Holy cow, too many posts to sift through. I’ll kick off a new batch with the following thoughts:
Wenger: A bit hasty to call for his ousting. I love how all of us complain about his lack of moves in the transfer market. Right, becuase if YOU were the manager you would have just called up another team, asked if you could have their international defender, written a check and it’s just that easy. Um, no.
Robin v. Persie: Dumb move kid. But in the first half he at least gave it a go. Got the ball and tried to put a shot on goal. That’s what was needed and too few others were willing to try that until the 80th minute. If you’re offering me a 2008 tandem of Reyes and van Persie I would take it every time.
Jens/Alumunia v. Taylor: That’s so cool how all you guys are at every Arsenal practice and can evaluate all three keepers, and thus know that Taylor is the best option. Do you guys really believe that Taylor is better and that Wenger is keeping him out for some reason?
26 Responses to “Arsenal v. Soton Post-Mortem Continued”
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February 26th, 2005 at 4:07 pm
I don’t remember anyone suggesting Wenger should be ousted. Disatissfaction doesn’t equal sack Wenger!
February 26th, 2005 at 4:52 pm
we are not exactly asking for john terry from chelsea are we? i mean even someone like sylvain distin, a solid no frills defender who i am beginning to rate more and more, is a better option than cygan and toure, if only better in the sense of aerial power(pretty big aspect of defending)
our defenders are not terrible by any means, but each of them lack a certain aspect of defending that lets them down time and time again.
toure can’t win a header, neither can cygan. cygan is too slow and not agile enough. toure is too herky-jerky and needs to more methodical and relaxed. cygan would actually go down very well in italy or spain as he is a very good reader of the game when he’s fully concentrated. toure as well.
i’ve said many times i do not rate stuart taylor, cocked up against valencia away 2 years ago, liverpool at home two years ago, and everton at home on the last day of 2002 double season. three errors enough for me. but at the moment he is looking the lesser of three evils and wouldn’t mind having a look at him again. having said that, leicester have sent him back to arsenal and i wonder why they did that?
vieira- he is now just a good player. no more no less.
February 26th, 2005 at 5:07 pm
A draw is not surprised considering our record against strugling. You could harry and Arsene have a civilised relationship.
This season will help us in building our team.
Senderos & Flamini both had a very strong game.
Senderos came in the very difficult time for the team. As a 20 years old this is not the best way to come in a team.
I am really pleased. When you see Senderos, you undestand why Wenger his manager didn’t bring in a new CD in last summer. He was injuried last year, but he’s back now. He should play with Sol for the rest of the season.
I think Taylor’s on his way for first team action may be after the bayern game. It’d be a bad idea to remove Lehamn befor the bayern game.
The manager might be thinking about Taylor as first choice. When you see Smith’s performance today, maybe Taylor could get a run. I don’t know. One think is sure. We need a keeper. I don’tknow what happen to Lehman. maybe the national team is disturbing him.
he was a better keeper last year.
February 26th, 2005 at 6:52 pm
Any talk of Wenger getting the sack is out of order! It’s so easy to blame the manager when things go wrong, but let me ask all those who can’t wait to kick him out to just think about where Arsenal were before he came along…..
We had just lost George Graham who was accused of pocketing transfer fees into his own bank account. We brought in Bruce Rioch whose only success was bringing Dennis Bergkamp to THOF, as he just didn’t see eye to eye with the directors and was fired after one season.
We hadn’t won anything for four years and the club was heading back to the days of the mid 70’s and early to mid 80’s where we would struggle to finish halfway in the table as well as getting knocked ou of the cups by some mickey mouse northern working man’s club from the old fourth division.
Then Arsene Wenger came along and transformed us into a worldwide franchise. How many of you Americans had actually ever heard of Arsenal before Monsieur Wenger came along? Not many of you I doubt.
In all my 37 years of following Arsenal from standing on the old North Bank at Highbury to watching them on Fox Soccer Channel did I ever imagine the likes of quality such as Henry, Vieira, Pires, Edu, Gilberto who would grace any World Cup tournament would ever don the famous red and white shirt that we all love so much.
