A couple of Arsenal Americans sound off on the absurdity that is the Baptista transfer saga:
pirate says:
I wrote a while back that Baptista would be the ideal sigining for us - strong, quick, could help us change our style of play, etc. Now, however, like the rest of you, I am bored to tears of this transfer saga, most of all because of the noises coming from Julio Baptista himself.
I appreciate he wants to get his passport to increase his mobility and that he, in fact, wants go and warm the bench at Madrid or Barcelona - sure, as a forward, he’d be mad to come to one of the most attacking team in the world, to play alongside the best striker in the world, under a coach with an amazing record of taking good players and making them absolutely world class. So, if he doesn’t want that and that’s what he keeps saying, let’s not bother.
Let’s go after a goalkeeper, let’s go after a defender and let’s go after a central midfielder.
PS: Watch the match up of Fabregas versus Maduro when we play Ajax on Friday - Maduro is the CM I think Arsene should go for.
{Ed note: Andez after the break}
Andez says:
Baptista’s transfer saga to Arsenal has now been dragging on for an entire month. I read today he’s not KEEN on joining Arsenal because he afraid he may have difficulty to adapt to life in a new country, also fears that it may harm his World Cup chance.
Frankly, I have never seen this guy played. But if some people believe Vieira should leave because “his heart is no longer with us”, then I say let’s forget about The Beast, even IF he’s as good as Ronaldo. What’s the point buying a player who doesn’t seem to keen playing for us even before he JOINS? I’ve read he’s willing to stay one more year for the reason of… getting himself a Spanish passport?!! No wonder report that he’s booed by his own fans during the preseason friendly. With all the stuffs I have read so far, unless they are all made up by the press, it seems that we are bidding for a new Anelka rather than a new Henry.
I say if we can’t buy anyone else, let’s might as well just save up the money to wait for the right guy comes along. The bottom line is - if Arsenal doesn’t not seem good enough for him (harm his World Cup chance playing for us?), then he’s not good enough for Arsenal.
77 Responses to ““Beast” or burden?”
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July 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
I agree with you Andez.
I don’t want the Beast if he has any reservations. I am sure Sevilla will sell if the price is right, but the player is the problem.
The attempted transfer has been a FIASCO.
Move on Arsenal.
Meanwhile…
Totteringham have signed Edgar Davids on a free transfer from Inter.
In the meantime, we’ve done f-all in the transfer market. I am NOT BUYING that we are better by doing NOTHING. We are NOT better than last year on paper, and Gilberto is already probable to MISS the season opener due to fatigue.
As Charlie Brown said: “GOOD GRIEF”!
July 26th, 2005 at 3:24 pm
the only reason this has become complicated is because of Baptista himself
it is time to walk away and let him rot
July 26th, 2005 at 3:38 pm
Stag, though I believe it may not be such a disaster that we don’t buy in anyone (youngsters would get more chances to polish their games), frankly, I too am a bit suprised if AW really settles on the current squad.
It seems to me there is clearly a void there at the heart of our midfield. Anyway, let’s just wait and see how things develop. Who knows? Maybe AW would move Kolo up to the midfield and become another Manu Petit (transformed from being a central half to central midfielder)…. Or the young right back Eboue would replace Lauren at right back, and push Lauren up to the heart of our midfield… Or maybe AW simply feels Cesc is going to blossom there… Or the new addition Hleb is going to play there…
July 26th, 2005 at 3:48 pm
Well I think of it this way, no incoming transfer ever takes place in the ideal circumnstances. Ideally we would be signing Baptista on a Bosman free transfer he would have no work permit problems and he would want to play for Arsenal so badly that he would be willing to sign for a 1000 quid a week.
In reality of course it does not work that way. I remember Arsene Wenger himself once said that no one, not even the parties involved ( clubs, players and agents ) actually know how a successfull transfer actually takes place as there are a lot of ins and outs and what have you’s. All you can do is use knowledge of the market to try and buy or sell a player and see if it comes off.
In our case some transfers come off smoothly (Sol Campbell, Hleb etc), but some have more twists and turns than the Gordian Knot (Edu, Silvinho, Baptista). In Silvinho’s case we found out two years after his actual signing that we were not supposed to sign him in the first place and that we could not keep him despite the fact that he wanted badly to stay with us and the fans did not want him to go. ( Brazilian transfers seem to be very complicated ).
In light of these facts I dont think that its wise to be so overly fussy about his attitude. After all we dont really know the real reason behind his indecision. Maybe he really does want to play for us but is stalling to see how much money he can get before he signs.
I know that for us Arsenal fans there is no choice between Arsenal and any other team, but remember Baptista is a neutral so far and is probably genuinely torn between signing for Arsenal or Barcelona, as both are top ten clubs.
Sometimes you have to court your transfer targets.
Arsenal fans have become used to signings like Wiltord ( a player who actually went on strike when his club Bordeaux first refused to sell him ).
In conclusion, I think we should be patient with the Baptista signing as there is still over a month to go before the window closes. We still have a few points in our favor.
No. 1 Seville need the transfer money badly. This means they dont give a toss about Baptista’s passport dilema.
No. 2 Seville have now 4 non-EU players on the books and so they must get rid of one before the season starts.
