[Ed. note: Happy New Year everyone! Nothing like ringing in the new year on a positive, eh stag?]
Its over my friends. The Arsenal team we have come to know and love in the recent past is GONE. The current team is not in the same stratosphere, let alone on the same planet. After watching yet another lack-lustre performance, this time vs. an ordinary Aston Villa team… we can’t pretend or even hope any longer. They aren’t going to come around. There is no “we’re back”. It is OVER. The AWESOME ARSENAL FOOTBALL CLUB are no more. Not with this current team. Not happening.
Time to move on.
What exactly did it for me? What just caused me to come to this conclusion definitively?? Some of you lot have seen it much earlier, some still refuse to accept it. Well… Aston Villa. They are an ordinary bunch, are they not? They didn’t pack the box with 8 men and defend. They didn’t clog the midfield and wait around for an Arsenal error. They didn’t play “thug football” or even a physical style. They came and played football against us as if we were any other team. No fear, no worries, no real concerns. They showed up and played. They probably deserved the win more than we did, and created more decent chances. HOW?
Well… accept it, we aren’t that good.
Perhaps a number of players have started their slide (or continued it) this season, and we are no where close to the level of play in recent years, and strike fear into the heart of NO ONE.
Pires, Ljungberg, Bergkamp… they might offer moments of brilliance… but its less and less frequent. They can’t carry the load any more. They don’t have much of an impact on a match any more. THEY HAVE TO GO. We know Dennis is retiring at years end. Pires should not be offered a new contract. He’s been fantastic for us. But Wenger shouldn’t give him a new contract. If we can sell him in January, lets do it. Freddie? Much the same. Not the same impact. Not even close. If we can sell him in January, lets do it.
SOL? Well, he’s not close to “himself” either. But we are so weak at the back, we need him. He has to stay, but at year’s end. Move him.
OK… now on to the younger core group.
Many of you will not like this perspective, some will agree, some will not. NOT GOOD ENOUGH for our level we hope to attain.
Flamini, NO. Quincy, Not sure. Senderos, Not sure. Eboue, Not sure. Clichy, Not sure.
Hleb? I know he’s been injured. Its somewhat unfair to judge this soon as well… but again some folks think he’s excellent or will be. Based on what? What has he done. Not alot. I’d give him another season next year… but he’s exactly what we don’t need right now… more moves outside the box, dribbling thru 4 guys… trying to make the perfect pass, and not shooting nearly enough.
Reyes, if the price were right??? I’d sell him. He’s had decent form this year at times. But its time to move on. Cesc? OK folks… please tell me what exactly he has done this year. He has not been overly impressive in my opinion. There are a few folks that still fawn over him like he walks on water. He has not been that good. Sorry. He can NOT carry the midfield. Hasn’t all year. Won’t next year either. Its time to get a PROVEN MIDFIELDER to lead this team. Cesc can be a good complimentary player for the next few years. Leading the team from the middle is BEYOND him right now. Its not working. ADDRESS IT Arsene!
We have so many question marks all over the pitch its frightening. The scary part is the areas and players we don’t have a problem with are ALSO a big worry, because those players are possibly leaving. Ashley Cole, Thierry Henry.
Our only two stars. Both are linked to moves away in the Summer (or sooner).
Other than that… who is a star. Who would you definitely keep, who couldn’t be replaced?
Its all over. I’d say we totally miscalculated how much we needed a “Vieira type” in midfield… and that has helped hinder the season to no end. But we’d still have underperforming players like Bergy Pires Freddie Sol Cygan Reyes…
Time to make major changes.
Oh… yes… can’t really get too crazy… right? There is that little matter of making the Champion’s League next year… OR ELSE.
Not sure how you do it Arsene, but you’ve really got your hands full with these crucial decisions. I hope you don’t DO NOTHING. Thats what most of us fear. If that happens in January, nothing that is… I wouldn’t bet someone else’s money on us finishing top 4. After all, with performances like the 0-0 @ Villa… added to the rest of the season’s poor play… there is no “we’re back”… we’re DONE… is more likely.
39 Responses to “The Reign is OVER.”
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January 1st, 2006 at 11:40 am
THE ANSWER to the ABOVE PROBLEMS?:
I thought about this after I sent in this submission, and we COULD transform this team in the January transfer window, AND in the Summer. But it would take ARSENE and the board to acutally spend money on talented players.
