Aug 27
So, it seems that Jeremie Aliadiere has left his loan spell with Celtic and decided to go to West Ham instead.
Neverminding the fact that, y’know, WE could always use another set of feet, I just wonder how good or ill bouncing around loan spells is going to be for his Arsenal career. Where to next if he decides Upton Park ain’t the place for him just like Parkhead?
I like the kid, would rather see him in our shirt.
What say you?
48 Responses to “Aliadiere leaves Hoops, goes Hammerin’”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
August 27th, 2005 at 1:43 pm
I guess Wenger wants him to prove himself and there is not enough room for him at Arsenal to do so. I agree that we could use another pair of feet, but those are needed in midfield, in defence and in goal not in attack. I guess Wenger is also worried about the fact that Aliadere is injury prone and maybe he wants to save a few opportunities for Arturo Lupoli maybe.
August 27th, 2005 at 1:57 pm
am sure will do really well in the premiership and am happy tht he will be getting his playing time here in the EPL
if he gets enug starts and playing time pretty sure he will put in 10 odd goals for them…only trouble will he want to leave after that ala bentley
August 27th, 2005 at 7:07 pm
I think he’ll do really well for West Ham, providing he gets playing time. It was quickly apparent that he would NOT see much time at Celtic, when he hadn’t played in their first 4 matches. We possibly hoped he’d even get some CL time for them, but seeing they are already out of that competition…
Hope he does well at West Ham, I actually hoped he would get playing time for the Arsenal this season… but we signed Reyes long term, and RVP has been very good, so he’ll have to prove himself down the road for the Hammers.
Let’s hope he’s fantastic, and wants to come back. I see him doing well… 10 goals, and then going back to France to play. Without injuries, he “coulda been a contender”!
August 27th, 2005 at 8:17 pm
We all know that AW likes Ali since he was in France. The reason he brought him to Arsenal is to raise him up as an Arsenal player with his requirments. I think the injuries and his luck has pushed him back in our selection.
He is 22 now, and Maybe AW thought that by now he can pick some games while resting Henry. But having RVP and Reyes has increases the competetion.
I am sure AW wantes ALI to play now, so next year when Bergy leaves, he will have Henry, RVP, Reyes and ALI. Then Lupoli can step in if needed.
I dunno, but Arsenal need to rotates a bit more up front.
I havnt seen Bently, Lupoli, Quincy on the bench yet or even Hoyte.
August 28th, 2005 at 8:23 am
anyone else wondering y the hell he hasnt even been amongst the subs…after his amazing show at U-21 world cup i tght he wud be pushing VanP and FL8 for a starting spot (plays both striker and winger i think!) i have seen quite a bit of him and i really love his play..he cud really help against tight defences liek chleskis!
August 28th, 2005 at 11:15 am
i also have been expecting more appearances or even ten minutes here or there for quincy. in his brief appearances in games whuich meant little, a la league cup, he did VERY well, and whilst i didn’t see him this summer i read that he was a powerful force. could turn into being the real swp in the end.
but you never know what goes on in training. he could have come back tired and a little injured from U21, and because le boss wants to play him soon, ALLI has had to go walkabout. he may be higher in the pecking order than ALLI right now (which has got to be good for the team photos!). ooohhh, did i just say that out loud…
anyway, he’s a dynamo. and will make a difference in the future.
c
August 28th, 2005 at 11:27 am
From BBC…
Wenger is worried about Thierry Henry stalling on signing a new contract. Gee Arsene, maybe if you tried to improve the team by bringing in some proven talent in the off-season, like you SAID YOU WOULD, instead of selling Vieira, he’d see that we are trying to win every trophy NOW, not in 2 or 3 years time.
I don’t blame Henry at all for stalling. If I were him, I’d want to see where the club is going too. In 2 years he’ll be 30. We all have seen how Arsenal deal with 30+ year olds… stars or not. 1 year contracts. Hold your breath on this one kids, if Henry goes… it will take a LONG time before we get back to the lofty heights we’ve reached in the recent past.
Rumors have Hoyte going out… for Matt Poom, keeper…
Rumors have West Ham interested in Quincy. Of course they are, they have Ali now, and they know Quincy is just as talented.
Hell… for years West Ham has produced great young talent, and they’ve all left the club. Now they see the talent we are growing… and the kids can’t get into matches, so, they’ll eventually want to go…
Its a REAL DILEMMA… how to bring in the kids AND go for titles… with proven talent. I believe it has to be one way or another. You can sprinkle in a young player or 2… but with the amount of great young prospects we have in our system, they simply can NOT all play here. Unless we sweep out about 3 or 4 older players… NOW!
