A lot of thoughts after viewing the match:
First, that was a pretty entertaining game. How many times do you see a match with 22 top quality players? I mean, there was not one guy out there you could exploit. Absolute class all over the pitch.
Now, on to Arsenal’s performance. I really couldn’t fault any player too much. Here’s my breakdown:
Bergkamp - A couple of nice passes, but never really a factor. He and Reyes just don’t have a connection. Dennis probably doesn’t have enough in the tank to play full throttle in a game like this anymore.
Reyes - It seems he’s got some ideas, but his teammates don’t know what they are, and his teammates have ideas, but he doesn’t know what they are. Lost possesion a bit easy a couple of times. My impression is that he’s a nice, talented kid but right now he’s just not on the same wave length with his teammates.
Pires - Two great chances early. What can you say, today they just didn’t fall his way. But he was trying to make things happen in the offensive third.
Vieira - A very solid game, but where are the rampages runs from midfield? Gilberto seemed to be getting forward just as much. He played well, but this game needed a huge effort from him.
Gilberto - Bottom line, he’s in the lineup and Arsenal are a better team.
Cesc - Playing out of position didn’t help him. But he’s got the best vision on the team besides Bergkamp.
Ash - Good game. Played solid.
Senderos - After Gilberto, the most important player on this team in my opinion. Future captain who will compare favourably with Adams if he stays healthy.
Kolo - Solid.
Lauren - Also solid.
Lehmann - He’s a good keeper. A solid defense (and Gilberto) makes him a great keeper.
van Persie - Needed more time to make an impact.
Aliadiere - Jose Canseco Jr. This guy hit the weights hard this winter.
Wenger - Hmmm. I thought he played his cards about as well as he could. Early subs? Maybe. I would have rather kept Cesc on and pulled JAR. Once DB10 and Cesc were off, Arsenal had very little in the way of creativity.
Overall I can’t complain too much. It did seem at times that Arsenal had 11 very talented individuals on the pitch, rather than a smoot team. Also, we needed to be a bit lucky you might say, but you know what? You have to create your own luck. This was a game Arsenal had to win, Chelsea would be happy with a draw. So why couldn’t Arsenal get more than a shot or two on goal in the second half? Dennis, JAR, Pires, even PV4 needed to take shots from distance. You never know, a deflection, maybe the keeper fumbles the ball to an on-rushing Pires… Arsenal needed to make something happen in this game and it seemed, after the first 20 minutes, they were content to see if something good might just magically happen.
Five league games left, they must maintain second. But the focus now must be the FA Cup. Beating Man U in that one could send real shockwaves through that club. Oh, I’m sure I’ll be reading about the horrible indiscipline rampant in that club after yesterday’s two red card performance. What’s that? Won’t be mentioned at all you say? Oh, yeah, that’s right, there’s a double standard for Arsenal where that’s concerned.
Come on you Gunners!
52 Responses to “Arsenal v. Chelsea Post-Mortem”
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April 21st, 2005 at 7:39 am
For me once I saw the line up I couldn’t see where the goals were coming from, Bobby aside. A natural srtiker like Ali or Robin should have started. A good game actually, Chelsea is a clean side that plays soccer, but it lacked the intensity of the last match, precisely because even a win for us would probably not have changed much.
April 21st, 2005 at 8:14 am
Yes very entertaining match it was! What a start Arsenal had! I was satisfied with the efforts of all and with a bit of luck we would of had the win. As for the lineup, source of constant comment and debate, maybe Van Persie could of started as he has been hot. I believe in Wenger and think that he has the full picture of what is going on and makes his lineups accordingly…
I though that Reyes did well, he was around the ball all game, yes there were problems in hooking up at times but others had the same problem at times also. I thought that he was involved and gave a big effort. All the players gave it their best. Seems like Sederos is in the lineup now for good and once again what a game he played! Yes it is disappointing not going further in the Cl or fininshing 2nd but, Chelsea will not have beaten us and the way I see it we have the better side now and for the future.
One thing that I must give Chel$ki is that they played the game, none of this BS goon stuff like the pathetic 3rd place who were at it again last night. So let’s go Gunners, finish the season on a high, win the FA cup and a solid second and watch out everyone next year!!
Go Gunners!!
April 21st, 2005 at 8:15 am
Let’s get the negativities out of the way.
Crime #1: What the f_ck was Wenger thinking by starting Bergkemp & Reyes up front? As soon as I saw the teamsheet I expected the worst. I think probably all of you KNEW that those two up front would create absolutely f_ck all. It seems that everyone other than Wenger knows this.
Well fine, I thought give it the umpteenth try, and when it dawns on Wenger that it doesn’t work, he’lll have the surprise package out.
Crime #2: Why did he wait until the 78th minute to make the first change, bringing RVP in for Dennis ’see I told you he would be ineffective’ Bergkemp? Does it take 78 minutes to dawn on Mr Wenger that Dennis made essentially only one decent play the entire game? UNBELIVABLE!
Crime #3: 2 odd minutes later he interupted the flow (or the lack of it) of the game by bringing on Ali for Cesc. What the f_ck??? Wasted another minute or two during the process. Why not bring both on at the same time? It’s not like we are 1 or 2 goals up like the Blackburn FA Cup game last weekend! I agree with Rick that he should have come on for Reyes rather than Cesc.