No.3 Barcelona would need to sell one of their non-EU players in order to sign Baptista
No.4 There are a lot of other ways for millionaires to get around passport problems once they are already inside the EU.
July 26th, 2005 at 3:54 pm
Andez… I am in no way, shape, or form buying the theory that we are somehow a better team at this point than last year. Its not true. People can candy-coat it any way they want… but the facts are simple. We are NOT better, and likely worse. Depth has killed us in recent seasons, and we have NOT addressed that. We are one injury away to a keeper or Gilberto or Henry, from being screwed.
Let’s say we start off poorly, with a draw and a loss to Chelsea. BOTH possible… the season could quickly become a shambles. Why take these chances?
I will support whomever we put out there in the Crimson kit. I love the players we have. I just don’t think we’ve done much to improve a team that Chelsea blew away in the league, and went out in the CL too early, and got lucky in the FA Cup final.
You don’t have to panic buy, thats fine, but we bought Hleb and lost Edu, Vieira, Stack, & Taylor. What good was the 13.7 million for Vieira??? If we don’t invest it in getting players in, it was f’n worthless to me. I expect us to ATTEMPT to get better. I don’t see it.
At the very least, Edgar Davids on a free would have made sense! He will help the Totts. Liverpool, signed a bunch of players, and HELD Gerrard… Chelsea got better with SWP and del Horno.
I don’t want to hear we will be better by doing nothing. Its not a reasonable arguement. Sendy has played 1/2 season, Cesc is 18…. Campbell is already hurt or out of shape, and Gilberto is tired before the season starts… RVP???? who knows.
Sounds like we are ready for the season. Ready to grab 4th place maybe.
July 26th, 2005 at 3:55 pm
Hold on stag, I think fiasco is too negative a word to describe the transfer. I agree its complicated but then again, a lot of transfers are complicated. I am just as hungry for news of incoming transfers as you are as I keep surfing the newspaper websites so far to no avail.
July 26th, 2005 at 3:55 pm
Good timing of the post guys. I wanted to echo my thoughts on this.
I read today as well that he now rather play for Madrid. I think Arsenal should just say, NO THANKS and walk away. Arsenal have had enough problems with players wanting to leave recently, that they don’t need a player un-sure about wanting to join the team. Enough is enough.
I think Seville would have been willing to sell him to us. But this guy, oh man. Heck Wenger flew to Brazil. Nonsense…no amount of courting will make him happy…I have seen games where he has played, and he is indeed a good player. But I had no idea he had this much baggage. And even if he had come to Arsenal, he would have complained about the weather, the physical nature of the league, etc and left in a year or so.
In fact, this guy might just be using Seville as a parking spot to get his passport while he moves on to greener pastures in Spain, and that means Madrid for these guys. The stupidity of it all.
My hat goes off to players who stay at a club because they believe in the club, because they care for the team and want to make it better. Too many players nowadays who are seeking personal gain — money, passport, etc…
Where are those players who would give up everything to play for their beloved Arsenal?
July 26th, 2005 at 4:03 pm
There are no transfers. We sold our captain for 13.7 Million and have NOT re-invested it in the team. If we don’t spend it on players, then the move was absolutely IDIOTIC. It would make the move an absolute MOCKERY.
The season starts for real SOON. Even if we brought players in, they’d need time to adjust a bit. This off-season has been a shambles.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:10 pm
Stag I agree with you that we wont get better by doing nothing. If you stand still, you automatically move backwards.
I think the point you are trying to get across is that we need strength in depth and I agree with that that point. However the hallmark of strength in depth is the ability to replace qualty with quality. If we back ourselves into doing a panic buy then we could seriously jeopardize that quality, on top of wasting the clubs money. Like I replied to your previous post I too am hungry for news but at the same time we need a degree of patience. After all how can you worry too much with Arsene Wenger at the helm.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:16 pm
Wait a minute dude. I know the season starts very soon but the transfer window still has more than a month to run. I know we are cutting it close but Arsene Wenger is rightfully gambling that injuries and suspensions are likely to kick in LATER in the season rather than in the begining. So we can afford to wait just a little bit longer, even though I too would prefer that it would be sooner rather than later.
I know the loss of Vieira is a blow but we did not have Vieira in the early part of last season so I think we can afford to wait.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:20 pm
We’ve had ALL SUMMER to bring in players. We didn’t need to panic buy. We’ve all been patiently waiting for Wenger’s “2 or 3″ players… he said he’d bring in. Now he’s saying he’s good with what he has, even in Baptista doesn’t come to us.
Thats utter crap as far as I am concerned.
I have backed Wenger as much as ANYONE… but please, don’t tell me we are set. 14 Million made on Paddy, right into the Arsenal coffers. SPEND IT you cheap bastards.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:20 pm
“Where are those players who would give up everything to play for their beloved Arsenal?”
Baptista has had no previous relationship with Arsenal, and so we must assume that he is a neutral until he actually signs. The stories in the papers keep changing as to which team he actually wants to play for, and untill he actually signs for someone we have to assume that all options are open.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:24 pm
Wait for what?
The closer it gets to the season starting, the worse off we are. The closer it gets to the transfer deadline, the HIGHER prices go. Thats PANIC buying!
If he doesn’t know who he wants to get by now, he hasn’t done his job.
