Right. Almost to the halfway point of the season and the Arsenal sit in 8th place. It’s pretty clear at this point that this team, as currently constituted is not positioned to win consistently enough to challenge for the league. Maybe they can run a hot hand of luck to a Cup final, we’ll see in the Spring.
I’m not an expert, so I’m not going to pretend I am one. Here are some things I’ve been wondering about:
Ok, you can’t make a leopard change its spots, but I’m just not seeing any adjustments made out there. Yes, I know they are Chelsea, but Arsenal aren’t Sunderland, they shouldn’t let anybody come into their house and roll them. Was there nothing that could be done? I’ll never see as many soccer matches as I’ve seen American football games, but in America the coaches come up with different schemes for different opponents. Is that just not possible in soccer? I’m not saying Arsenal should come out in a 2-7-1 formation or something crazy, but don’t you try something different when you are playing at home and have absolutely nothing to lose?
Anytime a team has problems playing one style, people clamour for the opposite. Right now Gooners would be happy to see Arsenal slug out 1-nil victories with a bunch of no talent thugs. I don’t see that happening, but even I, a proponent of our beautiful game style, would like to see a little more steel added.
There can be no doubt Arsenal are in a transition faze. The team is caught between the old guard (Pires, DB10, Freddie) and the new (Lupoli, Quincy, Clichy, etc.). It’s a difficult position, and I realize you can’t just go out and pick up ready made superstars. But here’s what I don’t get. Couldn’t Arsenal have picked up two or three solid veterans? Surely there is a 26 year old midfielder plying his trade at Stuttgart, Chievo or Osasuna. Perhaps a defender from Norway, Denmark or Sweden. Not a superstar, just a solid veteran who would have played in about 20 games for us and been a dependable squad player. Does every squad player have to be 18-years old?
For every Wayne Gretzky you need a Marty McSorley. For every Michael Jordan you need a Dennis Rodman. Cesc needs an enforcer to partner with.
There’s a lot of work to do in January, it would be ashame to move in to the new stadium without any European football.
35 Responses to “Don’t tell me the problem, tell me the solution”
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December 19th, 2005 at 1:12 pm
We did make adjustments. Wenger switched to 4-5-1/4-3-3. Suffice to say it didn’t really work as Van Persie’s strengths were compromised by playing leftish wing. Then again, with those planks as centre-halves we could have played a defensive midfield dream team and still got sliced and diced at the back.
December 19th, 2005 at 1:43 pm
The solution?
Well, its buying in January. Proven players.
I’d go with Rosicky, Diop, and a tried and proven central defender.
Next, we need Ash to come back in January and play decent football for us until he gets back to 100%.
So we need the team to get healthy and we need an infusion of talent in January. Without it, we are not making the top 4 in the league.
As far as changing our style for certain games / teams? Well… until Mr.Wenger accepts that the team is not good enough, he will continue playing as we are. Someone has to get to him and make him understand its NOT the same team as two years ago, so its not going to work.
Time will tell, it always does.
January is just 12 days away.
If we don’t buy quality, we’ll be seeing Henry 14 on the back of a Barcelona shirt next year.
At that point, I’ll be at Highbury, with bullhorm in hand, screaming for Wenger to come out, so I can kick his ass down the street.
December 19th, 2005 at 1:43 pm
The solution?
Well, its buying in January. Proven players.
I’d go with Rosicky, Diop, and a tried and proven central defender.
Next, we need Ash to come back in January and play decent football for us until he gets back to 100%.
So we need the team to get healthy and we need an infusion of talent in January. Without it, we are not making the top 4 in the league.
As far as changing our style for certain games / teams? Well… until Mr.Wenger accepts that the team is not good enough, he will continue playing as we are. Someone has to get to him and make him understand its NOT the same team as two years ago, so its not going to work.
Time will tell, it always does.
January is just 12 days away.
If we don’t buy quality, we’ll be seeing Henry 14 on the back of a Barcelona shirt next year.
At that point, I’ll be at Highbury, with bullhorn in hand, screaming for Wenger to come out, so I can kick his ass down the street.
December 19th, 2005 at 3:03 pm
Before a ball was kicked this season I said Arsenal need some experience players but was told by some folks here that Wenger knows. When we sold PV I said that was a bad business cuz we are not a selling club but as always some folks here are too fast to rubbish you without any points. Saying the truth does not means you negative but been real about what was wrong with the Arsenal.
