former player. He doesn’t go over the top, but he lays it out there.
He echoes the sentiments many, including myself, have been asking for a little while now. Is Patrick a good captain? No. Does Arsenal have a true leader a la Tony Adams? No. At times does the club seem more interested in winning with style than just winning? Yes.
16 Responses to “Time for the players to take a look in the mirror”
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February 25th, 2005 at 10:21 am
Interesting piece.
But Vieira was a wonderful captain and leader when we went undefeated last season. He flirted with Madrid again… no he is crap.
Was Bergy a good captain last week… getting sent off and suspended. You are only as good as your last few performances for MOST people.
Tony Adams. He wasn’t here last year. Players / Leaders like him don’t grow on trees. They are RARE. Tony Adams is NOT walking thru that door… and if he did, he’ll be gray and old. GET OVER IT!
We ARE interested in playing ARSENAL FOOTBALL. No, its not the gritty 1-0 to the Arsenal of yesteryear. Those days are OVER. Its HISTORY. We didn’t play that way last year. We will play with style as long as Wenger is here. Long may that be.
Do we have defensive shortcomings? YES
Do we need a keeper? HELL YES
Do we need the star players to be more of an example and leaders for the young players… HELL FREAKING YES.
But, we are what we are. Its not changing anytime soon. And frankly… I would never want to go back to punting the ball down the field and praying for a 1-0 win. We’ve got work to do. Wenger has work to do. We need to get some new players in here… but there are MANY MANY MANY teams that would change positions with us in a heartbeat.
February 25th, 2005 at 10:22 am
When it comes to motivating myself, sometimes, rather than telling myself that I have faith in my potential, that there are many others worse than me, that I can be very good (which is very Wengerly)- I tell myself I am sh*t rite now, I have no excuse for my current situation and I MUST get better.
The same goes to my most beloved club. Sure, some players can’t take in harsh words and flying boots from their manager, but neither do all players can be motivated by the ever-diplomatic manager who always find excuse for his players’ failure to perform. Finger pointing and lame excuses has been our culture lately. Some people call us bad losers.
Do I sound negative? Do I sound like glory hunter who couldn’t stick with his team when they are in deep sh*t? Do I sound so un-gooner? If I really am, I can’t really be bothered with posting anything coz lately, we have been talking about essentially the same thing over and over. Some people come to criticize about our defense and spoilt players, and some others come with the fact that we are still 3rd in the league, in the CL and FA competition. No change, on and off the pitch.
I only know that in my mind, just because you are a fan, and because you love this club so much, doesn’t mean you have to ignore the fact that your beloved Manager need a reality check and your ‘best players’ need some kicking in their a**.
Just because you always keep your faith, and because there was Anfield 89, doesn’t mean that you are buying the idea that with our current situation, without changing anything, we can beat Munich 2-0 at HIghbury. It’s two different thing.
Talking about faith, faith without action is nothing.
February 25th, 2005 at 11:00 am
Yes, that’s about the size of it. Agree 100% with that last statement. You can blather all you want about the situation but it’s only action that changes anything. As in life.
February 25th, 2005 at 12:11 pm
They’ve tended to find that rebound magic after a tough loss…i think that Southampton will be a proper warmup to take on Bayern again and do what it takes to win at Highbury in front of the home fans.
February 25th, 2005 at 12:11 pm
The whole article seemed to me to be another glowing piece about Keane written by a fellow Irishman and team mate and this after being subjected to Tommy Smyth raving about Keane for 2 hours on Weds which apart from him incorrectly indentifying any player in any incident is the most predictable part of any ESPN broadcast.
I don’t think paddy is a good capt but that is definately not our main problem this year. We don’t have the resources and that is the reason we are behind the two teams who have spent considerably more than anyone else over the past 2 seasons. We can ‘identify problems’ all day but we don’t have the money to buy the players to compete with our rivals.
As for Keane, he might be thought of as a legend by AF but the rest of the world sees him as a good pro with a couple of screws loose who never really did it on the international stage. He will be remembered by most for a couple of bad tackles and leaving his team in the lurch in Japan.
It is up to PV to regain the form that made him the best holding midfield player in the world and quite frankly a way better player than Roy Keane could ever dream of being.
February 25th, 2005 at 12:14 pm
“But Vieira was a wonderful captain and leader when we went undefeated last season.”
