Several recent posts have defended Wenger by stating that he’s been successful in developing players AND winning trophies as long as he’s been here, so let’s have faith and stay the course. For the most part, I’m in that camp.
However, I wonder if that philosophy is still viable in the ‘new Premiership’. Chelsea are not just spending money, they are spending crazy money. Plus they have a good manager. Man United continue to spend and have a good manager. Liverpool and spending and have a good manager. Spurs are spending and have a good manager. With the exception of Man U, none of the above was the case even as recently as two years ago.
Good managers plus spending equals good team. Arsenal have a good manager and a good team and spend a decent amount of money to be fair. But Chelsea have caught us. Liverpool and Spurs (yes Spurs) are getting closer.
I don’t think business as usual is going to get it done. Does that mean I think Arsenal should overpay for Shaun Wright-Phillips or Jermaine Jenas (who just went to Spurs)? No, but I don’t think youngsters or hidden gems are the only answer any more.
I do think that one, just one, solid veteran player can make a difference. Call it the Kirk Gibson factor. In 1988 the LA Dodgers had a good team, but they weren’t favorites to win the World Series. They brought in Kirk Gibson, a tough as nails, veteran-leader type who four years earlier had won a Championship. Kirk came in and from pre-season training set the tone. He had won the big prize and knew what it took. The Dodgers got to the World Series (thanks to pitcher Orel Hershiser - their Thierry Henry). In the World Series Gibson had one, ONE!, at bat. It is one of the most memorable in baseball history and is credited with pushing the Dodgers to the title.
That’s what I think Arsenal could use. Just one guy, a 28-year old German/Italian defender maybe. People smarter than me know who’s out there. But one guy can make a difference as is worth the price.
92 Responses to “Wenger and the Modern Premiership”
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August 31st, 2005 at 8:32 am
A question for ArseAm fans:-
What is the average age and IQ of the kids here. I always read this site each morning to hear what the fans are talking about but what I notice yesterday was sad. Kids trying to out gun each other. And where are all the old guys?
What happen to respect for one another as a Gunner. If this site was run by United or Spurs I would have understand some of the hype.
August 31st, 2005 at 9:23 am
Don’t suppose you would settle for a 32 year old Estonian?
Here’s what I don’t get about this loan/signing/favor/card game settlement: he’s supposedly cover for Lehmann, yet he’s injured and won’t be fit for the mighty Thun. That means Almunia will be covering, with Poom as our #2 when he’s healthy?
Are we Poomed?
August 31st, 2005 at 9:26 am
That’s really what the trophy selection process was supposed to determine, Barnet. At the moment, it appears we’re running a solid 81. ;^P
Not to worry. It generally climbs higher after a big signing.
Oh.
August 31st, 2005 at 9:27 am
I don’t think we will be Poomed? We have 6 hours to go.
So how how you Mr Scotty? Are you coming down to watch the Ashes? I know England will win something this year.
August 31st, 2005 at 9:38 am
Me 2005 with an IQ of Zero. Lol.
You right, This site is losing some of the good folks and folks. 2 yrs ago at everyone at work used to check AA in the morning even our Spurs/United friends but now we have some few folks who logged to diss people with out any facts or points.
But hey you should no the wise ones among the group. I don’t reply to some folks. Not worth it or my time.
August 31st, 2005 at 9:41 am
Well said Rick,
I?ve been saying the same thing about modern football or beautiful game and players. We have to get back to reality with the new premiership and do what we have to do instead of bit$hing about Chelsea. Chelsea has the money and there is nothing anyone can do about it and as you said Liverpool and Spurs are even catching up.
Sooner or later we will have to buy or overpay for players and that is the new reality. No player is worth more than 10M but that sad fact is with supply and demand and the world we lived in today these things happen. And no club or agent is going to say Oh!!!! this is Arsenal so let reduce the price or be nice to them.
As someone who was against our youth policy 2/4 seasons ago about the amount of turnover i.e. going on loans without coming back or 2 good games and never to be seen again, I now think we are giving these kids some playing time but too many kids will spoil the party. Kids don?t win you titles but experience. People talk about Ajax but have had some old heads to help those kids. Even if you look at our 1998/2000 wining teams we have a few kids with some help from the old heads.
Arsenal have to spend some money to bring in at least 2 players with a good track or players like Henry will leave.
August 31st, 2005 at 9:42 am
Rick, if compare to Man U, we probably spent even more the past summer - Hleb for 10 mil. Man U got two - van der sar and Park, probably with less than 10 mils.
i firmly believe those footballing ppl who know what they are doing. Just like when we first bought Henry, ppl were wondering, why the hack we were buying a left winger when we already had marc overmars, and when what we needed was a striker?… Or when Alex Ferguson got rid of his backbone players Ince, Hughes, Kancheski during the mid 90s, and started to play kids… Or when GG got rid of half of his first team XI when he first in charge, and decided to play kids… Or when GG sold the popular John Lukic after he helped us to win the championship for 18 years, and replaced it with David Seaman…
Nobody had an answer for the aforementioned managers’ decision back then. Of course, now everybody know what they were doing at that time.
So that’s why it’s important for us to have faith on our manager’s decision.
In short, if when a manager made a decision, everybody can understand where he’s coming from, or probably would make a same decision had they been the manager themselves, then how SPEICAL this manager is? We might as well apply for the job ourselves!
August 31st, 2005 at 9:46 am
Rick,
I tend to agree with you…this prime Italian/German/SouthAmerican defensive midfielder with a flair for attack at the right time is what we lack right now….wait…that sounds like Patrick Vieira. Of course, this sounds like we need a replacement for him and yes we do…..
Under the Wenger system the position of PV4 and the duo of center backs are our spine and we are physically weak and unbalanced right now….Cesc and Flamini are talented but not physically imposing, which is what we need to get the ball back and feed it forward. Have you noticed that now TH14 has to come back to near the center circle to get the ball??? This is total waste of use of his talent because now he can no longer expose the space behind the defenders (since when he gets the ball there are 7 or 8 guys in defense). And this has drastically reduced his effectiveness
If I were Wenger (which I won’t even dare as I have so much respect for him), I would put Kolo in midfield with Silva when Sol comes back in a week or two (paired with Senderos). Kolo is athletic, can run, can defend, can attack, and knows our system well.
