Ed. Note - We’ve received plenty of comments from people complaining about too much negativity here. Well, we can only print what we receive. Personally, I don’t fully agree with the comments made here, but the point is to have open discussions…
Arsene Wenger’s managerial strengths and weaknesses have been called into question recently after he let Vieira leave and didn’t (or failed to) get a replacement. There has been a lot of discussion about his strengths - eye for young talent, astute money management, etc. I just wanted to debate on what are his perceived weaknesses and what do other people think. I list my top four and open the house for debate.
1. He doesn’t like British players, i.e., he prefers foreigners. I know that not all British players are good, but let me quote some examples - Upson vs Cygan. Stuart Taylor vs Almunia. In both cases, the former was better than the latter, but they were let go. Why? True, Jeffers was not worth it and maybe even Richard Wright. But Pennant and Bentley are decent talents. To just say that other players are better and hence they were let go is an easy option. But to persist with them is harder. Pires is aging and Reyes hasn’t exactly shined. So doesn’t it make sense to keep Bentley?
2. Lack of Rotation: When have you seen Wenger shuffle the team? He likes stability (who doesn’t) and changes things only when there are injuries, suspensions, or (in rare cases) players are not doing well. But have you seen him change the team when all is well? You don’t have to make wholesale changes, just one or two. Now one might ask, why should he? Good question. The answer is quite simple - to keep everyone fresh and give playing time to all. If he had done so, who knows, players like Upson and Taylor might have stayed. Didn’t they leave because they didn’t get enough playing time? Cygan and Almunia don’t mind warming the bench. Others do.
3. Contract Negotiation -> I am not too sure that Wenger is a great negotiater. I am basing this on the very simple fact that far too many people have been let go on free transfers causing Arsenal to lose a lot of money. Look at Wiltord - he went to Lyon and is a big success there. Agreed, he couldn’t make it at Arsenal. But why did we let him leave on a free? Same case with Kanu and Edu. Now the same could happen with Gilberto (who is in his last year). I also dare say that by selling Vieira a year later, Arsenal got only half as much as they could have otherwise.
4. Wenger has a great eye for attacking players, but he can’t seem to spot good defenders and keepers. Only Senderos and Clichy are his good signings. Others were either home grown (Cole), arrived on free (Campbell), converted to defenders (Lauren and Toure) or just not good enough (Cygan, Lehmann and Almunia). Some good players (Upson and Taylor) were allowed to leave. Somehow he seems very reluctant to spend on defensive players.
94 Responses to “Wenger’s weaknesses”
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August 30th, 2005 at 8:15 am
God Nipuna,
What have you just started. As much as I do agree with you, you are going to have a sudden violent outburst of emotion and cheap shots coming your way. Most folks here are going to kill you for saying something that is true but will not admit to it.
Remember Wenger is God’s first Child
Well said but be careful. I have seen it all here before. People will attack you without any facts or points.
August 30th, 2005 at 8:58 am
I read today that Justin Hoyte is likely to join Sunderland on loan.
Wenger has said he doesn’t need to buy anyone else this season, because all our kids are ready to step up:
Pennant - Sold
Bentley - Accepted transfer request
Hoyte - Loaned Out
Aliadiere - Loaned Out
Taylor - Sold
Karbassyion - Sold
Clichy - Rotation
Abeyie - Carling Cup fodder
Lupoli - Carling Cup fodder
Eboue - Carling Cup fodder
Senderos - dropped
Fabregas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!
Do you still trust Wenger? I can’t say I do. There is a clear contradiction between what Wenger says and what he does. How can we believe in the kids when Wenger obviously does not believe in them himself?
Now it seems that Wenger is after Poom. This completely flies in the face of his assertion of not making short term purchases of old players. Smells of a panic buy to me.
But, I’m still patiently waiting to see how things unfold, I believe the next 4 games will map out the season - the manner of the performances not just the results.
August 30th, 2005 at 9:49 am
I don’t disagree with your assessments, nipuna. All one can do is guess as to why Wenger plays his cards like he does.
1 - Cygan is and will always be a mystery to me. He was rated in France, but what does that tell you. Which brings me to Wiltord. He’s in his element. Not that he wasn’t good, he just didn’t play as much as he wanted and was dubbed surplus to needs. Bentley got his taste of first team football and refuses to wait his turn, Pennant was a drunk, and Almunia is the second mystery, although he helped assure us silverware last season.
2- Rotation. All I can say is that maybe Wenger plays the best player as long as they feel good. He’s a big fitness innovator for The Premiership and one has to trust his instincts here. However, 4 games in ten days will kill anyone.
3- My guess on contract stuff is Wenger holds out as long as he can to judge the fitness and form of who he has in comparison to who he has coming up. He loves his players, but he’s building something here. At least he sets them up well when they leave. It might come off a little cold, but those who have hung in there have done well. Aliadiere still wants to play under him.
4- Attackers vs. Defenders. Wenger likes utility, and he expects his entire club to be able to be dangerous in the final third (Kolo, Ashley, Lauren). Makes for jumpy defenders, and I’m not always of the mind that its working. Especially last season, I think we could have used a bit more simplification and focus in the back and an emphasis on set pieces.
And just so Love G doesn’t get disappointed, I will say “how dare you attack Wenger. Don’t you know he’s the manager born in a manger and turned water into silverware?!?” ;^)
August 30th, 2005 at 10:01 am
The reason why these ?negative? posts are ridiculed I not some blind support for Wenger. It is because the posts tend to be so factually wrong it?s insulting. Where they are not wrong, they are na?ve, at best. So I don?t really know if to assume you are just na?ve or trying to cause trouble. That said, I will back of insulting, and itemize the folly. And, please don?t act like some victim after what you just published?this is just a point by point refutation?.
He doesn’t like British players, i.e., he prefers foreigners.
Let?s see. Cygan rarely plays?If I recollect correctly, Upson demanded a transfer because of playing time. Certainly, you don?t believe that Upson should play ahead of Campbell, Toure or Senderos. As for Taylor, Pennant and Bentley they all have very serious limitations. Notice there is no club of any quality trying to buy them. Lastly with Pennant and Bentley, in particular, look at the quality ahead of at Arsenal. Look at a player like Quincy who quietly waits for his chance, and he has bundles more talent than the both of them combined.
Lack of Rotation:
Why don?t you just be a manager. Last year, Man Utd. Used the vast rotation policy and look what happened to them. Maybe we should just have mass referendums at Highbury before every game. Yes, he as been a successful manager for an extended period of time because of his management skills.