And don’t get me started on Reyes……I think I am up to here already with him. Like many of you I was screaming at the tele whenever he touched the ball. When is he going to pick himself up? And I mean literally. Falling down, bad passes, loosing possession, falling down again, game in, game out, week in, week out. Now getting booked for ‘Simulation’. Does any other Arsenal player loose possession as much as him? NO! I know he was playing out of position (refer to crime #1) but it does not justify that kind of performance, though last night was not his worst, I must say.
The positives: The rest of the team played well, though perhaps not all were brilliant. Lehmann was excellent, Lauren made Duff rather peripheral most of the time, Sendoros let Drogba loose a couple of times but you also have to count how many times he dispossessed the Ivory Coast striker. Cole (Ashley) had Cole (Joe the perpetual complainant) for dinner. Toure was solid, and so was Gilberto. Viera had a mixed game, started brilliantly was became careless in the 2nd half, lost a few possession and was caught napping in the area. Pires had one of his strongest games in the last few mionths, but luck was not on his side. Cesc was out of position but did a fine job - considering the opposition he was up against.
Solid performance overall, but we could have won the game. I see where Danny T is coming from regarding some of the tactical choices of Wenger, but I think that he and most of the team still did a good job against the mighty Russians.
The Bergkemp/Reyes combo and Wenger’s undying faith in it are proving to be our biggest current obstacles.
April 21st, 2005 at 8:44 am
Well that’s why I want Reyes gone. His presence represents too many missed opportunities, for the team and for others. Anyone here who says they don’t scream at Reyes on TV is a zen master or a liar. But then Wenger has 17 million reasons to play him.
April 21st, 2005 at 8:44 am
Arsene Wenger stays the course. He does what he thinks is correct, and follows that path through. If you were surprised at the Bergkamp/Reyes pairing up front, then you have not been paying attention.
If you don’t like it, well, its possible Bergy & Reyes won’t be here next year, so you won’t have that to complain about!
I just read that Trez wants to play with his buddy Thierry next year. That would be a formidable strike force…
Not a bad outcome yesterday. A good effort by the team, we just lacked… THIERRY HENRY. You know, the best striker in the world. He might have been able to make something out of nothing, or created a half chance.
I thought the players played hard, and they played well. Chelsea is a damned good team.
April 21st, 2005 at 8:51 am
Well I’m feeling pretty good right now about The AFC and Wenger’s choices. He came in to keep it tight after taking the mother of all beatings at the weekend. I’m surprised Paddy was able to run at all! Without an in form striker to give us the confidence to score if we need to chase the lead, he went with experience and speed to help out defensively. Did anybody see how active DB10 and Reyes were when it came to keeping the ball out of the box? Wenger knew he had to play close to the chest on this one, and he was unlucky to not have had a lead in the first two minutes.
Add to that the Cole hearing and playing AWAY to the deepest team ever in the history of the EPL and you have to understand his game plan. As far the subs at the end, maybe he saw something we didn’t and felt in the second moment to stop being conservative and throw some out and out strike power out there. I saw it as a bold effort to win the game. Neither man got a sniff, but by then, we were too tired and Reyes too wasteful.
Jose, Jose, Jose…just looked out of his depth. I’ve been trying to figure out why this kid isn’t tearing it up no matter where you put him, and the only thing I can think is that he needs more space to get up to speed. He receives a pass, makes a quick but roboticand predictable turn towards goal, and needs three or four steps to get into gear. Once he’s in he’s like lightening, but he’s too easy to catch in the precious first moments. And of course, being still slighter than I thought he would be by now, he gets tripped up as he attempts to shift up. To his credit he kept running, but delivery has to be inch perfect for him at this stage.
You don’t beat a rested Chelsea defense, lined up with military precision at the top of the final third, without penetration players like Freddie and Henry. Wenger knew that, and went in to take some outside chances. We almost got them and showed a lot of steel with a half hour remaining when the dogs were barking. Lauren had a blinder, as did Kolo. Both were solid yes, but harrying as well. Against a rested squad with their quality, wagering getting another clean sheet after the start that we had would have had no takers.
All in all, I think Wenger was happy to sacrifice creativity (knowing full well it would wane as we got more tired) for the sake of keeping it controlled and taking our shots. This was a heavyweight fight where the tale of the tape was uneven to say the least. That’s what you do if you don’t want to get dropped. He kept us in the title chase to the last tick.
Well done, lads. Let’s hope we can take advantage of the mental instability of the Northern scum by keeping our heads as controlled and relaxed as they were last night. What a change, thanks to a few returns and ANOTHER young revelation, from where we were a few short months ago.
Up the Arse!
April 21st, 2005 at 8:56 am
And on more thing…Wenger got us a point to pull further away from United. Who else thinks he got a whisper about their being down and Neville getting sent off. Beating Chelsea by throwing the kids out early would have been a gamble and a wonderful coup, but it would not have made him a better manager. He’s got to think about United right now as its those punks that stand in our way of silverware and possibly second place. We got the point. PRIMARY mission accomplished
April 21st, 2005 at 9:06 am
Well, Rick, the last few games have swung me around on Gilberto. You said it all along, but I was too caught up in my “Edu Phase” to pay attention: this team is so much better with Gilberto on the pitch. I really think this season would have gone differently had he been available all year long.
Here’s to him being healthy next year.
