I don’t understand why these days whatever words coming out from Wenger’s mouth, it has become “EXCUSE” to some people?
Take the latest Reyes debate on this site as an example, Wenger said Reyes did well in training and start to improving. Ok, on the pitch, to be fair, none of us has seen any sign of improvement from Reyes. This is a FACT. But what has Reyes’ failure to deliver so far to do with “excuse” [from Wenger]? Personally, I think people are starting to overuse this word.
Imagine if you were the manager: you had spent 2 years’ time tracking the progress of this talented Spanish youngster before finally signed him with a big money transfer fee. What does that mean? That means you have total FAITH in this kid.
Then you realize he has not progressed as quickly as you expected. And he’s been clearly struggling to cope with the physical side of the Premiership.
So what would you do? Totally give up on him? You wouldn’t unless you don’t believe your own judgement. As a championship manager, and I don’t mean the PC game, the first quality you must have is to BELIEVE IN YOURSELF. Because if you don’t, how do you expect your players would believe in you?
Then you look into your squad, noticed there is a certain number 14 striker who was once a winger. You decided he got everything it took to be a top class striker, even the player himself wasn’t sure about that. It took the young winger half a season to finally transform himself into a striker who could score. Despite all the negative comments from the media and fans likewise, you persisted with your belief. And now he’s one of the best strikers in the world.
Then you saw the number 7 wide midfielder. You bought him as a relatively unknown to replace your superstar winger Marc Overmars. People thought you were crazy, and the new number 7’s indifferent first season performance could hardly change people’s opinion. As with the number 14, people started to question you why would you want to be such a “pighead” to persist playing a player when he clearly not up to the job, and while we had other players in the squad who probably could do better for you? Yes, you know you are a pighead, but that’s only because you BELIEVE in yourself. And you know in order for the player to improve, the only way is to continue playing him.
The very next season, this certain number 7 played a vital part on winning you your second “double”. So, who’s the boss now?!
Now with this Spanish kid, once again, people are assuming you probably have lost your head by keep on playing him while he’s clearly not performing. Yet once again, you still believe in him, and you still believe in yourself. And you know that - the only way for this young forward to improve and to overcome the physical side of the Premiership is to continue playing him. So you say all the right words in front of the press. You may not 100 percent mean it, but this is the press you are talking to, not a priest. You will take the chance to show your confidence to the player, and get him to believe in himself. EXCUSE? Whatever. You know what you are doing. That’s the only thing matters.
Jose Antonio Reyes may have fallen to the ground a hundred time per game, but eventually he will find his feet. And when he does, everybody knows how much quality this kid got. Personally, I see this kid’s game could develop into a new Marc Overmars. The skill is there, the pace is there. Yet he’s still very raw. What he needs is to learn to play smarter, learn when to pass the ball, and don’t try to take on the whole defence by himself everytime the ball is on his feet. Learn to make early pass as this way no matter how physical the opposition defenders are, they won’t be able to stop you. Just watch and learn from Robert Pires.
One last matter. Why Wenger didn’t put in van Persie earlier in the Chelsea match? Let’s just look back to the game, has anyone noticed Chelsea never pushed everyone forward even when they were playing at home? I think it’s fair to say they were awared of Reyes’ pace and Bergkamp’s passing. It’s true once you put a defender on Reyes, he would fall over. But you gotta put a defender on him at the first place. If you leave him open, he would hurt you.
And has anyone noticed after we took off Bergkamp and Reyes, Chelsea took their game to us at the final ten minutes of the match? They started to push for a late goal, without Bergkamp’s passing, and Reyes’ pace, their defenders had more freedom going forward.
47 Responses to “Reyes - Read into Wenger’s mind”
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April 22nd, 2005 at 1:46 pm
Brilliant, Andez.
April 22nd, 2005 at 2:07 pm
I agree Reyes works very hard defensively. I wanted Dennis taken off early in the game but later he did provide some beautiful balls. Pity they were to Reyes, however, who promptly fell over or gave them away. I’m not critical of Reyes - it’s not something he can help - but you have to acknowledge the lack of a goal scorer was - is - a serious problem. I’d like van P to start in place of Dennis but, if he’s not doing much, take him off. There’s no reason not to do it that way round, is there? And there’s the long-term advantage that van P would get some much-needed experience.
April 22nd, 2005 at 3:26 pm
I feel a constant pressure on this site, no matters how the team performs.
On other arsenal’s fans sites, people are more realxed.
They moan, but they don’t take what they “want”, “like” or “think” for the holly book.
“I would”, could be help at times when “fans” try to share their tactical views.
It’s very difficult to predict a game, a season, a player, a career.
It’s like predicting your own future, or the future of your son.
How he will develop, fullfil his potential and cope with the pressure of his ambitions.
Professional football remains a human activity.
Computer gamers might be convinced they’ve got it right. There’s no surprise here, considering the stress and damage caused to their faculty and perception of reality.
They’ve a duplicated view of football.
THEY TRUST WHAT THEY KNOW BEST : THE COMPUTER.
This why we know a few lads here who are convinced they are better manager than Wenger.
THEY ARE SURE THEY WOULD HAVE WIN THE GAME, THE TROPHY, THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE.
They are convinced if they can’t, they are 100% sure they know about a manager who would have grabbed the CL for Arsenal.
I am not sure if I could manage Arsenal with all my footballing skills, managerial experience and University’s degree, I don’t feel confident about it.
I just try to watch the team, listen to the manager and the players, talk with fellow fans everywhere I can, that’s why I am more biaised towards the team or the manager than people who are sure they know better from better sources.
I try to focuse on the results (good and bad), the achievements, the ressources, the uncertainity factors such injuries, bad luck, to make a relative assessement I can update with my fellow gooners.
I’ve never thought I could do better someone else’s job before I try.
You can criticize though, but I strongly feel it should be related to the fact, all the facts and with all the respect du to others.
April 22nd, 2005 at 4:18 pm
i agree, many of us dudes would not have the first clue what to do if someone landed us on arsenal’s training ground and told us to emulate wenger. for one, vieira would probably smack me after half an hour of whining about his displays!
but, it has been proved many times that wenger is far from flawless when it comes to recognising potential problems. for instance, when we sold silvinho i vented to all and sundry about our lack of replacement for ashley cole. but i held off thinking wenger had something up his sleeve; that something was gio van bronckhorst; a good player but a disaster at left back.
so what does wenger say at the end of the season? he talks about how we didn’t have back-up for ashley cole and we suffered. i couldn’t believe what i was hearing. it was then i realised that the great man was human like the rest of us and had an alarming lack of foresight to go with it.
thats why these days i and many other arsenal fans voice our concerns because wenger has proved them right time and time again, when those concerns are realised in front of our very eyes.
April 22nd, 2005 at 4:26 pm
This article is nonsense, because it doesn’t take into account what everybody knows but you and others continually choose to ignore - Reyes has said he is not happy at Arsenal, wants to leave, and will do so if Real Madrid make a bid for him.