No, he wasn’t a wonderful captain last year. Not in my mind. Isn’t, never was, never will be.
Is there anybody better suited to captain Arsenal right now? No, I don’t think there is and that’s my point. Maybe Wenger needs to take that into consideration when looking for players. There are plenty of players that Man United could get that are better than Roy Keane right now, but he brings something that you can’t match in stats. Yes, I also think he’s a complete tool and a no class thug/punk. But he does do a good job as captain.
February 25th, 2005 at 12:29 pm
If he was a BAD captain last season… then how’d we do so well?
If he is the same bad captain THIS year… then he can’t be the reason.
He was either pretty good last year and we did splendidly and not so good this season and we are not doing so splendidly.
OR
It doesn’t matter what kind of captain he is… because it has no real affect on the team…
He either gets credit when we win (last year)
and stick when we lose (this year)
OR
He gets no credit when we win (last year)
He gets no stick when we don’t (this year)
Can’t be both ways.
February 25th, 2005 at 12:49 pm
Tony Cascarino is not an Irishman. He played for the Republic of Ireland by virtue of one of his grandparents (and even that, it turned out, was not a blood relationship).
Roy Keane will no doubt be a Man Yoo legend, but I think you’re right… as for him being a “Greatest Ever” sort of legend, I don’t think he’ll be one.
February 25th, 2005 at 1:04 pm
Shini_Chan..
Respect.. What a good post and looks like something I will write. I’m not going to spoil it by saying anytime you come down Arsenal for a game the drinks are on me.
The truth hurts and at the moment Wenger can’t handle the truth.
As my mates said on tuesday after watching that painful crap, nobody is saying Arsenal are a bad team but the Coach and some players are just killing us with silly excuses.
If not the media is the referee or United/Chelsea. We becoming bad lossers as I mentioned when we lost at OT and to be honest you can tell which team some fans support.
The winning team and can’t lived with the fact we heed to buy some good players and sell others.
February 25th, 2005 at 1:55 pm
Arsenal are just not cutting it this year. You can put all the reasons down to missing Bergkamp on the road in the CL and Gilberto for the majority of the season so far but I reckon it’s down to Wenger’s offensive style and how important that is in his mind over defence.
It isn’t a coincidence that now Quieroz is back at Man Utd, the defence is back to it’s usual solidity but you just wonder, who is coaching our defenders particularly on the art of defending set pieces. You didn’t need height to defend Pizarro’s 2nd goal (something that has been suggested by Wenger to be the case for our misgivings in this area).
Not buying a defender last summer or in January has cost us a hell of a lot. Last season we got away with hardly any injuries to our first team and even if we did, we had them replaced with proven quality; EDU / GILBERTO / VIEIRA with hardly injuries in the defense which we got away with.
Also, I’m starting to get sick of Henry’s head-down sulks and non-trying when things aren’t going his way (sorry I feel this way guys but I do, someone needs to tell him defending from the front means something, not just when you lose the ball Thierry!)
Not been good enough in the CL over the past couple of years due to Wenger not having a clue how and when to make good substitutions and change tactics in a match to change the game e.g. why take off Clichy when he was one of our better players & why not change the system of Ljungberg up-front and Pires on the right when that clearly was not working.
First time in years I have switched off an Arsenal match albeit for 5 minutes but still, it was that unbearable.
I have never seen Arsenal this CRAP in the CL. Whatever Arsene might say “I believe in the desire of my players”, I found it hard to believe how he can say that after such a toothless display. (I reckon we only had 3 shots on goal (none from Thierry)).
With a good, tactically astute no. 2, who can give Wenger suggestions regarding substitutions, defensive practise in the training ground and suggestions to BUY in the DEFENSE, this would help a great deal.
Finally, can the mighty Arsenal beat an average Bayern Munich? I soo want them to but comon, at the moment they can’t buy a clean sheet let alone keep one. There are too many reasons in the Arsenal team to say they won’t keep a clean sheet rather than they will.
Just cross your fingers and hope Thierry has a good night. Roll on Weds March 9th!
February 25th, 2005 at 2:32 pm
Sure it can be both. You can be a good player and not a good captain. When things are going well, as they did last year, I could be captain. The true measure of a Captain is how he responds when things don’t go well. In that area PV4 has come up short.