If we do that… Henry might say F-OFF! Why should he wait a few years for talent to develop when he is at his absolute PEAK. He shouldn’t.
I am glad I don’t have to make Arsene’s decisions sometimes, because you are damned if you do, and damned if you don’t… but hey, if you pay me his salary… I’d try!!!
August 28th, 2005 at 12:40 pm
That is a very negative prediction of events, one which sees everything going wrong for us in the future. Henry is the one player who is totally commited to us and I dont see him leaving anytime in the next 5 years. Even though I am prepared to admit that things can change very quickly in football.
Anyway its not as if bringing in new players is 100% in Wenger’s hands. Unless you have bags of money, which we dont, there are a lot of other factors outside our control.
Ali still has time to prove himself at West Ham and then come back to Arsenal.
August 28th, 2005 at 12:42 pm
You will see the players you mentioned above, on the bench as the seoson progresses and injuries and suspensions start to take their toll. Its early days still.
August 28th, 2005 at 12:45 pm
I saw an interview on Sky and basically he didn’t like the situation and didn’t see himself getting the time he needs to improve as a player.
As a professional these guys have to look out for themselves and do everything they can to promote themselves and get more money. I think he’s going to get some good time at West Ham. I hope they play him over that **AYE CARUMBA**(censored) sherringham.
I really don’t see him playing for Arsenal again. He will be a good one to loan out this year, but next year if he doesn’t play, I see him getting sold off to a French club.
August 28th, 2005 at 12:52 pm
Accept that Henry not wanting to sign a contract right now means, he is going to wait and see what Arsenal do. Its FACT.
We can either step up and improve, bring in a player or two to help us win NOW, with the money we DO HAVE, hell theres 14 MILLION alone from the sale of Vieira… or… the likes of Henry will want to leave. Who can blame him. We do not always treat players over 30 with due respect. He is 30 in 2 years.
Face the facts.
August 28th, 2005 at 12:53 pm
I agree…
if he plays well for West Ham, he will want full time action. If he doesn’t play well, he will be gone anyway. Its not always a good thing with loans.
August 28th, 2005 at 1:06 pm
But your statement assumes that there is someone out there who is 1. available, 2. affordable and 3. is willing to come here. Right now neither of us know if this is truly the case.
What about the youth players. We have so many exciting prospects that could succeed here. Maybe this is the year that some of them will finally get their chance.
I do agree though that we have been disrespecting the players who are over 30 and maybe we should be showing some leniency in that regard. Having said that it could just be a matter of perspective. In the last few years of the Arsenal back five, all of them were on year to year contracts and I never heard them complain too much. Then again those guys were around 34 or 35. While Pires is only 31.
August 28th, 2005 at 2:53 pm
I’m sorry, but there are hundreds of good players out there to purchase. There are many many countries with leagues. Wenger has been a master at finding players none of us have ever heard of… I don’t believe there aren’t players available. Say what you want, but Davids would have fit NICELY in our midfield. He could have played 25-30 matches. Cesc plays 25-30 matches. Gilberto plays 30 matches… Flamini gets sprinkled in there… its called rotation! Cesc hasn’t played well yet. He is a kid. At 18 there is already too much expected of him. Whats our option? Flamini and Gilberto?
Thats just one example. There are alot of good players out there that can be had. To think there isn’t, is naive.
August 28th, 2005 at 2:55 pm
Aliadiere is a good finisher but Im not sure he’s quite Arsenal class and unless your name is Ashley Cole, going out on Loan at Arsenal is akin to being told your not good enough.
When Aliadiere has started games I haven’t been very impressed. He produced absolutely nothing of note against Liverpool at Anfield or United in F.A cup semi-final and worryingly, for a goal-poacher, possesses the pace of a slug. He is very similar, from what i’ve seen, to Lupoli and I don’t think either of them will cut it at Arsenal.
On Thierry Henry, It seems the statement he made last summer about his future in light of a possible Vieira departure is ringing true. I remember he said he would re-consider his future if Vieira went to madrid. Vieira of course didn’t go, but his move to Juve has brought similar concerning statements from Thierry. His comments in the Arsenal programme didn’t exactly fill me with confidence and I believe he’s waiting to see how this season pans out.
I could see him going to Barcelona as he recently said he was honoured that Ronaldinho made public overtures towards him. I would bear him no grudge if he chose that option. He’s such a genuine and diplomatic guy that he will never do an Anelka and demand a move but ive noticed his declarations of affection for Arsenal have dried up recently and with henry, thats reason enough to think he’s re-assessing his future.
I do find it strange that this new stadium seems to be having no major effect on the player’s decision-making. Vieira didn’t really seem to care, and I can’t see it having a major effect on Henry’s decision either.