I thought Cesc was OK, but he just can’t play wide as he constantly floated back to the middle and Chelsea realized it, too. There were long stretches where Arsenal didn’t even try and bring the ball up the right side, something that Lauren and Ljungberg do very well.
All in all, this team has a chance to be much better next year, and with the emergence of Senderos I don’t think Wenger needs to buy a CB in the summer.
As for DB10 not having enough in the tank, I also agree, and it’s sad but we may be seeing the last games of a fantastic career. I don’t think he’ll be resigned in the summer, especially since Bentley can come back from Norwich and fill that supporting strikers role.
JAR just doesn’t mesh well on this team. he is very talented, but his talents just don’t fit. Hopefully we’ll be able to get back a good chunk of what we paid for him this summer.
April 21st, 2005 at 9:16 am
I have to be honest and say the team really played well yesterday but Wenger should have done his subs very early. This is where I always get piss off with him.
RVP should have been on from the second half and Ali with about 20 minutes to go not 2 seconds to go.. What a waste.
The second good thing is we will have some good rest during the summer break knowing we will finish second. Thanks to useless United.
Saying all that. If Chelsea wins on Saturday the game on Monday will mean a lot to some of us. It will be seen by most Londoners as the game of the yr if not yrs. Talking about it the whole day at work and every Arsenal fan I know hope it does not happen.
Knowing the A$$ - Spurz will love to do anything possible to give the title to Chelsea on that day..
Watch the space.
April 21st, 2005 at 9:25 am
It took RvP all of about five minutes to score twice against the sluggers at the weekend. Not something you want to rely on, granted, but I think it may have been in Wegner’s mind. Course, he is a chronic late-subber. There’s just got to be something he’s seen or knows that we don’t. Hence, “Arsene knows”.
Monday’s game is huge. Seeing as they drew to West-Brom, who’ve been on a run of sorts lately, I think we’ll stuff them if we switch positions with Lehmann and Reyes.
April 21st, 2005 at 9:48 am
good performance overall but was a bit disappointed with our attacking in the second half. when i watched us in the second half it was exactly the same as how we played against man utd at old trafford. no real attacking threat. how we are top scorers and so-called great entertainers ill never know. i personally fiind our style of play quite boring as there is no conviction to it when we play against a decent defense.
i thought vieira was great in the first half but again looked like he was playing in quicksand in the second. just didn’t know when to release the ball.
toure’s distribution is really pissing me off. he hasn’t got a clue when it comes to passing it around the defence. good defending though.
all in all, a good display but i still think the team needs surgery attacking wise. thank god for senderos.
April 21st, 2005 at 9:55 am
I agree with your post in every way… Gilberto, Cesc, Senderos, DB10, and JAR.
April 21st, 2005 at 10:08 am
Rick, I agree with your post. Good summary.
Items that haven’t been mentioned, or haven’t been highlighted enough…
Super Bob Pires was as much a defensive midfielder as he was an attacker! He had numerous tackles and I kept checking my eyes! Great game Super Bob!
Senderos was amazing… he owned Drogba.
Gilberto is the most valuable midfielder… the side is strong and secure when he is in it. This is not to take anything away from Vieira, who also had a good game.
Cesc is a 17 year old running with some fast company out there, and he looked as cool and collected as any other professional out there.
Someone else mentioned it, and it was a highlight of the game for me… Lauren turned Duff into a ghost. Duff had no impact on this game.
April 21st, 2005 at 10:11 am
the reason we started with reyes is because chelsea have struggled against him in the past and he is a very mobile forward which causes Terry problems - admittedly Reyes did not have an incredible game, but I think rvp, for all that he had a great 10 minute cameo against blackburn, would have suited the chelsea defence much more. As for the Reyes booking, he went past two players, was fouled twice by Tiago, I think, and brought down when he would have been racing clear, net result yellow card - it was a facking dreadful decision by the ref, no wonder Jose feels a bit down in the dumps, first of all mike riley lets the nevilles kick jose all over the park and from then on refs have treated him like a diver, how’s he meant to play his game when if he goes past someone and they bring him down he get nothing - it’s been like that ever since the first man u game. you’ve seen him play at the start of the season - he was awesome. there is no reason he won’t be again. give the guy a break.
ps that’ll be the same bergkapm/reyes combo who scored twice in the cup last year.
April 21st, 2005 at 10:24 am
That was definately a dive by Reyes and a poor one at that. He had done the hard part getting by both defenders and then he got the lightest touch and goes down instead of running into the box with the ball. It was a dive there is no question. I agree that he has not gotten much help from the refs this season, but he deserved that yellow card. I really do hope that he gets back to his best, because when he plays that way he is very very good, but it just does not look like it is going to happen for him. I think he is going to be a great player for another team in another league, but unfortunately not for us.
April 21st, 2005 at 10:31 am
Stag I agree with you. It was a good performance by the lads. I think people underestimate how good Chelsea’s defense is we were always going to have trouble putting the ball in the net against them let alone without TH14.
Also I would love to see Trezuget along side Henry next season they compliment each other so well. He would also give us the much called for plan B as he can head the ball but he still has the attributes that Arsene looks for ( speed, skill etc…)
April 21st, 2005 at 10:41 am
I agree we did not have much impetus in the second half but don’t undervalue that Chelsea got to rest this weekend while we were getting battered by Blackburn. This late in the season that makes a really big difference late in the game.