I would also get Babel from Ajax next summer to replace the aging and ineffective Pires.
Just some thoughts….
Go Gunners, we love you….
August 31st, 2005 at 10:08 am
Rick… what you said… is all I am saying…
Somehow, we liked Jenas, but the 20 mill they mentioned was way too high according to Wenger. Yet he just got sold to the Totts for 8 Mill.
We are standing around doing NOTHING, while other teams are getting better.
There are still a few hours to go here, but it appears we might bring in a 3rd string keeper and off goes Hoyte, who has played a variety of positons and looked decent. Thats called DEPTH.
Whatever.
Can’t control it, but there is something wrong over there at the Arsenal…
August 31st, 2005 at 10:29 am
To be honest, I spent 3 hours one day familiarizing myself with cricket rules and protocol and such. As a lover of sport of all kinds, I wanted to once and for all figure out what was going on since I see highlights on Sky all the time and the Ashes were capturing a lot of hype as England haven’t beaten the Aussies in 15 years or something. I’m trying to follow as best I can, and getting better as I go.
I’m still dodgy on the scoring. I know how to score a run, what a “ball” is and the various ways to get out and run out and so forth, but I’m confused a little by the comparison to “overs” and how you can reach a score with “overs to spare”. Getting there, though.
So you can say I’ve gone from seeing a game where they hit croquet ball with table legs, to paying attention to the many interesting facets of the game.
Still more interesting than watching Chelsea, in my opinion.
;^)
August 31st, 2005 at 10:47 am
For some time now the Premiership has been a two-three horse race. Now the rest of the league might be catching up. It would be great if there were great players that haven’t been swooped up by Chelsea and Madrid for us to have. As it is they’ve taken the ones that fit our club. Would a vet help us for the sake of being a vet? Would he be happy to sit, or worse, be let go if it turns out that he wasn’t helping? Could be a lost year for him. If that’s better than what he would have had anyway, what kind of player could he likely be?
More complex than it looks, I think. Doesn’t help that its a World Cup year, either.
As I see it, there are a couple of half-decent talents to improve mediocre squads, but not enough great players to improve our excellent squad. So the Premiership tightens up a bit. Better for the League, perhaps. Our greatest threat has always been our mental state and how we react when it takes 80 minutes to break down 9 men behind the ball. No matter who we have out there, clubs (other than Fulham first time round) will not let us play. Baptista would have helped that. SWP, too, if he was able to get behind defenses with his speed and dribbling skills. They are gone. Midfield could still use some strength, though. Jenas going to the Totts for a few million less seemed like a missed opportunity, but it had much to do with the Owen deal. Again, World Cup fallout and not something we could do much about.
I personally believe we’ve made the moves that we could. I don’t know everything about how things went down and what is said around Wenger’s table, but I have to think they have the clubs best interests in mind. We didn’t get what we wanted, but we’ve managed to maintain a status quo that could have been compromised with a bad purchase. Maybe, as l_G says, we’ll have to pick up one player for twice what he’s worth. Unfortunately, that attitude STILL wouldn’t have gotten us Julio and Shaun. We were out-”gunned” for the smart buys from the very start.
I’m gong with Andez out of default. Faith.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:14 am
Jenas went from 20 Mill, to 15 Mill, to 10… I read 8mill, now I just read 7 Million GBP.
If we wanted this player, and Wenger said he WAS interested but not at the crazy price first mentioned… then why didn’t we get him?
Tottenham Hotspur outbid us for someone Wenger liked and said he was interested in?
Thats RIDICULOUS.
This further cements my belief that the finances at Highbury are really really bad.
We’ve made 1 move to bring in someone (so far) Hleb… he looks pretty good, but I am not yet putting him into the Arsenal Hall of Fame, he hasn’t scored a goal yet.
We have more than a few players depart…
Doesn’t add up to me…
August 31st, 2005 at 11:14 am
I hated cricket all my life now all of a sudden me and the whole England would rather watch that than football. I know a Chelsea fan who watched the cricket while they were playing Wigan, but as you said, watching 10 men standing around scratching their arse is probably more riveting than 11 Ivan Drago’s.
The word “over” means 6 bowls from a respective bowler. So if England won with three overs to spare, it would mean they beat Australia’s run total without needing those additional 18 bowls.
As I said, I always found cricket boring, but the last three matches have been some of the most riveting sport I’ve seen and Newcastle and Man United on Sunday couldn’t compete with it so I didn’t even watch the game.
Its worth watching just to see England batters looking petrified when Shane Warne is getting ready to bowl. Kind of explains why they are taking so many toilet breaks. One guy needed counselling after being bowled out by him time and time again. He is the rebel of cricket, and the establishment still can’t accept that a beer-swigging, pizza-eating, over-weight womaniser is the best cricketer of all time.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:16 am
Jenas may become a quality footballer, but I don’t think he is the leader Rick is talking about. As Arsene has already stated, Baptista was the game changer we wanted. He would have provided an element we are lacking. Unfortunately, he decided to go elsewhere, and it had nothing to do with Arsenal being cheap. Outside of Baptista there really hasn’t been anybody of that caliber available. Ballack is certainly that type of player, but he appears happy at Munich. Who else is out there that we could realistically go after and that could have an impact today?
August 31st, 2005 at 11:20 am
I am with Scotty!
The scoreboard baffles me…
I happened upon “LORDS CRICKET GROUND” many Summers ago while on holiday in London for a while. I went in… watched, tried to pick it up… asked questions… etc…
There were folks napping in the stands! At tea time, they said that we could WALK ON THE FIELD?! I had to ask an usher if I heard that properly. I’d LOVE to walk on the Highbury pitch at half time!!!
I understand alot more… but some aspects still escape me. I DO WANT TO BAT. Having played baseball all my life, I think I can hit a few homers!
August 31st, 2005 at 11:23 am
Again… you are telling me that with the HUNDREDS of footballers in all the leagues around the world, that there is NOBODY that can help the Arsenal Football Club?
Are we that freaking good? “NOBODY” could positively impact our team?