August 28th, 2005 at 2:57 pm
Cesc played well against Fulham, got an 8 out of 10. He played decent against Chelsea, certainly better than Lampard, the supposed best central midfielder in England, if not Europe.
August 28th, 2005 at 3:40 pm
He has not played like a world class midfielder, sorry. I don’t expect him to. He’s 18. Is he supposed to play 55 matches this year?
August 28th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
Not sure why opening a new stadium should have an effect on a player?
And Aliadiare has speed. He’s done well when he has played in my recent memory of him. He’s just been injured OFTEN.
We’ll see what he’s got at West Ham. Plain and simple.
August 28th, 2005 at 4:24 pm
Well, Vieira hasn’t played world-class for the last two. Not really relevant. Its about the team anyway and how the team plays as a unit. “World-class” players-whatever that means- are not guarantees of success. Whether he plays 55 matches, we’ll see.
August 28th, 2005 at 5:51 pm
If he plays 55 matches, we are doomed to win ZERO. Its too much to ask an 18 yr.old to do in the EPL.
August 28th, 2005 at 6:15 pm
Wenger is doing a George Graham, and fast. Big players have ledt and are not being replaced. Others are perhaps reaching their sell by date (Pires, Campbell). Our shining light Henry has to sign a new contract this year or he will have to be sold, we cannot afford to miss out on the ?25m+ transfer fee we would get to him.
The situation is precarious, and Wenger doesn’t seem to be able to see the danger signs. If Henry leaves within a season then more big names will follow, and we’ll be left with a bunch of kids who have potential but little else. This would be catastrophic.
Wenger needs to stop farting about and get real. This team badly needs players, so what if Fabregas, Senderos cannot get into the team for a while, they will have to work hard and prove their worth. Wenger is banking the club’s future on a handful of potentials.
This could go one of two ways. But this season will tell all. We could be moving to Emirates in a right mess, or maybe not. Wenger has to get this season right. If he does, I will forever bow to his genius.
August 28th, 2005 at 6:49 pm
absolutely, 100%, definitely… CORRECT.
If this season goes poorly… and the kids don’t shine and step up… Thierry Henry could possibly exit…
If that happens, we are set-back years…
It will be alot harder to bring in big name players… and we will be considered a “selling team”.
That is what I said the danger was with letting PV go… would it upset Henry… would he be replaced… how would it be viewed. Unfortunately, those issues are important.
If Henry were to depart, we’d be hoping for a shot at Europe again, with a bunch of potentially good kids. Is that where we are heading???
That would be a very sad day indeed.
Knowing Arsenal, if we sold Henry, we wouldn’t even spend the money to replace him.
Robinho was apparently ELECTRIC out there today for Real Madrid… he might have transformed the team?
Worrying times ahead… let’s hope LeBoss gets it all right… otherwise it could spell a big fall for us.
August 28th, 2005 at 6:56 pm
Yeah, I did find Wenger’s comment that buying experienced players would “kill” his youngsters, a tad over-the-top. I don’t think Fabregas would have slit his wrists if Wenger bought Baptista. He would have accepted it and knew there was only one player top-class player to compete with.
While Fabregas is a great talent, I will concede that he’s maybe not consistent enough to produce week in week out. Im not sure whether that Achille Emana guy is coming, but we could do with someone (Flamini doesn’t quite cut it for me).
As I stated numerously pre-season, I think our first team has the potential, if form is consistent, to win almost everything, including Champions League. However, the fact that I was relieved our game against Liverpool was re-scheduled makes me wonder. There is a certain vulnerability there at the moment. I could have really seen us getting spanked at Liverpool if we played them yesterday, but yet at the same time I think we are a better creative force than last year. Go figure.
August 28th, 2005 at 7:01 pm
Robinho was very good when he came on. Transformed the game. Those players are a different class to Ljungberg and Pires, and probably Hleb, when it comes to probing with the ball at their feet. Milan have got Kaka, Barca have got Ronaldinho, etc. Hleb’s the only guy with that potential from midfield.
I also watched bits of Juve tonight. Vieira played well. Seems to have got his hunger back. Good to see.
August 28th, 2005 at 7:05 pm
“potentially” we are a better creative team… but sometimes potential doesn’t pan out.
So far, from what I have seen from us… I haven’t seen much more creativity, thats for sure. It looks like the same team, with the same problems. When the opposition packs midfield and the box, we can’t break them down with the fine touch passes that we try in order to walk the ball into the net…
That hasn’t changed.
I am not sure what Chris Coleman and Fulham were thinking… but it didn’t make sense for that team to come out and play football with us… they should have played the same, pack the box game… especially after they led 1-0.