April 21st, 2005 at 11:00 am
Maybe Wenger can trade JAR for Trez. JAR’s game is probably more suited for Serie A - he will get the referee protection there. Trez should be a great addition to Arsenal as he is a very strong target man. Wenger will need to find a way to rotate van Persie and Trez if that were to happen.
April 21st, 2005 at 11:57 am
The reality is, if Trez were to come to Arsenal, he would not be rotating.
That is the catch-22. If you bring that type of star to Arsenal, he PLAYS almost all the time. It would not make any sense to sit someone making that kind of money.
So bringing in stars will inhibit the kids and greatly reduce their playing time.
If you bring in Trez, then Ali and Reyes should go, as they will not get to play much.
April 21st, 2005 at 1:10 pm
“You don’t beat a rested Chelsea defense, lined up with military precision at the top of the final third, without penetration players like Freddie and Henry. Wenger knew that, and went in to take some outside chances. We almost got them and showed a lot of steel with a half hour remaining when the dogs were barking. Lauren had a blinder, as did Kolo. Both were solid yes, but harrying as well. Against a rested squad with their quality, wagering getting another clean sheet after the start that we had would have had no takers.
All in all, I think Wenger was happy to sacrifice creativity (knowing full well it would wane as we got more tired) for the sake of keeping it controlled and taking our shots. This was a heavyweight fight where the tale of the tape was uneven to say the least. That’s what you do if you don’t want to get dropped. He kept us in the title chase to the last tick. “
That’s an interesting take & after reading it, I tend to agree & it did seem that we might’ve lacked a bit up front b/c we had plenty of frontmen tracking back for defensive cover. Wasn’t Pires in the box a lot & made a crucial clearance? Or am I thinking of someone else?
April 21st, 2005 at 1:19 pm
I also noticed Pires tracking back a lot but wasn’t sure if that is in Wenger’s gameplan or if it was Pires just doing that on his own.
And I also agree on Senderos’ play. Despite the one time getting turned by Drogba, he played very well indeed. Does he get a spot in the FA Cup Final? At this point, I’d almost be inclined to start him over Campbell.
As someone stated above, with Gilberto healthy, this year could’ve been a lot different, not that I’m complaining b/c despite what others on this site may think, I don’t feel that going out in the quarters of the CL, finishing 2nd in the EPL, & being in the FA Cup Final, not to mention advaning a few rounds in the League Cup with practically a reserve/youth side, is a disappointing season. With Gilberto healthy next year, I think we’ll be able to turn the tide back away from Chelsea.
April 21st, 2005 at 1:24 pm
Well, thank christ someone agrees with me, I thought I was going mad.
What the hell is wrong with you people? Arsenal have just surrendered their Premiership title without so much as a whimper. I didn’t care if we won, lost or draw against Chelseam, but I wanted to see a performance;, where was the bloody effort? Before the game, the usual suspects were all talk and no action again. Ashley Cole said we HAVE to get 3 points, nothing else will do, and after the game says we’re happy with a draw? How can you be happy with a draw when you’ve just handed the title to your rivals?
As for Reyes, you’re all walking around with blindfolds on. Don’t you remember the Reyes that played for Seville, or the Reyes that lit up the Premiership when he first joined? Just watch him, he doesn’t give a stuff, he’s counting down the games until he can sod off back to Spain, it’s so obvious.
You’re also paying far too much respect to Chelsea, they’ve only kept about 1 clean sheet in their last 12 games, yet Arsenal could only muster about 2 shots on target in the whole match. We’re not getting close to beating the big teams. Mourinho knew what he was doing, he said to his players, it’s only Reyes & Bergkamp, just sit back and save your energy for the Champions League. And that’s exactlywhat Chelsea did, Arsenal didn’t stop them playing, because Chelsea didn’t want to play. They didn’t press Arsenal at all, they just let us have the ball, and the knew we couldn’t do anything with it.
Furthermore, why make ridiculous statements about Senderos being the next Adams, when Drogba made a fool out of him twice but made a complete hash of his first finish, then failed to square a simple five yard pass for an open goal to Joe Cole. Had those of gone in it would have been a very different attitude to Senderos this morning, but you all seem to ignore those calamatous mistakes, the sort of mistakes that usually see you buried at the top level.
I don’t like criticizing Arsenal or Wenger, I love the team and I love what Wenger has done for us. But I am a very concerned Arsenal supporter at the moment. We have only beaten our major rivals twice in the last 13 games now, this team is sitting still, the kids are not ready, and it’s dubious whether most of them are even good enough. Only Fabregas is a dead cert quality player of the future in my eyes, the other’s future’s are all in the balance.
I’m not convinced Wenger is goimg to make the right decisions in the summer, he seems to be losing the plot in many areas of his management. I truly hope I am wrong, but this has been his worst season as far as I’m concerned, and Arsenal’s points total is not a realistic gauge of the team, because the Premiership is of a VERY poor standard this season, with Bolton & Everton scrapping for the champions league.
Don’t have a go at me for my views, they come from the heart. Something is not right at Arsenal and it needs fixing big time in the summer, for the first time I am doubting Wenger is the man to fix it. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, because he has done a miraculous job for Arsenal and deserves time and MONEY, but only domestically - he remains a very unconvincing and average tactician in Europe.
