I posted a somewhat lighthearted article the other day, (Now that I’ve got my long term contract, I’d like a transfer!) and I must say that my attitude has changed a tad since then. All of this talk in the press for days on end, speculating about Reyes, Reyes being quoted as fancying a move to Madrid, etc… leads me to think– what the f*ck? Haven’t we learned to live in the now? If a player is contracted to a club until 2008, then why do we speculate where he will be in the next transfer window? I’ll tell you where he should be, AT THE SAME BLOODY CLUB!!
What has happened to bring about the death of loyalty? Would we as fans tolerate this sort of “wife swapping” at the international level? What if Henry decided he needed a change of scenery, and decided to play for Hungary? Moldova? You get my meaning.
I say all that to say this…if Vieira and
Reyes want to go, LET THEM! Don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya! I don’t say this to be disrespectful, I love these players. I love anyone who pulls on the Arsenal kit!! (OK, maybe not Cygan) But while I would bemoan their exit, I would rather have it be than have players giving 75%. They are both dynamic and full of skill, both at the club and international level. PV4 already has a world cup to his credit. Reyes has the future of a true superstar ahead of him. But I don’t want them here if they don’t want to be here.Their play will always be compromised. Look at Gerrard, when he scored the own-goal in the Worthless cup final. Is he already a Chelsea blue? I exaggerate, but the message is clear.
No original concept here– the downfall of pure football is the almighty $. Abromovich=Lucifer and Mourinho=Antichrist. How much chemistry does that side have? Skill, I’ll grant. They have one-upped Real Madrid. But it is a soulless, hollow victory if it is to be.
The Cole scenario is a horse of a different color. I think that he is vastly underpaid. I don’t advocate what he has done, by meeting with the enemy he has undermined his place in the hearts of the Arsenal Nation. Chelsea are not as bad as ManU to us yet, but I think they represent a much darker threat to the future of football. Playing for them is like marrying someone before you even get to know them. It’s Anna Nicole Smith marrying the 90 year-old fossil billionaire and claiming “love.” I would shun Ash if he left us for that, but shame on us for not locking him in.
I love this fooball club. I would tatoo the Arsenal crest on my scrotum. I don’t want to come across as disloyal, but I guess I’m an idealist. Good should always prevail over evil. Money should not be allowed to ruin the beautiful game.
If Henry, who is my icon, were to pull on the shirt of Manchester United– I would stop watching football. That is how strongly I feel about loyalty.
28 Responses to “A bit of Guile…”
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March 27th, 2005 at 8:35 am
I understand your frustration. But sometimes I feel that just because something we read from the press, we ASSUMED that our players aren’t giving his all.
Take Reyes as an example, I don’t know the report that he wants to leave is true or not, but from his performance on the pitch alone, I surely haven’t seen him giving just 75 percent like u suggested. Ok, he hasn’t lighted up the world I admit, but his WORKRATE has been outstanding. Take the recent Blackburn match, he’s one of our most hardworking players. I remember once after his attempt pushing the ball into the Blackburn penalty box failed, Blackburn started a swift counter attack, a Blackburn player made a perfect cross to the left flank, had the Blackburn winger recevied the cross, he would be going one on one against Lehmann… yet out of the blue an Arsenal player soared there and intercept the cross, at first I thought it was Clichy, yet as it turned out it was Reyes… I couldn’t believe it! He tracked back must be 3/4 of a pitch length coming back all the way from the opposite penalty box to our penalty box blocking the cross.
It’s the same as Paddy. Had him never pulled his weight on the pitch, we wouldn’t have been sitting 2nd on the table playing just with kids would we?
He played through pain against Man Utd, rushing back from injury. Some accused him cheating Wenger he’s fit while he’s actually not. Only that I wonder : if he’s recovered from injury, but not fully fit yet, and he went on to tell Wenger no he’s not fit and decided not to play, how the Arsenal fans would feel back then? Wouldn’t they accuse him being gutless, or don’t care about the club? Nevertheless, when our captain decided to play through pain against our biggest rivals, we loss, then he’s being accused of dragging the team down because he cheated the manager that he’s fully fit… I just can’t understand the logic…
March 27th, 2005 at 8:45 am
I think Cole’s not underpaid at all.