We all have to thank Arsene Wenger for that.
With regards to van Persie, I just don’t know why we signed him as I remember when the rumours first came out that we were after him that we went to sign Reyes instead. I then read an article where Wenger said he wasn’t going after Van Persie as Reyes is a similar player to him. So why did AW sign after all?
With regards to Stuart Taylor…..Rick do you remember when he kept us in the title race after Richard Wright single handledly almost tried to de-rail our ambitions with some dodgy performances? I remember the game at Anfield where Taylor was the business keeping the likes of Gerrard and Owen at bay. If it wasn’t for the fact that he had picked up some injuries he’d have probably been between the sticks last season when Seaman retired and we wouldn’t be in the goalkeeping crisis we have right now with a crap German and Spaniard in our ranks!
February 27th, 2005 at 12:45 am
Nobody’s calling for Wenger’s ousting.
Does anyone know of any reputation Stuart has as a keeper that flaps at corners, charges out of his goal stupidly, and generally has a long and growing catalogue of errors to his name? Stuart hasn’t just played a few games. He’s played quite a lot, and there were never as many complaints against him as we have today about Jens Almunia. That should say it all. Arsenal keepers are not asked to do much, but when a keeper cannot even be trusted to pluck the ball out of the air, how bad does it get?
February 27th, 2005 at 6:31 am
Don’t just blame it on the keeper, just like you guys said, we do not have a defender who is a really good header besides Sol Campbell. So without someone to head the ball, naturally Lehman will have to either punch or catch the ball. Against Peter Crouch, nobody in the team can match him for height, it is only sensible for Lehman to come out and punch the ball. I think any goalkeeper will do the same. You just cannot stay on the line and wait for Crouch not to have a perfect heading. Try to do that against a tall player like Crouch and you are sure to get punished.
First thing is first, we need a good tall defender in set pieces, no doubt about that.
Maybe we can get Crouch for cheap when Soton goes down, so that at least Henry can find somebody to aim at during corners or set play. As I see it, arsenal corners is harmless and teams are glad to concede a corner rather than keeping the ball in play. And Crouch will help when we are defending a set play.
But definitely we need a good defender, no doubt about that. I see Toure as a Central Midfielder running up and down the field with good athletic ability but not as a true center back. With Sol Campbell reaching 30, we need a replacement now for the defence. We cannot expect him to be fit every game anymore as injuries is going to be a big factor.
February 27th, 2005 at 11:03 am
I’ve wanted to like van Persie since he came but never have. Yes he gets stuck in, which some fans admire but against him are:
1 Not enough promise; I see no sign he’s better than Jeffers, and, like Jeffers, when he gets frustrated by his failure he gets sent off.
2 He scares easy: when he first arrived he was involved in a car accident from which he fled before the cops turned up. OK, no one was injured as far as I know, but it’s not a sign of a strong responsible young adult.
3 No discipline, no team spirit to get sent off needlessly yesterday.
Sell him, I say, while we still can. Ali is back and Lupoli, and Quincy. Now those are promising players,.
February 27th, 2005 at 12:31 pm
Out of Topic: Chelsea 3 Liverpool 1
Liverpool scored an early goal, I thot I was going to see Chelsea losing for the 2nd time in a week. Dudek made great saves, Mourinho sent off to the changing room, I thot it was going to be the Reds day.
Heck, their wonder captain seemed to have sold his soul to the Blues, scoring an own goal in 80th minute. And in extra time, Chelsea got another two, all from set pieces (Gerrard OG was also a set piece situation). Hmm… talking about set pieces..
February 27th, 2005 at 12:36 pm
Liverpool have a BETTER record WITHOUT Gerrard, than they do WITH him on the pitch.
He will NOT be there next year. They will (and should) take the money for him.
February 27th, 2005 at 1:52 pm
What I find amusing is how everyone is piling on Van Persie while DB and Reyes seemed to be excused for what they did the week before. We now have 3 key players missing 3 games a piece for absolutely nothing.