If we start the season slow, it could be OVER before we blink. In the last 2 seasons combined, Arsenal and Chelsea, have lost a total of 1 match!!
EVERY game is now important. We don’t have time to “f” around to see how things work out, or wait for injuries. Not when Chelsea have a 2nd starting 11, and any injury they suffer is not fatal. We could easily have Henry get hurt and Gilberto get hurt… and we’d be absolutely DONE!
July 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
Yes I dont doubt in the least your support of Wenger and yes the 14 million we recieved was not much but again the question arises, Who do we spend it on? and how much should we spend?
Those questions dont have easy answers. I know I dont have any sure answers, but I was thinking how about Juan Carlos Valeron of Deportivo. I havent seen him in a while and dont remember how olde he is but I do remember him being an awesome player. With Deprtivo being down and out maybe we can prise him away?
July 26th, 2005 at 4:28 pm
Why would Arsenal be “beloved” to anyone outside North London? Baptista doesn’t know or care about Arsenal. There’s no tie to Arsenal for foreign players. And MONEY rules the game. The days of one team for a career are virtually gone in ALL sports.
Nobody stays at a club for alot less money. Its stupid business. A career could be over in an instant, one injury. You get the money when you can. And Arsenal SELL your ass when you near 30, so they have no loyalty either.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:32 pm
FloridaG…
If Wenger doesn’t have like 5 targeted players on his blackboard that he wanted to bring in during the Summer, then he didn’t do his job.
He HAD to have an idea of who to bring in. Either he has attempted and failed every corner, or he had no real plans to bring in players. We have 14 PLUS the alleged amount prior to Vieira’s sale. There are alot of good players out there in the world. I can name 10 I wouldn’t mind seeing in Arsenal Crimson… but what I want doesn’t matter. Wenger not only has to want them, but he has to attempt to go get them. He’s faffed around all Summer with Baptista… utter stupidity.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:34 pm
True, but I think you are talking about the worst case scenarios. If we go down that road than we could also start worrying about being in a relegation dogfight come January.
You are saying that the closer we get to the season starting than the worse off we are. I am not so sure about that arguement. I think it is just as likely that the closer we get to the transfer deadline the more desperate some clubs might be to unload a player. This would be especially true if the other major clubs have completed their intended acquisitions.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:40 pm
Its not a worst case scenario. Gilberto was injured last season, and he is “tired” from playing during the off-season. Henry was injured last season.
Its foolish to think we are going to go thru a season unscathed. Especially when the last 2 seasons the lack of depth cost us dearly.
The season starts, someone gets injured, we need a replacement quickly (or help at that position), do you think the price of the player we are trying to buy at that point goes down?? It skyrockets.
We could be 6 points back by Aug.31st. If we wait around, we’re done.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:40 pm
I agree, guys. The second a player balks about coming here, is the second we should look elsewhere…which leads me to my other point…
…where? People are so worried we haven’t bought anyone, and yet, who are we supposed to buy? We can’t likely waltz into a club and take whomever we want. They have to be available and willing, we’ve just seen that. I must be stupid, because I honestly cannot understand the logic of criticizing Wenger simply because he hasn’t bought SOMEBODY. Since when has this club settled for less?
If the board has decided to side with Wenger’s targets and devoted HUNDREDS of man hours to try and pull them off, then what more can these men do other than keep on creating the next, Henry, Vieira, Ljunberg, etc.? We’re trying to train in Austria at the moment and we’re burning holes in the net. Yes depth is essential, but not just whomever happens to have their shingle out. Davids doesn’t fit Wenger’s vision, Spurs buys him and suddenly we’re crapping ourselves. I must be missing something, cuz I don’t get it.
Guys, do me a favor. Please. Next time you feel the urge to start complaining about our lack of activity, have a list of names that fill our spots and make sure they’re available. THEN we can sit back and wonder why Wenger doesn’t go for them. Until then, we’re p*ssing into the wind, aren’t we?
July 26th, 2005 at 4:45 pm
Wenger probably does have 5 or more players on his BUY list, but none of us know how much money he has to go after them. Even if there is only the 14 million that will buy at the most 2 star players.
I remember in the summer of 2001 we splashed out 25 million quid on Francis Jeffers, Richard Wright, Junichi Inamoto and Giovanni Van Bronckhorst. NONE of these players made much of a noticeable impact on the 2001-2002 season. The only one that did was our Bosman free, Sol Campbell.
So therefore although there is something to be said for spending money, there is also something to be said for patience.
You did not say what you think of Valeron.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:49 pm
Excellent point stag. You just gave me another reason why I find the clubs policy on players over 30 counterproductive.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:49 pm
Scotty, we’re firing in a bunch of goals against 2nd division Austrians. Big freaking deal.
Its not MY JOB to figure out who I want to bring in. Its Arsene Wenger’s job. If he doesn’t have a detailed list of who he wants to bring here, then he had no intention of buying players! So if we can’t get exactly who we want, we do nothing?? We just go with what we have?
We tried folks… nobody wanted to come… but we’re better… we’re gonna overtake Chelsea because we are just better. Not on paper, or in reality, but trust us… that 14 million we got for selling your captain… we’ll just save that for a rainy day.