Oh yeah, and captains don’t flirt with other teams in the close season.
February 25th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
I’m not going to comment on vieira here because I think both sides are making some valid points. My beef is with how he views Roy keane. Conveniently he does not mention that for three seasons before the current one, Keane was virtually a non-factor in the premiership. Was the same great captain Cascarino is talking who walked out on his national team just before the 2002 cup? Yeah….I’ll stick to Vieira thanks.
February 25th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
In 2005… Captains and Coaches and Managers and Superstars flirt with MANY teams. Thats the way it works in today’s sports world. Its not isolated to Football or Arsenal or Vieira.
Its not the same as it was 20 years ago, or 10 even. If Liverpool don’t make the CL… we’ll see what Gerrard does.
I am not saying Paddy is a fantastic captain… he just doesn’t deserve half the crap he gets. I don’t agree with the scapegoating that goes on with the players. Win as a team, lose as a team.
February 25th, 2005 at 5:28 pm
I’ve said this more than a few times, Vieira is Moses. He can get us out of bondage and lead us through some trials and tribulations but won’t deliver us into the promised land (CL). We’ll win the vast majority of our games with Vieira. We’ll win the odd title now and then, but we’ll never get a dynasty or win the CL with him.
Every club has a winger or striker that goes down easy. But they all have a ‘hard’ man, their tough guy, usually the captain. Vieira will fall over easily against guys half a foot shorter and 20lbs lighter than him. Your ‘tough’ guy NEVER goes down easy. He considers it beneath him. Keane, Savage, Gerrard, Lampard refuse to do that. What message does it send to the opposition when you do that? That Arsenal are soft. They’ll take the easy way out since even their toughest guy dives. When Parlour and Keown left, the hardness left our club.
Our biggest losses of the last 3 years? This season 4-2 to Man Yoo at home, 2-1 to Chelsea in the QF and 3-1 loss to Bayern. Who was in those games? Our biggest wins in the last 3 years? Inter 5-1, 2-0 QF FA cup over Man Yoo. Who wasn’t there? The team had to rely on each other instead of one man to bring them through.
Wenger made him captain to keep him here. He’s the wrong man for the job if the job is a CL win. I know what to expect out of Lampard, Keane, Savage or Gerrard if its the 2nd half in the CL final. I don’t know what Vieira (or Arsenal) will come out of the locker room.
He’s great but we won’t be a dynasty with him.
February 25th, 2005 at 6:25 pm
Mr Rick Do you really think you are an Arsenal fan ?
What’s your problem with PV4 or our team.
Yes you have the right to critic and say what you want. You’ve been doing that for a while.
It’s becoming really an insane obsession to talk easily on the back of the players.
Your problem has nothing to do with PV4 or Arsenal. I bet you can’t enjoy a simple football game.
You may be writing ten articles per day in this blogs, but you really convince anyone you don’t have a problem that is interfering in your obsession in taking down to nothing our team and our captain.
Adams ? How many CL did he win ?
Adams a leader ? An emotional weak guy who let himsel and his team down?
Viera’s the best captain a football team can have.
He’s has a tremendous respect from his team mates (France or Arsenal).
When I saw this article in the Times, I was sure you will be the first to agree with Keane and cascarino.
You show your true face. You’d better go to Manure. Your life must be painfull because when I read it’s so negative and so dark as a fan thought I think you’ll help yourself by going to Manure Or Chelsea.
You’ll your great leaders and plan B, C,D…. or whatever.
It’s football., it’s not war. You don’t need a plan B.
You have 90 mn in game to make sure you plan help you get something. But nobody can win every years, every day.
I do accept critics, but when things have to be said let’s say it.
From you’ve shown you not qualify enough to say what you are sayning. It’s nonsense.
It’s a brainless thinking that help any Kane, Cascarinon, Ferguson, or Maonrih?ino unsettle our team.
You are not intelligent enough to know. Ther’s time for critics and critcs must be positive.
You always try to unsettle our team.
By the way, I know a Manure’s fan very happy with you Rick. he always check if you’ve post something.
He loves you Rick, that convince me that you must be hiding your game.
February 26th, 2005 at 9:53 am
Your criticisms of Rick and suggestions that he should defect to ManUre are utterly ridiculous. Perhaps it is you who should find a new board, sir.