The rumors are already flying about who is going where with the transfer window open. Hell… teams were anouncing transfers a few days ago! How does that work exactly?
IN: Patrick Vieira. There, I said it. Its an obvious rumor. We made a mistake, correct it.
If not, (don’t have a heart attack Mazza), then Diop or Gravesen or SOMEONE to fill that roll.
IN: Yaya Toure.
IN: Treblesi.
IN: Rosicky.
IN: a PROVEN Central Defender of NOTE and NAME.
OUT: Flamini, sorry… just don’t see it happening for him.
OUT: Freddie. Sorry, but his best days are behind him and he is not contributing.
OUT: Pires. Very sorry, because I like him, but he is not contributing enough to this team.
OUT: Cygan. NO explanations needed, just cut the losses.
IN SUMMER, make tough decisions on the likes of SOL CAMPBELL, and ASHLEY COLE.
It would give us at Left Back, Treblesi & Lauren (or Eboue)
It would give us at Right Back, Ashley Cole and Clichy (when he returns, and Lauren until he does)
Central Defense has Sendy Sol Toure and we need a proven player for when Kolo goes to the ANC.
Midfield: Vieira (or Gravesen?), Cesc, Gilberto, Y.Toure, Hleb, Rosicky, Reyes, Lauren could move up at times, Kolo could move up at times.
Strikers: well WITH Thierry Henry, I still think we are set. The strikers just need the midfield to provide them with some decent service. The midfield just needs the defense to provide them with an occasional decent outlet pass. I like RVP and Henry, and Reyes, and Lupoli / Quincy etc…
We can always address it in the Summer as well.
The future could BRIGHTEN QUICKLY with MOVES in THIS transfer window. But we have to usher OUT a few under performing players in the new year, and start fresh with some proven players going forward.
I don’t think ANY of it will happen. But if you want to see POSITIVE THOUGHTS… I think it COULD happen, and we could transform the team with the right moves very quickly.
It would DEFINITELY mean keeping Thierry Henry AND Ashley Cole. They are truly the ONLY stars on this team. Ash’s worth has been explained in his absence. So has Vieira’s.
Happy New Year!!!!!!!!
January 1st, 2006 at 11:44 am
obviously, I reversed the left and right back positions, forgive me!
January 1st, 2006 at 11:45 am
No dice!
Happy New Year you miserable git
January 1st, 2006 at 12:24 pm
Stag
Happy New Year.
I am afraid Wenger is not going to fulfill *all* your wishes. He believes the only viable way to compete with Chel$ki is to rely on youth. Which means we might kiss CL football next season and even become a mid-table team for the next 2 seasons while waiting for the younsters to mature and click together. He is going to find ways to get players like Campbell, Ljungberg, Gilberto & Pires to continue to play at their peak this season and next. He might sell Cole in summer to raise cash for new players for next season. But for this season, I think he will at most bring in 1 player to make up for the absence of Toure and Eboue. Cygan is not going anywhere because Wenger likes him and Cygan is prepared to play anyway in the team for Wenger - much to our chagrin.
But wait. I hear rumours that Vieira is homesick and wants to come back to Highbury. There is still hope in the new year albeit a weak one. We can only wish and dream……
January 1st, 2006 at 1:53 pm
In running any sports team there is an unspoken principle that you do what’s best for the team. Wenger has violated this princinple that he does what is best for his youngsters i.e. “I’m not going to buy someome to put ahead of Fabregas etc.”. Well this is what we get. Competetion for places brings out the best in everyone even the youngsters.
I think Wenger has mishandled the youth thing since day one, it’s been a rather confused policy to be honest. You have players brought in since the crib with Arsenal, then without a chance they get let go for others like Flamini with no claim to a stake. Then of course the more recent purchase for this Mexican guy, who wants to bet he’ll never make it anywhere close to our first team? As for Theo Walcott my advice to him is stay as far as possible from Neverland United the graveyvard of promising young players.
You only have to look at Ferguson to see how it is done Brown, Richardson, O’Shea, Fletcher, to say nothing of the the golden generation of Beckham, Scholes etc. Even Joe Cole, no spring chicken is thriving on the competition of Chelsea. Why can’t we strengthen like anyone else?
A sense of staleness and indifference permeates the whole team. A clear out is what we need right now before it is too late.
January 1st, 2006 at 2:37 pm
Yeah.. what do u all guys expect from Stag113.. most pessimistic so-called-gunner…
I know most of all the frequnters here expected such slime from such a slimy SOB.