Until we figure out a plan B, when the pack the box game is played against us… we’ll win no trophies.
Newcastle stifled us, even down a man… and they have been horrible since then…
Chelsea will continue to do the same thing against us over and over… play “D” and wait for us to cough up an error… recently, we have…
We “could” emerge as a fabulous team, but we could also falter with the kids, and be in big trouble.
Its a big test for the club… and the consequences are HUGE.
August 28th, 2005 at 7:07 pm
I didn’t see Juve, but when I look at their line-up, I see Championships… they are strong all over the park. What channel was Juve shown on? Just curious.
August 28th, 2005 at 7:15 pm
Alot has been made of this Plan B, but I think our Plan A is good enough if our players are mentally right on the night. Too often we fall to pieces in Europe and we can’t even string a pass together, never mind play pretty football without end-product. Don’t ask me what style we play in Europe. We often resort to long-ball in europe after about 60 minutes. We’ve never even given our Plan A a chance to work properly in my opinion.
I think with Chelsea its becoming increasingly clear we’re playing a team whose luck knows no bounds. Check feature on Soccernet. This is not sour grapes, I honestly believe they are the luckiest team I have ever seen. Although they work hard, I’ll give them that.
August 28th, 2005 at 7:22 pm
The channel Bravo have somehow acquired the rights for Italian football.
Juve looked pretty good, however I notice they’ve lost their pre-season games to AC and Inter, and Chievo were piss poor. I’ll reserve judgment on the team with more fans outside Turin than in it.
August 28th, 2005 at 7:25 pm
There is an element of luck in all football. They were UN-lucky against Liverpool in the 2nd leg of the Semi’s… no angle I saw showed it was a goal.
But they play a style in which they wait for the other team to make an error… or in some instances, for their “lucky break” to occur. Good things happen to good teams. Sometimes its not luck… especially when it happens more often than not FOR them. All teams needs some luck to win the CL… that is for sure.
August 28th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
I’ll say this for the likes of Juventus… they certainly aren’t pinning their hopes on youngsters… they don’t need kids to step up for them to be successful. They have a great line-up of proven talent. At the end of the day, the cream usually rises to the top.
We had that 2 years ago, but things have certainly changed.
August 28th, 2005 at 7:36 pm
Whether you agree with our departures or not, it was becoming pretty obvious that the Vieira, Pires, Henry entente was not going to win us the euro cup. The fact that the team of 2 years ago couldn’t “break” Europe tells you that big-names don’t guarantee success. Give us Juventus in the second round and I think we can take em’.
August 28th, 2005 at 7:48 pm
I think we could DEFINITELY have won the CL 2 years ago, with Vieira, Pires and Henry leading the way. Lehmann cost us in both matches v. Chelsea. If we win that match, we probably go on to the finals. Thats old news.
Today, Vieira Pires and Henry would NOT lead us to the CL Final. I agree… but neither will the line-up we have. No way, no how. We needed to strenghen the team, I still say we weakened it. Its a LONG season, with many competitions. Depth shows.
We needed a Baptista, Robinho, or perhaps even an Owen? A game changer. Someone who can turn a game by himself, in one illustrious moment.
We don’t have that.
If we play Juventus, I believe they’ll teach us a footballing lesson. If you don’t think Vieira will be UP for those matches, you are insane. Like you said, he might have the hunger back. Paired with Emerson in the middle… they are formidable. There are no holes in there team. Sorry. We have potential holes all over the pitch.
Lehmann? Lauren? Senderos? Campbell? Pires? Cesc? Pick a partner for Henry?
I’d actually ENJOY seeing that match-up, but I don’t think we’d win it.
August 28th, 2005 at 8:05 pm
Yep, Lehmann on the surface cost us, but the fact we were outplayed by Chelsea in the most important half of my arsenal supporting life tells me that the team were bottlers. Think we would have cocked up against Monaco. Anyway, yes, old news.
While Fabregas hasn’t shown it in the league as yet, I still think this guy will be big-time danger in Europe. He’ll probably be at his best there. I know it was only Rosenborg, but his goal and performance told me he could be a match-winner at that level. He plays it as he sees it, and he will play the same methodical but positive game whether it be Rosenborg or Juventus. Thats how much faith I have in the Cesc.
Patrick Vieira, fully motivated and fit, could EAT US ALIVE in midfield. However, I remember him doing that for Arsenal in his peak against other teams, and yet we somehow lost. Partly because he got the proverbial nose-bleed when he reached the opposing area, and also because he was VERY unlucky. Hopefully that would count in our favour if we played Juve.
August 28th, 2005 at 8:49 pm
My gods, fellas. I’ve not seen this many panties in a bunch over a team since The Baltimore Colts up and moved to Indianapolis in the middle of the night. And at least their fans had some soild proof.
