I agree with a point Paul made, yet many of us have failed to see - It’s much EASIER for Vieira to decide to leave in the past summer, rather than stay. Why? ‘Cos he knew what he’s going to face when he decided to STAY. When things go wrong, he would be the first one to be made the scapegoat. And things been going exactly that way.
When he was struggling to regain his form mid way of the season, people couldn’t wait to jump onto his back, saying that he’s “lazy”, he’s “no longer the player he once was”, his heart was no longer with us… anything they could think of.
Paddy finally, quietly picked up his form, working tirelessly on the pitch, shouldering all the pressure, and carrying a bunch of kids with our injury-list adding up. We have lost the title race, but our league form, cup form have been very solid lately, everybody been talking about how brilliant our kids have been, yet shouldn’t our captain been given his share of credit as well?
Instead, we are jumping all over his back again just because something he said during a recent interview. Love_G has pointed out previously the truth hurts. What Vieira been saying I can’t see any difference from what we have been debating here the past month or two. Didn’t some of us here have also argued that we lack of summer additions, the squad was too young too inexperienced? All the football experts, all the fans would have their own opinion, so why can’t our captain has his? Be it we agree with him or not. If we believing what our captain been saying is making excuses, or simply being a cry baby, then what about us? Haven’t we been doing the same thing?
Back to the summer saga, I want to ask one question - has anyone thought of WHY Vieira decided to stay?
The easy answer would be - because Real Madrid did not meet the amount of money he asked, and he’s just nothing but a greedy bustard.
Think of that : even if Real Madrid did not meet the salary demand of Vieira, the amount of money they offered to Paddy would definitely higher than the salary he been earning with Arsenal. Otherwise how Real Madrid could have come up with the idea to steal him away from us when they couldn’t even offer him more money than he’s earning? Nobody knows what exactly been going behind the scene, but I believe this is a logic assumption.
Yet Vieira eventually still decided to stay. OK, maybe he does not love Arsenal. But I would like to think at least Arsenal does mean a little bit more to him than people been suggesting.
Finally, if anyone believes we will do just fine WITHOUT Vieira, wait until we really lose him then we would know…
David Dein once said “Money is only good when you can find a proper replacement”. Get rid of Paddy we would probably get ten or twenty million pounds in return. Twenty millions? Who do you think we can get? When you consider even Makelele costed Chelsea 22 millions, at the age of 30, and he’s not even close to Paddy.
Vieira is a tremendous talented and hughly blessed footballer, he makes things he do on the pitch look so easy, perhaps too EASY that some of us forgot it’s something not so easy to be done at all. At one hand, some of us can’t wait for us to get back to the winning way; on the other hand, we are crying out to get rid of one of our back bone players of our team… The way things going, it seems Gilberto and Sol Campbell are the only two players who still have a place in the Gooners’ heart… because they were out injuried for the large part of the season, so they couldn’t have done anything wrong. Had they played, we lost, or they made mistakes, they would be on the next show-them-the-door list I afraid.
70 Responses to “Please Please GIVE PADDY A BREAK”
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March 28th, 2005 at 7:48 am
according to fiorentino perez; patrick vieira turned down a move to real madrid because madrid demanded a medical to determine the condition of his knee(injured against man utd april 2003). wary of the fact that gabriel militio, the argentinian defender, failed a similar medical examining his knee months before (his knee was in good condition, as proved by move to zaragoza days after),vieira pulled out of the transfer because he knew he could not risk failing the medical as he would have to go back to arsenal with his tail between his legs to confront very unforgiving arsenal fans. he would be between a rock and a hard place. thus he pulled the plug on the transfer. david dein’s reaction was apparently; “what, i thought he was going.”
now, believe that if you will, and i can’t see perez lying some eight months later, but if its true it only backs up my character assassination of him. i mean, the guy spent eight weeks deciding, who the hell does he think he is?
many people will look at wenger’’s defence of vieira as proof that paddy has been a good boy in all of this, but when you consider wenger was taken for a ride by anelka(biggest tosser of all time) and still defended him, then you can’t really draw conclusions from wenger’s loyalty.
well andez, you think he one of our back bones, i don’t. and makelele’s not even close to paddy? six years ago fair comment, but a laughable one now when you consider than makelele is on the ball for the whole game, whereas vieira just cannot sustain anything for the full ninety.
with gilberto fit and healthy, and with fabregas and flamini, and hopefully and a new HUNGRY proven midfielder, whose HEART is still in it, we will flourish without vieira, in my opinion.
vieira’s form has improved and domestically he is a great asset, if he could accept not being first choice. but we all know paddy will not accept such a situation. whether its his fault or not, the guy is a big jinx on anything european, look at france when he became captain, they stagnated(and zidane was well from retirement then)
March 28th, 2005 at 7:50 am
the above is my comment, though many have already probably worked it out.