Davids was mentioned as a possible target by a fellow listee. He was FREE! He provides talent, skill, and experience. OK, he doesn’t fit the bill for AW, how about Hargreaves, Jenas, Cahill, Roy Keane, Alonso, Gravesen, Rosicky, Ballack, and Patrick Vieira would be nice. There’s 10 I’d like to see us try to get. At this point, DEPTH is essential. Thats why Jenas or Hargreaves would make sense in some respect. I don’t envision Cesc at 18 playing in 60 matches and being the TALISMAN!
But hey, thats just me.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Well I did suggest Juan Carlos Valeron to stag. What do you think of him?
July 26th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
No, I am not saying that we will go through an entire season without injury or suspensions, what I am saying is that when they kick in they are far more likely to do so well after August 31st.
6 points down on August 31st is not such an insurmountable obstacle.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:54 pm
I like Valeron. But can he ply his trade in England?
I am not sure if he could succeed. But HELL, if we brought him in, I could say we tried!
I’d rather we brought in 4 players and they didn’t work out, than if we did NOTHING and that didn’t work out. Better to have tried and failed, than not to have tried at all.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:56 pm
Considering Chelsea lost 1 match last season, and we lost ZERO the year before, as Fergie pointed out… EVERY match is important now, there is no catching a team who loses once or not at all. You have to play as if the league winner will be undefeated.
Chelsea is BETTER than last year. They only lost once. Down 6 points at ANY time, might be too much.
July 26th, 2005 at 4:56 pm
GOD NO!! You cant be serious Roy Keane, Jenas?
No way
July 26th, 2005 at 4:59 pm
True, but then again no one season is like the previous one and other teams will figure out how to better cope with Chelsea. I dont think they will run away with it this year. It will be a lot closer.
July 26th, 2005 at 5:01 pm
I am just making a point. Keane is better than half the league. Jenas, well, he’s young and talented, and although I don’t care for him… under Wenger’s charm, he could be very good.
Its not MY LIST that matters at all.
I can come up with names, but whats the point.
How about Ronaldinho.
I’d like him.
Wenger has to have targeted players.
If we are going with the kids, then please, sell Campbell and Pires……. and just go with the youth team. They are all very very talented. We aren’t going to win with this current mix… unless I am woefully wrong. And how I hope I am sooooooooooo very wrong. But we are not a better team than last season, and other teams are.
July 26th, 2005 at 5:01 pm
Exactly. We are NOT NOT trying, we ARE trying. If we fail to bring even one more player in I will be satisfied that we did our best.
July 26th, 2005 at 5:02 pm
based on what?
Why will it be closer?
Their nearest competitor (that’d be us)
is NOT better. I think the margin will be greater.
July 26th, 2005 at 5:04 pm
No, we didn’t do our best. We did NOTHING. We watched as other teams made signings. Chelsea, Liverpool, even Spurtz. We stood by and waited for Baptista. Sold our captain, and pocketed the money.
July 26th, 2005 at 5:07 pm
Well your list does matter somewhat, because if you did not have a list than we would have nothing to talk about.
I hate Roy Keane and so do most gooners and I dont believe Jenas is good enough for Arsenal at all.
We cant afford to buy Ronaldhino and no way should we sell Campbell and Pires, that would just make the situation worse. We have to find the right balance between youth and experience.
July 26th, 2005 at 5:11 pm
Based on the fact that no one season is like another. In 1991 we went through the season with only one defeat but the seasons before and after were very different for the eventual winners.
Manure ran away with the title in 2000 and 2001 but that did not last. The rivalry continued but the seasons were very different in how the games panned out. Other clubs came around to figuring out how to beat Manure and we did our bit too.
July 26th, 2005 at 5:19 pm
Thats one way of looking at it but then again maybe their efforts panned out and ours did not. The resource factor with Chelsea is an entirely different equation altogether. We would have bought Wright-Phillips if we had the money, but we dont so there is no point worrying about it. Again the window has NOT closed yet.
Vow Stag, I have to say that this is THE MOST INTENSE single online chat session I have ever had with any one. I have already burned through three cigaettes AND I had to abandon my poker session on Party Poker.com. This conversation was just too important to be left till later.
July 26th, 2005 at 6:16 pm
Hey Stag, floridagunner:
I should clarify my very unclear last line:
Where are those players who would give up everything to play for their beloved Arsenal?
I was not referring this comment to Baptista but as a general statement.
I feel Arsenal has a unique brand of football and a very distinct history/personality. These should be factors which should be attractive to other foreign players. Other players would be inspired or honored to play for Arsenal. In fact, these other players love what Arsenal stands for and would be willing to go the extra distance to join the team.
Local English lads might have a sense of belonging to their local team but in this day and age of satellites, I felt maybe players from other countries dream of playing for a team in a far off land whose playing style appeals to them.
Yeah I know I am being idealistic. But I just feel that Arsenal are so unique in their style that should be reason enough. Maybe back in 1900 that might have held true. I was thinking that in the real world, there are people who dream to work for certain companies because of what the company stands for, not for money or not because the company will give them a passport.
Now Baptista probably does not care for how Arsenal plays or what they stand for. But there must be top class players out there who deep down want to play for Arsenal? I just don’t read in the media that any player wants to join Arsenal because of how they play. Yes I read that Robinho made such a statement but I doubt anything he says is accurate.