Check it out:
http://tinyurl.com/74obc
Why any of us think Wenger doesn’t see “the writing on the wall” escapes me. We haven’t made a star signing in 7 years or something. And every year Gooners the world over predict certain doom for the club. And every year, our success and failure comes down to a variety of factors none of which directly translate to the amount of money he’s been willing to spend.
And if he found someone willing to come for under 20 million, they would be here and would have taken someone’s first team job, no matter WHO was there first. The good news as I see it is that, now that Chelsea and Madrid have finally got their “last” man, its reasonable to think they’re done for now and the transfer market come January will operate with something resembling sanity. Until then, we’ll get better at playing together and maybe have a right decent season.
Who has actually left the club due to our lack of ambition in the past? Who has left that wasn’t already shown the door in so many ways and words? Players gripe all the time, and if they were good enough, they would shut up and be pulling on the red and white every weekend. If Wenger thinks a player would be better suited somewhere else, he lets them go. He considers their careers and advises them. “Players Who Have Moved On and Bad-Mouthed Wenger” is one of the shortest books ever written.
Patience is required here for us all to get a full view of our young club as it takes on the new season without Paddy and with Henry in a new position. Wenger knows how they feel. In fact, he knows better than any one of us. Suggesting that he’s blind to something and hasn’t thought something through is really rather precious.
And by some accounts, Paddy wasn’t exactly dominating in his recent outings with Juve. Should we give him a few weeks to get with the program, or should we shove him under the bus? I know what I’m going to do…trust Wenger that it was his time to go and concentrate on watching what we’ve got.
Good on Ali if he does well on loan at West Ham. Arsene knows if that’s where he should be. And Quincy is being looked at for a loan, not a sale. If he gets first team action, he’s got one man to thank.
August 28th, 2005 at 10:29 pm
Scotty, I believe it was Henry himself you said he’d think about his future at Arsenal if Vieira were to leave… and that was LAST YEAR when he almost went to Madrid.
The fact that he hasn’t signed an extension will definitely add fuel to the media’s fire, AND worry Arsenal supporters all over the world. And it damn well should.
If Arsenal were to have a below par season, and Henry decided that perhaps Barcelona was the best place for him to reach the heights of world football… it would be catastrophic for the Arsenal Football Club. I really really really don’t think this scenario is so far fetched at all.
Yes, the Arsenal Football club would go on regardless of who comes or goes or leaves or stays…. yadda yadda yadda… goodnite and god bless… but if he departed, we’d be right f’d… who’d want to come to a fading team? A team selling the Vieira’s and Henry’s of the world?
It IS SOMETHING to have serious concern about, at least in my estimation.
Vieira played pretty well today from what I read, and from what Mazza said he saw. If he is near his best, with the likes of Emerson in midfield with him… they could eat up the Arsenal midfield WHOLE in one sitting…
We can do nothing EXCEPT trust Wenger. Thats all there is to do… trust the man in charge.
I don’t particularly like the way we’ve played so far this season… nor do I like the lack of depth in the squad… or the idea of Quincy and Hoyte being loaned out, when the squad is so damned thin to begin with…
Depth of squad cost us in the past 2 seasons… LeBoss is brilliant, but he has also made some mistakes as well… nobody is perfect.
August 29th, 2005 at 7:16 am
Nobody really knows if Bentley, Lupoli or Ali is good enough for Arsenal. Henry wasn’t impressive in the initial games and neither were many others. You can judge by a few matches. Ali will probably make it, because Wenger usually gives French players a fair chance to show what they can do at Arsenal, and if he hasn’t it’s more because of his injuries that anything else.
August 29th, 2005 at 8:45 am
All I can say is we don’t know to what degree things being reported are true. A few weeks after Vieira said his most confident statements regarding staying, he was gone. As is so often the case, there is as much evidence to suggest both sides of every story, so speculation about what might happen is fine, but rarely something to put money on.
Here’s what I don’t get. Madrid win nothing two years running after spending hundreds of millions of dollars, and none of their stars want to leave. Why? I’m no expert when it comes to what people are actually thinking until they DO something about it, but my guess is they’re comfortable in the more forgiving Spanish league, believe that money will eventually see them through, like their paychecks and their status in a sunny country, and somewhere down the list is WINNING. If someone wants to leave The Premiership in the modern era, and its rare to see them return, they want something other than what we need them to want. So if Henry decides that at Barca is where he needs to be, its about something other than what The Arsenal feels they need to do to compete in England. There’s very little evidence he can accumulate that can challenge our “ambitions” against his own, other than we’re not rich enough.