Contract Negotiation
?um…to question Arsene?s transfer and negotiation acumen is really a riot. I will let you hang yourself. Arsenal is working on a fraction of the budget that our nearest peers are. Just thank the man and be silent. He obviously has a strategy. It has worked over the years (Kanu, Wiltord? Did you notice that you couldn?t any truly big names like?.Sol who he got on a free).
Wenger has a great eye for attacking players, but he can’t seem to spot good defenders and keepers.
Wow?.Upson is a good player?? We can argue about this forever, but I believ lehmann is quality. In that he has converted players like Toure and Lauren , why does he not get credit in your book for that. He also converted Henry. That is what an eye for attacking defenders is. Also, who cares if Campbell came on a free. Wenger got him!
August 30th, 2005 at 10:06 am
I get what you are saying, but I cant say that I totally see your point here with a few of the players.
Pennant had to go, i’ve heard stories from inside the club that never reached the press and it’s fair to say that he had his fair shot at changing his attitude. With regards to Bentley, yes I am sad to see that he may be off, but when you look at the players we have that are in front of him in terms of position (a point that Wenger has already made); Van Persie, Hleb, Reyes, Ljungberg, Pires, Henry, Fabregas even to name but a few (I think Wenger mentioned 8 players?) where else but the bench is there? You can’t tell me that he’d be starting above Freddy or Pires for at least a few years and in Reyes, Van Persie and Hleb (who would be a natural cover for the right side if Pires continues on the left) the postions Bentley would be fighting for are all sewn up. A player of his quality needs to move on. They cant warm the bench for half of their career. I can understand the principle of Alidiadiere going out to build up Prem exp because I can see him becoming the player that we have been crying out for for the last few years, a natural partner for Thierry. You can’t throw him in at this level after being out for so long and expect him to do a job for us. The exp gained at West Ham will prove invaluable to him and us ultimately. Gael is ready for first team action, if he stays injury free we will see a lot more of him this season and I think will challenge Ash if he is even with us next season, perhaps even for the end of this one. Lupoli is still not strong enough for the EPL. Big Phil has been taken out of the squad in order for him to refocus after a difficult start. I’m sure we will see him back in the lineup for Boro. The others I pretty much agree on with you. A bit of a ramble I know but I really am tired of people hammering Wenger. When you look at our first team barring Central Midfield where I do think we need a strong ball winner to play against your Boltons/Blackburns of your EPL, I think our team is more than capable of winning the league, if not going the whole way in Europe. I agree with the Viera sale but am critical of Wenger for not having a definate replacement.
Rant over!
August 30th, 2005 at 10:11 am
Err point 4….
Senderos and Clichy are good - correct
Cole was homegrown - put in first team by Wenger
Campbell was free - signed by Wenger
Lauren converted and Toure converted from centre half to centre half!- by Wenger
Lehmann - apart from the odd moment of madness quite good actually. Makes about the same number of mistakes as Cudicini and Van der Saar each season.
So that makes Cygan and Almunia the bad defensive signings.
I’m not saying that Wenger shouldn’t splash the cash and buy us a goalkeeper and a centre half, but there are none of the quality required available. If anything Wenger’s greatest weakness is his inability to spot/sign a great keeper - of course, he did try to get Cech a few years ago!
August 30th, 2005 at 10:26 am
What the heck…Do you want the entire squad to be kids:
The regulars
Cole
Fabregas
Van Persie
Reyes
Senderos
Hleb
in addition to squad players like Clichy, Lupoli, Eboue, and Song.
As for Hoyte, we have excessive cover at CB and RB, no?
August 30th, 2005 at 10:32 am
The one thing perhaps that needs to be mentioned is whether Nipuna goes to the reserve games to see the likes of Bentley,Taylor etc.Take it from us regulars who go to both the premiership as well as Monday night at Underhill. All the english players you have mentioned are not good enough for Arsenal. Taylor will not even make it with Aston Villa as first choice. To say Wenger does not like english players is just plain silly. When you watch the reserve side it is quite clear that the foreign players AW brings to the club are way ahead of their english counterparts. Cesc was a relatively unkown youngster and now you all cant wait to fall over themselves to praise. Similarly those who regularly see Eboue play know he is better than Hoyte who has potential and can if he goes to Sunderland gain valuable experience. Also consider how Wenger treated the famous back four of Adams,Keown,Winterbourn & Bould as well Ray Parlour that shows what respect he has for players in this case all english. Pennant on the other hand was trouble and got what he deserved.
As for transfer negotiations Wenger has no peers in the premiership, you only have to look what he has acheived and see what those have left Arsenal have acheived to realise that he is a genius. If you criticise please in future make sure you have your facts straight. I am going to the Leicester reserve match today I hope Nipuna will be there to see what talent Wenger has on display!
August 30th, 2005 at 10:41 am
it would help if we can access things from more than one angle.
AW against English players?
then WHY he bothered to make Upson one of his early signings?
and bidded 2 mil for a 15-yr-old Pennant?
WHY he kept faith on our old back 5 during the early years, when the media been kept putting them off as they were old and past it?
and if anyone can remember, when he was at Monaco, two of his major signings were Glen Hoddle and Mark Hateley. Both Englishmen.
and how to explain the foreign young players who couldn’t cut it and exit from Highbury over years?
obomba got a great point. take Upson as an example, he had Keown, Sol, Kolo ahead of him, as a young central half, it’s for his best interest he had to move on. Players like Cygan, he’s willing to stay with Arsenal as a 4th chocie central half. So why lay all the blame on AW?
the bottom line is - if you are a good professional, go and do a good job whenever u r on the pitch, regardless of your nationality, you would get ur chance. Look no further than Parlour. He’s by no mean the most talented player in Arsenal, but AW handed him his share of first team chances and help improved his game to eventally winning an England call up. Parlour for England? Could anyone possibly imagine that before AW arrived? So WHY Parlour made it and Pennant not? Just look at the two players approach to the game on the pitch.
It’s ironic that when we are urging AW to sign more players (including attackers as many suggested), yet at the same time we are mouring about the lack of chances for Bentley, Quincy.
The CONTRACT NEGOTIATION. Can anyone be even sure it’s really AW who made the call? My impression is comes to the contract part, it’s Dein and the board making the call. Otherwise AW may have already handed Pires a new longer contracts as he requested.
POOR EYE FOR DEFENDERS? Let’s look at the way we played: most of the time our full backs committed themselves forward, it left only two central halfs sitting on our own half. It don’t make any difference even if it’s Adams or Maldini at the back, it’s bounded to be difficult. In Cole, Lehmann, Sol, Kolo, Senderos, we have a set of solid defenders if not spectaular.