March 28th, 2005 at 7:58 am
Makelele couldn’t carry Vieira’s gym bag!
It was true 6 years ago, 3 years ago, and today.
You underestimate PV4… because you are spoiled at the high standards he has set.
If he goes, WHO is the replacement. We don’t currently have one in the squad. Don’t tell me Edu, Flamini and Cesc. Thats a joke. They are not the same type of player, and not near Paddy’s level.
March 28th, 2005 at 7:59 am
Andez,
You’re losing the plot. Show me one post or comment where I insulted PV or said he wasn’t good enough. If I can’t say sometime about a club I?ve support for over 29yrs then who else? I don’t believe in the America style of patriotism “crap” where you can’t say anything about your country before the right-wing start jumping up and down.
Someone said, if you read the back pages or sit in the pub you might think Sven is doing a bad job for England, nope is the way the folks see that game. Tell him one country where football can be headlines News. My days in the States sports became headline news when there is drugs, rape or something silly involved.
The facts are whether the truth hurts or not, the guy hope and wishes he was playing his trade somewhere else if things had worked out. It was to do with his medical and wages. That says it all.
Please no one is bigger than Arsenal. We Cope without TA, IW or IB and if Vieira decides to go because he can handle the heat I wish him good luck.
There are lots of guy who goes to Highbury week in and out and will tell you things are not the same as they used to be in 5yrs, 10yrs, or even 20yrs but you don’t have to sell you soul or forget your tradition.
The rest is history. I was watching the kops old stars yesterday and one said to me why does clubs like Liverpool still have that passion and spirit.
Football is not about star players. Is a team sport?
March 28th, 2005 at 8:02 am
So what,
If he goes that is not the end of Arsenal. I’ve seen some bad times at Arsenal and did not jump the ship to support Liverpool or United.
No one is bigger than my club.
March 28th, 2005 at 8:18 am
well that where we disagree,gilberto and edu, great combination, gilberto and fabregas, great combination. the combinations go on.
vieira is defensive midfielder, so is flamini and gilberto, so they are the same type of player. are you looking for an exact clone of the vieira of the late 1990’s?
the fact they are not the same type of player is my point in a sense, thats why i want him to go. talent wise, vieira is the best, but mentally he could learn alot for those guys. like for instance, playing well for an entire 90 mins for a start.
you harp on about wanting cole, reyes, and every other player not committed, to get lost, and i agree. but yet you don’t criticise vieira at all, even after perez’s revelations, which sound very valid.
i remember a previous post when you said; “up until now, ive never mentioned vieira’s form,” as if he is the chosen one and you can’t criticise him. alan smith, who really knows his stuff, has criticised vieira all season, and he wouldn’t do it for no reason.
March 28th, 2005 at 8:21 am
Love_G, I understand the necessary to criticse the players when they are under-performing, I did that when I felt Henry hadn’t been working hard enough, I did that when I felt Lauren at times made silly risky decision at the back…. But I really believe if we are going to criticse someone, it should be their performance ON THE PITCH, as this is the only thing we can SEE, and we KNOW EXACTLY what happened. Behind the scene, there are plenty of STORIES, yet I’m sure none of us here really know what’s going on. So how could we point fingers on something we didn’t even know what REALLY happened?
U made a good point previously on we should only pay attention to FACT, not FRICTION. To me, FACTS are what we REALLY know, not something we read from the papers.
Once again, I’m not suggesting Arsenal can’t do anything wrong, only that from what I read lately on this sites, it seems Arsenal can’t do nothing right. This is a club I love, I love everything of it, from the jersey, to the managers, players, to its history, tradition. It’s very difficult to take when it seems the manager and players been getting SO MUCH of sticks lately. I HONESTLY don’t think they deserve this.
March 28th, 2005 at 8:27 am
LoveG… I am no longer debating that AT ALL!
We CAN move on without Vieira if he were to go. I accept that.
My point and question is WHO. Who do you replace him with. Gerrard? bravo! Who else is a reasonable facsimile of PV4?
We do NOT have anyone in our current squad that can take his place. Thats my point.
March 28th, 2005 at 8:32 am
The above quote, about Vieira’s form… was not me!
I just do not agree that our midfield is anywhere near as good without Vieira. Not with the current players. If you tell me we have ” so and so ” coming in to replace him… a Steven Gerrard type, then that works. The current team has no physically intimidating…. take a game by the scruff… type players in midfield. Its not going to be Gilberto, Edu, Cesc or Flamini. They are simply not that type or style of player.