Thats totally untrue.
There’s a money issue at Highbury. Nobody is telling me different. We brought in 14 million for Vieira and did nothing with it. We could have had a number of players. Still could. How many hours left? I don’t think we will sign ANYONE this entire season… I PRAY I am wrong. But Poom is gonna be about it…
August 31st, 2005 at 11:27 am
“a beer-swigging, pizza-eating, over-weight womaniser is the best cricketer of all time.”
For a minute there I thought Eric Cantona had found a new calling.
Thanks for the info. What I was missing was the point of beating a run total. I thought they just played through both innings and carried the score over to the next day or something. There are two kinds of cricket, too, yes?
What I was noticing was that there’s an awful lot of athleticism to standing about and suddenly having a ball screaming at you from about 20 feet away and catching it with you bare hands, sometime looking as if you’ve picked an apple from a tree. Good players are also able to adjust the angle of the bat to pick out the gaps while protecting their wicket against a mean bowler. Strange to this baseball veteran, but there is an addictive element to it and I find myself paying more and more attention.
Hey, anything to keep me from thinking about reality.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:37 am
Okay, but Wenger said he was only looking at him. Had he really wanted him, I think there would have been more reported about it. With our scouting acumen, and it is quite extensive, he must have been somewhere down the list for reasons we don’t know. I tend to think Wenger was concerned he wasn’t going to work out for the amount he would play. There are always details we don’t know.
That’s kind of where we differ for the most part, Stag. You think we’re strapped for cash, and I think that, given all the cash in the world, Wenger won’t bring anyone in if they don’t provide the one chess piece or element that he wants. He’s an economist, after all. So frugality is a factor, as is the daily maintenance of his delicate mix. Its a balanced totality he’s constructing, not a collection.
Just my feelings. And, as always, I hope he gets it right.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:38 am
stags, no matter how much jenas cost, let’s wait till the end of the season to see if a bargain buy for Spurs. if he fails to make an impact with Spurs, then it would turn out that we have saved ourselves 8 mil.
the bottom line is - is Jenas really that much better than what we got? the likes of cesc, flamini? if Jenas is not THAT much better, and we bought him, just imagine the team chemistry would become…
i acknowledged there is a VOID in midfield since the departure of Vieira. but in my mind what we needed is a STRONG, POWER persence who’s able to HOLD up the ball, STOP the opponents and CONTROL THE TEMPO. jenas is by no mean that soft of players. if we are going to buy, we have to make sure we know what we are going to buy for?
August 31st, 2005 at 11:40 am
Funny. I’d be such a yank at a match. As it is, I love the highlights where the ball is “cranked” into the stands. Imagine getting 6 runs for that!
I also want to try and knock out a bail from the boundary in just the nick of time. Something about the wickets crumbling that’s satisfying.
They should have shot and beer time during major League games at the 7th inning stretch.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:43 am
Yup me too! absoultely clueless of the rules of cricket! it looks to me quite resemble to base ball, but i guess it’s a totally different ball game.
btw, i did watch the Ruby World Cup when England won it in the last minute. it’s more like my type of sports, the spirit of that England team was quite amazing. and what a dramatic final too!
August 31st, 2005 at 11:43 am
Well said! That’s what I’ve been trying to say about Wenger and chemistry. He’s EXTREMELY guarded about that. A purchase that might be even slightly at odds with how and where they fit in could upset Wenger’s delicate balance.
That being said, I can’t imagine the contract policy helps the spirit of things. However, its a good test of character.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:43 am
The Poom deal has been finalized. We get him on a season long loan, and Sunderland get Justin Hoyte for the same deal.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:45 am
yup, i think there are simply too many factors we have to consider in terms of every single decision from a manager. as i said before, as fans, everything look so easy and straight forward. but as manager, i’m sure he will have more to consider abt on every one of his decision. there is a chain effect which could easily spoil the whole thing if not handling it carefully.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:47 am
Not too bad a deal. I watched him played for Derby a few years back, and quite impressed. most important, i think he would settle to be the back up, it’s exactly what we needed at the moment - an experienced back up. For the starter, i’m quite happy with Lehmann.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:50 am
Me too, it’s Almunia I don’t trust. Poom will give us someone half decent for the first Champions League games.
August 31st, 2005 at 11:53 am
There are many professional footballers all over the world, but in terms of those that are good enough and charismatic enough to carry a team to to the highest levels of the game, there are only a handful and all of them are difficult to obtain. We looked into Robinho, and we made a very expensive offer for Baptista (which tells me that we do have money to spend). Unfortunately, neither player worked out, but there will be other opportunities including in January. Arsene paid a lot for Reyes two years ago.
You act as though it is a foregone conclusion that we will finish the season midtable. That is nonsense. This is still a very good team that will (as we do every year) compete for cup trophies and a place in the CL. Furthermore, I believe that this team has more room for improvement than our nearest competitors. Sol will be back soon and the many of the younger players will get better as the season progresses. There is no reason to panic and tear apart everything that the Club has worked for so long to build.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:17 pm
With Vieira we still had our unbeaten first 11 intact. We will miss him. We missed Berto, Edu, Parlour and a healthy Patrick last year. They were very,very important in our unbeaten run. You need depth and quality in that depth. That is how we went unbeaten. The younger guys who earned a few stripes last year would reinforce that first 11 and give us some of that depth that we will need throughout the course of a long and brutal season. To have players with the quality of Fabregas, van Persie, Clichy, Senderos and Quincy as cover for our first 11 is something scary for anyone trying to play against us, modern Premiership or whatever you want to call it. With Vieira and Gilberto back we had an incredibly awesome looking team (I just don’t understand selling our former captain).