Stag is a shame to gunner fans… probably started supporting arsenal in the unbeaten 03/04.. and got spoilt… If u wanna see your team will all weekends.. buy a blue shirt…
arsenl is not a team of a reign.. we are FOREVER…
So go home and cry to your mamma while the real fans keep hoping…
CHECK THIS OUT:
I really hope we can do the thuggery chelski have done all season and get 3 points they “dont deserve” (from the manchs)…
I concede, chelski have made history.. Won the EPL title by christmas. So we should beat the manchs.
My Prayer:
Bolton beats liverpool. (Goal Kick, head, head… header - goasl) x 3
Wigan Lose/draw to brum.
Mancity spunks spuds.
IF (CAPITAL I-F) we beat manchs.. this is what will happen:
This will open up the league.
The table will be thus:
2 Man Utd 44
3 Liverpool 40
4 Tottenham 37
5 Arsenal 36
(8 points behing manchs, 4 behind liverpool and 1 behind spuds, 1 ahead of wigan).
Manure have Mancity, and liverpool have spuds on jan 14… We may be 3rd placed before 15th Jan. We have boro at the bury… (2 home games back2back) then away to everton. (6 more points)
Whatchya think?? My weed gone stale??
-4Life
Life is a Joke. Soccer is Serious.
January 1st, 2006 at 3:23 pm
Time to move on? Jesus. I can’t believe this stuff gets through the mods.
Yeah sure we’ve missed Vieira’s presence. Yeah sure some players aren’t gelling yet. Yeah sure some of the old guard aren’t performing to the highest standards any more.
But just about all the playing and coaching staff agree that this is a TRANSITIONAL season. That means moving from ONE style of play and team, to ANOTHER style of play and team. So all your talk of ’sack him, sign him, re-sign him’ is just absolute nonsense.
People are so quick to presume that Arsene has lost the plot. As soon as we aren’t in title-winning form, the glory-hunters start banging their Vieira drums and blowing their ‘big signing required’ trumpets. I’m so sick of it. You are talking about the man who, on a fraction of their budget, wrested ManUtd’s dominance of the 90s away from them. A man who has unearthed amazing gems of players on a regular basis. A man who is committed to this club and its development into a major world player, using the only means he can in these Abramovich driven times - the development of youth players.
If you’re not prepared to stick around for a season or two while the plan comes to fruition - and I sincerely believe that Wenger is skilled enough to make it happen - then I should jump on the next bandwagon that passes mate and quit bleating in here. Try down the Fulham Road, they should provide you with everything you appear to want.
Loyalty to the club and its employees comes before trophies. Try and remember that.
January 1st, 2006 at 3:25 pm
Like Joe Cole some Arsenal players need more than 4 days off at Arsenal. Joe Cole has played his heart out this season but ?the special one? was not happy with his performance against B?ham and got him a 4-day ban. That is the difference between Chelsea and Arsenal. At Arsenal there are lots of players leaving in a comfort zone knowing whatever happens they will play in the next game.
But Stag I?m 100% with you here apart from bring PV back. That will be a huge sign of weakness and failure. We might as well bring back Tony Adams, Keown, Petit and Wrighty. I don?t think you want your ex back after years with another man. PV is gone and should be history. What Mr. Wenger has done to Arsenal is not acceptable. It was less than 2 seasons ago everyone was talking about Arsenal as the next big thing after Liverpool and United. Well that did not happen. Liverpool is coming back strong and building a strong team and we all knows about Chelsea. Don?t count United out, as they are now busy in the transfer market.
The problem with Arsenal is not the players but the manager. The manager selects the players and team not Chelsea, Liverpool or United. As I said last week Arsenal were downgrade by Wenger and on one else. Look at the experience and skilled players we have lost in the past 3/4 seasons and been replaced by who ?kids?. Wenger did not used kids for 4 seasons then from nowhere 7 kids in one season. I might be mad and sad but that doesn?t added up. Since we believe in stats Chelsea won the league with kids with an average age of 25.8 yrs compare to Arsenal 26.6 yrs.
Look at the 4 teams above us in the league. They are getting better and still buying players to strengthen their team and what is Arsenal doing?
Scotty the transfer market was destroyed in 1995 thanks to Bosman and before that so you couldn?t blame Chelsea for that. Players can refuse not to join another club if they want. Is all about demand/supply and more money. Everton/Fulham were after Hleb but could not afford the asking price. Do you blame Arsenal because Fulham could not afford a player they want?