April 21st, 2005 at 1:29 pm
You are right about ’star’ players always wanting to start. But the realities of playing 70 over games a season means that squad rotation is the most plausible solution to player fatigue, injuries and form. However I am not hopeful that Wenger will employ squad rotation for Arsenal - he always wants to pick the same team day in day out irrespective of fatigue or form
April 21st, 2005 at 1:30 pm
Yes. I think I remember the commentator announcing with some surprise that an excellent clearance had been made by Pires. He had wonderful night, and had he scored, he would have bene given his extension. It is curious, though, he’s picked up his game and leaked the Lyon comment. A topic for another time, perhaps.
I also remember Dennis clearing importantly a few times, as well, and working hard in the air. And Reyes can make an end to end run like no one else on the team, so his presence out there is multi-purpose in a game like that.
I think Dennis’ ability to pass (to whom was the question put to, among others, Jose and Bobby) was also something Wenger felt he needed to dissect their back four, sometimes nine. There was just no way he was going to throw a lot of young numbers forward after our D just played against the new thug pretenders only a few days ago.
April 21st, 2005 at 1:55 pm
And yet, there are two Premiership sides in a Champions League semi, a Dutch side and an Italian side. Sounds to me like we’ve got the reins in Europe. Come on, Danny, you’ve been a “half-empty” Gooner all year. I hear your concerns, but its way off base to be calling for a clean out over losing the plot.
There are a HOST of intervening circumstances to consider when you point out the areas that you are. Your criticism of Senderos is basically criticizing a reserve player against a striker who believes he’s as good as Henry? He gets burned a few times and that gets more ink from you than all the clean sheets he’s been a part of? As a manager, you have to make some quick decisions, and if I’m Wenger the kid stays or someone else gets him. And trust me, they ALL want him. We say the NEXT Tony Adams. Tell me another defender his age, on any team, that could be considered that.
Chelsea came in to the game for a point. That does not mean they were phoning it in. They may have not broke their backs to net, but they were running ragged to keep us out. There are images burned into my mind of their back NINE. Not four, not five, NINE! They set up shop and worked extremely hard. They pressed for the ball when it got close to their net, but knew if they pressed in our defensive third that we would burn them. They also knew that we weren’t going to gift them any more set-piece goals as they were soundly beaten at Highbury otherwise.
And a team who’s conceded as few goals as Chelsea have is going to make it tough on a team who doesn’t have an in-form striker and is forced to play cautious because of it. We give up a goal last night on their ground, and odds are we lose. End of story. Can’t you credit Wenger for knowing that and still nearly taking the lead in the first two minutes? Wenger’s lineup was practical and efficient without our two biggest goal scorers. And yet our first quarter hour of play put brown stripes in Jose’s Calvin Kleins, I assure you.
If you didn’t see effort after the beating we took from Blackburn, who have been handing tough games to everyone, than you just refuse. If you can’t understand what injuries have done to our season and how important it was for our youngsters to excel like they did, that’s more of the same. I hate to lose, too, Danny. I really, really, do. But I know that we’re the team to beat next season. And I know there’s no other manager out there that is a better choice for us.
Bottom line: no Russian Billionaire, we repeat, and are on course for a double.
April 21st, 2005 at 2:00 pm
Wenger is probably desperate for Reyes to stay. Presumably that’s partly why he starts him - as a mark of faith, a sign of encouragement. I am in the pro-Reyes camp, but I acknowledge that the chances of keeping him, and of his recovering his form, are not very high. In my view, if van P had started in place of Dennis, we might just have taken three points. Bringing him on so late, when Mourinho was able to cancel out his effectiveness with Tiago, wasn’t a good strategy however you look at it. Assuming that Dennis, if not Reyes, is leaving, then it would surely make sense to give van P as much experience as possible, plus the chance to settle into the team, seeing as he’s going to be central next season. At present he looks as though he’s having trouble finding spaces when up against good defenders: hence the importance of giving him practice. Sure, I knew in advance that Wenger would do this; and I know he knows more than me, but I simply can’t understand his reasoning. Could someone explain?
April 21st, 2005 at 2:10 pm
I don’t think we’ll go for Trezeguet - too expensive and possibly past his best. Maybe Caracciolo (spelling?) who, I notice, scored again last night. I’d rather like Pizarro or even Guererro - now there are players who can get past the Chelsea defence -but presumably Bayern never sell their young stars.
April 21st, 2005 at 2:14 pm
Hey, where have I suggested a clean out? I am suggesting additions, the squad needs to be bigger and better, and we shouldn’t be over-reliant on these kids, because their future is very much in the balance.
You say Senderos is the next Tony Adams, I admit he has potential, but you are way off mark on this one. He is a potentially very good player, but Tony Adams was one of the best defenders in the world. So let’s not get over-excited. All Senderos had to deal with last night was long balls to Drogba, and he got it right only half of the time.
Wenger has money to spend in the summer, the board have told him and the media that. Probably more money than he’s ever had to spend + with the Reye’s money he will have a formidable war chest. I want to see what he does with it before I go ballistic, but I am doubting him tactically as well.
You must stop making excuses for Wenger, look at Liverpool’s injuries, horrific, far worse than Arsenals and look where they are now in the Champions League? Just because Liverpool are there doesn’t mean with a bit of luck Arsenal can make it, it means that they have a more tactically astute manager, and Benitez is exactly that. You don’t bypass Juventus in the champions league through luck. I am fed up using injuries as an excuse, Arsenal will have injuries to key players for lengthy periods in 9 out of 10 seasons, and it’s a shame that Wenger decided to spend all last season’s transfer budget on Reyes instead of getting decent cover at the back. Maybe then we’d still be in the competition, or maybe not.