August 30th, 2005 at 10:45 am
You cant play kids over seasoned pro’s - just because Wenger says that they are ready to play doesn’t mean that they are better than what we already have!
August 30th, 2005 at 10:49 am
It sucks that Vieira left but I personally don’t feel he had such a huge impact last year. Don?t get me wrong he?s an amazing player and one of the best when he?s healthy, key word ?healthy? Arsenal has proven they can win without him if you can remember last season. Mentally it was tough to lose him and that?s something they must overcome and will. Playing 200 million dollar Chelsea will and should always be a tough game. Luckily Drogba?s kneecap was in the right place at the right time!
OK if I were coach Van Persie and Reyes would of started and every practice from now on would have Henry doing nothing but headers while Pires played Rugby!
PEACE!
Tony
August 30th, 2005 at 10:50 am
“you are waiting patiently “but at the same time you state that” you don’t trust Wenger”, what would you like him to do, go another season
unbeaten whilst managing to save the board enough funds so we can build the best club stadium in England.I could argue with nearly every point you make, for instance, how much of Justin Hoyte have you actually seen live?because when I have seen him he looks decidely average and we have bougtht a more capable right back called Eboue but you seem outraged that we could consider loaning our third choice right back out,why?Who do you suggest we install as our manager as you clearly have lost faith in the best manager in Arsenal’s history.
August 30th, 2005 at 11:00 am
a
August 30th, 2005 at 11:12 am
Wow now you dont trust Wenger but then again you never did.
Who is asking you to believe in the kids above. If you dont believe in them than dont.
And what do you mean by panic buy, Wenger does not do panic buys. Just because the guy is old does not mean he is a panic buy. Wenger might be bringing him in as a stop gap measure.
August 30th, 2005 at 11:12 am
You sad lot…..I’m sure that if as soon as another game is lost, you’ll be waiting to stick the knives in further!
Fact is the team’s done so well - head and shoulders above others in comparison with limited resources???so how can arguments be made to this and that whereas its obvious that He must be doing something right????
Why should there be ’special’ treatment to players just cos their English? It’s no longer a national game but one of appreciating football for football and not what country someone’s from - that’s the real discrimination if someone should be chosen just cos their English.
People are still trying to rate Upson - quite frankly Cygan is actually a more technically gifted player than Upson and what a time for him to come in for criticism after just scoring two goals??!
Accepted, he doesn’t have pace but I can’t see that he’s any less than Hyypia - so not bad for a sub who doesn’t mouth off about being in the reserves for most the time!
Finally, maybe it could be accepted that He tends to keep things the same and is therefore perhaps slow in response with substitutions and Jan transfer windows but perhaps again when you look at his record, that may even have been more in favour than having tinkered with things where the opposite effect of de-stabilising could occur……
All the current players are in the line up through merit of being the best available to the team - the likes of Robhino and The Beast would have earned a place in the starting line up - it’s pretty obvious to see that would not have occurred immediately with Pennant or Bentley although the opportunity has without question been made available.
August 30th, 2005 at 11:15 am
try this for a cheap shot,Wenger apparently doesn’t know how to buy a defender,so how did
we go an entire season unbeaten?
Campbell -superb purchase helped win us the double in his first season and we got him from our local rivals.
Toure purchased for a whopping ?250,000 and help form one of the best defensive partnerships in a season.
Clichy one of the brightest left back reserves in the premiership……………
yeah I have to agree Wenger hasn’t got a clue…..let’s put you in charge as you clearly have it all sussed out.Who would be your first purchase jimmy Carter?
August 30th, 2005 at 11:19 am
the best example of goin iverboard with ur criticism…dont criticise just for the sake of it..cesc and flamini, reyes, senderos van P r all getting major first team actiong..wud u like it if we replaced henry with lupoli , lauren with eboue, FL8 with bentley, gilberto with Abeyie or song…wud tht make u happy and SHUT UR TRAP!!! from ur point of view wenger is just in a lose lose situation vot the hell is he supposed to do…seriously keep it in check man…
August 30th, 2005 at 11:25 am
Good points Scotty. I was going to post the exact same points but you took the words right out of my mouth. Its too harsh an assesment of Wenger to say that he doesnt spot good defenders and you are right when you say that Wenger values utility.
August 30th, 2005 at 11:27 am
ba55, simply, had Upson remained with Arsenal, we played him, he made a few mistakes like he did with Birmingham, folks would be calling AW to buy a top class central back because kids are just not good enough.
August 30th, 2005 at 11:30 am
Finally someone who agrees with me. Thank You indian_gooner.
This guy DannyT always thinks that we are in a loosing situation and that iminent doom is just around the corner. Its sad and undermining of the fans confidence and needs to stop.
Again, nice to come across a like minded individual like yourself.
August 30th, 2005 at 11:34 am
What the F**K is it exactly that makes you think that you have all the facts. Any critism of your point and thats a cheap shot but your points are facts?!!!!
Get real and drop that Guru posture and demeanor, its seriously wearing off and looking pathetic.
August 30th, 2005 at 12:08 pm
ChapaJaluo - you came up with some good points but to say he should take it from regulars like you kill off your argument. Is like saying Americans don’t have a clue cuz they watch the games on Tele. I met lot of folks at Nevada Smith during my stay there and most guys knows about the game.
Can I then say I might be better than you cuz I have a season ticket, Used to played football and still have friends within the game and friends within Arsenal. Lol.. Not to forget I have been to 3 Arsenal players party within the last 6 months
August 30th, 2005 at 12:09 pm
I guess the post below is yours.
August 30th, 2005 at 12:11 pm
I can’t reply to Anonymous.
August 30th, 2005 at 12:17 pm
Thanks Scotty and you did not disappoint at all.
I guess Rick should have warn the guy before he wrote that post. This might be this first and last.
August 30th, 2005 at 12:26 pm
This post is not for/about the Arsenal club/squad per se but for the Gooners in the Southern US affteced by Hurricane Katrina. Like myself, there are no doubt numerous Gunners who are now refugees dispersed throughout the Southern US fleeing from the devastating affects of Katrina.
Thankfully for myself I was already moving to Florida this past weekend already but I wanted to give thoughts & prayers to those (both Gunners & all citizens alike) that will have to live in the areas of New Orleans, SE Louisiana, Gulfport, Pascagoula, Biloxi, Southern Mississippi; Mobile, Alabama, etc. Especially to hometown of New Orleans which is currently under anywhere from 3-12 feet of water & from last reports, the water is still rising b/c of levee breaches.