You can do OK in the short term, but LONG term, and against the likes of United or Chelsea or a CL opponent, you will get your ass handed to you regularly with a lightweight midfield.
March 28th, 2005 at 8:34 am
True we might not have anyone to replace PV at the moment but who ever taught of Henry as the next person to replace Ian Wright and doing a wicked job. Any club that depends on one player is doom to fail. We still Arsenal without the old back four/5.
Stag I have said it.. I’ve nothing against Vieira but Arsenal comes first.
March 28th, 2005 at 8:36 am
5 years, and 10 years ago we didn’t win Championships or go undefeated. Today, we do and anything is possible. That is because of players like Vieira and managers like Wenger.
Liverpool have passion and spirit?
They haven’t won in years… and if they don’t make it to the CL next year they will be departing Anfield in droves.
Vieira could go. We would go on. We’d still be a good team. Who would we get to replace him in midfield is the ultimate question.
Yes, he can be replaced. Who is the question.
March 28th, 2005 at 8:38 am
You right Andez,
I believe in Facts not fiction as I always say but what is going on at Arsenal have to stop.
If players don’t want to play for the club on their bike!!!!
Arsenal b4 any player and no one is bigger than Arsenal. We cope without the back 4/5.
March 28th, 2005 at 8:44 am
Who replaced Ian Wright? There are few players I taught can never be replace but has be done.
Pele? Brazil still winning things
And Who replace the back 5. The best back 4 in football history.
So if Vieira goes someone will step up or comes in and do a good job. We not and football is a one man team.
March 28th, 2005 at 8:48 am
Andez, some folks will never be happy regardless. You can go undefeated in a season, and there are those that say FAILURE! We didn’t win the CL.
The expectations are so high, that only the Quad will suffice… and then they’d say well you only won 2-1 in the final… why not 4-0.
Its the classic half full v half empty.
Or
Its the scapegoat scenario where folks dislike a player regardless, no matter what they do.
There is no winning this one.
March 28th, 2005 at 8:48 am
Remember Pele?,
They manage to replace him and when you look back 10 yrs or so countries and clubs have cope without some of their great players.
Vieira is not going to be at Arsenal for 100 yrs. Life goes on after him.
March 28th, 2005 at 8:51 am
True… we don’t know who could a replacement… could be some player from Zimbabwe. I asked for possible solutions and scenarios. Obviously, Wenger will not tell anyone his plan, nor should he.
I say if Paddy mentions he’s interested in going to: name that team, and the price is decent… send him. Can’t have ANY additional issues and distractions this off-season. My thought is … who to replace him with… IF he departs.
March 28th, 2005 at 8:55 am
we are coming from completely different planets, completely different mind-sets. i think vieira, talent wise, can do what you’ve mentioned, as he proved in his early years at the club,, but not ANYMORE.
what exactly does that type of player do stag? curse at someone, complain to the referee, get a stupid yellow card and then possible red for doing an unnecessary challenge just to show that you’re “mixing” it up. whats the point of that? if thats so important, lets get rid of fabregas and bring back ex-wimbledon hardman vinnie jones.
players like roy keane used their “physicality” in constructive ways like cajoling team-mates, giving them a rollicking when necessary. vieira just retreats and goes into his shell when the going gets tough.
p.s- you said that quote around november time, maybe december. not sure if you can troll back that far on this site. i remember it clearly as your the most ardent vieira supporter in the living history.
March 28th, 2005 at 8:57 am
I think we should get off Vieira’s back too. But I think he’s a bit arrogant when he suggested recently that he was the scapegoat for the teams failure this season. It is obvious that nobody at Arsenal kicks him up the arse after a bad game because ankle injury or no ankle injury some of his performances have been 20% of the player that he actually is.
A bad ankle does not make you unable to run or misplace countless 5 yard passes. And if it does, you should be on the doctor’s table not the pitch.
But I am sick of the Vieira story. He still has a lot to offer and Wenger needs to spend his money on sewing up other parts of the team. This team badly needs an injection of quality. The kids are doing fine but the older players need a boost, they need to be more confident about winning trophies - the kids aren’t giving them that and their game is suffering mentally.
March 28th, 2005 at 9:16 am
It is not a simple case of letting PV4 go and everything will be fine. He is still one of the best midfielder in the world - that you cannot take away from him. His form may not be the same as 2 or 3 seasons ago but even so, he is still a colossus amongst other players.
The other thing to note is that if Arsenal lets PV4 go, we will see the start of an exodus including TH14. TH14 has said that he will question the ambitions of a club like Arsenal if they were to release a player like PV4. This could mean the end of the Arsenal era as we know it.