We have absolutely no cover in the middle. Who can we turn to if Berto goes down again with a knock? Henry’s already trying to play midfield and striker. Honestly, I would like to see Flamini get a run of about 10 games with Berto to see if we can get some steel back into the center of our midfield. I believe Wenger prefers Fab though. We can stop looking for a “Vieira Replacement” because there isn’t one. It’s like trying to find a “Henry Replacement”, but to bring in a player who knows how to win games and keep the team together, especially with a bunch of young guys is crucial. Someone in the mold of Frank Rijkaard when Ajax won the Champions League with a bunch of kids would be perfect. He, in the twilight of his career, held those fearless group of kids, which included Kanu and Overmars, together to victory over the great AC Milan, which included Vieira. Who knows, maybe another Dutchamn in the twilight of his career can do it for us this year.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:19 pm
Poom is going to be broke for the first two CL games.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:25 pm
Not only that, but when fit he’s 4th in Sunderland’s goalkeeping pecking order. The other three ahead of him I’ve never heard of before.
Let’s also hope that we don’t get any injuries in the back four, since hoyte has been sent out on loan to Sunderland.
I’ve lost a lot of confidence in Wenger. Then again, maybe he’s being a good soldier and not revealing that his Board has given him no money to spend. If that’s the case he (and Henry) will not be around for much longer.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:39 pm
OK Scotty, so you are a new cricket fan eh? Then you’ll be able to recite the 10 ways a batsman (i.e., batter) can be dismissed (i.e., got out).
No? OK here they are:
1. Bowled.
2. Caught.
3. Stumped.
4. Run Out
5. Leg Before Wicket (LBW).
6. Handled Ball.
7. Obstructing a Fielder.
8. Hit Wicket.
9. Hit the ball Twice.
10. Timed Out.
Items 6 through 10 are extremely rare (didn’t prevent me getting out on number 7 once - a moment of extreme ignominy).
If you want explanations of what all this means, you need only ask.
Ah cricket, loverly cricket!
August 31st, 2005 at 12:44 pm
Yes, there are indeed two forms:
Test Cricket(The Ashes format)
Each team has two innings to score runs, with no limit on how long an innings may last. The teams take their innings in turn.
The runs the teams score in both their innings are added together, and the one with the most wins.
A Test match can last a maximum of five days, and for a team to win, their opponents must have had two complete innings.
If neither team completes two innings during the game it is a draw. If the two teams finish with exactly the same number of runs, the game is a tie, which is different to a draw.
One Day cricket
Each team has one innings to score as many runs as possible. Each innings lasts a maximum of 50 overs.
The one-day matches are generally more exciting because of the format, however because most cricketers play one-day matches now, this aggressive and adventurous style of play is now more prevalent in the five-day marathon test matches, which were previously akin to watching paint dry. Batsmen actually TRY to hit boundaries now instead of singles.
Your right, once you get to know the little nuances and types of dismissals-LBW for instance- it is quite addictive.
August 31st, 2005 at 12:46 pm
This anonymous gooner thing is getting on my tits!
August 31st, 2005 at 12:53 pm
I agree with what you wrote.
I have always advocated bringing in 2 to 3 (max) players that will have an impact on Arsenal’s performance and results. The youngsters have potential but will it find tough to make an impact in a game the way an experienced player like a Ballack or an Adriano or an Essien can. Looking at this season’s transfers, we saw that Juventus went for an impact player in Viera, Barcelona went for van Bommel and RM went for Batista and Robinho. Manure has impact players in Ronaldo, Rooney and Ferdinand. Chel$ki has similar in Robben, Lampard, Terry and Drogba.
Arsenal has only Henry. Ljundberg is close to being an impact player. Lehmann’s performance in last year’s FA cup final qualifies but he is not very consistent. van Persie could develop into one. Helb looks promising. Sol is too often injured. The rest of the players can be counted on to do their job of stringing neat passes together but to expect them to win a game with a long range shot or score from a setpiece or save the game with a last ditch tackle, I don’t think they are there yet.
August 31st, 2005 at 1:42 pm
I don’t think we will finish mid-table this year.
Take out Henry, and we might.
I am not even sure the Robinho bid was real. I think it was a smoke screen. And Baptista? He was NEVER coming to England, let alone Arsenal.
In hindsight.
I don’t think either player was a serious possibility.
August 31st, 2005 at 1:46 pm
We’ve done it!
We have brought in POOOOOOOOOOM!
Apparently he was 4th in the pecking order at Sunderland!
Hoyte out on season long loan… does that mean his Arsenal career is over?
Who has gone out on season long loan and then come back to Arsenal and played well for us?
(I am asking, might be a few?)
We are OVER THE TOP NOW. All apologies Arsene.
We’ve got Mart Poom.
We should definitely win the league and make a run at the CL this year now.
Any doubters out there still?
August 31st, 2005 at 1:48 pm
Actually I could have answered at least 5 of them off the top of my head, having refreshed this morning. I do, however, understand all 10. Its official, I’m on board for life and will now begin to seek out ways in which I can impose my opinions on supporters of the sport ad nauseum. ;^)
And I finally know what “howzat?” means.
Unfortunately, there is no real equivalent in America outside of a very loose association with baseball, which I’ve played half of my life. So I doubt I’ll have a chance to give it a shot.
Hmmm…maybe I could invent wiffle cricket!
August 31st, 2005 at 1:59 pm
Why is it called the World Series? It’s not a global league, is it?
August 31st, 2005 at 2:07 pm
As I see it, there’s reason to be both mildly pleased and genuinely baffled here. For one, I’ve been hearing that Poom is an exciting keeper and a decent stop-gap for us right now. Don’t ask me how he’s 4th in the pecking order at Sunderland, but he’s got a zillion caps for Estonia (who, I have just learned, are the number one country in the WORLD for death be accident. Don’t ask.) and he can score (or has, at least). We should assume that Wenger sees him more suited for us than Sunderland do and he’s only on until January.
My real problem is that he’s injured for another 4 weeks. Thun is in 2. So we’ll be seeing Almunia, I presume. Add to that Ajax in four weeks, and the choice is between Almunia and a questionably “fit” keeper who hasn’t played in some time.
Mart Poom, whoah-oh
Mart Poom, whoah-oh-oh-oh
We don’t know who you are
Fourth choice for chats noir
Sigh.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:12 pm
Its no secret that I understand and trust Wenger. But I now find myself bursting into mad, inappropriate laughter at this recent activity. Its just become soooo hysterical top me for some reason when I think that we Gooners were again expecting a certain level of activity and we’ve received the loss of Paddy, the acquisition of a Belarussian and now Sunderlands 4th keeper.