April 21st, 2005 at 2:15 pm
I agree about Toure. He’s great when there’s someone to boss him about - fortunately Sol and Senderos can - but he can’t actually think for himself. Is it lack of confidence (which might come with experience) or lack of a footballing brain?
April 21st, 2005 at 2:22 pm
Danny, there is no question of your passion for the team… but you go way too far on the negative swing of the pendulum on a regular basis.
If the English league is so mediocre, why are Chelsea and Liverpool in the Semi’s of the CL?
Chelsea are getting too much respect??
They are winning the league by 11 points, and are in the Semi’s of the CL. They’d have to be favorites to win that competition.
By the way, Chelsea didn’t beat us this season. We played BOTH matches with major injuries.
The kids have played very well this season. The future for most of them is blindingly bright. You don’t have to see this if you don’t want to, but please, name me another team with this much young talent? Cesc, Flamini, Senderos, VanPersie, Reyes, Aliadiare, Lupoli, Quincy, Bentley, Hoyte, Clichy.
THAT’S ELEVEN PLAYERS… all KIDS… that have played in various competitions this season, all have performed pretty damned well.
Yet you….are a concerned Arsenal supporter.
I am not even sure Cesc is the best of that bunch. It could be argued that other teams would take 2 or 3 of the others ahead of him.
RELAX. DEEP BREATHES. TRY TO SEE SOMETHING POSITIVE… just occasionally.
April 21st, 2005 at 2:24 pm
You explained it yourself. He is desperate to keep Reyes, if he drops him he’s scared Reyes will leave. But ironically, he is more likely to KEEP him if he drops him, because Real might quickly lose interest. Besides, Wenger should play the in-form player, not a player who: a) doesn’t like playing as a lone striker, b) wants to leave, c) is in a terrible run of form.
Wenger said the other day that he watched Reyes in training and now he is back to his best, I just can’t believe some of the garbage that is coming out of his mouth anymore. He has to stop molly-coddling these players and kick their bloody arses.
If Reyes wants to leave then drop him and play somebody who does and has a future. Wenger is playing Reyes for selfish reasons, not for the good of Arsenal.
We have been through all this before with Anelka, who wasted Wenger’s entire summer the season he left. I think this could happen again with Reyes, and yet this summer we really need Wenger entirely focused on bringing in new players, not keeping players who obviously don’t want to be here.
April 21st, 2005 at 2:25 pm
i think its the latter
April 21st, 2005 at 2:32 pm
Hey, that’s not true. I made some very positive posts after the Blackburn game, I was delighted with the teams attitude.
You have to remember that Chelsea have injuries too, Feirrera & Robben are big misses for them. They miss 2, we miss 3.
You have to be realistic about these kids Stag, yes they are promising, but how many are likely to make it? Flamini sits behind Vieira, Edu, Gilberto, and Fabregas. Cesc will be a world beater in 2 years when he grows physically, I am delerious about this kid - he is superb. Senderos looks very promising, but no more than that. Van persie is in the balance. Reyes is gone, forget him, Clichy is mere back up for Cole. I can’t see Quincy, Bentley, Hoyte, Lupoli or Aliadiere ever making it at Arsenal, they will all leave within 2 years.
Unfortunately, the only positive thing to say this season is that we can win the FA Cup over Utd, which would be wonderful. But I have never been less optimistic playing them they always seem to have the tactical edge on us now. How can I be optimistic when we have won only 2 of our last 13 games against Liverpool, Man U, Chelsea & Spurs ??
But, beating Utd would save our season and shut my mouth up until August that’s for sure.
April 21st, 2005 at 2:37 pm
I don’t think trezu is past it yet he is only 27. I do like Pizarro as well but he isnt much younger at 26. We may go for Trezu, because you know TH14 wants this and I dare say he has a lot of sway with the club
April 21st, 2005 at 2:54 pm
Well, I agree Senderos had to deal with long balls last night, but he’s had quite a lot to deal with for the last ten games or so, including the international ties. And how many goals have gone in? And the jury’s out on the TA throne, but he certainly has earned the mention, hasn’t he? Even when he gets burned, apparently strikers are too busy to shoot straight. But then again, Drogba has one of the poorest finishes in the top half of the table in my opinion.
And we can’t talk about Pool without also talking about PSV. Neither were picked to be there, and many that were are not. The tourney is a crap shoot a lot of times, and English teams are finally showing again that they can stick it out with all the fixtures. Tactics do win tournaments, just as injuries take you out of them. It just so happens that we didn’t have the cover for Gilberto AND Edu. For a team that likes to throw numbers forward like we do, that is a big, big deal. I won’t accept that Pool are where they are because of anything they’ve done better than us. Its mental, in my opinion, and Rafa has said as much. In fact, the mentality and frequent fragility of our team is where I lay the blame on Wenger and his choice of leaders.
I agree, Reyes hasn’t produced. But like many of Wenger’s picks, if we didn’t snatch him up, someone else’s site would be talking about him right now. Not Wenger’s fault entirely. He’s still produced more than a lot of so-called big money purchases out there. Can you say Harry Kewell? He was rated at 50 mill at one point if you can believe that.