On your theory that France is under-performing with Viera as captain, has it ever occurred to u that this has got to do with the indeptness of the current French coach? France with Zidane wasn’t that great in the last Euro in any case. I think u are picking on PV4 for all the ills of this season.
March 28th, 2005 at 9:26 am
good point about henry. he did say that.
i suppose i am picking on vieira but then again ive got so much material to work with that i never cease to find aspects of failure to attribute to him.
i think the difference is that i spotted the malaise, decline, call it what you will, in vieira’ s game a long time ago. it runs deeper than just this season.
i blame vieira for our season because he was dead weight at old trafford and that defeat screwed us up big time. with gilberto and edu out, he has played gradually better but is still no great shakes.
through no fault of his own, i think vieira is a jinx in many ways. every game at anfield he’s played we lose. every game without him at anfield we win. work that one out. inter milan away-without vieira. all these seemingly un-related incidents keep piling up for me.
March 28th, 2005 at 9:34 am
What does a player like that do?
Well… he changes how the other team plays the game. Crunching tackles. Intimidating presence and play. DOMINATION.
The game is usually won or lost in the midfield. The Vieira or recent past Dominated in midfield. There are few players of that ilk. Keane, as much as some dislike him, has that presence.
If your the opponent, and you KNOW the hard tackle is coming… you know the physical player opposing you is omni-present… you KNOW you have less time, are less likely to control the ball and play. Your opponent will be arriving with a hard tackle in a second… you cough up the ball, or pass it a bit quicker than you might ordinarily.
Vieira is STRONG. You aren’t going to knock him off the ball. Cesc? Flamini? teams aren’t afraid of trying to knock these guys off the ball.
Its a state of mind. Its a stamp on the game. Its a mental attitude thats imposed on the other team, before the ball is even kicked. You know you are dealing with a “Patrick Vieira”.
I think you know and have seen what PV4 is capable of…
I am not really telling you anything new.
March 28th, 2005 at 9:35 am
He was the scapegoat on this site. Thats for sure.
I think the scapegoat should be Ash.
March 28th, 2005 at 9:36 am
lets leave vieira thing at that. ive made my thoughts clear. he’s staying anyway so lets just get behind the team.
March 28th, 2005 at 10:03 am
This Perez claim is totally ludricrous. It implies that Vieira hadn’t expected a medical. Have you ever heard of a player being signed for god knows how many millions without undergoing a medical? I imagine even division 2 players aren’t signed without a medical of some kind, though a less searching one than we or Real, say, would demand.
March 28th, 2005 at 10:10 am
Seems to me the Vieira question won’t go away, not because so many fans have got it in for him - though they have - but for the more rational reason that he doesn’t combine well with Cesc. Their styles and abilities simply don’t mesh. Cesc-Gilberto or Cesc-Flamini is likely to be future, I think. Though for now, Vieira-Gilberto is a pretty powerful combination. I’m a huge Vieira fan but I think his days are numbered.
March 28th, 2005 at 10:34 am
Thanks,
When Newsnow brought out the headline, and when I saw it came from Arsenal America, I was happy for a change.
Without you Andez and a few other editors on this site you could believe, it’s a kind of Manure fans ‘ site dedicated at giving intelligently stick to our team in a subtle kind of MIND GAMES.
If you have a kind of link with Wenger, Paddy, Henry,… I don’t think you would be happy to come on this site.
WHen you look at NewsNow you’re shocked to realise this site is the most negative site against Arsenal among both the media and the Arsenal fans sites.
It’s just a fact. And apparently there’s nothing you can do about.
Some people are just mad when it comes to Pat, Arsene, Titi….
Always the same very abusive and brainless attacks on the key members of the team.
Is not this unsettling for the team, when it all becomes a dayly game for some sick people calling themselves “fans” ?
March 28th, 2005 at 10:37 am
of course vieira knew there would be medical. however madrid wanted previous medical reports on knee and were really pushing the knee issue. considering madrid rejected militio for an innocous knee injury they very well could have done the same to with vieira.
doesn’t make sense though. they get all high and mighty over knee issues, and then buy woodgate, a walking hospital.
March 28th, 2005 at 10:37 am
At least you know you are blaming Vieira for all our ills!
I blame Cole for alot of our failures. Ithink HE screwed us up big time.
I only want Paddy to go, A) if he wants to, B) if we have a replacement lined up.
He is NOT the problem with this team… although you and Love G would debate that issue!
March 28th, 2005 at 10:40 am
I don’t disagree with that point Love G.
Someone will play in Vieira’s position. Doing the same job or close to it… it the debate. If you don’t have a PLAN in mind to compensate for the loss, then you don’t create the void.