July 26th, 2005 at 6:38 pm
I don’t see what the big deal is about Baptista’s comments. Papers and the radio need to sell and this is the way they do it. It is way overhyped and boring at this point….
I don’t see his comments being particularly bad as he didn’t say that he didn’t want to come to Arsenal. Madrid are sniffing around to drop the price for Robinho. If they sign Baptista, then they have an overload of strikers and where does that leave Robinho?
Regarding the rest, I have to say, on paper, I agree with Stag to a degree. We don’t have the depth that we had last year in midfield, but we are stronger in defense and in the striking department.
That being said, the transfer policy of Arsenal is diabolical. Reading today that they put in a late bid (of course) for Proto made my blood boil. I am all for getting a player for the right price, but is ?500,000 too much for a young and up and coming keeper??? There are plenty of players that we should be picking up but it seems the ones that Wenger targets 3?
July 26th, 2005 at 6:51 pm
I’ll never be your beast of burden!
I’ve walked for miles & my feet are hurting!
All I’m asking is for you to make love to me!
Wenger sucks, Arsenal sucks, Baptista sucks, b!tching & moaning sucks! THis season sucks! This post sucks! Death to everyone!
BTW, I’m still available on a transfer. I’m not comfortable playing in the middle, but I’ll give it a go.
July 26th, 2005 at 6:52 pm
God, there seems to be no pleasing some of our supporters, and not just on this site. “High maintenence” comes to mind, like spoiled children really. People have bitched about not blooding the youth in the past well, this season we all may our wish. Even if this season turns out to be one of rebuilding, reorganizing, are we all going to have to listen to these same supporters **AYE CARUMBA**(censored) and moan all campaign???
Look, F___ Baptista, I never want him in an Arsenal shirt now, he’s acting like the popular girl at the prom who has too many suitors. He talked about wanting to join Arsenal, then stay in Sevilla, then Barca, then Real in a matter of a week or two?? I’m suprised he hasn’t told Marca that “Chelsea are the strongest club in the world, who wouldn’t want to join them” etc.
We do have Van P. We do have Quincy, who I think should at the very least be on the bench every game this year even if he is only 19. Bentley is ready to do or die as an Arsenal player as well. I think he can and will contribute.
Don’t get me wrong, I want the club to win trophies. I want them to sign capable players. But sign the RIGHT players or none at all as far as I’m concerned.
Above all, quit whining, it’s unfitting of an Arsenal supporter.
Baptista, as someone else put elequently, CAN ROT.
July 26th, 2005 at 6:54 pm
That post above was mine by the way, I don’t know why I was annon’ed.
July 26th, 2005 at 7:01 pm
Nobody gets it out of me like you, mr friend. That’s a compliment, by the way.
Yes, we’re playing Austria’s carpenter and food server unions, but we’re surely trying things, moving folks around, letting the kids boss the midfield or try to. I wasn’t suggesting we were doing anything spectacular, I was suggesting we were doing exactly what everyone else is doing and looking good doing it. Like I said, Inter narrowly beat Liecester. Madrid lost to Tokyo Verdy 3 nil. Sure, they’re tired, but who’s to say they’re any more tired than we are or anyone else for that matter. And if they are, shame on them for hocking their wares all over creation.
Hargreaves? Eh, grasping. Cahill? Nice story, hard worker. Think he wants to battle it out with the kids we have that are already almost if not AS good as him? Graveson’s not for sale, is he? Ballack’s just a wish on a star. Alonso doesn’t know where he’s going yet, does he? Is he gone? Is Kewell? Baros? Regardless, only two of those players I think are good enough to rob experience from what we have out there. You’re talking like we’re getting embarrassed. I’m sure you think we will. All based on a squad you really haven’t seen together yet, and the fact that a couple of teams are swapping spit cause they’re either desperate or rich enough to throw money down the toilet. Okay, Phillips isn’t spit, but would you pay 21 mill for him?
I know those were just some off the top of your head and its not your job, but what makes you think Wenger hasn’t seen what’s out there and played his hand the best he could? Why the incessant doubt? Nerves? Fair enough. Still, up to today, and only as far as we know, Baptista was a true possibility. Had we landed him, we’d be praising Wenger. One guy.
You cannot say for sure that Wenger had no intention of buying players. What you might be able to say is that he had no intention of buying players unnecessarily because he trusts his own choices in his kids and where they stand against other prospects. You also might be able to say he doesn’t want to do the dance and be fleeced by another club for a player he really doesn’t want. Maybe he needs to show conviction for the players he really wants by not knee-jerk bidding and buying while the market is still open and viable. Prices are going up anyway, so why not wait it out? Both theories are supported by what we’ve seen and heard. My point being, there’s only so much we can do when the market is like this. ESPECIALLY us. We’re a unique squad who play a kind of football that just doesn’t have much use for 2 million pound squad players. They know it, and so do we.
I don’t think we can compare ourselves to other’s activities in the market. So Spurs are 6% stronger. I say,” big deal”. That’s their business. Its unfair to say the lads we have aren’t stronger, too. Who knows if we’ll overtake Chelsea? You’re saying we need warm bodies with experience. I get that. But I also think its far more complicated than just “we want you”. I also think its more complicated than the galactico approach. Reyes said it, and I believe him, “They’re not THAT good.”