January 1st, 2006 at 3:28 pm
Yes, perhaps your “weed gone stale”.
It is apparent you are on some sort of hallucinegenics. If you disagree with someone’s “negative” opinion, well they must not be REAL Arsenal supporters.
January 1st, 2006 at 3:32 pm
I don’t agree. Why should we sit around for a few years and wait? I am so SICK of you Wenger can do no wrong crew. He’s human.
He has MILLIONS in the bank allegedly, and its time to spend it.
I’m not supporting another team regardless of our results. But I sure as hell am NOT going just go with “Arsene knows” and believe everything is wonderful either. Thats lunacy.
You don’t have to “support” everything that the owners/manager do to support the team. Just like you don’t have to agree with things your leader or president do, to love your country.
January 1st, 2006 at 3:38 pm
Loyalty to the club and its employees comes before trophies. Try and remember that
I would have said Amen and thanks to that statement of yours 5/ 6 seasons or years back but footabll is about money now. The game has changed big time and changing fast. Asked Arsenal FC about that. They are more interested in property development.
If you believe that then we should bring back Keown and Parlour back because they have more loyalty to the club. It took the club a whole year to give DB10 a new contract and Pires wants a 2 yr contract.
So where is the loyalty there. Loyalty is not a one way street. Maybe the last game of the season will be free for all.
January 1st, 2006 at 3:42 pm
Neverland United.
Where is that
January 1st, 2006 at 5:05 pm
Neverland as in Michael Jackson’s Neverland ranch, a dangerous place for kids
January 1st, 2006 at 5:34 pm
“What Mr. Wenger has done to Arsenal is not acceptable.”
That surely wins top prize in the Utter Bollocks Statement Of The Year competition!!!
What Mr Wenger has done to Arsenal is nothing short of revolutionary! At every level of the club!
- Playing style changed from 1-0 wins and long ball football, to fluid attacking skill.
- A training ground that is the model for every club in the WORLD that needs to build a new one themselves.
- Player culture transformed from boozing and cards, to carefully controlled diets and fitness regimes.
- In eight full seasons: 2 semis, 1 losing final and 3 wins in the FA Cup; Five 2nd places and 3 title wins! And two of our three doubles.
- Brought a standard of player to Highbury that had never been seen before.
- A huge hand in the design of a breathtaking new stadium.
- Millions made through transfer dealings, crucial for the club at the time.
The guy is a total legend. So then a couple of years ago he makes a decision over the direction of the team, with the board’s backing, which is partly financial, partly pragmatic, partly revolutionary in its aims, and partly because he doesn’t have much alternative. Now that decision leaves us in 6th place at the beginning of 2006. And because of that, you Arsenal America types want him shot, all his planning reversed, and the team fashioned in the style of your choice? Right. Okay then.
Hang on guys - is that the phone? It must be David Dein wanting to talk to you homeboys and get some advice! Hurry now, he’ll be so grateful to you when you recommend he sacks the most successful manager in the club’s history because we’re lying in 6th place.
January 1st, 2006 at 5:40 pm
Like I’ve said before there’s one person primarily responsible for our demise; and it’s not any of the players. Quit your crying. Call a spade a spade. Wenger’s a fabulous coach but, like everyone else, he’s only as good as his last f*ck-up.
Since ‘95 when I began playing soccer and started following Arsenal they have been one of the best teams in the land. It’s shown by their place in the table. Are Arsenal are a top team this season? I believe their true value will show by their place in the table like it always has. Top 4, we’ll have to wait and see.
The passed two games Lauren’s been our best player. He’s the only one that looks vintage Arsenal. Jose has flashes as does Bergkamp. Henry’s playing with a broke wheel. Lehmann’s been very solid. Hleb holds the ball too long. Lauren’s the only one that looks the part.
I read a rumor a month or so ago that AC Milan are sure that they will sign Ralph for next season as this is Cafu’s last. Imagine both Brazilian world-class fullbacks being replaced by Arsenal’s fullbacks. I’ve not heard concerns expressed about losing Lauren but if we do, I’m afraid I won’t recognize this team. If he leaves, I hope we don’t miss him.
I hope Wenger knows something that I don’t. Whether he does or not, time will tell. Time always tells.