March 28th, 2005 at 10:41 am
Andez, your post reminds me that there are awlays two sides to every issue (even Colegate) and that we can either choose to look at them in favor of an individual or for the club. A professional athlete joins an organization and it becomes a partership. Like every partnership, things change, often without warning, and it is in those times that often the true nature of each is brought to the forefront.
That being said, my primary criticism of Vieira involves his conduct as leader of this club. Our #1. We all have given him special lenience as a result of his leading by example over the years and all we’ve won with him. He’s never been much for the press wars, but many a Gooner has excused his quiet reserve for his dominance on the pitch. My point is, his allegiance was always evident in his performance. When that waned, and we began to struggle with him, I think we all were waiting for those words of encouragement.
What we got, in my opinion, was all business and little heart. His admission to injury only raised more questions. His timing on speaking out on our “imbalance” was ill-advised to say the least. Many others in our club have managed to get their point across regardless of how poorly translated things are and we know who they are. For all intents and purposes, Vieira belittled our manager and our efforts with the youngsters in an attempt to do career damage crontrol. There are many ways to address the issues of our form this season, and I simply prefer the way Ljungberg and Henry have done it. When Theirry was misrepresented in the press, he scaldingly demanded a retraction or at least an opportunity to clear the air.
In my opinion, a Captain relishes the role of scapegoat. They take it personally if a team dips in form. They are there to take some responsibility. Vieira has done little more that I can tell but deflect blame. I realize I speak for myself when I say I am no closer to knowing how this man feels about this team from his behavior over the years other than through his play and that just does not strike me as a way to build confidence.
All in all, I think I would have preferred he relish his challanges with working with the kids, and backed his manager on the decisions he’s made. That to me sounds like someone who appreciates his position. Instead, he has steered his legacy to ambivalence and distrust. I mean, WE’RE STILL TALKING ABOUT HIM! That’s no coincidence. The only way to respond is to find a deal where we can cash in on his “past” form. Who would have thought it would have come to this. Which is exactly my point…only one person can dictate that. Vieira himself. And he has not.
March 28th, 2005 at 10:57 am
Pele, Ian Wright are not playing anymore. The same for the back 5.
We do have Pat now and he’s the best in his position and no one has done more than him for the last 8 years.
Loyalty goes both ways.
Brainsless “fans” failed to realise how difficult it was for Viera to choose between what he’s achieved and his dream as a kid.
Every one who faced this question at one time in his life, would understand.
If you cannot undestand the greatness of Patrick Viera, then you’ll suffer for the years to come because you’ll see him in an Arsenal shirt every time he’s fit.
If you don’t like, buy the club, throw away the players, the manager, and the boards and do what you want.
It will be your Arsenal, because this current Arsenal belong to Pat before you.
Calling yourself a fan because you go to watch the game is becoming a common behaviour.
So a little respect.
If you’ve got a problem of hate with a player, that should allow you to say what you want on his back, you cannot pretend to be a fan because you just don’t undestand what it means.
There’s a cost for everything.
For a side like Arsenal it’s vital to have world wide support. Real Madrid or Manure live with that support.
With the help Viera, Arsene, Henry, Arsenal has changed and are now the third supported club in the world!
It’s a matter of good education and respect.
Do you think Arsenal need a fan whose main job is to be negative about the team ?
I don’t think so.
March 28th, 2005 at 10:59 am
Scott, I like your points. Particular the part “a captain relishes the role of scapegoat”. You are probably the most clam and rational analysist of this site, I always respect your opinions.
For my part, I guess i was simply fed up by all the negative talks towads our team/manager/captain lately on this site.
March 28th, 2005 at 10:59 am
Now…
I have mentioned previously that I would swap Reyes for Casillas in the past, and the thoughts were that Madrid would never let him go.
Low and behold, Casillas is talking up a possible move to United, saying he would go the Premiership. He wants big money in his contract. Why not go after him. Why not offer Madrid the swap of Reyes for Casillas, and pay the 23 yr. old the ransom he is looking for. He would solve our keeper issues PERIOD. End of Story. Exclamation Point. Reyes goes home to Spain, Arsenal get the keeper they need, We keep United from solving their keeper issues. WIN WIN WIN.
March 28th, 2005 at 11:00 am
Just cash in ?
Sell him ?
We are talking about players (human being).
March 28th, 2005 at 11:00 am
absolutely fantastic post. thats exactly what i mean. i let emotion ruin my posts.
March 28th, 2005 at 11:05 am
Love_G, personally I think the back 4 haven’t been properly replaced until NOW, and still not yet….