I do think Cole’s a little bit unerestimated. A good game against a teenager Ronaldo doesn’t make you the best left back in the world.
I wanted him because I do love him like any other arsenal player.
I am not part of that bunch of nationalist fans willing to reserve their higher ranking for their national born players.
Let’s face the truth. Without Roman Abromovitch around you would never heard Cole ‘tapping up” or “tapped up” by another english.
It’s Arsenal who asked to give Cole an increase in his wage.
We have Clichy why in the world we are to give 60.000 pound a week to a left back while our key strikers and players around the same.
It’s insane to ask the boad to offer Cole, and Viera or Henry or Pirs the same wage. It does not happen in this way in any club in the world.
Garry neville never asked for the same wage as Ruud, Rio, Keane or Beckham.
Neville’s been more usefull to both England and his club than Cole.
Viera didn’t ask to go this year.
You cannot treat him like Reyes. There two different situation.
Viera said a week ago he’s going nowhere, that he’ll end his carreer at Arsenal.
Pat doesn’t talk too much, but he doesn’t lie like Cole or Mourinho.
Reyes’ homesick and he talked too much too the medias. The club is ready to sell him.
Every’s ok.
By the way Senderos’s been great last night. What about that ?
Transfert talk are endless and agents are trying to sell their players. Sometimes the agent and the journalist are the same man.
Be carefull, don’t unsettle your team.
March 27th, 2005 at 9:48 am
did we accuse vieira of being gutless when he missed all the games before man utd? no we didn’t. what makes you think we would have attacked vieira. if the guys not fit, he’s not fit. fans are not that stupid.
its not as if arsenal fans were desperately crying out for vieira prior to man utd game, it was patently obvious from our form and man utd charity shield game that we could wipe the floor with united without him.
the argument that we needed vieira for physical presence doesn’t cut the mustard because a) he wasn’t fit so he wasn’t much help on that score b)the kicking was blown all out of proportion. it was accentuated because reyes is a big girls blouse. if kicking people was such a great tactic, why didn’t united use it against real madrid or ac milan. madrid’s midfield are hardly tough guys.
March 27th, 2005 at 9:55 am
Its a fact that United REGULARLY out-physical us in recent matches. It is a tactic that has definitely worked, as the results show. Cesc, Flamini and Edu are lightweights. They bring no physical presence to the match.
Wenger played Vieira. Its pretty easy to understand why.
March 27th, 2005 at 9:58 am
Latest Rumor has INTER MILAN interested
in bring Vieira back to Milan. Said we would seek about 16 million for him, which they can’t afford, so the names mentioned are TOLDO, DAVIDS, and EMRE.
How old is Toldo? He’s been a solid keeper for Italy, but I am curious about his age.
Emre is a good defender… Davids… again how old.
March 27th, 2005 at 10:03 am
as i said before, its a football match not grid-iron. there’s only so much kicking can get you and wasn’t vieira playing in all those previous games where that tactic worked? what diffference did he make?
edu a lightweight? 6 ft 2 and around 13 stone. god he ’s a real lightweight compared to paul scholes isn’t he, even fabregas at 5 11 has four inches on scholes.
if arsenal play well, i don’t care how much united kick, we win. united beat us in previous games because they took their chances and showed bottle. their tactics may have broken up our flow but its not as if we played well enough in those games for that to be a deciding factor.
March 27th, 2005 at 10:05 am
toldo pushing 33 or 34 now. davids 31. isn’t emre classy midfielder who set up martins at highbury for their first or second goal?
March 27th, 2005 at 11:23 am
Toldo’s on a free anyway, I think. He’s a wonderful keeper but taking a stopgap, even when he costs nothing, isn’t really a great idea? Surely we need a long-term keeper as soon as possible as all this chopping and changing isn’t good for the defence as a whole. Emre is good, but not the kind of player we desperately need right now - i.e. keeper, defender, striker. Also, why would Vieira want to go to Inter? He hated Italy, didn’t he? You may want to get rid of him but that’s something else!