January 1st, 2006 at 5:55 pm
No one is saying sack Wenger. He’s the best in the business. We’ll let time determine his legacy and the legitamacy of his decisions. Retrospect is 20/20.
See, we don’t want him shot, we just want him to pull his head out of his arse; that is unless he’s got a glass belly-button. With a glass belly button he can occasionally look out and see what’s going on.
January 1st, 2006 at 5:58 pm
Oh, OK… I get it.
No matter what Arsene Wenger does, no matter where we finish this season or next or the year after that… no matter if our best players leave, and if the players he brings in don’t work out… he can do nothing wrong, and heaven forbid we say anything wrong about him!
He can’t be fired ever? Regardless of results?
Is that the deal.
January 1st, 2006 at 6:44 pm
Happy new year to everyone.
Stag, I appreciate your sentiments, but your suggested changes are hypocritical, and at best nonsensical.
You keep saying Wenger needs experience, top quality players, then you suggest Ya Ya Toure. What’s he ever done? Another kid who may or may not make it - just because his brother is good, doesn’t mean he is.
Then you mention Trabelsi, of whom your knowledge extends to the fact that you can’t even spell his name right. But I agree, he’s a decent player.
Then you mention Rosicky, who is more like Hleb than Vieira - very attack minded, will not offer defensive protection.
Forget about Vieira. Why would Wenger agree to sell him and then try to get him back? It’s never going to happen. First, because it would be an admission of failure on Wenger’s part, and there’s no way his ego will allow that sort of humiliation. And secong, the problem wasn;t getting rid of Vieira, it was not REPLACING him. We would be no nearer winning the title with Vieira in the squad.
January 1st, 2006 at 6:57 pm
95-96, think we finished 5th under Bruce Rioch, just made it to the last spot of UEFA Cup.
And the season before? We finished 12th.
Wenger arrived on October during the 96-97 season, and we finished 3rd.
Prior to that, we qualified for European Chamions League for a total ZERO time. European Cup twice I think, defeated at the second round under GG.
Since 97-98, we finished second or above for EIGHT successive seasons, under the SAME manager. I think it’s an ALL TIME record in English football history.
Your impression that Arsenal are always one of the best teams around got a lot to thank to Arsene Wenger himself. Because prior to his first full season in charge, we had gone through SEVEN season without a League championship title, and surely not by finishing second everytime neither.
AW never called himself a great coach, never called him SPECIAL, despite spending lesser money than clubs like Newcastle, Liverpool, Spurs over years and achieved what he had achieved. ALL HE HAS BEEN ASKING RIGHT NOW IS JUST TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE PATIENT to his team.
A LITTLE BIT MORE PATIENT, that’s what the manager who had worked so hard, and achieved so much for us for the past decade. Is it too much to ask for?
January 1st, 2006 at 6:59 pm
it’s my comment above.
January 1st, 2006 at 7:06 pm
Oh its a spelling contest now?
We wanted Trabelsi or Treblesi or whatever you want to call him… you know who I speak of… we have wanted him for a while.
We need to transform the team Danny.
We don’t need ALL proven talent that are stars.
If we brought back Vieria, or Gravesen or Diop or someone in that mold, then Yaya Toure could come in and be part of the rotation system that needs to be in place. Competition for places.
I don’t think Cesc should be shouldering the load, and he shouldn’t be handed 38 starts in the prem. without battling for a place.
Rosicky and Hleb / for / Pires and Ljungberg…
I like the system we played / attempt to play, the parts just aren’t capable of continuing the success.
I’ve seen Rosicky for the last few years on Fox… He’s very good. So NO…
I don’t want Rosicky to replace Vieira.
He’d be for Freddie or Pires.
Toure, so top flight teams and players are all over his talent… but he’s not worth taking a shot on. ??
Seems like if the tops teams are interested, and we have his brother, we’d have the inside track.
Didier Drogba said he was the next PV4… and that he’d be great for Chelsea.
We most CERTAINLY would be closer to the top of the league with Vieira than with what we currently have. That is a 100% MORTAL LOCK OF THE DAY.
And that means we be MUCH MUCH liklier to be in the top 4.
Thats the goal. TOP 4.