Wenger might have faith in Reyes ability, we all do, but how can he have faith in his commitment? How can Wenger accurately gauge whether Reye’s poor performance is down to lack of form or lack of commitment?
In my eyes, Reyes didn’t try that hard against Chelsea, he wasn’t chasing balls, he looks fed up and couldn’t be bothered - his performace wasn’t just bad, it was pathetic. This is where Wenger is WRONG. He should play someone who IS motivated and wants to be with the club, and the fact that there are other strikers who are straining at the leash to play, it is an insult to them that Reyes is ahead of them, considering not only his bad form, but his comments on Spanish radio.
Wenger is being stubborn and pig-headed. And he will look a fool for persisting with Reyes if, as I expect, Real will make their move in the Summer and he demands to leave. Reyes should be dropped, pronto.
April 22nd, 2005 at 6:22 pm
It took Henry about 2 mos to make the transition to playing upfront. This was a world cup winner who had a bad season or so at Juventus so it is not exactly a good example of Arsene unearthing a hidden gem. A great buy. Yes
I don’t blame anyone but I do think that Reyes is an underperforming and over rated football player who is attracting little or no interest from any team other than Real . We need to try and get some money back and I think that is why we are seeing him in the team when there are other players who are more deserving of that place.
Again, I think this is shrewd on the part of Wenger who understands more than anyone how the world transfer markets work. I do also however feel sorry for Van P, Quincy and Aliadiere who all would have scored and created as many goals as Reyes if they had been given the chance and also would not have made the comments that he has made more than once. Some people might give him the benefit of the doubt with these but you don’t here this cr@p from henry and he is asked exactly the same questions.
I have said it before. Reyes= bad buy. I don’t blame anyone as for every Reyes we get a Senderos,Quincy,Cesc etc but it is becoming more and more obvious that our record buy is not what we expected.
Anyway, a mate just called to tell me I can have his ticket for Mon night so life isn’t that bad.
April 22nd, 2005 at 6:24 pm
That Reyes is a HUGE talent is beyond dispute. That he isn’t happy in London is also obvious. It’s also obvious that:
1. Reyes would not be in the team if he was a youth product. I think that Quincy is just as talented and when the time comes I hope Wenger shows the same patience.
2. He would not be in the team if he didn’t cost so much
3. His being in the team represents a lost opportunity. He ruins too many moves, loses the ball and takes the place of someone else who could really be doing something useful. Just imagine if RvP was getting that playing time. He has gotten better during his time at Arsenal, can the same be said of Reyes?
Let’s stop fooling ourselves about his performances; he’s been abysssmal. That Chelsea played better after the subs came in, really means nothing, they came in late and in any case, the game had been flowing back and forth the whole while.
Anyway now we’re stuck with him. I just think if a good offer comes he should be sold, period. But right now even Madrid will be foolish to pay $10 Million for him.
April 22nd, 2005 at 7:40 pm
Real wouldn’t be foolish, because he’s playing badly for a reason. He’s not committed. If he went to Real we would all see a different player before long.
As for the suggestion that Wenger is being “shrewd” by playing Reyes to get some money for him, that would be completely unprofessional management. Wenger is supposed to pick players to win matches, not pick them to give the illusion they are good so he can make money out of them.
April 22nd, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Stubborn and pig-headed? C’mon, man, what choice does he have? He’s GOT to go with his gut. It’s the whole point of Andez’s “nonsense” article. Reyes, none to bright in my opinion, got caught saying what others are always thinking. You ask, “How can Wenger gauge whether Reye’s poor performance (and by that I assume you mean goal scoring?) is down to lack of form or lack of commitment? That’s just it, isn’t it? He’s got to play his hand.
Should Wenger send Reyes out in the middle of his, for all intents and purposes, inaugaral season? Danny, you want heads on a plate and that’s just not very diplomatic for a manager in Wenger’s position. Andez laid out quite eloquently why he’s stood by this kid. And I emphasize KID. Pulling Reyes at this point is worthless and pointless. The fact that you feel he’s not motivated is fair, but subjective. And you put your opinion up against the very man who’s career depends on it. Unreal how we jump on this guy’s back when we can sit back and nitpick at what we consider “motivation”. None of us have any idea what kinds of conversations are happening at Shenley. Hey, you live close, why not check it out for us?
If Reyes falls flat, Wenger will look no more the fool than every successful manager with books to balance. Look at Alan Smith, look at Harry Kewell and Milan Baros, where the heck is stepover queen Ronaldo in the last five games for United. For that matter, Rooney. I agree, we’ve paid a lot of dough for this kid and not gotten our money’s worth. And I’m on our side when you say you want Wenger to send him off. But we’ve got a handful of games to play and you, me and everyone lese who believes in the red and white knows what the kid can do. Play him out and then make your decision.
If Real make their move in the summer, we’ll know. But its not the summer. Its crunch time.
April 22nd, 2005 at 8:07 pm
LET’S BE PATIENT
April 22nd, 2005 at 8:36 pm
Danny T, you don’t have faith in our manager, you don’t have faith in many of our players. Just curious: WHY did you SUPPORT Arsenal at the first place?….
Btw, do you want to support a WINNING team? or ARSENAL?
April 22nd, 2005 at 8:43 pm
What a crazy site.
April 22nd, 2005 at 10:22 pm
Andez,
As a man’s whose view I respect and admire a lot, I feel you’re missing Danny’s point a little here. I watched that Chelsea game and Reyes didn’t really want to be there. He was doing the professional things of tracking back but you could just tell he was playing within himself obviously had enough of being kicked. But that was a crucial game psychologically and after 45 mins Wenger Should have substituted him.
The problem as I see it with Wenger’s way of handling this Reyes Issue is that it discourages the like of Aliadeire, vPersie and Quincy, who are desperate to prove themselves for Arsenal. It shows them that there’s a clear ranking and favourites system operating, not based on form, application or attitude. This is very demoralising I feel.
Secondly, the worst thing about our Captains previous form was that you could tell his heart was not on the pitch. He was just playing through the motions and Arsene just carried on playing him!!?!
When will Wenger put the Club over a player? When will he say to a ‘favoured’ player (in deed, i.e. by who or what we see on the pitch) as much as I know you’re having a hard time or undecided the Club is bigger than any one person. If you’re not 100% committed to the cause then you’re not worthy of the shirt / Jersey!! At least for a game or 2. ( I think Pires is the only person of late that Wenger has done something remotely like that with)
That?s where SAF has one over Wenger. As I said in my last post, these are some of Arsene?s faults, we pray he snaps out of it as he is a God send to AFC but please lets call a spade by its name and stop glossing everything over.
April 22nd, 2005 at 11:19 pm
Well that’s why I’m so critical or Reyes, his getting a chance others never seem to have and wasting it. Others like Quincy, Bentley, Ali, RvP show promise and can barely get a game, and this guy keeps on treating us to his rubbish, week in, week out. Nobody is doubting his talent, but his heart is not here, so let him go.