With power outages estimated of upwards to a month’s time & the sweltering heat & humidity of the US Gulf Coast in late August, early September, this will be a nightmare for those who didn’t evacuate to live through. Coupled with trapped flood water in New Orleans, the high mosquito population in the South, this is a recipe for medical disaster with things such as dehydration, heat exhausation, heat stroke, encephalitis, water contamination from sewage seeping into the flood waters, disease carrying vermin, etc. etc.
Guys, please, let’s give our thoughts & prayers to those left behind, those who couldn’t get out in time & those who may not have much of a home ( I fall in this latter category) to return to when we/they are allowed to return in about a week’s time at the earliest.
August 30th, 2005 at 12:26 pm
I loved this site and as Rick said the point is to have open discussions.. We can agree and disagree with Nipuna but here is my question.
We have just a day to go before the end of the month and still don’t have a keeper. Andez sorry but this is an object of ambition.
You tell Henry, sorry son I could not sign new goalie to cover Lehmann and we get beaten the first 2 games. I hope not but here is where I don’t understand what is going on.
August 30th, 2005 at 12:27 pm
1. in cases of Upson vs Cygan. Stuart Taylor vs Almunia, both english players were given extended runs in the team but both got injured for extended periods at vital times in their careers. Eventually both were sold as they wanted first team football and replaced were more experienced players content to be squad players.
As for preferring english players here is a non-exhaustive list of foreign youth that hasn’t made it under AW: Malz, Muntasser, Volz, Juan, Paulinho, Karbassiyon, Simek, Manninger. In fact under AW - one english youth player has made it, Cole vs 3 foreign youth Anelka, Fabregas, Clichy.
One may have regrets about Upson, but Pennant did not show the proper professionalism expected of AFC players, and Bentley does not (understandably) want to sit on the bench.
August 30th, 2005 at 12:30 pm
Arsene’s one of the world’s best managers… NO DOUBT.
1) I have said many times, could not possibly care LESS what nationality a player is. I want the BEST MAN for the job. No quotas, thank you.
2) I think he does play his best players, as long as he can. We don’t really have the players to rotate enough. We are weak in depth. Have been for a few years. Will have to see what happens this season, if the same patterns emerge. I can understand playing your best, when the back-ups can’t compete at world-class level. Sometimes, they are forced into the position, and they emerge! Like Senderos. Its a catch-22.
3) I don’t believe Wenger has much say in either contract negotiations OR spending money. Thats MY belief. I think he is hand-cuffed in that respect.
4) He has done pretty damned well in my estimation on defenders. See the above comments in his defense. All legitimate points.
He is a fantastic manager. I don’t know if he is being told he can’t spend, or if we have financial issues, or if he is just stubborn?
I have said this before, I hope he makes an idiot of ALL his detractors and we succeed this year with what we have. I just don’t see it.
Again, MAKE ME LOOK STUPID Arsene, please!
August 30th, 2005 at 12:31 pm
Wicked Tony. I like that..
OK if I were coach Van Persie and Reyes would of started and every practice from now on would have Henry doing nothing but headers while Pires played Rugby!
PEACE!
August 30th, 2005 at 12:32 pm
Well said,clearly never been near the Marble Halls.Look at Wenger’s record.Thease people call into question the judgement of a genius and then vanish when he proves them wrong.I would say get behind your club but I would rather he commented on baseball as he is clearly picking up his opinions from an equally blinkered British press.
August 30th, 2005 at 12:33 pm
Thats my point too Love G.
Are we cash strapped or just plain stubborn.
If your scenario happened, Henry would be out of here. It just makes no sense.
August 30th, 2005 at 12:34 pm
There won’t be quotas for nationalities. The aim of UEFA’s new quota system is to ensure big clubs produce some young players of their own, something which Wenger is obviously worlds ahead of almost all other managers.
August 30th, 2005 at 12:41 pm
How is it we all have time to constantly whinge about the some old junk ad nauseum? I’m a student done work for the summer and waiting for uni to resume, what’s your excuse?
August 30th, 2005 at 12:47 pm
I take your points on board but don’t agree with you on your last comment
” but Pennant did not show the proper professionalism expected of AFC players, and Bentley does not (understandably) want to sit on the bench “
It depends on how you define professionalism - Remember our favourite son and captain “Mr Arsenal”. Tony did some time at HMP’s came back strong as a captain. Palour is another example and the list goes on.
The problem with Pennant is very complicated and lot of folks would have said the same about Tony 10 ys ago. You any man management with some folks and that is all walks of life not just footballers.
At the end of the day I say Pennant is 100% better than Reyes. Reyes is playing because of his price tag and Reyes have about 20 chances to prove himself, Pennant have about 3 as a sub. I have watched both guys and as someone said it Reyes was playing for B’ham we would have seen how good Pennant is.
August 30th, 2005 at 12:48 pm
I’m undermining the fan’s confidence? That’s hilarious. Only you can undermine your own confidence, if you don’t agree then don’t agree.
I’m just pointing out that Wenger is relying on his kids to step up to the first team and do the business, but the facts show he doesn’t believe in them, because either they’re all leaving or not being played.
There are still question marks over Van Persie, Reyes, Senderos, Flamini.
As I have said consistently, I ‘d like to see what happens over the next month or so before making a firm conclusion. But at the moment, it’s looking crooked.
August 30th, 2005 at 12:54 pm
No its not looking crooked. It takes a little time to iron out kinks that develop within a team and thats a natural occurence. Who better to take care of that than Arsene Wenger?
August 30th, 2005 at 12:55 pm
Well Stag,
As you said I hope Arsenal and Wenger proves me wrong this season. Let wait and see. We are not cash strapped just hoping things work and save some money.
If that scenario happens you will hear all sort of excuses and to be honest Henry will be out of the door.
August 30th, 2005 at 12:59 pm
I know right!! Like I said before he thinks that any opinion contrary to his own is devoid of facts because for some reason he is the only one in posession of the facts?
What is this all about? where does one get an attitude and an ego like that?
August 30th, 2005 at 1:01 pm
You forget:
Wright
Manninger
Silvinho
Van Bronckhorst
Luznhy
Vivas
Upson
Stepanovs
Garde
Grondin
Grimandi
None of them were very good at defending in my book.
August 30th, 2005 at 1:04 pm
I don’t disagree. What I’m saying is that on this occasion I believe he’s fucked up, but I want to see another 4 or 5 games before coming to a firm conclusion.
Nothing to lose the plot over my friend.
August 30th, 2005 at 1:05 pm
I’m with you Curtisimo. Right now though besides Brady7, I dont really know of anyone who lives in the affected areas. Are you in Gainesville or Jacksonville?
August 30th, 2005 at 1:34 pm
are u blind and/or stupid?