And you’ve got to let the Vieira thing go, man. Its going to age you worse than when he was here. He wanted away, has wanted away judging by his own behavior in the past summers and performance on the pitch, and we had one last chance to get something for him. Blame Wenger if you want, but its just as fair to say he dodged an ugly situation for us that could have weakened the entire team even worse.
If the choices we’re making is good enough for Henry, its good enough for me. And don’t cry that anyone put him up to saying that, either. ;^)
July 26th, 2005 at 7:03 pm
I understand what you mean by your comments SachinG, about players wanting to play for us and I am sure there are, but of course its never as simple as that is it. I think over the course of this season a couple of star players have expressed the desire to come and play for us. Gutti is a name that come to mind. He openly announnced to all who would listen that he wanted to come and play for Arsenal, but what happened, Wenger did not want him.
You gave the example of a companies that exist, which people would love to go and work for but you forget that is an example from the REAL WORLD. In the real world an individual desiring to work for a particular company has the ability to go fill out an application for a job at that company, or maybe he can use his connections to try and squeeze an interview for himself. All these moves, although perfectly legal in the REAL WORLD, are ILLEGAL in the FOOTBALL WORLD. The only way for a player to get a move is to request a transfer and then there is no gaurantee that the transfer will happen in the desired direction.
I am sure that all over the world there are tens of thousands of players who would die for the chance to play for Arsenal but there are only 23 or so spots. Not all of them can be looked at and even if such a thing was possible would Wenger believe that they are good enough.?
I am sure there are also top class players who want to play for us but does Wenger want to buy them?, can Arsenal afford to buy them? Gutti wanted to come but that whole thing came to nothing..
Like Wenger has said before, NO ONE in the world of football actually knows how the transfer system works. Not even the parties involved.
July 26th, 2005 at 7:11 pm
Hleb is one of those players. He doesn’t have a fancy name like Ronaldinho, nor the pedigree, but he’s played tough Budesliga football (lest we forget how far PSV and Munich got last season) and was revered the league over.
But he didn’t give Chelsea the time of day when he learned we wanted him and its because of the football. We’ve attracted others for the same reasons. I see no reason to bring on anyone else who doesn’t feel the same way. Just how did we go undefeated, anyway? Hundreds of millions of dollars to sit back and watch the slaughter? No. By being on the same page through the way we play.
And Chelsea have bid half of England for Shevchenko. I’m sure no one is surprised, but it should give us more evidence as to what that club uses to attract players. We’re still in it because of our product. Praise gods for that.
July 26th, 2005 at 7:12 pm
What makes you think Xabi Alonso is leaving Liverpool?
July 26th, 2005 at 7:13 pm
Can’t say I know enough about him, actually. Fill me in?
July 26th, 2005 at 7:15 pm
The ‘Beast’ is frightened to play in England because he’s not sure if he can hack English football, he’s afraid he won’t get to play in teh World Cup.
Despite the fact his best mate Reyes is here - and playing for Spain, and he is alongside his international team mate Gilberto.
And lest not we forget Francesc Fabregas who has dazzled the country by mixing it with the big boys in midfield at the tender age of 16.
Perhaps Baptista should change his name to the ‘coward’.
July 26th, 2005 at 7:15 pm
Wow Scotty, finally some points worth making after so many days I thought that everyone on this site had lapsed into ACOMA.
Read my post to SachinG on the complications of player transfers.
I agree its time we let the Vieira and Edu thing go. None is more upset than me that they left and I still think it might have been a mistake, but what can you do except look to the future. They are gone and they are never coming back.
July 26th, 2005 at 7:15 pm
PSV is in Holland. Geez Scotty get on the ball
July 26th, 2005 at 7:16 pm
I like your attitude. Need an agent? I think I can get you a trial with a very popular club by the name of FC United.
Effin’ $30 million for Baptista. We get him, the coffers will echo. What 20 goals in La Liga will get you these days.
July 26th, 2005 at 7:18 pm
Oops. :^) Blasted editors.
July 26th, 2005 at 7:18 pm
I understand what you mean by your comments SachinG, about players wanting to play for us and I am sure there are, but of course its never as simple as that is it. I think over the course of this season a couple of star players have expressed the desire to come and play for us. Gutti is a name that come to mind. He openly announnced to all who would listen that he wanted to come and play for Arsenal, but what happened, Wenger did not want him.
You gave the example of a companies that exist, which people would love to go and work for but you forget that is an example from the REAL WORLD. In the real world an individual desiring to work for a particular company has the ability to go fill out an application for a job at that company, or maybe he can use his connections to try and squeeze an interview for himself. All these moves, although perfectly legal in the REAL WORLD, are ILLEGAL in the FOOTBALL WORLD. The only way for a player to get a move is to request a transfer and then there is no gaurantee that the transfer will happen in the desired direction.
I am sure that all over the world there are tens of thousands of players who would die for the chance to play for Arsenal but there are only 23 or so spots. Not all of them can be looked at and even if such a thing was possible would Wenger believe that they are good enough.?
I am sure there are also top class players who want to play for us but does Wenger want to buy them?, can Arsenal afford to buy them? Gutti wanted to come but that whole thing came to nothing..
Like Wenger has said before, NO ONE in the world of football actually knows how the transfer system works. Not even the parties involved.