April 22nd, 2005 at 11:55 pm
I always find it ludicrous that people accuse Danny T of essentially being a glory hunter. I believe that, among many here, Danny is the most loyal to Arsenal in that he believes no player or manager ought to be above criticism. To me that shows that Danny’s love is for his club, and not simply the players who happen to be plying their trade there.
In contrast, supporters like Stag have openly admitted that they would be less interested in seeing their club in person if his favourite players (notably Vieira) were no longer on the roster. (This is undeniable - Stag has said this on a number of occasions during our verbal sparring.) In contrast to this type of “supporter,” it is really amazing that Danny’s loyalty is under scrutiny. Danny knows the potential of this current Arsenal side, and that if they don’t live up to their potential than they have done Arsenal Football Club a great disservice.
Keep right on, Danny.
April 23rd, 2005 at 3:39 am
Gooner London, Afrikan Gooner & Clarkey, you all are spot on!
To be honest I may not agree all the time with Danny T’s dooms day analogy of things but I don’t doubt his support for Arsenal.
On current form, it was criminal to play Reyes in a crunch game with the Stamford Brdge Russians. And going through the same motion of falling down, loosing possession (you know the drill by now) should dawn on someone that he should be not playing, or at least be substituted early.
I guess we (the talk bad about Reyes/Bergkemp & disagreeing with Wenger camp) all just fail to see or wasn’t paying attention to the finer things that the two did throughout the match, which supposedly was to draw their defenders in front of them because of their respective pace & good passing, and therefore stiffling Chelski’s attack.
No! You missed out an adjective: POTENTIAL pace & good passing. The astonishing pace of Reyes falling was really something, sorry about the passing though because Dennis made just one good pass.
Strikers are not all supposed to just draw defenders to them all of the time, but sometimes they have to go pass them and perhaps score? Was that part of a striker’s purpose evident in the game? Or were we also not paying attention.
Chelsea did not come for us because they were cautious and wanted to draw rather than to win. Yes they know that we may stuff them with a much more open game, naturally they would put defenders in front of the goal, did you expect anything less? They would have done so even if Duncan Ferguson, Dickov or even Postiga were our strikers. But our 2 strikers were ineffective to create chances, nevermind scoring! This is the gist of it. We needed to win, they didn’t.
Who got the better deal with a 0-0 scoreline?
April 23rd, 2005 at 4:42 am
Thanks for the support guys.
I suppose it is unfortunate that I only found this site in Arsene’s worst year as a football manager of Arsenal. Nearly all other seasons you would have heard a very different Danny T.
I’m just trying to balance up some views around here, for as many people who tell me I am over the top in my negativity, I see just as many who are completely blind to what is happening at the club.
I mean, it’s not as if I’m ALWAYS wrong is it. I predicted Arsenal would do nothing against Chelsea with Reyes & Bergkamp up front, and Wenger finished the game with the exact formation that I suggested he should have started with.
Furthermore, if he plays Bergkamp & Reyes up front against Tottenham, we’ll lose. Unfortunately, he doesn’t have many options, but he has to try them. Reyes doesn’t care anymore, and Bergkamp has a batch of good games early in every season, and then gets progressively worse until the end.
We all know Arsene loves his statistics, he seems to live by them. By sometimes he seems to completely miss the bigger picture. I wish I didn’t have to moan, but I don’t want Arsenal to keep throwing seasons away with this batch of players, especially in Europe where we have been totally inept in every of his seven seasons.
Every time Arsenal win the title, which is fabulous, Wenger throws the next season away by failing to build on his success - he sits still every single time. I know some of this is down to money, but that’s not a realistic excuse - why doesn’t he buy cheap experienced players, instead of kids of never end up playing? This season he’s been forced to because of injuries, otherwise Fabregas, Flamini, Van Persie, Senderos still wouldn’t have had a sniff. And many of the kids in the reserves wouldn’t either, and in my opinion still won’t.
April 23rd, 2005 at 4:45 am
If you’re on this site then you’re an Arsenal fan end of story. It’s not about glory hunting or how passionat you are. Whether one person is right or wrong it is just an opinion.
Would anyone be shouting for RvP to play had he not bagged two goals late in the game against Blackburn?
Would you have being banging the drum for him if his last meaningful contribution had been to get sent off in the game against the Saints.
And I wonder how many would be criticising Reyes if he’d scored the winner against Chelsea.
And what if he scores the winner against United inthe Cup, kisses the badge and comes on TV and says how much he wants to prove himself at Arsenal, then is it all change again.
As of right now it sounds like he’s unhappy, apparently he’s picked up the nickname vertigo because after training he rarely goes upstairs to the dining area with the rest of the squad.
But essentially we just don’t know, we can’t know, because even if he is unhappy now he may yet settle.
Anelka was reported to be unhappy for months but it didn’t stop him on the pitch, and the reason he was played was because he was the best in his position.
But what I cannot get my head round is people second-guessing the manager. saying who he should play. Are you there every day at training to see how a player is doing? Do you have access to their stats? Do you know what injuries they are carrying? Do you know exactly how a player is going to perform in any given match?
If you can answer yes to any of these questions you shouldn’t be wasting your time on this site, you should be a top manager in Europe.
April 23rd, 2005 at 5:56 am
How can you describe this as Arsene’s ‘worst year as a football manager at Arsenal’ And then use it to justify some of your opinions?
If’ he’s had a’bad’ year it was 99/00 when the team was clearly intransition with a lot of the old guard defence going out and the midfield losing Petit. But by those standards finishing anything other than 1st in the Premiership is a bad year, which is completely unrealistic.
What I see in your comments is someone who has fixed his view and then watches a game looking for every conceivable action within the 90 minutes to justify it. You don’t know what goes on for the other six days of the week in training.
You also talk about committment, you are so sure that Reyes isn’t committed to playing well. If as you claim he wants out, if he plays crap then he’ll never get a move to Real, so it is in his interests to play as well as possible to ensure they come in for him. And if it was already a done deal then Wenger would treat him as he treated Wiltord, Edu and every other player who didn’t have a future at the club. By not playing them.
This doesn’t mean Reyes is definitely staying, that may well be in the balance in the players mind and as you say if Real make a move, but it’s not affecting his game.
Were you complaining about how Vieira played last season, he too was very close to joining Real in the summer?
What Wenger has done transfer wise this year was pretty much to plan. He said at the end of the unbeaten season that he was going to give the kids a chance, the only player he was looking for was a right sided defender/midfielder.
You are entitled to your opinion on who he should have bought but no manager envisages losing Gilberto and Edu for virtually the whole season, Sol for big chunks and have Vieira underperforming for the first half.
Had all those factors not been been as issue for Arsenal this season are you so sure that we wouldn’t be going neck and neck for the title with Chelsea right now?