We need a short term solution.
1. Let signed Ballack. Ballack will joined Arsenal if we get our act together by working hard with his agent and at the same time prove to him with Henry staying Arsenal is the only club with ambition. Is all about selling the club and its ambition to the players. Yes players like me, Henry or even you wanna see the color green but also have to proved to them the club have ambitions
2. Get Graveson. He knows the in’s and out of the league and will do a better job than any of the players we have now as a holding midfield player.
These 2 are for the short term.
Now we need 2 CD but is too late now for that with the world cup coming. I don’t see any good player with experience joining.
Arsenal and Wenger have to be realistic and spend money on a very good experience defender who is fast and can control the ball well.
Sad to say we will missed Toure during the Afican Cup of Nation. I don’t think Arsenal have even planned for that. He is the only player playing well too.
December 19th, 2005 at 3:08 pm
Diop will be too expensive. MF is asking for almost ?15 mil for him, so with that amount of money let go and buy Graveson for less.Graveson is good in the air and better than Diop.
December 19th, 2005 at 3:13 pm
I am under the impression that Everton have FIRST RIGHTS to Gravesen. If this is the case, I don’t see how they would allow him to go to another team. They are battling relelgation and could really use him.
December 19th, 2005 at 3:15 pm
I haven’t seen much of him except a few rare highlights, but apparently Kolo’s brother YAYA TOURE gets rave reviews. Kolo had said previously that his brother is a better player than he is. Anything I have seen written about him says he is very good. Gotta be strong if he’s anything like Kolo. Why not bring him to the Arsenal.
December 19th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
Stag money talks. Yes as some naive folks said money is the root of all evil but tell me with money in the bank Graveson will joined a big club like Arsenal, not going back to a small like Everton. We have to talk to Everton if that is the case. Is all about talking to both Graveson and Everton with money in the hand. Such is life. You pay for what you get.
He will loved to played for a team in the CL not a team fighting relegation dog fights
December 19th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Is there an echo in here?
December 19th, 2005 at 4:30 pm
No one’s a bigger fan of Thierry Henry than I am.
When he sulks around the pitch, the first thing I think is “get with lads! Titi’s not happy!”.
When he hits tries something fancy with a sitter or a penalty when we really could use the goal, I say, “he needs to express himself and have fun!”
When he has a poor run of form against stronger opponents, I say, “he’s not getting service. He can’t do it all!”
But by not committing one way or the other to the club so that it hangs over our every game and apologizing to everyone on the pitch for our performance…well, I have to say that’s some star-effing bullsh*t.
He gets it all, no one stands up to him, and that’s probably hurt him over the years. And that’s a bit of a problem.
He’s a man. Not infallible.
December 19th, 2005 at 5:08 pm
Huh?
Yes, sure … have the man commit to the club who won’t commit to spending money on proven players. Why should Henry commit to Arsenal?
Why not have Arsenal offer him an 8 yr contract for about 130,000 per week… so they can’t SELL HIM when he hits 31 or 32.
Sign him to a GUARANTEED contract, that says if they sell him, he gets 20 million.
We’ll see how committed Arsenal are.
Please… when you sell your Captain, in Patrick Vieira, I think it lets the star players know where you stand as a team… that you will sell your stars and captains and whatever else you think is necessary to make a buck.
Arsenal’s attitude of not buying proven stars to keep up with Henry is some real stupid bullsh*t.
They are paying the price now. If I were Henry, I’d tell Wenger to buy in January and commit to WINNING or stuff yourself like a Christmas Turkey.
Blaming Henry. Thats just brilliant Scotty.
Sorry he couldn’t score 2 more wonder goals yesterday, maybe if we could get him the ball a bit more often he would have.
December 19th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
What makes me mad is that it is exactly the same problems.
Are our coaches and manager so damn INCOMPETENT that to this day after 10 years they stil have not devised a plan to stop the same errors from occurring?
We have already won half the battle before the game even begins as we know what tactics the opponents will employ without even a ball being kicked yet we fold wither like Lauren’s tooth after an Essien thuggy moment.
Buy in January? with what money? After our financing for the new stadium was delayed…who will give their money Edelman?