And I’m so weary with Vieira talk, to be honest. Why can’t we see that Wenger did what he had to do? Why do we keep thinking he who’s job it is to do what’s best for the club made a mistake? Don’t you think that’s a little arrogant? It wouldn’t matter if we’d done the treble. Vieira didn’t like the little stars pressuring his place and succeeding in his absence, wasn’t satisfied with what was a totally fair valuation of his play, and didn’t have the stems for English football anymore. If he doesn’t tear it up in Serie A, he should seriously consider Ligue 1 on down until he does. As soon as our players are able to shake this psychological bug that the media and some Paddy-lovers help needlessly perpetuate after his departure, the better we’ll be.
My overall point is that Wenger sees the club day in and out, and knows how they get on and who is best for our success as we come within a few months of embarking on a HUGE chapter in club history. If another player is upset that the club is overshadowing his presence, and that he’d rather run circles in a kinder league so they can save it up for the CL, he’s every right to go. There will always be players who want to play in England for the Arsenal. They’re the ones Wenger can make into stars and teach how to play exciting football that people will remember.
Yes, Henry may decide Barca is where he can achieve the most. But in my opinion, it would say the same thing that it says for Vieira: he couldn’t hack his chances in England, he’s running from Chelsea, and he wants more money while his wares run down.
August 29th, 2005 at 12:45 pm
Scotty, totally disagree on the likes of Vieira and Henry. I think Arsenal WANTED Vieira gone this time, and prodded him to depart.
He certainly could “hack” English football, and acheived everything domestically that was possible.
Henry, on the other hand is the best striker in the world. If he wants to leave because Arsenal’s ambitions lay a few years ahead and are based on the kids growing into stars… a real RISKY proposition, it has ZERO to do with him not hacking it in England. He eats ENGLISH CLUBS up. He does well against Chelsea, and makes ALOT of money.
It would simply be down to Arsenal not attempting to win the CL and compete at the level of play Thierry Henry possesses.
Henry and Vieira aren’t running from anyone or anything. They want to win, NOW. Not in 2 or 3 years when we see if the kids pan out. Thats the thinking of WANNABE’s… not Champions.
August 29th, 2005 at 1:11 pm
Good points, but I guess we’re on oppposite sides of the same coin in regards to the club’s intentions and Paddy’s knees.
Why would Wenger prod Vieira to depart? It was a big move in terms of the psychology and exprience level of our club, and a game Paddy is certainly worth holding onto. My opinion is that they both came to the decision that he would do better in Italian football at Juve. He would get a better valuation in Serie A. Wenger wouldn’t want to watch him spend half the season out injured, disinterested from personal stagnation or playing at 70% when he could play for Juve, get a refreshing change, and with some experienced help in Emerson perform at 80-90%. I think they took a look at the big picture and were men about it. So far, all comments from both parties have born out that theory.
And I don’t think our ambitions are anything other than what we can afford to have at the moment and to win everything. Wenger has said over and over that this is not a rebuild year. We either take him at his word or not. I know you think we’re not getting the whole story and that we should be collecting some experience. But even so, its not that easy to drop into our club with Wenger’s philosophy at the helm. We’re exclusive in a way that draws a differing profile than a galactico one. You know this stuff. Only a few fit the profile, and for someone else to come in they either have to better than what we have getting first team action or willing to work their way in from the bench. Its a philosophy based on financial conservatism and the desire to play beautiful football. It also happens to be a winning one. Hleb passed on Chelsea money because he didn’t want to play negative, boring football. He’d be favored up and down to win everything, but his ambitions align more closely with our big picture, belief in creative/attacking football, and a future where we can compete in the transfer market. He’s a rare one, and those guys are hard to find by definition. I think Henry is on that page, too. We know little more about why he hasn’t signed.
And would it really matter if Henry had signed by the start of the season? Are contracts anything more than engagement rings that provide security for the player anymore?
And I think we ARE a big club in terms of the CL. Many have said we’ve underachieved, but not to the extent that leaving to go to another big club would guarantee anyone anything. Among other things surely like money, living conditions, etc. I think its a combination of a) wanting a change, b) age and ability, c) fitness, and d) where you fit in in club philosophy.
Great players have left our club throughout the years. Few of them have really gone on to achieve things they couldn’t acheive with us (Gio?). Its just more of gamble to leave to win the CL than I think you make it out to be. Maybe not. Just where I sit on the pessi/opto meter, I guess.