Dennis[not for the first time] gets sent off as capt for another petty incident, Reyes takes a pathetic slap at someone and is out and VP basically confirms the fact that he is not the sharpest knife in the drawer and costs us 2 points.
We will pay these 3 approx $400,000.00 in wages for what? We were outmuscled by both Utd and chelsea and now suddenly we are up for it?
If Reyes wants a piece of the action then he should probably ball up his little fist and clock Neville who has been bullying him for the last couple of games. If Dennis wants to demonstate his conviction, how about putting a challenge on someone from a corner, if he had managed to get more than 2 inches off the floor he would at least redirected the corner that a completely unmarked John Terry scored from.
People are laughing at us at the moment and to tell you the truth I can understand why. We want no part of any physical challenges in the air but we barely can field a team next week because THREE players decided that they wanted to make a statement about their toughness.
February 27th, 2005 at 1:56 pm
Liverpool should not allow Gerrard to keep vieiraing them. Benitiez should take the money and send him running like we should have with Pat.
February 27th, 2005 at 2:35 pm
Except Gerard has been pretty up front since the start, unlike Vieira.
February 27th, 2005 at 2:44 pm
Can’t disagree with that, but unfortunately this has been a common complaint since Wenger first joined Arsenal. He seems to think that being friendly with the players and not blaming them for anything will keep them on his side. What has he got in return? 58 red cards and I don’t see any more loyalty towards him than other managers get at other clubs.They obviously don’t fight for him in the Champions League, rather take him for granted.
This season has proved to me that Wenger is not the be all and end all, and other managers could possibly do a better job if they were in charge of the “current” Arsenal team. But Wenger has created this team and deserves more time and a lot more gratitude. But when one day he decides to leave, I’m not sure he would be what one might call “irreplaceable”. It is a fact that if he were the manager of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea or a top Italian team, then under the same circumstances he would be sacked at the end of the season.
February 27th, 2005 at 3:57 pm
Everyones promising before they have to deliver. What makes you think that Ali, Lupoli or Quincy will be better than van Persie. I also like Ali but the guy is so injury prone I’m not sure he has a future with us. van Persie is still learning and while I agree he screwed up big time, some far more experienced players have done worse.
February 27th, 2005 at 5:24 pm
Actually Ello…
I have mentioned how STUPID Dennis’s actions were in the match against Sheff.Utd…
at least 3 times.
Dennis gets NO STICK from supporters. PERIOD.
He was the freaking CAPTAIN that day… and his idiotic move cost us dearly.
He gets NO STICK because he is not English either. Thats overlooked. He’s been a great fantastic wonderful player for the Arsenal. But it might be time to move on. He misses lots of matches due to injury… AND can’t fly to away matches in Europe.
These are big downsides.
Perhaps he’s taking up the roster spot of an English player!!!!!!!!
February 27th, 2005 at 5:36 pm
I like the Professor and think that his contribution to Arsenal will merit historical credit. I mean after last seasons glory now they?ve had a bad season but we can still be 2nd in the table and could still win some silverware as hard as it seems just now. Think of it this way: if every artist in the world produced a masterpiece every time they put paint to canvas there wouldn?t be museums because they would be pointless, damn if every great artist produced all masterpieces it would already be bordering on the absurd as it just don?t happen. I know because I?ve produced some masterpieces in my day but every single one of my works since my youth isn?t a masterpiece. Get real. I used to like Formula One racing until Schumacher won almost every race now I just ask what?s the point of watching. Do we really think our great team is going to truly win everything all the time and if we did then what would be the point of watching. Wenger knows and he?ll make every effort to fix it as it is also in his best interest. It?s not like being 2nd in the table is ?all hands loose ? abandon ship?! Jeez some of you are hard to please.
As for Van Persie, his mistake was trying too hard which resulted in the over zealous and thus reckless tackle. I?ve heard him talk about Arsenal / the boss and I think he just wanted to make an impact on the game, sadly it wasn?t exactly the impact anyone wanted a stupid mistake. I wish many others had his zeal to actually produce, what he needs is maturity and the ability to wait for the right opportunity. He?s a kid doing exactly what most kids these days do wanting everything now not seeing that patience can come with up with an equally great reward. I say we give him a chance to shine, his tackle wasn?t malicious it was just juvenile. In time we?ll see what kind of player he is ? shite floats so we?ll know soon enough or smell it anyhoo.