And who would want to join a team full of lightweight youths who fall when the wind changes direction? Who would want to join a team who has NO CAPTAIN who again went missing in a big game.
Who would want to join a team who may consistently finish 8th or 9th?
We need some grunt agreed…so what do we do? BUY A WEAKLING LIKE ROSICKY!
fvcking right!
December 19th, 2005 at 6:34 pm
Still surprized at the lack of planning for worst case scenarios (and even long term planning to some extent) by Wenger and Co. After we lost PV, no replacement was brought in (endlessly debated here). And then there was no adequate cover for half dozen key player injuries. It is clear how the team suffers when Henry is not around. And Henry can’t be expected to perform miracles week in week out with no support. He hit the post against Bolton and yesterday. But the fact is those were the few chances. In the past, if Henry didn’t convert, he got other chances. The commentators normally say that weaker teams should take each chance they get against one of the bigger teams because they won’t get another chance. Damn, that problem seems to be happenning with Arsenal now. If Henry does not covert the half chance he gets, then that is it. No more chances will come his (or Arsenal’s) way. Both Henry and Van Persie were dropping back so deep yesterday because the midfield had no hold on the game.
The last few weeks has proved what an asset Toure is. If we can get a clone of him in the midfield right now, it might be a temprorary fix. And now we will lose him for the African Nations Cup. I just hope Wenger does not complain about releasing him because this tournament has been on the calendar for a few months now. No planning there either.
Anyway, don’t want to harp on the obvious problems. I think every team in the league knows Arsenal problems now. But can we find adequate cover in the Jan market? It will be expensive but something has to be done.
December 19th, 2005 at 7:57 pm
Stag,
Yaya Toure is the answer…He is 6′ 4or 5″…Has speed and dribbling skills to take the ball thru the opposition defense..Has the stature of PV..perfect if not a better replacement since he has blazing speed too….Kolo does admit he is better than him and has encouraged AW to sign him…Supposedly Yaya practiced with us when he was with Beveren…His game has improved a lot and getting better…Heard rave reviews about the way he took on Real Madrid…Problem is he does not help us in CL but we need him to finish in the top4 EPL.
The other option is DIOP…Can’t see Essien muscling him off.
Rosicky is not the player we need right now.
December 19th, 2005 at 11:41 pm
Rick, if someone comes into your house with the intention of ‘rolling’ you, you bloody well better not leave the kids ‘home alone!’…..As Wenger looked on ‘through the window’ his kids got the sh*t kicked out of ‘em, if he wants to stop the bullys in future he needs to buy a ‘Rottie’….Now who’s the meanest bastard in town that’ll play ‘Bad Dog?’….See AD in local Islington corner shop. Wanted, one mean muvver f****** whose tackles snap legs and whose bite is worse than his bark. (football ability not required)
December 19th, 2005 at 11:50 pm
When things don’t go your way, you try to change and adapt. But Wenger insists on the same system and the same players. Either you change the system (in the short term) or the players (in the long term) or both (in a dire situation). But Wenger has done neither.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:50 am
Anyone we buy is going to be expensive. We’re desperate right now and every team is going to know that. With that knowledge they will charge us a ridiculous price for players, especially knowing that we have money.
It’s the price we’re forced to pay because instead of maintaining a strong team with smaller amounts of money, we allowed our team to weaken and now we’re desperate. Now we must pay large amounts of money to rebuild.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:50 am
In a World Cup year players are going to have one eye on the Cup before they make a move. I can’t see any CL cup-tied star moving in January. That rules out Ballack, who I’d love to see at Highbury. Probbaly Gravesen too. I’d love PBD (Diop), and as much as Coleman says 14M GBP, 10 may do the trick. What about this Portugese star, Maniche what has he been up to since he moved to Moscow?