August 29th, 2005 at 1:52 pm
Messi, the best U-21 player out there comes off the bench for Barca…while we are placing our hopes on Cesc, Senderos and Flamini to win the titles..Other CL contenders have chosen experienced players to win the titles over youth..I think Chelsea has gotten into AW’s head..He is hell bent on proving that he can win the titles without spending money, which might prove to be our downfall…I think Henry realizes this and is forcing AW’s hand to spend the money by holding out…If so, I agree with Henry’s strategy…AW has to realize that if he is going to fill the new stadium he needs a winning team not just pretty football.
August 29th, 2005 at 2:06 pm
Personally, I think the CL is a crap shoot in many regards… but I’d say Juve have a far better chance to win it than we do. There line-up is fantastic. No need for kids to perform miracles any where on the pitch for them to succeed in Serie A or in the CL. Thats pretty comforting.
We are a big team in some respects, but not in others. Our resume in Europe says Not Quite… and our spending policy says No. Big teams know when they are on the brink of greatness… and go get the KEY ingredient to get them over the top.
You can spend WISELY and STILL get the STAR PLAYER that puts you over.
See: New England Patriots, Corey Dillon.
All I can say is… if Henry doesn’t sign, and he moves on next year… DOOM. It would be a sign that could not be erased from Arsenal. The scarlet “S” for Selling Team.
August 29th, 2005 at 3:01 pm
Agree the CL is a crapshoot in many respects. But let’s say that Juve are better prepared to win it, or Real or Barca…we really can’t compare to them as they are in different leagues and have different schedules, etc. All we can do is look at our league and our resources. If there’s a star player out there that we can afford, I’m sure Wenger knows about him. How can we say he hasn’t? If he’s not here, he’s either speaks Spanish, needs the sunshine, wants a World Cup spot, or took the biggest payday he could find. None of which we can compete with or do anything about. Moving on.
I also think our spending policy is to spend what we can when we need someone and pay our players what they’re worth. Pretty basic, really. To think it should be anything else is getting caught up in the Chelsea’s and Madrid’s where they spend what it takes. If that’s what a big club is these days, then you’re right?we’re not a big club. Not for a few years anyway. Thank gods the increased revenue from the new stadium will change that to some extent.
We’re doing what we can and competing. If that’s not enough for Henry, and he no longer likes his life in London, then he can go. Let’s see what he wins elsewhere. I wish him the best. As far as his leaving scaring off other big names and leaving us doomed, well, Chelsea, Madrid and Barca can’t have everyone. And there will still be players who come to play for the way we play and our history as a growing club.
I just refuse to subscribe to some self-destructive theory that Wenger has a hard-on to field a side full of the youngest players he can alongside those long in the tooth who are willing to negotiate a year at a time. He’s got a legacy to protect, and won’t get goaded into dumping the kitty on a player or two just because they’ve been around the block. We have our Corey Dillon if people would find it in themselves to believe that our young talent can do it. I call that the Brian Westbrook theory. ;^)
One can either take Vieira, Edu’s and hypothetically Henry’s leaving as an indication that we’re a “selling team” in the traditional sense, or one can look closer and see what’s really going on. We’re different. That’s why we’re up in the world rankings and have a healthy trophy cabinet while spending as little as we do.
S’not easy being the odd fish. Acquired taste, I suppose.
August 29th, 2005 at 3:37 pm
Good points Scotty. I think Wenger is desperate to make Arsenal at least one of the top three clubs in the world, and realises we need our niche’ and selling point to differentiate us from the Madrid’s and Milan’s. That selling point is our unique, if flawed, style of football. While our history is steeped with domestic glory and tradition, Wenger realises that Chapman’s 1930’s legacy won’t convert the average american or asian to follow our team when compared with Milan’s or Madrid’s European successes. However, if someone tells them that Arsenal play the most attractive football on god’s green earth, they’re gonna pay attention and take note, especially with the prevalence of “iron curtain” football played by Chelsea and Bayern Munich.
With the new stadium approaching Wenger can see his dream slowly becoming reality and is ready to implement his full footballing philosophy which has maybe been compromised over the years by pressure to win trophies and sign english players. He obviously feels our way of playing is accessible only to a select few players and realises the only way to improve our group is to buy super-talented players such as Baptista or Robinho or catch them young so that they can be moulded on the training ground. Many people, me included, thought Scott Parker was a snip at ?6 million, but would he have been able to adjust to Wenger’s philosophy, especially after spending a year with the dour Mourinho? I’m not so sure.
Hleb’s statement that he chose Arsenal because of their football is an encouraging sign and other players, whose footballing fulfillment is more important than their bank balance, could decide to join the party. Either way, Wenger’s would wants to succeed or fail being true to himself. I will be with him all the way.
August 29th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Sorry to butt in on your conversation, but I?ve got to know: is ?ScottyUS? Arsene Wenger?s pseudonym? Are you Arsene Wenger is disguise? That was stated brilliantly!