Kind of lets off ALL the pressure at once when taken in any context. Is anyhone else giggling their arse off, right now?
For the record, I am confident he can do the job. Seriously. But its still funny.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:32 pm
A bit condencending no? In all honesty, I think one of the “charms” (if I can use that word in this case) of ArseAm is to provoke….sometimes with no desire to write a thesis, just to chase the boredome away. Anyways, cheers to all of the higer I.Q. people out there!
August 31st, 2005 at 2:37 pm
Got it. So in a Test match, there are no maximums for overs and a team can score a jillion runs until the entire side has gone to bat. BUT, if after five days both teams haven’t finished their innings, its a draw so a team well in the lead can declare their innings closed in order to get on with things. Interesting stuff.
The more complexities I understand, the more fun it is. This is one I find amusing:
“If a fielder leaves the field for any reason and then returns during the same innings, he may not bowl until he has been on the field again for as much time as he spent off the field.”
Kind of petty, isn’t it? :^)
August 31st, 2005 at 2:40 pm
One of the things I love about Arsenal is that the badge stands for something. I for one am happy at the progress over the past 9 yrs. Arsene has done enough (buying us time with consistency) to enable us to build new grounds while not languishing at midtable. I say well done. Wenger deserves at this time all of our collective gratitude and trust. It couldv’e been and could be a whole lot worse.
August 31st, 2005 at 2:58 pm
Just reread your post (completely wasted this day on Poomwatch and cricket) and I think Kolo in midfield is a great option once Sol returns. The fact that he’s never played in midfield once in my recollection of preseason matches or otherwise makes it unlikely, but I would love to know why.
Chelsea will probably outbid us for Babel but they can’t have everyone. With Quincy back from being on loan, we might have a shot. I’ll take Vincent Kompany, too.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:01 pm
You can get your fill of the ball-by-ball radio commentary on the Beeb, starting Thursday week (Sep 8). Play starts at 10:30 am UK time which 5:30 am on the East Coast. Just like John Miller used to be for the O’s, the BBC (Test Match Special) radio commentary takes you right there. Many cricket fans in the UK turn off the telly sound and have the radion commentary on while watching. I highly recommend it.
Try bbc.co.uk the look for sports or Radio Five Live.
Enjoy.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:10 pm
How does Real get away with selling Owen for 17 mil a year after buying him for 8? He sat on the bench for most of last year. Who got screwed the most, Liverpool or Newcastle?
August 31st, 2005 at 3:20 pm
This is a truly baffling move by Arsenal. Why loan out Hoyte when it is apparent we do not have the depth in defence. Lauren is the only experienced right back. Eboue could play there but has about the same if not less experience than Hoyte. Why not loan Uruguayan keeper Viera for one year then and monitor his health then? Will Poom be ready for the first CL game? This is really a puzzling move. I hope Wenger saw something in Poom that nobody else saw - and prove all doubters wrong.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:48 pm
Interesting day for those who were hoping we would add some depth before the transfer deadline:
- Bentley and Hoyte out
- injured backup Sunderland GK in
So much for depth and so much for a new GK for the first couple of CL games.
Hopefully Wenger will prove the doubters wrong again, but this one is interesting…
BTW, Stag, the only one I remember who went out on loan and went on to succeed at Arsenal has been Cole. Don’t think it was a season-long loan though.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:50 pm
gunner4life, we can’t possibly loan Vieira. He’s 22, a player with reputation. His club would only willing to sell him to make some cash. What do they got if they loan him out?
there are only 2 types of loan deal as far as I’m concerned - 1. those who doesn’t have chances in their club, mostly often are the veterans over 30s or youngsters. Those players would settle a loan deal elsewhere to get experience, or just to play.
2. The bigger names in a lower division. For instance, a Premiship side just get relegated. A few of their star players refuse to play in a lower division. The club doesn’t want to cash them in yet, so they would loan them out just to keep them happy.
August 31st, 2005 at 3:54 pm
Note: Poom’s loan deal will last only 4 monthes, until January 2006. So clearly is a temporary move to fill the gap. Does not worth a fuss.
personally i think it’s a good move. clearly we haven’t got the right ‘keeper we want yet, but we need cover, loaning Poom, an experienced keeper as a temporary back up allow us to buy some more time looking for the right target. Better wait and rush.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:11 pm
(Read something elsewhere, and i absoultely love it!)
… Just how useless are we? - A tribute to the moaners of this world.
Lehmann - A Liability, managed to go 49 games unbeaten, will want to really impress this year as the World Cup is in his own country, but I listen to the blokes down the Pub who read the Sun, and they say he’s **AYE CARUMBA**(censored). So thats that.
Ashley Cole - Best left back in the world. Has looked committed and wanting to prove his loyalty so far. But I hate him because he spoke to the chavs. Therefore he is **AYE CARUMBA**(censored).
Gael Clichy - Potentially Better than the best left back in the world. But hes young, so bring back Nutty.
Senderos - Awesome, but he looked dodgy once in one game and is too young. The next Tony Adams? Possibly, but doesn’t deserve the chance, we should spend ?80million on Nesta. Or something.
Toure - One of the most versatile, dynamic and consistant defenders in the PL. Never gets the credit he deserves, has a great engine. Came from Beveren though, so is therefore not good enough for AFC, with its proud history of Colin Pates’ and Andy Linighans.
Sol Campbell - Fat bastard. used to be great. One of the best CBs in the world this time last year. But I havent seen him for a few months and therefore assume he is **AYE CARUMBA**(censored) cos he never plays for Ingerland.
Lauren - Wanker. Always lets us down. So what if hes committed, passionate and pacey, there are at least….ummmmm…well, why don’t we sign that nice Gary Neville? He’s great.
Pires - Past it, only scores nearly 20 goals a season from midfield. We need someone like Kewell or Davies.
Gilberto - World Cup winner, the invisible wall, and nearing his peak. Performs a necessary task in the midle that we missed last year, but he can’t score from there, so I hate him. Put Jenas in instead.