August 30th, 2005 at 1:35 pm
Just bore and nothing to do today.
my 2 cents
August 30th, 2005 at 1:39 pm
“I’m just pointing out that Wenger is relying on his kids to step up to the first team and do the business, but the facts show he doesn’t believe in them, because either they’re all leaving or not being played.”
Thanks for the laugh….again look at the number of players under 25 that play regularly for Arsenal..
Cole, Toure, Flamini, Fabregas, Van Persie, Hleb, and Senderos. And, i’m not even counting squad players like clichy that step in when the first team players go down. You conveniently omit these factual realities, which is increasingly leading me to believe that you are just here to provoke and may likely support another club.
August 30th, 2005 at 1:59 pm
As far as he doesn’t like British players that’s an unfair assessment. When I heard Pennant say that I thought “What a Loser”. In all honesty I felt bad for Pennant. He went to Leeds in a year when Ljunberg was injured a lot and he would have gotten plenty of playtime that year. Of course last year he was here and Ljunberg was healthy or when Freddie was injured, so was Pennant; or in jail. Upson would have gotten his chance if he had waited one half of a season. He left in the winter break right before Tony Adams retired. I believe that if he would have stayed we would have no idea how good Toure is in the back. The bottom line is these guys couldn’t wait and now they are playing for a team that is not doing that well. All of the good young English players are very expensive because of the media and it’s cheaper to get good foreing players. If they don’t work out we don’t lose too much (Jeffers). Bentley is simply not good enough to break into the first team and must either wait and develop or leave. The first time I saw van Persie play was in ‘02 when Feynoord won the UEFA cup and he looked very much an Arsenal player the entire time coming off the bench. He was a starter when he came to Arsenal fullying knowing he would start on the bench. He developed and waited his time and it’s plain to see he’s “The New Dutchmaster”. Yeah, I said it. Mark my words.
Wenger will play his best players if they are fit. I believe that anyone who is in the squad is good enough. It is required if you want to be a good team to have depth. We had depth in the unbeaten season. Wenger has let people go who have asked to leave out of kindness. It has been a hinderance. We could have used Parlour and Wiltord last season. But I have never heard Wenger say one bad thing about any player; current or former. He plays the team that will give him the best chance to win every game.
I agree with most as far as contracts go. Wenger has little to do with it. I believe he could but chooses to stay away from that. I believe that the Vieira sale was in the best intrest of Vieira. He got a great deal for four or 5 years and a 5 grand per week pay raise. He wouldn’t have gotten that at Arsenal.
Wenger’s eye for attacking players is an understatement. He’s a scary good judge of talent. Everyone he brings in won’t be a superstar but some will. Cygan is not a bad player. He’s just not as quick or pacy as Sol. He’s the best passer of the bunch, and nobody’s knocking him around. I still have a game on tape when Arsenal played Leeds and he kicked Lee Bowyer in the throat (hilarious). He’s letting the youth come up in the back.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:11 pm
Kids are up to 25 now are they? Well done for moving the ball park. I don’t count Cole, Toure, of Hleb as kids anymore. Nor Reyes; nobody pays ?15m for a prospect.
Now go back to grazing in your field with all the other dozy fanatic sheep who believe that Wenger is the creator of the entire universe no doubt.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:26 pm
I evacuated/moved to Jacksonville this past saturday morning. I was supposed to have moved this coming thursday/friday but with the late, late western track that Katrina took, saturday morning I packed whatever I could into a van & evacuated/moved that day. I still have stuff in New Orleans but my house was on a 2nd floor so most of the stuff, outside of wind damage or rain damage from a roof tear/damage should be ok but again, that’s not definite.
I’m currently in Jacksonville & will be living with friends for the near future. I’ll be commuting to Gainesville from Jacsonville for an indefinite amount of time. My mom will be forced to live with relatives in Lake Charles for at least a week as New Orleans & Jefferson Parish officials have declared martial law in the New Orleans metro area & will not allow anyone other than emergency personnel to enter the city for at least 7 days. Besides most of New Orleans streets & especially the interstate are still under water & reports are that the water is still rising in the city itself, probably caused by the levee breaches around the city. New Orleans will never be the same, I can guarantee that. Damage assessment & casualty numbers are only speculative at best right now but assuredly will go up. TRUE catastrophe, my friend.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:50 pm
Wow, I didnt know you were from New Orleans. I myself am in New Jersey and will be here for a little while so thankfully I missed whatever it was that happened in my region of Winter Park/Central Florida.
Well take care and I hope things dont get any worse for you than they already are.
August 30th, 2005 at 3:56 pm
Nice incitefull post man. I totally agree that its ludicrous for anyone with any knowledge of football whatsoever to question Wenger’s ability in the transfer market. Anyone who does so is obviously trying to be provocative or is hung up on the ocassional signings that did not work out. Every manager has signings that do not perform but if people look at the Arsenal picture objectively than they would realize that Wenger’s performance in the transfer market has been fantastic and way ahead of any other premiership manager.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:04 pm
WHATTT!!!!!!
You mean to tell me that you actually have the nerve to put SILVINHO in the above list??
That has to be the craziest assertion I have ever heard from anyone about an Arsenal player.
Silvinho was OFF THE CHARTS!!!!
Easily the best most capable left-back Arsenal have ever had. Even though I admit that Ashley Cole is world class, Silvinho puts Cole in the shade.
Now I know for a fact that you are not really an Arsenal fan, you probably support Chelsea and are here to get people infuriated. I would even expect a Chelsea fan to show an absolute TITAN of a player like SILVINHO the respect he deserves.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:05 pm
He is both. To top it off I have good reason to believe that he is not even an Arsenal fan.
August 30th, 2005 at 4:20 pm
To any Gooners watching this space who may have been put out from this horrible tragedy, my thoughts are with you.
August 30th, 2005 at 6:00 pm
WAS from New Orleans… don’t think I’ll make it back for awhile now even if I could go back.
Thanks for the thoughts, I’m one of the “lucky” ones. Some neighborhoods in New orleans will probably have dozens if not hundreds dead.
August 30th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
Thanks for the thoughts, I’m one of the “lucky” ones. Some neighborhoods in New Orleans will probably have dozens if not hundreds dead.
Also, Southern Mississippi just an hour east of New Orleans already has an estimated 80 people dead with those totals expected to possibly reach into the hundreds when all is said & done too.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:12 pm
1. I think most would agree that Wenger is too intelligent a person to discriminate against certain players because of their nationality. The only restriction he might have is the high asking prices clubs are demanding for English players. Who knows, he may have bought Jenas this summer for 5 million, but not ten.