January 1st, 2006 at 7:07 pm
Danny, agree with mostly u said.
only want to add one thing, i don’t think the problem is not by REPLACING Vieira, it’s that WHO to replace him?
like u said, the above players stag mentioned frankly i never watched anyone of them played, and i doubt too many of us did.
lot of names being mentioned i bet most we only know them from what we read from the papers.
bottom line is if they are really that good, u bet Real Madrid or Chelsea would have already gone in for them. Real Madrid in parituclar, if they still can’t properly replace the loss of makelele, with all the money they got, what’s our chance of finding a proper replacement for Vieira?
the talent in this particular area are rare at this moment of time, I bet that’s why Juve were willing to pay 13 millions for a 29-yr-old at the first place.
our budget are restricted, so if we spend, we gotta make sure we spend it right, rather than kicking ourselves with another misfit and end up with someone like Gilberto. Then we might as well save our cash.
January 1st, 2006 at 7:09 pm
Don’t call me homeboy cuz I’m not your home boy. Don’t even behave like a tough man if you can’t answer simple questions.
1. You started by talking about Loyalty but got know clue about loyalty.
2. Don’t accused someone to win cheap points if you don’t have any solutions or facts to backup your fiction.
3.Tony Adams & Ian Wright including many ex players are legends so should we allow back to help us then.
4. You still living in the past my friend. At the end of the day Wenger is the manager and he takes the blame.
5. I bet you one of those guys who can’t wait to blame everyone else apart the one in charge. My bad it’s Chelseas’ fault we are soo **AYE CARUMBA**(censored).
6. I guess the media and most United fans including the general loving football fans were wrong then giving SAF the most successful manager in the league a hard time after his team got out of Europe.
If you gonna come here and talk about football pls try some facts not emotion and fiction. No one in their right mind is saying Wenger is a bad manager but he is responsible. If you can’t deal with those facts there is no point debating with you.
January 1st, 2006 at 7:29 pm
I know it’s yours Andez,
But second best means nothing in football. Remember almost a year ago we were talking about how football had changed due to the money and media interest.
Putting all that aside I don’t think anyone is saying sack Wenger or he is a bad manager but he is responsible for turning a wicked team to I can’t be bothered team at the moment.
The Fact is everyone who knows about football thought Arsenal were the next best thing but the sad fact is Wenger did not invest in his team. We did not replaced players like any other team when they were on top. Yes we have 7 yrs of some good football but as one ex player said Wenger build his team around the best back 5 and since they left with a couple of other guys Arsenal under Wenger have been found out.
Now Chelsea and Liverpool are all in our face not just United and is showing how good we are.
January 1st, 2006 at 7:42 pm
I’ve to laugh but know what you getting at. I guess I have to be careless before others take it the wrong way.
I really love Wenger too.
January 1st, 2006 at 9:41 pm
to be honest being negative and griping and moaning is half the life of a lielong fan. we should be able to gripe and moan and whinge like the worst of ‘em, yet remain the loyalist of supporters. it’s like a marriage, except you are more open about the griping times…
January 1st, 2006 at 9:46 pm
i can’ tell you in truth whether stag does or not, or if he is a part time or new fan, i am only on this website when i can be, in between work trips and so on, but…
to be honest being negative and griping and moaning is half the life of a lielong fan. we should be able to gripe and moan and whinge like the worst of ‘em, yet remain the loyalist of supporters. it’s like a marriage, except you are more open about the griping times…
we may disagree with strong opinions. personally i believe in wenger like a godsend of a father at a hard time (bruce rioch boys? how many of you remember those days of less than a decade ago?). but i also know i screamor groan at some of his ‘too early” substitutions to save a game, or ever playing someone like cygan (if this was a regular business, someone would wonder what friggin’ cygan had seen him doing), or the excuses or growth of hardiness or spirit he brags on, that sometimes is, and is NOT there.
but you live, die, laugh, cry by these boys. let the hard times be as real as the good times, and watch every game, in person or telly, that you can. mine’s a guinness…
January 1st, 2006 at 10:05 pm
Why bash Gilberto? Because he can’t CARRY Cesc?
When Gilberto was out for a prolonged period, we realized how important he was to the team.
He is being asked to CARRY midfield now, and he isn’t capable of doing so. He is a very good player. He plays for the BEST NATIONAL TEAM IN THE WORLD. If he is good enough for them, surely he can play for Arsenal.
Haven’t seen much of Yaya Toure, but I know that the top teams in the world are very high on him. I have indeed READ that. Read it from more than a couple of star players too. With his brother on our team, we have the better chance of signing him.
I am NOT asking him to carry midfield either, he’d be complimentary… and be part of a rotation that has to exist in the team.