Cesc - Widely regarded as one of the most exciting talents in the league by the experts. If he played for Man Utd or Chelsea you would never hear the end of it, but he is small, and he is young. Not good enough. We need a dirty cripple in the middle like Keane or Davids, not a player with the potential to be a world beater and have all the fancy flicks.
Flamini - We missed Ray Parlour last year. What we don’t need is a like for like replacement though who is French. Seems Passionate, is again too young and cheap.
Ljungberg - Too much experience, cares too much and is one of the only players who likes to get in the box. Sell him, he’s no Dyer or Duff, so we should lose him.
Hleb- Despite signing no-one this summer, we somehow find ourselves with this ?10million rated little beaut who lit up the Bundesliga. Still, I hadn’t heard of him, and we should have signed the bench warmer Socialist Workers Party instead. For loads more money. Obviously.
Reyes - Versatile, newly focussed and single, signed until 2011. We have seen what he can do, but he had a slump last year, so we should have spent ?16 million on Owen instead. He would have been much better.
Bergkamp - Absolute genius. Great passer, scores wonder goals, compliments Wengers style perfectly. Buts he’s old.
RvP - Bergkamp with more speed, agility and dynamism, but too young and passionate. We should have kept Kanu or Wiltord, they never got into trouble.
Henry- OK, I quite like him. But the chavs will buy him next year anyway.
(’Tongue in cheek’ - This funny-sounding expression indicates that someone just told a joke or isn’t being serious. If someone says something ‘tongue-in-cheek’ he or she is usually kidding. It’s believed that this saying was created by an English humorist in the 1800’s.)
August 31st, 2005 at 4:24 pm
Obviously, Henry is exceptional and losing him would be a massive blow. But, I will say that we played the final eight to ten games of last season without him (and Sol) and did well. We even beat out Manure for 2nd place.
You could be right about Baptista, but you can’t say that Arsenal wasn’t trying. DD was in talks with Sevilla for over a month. I’m not sure what faking interest in Robinho would’ve gotten us.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Think you got it nailed. England actually declared in the third test but couldn’t get all the Aussie batsmen out. Ended up a draw, which, after five days, is an anti-climax if there ever was one.
Im actually starting to get quite worried about my enjoyment of cricket, weighing up whether to buy Brian Lara Cricket 2005 on PS2. My obsession with boxing led me to buy every updated version of Knockout Kings until they found sense and finished it. Can’t let it happen with Cricket, goddamn it!
August 31st, 2005 at 4:54 pm
It would have gotten fans off their back for having ZERO intention of spending any money.
I don’t think they ever planned to buy anyone.
We weren’t getting Robinho, that was a farce, and we went after a player in Baptista that was NEVER interested in coming to England.
Both players were not coming to Arsenal at any point.
August 31st, 2005 at 4:57 pm
Which badge? The old one with all the history, or the new one the team created for marketing reasons?
August 31st, 2005 at 4:58 pm
Arsenal did…
because we still don’t have a fox in the box, and if Henry goes down we’re f’d.
August 31st, 2005 at 5:10 pm
Love it! Except the Pires bit - he really might be past it…
One way to look at things is that we might have two world-class additions this year:
- Sol - again, one of best CBs in the world 12 months ago
- JAR - if he can play as against Fulham or first 2 months last year
+ one of the most exciting new forwards in Quincy
August 31st, 2005 at 5:12 pm
Sounds kind of conspiracy theoryish doesn?t it? Wouldn?t it be easier for Arsene just to say that he likes the team he has and that he doesn?t feel the need to buy anybody new.
P.S. We did spend 7-10 million on Hleb, which is not an insignificant amount.
August 31st, 2005 at 5:15 pm
That was too funny! Good work.
August 31st, 2005 at 5:45 pm
We sold Vieira for DOUBLE that.
Arsenal are not immune to their supporters backlash. You don’t lose the league by 12 points and sell your captain… and say…
we are going to STAND PAT… we like our team.
Thats sounds like you have NO AMBITION to win titles.
August 31st, 2005 at 5:55 pm
Hold your breath Stag.
The guy is the 4th choice goalie and the last time he played was ages ago.
God Help us.
August 31st, 2005 at 5:59 pm
I hope you don’t play fro the NY Mets.
August 31st, 2005 at 6:12 pm
Hmmm Cricket..
Let me say Cricket is better than Poom but I don’t understand Cricket. I’m taking some lessions and learning the terms and is ok but give me fOOtball anything or day.
I guess all the hype is cuz England is going to win the Ashes but afterwards the media attention will be switch back to football.
Why in earth did we signed Poom? 4th in the packing order. God when was the last time the guy kicked a ball.
Ambition you kidding me
August 31st, 2005 at 6:16 pm
What do you mean if Jenas fails to make an impact. How can you tell me or explain to me Mr Wenger himself say the guuy is good and then could not come up with the money..
Something is not right Sorry Andez then we sign Poom. Forward not backwards.
August 31st, 2005 at 6:18 pm
Fair enough, although I still find it hard to believe that the Club would go to the trouble of manufacturing fake bids for players just to appease some supporters, which judging by some of the comments on this site hasn’t appeared to work anyway.
I also think that when judging a Club’s ambition one should look at more than just one summer’s transfer activity and/or more than just the decision to let one player move on. Spurs and Birmingham are great examples of this. Every summer they’re involved in so much transfer activity it makes your head spin. Yet every season they fail to impress, and when you look at the quality of those squads there is much more room for new players to make an impact in those teams than there is in ours.
August 31st, 2005 at 6:19 pm
Well - we gave them one of our best young player and took Poom in return. What a deal.
Ambition for sure.. Spurs now even out gun us in the market. I don’t like the future a bit
August 31st, 2005 at 6:22 pm
You said some few years back. Ok when was the last time he kicked a ball.
Someone is taking the piss. An experienced back up.. 4th in the packing order.
August 31st, 2005 at 6:24 pm
Lol !!!
August 31st, 2005 at 6:29 pm
Do you know what will happen tommorow Andez. In case anything happen to Lehmann during that time we will be Fuked..
Ambition - We going backwards not forward.
This is not funny anymore.
August 31st, 2005 at 6:34 pm
What a big joke.