2. In top flight football when you have Premiership, FA Cup, and CL titles and money on the line you play the best squad you have EVERY GAME. Arsene has designated the Carling Cup as the stage for youngsters to gain experience. Also, necessity will provide opportunity as it did with Fabregas and Senderos. It may cause some players to leave (Edu), but that is life at a competitive club.
3. Wenger lets players leave on frees or for less money because he is not one to hold up a player?s career for financial reasons. If there is no place for them in his squad he will let them go. It is another facet of he and the club that separates them from every other club. He will resign Gilberto.
4. As for the defense, (2nd, 1st & 3rd in terms of goals allowed in the League the last three years) Wenger hasn?t purchases any defenders because he has the defenders he wants. He feels that Cole and Lauren?s attacking style of play fit into his system, and we can probably guess that he has not found a central defender better than Campbell and/or Toure (hard to do) available for a rational price. In regards to your statement that Lehman isn?t good, he is the number two goalkeeper for Germany behind a player that many regard as the best in the world, and two years ago he was the goalkeeper for the number one defense in the league (along with Lauren, Toure, Campbell, and Cole) on a team that went undefeated. I will agree with you that Almunia still has much to prove. Cygan, must prove himself this year also, but his last game was a good start.
With respect to the players that we?ve let go, many were/are/will be solid Premiership players, but none was/is/will be strong enough to help this team stay on top of Manure and Chelsea or to help us progress to the later stages of the CL. We are not looking to compete on par with Blackburn here. We need players who can raise the standard.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:31 pm
Here we go yet again. Are you really that thick that you have no self control?
I will tell you this once more, because you’re tiny brain obviously needs several kick starts to take this in.
ARSENAL AMERICA IS AN ARSENAL WEBSITE FOR THE SHARING OF DEMOCRATIC OPINIIONS.
MY OPINIONS ARE MY OPINIONS, NOT YOUR OPINIONS.
IF YOU DON’T LIKE MY OPINIONS YOU HAVE 3 CHOICES:
A) DON’T READ THEM
B) DON’T REPLY TO THEM
C) **AYE CARUMBA**(censored) OFF ELSEWHERE
You sit on your fat Florida arse, probably never having been to a single Arsenal game in your entire life, and you accuse a born and bred Londoner who has been to well over 200 Arsenal games that his is not a real supporter.
I think we can all figure out who the real supporter is, your the plastic one, not me.
August 30th, 2005 at 7:37 pm
I agree that several of the names there never panned out (which is why they are gone). However, Barcelona - held up to be one of the world’s best - seem to like both Van Bronckhorst and Silvinho. And Grimandi was a decent role player who helped the team win the Double. He always provided exactly what was asked of him. Nothing more, nothing less.
August 30th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
MESSAGE TO DANNYT
IF YOU CLAIM TO BE AN ARSENAL FAN THEN F**KING ACT LIKE ONE, AND STOP TRASHING THE TEAM YOU SEDITIOUS TRAITOR. YOU HAVE SOME F**KING NERVE COMING AT ME LIKE THAT. I AM SICK OF THE REPULSIVE BILE THAT YOU SPOUT FROM YOUR BLUE SCUM LOVING ARSSE.
August 30th, 2005 at 9:37 pm
But you just did.
August 30th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
That was well out of order. It’s not as if what Danny says is anything to get riled about. He’s not spouting out anything racist, sexist, or whatever. And why do so many Americans feel the need to label anyone with a dissenting opinion a “traitor”? I’m not surprised at all that you are from a state that elected George Dubya Bush (twice!). If you don’t like it, sod off to Spurs.
August 30th, 2005 at 10:07 pm
Well said USGUNNER,
I am sure that if it was feasible than Wenger would add Englishmen to the squad, and the charge that he discriminates against English players is patently ridiculous. I noticed that you mentioned Jermaine Jenas and that reminded of the cheek of Graeme Sounnes for having the nerve to qoute his transfer price at 20 million pounds. However that just goes to show the ridiculous valuations that clubs put on local players as opposed to foreign ones.
The fact that some of the Arsenal players like Edu and Sylvain Wiltord left on free transfers is not a fault that can in any way be laid at Wenger’s doorstep. Edu left on a free because he decided he would run down his contract in a bid to try and force Arsenl’s hand. The fact that we refused to play that game is a sign of adroitness on Arsenal’s part. In the end Edu choose to stab in the back the very club that had made hime a star.
August 30th, 2005 at 10:17 pm
Before you jump on me why dont you scroll above and check out his statement for yourself. I am reffering to the 2nd main post above and the statement in question is DannyT’s last response in that discussion. For your ease I have cut and pasted a copy of that here
These are his (DannyT’s) words:
Here we go yet again. Are you really that thick that you have no self control?
I will tell you this once more, because you’re tiny brain obviously needs several kick starts to take this in.
“{ARSENAL AMERICA IS AN ARSENAL WEBSITE FOR THE SHARING OF DEMOCRATIC OPINIIONS.
MY OPINIONS ARE MY OPINIONS, NOT YOUR OPINIONS.
IF YOU DON’T LIKE MY OPINIONS YOU HAVE 3 CHOICES:
A) DON’T READ THEM
B) DON’T REPLY TO THEM
C) **AYE CARUMBA**(censored) OFF ELSEWHERE
You sit on your fat Florida arse, probably never having been to a single Arsenal game in your entire life, and you accuse a born and bred Londoner who has been to well over 200 Arsenal games that his is not a real supporter.
I think we can all figure out who the real supporter is, your the plastic one, not me.}” End Qoute.
Before you come flying at me why dont you actually take the trouble to find out what is being said and not said.
Now you sod your own arsse off to Spurs.
August 30th, 2005 at 10:26 pm
You disagree with his comments all the time, but rather than debate logically, you respond with ad hominem attacks. What you are doing right now is entrapment; you goad him into firing back at you, and then you claim he started it. It won’t fly. You are the plastic. Feckin hell I’m always shocked by the lack of respect the Septics around here show to the Highbury regulars. That’s most likely why Miranda left. I might not always agree with Danny, but you know what? I at least recognize that he’s entitled to his say on the Arsenal. 200 games gives him that right. And by the way, if I were switch to Spurs, at least I’d know where to find White Hart Lane on a map.
August 30th, 2005 at 10:46 pm
MESSAGE TO CLARKEY
What the F*ck does that mean “You know where to find White Hart Lane on a map” of course you do Clarkey for thats your natural home.
What are you trying to tell me?? that you are good at reading maps you f**king hump!!!