February 27th, 2005 at 7:58 pm
Gerard… Agree with you on Wenger.
Couldn’t disagree more on VanPersie.
Wenger TOLD HIM at HALF that its likely the ref would try to even it out. He had the yellow card. He told him NOT to get the red card. All he had to do is NOT FOUL STUPIDLY. If you can’t do that, you don’t belong on the field. It cost us the match.
February 27th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
I agree with you entirely that he should not have committed that foul - truly stupid. Like Wenger said I hope he learns from it towards playing in the EPL.
That said you know that DB10 shouldn’t have lifted his hand and Reyes shouldn’t have slapped and on and on - we all make mistakes. But I agree with you on this point.
Where I disagree is on who or why Arsenal lost the game. We should be able to play 10 vs 10 without concedeing a goal but we didn’t and that’s the crux of the argument. Arsenal lost 10 vs 10 because of poor goal keeping and sloppy defense. So what else is new in this season?
Anyway thanks for responding to my post I appreciate your thoughts and know that my response means the same in respecting you, which I do good sir.
Van Persie will probably hurt more than you and I can imagine and maybe he’ll learn he can’t win the game alone, it takes a team and thus consider his actions towards the team. In that he put his aspirations above the team, yes he did let the team down and the boss as could be seen on video. I hope he learns and then Arsenal will benifit also. If not then yes sell his arse.
February 28th, 2005 at 6:10 am
Dessapponted for not being anymore in the best position to win the league.
Except the Lehman, I am pleased with our defending.
Senderos did exactly what he was supposed to do. At his age and with little experience and give him 8/10.
I am very happy as the manager reacted to our defeat by moving things around in our defense.
We concede goals in the air because we’re a little bit short without Gilberto (6′3″), EDU or Sol(6′1′).
So Senderos (6′1″) has to come in to give us more height.
Kolo’s everything to make him a great CD but he lacks height and you never see him on free-kicks.
He’ll be a better right back or midfielder.
We draw, but except Lehman everything went our way. But GK does make mistakes and our biggest problem of the season lies there.
I can’t blame too match Van Persie. the referee’s supposed to react cooly. It’s not his job square things up when there’s red cards on one home side.
If the referee’s so scared he shouldn’t be a match official.
Van Persie deserved may be a red card on the first foult. Pruton also deserverda direct red on this brainless chalenge on Flamini.
England’s the worst referes among the five majors leagues in Europe. That’s a major issue and a real dsiavatange in CL. Players have to adapt to a different refereing and that change the commitment and agressiveness they demonstrate in the domestic league. WHen you look at english game sometimes you forget that there’s a referee on the pitch.
Kicking out opponents is the very praised attitude in England. Team like Bolton, Manure, Saints or others try to use this tactics when playing against us. It’s not football. Only really bad gambling referees will do it.
Every weeks referees make team win or loose very often in England than anyother major league I watch (german, spanish, italian and french).
It’s a shame.
A pathetic behaviour from the football autorities in England. Without change it’ll be difficult for english teams (clubs and national team) to do better in international stage.
Referes rae pace and peace setters on the pitch. When tackles fly around players get nervous and lost calm. Football’s their living. You acnnot ask a player to go for chalenge that might weel end his career. Nobody’s stupid enough to take it.
February 28th, 2005 at 10:11 am
Gerard Good post!
I agree 100% with both points. Van P. may still turn out to be a good player for us he just needs to settle down a bit. It certainly did not help, but he was not the cause for us to lose. If we can’t defend 10 vs 10 then why should we expect to win games? We need a major overhaul of our defense and of our defensive tactics.
February 28th, 2005 at 10:41 am
He WAS THE REASON we lost.
If his stupid act didn’t occur, we would have WON the match.
Yes, we didn’t defend a 1-0 lead with 10 on 10, but we haven’t done that well ALL SEASON. This makes it even MORE important NOT TO GET SENT OFF. This was a HORRENDOUS mistake on VanPersie’s part.