Let all pray nothing happens to Lehmann in the next 4 months. All that we need is 2 serious injuries and kiss good bye to finishing 4th.
This is not funny anymore. As Stag said I hope Wenger proves me wrong but this is not a club with ambitions.
August 31st, 2005 at 7:33 pm
Come on LoveG… Arsene knows… if he’s good enough for 4th keeper for Sunderland, he’s good enough for us.
I guess Bentley and Hoyte’s careers at Arsenal are probably over… so much for thin depth… we apparently have LOTS of depth, we are loaning out Aliadiare, Bentley and Hoyte… we must have more depth than we know what to do with.
If you can figure out this mystery that is the Arsensal Football Club in the 2005-2006 season, you let me know. I haven’t got a CLUE what the hell we are doing.
August 31st, 2005 at 7:36 pm
I’d say Spurtz did pretty well in the transfer market. Every time we “allegedly” were in for a player, SO WERE THEY!
The only difference was, they actually GOT THEM.
It could be argued that with Edgar Davids, and Jermaine Jenas, whom they got for FREE and 7mill., they bought a better central midfield that we have. They are certainly more proven talent wise.
August 31st, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Andez… please tell me… as LoveG points out… if Lehmann were to break his leg while walking his dog, where the hell would the Arsenal Football Club be then?
Are you kidding me?
I can say for DEFINITE… if Lehmann / Gilberto / or Henry were to suffer a serious injury, we would be absolutely SCREWED.
We had the ENTIRE SUMMER and until August 31st to bring in a keeper. Could have been a BIG NAME one, or proven keeper… and we did NOTHING. What the hell is going on over there.
Then the Viera saga, NO NOT MY PADDY, the other Viera. The Keeper. He is not fit? oh, but he’s good enough for Villareal?? huh? who is fooling who?
August 31st, 2005 at 8:26 pm
The Baptista bid was screwed up from the beginning…The whole affair dragged on for 6 weeks…We were in there lowballing the whole time till Real Madrid came along…This again shows the cheap nature of either AW or DD…If we had slapped down 15million pounds after the first 2 weeks, we would probably have had the player…But, no, we went in with 8 million, raised it little by little…Don’t you think Del Nido wouldn’t have taken a good offer and ran from the beginning.It was losing proposition for him to keep the player another year….He knew what the player was worth and waited…But we were trying to be cheap…It backfired…Real Madrid after losing to Toyko Verdy 3-0, decided they better go for Baptista…I believe if we had offered the 15 million 2 weeks out, we would have Baptista now…He may not have liked England, like Reyes, but would have been a professional and put his best effort out there for the World Cup.
August 31st, 2005 at 8:39 pm
You could be correct. Jol does seem smarter than his predecessors. Maybe this is the year they start to get it right. Although, I have my doubts - the Jenas signing doesn?t scare me. We?ll just have to wait and see.
Fortunately, I am still confident that we are a better team than Spurs, and that Arsenal is by far the more progressive club. I posted this the other day, but thought it would apply here as well:
?Arsene is working to evolve the club into a world-class organization, one that would be able to offer the highest caliber players the best footballing environment. I agree with you that we are not there yet. However, the club have come a long way toward achieving that status since Arsene got here, and I firmly believe we will have substantially more to offer in five and ten years time.?
August 31st, 2005 at 8:55 pm
I don’t think Del Nido was going take just any offer. He had a player that had scored almost 40 goals in two years. He knew what the rough valuation was and he had always stated that he would not settle for a low ball price.
I will say though that I was surprised that Arsenal came in so low in the beginning. They too must have known that it was low for a player of that caliber. Although, I’m not sure that we would have been able to sign Baptista regardless. By the end, it was pretty clear that he wanted to stay in Spain. I think Del Nido played the situation very well using our offer and the associated media attention to make other potential buyers aware of Baptista’s availability and to help increase the price.
August 31st, 2005 at 9:24 pm
I have never whined about Arsenal so far, but getting Poom shows that we are not carefull.
Poom was the 4th keeper in Sunderland. I know that he is expereinced and having him is better than not having one… but please look at Chelsea and Man u or Liverpool, their GK are way much better than our keepers with some exception to Lehman. Even Southhampton has better keeper Combo than Arsenal.
Why did we loan out Hoyte ? I think we need more than any time.
those 2 days of transfer was bad.. I was hoping to see P**y Bently playing with Arsenal.
August 31st, 2005 at 9:42 pm
So ‘Barnet guy’ whats the average I.Q in your neck of the woods? I went to a secondary comprehensive in South London (Forest Hill, a.k.a Dacres road) and half our mob couldn`t even spell it! The thing that I`ve noticed in the few months I have tuned in is the lack of variety in posters…the same old names keep appearing, mabey thats why it seems like a bunch of kids name calling. Are you still a Barnet bloke or are you this side of the water? SE.26 Rules! (its a London thing).
August 31st, 2005 at 9:52 pm
Bravo, Andez. A great laugh which is what I need lately.
August 31st, 2005 at 9:55 pm
It would have been too spooky for us to have signed another guy named Vieira. It would have been like paddy had left but then again Vieira was still here.
August 31st, 2005 at 9:58 pm
Like in any transfer its usually a question of how much a buyer will pay rather than the clubs own sticker price on the player. In this instance Newcastle were desperate and Real got maximum price. If Newcastle had not been in the market than the price would have been a lot lower.
August 31st, 2005 at 10:00 pm
Hey man any news about your mom and other relatives??
Do they have food and stuff??
August 31st, 2005 at 10:52 pm
I actually took this bloke in my fantasy football pool when I needed a cheap backup keeper! Am I on the same wavelength as Wenger or is Wenger playing fantasy football with Arsenal?!?
September 1st, 2005 at 1:19 am
Wenger has been reluctant to spend big money, especially on defenders and goalkeepers. His two big signings (Reyes and Wiltord) haven’t really clicked, although I think Baptista would have (had it worked out). Every year, we feel that we are one or two players short, but we have managed to do well. So we should keep faith in Wenger. But I am very surprised by the move for Poom. He is currently injured. How come he passed a medical, when Viera failed one because of some cyst in his hip? Is it because Poom is just a loanee and till New Year only. I am thinking that Wenger will swoop for a new goalkeeper in January.