The arrival of Clichey/Cesc/Flamini/Senderos has gone far better than we could have hoped these players will form the backbone of our side for the next decade. They have been brought in through the academy system, they will know wht it means to play for Arsenal and they will have worked hard to get into the side. Over the long haul these are the players that win you trophies not the 30 million pound one-off who is guaranteed a place in the team and is bought in to complete the picture.
You talk about buying experienced players. WHY? Boro did it and look where that has got them, before them that was how Chelsea operated and they were only good enough for the odd cup run. And the finest example of what buying big names does over the long haul is Real Madrid.
Scouring the world for the best young players is the only way forward in modern football. And we lead the way. Abramovich has temporarily distorted the picture, but had he not been around to give Chelsea a massive financial advantage we’d be talking about winning back-to-back titles.
TV money looks like it has reached its peak, maybe a few of the top clubs will break away and cut themselves indiviual deals to squeeze a little more juice from the lemon. But player wages are still rocketing and the risk involed in bringing in an expensive player is so high now that it is far safer and sounder financially to bring them through the youth ranks so that they are well schooled in the club’s ways and you know their character.
The other thing you claim is that Wenger is tactically limited. If it is so limited how do you account for the unprecedented success? How do you account for how much the players improve under his guidance?
All the top managers want to get to where Wenger is now with his team. He wants other teams to have to change the way they play to accomodate our strengths, even Mourinho has admitted that, that is his objective. Even every team in the Champions League change the way they play to counter our game, that’s a compliment, except apparently for you.
This isn’t ‘blind faith’ as you claim so many people who comment on this site have, it is about watching teams other than our own and seeing what they do compared to us.
We’re at the top of the tree with a number of other big, big teams because of Wenger and he’s done it on far less money than any of them. We’ve got fantastic training facilities and a world class stadium to move into after next season. It’s been part of a long-term plan which has been laden with trophies.
This season, when looked back upon in a few years time will be seen as the step back before we leaped forward again. It’s been tough at times because of how well we did last season, but there have been good reasons for that as I explained above, but the very fact that we went an entire season unbeaten only last year with a team that still hasn’t fully matured should give everyone who suports the club reasons for optimism- except that is for you.
April 23rd, 2005 at 7:37 am
Three interpretations:
1 Wenger’s pigheaded;
2 He believes that, if he shows faith in him, there’s a chance Reyes will stay and recover his form;
3 He accepts he will go, but playing him keeps up his value. To bench him now could cost us money we need?
I’d like to believe 2, and in its favour is the fact that Wenger actually knows Reyes and sees him everyday - which we, incidentally, do not. It’s absurd to suggest that Reyes isn’t doing his best. If that were true, he’d have ben a different player when he came on for Spain. Which he wasn’t. Clearly, his loss of form is deep-seated - the product of unhappiness here and a growing lack of confidence in his ability - and unfortunately the longer it lasts the worse it must get. I’m not optimistic he’ll recover if he stays, but I think he was, up till November, an infinitely better player for us than van P. For his sake, I think he should leave, but I desperately hope that I’m wrong.
April 23rd, 2005 at 7:52 am
Andez,
I am 100% with you.
You are 100% right about Danny T.
Danny T can you tell who and what do you appreciate in Arsenal ?
Who are you to tell us that ARsene Wenger is doing his worst season ?
Do you think we are all brainless to let you deverse your dayly venon on a poor frenchman ?
What’s your point ?
“Arsenal’s doing a bad season”, how can people be so stupid ?
Because Chelsea is winning his first league since 50 years or because we failed in regard of our previous years under Arsene ?
Arsenal’s doing his second best season under Wenger. PERIOD.
Everything you come out with are **AYE CARUMBA**(censored) you get after a game.
Can you plan to win to win a game ?
You said in a previous that you doens’t even listen to Wenger because everything he says “is garbage for the press”.
Where are your source if not food journalists.
When you accuse someone on the dayly bais as you do with Arsene, you should at least listen to him.
In the court you are not sentenced before you defend your case.
If a Arsene’s as bad as you say, you must in your turn the worst fan a football club can have.
It’s a complete disgrace to read you every day.
Give us a little break from time to time.
WHy do you want to hate our team. Every comment from you is meant to undersetimate the team.
This is not about football.
The strategy of the dayly attack on the team is meant to get a change in the management.
I just can’t believe it’s just an unhappy fan who is just moaning.
We are all fans. we can change. We are happy today, unhappy tomorow and we all moan, but there’s a limit in everything.
April 23rd, 2005 at 8:26 am
Arsenal may yet finish second, with our second highest points total, and win the FA cup. If that happens can this be considered Wenger’s worse season ever? Why don’t we wait to judge?
April 23rd, 2005 at 9:00 am
Danny T, god only knows how you found supporting Arsenal in the 70s, 80s and 90s, you must’ve been on the early version of prozac or in therapy for long periods.
Like you I am overall disappointed with the season, but I’m realistic enough to know that things could have been different - losing silva and edu for large parts of the season deifinitely cost arsenal. Remember we started the season with team that had gone unbeaten for a season in the league, we had let some expereinced players go in the shape of Keown, Kanu and more importantly Parlour and Wiltord (both of whom wanted to go) and elevated young players into the squad. This was to be Aliadierie’s breakthrough year, he got injured in the charity shield. Fabregas was also to be given more playing time. Bentley was sent on loan to see if he could become stronger and more consistent and prove himself a viable replacement for Bergkamp. Pennant was given one last chance. Angulo, who would have basically taken Wiltord’s place in the squad pulled out of his deal at the 11th hour. At the start of the season Wenger said Senderos needed 6 months in the reserves, not worrying about 1st team football to build himself up and then he would be considered for 1st team selection and that’s what happened. Other than that our youngters are a team capable of beating Man City, Everton (with Gravesen) and lost out to a defensive slip against a Man U reserve team with 7 internationals - it says alot about our first team that these undoubtedly talented kids have to wait their turn, you have to be very, very good to make out first team squad. Players like Quincy, who looks a talent, may make it, it’s not a huge failure if they don’t - Quincy himself says he needs to become more direct and cut out some his tricks to become a more effective player, here’s hoping. Van Persie was told 6 months to adapt and then you can expect to get playing time, this is exactly what happened, he was good in his in the cup semi, but I would hardly say he has been brilliant otherwise and automatically deserved a place in the team, again here’s hoping he becomes an Arsenal legend. We have a great bunch of youngters and if 4 or 5 of them make it into the first team we should consider that a major success for the coaching staff - as it is we have Clichy, Fabregas and Senderos who look to be the finished article. Fabregas chose to leave Barcelona and come to Arsenal because he thought he would have more of a chance of playing and that is why we attract some of the best youngsters in the world.