As for Yaya his agent will probably ask him to wait after the WC. If Ivory Coast do well as I expect, with stars like Drogba, Kolo, Dindane, Yaya, Eboue etc., Yaya may not come cheap. I also like Marlon Harewood - I keep saying this we need a good old fashioned english striker in the Ian Wright mould. Its unbelievable how many goals players like Shearer popped in when you consider how much is lacking in his game. I think we need more width, and Hleb hopefully can provide that. At the back we could use some experience, but top notch defenders are hard to come by, and I don’t think what we have is that bad, except that need depth, not talking about Cygan type depth, but what top defender will come in to serve as back up? - and Wenger should start edging in Lauren’s replacement. For me the midfield and the lack of width are the biggest problems. I don?t think Quincy ? love the boy, fast skilful and strong - is quite there yet, with the maturity and experience we need, but it seems Wenger wants to start breaking him in this season, a good thing. Thing is we have all these kids, Hoyte, Eboue, but physically they’re just not there yet.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:01 am
Looks like we’re linked with this Ivory Coast star, Didier Zokora (ManU in the hunt too). The next Essien, or another Djemba-Djemba? Seems a good signing a enforcer type player, who can send Gilberto to the bench.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=+Didier+Zokora+%2C+arsenal
December 20th, 2005 at 1:15 am
I agree with Stag on this one Scotty. There’s no way you can blame Henry. This is all about business and looking out for your livelihood.
If you had a co-worker who was the absolute best in the business in what he did and your boss fired him to give someone from the mailroom a chance what would you think? How confident would you be in that company’s leadership?
In a nut shell it’s all Henry’s asking; what are the club doing? What direction are they going in? Before Vieira was sold, Henry was completely loyal. Are you going to blindly place your livelihood in the hands of a manager who just made what seems to be a horrible decision? Are you just going to abandon your manager?
Henry decided to wait instead of acting in haste one way or the other. He’s given the boss a chance to prove a point. Do you believe the boss has proven that point?
December 20th, 2005 at 1:17 am
Both of those guys are CL cup tied. Bad decision.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:19 am
Wenger actually brought him in for a try-out a few years ago. He couldn’t get a player visa for him because he didn’t have enough caps. I think he has enough now though.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:25 am
Rosicky’s not what Arsenal need. He’s another Fabregas. He’s too short and too light in the ass.
December 20th, 2005 at 2:50 am
2 seasons ago the team were at their peak - the kids were still kids and Pires, Ljungberg PV4 were all there at the right age the right time - well now Arsenal have come unfortunately at such a stage where the kids still need more time while the old guard are past their prime (occassional good games)….
I have been saying to get Diop - he impresses me almost every game with his running and willingness to disrupt the opposition side from playing…would be the perfect compliment to Cesc (lil and large combo)…
I do think we should start blending in Eboue more now as Lauren really does lack pace and even in FA Cup Final against Utd he was really found wanting. Against Chelsea he was outpaced and manouvered by both Robben and Cole.
I think Ashley Cole coming back will be almost like signing a new player for us which will certainly help as most goals have been shipped through that position in last 3 or 4 games….Arsenal have lost 5 or 6 games already but 5 of them have come after Cole was injured.
And for ambition sake how about trying to get Ballack!! Didier Zokora is a decent player but unproven much in the Vieira mould all those years ago. And I agree with some of you guys that one or two solid professionals never hurt anyone especially the check book…in previous years he use to have them such as Parlour, Remi Garde, Grimmandi etc….I suppose that is why AW got Cygan!!
December 20th, 2005 at 4:38 am
I think the first refusal rights only means that Everton can pick him up for hatever Real paid for him….as long as Gravesen wants to go back to Everton. Gravesen may just prefer to go to Man U or Arsenal.
December 20th, 2005 at 4:45 am
I think everyone knows that Ballack is not coming to Arsenal and if he was there is no way he is coming in January, he’ll sit it out at Bayern where he has a chance of winning the CL this season.
But I agree we deffo need a couple in January, regardless of whether they are cup tied or not - we need them to help us qualify for next year. So I, for one, think we should be avoiding Zokora/Diop..or any centre mid involved in the African Nations. We buy them in Jan, they settle for a few weeks and then bugger off to Africa and return knackered a minimum of 3 weeks later - in effect missing 2 months of the season.
December 20th, 2005 at 5:11 am
I don’t see the point in us signing any of the centre mids who will be off to the African Nations - Diop, Toure, Zokora, Ghaly. We buy them and then lose them to a training camp, the competition and they usually come back injured/knackered - so we’d lose them for about 6 weeks.
However, I don’t see the harm in going for players who are champions league cup tied. Yes playing Real Madrid is nice, but the most important this is qualifying for next year. Gravesen/De Jong/Maniche.