March 27th, 2005 at 11:28 am
Mazza,
you should calm down and at look at the fact without this total lack of respect you seem to have towards the team.
It’s not only about Viera.
In OT, Viera did well, we could have win with a fairer refereing from Mike Riley.
Viera should be cheered for what he did to help the team.
Do you know that you can end your career when you play while you are not fit?
The player, I mean the professional player who does what Viera, Gilberto or Henry did, playing with injuries, commands respect or at least another analysis different from what you’ve been saying since a while.
It’s not a personal attack, it’s just a fact highlighted in all most of your comments.
We get bored as we’re all here to support the team, and not to give them stick because we’ve paid a ticket or a kit.
Fans too have some respectability when they come to a club. They are here to help win, to win you need confidence, and the fans besides their money, help build the confidence of the players and the team as a whole.
Giving ruthlessly stick to your players is by no mean an appealing behaviour from the fans. It’s destabilise the players and make them even worse.
Respect is everything because it helps you think with a less biased focus.
Give credit where it’s du.
I don’t think you show anything when the focus is always to give stick to our heroes.
Don’t forget even Cygan’s got some fans behind him and who care about him, support because we’re all human. You have to be lucky too in everything.
March 27th, 2005 at 11:44 am
im perfectly calm. i just have my opinion on patrick vieira and am perfectly entitled to express that on this site. if everyone agreed it would be a dull site.
you’ve mentioned that negative posts on this site will somehow transmit to the players morale. i doubt any of the players read this site and with that being the case it can’t effect them.
the only thing i can’t stand is booing players. now thats out of order. completely moronic. i just feel very strongly that arsenal will be better as a whole without vieira. thats all i care about, what will make us better. you think vieira is important. thats your perogative.
March 27th, 2005 at 11:51 am
A little respect
Thanks God the manager and the board are not stupid like some “journalist” and “fans”.
Patrick Viera is not going even for the ENTIRE INTER’S SQUAD.
He’s our captain and we are not a selling club.
We build our success and earn a lot of money to bring our club to the next stage, by playing football.
Nobody at Arsenal represents more The Arsenal Project than Ars?ne Wenger and Patrick Viera.
This is why he denied himself to fullfill a dream he had when he was kid: playing for Real.
AT that time Arsenal were not a dominant force in Europe to attract kids’ imagination.
Today all around the world kids dream about playing at Arsenal. Pat’s got his part of credit in that.
That’s why he stayed.
I thank him every day for turning down Real Madrid.
I had a bet on it. I was sure he’ll turn down Madrid at the last minute.
Why ? Because Pat always take his time to assess and judge the situation with all the data you can possibly have. He’s a born leader. He can lead without speaking loud. How many leader do you capable of that.
They all to cry like kids to scare, because the natural respect they impose is not enough.
Pat wanted to prove himself he could go to Madrid and that he could force Madrid to deal with him in his own way.
Like Zizou, Figo, Ronaldo and Reyes now, Madrid force all their prospect to DECLARE THEIR LOVE FOR THE CLUB before they make any official move.
Pat refused to do that, but Real was still ready to make a record move for him.
He’s happy now and he knows he’s fullfilled his dream. Get at a level where the”best club” in his early days could come and do everything to get him.
He enjoyed the fact to have the last word and the satisfaction to have made the right choice for himself by staying at Arsenal.
This is Pat. Like it or not.
I love Pat, and to me he is the best player in the world in his position.
He’s second to none.
He’s got his own style and his own values and I respect that.
If you cannot understand the dream of the kids, what can you do?
March 27th, 2005 at 12:28 pm
I think it’s commendable that paddy has played through the pain this year. Look to any sport, all of the greats have done it. Hell, I even do it in my Sunday league. I am not trying to be over-critical, I guess some frustration has emerged b/c of our recent form. I don’t suggest that PV4 or JR9 have been awful this year, just not overly fantastic. We as gooners have come to expect perfection (W26D12L0) and the prospect of finishing third with no silverware is appalling. I think we will hoist the cup this year, and second is definitely attainable.