Last year in Europe, we lost the one game we have lost to Chelsea since they beat us in the league cup a good while back (over 20 games) and by then we looked knackered. Fair enough, we have not been as successful in Europe as you would think we should be with this bunch of players put together by Wenger at a cost of ?5m net spending per season. By your reckoning and mine we will only be judged a great team if we win the champions league, we certainly shouldn’t just be grateful to be there, we’re in it to win it and we have a great chance every year…can you really say that you knew Toure would make two of the worst defensive mistakes of his career against Bayern Munich - was that down to Wenger’s tactical ineptitude? Porto went through against United with a free-kick that Howard palmed backed into play in the final minute of the game and Man Ure had a perfectly good goal disallowed - does that make Mourihno a tactical genius? Valencia got knocked out of the champions league in the first group stage last year and ended up winning the UEFA cup and Liverpool got through their group with more or less the last kick of the game against Olympiakos - does that Rafa Benitez is a tactical master? Does the fact they beat Juventus mean that Capello is tactically inept? Ferguson is far from a tactically astute and fluked the win in 99, something he has been unable to repeat in spite of his massive spending. Etc, etc, etc. It’s all about small margins and they will run with us one day. The one valid complaint I can see is that we don’t always mix our play up enough. so defenders do know what is coming when they are going to play Arsenal -yup it may make us the top scorers in england every year, but it would be nice to have a player who was as good a partner to Henry as Bergkamp, scored 20 goals a season, was great in the air, pacy, aged 23 and a great passer - we tried to get Ibrahimovic before he went to Ajax but there was some kind of falling out over the fact we asked hiim for a trial and he thought he was too good to be asked, time has borne out, he’s a talented player with an attitude problem. We missed out, just like we did Petr Cech, and I cannot think of another such player that exists or certainly that we could afford. It’s a real world we live in and you don’t always get what you want. This brings me to Reyes, nobody can doubt that he is extremely talented - he was world class at the start of the season and if Wenger watched him 40 times before buying him I would say we did our research, he certainly has not been brilliant for most of the season, but the reason he started ahead of Van Persie is because he is more mobile, which causes John Terry problems (tactics eh), and he has a good record against Chelsea - 3 goals in 5 games I think. Van Persie had a great 10 minute cameo against a seriously fatugued, relegation hopeful team, and scored two class goals, but that does not mean he’s ready to face the meanest defence in europe, who positively gobble up strikers who are decent in the air, but lack pace. Reyes may have been duped into saying he’d like to join Real Madrid, well Vieira flirts them every year, but at least he’s not going round beating his fiancee up in nightclubs, humping old hookers, etc, he’s homesick and he’s 21 years old and he was involved in one dreadful incident with his national coach, who he stupidly sided with - as did smauel eto for some strange reason, but that’s another story. I believe in Reyes as a player and he will come good for us when he is more settled and the events of this year move behind him. Bergkamp probably won’t start against Tottenham, it will be Van Persie - Reyes (horses for courses), and I agree his influence wanes over the course of a season , he does start every season brilliantly, but until we have a player better than him, we go with him, he is still a hugely influential player for us.
Before the season started, Danny T, without the benefit of hindsight, who would you have signed with the ?10m we probably had available?
April 23rd, 2005 at 9:29 am
I myself didn’t criticize Reyes, did I? I just defended Danny’s right to criticize Reyes. You might not know who said it, but you might recognize the quote, “I may not agree with what you say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.” (It was Voltaire.)
And in any case, like we’ve all had a laugh about before, it isn’t as if all the idle speculation about things like who Arsene should sign or what formation Arsene should put out on any given day really matters - such talk is nothing more than daydreaming. The only thing Arsenal may allow their fans a say on is what kind of crisps they’ll sell at the Grove.
April 23rd, 2005 at 9:39 am
You’re right, Paul. Danny is clearly trying to effect a change of management at Arsenal. And what a cunning plan it is! It is common knowledge that perusing ArsenalAmerica is part of Arsene Wenger’s daily routine, in between eating breakfast and talking Reyes down from a window ledge. If we’re not careful with what we say, Arsene may suffer a nervous breakdown. As I said, a cunning plan…
April 23rd, 2005 at 9:47 am
Danny T, god only knows how you found supporting Arsenal in the 70s, 80s and 90s, you must’ve been on the early version of prozac or in therapy for long periods.
Like you I am overall disappointed with the season, but I’m realistic enough to know that things could have been different - losing silva and edu for large parts of the season deifinitely cost arsenal. Remember we started the season with team that had gone unbeaten for a season in the league, we had let some expereinced players go in the shape of Keown, Kanu and more importantly Parlour and Wiltord (both of whom wanted to go) and elevated young players into the squad. This was to be Aliadierie’s breakthrough year, he got injured in the charity shield. Fabregas was also to be given more playing time. Bentley was sent on loan to see if he could become stronger and more consistent and prove himself a viable replacement for Bergkamp. Pennant was given one last chance. Angulo, who would have basically taken Wiltord’s place in the squad pulled out of his deal at the 11th hour. At the start of the season Wenger said Senderos needed 6 months in the reserves, not worrying about 1st team football to build himself up and then he would be considered for 1st team selection and that’s what happened. Other than that our youngters are a team capable of beating Man City, Everton (with Gravesen) and lost out to a defensive slip against a Man U reserve team with 7 internationals - it says alot about our first team that these undoubtedly talented kids have to wait their turn, you have to be very, very good to make out first team squad. Players like Quincy, who looks a talent, may make it, it’s not a huge failure if they don’t - Quincy himself says he needs to become more direct and cut out some his tricks to become a more effective player, here’s hoping. Van Persie was told 6 months to adapt and then you can expect to get playing time, this is exactly what happened, he was good in his in the cup semi, but I would hardly say he has been brilliant otherwise and automatically deserved a place in the team, again here’s hoping he becomes an Arsenal legend. We have a great bunch of youngters and if 4 or 5 of them make it into the first team we should consider that a major success for the coaching staff - as it is we have Clichy, Fabregas and Senderos who look to be the finished article. Fabregas chose to leave Barcelona and come to Arsenal because he thought he would have more of a chance of playing and that is why we attract some of the best youngsters in the world.