Rosicky - someone else mentioned that he’s another Fabregas - agreed, but the difference is 7 years experience. My own view is that Gilberto is suffering this year - as Vieira did last year - because of the massive responsibility he’s under. He can’t even hope that Edu/Vieira will recover from injury, he knows he’s got to play week in, week out and yes that is something Wenger should have addressed in summer - he did not, because he didn’t think the right quality was avaialble and we now find ourselves where we are, where taking lightweight, but experienced Rosicky seems like a good idea.
It’s a long shot, but I’d consider Sebastian Kehl from Dortmund. 6ft 3, 25, defensive midfielder, can also play left centre half, Dortmund want to build the team round him, but he’s into his last 6 months of contract. I’ve not seen too much, so to stereotype - he’s disciplined, strong and powerful, but not too rapid or too technical.
Failing that, Middlesboro have a player due back from injury on January 2nd…”Allo Steve, eet ees Arsene, give me Ray for 6 month and I give you Quincy on loan and sell you Bentley for ?3 in summer”!!
December 20th, 2005 at 6:38 am
Also for those of you who have read it, I don’t suppose you will, but I wouldn’t take too much from article in yesterday’s Times ‘Delay hit Arsenal’s ?260 financing’ which will no doubt be translated into Arsenal have no money for transfers because of the new stadium. It only fails to properly take into account the ?55m we receive from Nike in 2006 (part of a ?130m deal), the ?60m in cash reserves we reportedly have and the ?100m deal we signed with Emirates - apart from that, great.
Sloppy journalism in my opinion.
December 20th, 2005 at 8:11 am
one of the problem is speed.
our defender can’t chase up Robben,but Henry’s speed was not useful,that’s why?dense defend vs poor defend.we passed ball by ground infiltrate,they passed ball by long pass and got out of the “off side rule”then…i can say:Every Arsenal’s lost with Chelski is this reason,everytime
December 20th, 2005 at 8:15 am
Content from the Borussia Dortmund website, though it sounds more like a pi$$-take…particularly “his annihilating in the midfield led to a lack of goal traction”…I definitely want some midfield annihilating.
CAREER
Tomas Rosicky (nicknamed ?dumpling? because of his favourite dish: ?Bohemian dumplings?) ?s football passion must be congenital: his father was a famous player to Czechoslovakia. Rosicky himself followed up his father when changing to Prague after two years with CKD Kompensory.
Aged 17, he was assigned to Sparta?s first team winning the championship in 1999 and 2000 which paved his way to the Czech national team. Declared one of the most talented players throughout Europe, ?Football Mozart? Rosicky changed to Dortmund in 2001.
He was one of the main characters in Borussia?s championship and the UEFA-Cup final of 2002, that?s why he?s respected in Bundesliga and his home country where he was elected ?Footballer of the Year? in 2001 and 2002. Another very important role he had in EURO 2004 when the Czech Republic reached the semi final.
As one of Europe?s leading midfielders, Rosicky is permanently related to the top clubs which he meanwhile declares to be accustomed to. ?I did not have to change for playing more effective. I recognized the football had changed. If I didn?t had adapted to that, my national team career would have stopped?, the young star declares.
STRENGHTS
His technics and overview are declared ?unique?: he plays the ball with elegance and airiness paired with decisive passes in the right moment. His dribblings as ?ambitioned filigree worker? (kicker sports magazine) are a feast for the eyes, same as his determined, unadorned play. Former Czech national coach Josef Chovanec is sold on his sensational overview: ?Tomas has all the features a key player needs to have for international class?
SEASON REVIEW
Rosicky was one of the most successful strugglers in the league with 58 per cent duels won outflanked by Soldo and Owomoyela only, but his annihilating in the midfield led to a lack of goal traction. At least, Rosicky seemed to have improved his freshness: having scored one Bundesliga goal only in 2004, he had three of them in 2005?s first half. Six out of his eight scorer points he collected within the last ten matches. His goal in Hamburg was his first field goal abroad since three years.
December 20th, 2005 at 8:19 am
Content courtesy of the Borussia Dortmund website…he won less duels than Rosicky, but “low respect towards opponents provide him with international class”.