Juve were willing to pay 14 million for Vieira, because he’s one of the best midfielders in the world. Its pretty simple. Take a look at our midfield since he left… a shambles. Say what you will about his last few years, but he was far far far better than anything we have right now.
Why save the cash? Is it in YOUR bank account? If we are going to save the cash, instead of spending it, perhaps they should lower ticket prices until they SPEND the cash.
January 2nd, 2006 at 12:24 am
Gilberto is *NOT* first choice for Brazil anymore. Emerson and Ze Roberto are. He was first choice in WC2002 only because Emerson got injured. And we all know how “good” the quality of opposition was in that World Cup. I won’t get carried away by those credentials.
January 2nd, 2006 at 1:55 am
Stag your being a bit over dramatic - yes reign is over for now but Arsenal will be back…Utd have not won any title for what will be 3 years in a row and have been knocked out but they came through their crisis. So will Arsenal.
Its not really a crisis I would say, at the moment the priority is for us to be in any champions league spot whether 1st 2nd 3rd or 4th. Once that happens then we can look at next year once the season starts and see who AW has bought in and if then he has done nothing and sticks with the current players then we are in a spot of trouble and you may even see AW moved up to Board level and Arsenal hunt for a new coach.
But AW has earned respect and time from us fans and lets give him that. As for the players moving in and out I agree with most of your opinions.
More than defence our priority should be midfield then attack and then defence I feel. Cole will be back and once Clichy comesback we will be covered in their position, CB we have Senderos covering for Toure/Sol and Cygan (unfortunately) covering for Senderos as secondary cover. Eboue is covering for Lauren although I think he is ready to start now…
One thing also that I dont understand is that if Lupoli is banging in goals for fun at reserve level and AW trusts in the youngsters than give him that chance as he will be more than willing to be the fox in the box….
Pires and Ljungberg are done I believe - they have given Arsenal great service and deserve our respect as legends at the club. Same with Bergkamp. Time to replace and move on with them also…..
January 2nd, 2006 at 5:53 am
And Arsenal are not Brazil either.
January 2nd, 2006 at 6:21 am
Que sara, sara.
We can moan about the team as much as we like, write pages of specualtion whether we have money to spend or not. But guess what? nothing we say or do makes a damn difference to what will actually happen.
I believe in our leader, but it does not stop me being concerned about the FUTURE. Yes, this is a transitional season, some FANS on here cannot and will not accept that, but it happens to all TEAMS at some point. What is more important is that the CLUB continues. And if you don’t think that is the case, just ask the fans of Cambridge Utd who still follow their team though they play in non-league football.
The Arsenal will always be a great CLUB and we’ve been very fortunate to witness the football since AW arrived, but as I’ve said before, nothing lasts for ever, enjoy it while you can. This TEAM still has a lot going for it and it will come good again.
A result against ManUre and everything will be rosey, wait and see.
The one thing that really concerns me as how can AW continue choosing Cygan? No one can convince me he is the only alternative for Clichy and Cole.
I remember when a young lad called Ashley made his debut because of injuries to senior players and has been there ever since.
Happy NewYear to you all.
KEEP THE FAITH
January 2nd, 2006 at 9:18 am
Gil plays defensive midfield, a skill position that’s very important to teams that play a certain style. Makelele, Dunga, and Deschamps also play/played this position. I don’t think Gilberto was even capped before Emerson was injured. Big Phil went out and FOUND someone that could play this skill position. Kudos to big Phil.
We’ve seen what happens to teams that lose their defensive mid with no adequate replacement. Ask Real Madrid since they sold Makelele or France after Deschamps retired. They’ve both tried to cut and paste with other “better” players. Look at Arsenal last year; strong team, yes; invincible, no. Beckham and Gravesen both failed to get it done as well as Vieira in the last World Cup.
These were all management failures where Big Phil excelled. Even though it’s not a glory position it’s very important and you’ve got to respect that skill position. Whether you think Gil is very good or not he’s a very important part to a puzzle that won a world championship and went unbeaten for 49 games. Emerson can play that skill postion too and look at Juventus. Love it or hate it but respect it.
January 2nd, 2006 at 12:25 pm
I don’t think we are that bad, Stag…
1 Defensive midfielder, 1 striker and 1 Centre Back would fix everything….The thing that pisses me off is AW had Stephen Appiah and Edgar Davids available at the beginning of the season…They would have been perfect replacements temporarily till the kids grew up…Stephen Appiah was offered as part of the Viera deal and he went on to have some awesome matches in the CL.