I think we can beat any team with the way we play, and the last few games have shown me that we’re finding the mental strength to get results regardless of the size of the game. Once the stadiujm is out of the way, we can start stacking the triple deep to beat the one phoney franchise that has pipped us to the title.
April 21st, 2005 at 2:55 pm
Well, you have some logical points here.
Edu is gone. Vieira, Gilberto, Cesc, & Flamini are a good central midfield. Think of it that way. Cesc & Flamini can play in the league cup, FA Cup, some league matches, and if Vieira & Gilberto are injured.
Cole could be gone. Personally, I hope he is.
Clichy would be the starter. Regardless, Clichy has played a fair amount of games this year, and at worst is an adequate back-up for Cole.
If we were to bring in… Trezegaut (spelling?), as he supposedly said he’d like to come and play along side Henry… then I’d say Ali & Reyes should go. They need to play all the time if they are to progress to the next level.
Thats the big issue. The big catch 22.
If we buy a defender - midfielder - striker
the kids will not play much. You don’t bring in a star player to rotate with a 20 year old. It doesn’t make sense for either player.
I totally disagree on some of the kids.
Lupoli for example. His games/goals ratio is UNBELIEVABLE. He scores whenever he plays. He will make it. Quincy should make it, great pace. I think Aliadiare is the most talented of them all. If he didn’t have such HORRIBLE luck with injuries, he’d already be a star.
yes, the jury is still out on some of the youngsters, but nobody has the crop of young potentially great players that we have. That in itself is something to be very positive about.
I still say our recent record against Chelsea stands for itself. We own them. They’ve only won ONCE against us in the last 5 years.
April 21st, 2005 at 3:27 pm
Your final paragraph is exactly how I feel about the season as well. I’m so proud of the club for accomplishing what it has. I look at some other leagues’ standings… particularly last night I noticed Roma lost to Siena 0-2. That puts Roma in 12th place in Serie A! That’s a Champions League-quality club! And they crapped out of the CL much worse than we did! I’m happy as hell that our young, injury-riddled squad has played a season with heart and honor and still has the chance to play for a trophy! 99% of the other clubs in English Football would kill to be in the position we’re in, so I applaud and support AW and the players.
Cheers to you for your support of the Gunners.
April 21st, 2005 at 3:32 pm
Reyes is off form and unlucky.
But he’s still a decent player and is still far better than some people think.
He need to adpat his game, and keep things simple.
He’s far from the waste people think.
He’s commited in his game and can make the difference. We know it.
April 21st, 2005 at 3:49 pm
i agree……reyes though did not have a great game playe ok.i think he is not at the same wavelength.
I think arsene will be justified by the faith he is showing in him.cause i am sure the pressure to recover money is not there..as proved by jeffers and with madrid thing on.
it is what reyes is showing him….off the field..which is convincing arsene…i really hope this is the case…
just see reyes next season.cause if arsene was convinced that he was going….he would be playing jeremi…
April 21st, 2005 at 4:35 pm
Why is he unlucky? We all know he is a great player, but unfortunately he rarely shows it, and doesn’t seem to want to show it at Arsenal. If you think he’s committed then you’re watching a different Arsenal to the one I am. I see a player counting down the games until he can go to Real Madrid.
April 21st, 2005 at 5:00 pm
Drogba beat Send? a few times, but he had been mostly shepherded into harmless positions. Sometimes the only way to stop a player is by foul, you have to be intelligent and not give away a penalty or dangerous free kick. I think he was okay (He was British Airways Man of the Match), and like we say he’s just a kid. Does he even have ten Premiership games to his name? He’s twenty and I don’t think the TA comparison is unfair. Remember Cygan, for crying out loud. Even Terry makes mistakes. You can?t always force things.
Look at the kids and see the future. I think many will make it, unless they don?t get the playing time, which may be dictated by things like injury and form, since Wenger seldom rotates. Look at ManU and besides all the ageing stars, heroes from yesteryear like Scholes, Keane and Giggs, who else do you see? Rooney and Ronaldo, maybe but despite all Ferg’s spending there is no ManU of the future rising. From where I sit they can only get worse, and their increasingly frequent slip ups show it. And top teams don’t sell their best players, unless you pay crazy money, which they don?t have. The contrast should be enough to remind you how great a job Wenger has done. Despite all the trials this season we we?re only pipped by the most voracious spending machine the soccer world has ever, and will probably ever see. Give the guy some credit. It comes easy to him, so it?s easy to take it for granted. We COULD be Newcastle, Liverpool, or Spurs, they spend as much, if not more than us, and Wenger is the only reason why we aren?t.
April 21st, 2005 at 5:24 pm
You don’t see the game if you’re watching it too early as you do in north america. Then there’s too much commercial.
You must not forget that you cannot fully evaluated a player just one season. He show he’s got what’s needed to make it.
Give him one more year.
Any manager would.
But you are not one.
Do you listen Arsene and read his interviews ?
April 21st, 2005 at 5:31 pm
So do I unfortunately
April 21st, 2005 at 7:10 pm
I don’t live in America, I live 4 miles from Arsenal Football Club.
Reyes has been at Arsenal for 1 1/2 seasons, his talent should be consistently coming through by now. But there is a reason that it isn’t. Don’t you remember the hoax phone call when he said he didn’t like it at Arsenal and wanted to leave? It was a bad trick, but the words came from his mouth. He is not happy in England, it shows in his football, he shows no commitment. He wants out, and it doesn’t really matter what Wenger says, just like when Wenger spent a whole season saying Anelka would stay and he left too.