Stag got a point, and you have to admit that - true, Paddy can be replaced, but WHO which is the question. Remember how long it took us to find a proper replacment for Petit? Also David Seaman… Ferguson would be the first to confess on how much they miss Schmeichel…
Some players can be replaced, but part of it down to luck. No one thought Henry could have replaced Wrighty and Anelka when he first arrived, not even Henry himself, if not because of Wenger’s vision and unshakable faith on Henry…
March 28th, 2005 at 11:14 am
?es, ScottyUs. Very little heart. Very little honesty, and lots of blame. Not a man for captain, in my eyes. Not an uplifting, supportive team presence by anay stretch. If he goes, I’m so tired of the tension he has created it will be sad but a releif.
March 28th, 2005 at 11:16 am
Scotty,
I always love ur writting skills and bang on points.
March 28th, 2005 at 11:23 am
After reading Scotty’s comments I hope we can close this saga.
That was what I meant by the truth hurts and scotty said it well with his nice written comment.
You can’t spoil a good comment but to say well done again Scotty..
Member of the year.
March 28th, 2005 at 11:30 am
Scotty, very to the point.
Cash him in? well… I don’t just want the cash. I want a replacement, or keep him.
But your points are on the target as usual.
March 28th, 2005 at 11:32 am
Right. Truth hurts. In life and on the pitch. Way to say it, Scotty. Wish PV could read that. Might do him some goood!
March 28th, 2005 at 11:37 am
Paddy has been a great player for us and hopefully he will be able to get his focus and determination back and reach to the level that he has in the past. He should not be the captain though, he has never been the right player to be the captain. I beleive that the only reaon he was made captain was an attempt to keep him with us a while longer. I would like to see him stay and reemerge into the player that we all know he is, but we should name a new captain.
March 28th, 2005 at 11:53 am
Who?!
Who’d be the new captain?
Sol? injured so often, he’d be unable to lead!
It’d have to be Thierry Henry. Otherwise, I don’t think there is a better choice than Paddy.
March 28th, 2005 at 11:58 am
I have to credit you for doing your homework.
What Viera needs now is help in the middle of the park. Playing against teams that employ 4-5-1 against us, he is frequently outnumbered. With Gilberto or Edu back to partner Viera, the odds are somewhat even out. I think Wenger sees the problems in midfield though I have nothing against Fabregas and Flamini who performed very well under the circumstances. There is no substitute for experience - Viera did say that the gap between the youngsters and the more established players were exposed this season. I think he is correct.
March 28th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Fergie has been told that he cannot buy until he sell, having used up all his transfer budget on Rooney. So I think he will be hard pressed to bring Casillas to OT. Letting Reyes go in exchange for Casillas will be good business for Arsenal & RM - they have someone whom we want and we have someone they can use. Reyes have been with us for the last 1.5 years and if he still has not adapted to life in England, I don’t think he ever will.
March 28th, 2005 at 12:21 pm
Yes exactly Woodgate. Come to that, Owen, whose hamstrings aren’t exactly reliable. They really wanted Vieira, I think, and the knee story is just the typical crap Real tend to put out.
March 28th, 2005 at 12:25 pm
Where does this story come from? Seems like a dream come true. Would Casillas really want to move to England? If so, you can bet he’d prefer us to ManU.
March 28th, 2005 at 12:57 pm
TO Pat’s spineless detractors:
People talk about Pele to defend their brainless critics of Patrick Viera.
Yes Brazil replaced Pele.
They won 3 titles (58,62,70) with Pele.
When Pele retired then spent 24 years (1970-1994) without any world cup.
Let Paddy alone.
Enough is enough.
March 28th, 2005 at 1:33 pm
Stag, I am with you,
but even Ash as long as he plays for us should have the support of the fans.
If you are a fan, you want to do everything possible to win the match.
Your first and most important job is to support the team especially when things get bad.
The kops sing “you’ll never walk alone”.
This great song is known of any football fans around the world.
While we should all get behind the team, some ‘fans’ are more dedicated to having fun by sharing their disgracefull and disrespectfull insults towards the players and the managers.
Their abuse the players for the sake of having an opinion.
There’s really a big problem on this sites.
Disrespectfull headlines are the first ingredient of writing a post here.
These provocating headlines doesn’t help anybody : the players and the fans who get frustrated by brainless “experts” in the media.
This site has become slowly but surelly the first place to look for very negative comments on Arsenal.
I
March 28th, 2005 at 1:37 pm
Thanks to all for your nice comments.
And sorry about the “cash in” bit, Stag. Sounds dismissive of his service to us, and I can only hope that any future dealings with him can see his legacy with the club preserved.