I remember very well back a few months ago when your erstwhile friend supposedly hijacked your identity and was posing as a Chelsea fan. He, like you also had an uncanny soft spot for DannyT and all the other traitors on this site that create a stench in the nostrils for all the REAL AND TRUE Arsenal fans. I am now convinced that the whole thing was a neat little fib that you cooked up and “both” the so called individuals have been you all long. The manner of your reponse in an arguement which had nothing to do with you has just confirmed that fact.
Supposedly attending 200 or 200, 000 games for for that matter gives a TRAITOR like DannyT the right to F**KALL in my book.
August 30th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
I guess this hurricane and the fact that you are moving probably explains why you hardly come around here anymore. Anyway again best of luck and hope to see another one of your excellent posts soon.
August 30th, 2005 at 10:55 pm
You are deluded, you really are. I bet you really believe Dubya won that election too, eh?
August 30th, 2005 at 10:58 pm
Whatever you are trying to get at with Dubya (a subject that has nothing to do with this discussion) points only further to your duplicity.
Nice try!!!
August 30th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
What I am doing is questioning the American tendency to lash out at dissenters, however mild the objections may be.
August 30th, 2005 at 11:25 pm
Bla bla bla …
All of who thinks that is smarter than AW and can win the CL go ahead and apply for his position, send your resume you might be the most appreciated signing by the club.
I am not saying he is god, but he is the best around. I’d rather have him rather than having Jose or Alex Fergy. When its time for him to go, he will leave … I am guessing 3-5 years from now. But I would like to see a true Arsenal smart minded ….
I am not against the english football, but the english futball is still behind the alike of Brazil, Italy, Holland, ( the list can go on).
If you cant find a better keepr than David James, how can u consider England is a big favours for the WC. Owen played 1/8 of the games with Real and still plays for england NT. If you need to have english players with top quality their prices should go down and they should accept competetion. Owen is great, but he was spoilt in liverpool, he played every single game even if he was to slap the manager.
Teams like Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, should have more english players that accpet to compete with the top player like : Henry, Ronaldo, Robben, Drogba, Freddy, RVN … Rooney eanred his place, A Cole earned his place, Terry and Lampard eanred their places. … Otherwise we can be like Villa or Blackburn, get any english player that worhes 1-5 mill, play them and be happy with mid table position. Once Rafa took liverpool, and liverpool is doing much better… no more spoilt Owen, but international player who earned their position to the CL.
Sven would keep Owen as his first choice no matter what, he keeps James in the english team no matter what …why are they best over there. While Marco Van Basten states it clear that if player does not shine and play first team football there would be no place for him .. Davids had to leave Inter for this, Kluivert too …They are all hoping to get their place back.
The defeat against Denmark is an indicator for this.
English players that desveres to play in Arsenal should desereve to be in the 22 selection for England. … I guess Lehman is way better than D James so I am ok with him.
We tried SWP but too expensive, Jenes does not worth 10 mi. … Bently should be pateint and should try harder in Arsenal if he needs to become an english real star. He should prove himself in the resereves team, and then he can find a place in the first 11.
August 30th, 2005 at 11:32 pm
I just realized something Clarkey. I just remembered that you are Canadian. Now a lot of things make sense. The most important thing about the fact that you are a Canadian is that it explains why carry on as if you have a chip on your shoulder. No wonder you prattle on about b*llshit about Dubya and Florida and so on.
Facing an identity crisis are we???
August 30th, 2005 at 11:35 pm
This is Arsenal AMERICA.
By all means give us your opinions.
Not exactly the right place to be American bashing.
The arrow slinging and mud-throwing and name calling CAN and SHOULD be done via the PM (personal message mode).
The rest of us don’t want to be involved or see it when it gets to a personal level. Regardless of who is right/wrong or who started/finished it.
August 30th, 2005 at 11:45 pm
You’re the one demanding everyone conform to your idea of what an Arsenal supporter ought to speak and think like. Aren’t you the one with the identity crisis?
Look, the ironic thing is that I agree with your assessment of Danny’s comments - that they are generally wrong. But come on, can we not just let one another speak without resorting to personal attacks and questioning of loyalties?
I think one of the major problems with this site right now is we’ve become incredibly bogged down in rubbish topics. How many threads in a row now has it been, discussing what is “right” and what is “wrong” with the most minute details of how Arsenal plays football? We never seem to discuss some of the more pertinent developments in football today, such as ticket prices (my pet crusade), an increasing demand to bring back terraces, the real nature of the Champions League (”best of the best tournament, or overrated cup?”), hell even a sort of ‘Where Are They Now?’ feature tracking the careers of former Arsenal stars like Tony Adams and Ray Parlour. We have been a fairly unimaginative lot as of late.
I shouldn’t have resorted to what I hate most (personal attacks) by saying what I did, and for that I apologize.
August 30th, 2005 at 11:49 pm
hey,
a bit off-topic here, I would like to introduce my new arsenal blog @ http://www.arsenal-roxs.blogspot.com. Please feel free to browse through yah.
webmaster, could you please add me to your weblinks. Tks
Kunyao
August 31st, 2005 at 1:34 am
TRUE..TRUE ….TRUE
but lets remember something…
some players will get to play week in week out, while others will b on the bench..
english players dont like being on the bench…
cygan almunia do…
established english players are expensive(crouch)
this is a wonderful topic but i dont think am in the mood to bash in God’s first born
lets give im time
August 31st, 2005 at 4:17 am
Cheers DannyT, I was just dealing with the players mentioned in the orignal article, if not we’ll have to evaluate Wenger’s signing record based on Christophe Wreh!
August 31st, 2005 at 4:17 am
ur doin exactly the same thing by this post….unless ofcourse u actually know florida gunner ur just assuming stff abt him…else ur proving urself to be thick and nothing else. i agree ur free to have ur opinions and even to publish them…by the same logic we r free to pick holes in ur statements (and belive me there r plenty, u never back up what u say with facts…plz read this entire thread again..and maybe u will realize tht u have changed tack and arguments thrice!). I REPEAT once again … VanP, Cesc Senderos and flamini (since u ask us to exclude reyes (who is 21 btw and we paid 9 mill for him) cole and toure) are all pretty much first teamers now and are youngsters. and ur saying tht wenger is wrong coz he isnt playing the kids enough. so let me get this straight you wud rather have lupoli, quincy, bentley, larsson, song, abieye in place of henry, freddie, pires , gilberto ….wud tht make it alrite with u? but then ofcourse we wud lose plenty of games and tht wud give u something more to whine abt i guess!
August 31st, 2005 at 4:30 am
Andez, i agree totally! if upson and pennant are so good why are they at birmingham and not at a bigger club, taylor is sitting on the bench at villa.
ryan garry,21, 1.9m is the reason wenger is not gonna buy a centre half. if it was not for injuries last season we would all have known about this guy. and best of all he is english!