I don’t want any of Madrid’s table scraps, ie- Figo, Carlos, etc.. I think Reyes is a splendid talent with a bright future and we should get the most for him if he is to go. Casillas is really the only talent that I would like to see in the Gunners side. As far as Vieira, the Inter rumours are the newest addition to the media frenzy. Toldo, Emre, ADRIANO— now that’s a trade. They can keep Davids. Could you imagine a strike partnership of Henry and Adriano? Without question, that would be the best in the world.
I guess what it boils down to for me is– I don’t want them to go, but if they want to we can’ t and shouldn’t stop them. It’s like a bad relationship, if the b*tch wants out then don’t hang on tooth and nail. No good can come from that. All I want is to see the side strengthened with the kind of players needed to regain our status as a top european club. Keeper, defense, striker. We deserve world class players. Let’s go out and get them, while developing our academy talent.
March 27th, 2005 at 1:11 pm
It’s clear now, that you can’t heard about Pat.
It’s your right to express and I have nothing against that. You’re being honest in saying as a waring for the readers.
But when you try to apply false analysis to defend your feeling it’s where things get bad, because you are not being honest.
March 27th, 2005 at 1:25 pm
agree with you mazza. indeed i think paul often projects his anger towards any who would dare criticise the team. so who is the angry one…?
as a hardcore, passionate fan of the arsenal for almost 30 years, i reserve the right to be critical of the team if i think they are underperforming. this nonsense that we are demoralising them is just plain rididculous.
if a player is injured he should not play period. he risks further injury, and could jeopardise the team. the idea that he is some gladiator because he played in pain is stupid. anyone who uses this argument should be flogged. think back to the 94 world cup final. roberto baggio hobbled around the pitch and did nothing of note the whole game. then he skied his spot kick. if sacchi had played someone who was fit, italy might have won that game. you trying to tell me there wasn’t anyone on that italian team that would have played better than a 50% fit baggio? bollocks. of course i also remember baresi supposedly being hurt, but he played well. though he also missed his spot kick…
March 27th, 2005 at 1:50 pm
exactly seanie. remember david beckham in world cup 2002 being slated for playing with injury. its not a heroic act. you are jeopardising your teams chances. who would have been better for man utd game, an injured vieira or flourishing fabregas? i don’t buy all this physical nonsense about fabregas being too frail.
March 27th, 2005 at 2:01 pm
paul i mean the man utd game. that game alone. if vieira had come back after gilberto and edu had been ruled out, then i would labelled him heroic, as he would have had no choice. i agree vieira has done a great job at holding our midfield together for most of the season.
March 27th, 2005 at 2:10 pm
Its a two way street.
You can slate Vieira repeatedly for everything he does or doesn’t do. I can give my opinion of the player and the man.
I don’t care if a player is 6′8″ and 200lbs… that doesn’t make him a physical player. Edu is NOT a physical player, he’s a finesse player.
Roy Keane, how big is he? PHYSICAL PLAYER.
You don’t have to agree with Wenger starting Vieira at OT. He could have scored 4 goals there and you still would slate him, so whats the point.
He started him for EXACTLY the reasons I stated. Vieira adds a physical and intimidating presence that NONE of the midfielders available have. Thats just fact. You don’t have to like it. Its a positive about Paddy, so you will deny it.
March 27th, 2005 at 2:13 pm
I don’t want Paddy to go period, Miranda.
But I was just commenting on the story I had read from ITV.
I saw the name Toldo, and thought… number one keeper! but how old is he was the main question.
March 27th, 2005 at 2:21 pm
i can be really low about and remind you that in the moments leading to rooney’s dive vieira gave the ball way twice for no reason in his usual half-asleep mode. without that, no penalty. just get that one out there.
if vieira had scored four goals and was still cruising around the pitch doing nothing in particular, i would still slate him yes. my whole argument is that he doesn’t use his supposed physical and intimidating presence at all. he’s turned into a pussycat compared to his earlier years. i blame all of that on the stupid referees who sent him off for nothing. every red card seemed to drain all the emotion and energy from his game. he’s become de-sensitised. he’s like a robot now. what happened to the old vieira who was all the things you’ve mentioned. his new mature and calmer approach has a came at a cost.