Last year in Europe, we lost the one game we have lost to Chelsea since they beat us in the league cup a good while back (over 20 games) and by then we looked knackered. Fair enough, we have not been as successful in Europe as you would think we should be with this bunch of players put together by Wenger at a cost of ?5m net spending per season. By your reckoning and mine we will only be judged a great team if we win the champions league, we certainly shouldn’t just be grateful to be there, we’re in it to win it and we have a great chance every year…can you really say that you knew Toure would make two of the worst defensive mistakes of his career against Bayern Munich - was that down to Wenger’s tactical ineptitude? Porto went through against United with a free-kick that Howard palmed backed into play in the final minute of the game and Man Ure had a perfectly good goal disallowed - does that make Mourihno a tactical genius? Valencia got knocked out of the champions league in the first group stage last year and ended up winning the UEFA cup and Liverpool got through their group with more or less the last kick of the game against Olympiakos - does that Rafa Benitez is a tactical master? Does the fact they beat Juventus mean that Capello is tactically inept? Ferguson is far from a tactically astute and fluked the win in 99, something he has been unable to repeat in spite of his massive spending. Etc, etc, etc. It’s all about small margins and they will run with us one day. The one valid complaint I can see is that we don’t always mix our play up enough. so defenders do know what is coming when they are going to play Arsenal -yup it may make us the top scorers in england every year, but it would be nice to have a player who was as good a partner to Henry as Bergkamp, scored 20 goals a season, was great in the air, pacy, aged 23 and a great passer - we tried to get Ibrahimovic before he went to Ajax but there was some kind of falling out over the fact we asked hiim for a trial and he thought he was too good to be asked, time has borne out, he’s a talented player with an attitude problem. We missed out, just like we did Petr Cech, and I cannot think of another such player that exists or certainly that we could afford. It’s a real world we live in and you don’t always get what you want. This brings me to Reyes, nobody can doubt that he is extremely talented - he was world class at the start of the season and if Wenger watched him 40 times before buying him I would say we did our research, he certainly has not been brilliant for most of the season, but the reason he started ahead of Van Persie is because he is more mobile, which causes John Terry problems (tactics eh), and he has a good record against Chelsea - 3 goals in 5 games I think. Van Persie had a great 10 minute cameo against a seriously fatugued, relegation hopeful team, and scored two class goals, but that does not mean he’s ready to face the meanest defence in europe, who positively gobble up strikers who are decent in the air, but lack pace. Reyes may have been duped into saying he’d like to join Real Madrid, well Vieira flirts them every year, but at least he’s not going round beating his fiancee up in nightclubs, humping old hookers, etc, he’s homesick and he’s 21 years old and he was involved in one dreadful incident with his national coach, who he stupidly sided with - as did smauel eto for some strange reason, but that’s another story. I believe in Reyes as a player and he will come good for us when he is more settled and the events of this year move behind him. Bergkamp probably won’t start against Tottenham, it will be Van Persie - Reyes (horses for courses), and I agree his influence wanes over the course of a season , he does start every season brilliantly, but until we have a player better than him, we go with him, he is still a hugely influential player for us.
Before the season started, Danny T, without the benefit of hindsight, who would you have signed with the ?10m we probably had available?
April 23rd, 2005 at 10:08 am
Andez,
YOU ARE 100% RIGHT.
“Freedom of speech”, “fans’ right to moan”, are very nice concept.
The world doesn’t end with 2 principles.
There are a lot of principles besides the above principles.
People always misuse rules but are always prompt to use them to back their points.
Nobody should complain on this site if Danny T gets stick from others. He lives in criticism himself.
Every comment from him ends with a venon for Wenger. He knows better than the manager and he want it to know on any subject every time.
Danny T is such a GREAT MANAGER and a BIG STAR that he should accept criticism.
April 23rd, 2005 at 11:00 am
YES, Arsene Know. Brillant.
It’s doesn’t get any better!
April 23rd, 2005 at 11:11 am
I would have spent the ?10m on a top class defender.
Cygan has been pretty hopeless from day one, everybody knew he was not Premiership quality. In Campbell’s absence, Cygan’s errors completely destroyed the confidence of the defence single handedly. Toure panicked, Lehmann lost his trust in the defence and then the defence lost their trust in him. Top class cover for Campbell would have saved our season. Wenger gambled, he splashed out on a striker that we didn’t necessarily need instead of a defender that we definitely did need. He lost the gamble, and Arsenal lost their season. Bad management in my book.
April 23rd, 2005 at 11:22 am
Excellent comments.
I hope Danny T will read, and not just look at.
Do you know he never listen to Arsene Wenger, because he thinks it’s worthless.
Danny T got the best “sources” of information about the club and the players.
That’s why he’s convinced Wenger has failed and should have done better.
He even knows why Arsenal “failed”. It’s du to Wenger’s tactical weaknesses.
That’s why we wants to “balance things” here, because the others fans who supports Wenger are stupid or “overreacting”.
Danny T, T ? is GOD of justice and balance ?
April 23rd, 2005 at 11:27 am
Well who are you to tell us that Wenger is NOT having his worst season, Why are your positive opinions so right, and my negative opinions so wrong? Who are you to tell meI am a disgrace. Maybe you are the disgrace, as you sit there fawning and licking Wenger’s backside as if he is God himself. Call that being a supporter? I don’t.
This is Arsenal’s worst season because Wenger has made clamatous tactical and management decisions this season. I have already said numerous times that not every problem has been his fault, but plenty have been. His on field tactics are completely baffling at times, he is turning into the new Rainieri.
Stuff your statistics about Arsenal’s points total, statistics can say anything you want if you twist them enough. The standard of opposition in the Premiership is the worst it has ever been in Wenger’s entire reign at Arsenal, any fool can see that. Premiership teams are generally terrible at present, look at Chelsea, they have only lost one game and they play dreary 5-man-midfield long ball football. The bottom three in Spain or Italy would finish 4th, 5th and 6th in the Premiership.
Wenger does talk complete garbage to the press, because telling the truth doesn’t serve his best interests. He’s not going to come on and say “Reyes is playing terribly, he needs to improve otherwise he will get dropped”, he comes on and says things like “Reyes is fantastic in training and back to his best”, and then when we see him on the pitch he is worse than ever. Wenger doesn’t speak the truth to the press, and often for good reason, but as fans we might as well eliminate what he says, because it’s all media-friendly garbage at the end of the day. You obviously don’t understand anything about football if you cannot see that??
And stop going on about my negativity, I was very positive after the Blackburn game, which was only 1 week ago.
April 23rd, 2005 at 11:29 am
Don’t be childish Paul. Just balance the good with the bad for once would you, at the moment you are like a sheep - just dozing, oblivious to Arsenal’s weaknesses.
April 23rd, 2005 at 11:30 am
The above was to Paul, not u Clarkey
April 23rd, 2005 at 11:38 am
Don’t worry pal, I knew
April 23rd, 2005 at 12:52 pm
Do you think you are the only one who sees weaknesses in this Arsenal ?
We all see and talk about our weaknesses and what might have gone wrong. But we are humble, modest, realistic and gratefull.
We accept weaknesses and don’t blame Wenger at every corner for everything and nothing.
He’s a human being, and subject not only to mistakes by to the UNCERTAIN NATURE OF THE GAME.
You can loose a game, a tittle without doing anything wrong. It’s happen every day.
We cannot talk about anything here, without your non-sence coments on “Wenger’s tactical mistakes”.
We miss a lot of occasion because you always want to impress.
Someti?mes it’s funny, but you do it every day, don’t except anything from people who obviously know more than you.
Do you care about the very aggressive and depressing feeling you’re trying to sell or to share day in day out.
There’s a lot of things to say about football club, a player or game without going on the manager back for undu praise or blame.
What’s more shocking it’s the fact you are wrong, and you presist in doing so.
WE ARE NOT IN OUR WORST SEASON.
WE HAVE GOT A LOT INJURY
WE ARE SECOND PLACED AS USUAL after a title.