CAREER
Brilliant efforts in last season?s second legs matches paired with examplary behaviour have brought him an enormous reputation as never before since he joined BVB in early 2002. Flourishing on his position in front of the back four, Kehl stands for Borussia?s boost during this year. ?This is my feel-good position, so I pay much effort on it. Additionally, my coach trusts in me ? optimal conditions!?, the 25-year old says.
Kehl, born to a gastronomy family, changed from Borussia Fulda to Hanover 96?s talent factory when he was 16, an important step for his early assignment to the U21 national squad. Having switched to Freiburg SC, he easily managed to comply with Bundesliga and later on with the national team even. The following change to BVB brought him the national title and the vice-championship with Germany during the World Cup within the same year (2002).
The high-school graduate denies a personal counsellor but prefers his father?s advice instead. He?s interested in politics and likes reading, but permanently tries to keep an eye on what?s happening outside the world of football. Together with his team mate Christoph Metzelder, Kehl keeps on getting involved with the ?roterkeil.net? (red cotter)-project fighting against child prostitution. Due to this dedication, the two players and former ministrants were introduced to holy father pope John Paul II (+) in January 2005.
STRENGHTS
Sebastian Kehl is a role model representing effort and passion. He?s got a firm left foot and a brilliant timing in header duels. ?Sebastian is able to read a match?, sports director Michael Zorc says. The other qualities of the defensive midfielder are a constant overview and a feeling for a game?s development, but encourage remains his hallmark. Self-confidence and low respect towards opponents provide him with international class.
SEASON REVIEW
Kehl has been a permanent runner having spent 2,800 minutes on the pitch ? 32 season matches, no substitution (personal record). 620 duels (55 per cent won) as one of the most struggling Bundesliga midfielders became the top figure throughout the league; also two-thirds of his headers were successful. Other and above, Kehl scored four goals and performed five assists, four of them in the second legs. He?s a tough player anyway: Kehl committed most of Borussia?s fouls (84) but postponed a joint surgery to the summer break which means a severe holiday reducement. He?d like to return for the UI-Cup matches.
December 20th, 2005 at 8:31 am
I stand by what I said. We can all come to as many conclusions as we want on why we think Henry is doing what he’s doing. In the end he’s said much to indicate staying, and then he’s hanging this sword. Its a mindf*ck and reflective of why we can’t get it together out there.
At least say what you’re doing. He gets every other concession afforded him and all his weaknesses are ignored. The fault is in many places, but this is just immature in my opinion.
And Stag, drop the Vieira crap already. He wasn’t showing up. I think his leaving has hurt our perceived sense of resilience and confidence, but after all the summers, the lackluster performances…he’d probably be injured right now anyway. Wenger did him a FAVOR, that silly, lenient, manager. Probably knew he wanted to drop his book, too.
The club has been VERY good to Theirry. His hesitancy can be handled like a man, not by another dance with an agent. Haven’t we had enough of that already? A new stadium certainly screwed with negotiations, but that’s what you get when you’re successful and the transfer market’s been so lopsided and you’re part of a middle-sized club trying to keep up with some Russian phoney c*nts.
Bull that Wenger doesn’t buy world class. All BULL. If Henry leaves, our captain is jumping a sink he perceives to be sinking without having really done all he could to keep it afloat AND forgetting a few things about when he boarded. That ship has carried him many a time to some pretty great places. Say what you want about his rights, its as legit as his wanting to go off to Barca because he’s the greatest and deserves to win more. Just tell us the truth so we can judge YOUR performances, too. That’s all I’m asking.
You don’t prove points like this on the pitch when you’re the captain. We’ve forgiven him for so much we’ve all redefined what being a captain is to suit him. Wenger’s also to blame for this. If he wants to know what the club’s doing, grow up and ask. They’re ready to talk. In the end, none of us really knows what’s going down. But the effect of his stalemate, in my most humble opinion, is clearly evident. He’s blaming the bum for not getting up while standing on his back.
And wouldn’t you know it. Girlfriend got me a TH14 replica for my birthday. Go figure.
December 20th, 2005 at 8:33 am
But “selling” journalism. Papers aren’t fit for birdcages anymore.
December 20th, 2005 at 12:08 pm
You are wrong on Vieira, and VERY wrong on Henry. No two ways about it.
December 20th, 2005 at 1:35 pm
Well since you put it that way…