March 27th, 2005 at 2:32 pm
Fair enough but half the people on this site would happily take a dead sheep for Vieira (or Reyes or Ashley), it seems. I don’t want Inter’s aging cast-offs so let’s tell ITV we’ll consider Martins and Adriano maybe with their first-choice keeper thrown in.
March 27th, 2005 at 5:10 pm
During 90 minutes every player loose the bal at least once. Without lossing the ball it would basket ball.
Even Pele gave the ball away.
You are telling what you want about Pat, but you don’t care about the truth.
Patrick is the best in his position. What you think or say does not change the reality.
But if it makes you happy, then I let you go on your way.
Good luck
March 27th, 2005 at 5:18 pm
Mazza,
one game is not enough to judge a player coming from injury.
Viera’s last game was against Greece in Portugal.
Nobody could expect him to be at his top.
He did well to cope with the demand imposed on him.
We lost because we’ve been robbed while we’re getting the edge over Manure.
We could take a draw, considering the bad refereeing we were suffereing from the first minute..
We lost at OT not because of Viera, but because of Mike Riley and Manure disloyal and kicking tactics.
March 27th, 2005 at 5:23 pm
I have defended Paddy at every turn here on this site… still do. But if he wants to go this Summer, then I say don’t try to stop him. Sell him.
I know longer feel we can’t do without PV4.
If he stays, great. But we can’t have the Summer circus again. I don’t want the circus with Reyes either. He is very talented. If his head and heart are in Spain, cash him in too.
Ash. I DO NOT forgive Ash for playing a major part in screwing up this season for us. I don’t care whether he stays or goes. I prefer the 15 million he’d bring in and have Clichy take his spot. But thats just my opinion. He’s still a good player, but his behaviour was unacceptable on any level to me.
March 28th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
i would rather have a good player giving his 100 percent rather than a great player just prancing around the ground,having moderate commitment.
Real madrid is a case in point…there players just blame each other and expect the player to perform.
Anyway i do think Reyes will make a big mistake if he shifts there.real madrid has fickle supporters who turn there heroes into villians in a space of a season.Reyes can do well there maybe,but do u think he will get adoration of the crowd,like highbury.
and besides you do not coached by arsene wenger everyday.
March 28th, 2005 at 10:44 pm
stag i’ll agree that the ash saga has become a major distraction. but to say it is the cause of our bad season is stretching it a bit, don’t you think? we were already behind chelsea by 14 (?) points when this all came out. so how did this tank our season?
i will say again that we lost this season when we conspired to tie palace, soton, and wba in quick succession. before those games, we were still on top of the league.
March 28th, 2005 at 10:51 pm
yes, mike riley is a worthless referee. but we lost that game because we did not have the mettle to deal with manure that day. the whole team is responsible for that, led by the captain.
and can you really, honestly, keep clinging to the old “vieira is the best in the world at his position” after the year he has had? i think you need to add this qualifier….when vieira is at his best, no one is better. but he has hardly been at his best this season. and when he has been great, it’s only been in spurts.
sadly, he just is not as good as he once was, even if this still makes him better than most who play his position.
March 28th, 2005 at 10:59 pm
good points ashu.
what makes me wonder is why do so many players want to go to real or juve , etc. when there is absolutely no stability or job security for the coach? i’d be curious to know who has the longest tenure in la liga. it certainly is not the coaches of madrid or barca.
remember a few years ago del bosque won the champs league only to be sacked the next year. what has the revolving door of managers brought them since? squat!!!!!
March 28th, 2005 at 11:06 pm
you know, mazza, i wonder if paddy was starting to get worried at how quickly and seamlessly cesc had settled into the team. i mean, this 17 year old adolescent was running the team!!! and the product was the most dazzling eye candy we’ve seen of the arse perhaps ever.