Clichy is great in my opinion…Reyes and Eboue will be great players in a couple of years…Don’t forget their ages.. they are still young..
But we need experience and strong bodies in the meantime.
January 2nd, 2006 at 12:27 pm
but I do agree that Arsenal is living in the past and future, but nothing to show in the present…Pires, Freddie and Bergy are done. Sol is in his last legs…
I think AW has a grandpa syndrome…He likes youth versus grown up men.
January 2nd, 2006 at 3:36 pm
Gilberto is a very useful squad player, but no more than that. Edu & Vieira are both far better players - they can do what Gilberto did and a lot more. I don’t think we’ll be seeing Gilberto in the first team at the World Cup, not anymore. But I think Arsenal should keep him.
January 2nd, 2006 at 3:38 pm
It’s true that it wouldn’t take that much to fix Arsenal and put them back on the map. Just 3 top players right through the spine of the team - no under 21s.
At the moment it’s balanced on a precipe. Either Wenger buys the players now before it’s too late - or it will all crumble to pieces and become unretrievable. Wenger has to see that.
January 2nd, 2006 at 8:27 pm
“Don’t even behave like a tough man if you can’t answer simple questions.” - You haven’t asked me any questions, and I don’t actually recall behaving like a tough man. I do recall taking the piss out of your fine observation about ‘what Wenger has done to Arsenal’ though.
“1. You started by talking about Loyalty but got know clue about loyalty.” - wtf is that based on? How would you know whether I’ve got ‘know’ (sic) loyalty or otherwise? Is it loyalty to criticise Wenger when success doesn’t come as ‘easily’ as we’ve been blessed to have it lately then? Answer me that.
“2. Don’t accused someone to win cheap points if you don’t have any solutions or facts to backup your fiction.” - Well that’s funny, because I thought I listed 7 or 8 facts as to why I give Wenger my full support. Maybe I imagined it. And I had no interest in scoring cheap points over you, trust me. It was more incredulity over some of your statements that motivated my post.
“4. You still living in the past my friend. At the end of the day Wenger is the manager and he takes the blame.” - What does ‘living in the past’ mean in the context of this discussion please? And yes Wenger takes the blame - for what though? For being in sixth place in January with an up-and-coming young team? Okay, fine, I’ll blame him for that.
“5. I bet you one of those guys who can’t wait to blame everyone else apart the one in charge.” - Heh heh, that sounds like emotion to me there mate, not facts. The fact is, I’ve supported Arsenal since 1984, from the age of 10, and to me, the success of the last few years is quite incredible considering our resources. So in truth I don’t see a need to BLAME anyone for anything. We have leaped ahead as a club in a way no-one would have thought possible. And if you think I’m going to slag off the guy who has achieved most of this, think again my friend. But you carry on, it’s up to you how you express your support of Arsenal Football Club.
“No one in their right mind is saying Wenger is a bad manager but he is responsible.” - Again, responsible for what? Responsible for us being in the relegation places? Nope. For selling all our best players, not just the ones who had wanted to leave for two or three years previously and who weren’t performing anywhere near as well as they can? Nope. Responsible for bringing no success or progress to this club? Erm, nope! Your whole argument, and the argument that everyone else moaning about AW right now, is based on the fact that we probably won’t win the league this year. I’m as disappointed as anyone when substitutions don’t make sense, when Jos? gets needlessly omitted from the lineup in good form, when signings don’t materialise. But you, stag, and others, seem to think you REALLY know better than AW about how to manage the club, and that the guy should never feel under pressure or make a mistake. I get the distinct impression that if things don’t buck up shortly, you’ll stop supporting Arsenal. Maybe I’m wrong, sorry if I am, but that’s honestly how you come across.
I’m quite happy to continue this debate with you, just for the record.
January 3rd, 2006 at 6:04 pm
We saw Vieira try and play that position in the last World Cup and he was absolutely horrible. Does that mean he’s not as good a player as Gilberto? Of course not. Vieira was playing out of position because he’s not a defensive midfielder.
It just goes to show you can’t simply cut and paste certain players unless they’re efficient in a certain skill. But I can’t explain how that same central midfield pairing won the double in ‘98 and looked lost in the World Cup four years later. Perhaps Vieira’s evolved and needs to go back to the basics if he’s going to play that position.