To think that Arsene would knowingly act to damage the team he has built is ludicrous. Not only does he have his legacy to protect, he has the future of what he has been building for the last decade to protect. He is trying to create the model 21st century footballing organization, an organization that boasts the highest quality stadium and training facilities, a sophisticated front office with financial savvy and political clout, and a dynamic team that plays the most attractive soccer in the world.
I think one could easily argue that his efforts are paying off. Our track record of success is self-evident, and it is apparent that Arsenal?s global popularity is on the rise. The biggest mistake we could make now is to lose our discipline and panic.
As for Viera and Henry, Arsene offered Viera the opportunity to be the on-the-pitch leader of this footballing reformation, and for whatever reason he didn?t want it or couldn?t cut it. He is now offering Henry that chance. If Henry decides he doesn?t want it and joins Barcelona instead, so be it. However, I think he would be making a big mistake for he would passing up an opportunity bigger than winning the Champions League title.
August 29th, 2005 at 8:35 pm
have you read “scottyus” full dissertation up above? great reasoning, tainted with deserved optimism and the right amount of trust. the best read i’ve had over an evening cup of tea since i put down “the professor” by myles palmer. no problem with being positive.
i have much more worries over bad timing with “safety subsitutions” with le boss than i do overall signings. yes, he may be overly cautious, may be a boss who is picky when it comes to interviews and doesn’t just go with the resume, he needs to KNOW them first, but his calculations are not often wrong (except frickin’ jeffers, for christ’s sake…).
other side, we need that ONE signing to prove he can buy big when it is right. van bommel a missed opportunity? anyone…anyone…bueller…
August 29th, 2005 at 10:02 pm
Are you for real?
Vieira was the FOUNDATION for all the trophies we won over the past 9 years.
If Thierry Henry leaves, he couldn’t cut it? What? What absolute non-sense. It would be a big mistake for Arsenal to get to the point that he would want to go.
Guys, Arsenal are a wonderful football club… I love the Arsenal… no matter what I will support the team, but please, we are not the end all be all in the eyes of world class footballers. We could have been… We still could be… but not with letting our best players go… “because they couldn’t cut it”? what a joke.
August 30th, 2005 at 8:24 am
I’m inclined to think that Wenger was the foundation for all the trophies, Stag. I say that not because he was the one out there on the pitch dominating from box to box, but because no matter who’s come and gone they’ve been replaced. There just is no “talismania” without him.
And I apoplogize if I’ve suggested somehow that we’re the end all be all of clubs in the eyes of world class footballers. But we are attractive in different ways than other clubs to footballers of a particular “class”. And by “cutting it” I think it could be accurate in the context of valuation for one’s club. As soon as it dips, for injury reasons or lack of heart, then you’re not cutting it. Usually big players like Paddy go to other leagues because they don’t want to play against their old club, or they want something easier on the legs. Of course he’s still world class, just not for The Arsenal anymore.
And not to put too fine a point on it (though I tend to do that, sorry) but when one looks at our club and their finances, one would have to see that we’re a top of the table club ? both in the Premiership and Europe ? utilizing mid-table finance policies. That speaks to the manager and the board. Where are the rest that spend like we do or more? My answer is that they don’t have a vision like Wenger’s, which is attractive to the type of footballer who likes our style of play and the way we run a club. Those who play out their careers here prefer The Arsenal way. Those who leave do for a variety of reasons that are often negotiated by Wenger himself.
Like I said, not a giant per se, but a big club with its own signature.
August 30th, 2005 at 10:25 am
I would certainly never imply that Viera did not play a big part in Arsenal?s success over the last decade. For many years, he was the most dominant player in the League. I know you believe he is still a player of that caliber, but the bottom line is his time for Arsenal is past. Whether that is because he didn?t want to stay or whether Arsene thought he had gotten as much out of him as he could we will never know - it is likely some combination of the two. Regardless, we?ve got to look forward now. He will not be leading the team out onto the pitch during our first season at Emirates.
I also did not intend to say that we are the ?end all be all in the eyes of world-class footballers.? The true intent of my previous statement was to argue that Arsene is working to evolve the club into a world-class organization, one that would be able to offer the highest caliber players the best footballing environment. I agree with you that we are not there yet. However, the club have come a long way toward achieving that status since Arsene got here, and I firmly believe we will have substantially more to offer in five and ten years time.
As for Henry, he now has the opportunity to be the Captain that leads the club into Emirates and become the namesake that helps Arsenal to become a top European club. Of course, it is possible that, like Viera, he will leave ?for whatever reason.? If he does, Arsene and/or his successor will have to find a way to compete without him. That is what top clubs do.