July 26th, 2005 at 7:21 pm
Stag pointed him out. Or did I make that up? I thought he did. I didn’t hear anything either. Maybe he meant Baros. Stag? Help?
July 26th, 2005 at 7:22 pm
Cenral Midfielder for Deportivo La Coruna, awesome player, he was excellent in the Champions League. Coveted by both Real Madrid and Barcelona.
July 26th, 2005 at 7:24 pm
Yeah Stag did point him out, and then you added Alonso isn’t sure where he’s going. I’m pretty sure he’s set with Benitez.
July 26th, 2005 at 7:27 pm
Absoloutely superb post my friend! Yes the transfer speculation is getting boring so let’s ignore it! Lets concentrate on what we have got in the way of class, skill and technique. Even the mighty (???) Chelski cannot boast a forward line of Henry, Bergkamp, Reyes, van Persie with Pires, Ljungberg, Fabregas and Flamini maurauding up from midfield! What team’s wouldn’t die for that line-up. In my 35+ years ofg watching the gunners these last few years have been the most exciting so (as I’ve said before on this site) let’s get behind the team - and this DEFINATELY includes Monsieur Wenger!!!! After all, where would we be without him?
NorthBank
July 26th, 2005 at 7:31 pm
Thanks.
Is he making any noises about leaving? Or do we have to get into another protracted bidding war for him that could see us outbid by Barca and Madrid? I’m only a casual observer at best, but I would be cautious about bringing La Liga standouts to the Premier League for too much more than 10 million. That river has been running downstream, lately. A river that’s also been finding its way to South America (Forlan). It was actually kind of sad to hear Baptista totter about moving leagues, and why I’m sort of happy that we may lose him at 30 million. Sheesh, Reyes is still adjusting.
But I’m going to look out for this guy now that you mentioned him.
July 26th, 2005 at 7:35 pm
Those guys are going to be hitting the ground running come their first fixture. Either that, or they’ll be knackered to pieces. How many goals does Gerrard have, 7? 8?
And I finally saw Crouch in his new kit. Not sure how he played, but they must make them special for him. unusual looking fella, him.
July 26th, 2005 at 7:38 pm
No I actually havent heard anything about him this summer.I was just thinking we might have a chance since Deportivo have been down and out for a year.
It was just a standout name I bandied about since Stag wanted names.
July 26th, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Well spoken, there is nothing we can do now about those who have left. There is nothing we can do either about those who do not want to come here so why fret over it.
July 26th, 2005 at 7:43 pm
Man I love the Stones. What an appropriate song!!!
July 26th, 2005 at 9:28 pm
See it from the players side!
He probably dont speak English at all. He wants to play for his national team in WC. Should he go to Arsenal, a great team and great coach + Gilberto, but a lot of insecurity for the player. Climate, language, culture. Should he go to Arsenal og stay put in Sevilla another year, get a passport, know he will play every match and he might even get picked up by Barca or Real, a transfer that would see him get better salary, better climate and less cultural problems.
We till should try to persuade him, but dont be so shocked he he doesnt jump the first plane. He is a incredible striker with much confidence and wasnt raised with Arsenal, but Real Madrid.
Let Dein spend his time down in Spain and hopefull manage to presuade him. Maybe even Wenger takes another trip to talk to him. That will be the way to do it.
July 26th, 2005 at 10:34 pm
I for one want to look at matters in a different perspective, on the basis that AW and DD are not dumb fellas.
Beast wants passport but has to convince spanish authorities that he may possible ply his trade in spain. So what does he do? Throws a smokescreen about how much he loves Barca, adores Real blah, blah, blah… Newspapers take the clue and publish fantastic stories so that people like us start posts like this and discuss endlessly.
I believe that he might have done a deal with AW and will join us late in August after dusting the passport thing. Based on the fact that the club has constantly increased their bid and also based on the fact that AW & DD are not dumb enough to pursue the matter if the player does not have his heart set to play for us.
So the story about english weather, different league, worldcup year….. all are bulls**t. Just ignore it and chill out!
July 26th, 2005 at 10:46 pm
Yeah and besides, when you are a multimillionaire there are many ways to get around passport issues.
July 26th, 2005 at 10:58 pm
The comments made about Julio throwing smokescreens might be true, but it might also be time to hedge our bets..I for one don’t want to give up on this season..We need to go after the Champions League while TH is still in his prime…It should be all out now, not waiting for players to develop…One of our biggest weakness is on set pieces and we need height…Fabregas and Flamini are too short to defend on set pieces…Julio would be ideal but I would like us to go after Mammadou Diarra and Emmanuel Adebayor…It gives us height and a great defensive midfielder who plays in front of the defense. If you listen to the lyon players comments, they all attribute the success to Diarra than Essien…Diarra plays a Gilberto role for them….Adebayor is not the aggressive striker but he can control and pass the ball…I like the fact that he does not seem to waste his shots..Bet you we can get both of these players for the price of Julio
July 26th, 2005 at 11:06 pm
stag, get a grip. you have been on the most negative trip lately.
i say it again, the fellowship of the miserable has a new leader.
i hope you read the news about henry proclaiming his faith in the boss and the young players. if he can be this upbeat, can you find it in yourself to be the excruciatingly painful, ever-positive person you ONCE were?
please…? :^)
July 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
word, scotty. word.