He might turn out to be a pretty good player… he has skills. But if he can’t control his temper and can’t keep from costing us a match, especially when we simply can’t afford to drop points, then we don’t need him.
I hope Aliadiare comes back and plays fantastic and it will pressure the VanPersie/Reyes types on the team to PLAY BETTER/SMARTER or be sent out.
February 28th, 2005 at 11:19 am
Van Persie’s sending off certainly contributed to the draw (not loss). But please, Stag, why do you find it so hard to accept that Arsenal may have major problems? You refer back to last season as “proof” of Arsenal’s strength, but as DannyT said, there is always room for improvement. You rest, you rust. Arsenal right now is sorely in need of serious revamping.
Oh and Stag, your way of jumping down the throat of everyone that disagrees with you, especially in that William Shatner-esque way of speaking [can you NOT CONTROL the sound of YOUR VOICE], is hardly conducive to serious discussion.
February 28th, 2005 at 12:51 pm
didn’t mean to jump down your throat, if thats what you felt I did.
I don’t believe Arsenal have major problems.
We are 3rd in the league… Alive in the FA CUP and still in the CL as well.
We have opportunity. Can we capitalize is the question.
An excellent goalie would solve alot of the problems. I could point to 5 matches where excellent goal-keeping could have won us a match. (Even with the defending we have endured this year)
So, no… I do not accept that we have major problems. I disagree.
If we have “major” problems, how do you rate the other 16 teams below us in the league? What do they have… horrendous teams with no hope?
Needing a keeper and 1 or 2 defenders is not major problems… it can easily be done in the off-season.
Players returning from injuries and having their form return (Sol, Edu, Gilberto) will go a long way to correcting things as well.
I don’t accept the sky is falling. Its not. Your expectations are so high for this team that nothing short of winning the treble is considered success.
February 28th, 2005 at 1:48 pm
I guess partly because he hasn’t yet done anything really good, whereas Lupoli and Quincy both have, despite having had fewer chances. But it’s mainly what seems to be his character - his panic, his aggression, his selfishness? Might change but I’d rather not risk it. Agree about Ali being injury-prone - I reckon he’ll leave in the summer but thank goodness we’ve got him for now.
February 28th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
Your thoughts on English referees have been on my mind for many years. When I watch Series A, quite often I find the skilful players like Totti and Del Piero given adequate protection by Italian refs but over in England, benefit of the doubt is often given to the defender - especially on penalty kicks. I know this is a very general statement but I think it has something to do with the English approach to the way the game is supposed to be played. On the other hand, IMO players like Totti will never flourish in the EPL no matter how skillful they are.
I am an advocate of EPL bringing in continental refs. This should help English teams when they play in Europe.
February 28th, 2005 at 4:40 pm
I’m not sifting through all these emails so I may repeat what’s already sent. As far as the game it posed a potential banana skin. It was not only after a big loss it was after a CL game and most clbus have a dip in quality in the league game aftera CL game even if they win it. Also our predicament was compounded with numerous suspensions and injuries.
That said, regarding van Persie. Yes he acted stupidly but its well known he has a temper. He was going to have a game like this at some point. You only hope its in a reserve game or while up 5-1 v. Palace instead of a must win game. He obviously needs to mature and I hope Wenger and/or his hero Bergkamp have a talk with him and tell him that the best response to anything on the pitch for a striker is to score or set up a goal. Anything else means the opposition has won the mental battle. Tell him to use his fighting spirit for goals only. Channel it in that direction. Tell him all great strikers do that, from Henry to Schevchenko.
On Soton’s equalizer. Crouch is 6′7″, why wasn’t our tallest player with the best leaping ability marking him? That player is Vieira. Vieira should have marked him or Lehmann should have ordered Vieira to do it. Cygan is 6′4″, an inch taller than Vieira but has no leaping abilities. I blame both Vieira and Lehmann for that oversight.
We need to decide on one keeper for the duration of the season. If its Lehmann, keep him, warts and all. Let Taylor get the FA cup games.