We have got exciting young talents we would like to take about more for fun than listening to stupid tactical analysis about depressed and depressing “fans” who agaisnt all the evidence are claming Wenger’s at fault because we are doing a “bad season”.
We are not doing a bad season, therefore Wenger is not to blame.
He must be congratulated for the team’s season.
What Arsenal have done this year is NOT GRANTED at first place.
YOU ARE WRONG, TOTALLY WRONG.
April 23rd, 2005 at 1:06 pm
IT’S JUST STUPID TO STAY WE’VE GOT A SEASON.
Considering the injuries list, it’s a DISGRACE TO BLAME THE MANAGER.
Nobody could have planned for what we have been through.
People wha hate Wenger in the first place were just waiting to bring him down after an ubelievable run.
You cannot be tactically wrong and win a the league, not not mention to GO UNBEATEN.
SOme english people are just jealous, they might be arsenal’s fans but they’ll be much happier with an english manager.
They hate AW, and watch every game for every single mistake.
Every situations (on and off the pitch) is used against him. When they can’t praise where praise is du they come out with the CL argument and the “tactical” things.
Arsenal never won it, and was not meant to win without Wen,ger during the time he’s been at Arsenal.
SO why this constant attact.
What balance you want here.
The balance to make us believe he’s not better than your english candidates to take over the job?
What do you want to balance ? Our believe in their Wenger’s abilities to bring Arsenal at the next level ?
Do you really need to ?
I think you overestimate your tactical knowledge and that makes you too boring.
April 23rd, 2005 at 1:26 pm
So what’s your great contribution to this website? Wenger is great, Wenger is fantastic, Wenger has injuries, Wenger is not to blame? Everyone is wrong except YOU. Who are you, his mother? What is the point of you being here, when your only contribution is to lick Mr Wenger’s ass all day? You don’t even address the criticisms that are made, if everything is fine you might as well go back to your field and fall asleep.
April 23rd, 2005 at 1:36 pm
Oh shut up about bloody injuries and players missing. Look who Liverpool had missing against Juventus over various stages of both legs of the Champions League, Alonso, Gerard, Cisse, Morientes, Kewell, Dudek, where are they now? In the semi-final!!
Top class European managers have tactics, that’s how they bypass injury problems.
Who did Arsenal have missing, Campbell, Edu & Gilberto. You expect Arsenal to be injury-free in every single round of the Champions League?
Now who is boring?
Where did I say I am not grateful to Wenger and want him out? Not once have I said this. You pick and choose what you want to read with discrimination. Last week I was full of praise for Arsenal against Blackburn, butyou would rather everyone believe that I am Arsenal’s biggest enemy. Then you say I have no balance.
Finally, if you don’t like my posts I suggest you do not read them, it is very easy to do.
April 23rd, 2005 at 2:12 pm
If the criticisms are right I am willing to take them.
Most of the time your criticisms, I must say your venon, are just unjustified, and you just look like someone who hates Arsene Wenger.
In an ideal world I don’t even need to argue with you on any tactical issue about our season.
But obviously you live in a different world.
Your evident weaknesses in your Wenger’s camlpaign are too obvious. You are the only who don’t see that you are a poor expert.
Bad season ? “our standard” ?
Whose standard ?
Wenger has got many weaknesses like anyone.
To lead a dayly campaign to prove that a human being is not pertfect is brillant. If you want credit for your analysis, take it.
Childish ? From you it’s almost a compliment.
You are not just good enough to evaluate AW.
Your right to criticize doesn’t give any right to be unfair and not to get comment from pople who think you are just meaningless when it comes to judge a tactical choice or good season.
April 23rd, 2005 at 2:13 pm
Danny T what’s your defense here.
April 23rd, 2005 at 3:53 pm
Why is it that when I read your post all I see is excuses. I must admit, the reason that I have now started criticising Wenger is mainly for his failings in Europe.
You say that by my reckoning “we will only be judged a great team if we win the champions league”, first of all if I did say this I meant it as in European circles. Arsenal have always been a massive club in England. Europe will not regard Arsenal a big team until they win, or at least compete, for the Champions League, at the moment Arsenal are not even competing. I don’t believe that by simply being in it we are competing, Arsenal get to the quarter finals and get kicked out after usually struggling badly in the group stages, of which often they don’t even escape. You might keep hold of the fantasy, but Europe is not scared of Arsenal, Arsenal is not respected in Europe, how can it be?
And why do you say Arsenal should be grateful to be in Europe? The top 4 clubs in England now make the Champions League, Arsenal SHOULD be up there, Wenger or no Wenger. For god sake, even Bolton and Everton are fighting for it.
As for Toure’s mistakes against Bayern, you ask should Wenger be blamed for those mistakes, I say, yes! He is responsible for the team and it’s results. You can’t have it both ways. When he wins the title you call him the master, so when he screws up in Europe seven years running he should equally be criticised. The trouble is, it is not just the defensive mistakes against Bayern, nearly every other match in Europe there have been silly defensive mistakes, that’s why we never get past the quarter finals, or haven’t you noticed? When do you stop saying it’s bad luck and decide that something is actually wrong. For me, this season, I have decided that something is wrong.
Is it the players every time? Eventually, you have to look to Wenger and he must take the responsibility for the players he puts out on the pitch?
Ok, if it were 2 or 3 seasons with bad luck, I can accept that Wenger has been unlucky. But with the squad we have?? 7 years without getting past the quarter final, when teams like Porto are winning it, and this year even Liverpool are making the semis after beating Juve. You want to talk about injuries? They missed Dudek, Gerard, Alonso, Cisse, Kewell, Morientes. Those are injuries too, but Benitez has still guided them there. When does Wenger have to accept tactical blame? His tactics against Bayern were abysmal, in fact, he had no variable tactics - the team is rigid, it has one style of play only - through the middle. The don’t play it long, they don’t use width, it is always the same - aren’t these tactics?
You want to compare Wenger to Mourinho, and say that Mourinho was lucky when Porto beat Man Utd, that was ONE match. And Mourinho had already won the UEFA cup with Porto before that, Arsenal came close to winning the competition with Wenger, but the team were abysmal that night, Porto grabbed their chance - maybe that was tactics too. Then Porto won the Champions League the following season, coincidence??
As for Reyes, when have I ever blamed Reyes OR Wenger for the situation? The fact is, THE POOR BOY WANTS TO LEAVE! I wish he was happy, he is a fantastic prospect. But he is not happy, it shows in his performances, and Wenger is wrong to play him, especially out of position and alongside the ailing Bergkamp.
About the kids? Yes these kids look good, I don’t deny that, some of them are fantastic. But again, before the season started how many of these kids would have played were it not for injuries? Senderos? Fabregas? Flamini? Would any of them played much were it not for lengthy injuries?