July 26th, 2005 at 11:35 pm
Cut him some slack, I know how he feels about the Vieira departure and I felt the same way. He’s just taking a little longer to get over it.
July 26th, 2005 at 11:38 pm
These players you mention dont really get my pulse racing, but then again neither did Vieira when he arrived in 96. Lets see there is still some time to go before the transfer window closes.
July 27th, 2005 at 12:11 am
I have to say this has been the strangest pre-season summer regarding Arsenal in a long time. With no real soccer being played, the media has to churn stories out. So like a daily soap, we get to read player’s wishes and desires, who is going where, who wants to leave, etc. In the past summers we had such sagas but this time, it has carried on from last year’s drama as well.
On one hand just looking forward to the new season. No one is giving Arsenal a chance, so that might work to their advantage. A team which might end up gelling together because everyone playing there wants to be there. Most times in a soccer game, when a player gets sent off, the 10 remaining players play better than the 11 were. So hoping all this Vieira exit stuff brings the team together.
July 27th, 2005 at 12:32 am
Good response man
I think I am just getting frustrated with reading negative transfer stories about us for a long time now — people wanting to leave, someone shunning us, etc.
I guess the transder thing depends on perspective as well. A lot of quality players like Sheva, Adriano, Trezequet, Henry, Ronaldinho, etc have rejected Chelsea (or their clubs have refused them). In the last two years Chelsea have bid for a lot of top players and I think their rejection rate is quite high. Heck last year, Christian Vieri even rejected them. But since they went after so many players, they ended up signing quite a few. And I don’t think for a minute that Chelsea are hurt by if someone rejects them..
In that regards Wenger is a smart man. He searches hard for that polished gem. And I trust whoever he brings in. Except that Cygan. That one is a strange one case though…
Seeing how Wenger managed to get some of these great players over the years, I agree this transfer system is strange. Sometimes a club can let a player go for cheap just because the manager does not like the player’s long hair..and sometimes clubs hold onto worthless players just to prove a point, even if that means incurring a loss.
July 27th, 2005 at 12:36 am
After seeing clips of Hleb’s in action (thanks to those posted via this website), I can believe he came to Arsenal because of our style..So yes we got a quality player. In Wenger’s case, he only goes after someone who thinks is worth, unlike some other teams who bid for everyone out there.
July 27th, 2005 at 4:01 am
I agree. I still think this whole Baptista saga is a smokescreen- quoting Henry-@Wenger will buy some unknown player.
I still think we need a keeper.
July 27th, 2005 at 5:42 am
He can apply in August for his passport, but the whole process takes 6-9 months, so I’m not sure it’s a smokescreen in that way. I do think it is to up the Arsenal salary offer.
My point is, Baptista doesn’t have to go spouting off to the press, he’s starting to make Vieira’s annual Real silence look extremely dignified. I wouldn’t mind if it was his agent or ‘a source’ saying these things, but it’s Julio himself, which sort of adds credence to it….add in Wenger’s ‘it’s up to the player now’ comments and I think it points to the fact that we have our offer on the table, but the player is not too interested. As many people have pointed out we already have VanPersie and Quincy to come through, so I’m coming round to the idea that maybe we would be better spending our cash on a keeper, defender, midfielder than a forward.
My picks:
Kameni - buy out clause of ?4m, Lauren is already at Highbury
Ramos - unlikely to come however, but I’d happily swap Cygan and ?4m for Distin to provide experienced comepetition for Toure.
Maduro - Ajax would accept an immediate profit on him, he’s been with the first team one year, just signed a new contract, but they have a surfeit of CM, if not how about Steven Pienaar or Ascuncao from Betis.
End of the day, I trust Wenger and Dein to do the right thing, even if that menas signing no-one because the quality is not available - for the record Davids is well past his best.
July 27th, 2005 at 4:10 pm
Candy-coat it however you wish.
We are NOT better, we are worse.
July 27th, 2005 at 10:50 pm
as usual, you are on target.
thank you
July 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
Well Helb did come out and say that he prefers to move to Arsenal than to money bags Chel$ki. He believes that Wenger will make him a better player. And he even watch an Arsenal game end of last season to see how good they were. Contrast that with Baptista who has all the classic symptoms of a football mercenary. I say dump him and look for someone else.
July 27th, 2005 at 11:22 pm
stag, my comments were tongue-in-cheek. maybe they did not come off that way.
but man….
you talk as if we’ll be fighting just to stay in the premiership! i mean, come on!!
at worst we will fight it out for SECOND place, and have a go in the FA cup and, who knows (?), maybe the CL as well.
that’s my worst case scenario.
meanwhile, on the flip side of that same coin…
we will blood our youngsters even more! they showed what they could do last season.
think of how we started and ended the season. we sprinted out of the gate w/out your beloved paddy, and finished w/out the universally-loved henry.
cesc shone bright at the start, and sendy sparkled at the end.
sprinkle in a little hleb, flamini, bentley, hopefully rvp, maybe some quincy and eboue and you’ve got yourself an exciting season to look forward to.
we may not win it all, but we will fight, and it will be fun to watch.
we now seem to be an unknown quantity. at least to some, anyway.
but as we often say…
arsene knows.
now go take your happy pill!!! ;^)