March 28th, 2005 at 1:45 pm
Here’s the one I’ve heard today, in response to Stag’s request for names:
PV4 to Inter for -
Emre, Edgar Davids, Toldo
Ok, not a direct swap position wise, but Davids and Toldo bring European experience (and aren’t exactly chopped liver). Emre is young (24/25) and pretty talented. The nice thing is that it gets Arsenal warm bodies, answering are depth problems.
Personally, I’d be willing to go with a central midfield of Gilberto, Flamini, Davids and Cesc (and Edu if he is still around). That sounds pretty solid to me. Plus a legit wing player for the inevitable Freddie or Pires injury (not sure which side Emre plays on). Toldo still has a couple of years left as well.
Stag, your thoughts?
March 28th, 2005 at 2:17 pm
People can?t debate without name-calling. It tells and shows how weak they are.
Paul, if you have issues with my opinions that is cool with me, but don?t dis-respect me rude boy. We can sort that out later maybe outside Highbury on Saturday. Since you join this site all you do is insult others. That says and tells a lot about you.
If you can?t debate like we all do here why bother. I don?t agree with Stag most of the times but we respect each other and put our views across. Be a man if you can and put your views across or after the Norwich game we can sort things up. 5pm @ T-bird. I will have a Jet cap on or the Saturday after @ Nevada Smith for the Norwich/United game.
March 28th, 2005 at 2:30 pm
I read this the other day…
I thought TOLDO!
But he would only be the answer for the next few years… I think he is 34.
DAVIDS is a good player, but far past his prime.
EMRE is a very interesting player, and the right age that you would want.
You’d HAVE to consider the deal. If we can’t get a YOUNGER No.1 keeper, Toldo would certainly fit the bill for the short term.
Not sure how much gas left Davids has to offer the club, but there is no doubting his talents.
I don’t think Wenger would do the deal, as he tends to ONLY bring in younger players. Can’t remember a 30 something player on his down side being brought in …. but I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong!
Its an interesting intriguing deal.
March 28th, 2005 at 2:31 pm
A Jets cap?!
I’ll bring you a Patriots cap next time I’m over!
March 28th, 2005 at 2:43 pm
As a point of full disclosure, I’m always partial to Dutch players, but does everyone forget that Davids went to Barca last year and they ripped off 17 games in a row unbeaten? I agree, Toldo and Davids would be relatively short-term answers. But I think we’ve got plenty of kids right now, good ones too. I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing in a couple of vets and let’s make a run for the Champs League when Thierry Henry is still in his prime.
March 28th, 2005 at 2:51 pm
Check out today’s soccernet.com. In the article, he appears to suggest that he prefers Fergie’s ‘hair-dryer’ management style than Wenger’s cultured management style. If that is the case, not a very bright chap!
March 28th, 2005 at 3:03 pm
This is funny.
Do you know the theory about criticism ?
Criticism is meant to hurt, and there’s nothing positive or constructive in it.
When you criticize you must be ready to face a more hurting criticism as pay back. This is a natural law.
I can debate, and I think most people know I can debate without any “name calling”.
A debate is not about spineless criticism.
Last month Paddy was the Opta players of the man while some stupid “fans” were still pissing people off about “paddy’s head is in Madrid, in Roman”, “sell him”, “Wneger is this”….
On which ground do we have the privilidege to read and listen to all this negative and demoralising insults they called criticisms ?
You call this a debate ?
You want to address the issue with me outside Highbury ?
Are you sure this is a man way to address a debate ?
As ever I do desagree with you. I am not going to fight with you.
Where my interest in it ?
When people come with their hate oriented comments and critcicism, the last thing they want is to face criticism.
What you said to Viera’s very bad.
Maybe Pat will be interested to sort this problem with you after the Norwitch’s game
Personnally I am not interested at all in your proposal.
I am in favour of PEACE and a great believer in King and Ghandi.
March 28th, 2005 at 3:13 pm
davor suker
March 28th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
Good god. We absolutely definitely don’t want him, not even though he’s probably the best keeper in the world. Can’t have a thicko like that in our fine marble halls
March 28th, 2005 at 3:57 pm
YES!
I thought of him too… but I wasn’t sure his age. He didn’t turn out too well, and nothing since!
March 28th, 2005 at 6:48 pm
Maybe Paddy has given us a lot to work with, and continues to do so, with his recent ill-chosen comments about the kids, and I like Scotty’s point, but maybe we should leave him alone. I feel a bit guilty about it now. You can’t keep on at one person all the time, no matter what they do.
So let’s all give Paddy a break.
For me one of the funniest and most interesting threads ever. Woody a walking hospital. Ha-ha.
March 28th, 2005 at 9:14 pm
Essyen, Mascherano, are few players we almost got and they are among those who could grow to replace Vieira. But if Vieira needs few season to mature into such a player, so do everyone else.