Domestically I still believe Wenger can win us trophies, but even this season I was totally amazed that he didn’t buy a central defender. Cygan has proved to be a terribly weak link, particularly in Europe, where his nervousness panics the defence. The same was obvious in the Premiership toom but he got away with it, because he played rarely and Arsenal were on a crest of a wave last season. To me it was vital that Wenger bought defensive back up if Arsenal were to challenge for the Champions League seriously. Predictably Campbell got injured, where was the back-up? Nowhere. Cygan fell apart, Arsenal fell apart. The defence collapsed and it spread like a virus through the team, the midfield and attack spent didn’t know wether to attack or defend, it all went wrong. You may call it bad luck, I call it bad planning. Wenger spent the whole of last season’s transfer budget on 2 strikers, when it is is obvious that a central defender was a massive priority. He even went for Angulo, but he’s a right midfielder, did we really need him as well?
Perhaps you can see that now there is a method to my criticism. It is the build of 7 bad years in Europe, where Arsenal have underachieved. And I am also concerned that every time Wenger wins a title, he sits still - it seems a mental thing more than a money problem. He thinks the team will naturally improve and keep its focus, but I think it needs an injection of quality, even if they are experienced short-term buys, like Davor Suker - remember his precious equaliser away to Barcelona in the Champions League. He goes for youth too much sometimes.
Now please, I have answered your questions. I don’t want to have to keep justifying myself. Wenger is your God, and he is my hero, but not a perfect hero - he deserves criticism when he fails and praise when he succeeds. I still believe in him, because I want to see what Wenger can do when he has big money. And he can still win domestic titles, and these are fantastic. In Europe, I don’t believe in him at all, sorry, but not after this season.
April 23rd, 2005 at 3:56 pm
Why do you have to throw in issue of people’s nationalities (again) and generalise people’s behaviour based on such? What does it have to do with the issue(s) being discussed?
No one is attacking the nationality of Wenger or anyone else in the first place! Does it mean that if someone questions the tactics of our Manager we are anti-French or pro-English or whatever?
Perhaps some of us could deduce a great deal about you on what/how you write, but we still try to focus on Arsenal/football related topics.
Stay on course.
April 23rd, 2005 at 6:47 pm
Danny T,
“I want to see what Wenger can do when he has big money”
WHat do you call BIG money ?
ARsenal’s 30 millions or chelski’s minimum 300 millions ?
Yet again you seem out of reality.
You can only spend BIG MONEY if you do have it.
Cheslki can.
Arsenal don’t have the “BIG MONEY” you want to use as a material for chalenging Wenger.
Football is not about spending BIG MONEY.
Bu what a chalenge!
Danny T,
if Wenger’s GOD for anyone it’s YOU.
You live with Wenger’s your mouth.
Without Wenger’s you cannot analyse anything related to football as we’ve witnessed it on this site.
Wenger’s your obsession.
It’s possible to talk about Arsenal without thinking even of Wenger.
You are the one who force people to defend Wenger because of your constant abuse of his legacy and reputation with ridiculous vision of the game.
April 23rd, 2005 at 7:28 pm
It’s not just a question about Arsenal’s tactics.
It’s about Danny’s obvious disgust of anything positive about about Arsenal.
The “tactical” blame from what we heard everyday from this guy is not only irritable at first place, but is also unfair and very hurting.
Anyway you must be right, I am not very serious about the nationality related attack. I just wanted to give Danny some pay back for what he can bring to my day as an Arsenal’s fan who thinks the manager deserves some credits based on the fact he’s a human being entitled to make mistakes.
He can dislike Wenger for whatever reason or failure he wants.
There are too “many reasons” for an arsenal’s “fan” to blame Wenger : CL, back-to-back title, players living, “our own standard not being achived”….
He knows what he’s doing as he always get the same reactions.
But he can’t stop. There must be some reasons.
We just ask for some break to allow a cool debate on the topic of the day.
It’s not just a pleasure to read bad things on your team every day.
But who cares ?
April 23rd, 2005 at 7:47 pm
Personally, I do agree sometimes we have the right to critise the players/team/manager when we feel they are not doing their job. But we can’t just go one way all the way.
I always believe u can judge a thing from different angles. For instance, if someone told me we could at a draw at Stamford Bridge without Henry, how would u like it? I would definitely say a big YES. Remember some of us here were not that confident we could get a result there prior to the match. But if you have to choose to look at it the other way around, instead of feeling good about an away draw with a strong side, playing without our key player, you felt bad because we had dropped two points and claiming our manager choose a wrong lineup… well, what else can we say?
Like A_G pointed out, me too had lived through the 80s when we didn’t win every game by NORM. I have developed a habbit watching a game hoping and cheering on our team to win, not EXPECTING them to win. We are so called a “BIG club” now has a lot to thank to our manager Arsene Wenger. But we EARNED our status as a big club, we didn’t BUY it like a certain team does. And the last thing I would do is to take things for granted.
If being a “loyal” fan mean you would critise the team everytime when we aren’t getting result, or even at times when we ARE getting result [like our recent unbeaten run, yet our manager is still getting blamed], then i’m not sure how those ARsenal fans could live through the 80s, 70s, 60s, 50, 40s…. Not to mention all those clubs from Liverpool, Newcastle downward to Shrewsbury, Doncaster, Bristol Rovers… Not quite sure how their mangers could last more than a month had everyone would jump onto their mangers’ back just because they couldn’t win trophy…
Again, I’m not suggesting Arsene Wenger can’t do nothing wrong. He does make mistakes, like Paul said, he’s only human. But don’t jump the gun whenever you THINK our manger had made a mistake. On the back of every poor decision you feel he has made, there may be a REASON behind it.
April 23rd, 2005 at 8:33 pm
Big money is the ?30m he’s getting in the summer, the sort of money Utd had/have every season. Chelsea are obviously on another level.
I’ve said it before, If you don’t like my posts, don’t read them and don’t respond. There are just as many who agree with me as disagree. Nobody wants to see/read arguments on here, and you’re getting increasingly personal and irrational with your comments.
Stick to talking about Arsenal, or go and find another forum if you can’t control your temper.
April 23rd, 2005 at 10:12 pm
That’s what bothers me most, Danny. Why are there so many attacks on the person, and not the argument? It’s a sign of an underdeveloped intellect. Notable in this regard has been Gerard. This supposed “artist” is too busy lowering himself to telling esteemed ArseAmers like love_gunners (who always bases his opinions on well thought out arguments and facts) to, and I quote, “STFU.” [Shut the F*** Up] I guess he’s too busy producing “masterpieces” (ie simply updating older pieces of art to fit a more modern context - bravo)to construct intelligent and respectful replies. (Not so great being on the receiving end of an ad hominem attack now, is it Gerard?)
And for anyone who might think I’m now Danny’s lackey, I’ll tell you right now - I don’t agree with everything Danny’s said; I just haven’t had the time to rationally discuss it all, what with so many people firing out attacks on Danny’s character.
Danny I wouldn’t even bother replying to people who slag you off for voicing your opinions, however controversial they may be. You can’t please everyone, mate. I’m going to just start ignoring any disrespectful posts, I think you should do likewise. We’ll both spare ourselves a fair bit of aggro.