September 1st, 2005 at 7:24 am
Arsenal will not swoop for anything.
We are not spending money. PERIOD.
We are far more than one or two players short, and we are loaning out players all over the place.
Wenger doesn’t normally buy in January. He says the prices are too high, seller’s market.
There are financial issues. There is no doubt in my mind. Why else would you gamble the whole season on players HAVING to stay injury free?
Any type of long term injury to a number of players and we are F’d. In a fight for a CL spot.
Embarassing for a team that was so close 2 years ago for the BEST TEAM IN THE WORLD, and undefeated in the EPL.
September 1st, 2005 at 7:43 am
Hey LoveG, Stag, you guys are pondering if a BIG what IF (Lehmann get injuried). But wait a mintue here… what we have been talking about? What was our GK line up last season compare to this term?
Last Season - Lehmann, Almunia, Taylor
This seasno - Lehmann, Almunia, Poom
The only difference is Poom and Taylor, so what’s such a big deal here?
Pls keep in mind, apart from Cashsea, not too many teams got two top class keepers in their squad. Not even Real Madrid. What if IKer Casillas injuried? Why didn’t they buy Buffon as back up or starter, with so much cash they got?
September 1st, 2005 at 7:45 am
Things are getting more baffling by the day.
If Poom is good enough then I would have expected us to have taken him in for the season. The fact that at the moment he is on loan until January means he is a stop gap measure in a kind of ‘may or may not need him’ type of arrangment. This means that Alumina will most probably play in partl for the first 2 CL games. Scary to say the least.
CL football with an ex-Celta Vigo backup fighting with an injured newly promoted team’s 4th choice for the keeper spot. Interesting.
September 1st, 2005 at 8:05 am
I no longer dare to ask for the BENEFIT OF DOUFT to the manager who have proved himself over years. All I want now is a FAIR CHANCE. A FAIR CHANCE for the player / manager to prove themselves. If we are going to shoot them, Poom for example, wait till he really fails. For the time being, why can’t we just keep an open mind and give the poor fellow a chance (to prove himself). Afterall it’s only a 4 month deal, chance is Poom may have left before he even got to play a single game for us. It really doesn’t worth to make a big fuss out of it.
September 1st, 2005 at 8:44 am
Okay, we need a new post cause this one is getting a bit lengthy and I can’t always remember what I have or haven’t read.
Poom - For keepers, it doesn’t really matter who they play for. The worse the club, the more action the keeper gets. We would all have been happy with Green at the start of last season. He had a few blinders, people were pegging him for a call up, and now he wishes he was in the top flight. And if you ask me, the reason Lehmann stopped Scholes strike last May was because he’d had more to do on the day. If there’s a keeper that’s unproven, its Cech, although he’s very talented in his own right.
And this 4th choice business seems more an exaggeration as I do my research. Sunderland fans are apparently VERY pissed off that he’s coming to Arsenal. They’re calling us spoiled and ungrateful, which to some degree is true. This guy was going straight to number one as soon as he was healthy, from what I’ve been reading. Relax, guys, we’re probably going to be pleasantly surprised, even if Almunia kicks off our European campaign.
Loan Moans - If we’ve got first and second team cover, and that includes Hleb being able to cover anywhere in midfield, then its kind of fortunate that we have the young talent to loan out to get first team “Premiership” games under their belt. Think about it, Hoyte is likely to face Chelsea this weekend. He’d never had that opportunity to face off with Robben on our bench waiting for someone to get hurt. He was part of the deal because he’s that good already from working out with The Arsenal and he’s versatile. Sunderland are COUNTING on him. Why do so many of our reserves end up leaving? They’re too good and impatient. Some will stick around, like Aliadiere, and I think he’ll kill when Henry starts looking for kinder and gentler pitches down south. As we say in Jersey, “We’ve got money on the streets”. When it comes back, it’ll be with interest.
If I’m reading Wenger correctly, he’s going to have a tight, hungry unit coming together over the next few months and into the next year with no bad apples and shrinking debt. Part of me thinks he’s looking ahead to next year a bit too much for most of us, but if you’d built a brand new stadium, wouldn’t you? He played keepy-uppy in his shorts for the press just a few weeks ago. This is the crowning achievement of his career at the moment. I think he deserves to put it on the forefront. And I’m certain everyone he wants on the pitch and in the stands will be there.
Keep the Faith, guys. Seriously.
September 1st, 2005 at 8:58 am
I have to agre with you, Andez. If there’s anything The Arsenal has taught us over the years, is that fiscal conservatism and an emphasis on the product has helped this club grow with some real silverware to show for it.
But when it comes to supporters, and I fall into this from time to time too, there’s nothing quite like a false sense of security to give one the illusion of stability and control. We’re not on the inside, so we need names and money spent to quell our nerves. And nothing makes us more nervous than to lose a big name, as we’re brainwashed into replaying their big moments in our heads cause we love them so much. Wenger is not one to do something irresponsible just to sleep better. In fact, I’m sure he’s sleeping fine knowing that he’s used uncommon sense even if it appears ridiculous to most of us. If I were him, I would just point to the trophy case and list of stars he, alone, has created. He still needs the CL, but that’s a little like blaming a great race horse for not winning the Triple Crown for the amount of horses that have managed it.
I think the tale will be told in the middle of the table this season. I’m willing to bet all my money that we’ll end up in the top three at the very least and that the rest of the league will close what was a 30-40 point gap. That was just sad, and no amount of winning for us could be enjoyed without some pundit saying that the League was weak. Well, they can’t say that anymore. At least not from the start. But I believe the personality mix is as close to right as it can be for us to maintain a fighting spirit and to get better with every game. I really don’t see a November slouch either unless we’re hit with a freak amount of injuries.
Romford Pele at the weekend. Always love seeing he and the lads greet one another.
September 2nd, 2005 at 8:20 pm
It’s called the World Series because the newspaper that first sponsored the championship was “The World.”
September 6th, 2005 at 2:39 am
nope.
http://www.snopes.com/business/names/worldseries.asp
http://roadsidephotos.com/baseball/name.htm