There is no point reading Wenger’s interviews, because he speaks mostly garbage to the press, like most managers do. If you pay much attention to what managers say after a game about players then you are naieve.
I don’t blame Wenger for buying Reyes, I thought he would be awesome. But it’s gone wrong, which is not Wenger’s fault - but it is his fault to still play him.
April 21st, 2005 at 11:10 pm
i don’t see how you can say that he shows no commitment. he may not be scoring goals now but every time he plays he runs his ass off. he is always chasing lost causes and balls back to the keeper or a deep lying defender. and he often harries them into making poor clearances or passes.
you see what you want to see, but you’re blinded by hate towards reyes.
April 22nd, 2005 at 7:08 am
sweet jesus, tiago took one leg and then the next - that usually results in someone falling over. I don’t know how you think reyes was meant to stay on his feet and you must have a pretty poor opinion of him if you thinkhe would dive when he had beaten 2 players and it had opened up in front of him. Next time you’re playing, have one of your mates take both your legs away while you’re running and see if you remain on your feet.
April 22nd, 2005 at 8:38 am
You make an interesting point, Ashu. Part of the fun of posting is speculation, but we have no idea how he’s doing on the training field. He may be schooling our defense. His match mentality needs work, but Wenger believes it will present itself. It did with Henry.
We have to be patient, I guess. Which is a tough thing for a Gooner to be.
April 22nd, 2005 at 12:44 pm
I didn’t see him chasing anyone against Chelsea, but I did see him standing around doing nothing for large parts of the game. I do not hate Reyes, it’s just that it’s obvious he doesn’t want to be there, he even said it, so why play him?
April 22nd, 2005 at 1:10 pm
Danny,
it’s very interesting when you say:
“There is no point reading Wenger’s interviews, because he speaks mostly garbage to the press, like most managers do. If you pay much attention to what managers say after a game about players then you are naieve.
“
DO YOU READ ANYTHING IN THE PRESS ?
April 22nd, 2005 at 9:08 pm
“Furthermore, why make ridiculous statements about Senderos being the next Adams, when Drogba made a fool out of him twice but made a complete hash of his first finish, then failed to square a simple five yard pass for an open goal to Joe Cole. Had those of gone in it would have been a very different attitude to Senderos this morning, but you all seem to ignore those calamatous mistakes, the sort of mistakes that usually see you buried at the top level.”
Except that the reason Drogba missed one of those chances was that Senderos’ (& I believe Cole was behind him) positioning on the shot gave Drogba about 18 inches of the goal to hit & the shot would’ve had to nutmeg Senderos & gone between about a 15-18 inch gap to Cole’s left.
Also, Danny, if… I hate when analysts both professional & amateur like ourselves use if when making a point. If is useless. If my grandmother would’ve had nuts, she’d've been my grandfather but the fact is she doesn’t. IF Drogba had score on both occasions, fine, send Senderos packing with Wenger who is obviously a moron. By the way, send Henry packing too since he was injured for a big game & IF he was healthy he might’ve scored 3 to offset Drogba’s 2 IF goals & we would’ve won, 3-2 unless we would’ve also scored on Pires’ 1st shot that hit the bar, b/c IF it would’ve gone in, we would’ve won 1-0 & offset Drogba’s 2 IFs that DIDN’T go in & we would’ve beat Chelsea on goals & in the amount of IFs.
So to counter your Senderos IF, IF Senderos would’ve been better on 2 plays, we would’ve kept another clean sheet with him in there… oh wait… we did. So again, 2 mistakes as a 20 year old center back against a seasoned striker, I can live with, but i know you can’t Danny. Nothing less than a quadruple, excuse me quintuple sweep of trophies (I almost forgot about the Charity Shield), going unbeaten & untied & unscored upon is acceptable to ‘ol Danny T, obviously the best fan Arsenal has, definitely a better fan than myself, although that always posed a question to me, what makes you a better fan just b/c you get more pissed off when we don’t win? And why does a supporter have to be pissed when we lose? Seems that politics & religion don’t have the monopoly on fanaticism. SO have it, Danny, you’re a better fan than me.
April 22nd, 2005 at 9:15 pm
Except that Livepool is currently in 6th & will not be playing in the CL next year, so if they don’t win it this year, they won’t have a CL trophy. And those injuries which you don’t want to use an as an excuse may hace caused Liverpool to be languishing in that 6th spot right.
You know who will have a shot at winning a CL trophy next year, Danny? That’s right, Arsenal. Where will Liverpool be next year? UEFA Cup.
April 22nd, 2005 at 9:27 pm
And a lot of Lupoli’s goals in the reserves (from the footage I’ve seen) are those poacher type goals like Pires seems to score all the time right now. Although he hit a 25 yd. screamer from a tight angle (probably had no more total area than 4 or 5 feet above the keepers’ waist to shoot at) in the reserve derby against Spurs the other night.
There’s also an Irish teenager in the reserves named Anthony Stokes (I think he’s 16, possibly 17 yrs. old) who is supposed to be pretty darn good as well. He has some nice touch & creativity for that age (again from the little footage I have seen)& I believe he plays that attacking midfield/half-striker/part-winger position.