August 31st, 2005 at 6:45 am
I know exactly what I’m saying, it’s just that you’re not thinking too hard, or you’re too wrapped up in the floridagunner hate vibe to see straight.
When Wenger says he’s talking about kids, i don’t count Cole, Hleb, Toure - they are not “kids”. Reyes may be young, but we paid an awful lot of money for him , so we should have certain expectations of him by now.
Wenger is asking us to trust him, telling us he will play the young players and doesn’t need to buy anyone. I am questioning his statement, because apart from the players I have just mentioned, other “kids”, Senderos, Van Persie, Flamini etc. are not consistently showing that they are capable of winning Arsenal anything.
Fabregas is the only young player who seems likely to be a nailed on success, and even then maybe it is too early for him to play 50+ games successfully in Vieira’s shoes.
As for the other “kids”, as I pointed out earlier, all of them have been sold, farmed out on loan, or have little to no chance of getting in the team.
But as I have said 500 times, I would like to see how things pan out over the next month or so before I come to a firm conclusion. Wenger has got it right before and may do again.
So what don’t you understand about that?
August 31st, 2005 at 6:48 am
Just ignore him Clarkey, like I will from now on. He’s clearly a nutter.
August 31st, 2005 at 8:58 am
A few months ago I made a post about DannyT that provided a gruesome insight into the mind of this traitor.
In order to refresh the minds of those who had read the post and to inform those who had not I have decided to do a repost out of a sense of public service.
Here is an important link:
http://www.costumecraze.com/GRES02.html
Again to elaborate, DannyT is a man who spends his time obsessing over and imitating the John Travolta charachter (Danny of the T-birds) from the movie Grease.
He thinks that he is some kind of
“GREASED LIGHTNING”
Some qoutes:
WATCH THE GREASE LIGHTNING!!!!
Sandy!!!!
Danny!!!!
Thats my name dont wear it out!!!!
This should provide my fellow Arsenal Americans an insight into the disturbed psychotic mind of DannyT.
August 31st, 2005 at 9:35 am
You’re right. There’s not even a response when I for my part try to bury the hatchet.
If you know a better Arsenal forum send it to me in a private memo, I’ll join you there.
August 31st, 2005 at 9:39 am
This is ostensibly a virtual reality club for Arsenal supporters in both America and Canada. You lot opened the door when you were talking about the ongoing election, mostly how you wanted Kerry to win. Now it’s not ok for someone to “bash” George Bush? Or is it just because that someone is a foreigner?
August 31st, 2005 at 9:52 am
Wenger doesn’t do contract or transfer negotiations.
Dein does.
So lay that one to rest straight away.
The rest is bollocks anyway. You say he can’t pick a defender but look at Senderos.
If he had Moronho’s budget he’d buy the best, but we aren’t in the market for ?24 million players worth ?10m and I’m glad we aren’t.
Cheers,
Desert Gooner
August 31st, 2005 at 9:54 am
If you want to bury the hatchet with me than thats fine, but please dont blame me for the lack of a response. You buried the hatchet with me once before and yesterday you came at me in an arguement that had not involved you. So pardon me if I dont fall over myself in order to make the peace.
August 31st, 2005 at 10:04 am
I think he was referring to the fact that you were trashing America and Americans in general rather than your cricism of Bush.
August 31st, 2005 at 10:27 am
Don’t care about Bush/Kerry or whatever political motivations you see fit.
You are on Arsenal AMERICA, you bashed AMERICANS. Its great that we have people from all over the world on this site, but its US & Canadian supporters Club. Why would you say anything anti-American on this site. Your repsonse to it WILL be and SHOULD be loud.
Its not necessary.
August 31st, 2005 at 10:29 am
you are 100% correct in what I was referring to.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:07 am
I aint going anywhere, and neither should you. I like Arsenal America, it’s a good platform for posting opinions and most people are respectful and insightful. I like a lot of the American posters too, it’s good to get another perspective.
Of course, there is always going to be one lunatic - especially from a country as f*cked up as that one. He has been warned before, but I will no longer be biting back. In fact, I think I will enjoy ignoring him.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:12 am
Silvinho couldn’t defend to save his life, great going forward though. Van Bronckhorst has done well at Barcelona, but he’s still a terrible left back - and was woeful in that position for Arsenal.
Grimandi was carried by the players around him. I suppose you need a few spoilers like that, but he’s was one of Wenger’s oddball buys, let’s face it, like Cygan, no big club in Europe would have ever touched him.
August 31st, 2005 at 8:20 pm
I’m not sure I can agree with the statement that Van Bronckhorst “has done well at Barcelona [at left back], but he’s still a terrible left back.” I think he is a good player that has earned his spot in a very good team. You are probably right regarding Silvinho. However, he can pick daisies at the back for all I care, so long as he continues to score those amazing goals. As for Wenger, I think he was adept at recognizing their talent. Unfortunately, he wasn’t able to fit them into the squad.
With regards to Grimandi and Cygan, I don’t agree that the measure of a player’s ability or contribution is whether or not another big club would sign them. Every club needs role players. That was Grimandi’s job. He filled in when someone went down, or came on to shake things up when a game was getting stale. He had value for us regardless of whether or not he would have value for someone else. As for Cygan, he was Player of the Year in France before he left and cost the club around 2 million (if I remember correctly). At the time the cost probably looked to be worth the potential reward. Of course, he stumbled a bit in the beginning, but I don’t feel that he is as hopeless as many on this site do. He put in some servicable performances last season, and he came on last week to play a big part in earning the victory. Hopefully, he will do more of the same throughout the year. Would he fit in at Chelsea? Who cares?
August 31st, 2005 at 9:48 pm
I agree that Grimandi was an important role player for us and though in hindsight its easy to dismiss his contributions he played well in some important games for us especially in Europe and I liked him.
Still think though that Silvinho was the best left bac ever in Arsenal’s history.
September 1st, 2005 at 1:26 am
Enough rubbish…yu are not an Arsenal supporter. Tou have had a nice run here, but enough is enough. Not counting a 23 or 24 year old a kid…you expect him to field an under 21 team?
I can’t believe they allow you to post feature articles on a so-called Arsenal sie…as for “free speech”, just as you have a right to postthe crp you do, e have the right to publically ridicuke you.
You have the option to:
1. Post on yone of your own club’s sites
2. Learn something about the game
3. Take it lik man
4. Whine like a like a child
September 1st, 2005 at 6:27 am
Hi floridagunner. What’s wrong, no-one listening so you thought you’d use another username?