So if you are asking : WHO can instantly replace Vieira? I believe that is retorical. WHO can instantly replace TA? WHO can instantly replace DB? Backbones of the team are never easy and quick to replace.
All those criticism towards Vieira was due to his own foolishness. No one says that an Arsenal player must not dream of playing for Real. But as an Arsenal captain, you gotta be dumb to flirt with your old flame every summer in such a way that the whole world knows and joke about it. Surely you can’t expect every fan to be forgiving soul? He must be glad that someone else in the team just took over as the dumbest of all, meeting with rival team before a big game.
I say, let’s be fair. We can all see this guy was doing his best, playing through injury to win back our heart. And currently, he is almost back to old Vieira. So let’s support our captain.
BUT, if ever Vieira start doing his summer routine come the end of this season, lost of captaincy role is the least punishment he gonna get. If we can get good money for him, Wenger may even need to consider selling him. And even if that does not happen, surely there is no harm to bring in his successor early when money is available.
March 28th, 2005 at 11:40 pm
come on stag….
at the beginning of the season, sans vieira, we were playing the best football we’ve probably ever played as a team. ever. we were being called possibly the best ever english team and that was without vieira. then paddy came back and we have not been the same since. (mind you, i know it’s not that simplistic. losing gilberto was a far bigger loss.)
there are too many people in denial here. a few years ago, paddy was by far the best midfielder in the world. but that was a few years ago….
March 28th, 2005 at 11:44 pm
i also remember, during the pre-season, henry saying that vieira wasn’t the only player of worth on our team. the media and certain fans suggested that we could never win a thing without paddy, and i think titi took a little offense to those comments. it’s a team game.
that having been said, for those who say we can’t win the champs league without vieira…………….
well we haven’t won it with him, have we?
March 28th, 2005 at 11:49 pm
why do you guys want an exact replica of pv4 to take his place if he goes? go watch the games from the beginning of the season without vieira, maybe you will find the answer.
March 28th, 2005 at 11:57 pm
i will say it again…
we didn’t win the champs league when vieira was the best in the world. how can we win it with the vieira we have now?
March 29th, 2005 at 12:14 am
a great believer in peace and yet you slag anybody who says something you don’t agree with. you try to explain criticism, yet you criticise anybody who posts comments you don’t agree with. what gives?
i remember you throwing in comments about us ‘americans’ criticising our president before we criticise the team. the gaul!! well i will save my criticism of this pathetic administration for a site devoted to politics. thank you very much.
i wish we could all be such upstanding fans, paul. you’re a legend in your own mind, and your nose and lips look to be the color of vieira’s sphincter.
so…is that criticism, or am responding to criticism with more ‘hurting criticism’? i really want to know.
you’re a walking, and talking, double standard.
March 29th, 2005 at 11:56 am
seanieB,
Thanks for your reply.
I don’t mind about any criticism about myself. I know the rules of criticsm as you’ve mentionned.
Once you start criticism you must be ready to face it yourself.
It’s a no winners game.
People who start it, don’t like to be criticized.
Players are human being and everybody uses the internet.
How many times did we see a player unsettled because he’s been abused by fans over internet ? Countless.
There’s no question about me letting some brainless “fans” have free fun on the back of my team and our key players.
NO WAY.
If anyone wants a free brainless attacks on Arsenal’s players, they should go to Manure or Chelsea fans sites.
There, they will be nobody to criticize them because they’ve been hard on Viera, Titi, or Wenger or Arsenal.
If these arsenal’s detractors don’t like to be criticized, they should think twice before giving stick to others.
Anytime a stupid guy attacks my team, I will be there to tell him what I think in the way I want.
Right now, I feel really bad and sick of these insane headlines on Newsnow. There’s no room to enjoy the nice ŧhings that are going on Arsenal. They keep us busy on replying to disgusting posts that they know will hurt people.
Arsenal this, Wenger, sell Henry, sell Viera….
There’s a dayly capaingn against the team.
I feel I have got to take the respionsability to defend my team.
We are free to have an opinion.
They think I am wrong, I feel they are the first who were wrong.
I’ve never started any criticism.
I just react, and I don’t care what they think of me.
I am nothing anyway.
March 30th, 2005 at 10:56 am
It’s worth commenting that Paddy is also one of the worst Captains Arsenal have ever had. He has no leadership qualities whatsoever, he hardly talks on the pitch and doesn’t distinguish himself from other players when we need him to step up a gear and drive the team on.
March 31st, 2005 at 12:30 am
it’s funny…
we’ve talked to no end about replacing dave and the back 4/5, but we’ve not discussed the fact we have not replaced big tone as captain.