First, I will like to say that I’m not British and I dont live in the UK, though I have lived there before…and in everyday life i’m actually anglophobic (me being more of a francophile).
Now, while we go scouting the world for young guns (no pun intended), I think AW should spend that little more time searching for cheap (undiscovered) English talent…if they are from London - great, if from north london - super!
I am not bashing the foreign legion they are great and this world is a meritocracy - but the club in general (or AW) should try to increase the English numbers in the club. If there is a Cesc, we should bid for him and try to take him, same for an Eboue, a RvP, a Hleb, a Rosicky, a Kolo…..and ofcourse people like Henry, Pires and Bergie. These people have technical qualities English lads dont have. The few Brits who have are way too expensive.
Now I don’t want to go into individuals but let me just give some examples: Cygan, Flamini, Adebayor and especially Song. Flamini is no more than a glorified husstler! Hardworking and committed. But this is the strength of the average English lad - can’t we rather bring back our own Sidwell instead or some other. Cygan, I just don’t understand, we can as well just have Keown or some other oldie still playing for us.
Song is even worse and I dont see why he should be here ahead of some hopefuls in the 2nd team the first place. I would rather that Lauren is moved to CM so that Gilbert can be Eboue’s understudy next season.
My point is that Arsenal should continue taking foreign kids and veterans only if they are very talented and offer something that cant easily be found on the isles….they shouldnt just offer hardwork or commitment. AND if the kid is not exceptional he shouldnt be here in front of an homegrown!
A lot of people here on this site underestimate the value of having homegrown lads coming in through the ranks from time to time. You need to live in the UK to really understand what I mean. I don’t feel comfortable with constantly being viewed as a “foreign legion”. We don’t get much love from the average fans of other clubs or from the media…not because they choose to pick on us or that they really dislike us….its more subconscious… they just can’t feel too much for us.
Anyway, away from that. It is very true that Brits have overinflated prices and are sometimes overhyped….but there are always exceptions….
Paul Robinson and Carrick went to Sp_rs for less than 2 million each. And there are also quite a number of others similar good deals. And i’m not talking about turning our team too much….just 3 or 4 or 5 out of the matchday 16…rather than the present 2!
The main reason AW doens’t like a lot of english kids is their lack of adequate technical ability.
But the main strength of the english player is their hardwork, grit and forceful play!
Of the talents at Lampard, all the coaches said he was one of the least talented technically. But after years of extra personal training, look at him now. He is by far the best out of that West ham bunch.
And this is where I think Arsenal can profit. We can get some guy (who has no hype on him) but who AW can see has the right attitude and has the typical “English qualities”…bring him to arsenal on the cheap, install them as 4th or 5th choice….put them on a 2 or 3 year contracts…and then give them the technical training (of which we are the best in the land). One might just come out a Lampard or a Gerrard.
Or a new Ljunberg or a new Cole or a new Sol or Kolo…or the new Rooney. All this even though they might not have shown too much promise in the very early days. A added plus, they will have lion hearts, they can’t be bullied up north, etc. If we can get just 2 or 3 in 5, 6 years, that will be a great return. And it will offer us benefits.
Another point: recently Luis van Gaal the coach of the legendary Ajax team (that I once wrote an article on) was asked to comment about the striking similarities between our young attacking team and Ajax 1995.
And the guy basically dismissed us and said even though there are similarities, Ajax 1995 was a dutch team while Arsenal has no national identity. He then goes on the harp on the importance of “national identity”. I was quite hurt to hear this.
Also recently Cruyff was speaking to some newspaper. And he said similar things.
This makes me fear that despite what we have achieved we might not be appreciated so much - not only by Brits but also by international analysts and veterans because we don’t have our own Terrys, Lampards, Gerrards, or young guns coming through etc.
So in conclusion and after all this ranting…I am saying we should bring in the cream of the foreign kids…but we should open a small gateway for upcoming Lampards, Gerards and Rooneys at this club….and if there are some established and quality England internationals available on the cheap or with expiring contracts there is no harm in snapping them up…if they will fit into our system.
The former Real boss called his recruitment policy Pavons and Zidanes….we should call ours Coles, Cescs and Henrys!
Homegrown, Talented foreign kid, Massive veteran!
41 Responses to “A case for the young English”
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May 30th, 2006 at 9:09 am
VALUE for the MONEY.
Thats all that really matters.
If Andy Johnson goes for 8.5 Million, and we get Rosicky for less than that…
why the hell would we go for an overpriced British player?? The kids get stifled in our system because they can’t push through… and then Wenger gets bashed because he allegedly doesn’t like English players??
His ONLY effort should be to put the best team he can onto the field for the Arsenal Football Club.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:32 am
“So in conclusion and after all this ranting…I am saying we should bring in the cream of the foreign kids…but we should open a small gateway for upcoming Lampards, Gerards and Rooneys at this club…”
Apart from Lampard, who became a great player few seasons ago, you are saying we should open a small gateway for the upcoming Gerrards and Rooneys. But that’s impossible, because Gerrard and Rooney were great players in the early days of their careers, and the whole world would know about them, so it will be difficult to get them.
I agree with you that we need more English players in our squad, but Wenger has his own way of working and we should all support him in what he is doing.
Besides, Wenger has already signed the upcoming Rooney in the form of Theo Walcott, so if there is a great english talent Wenger will go for him. He did that with Upson, Pennent… but if they don’t progress like Wenger think they should, they will be sold.
If you ask me, this summer I would go for two English players, Curtis Davies from WBA and Joey Barton from City.
I regard Davies above Senderos, and Barton is a better player than Flamini, so they can be a very good additions to our squad, but Wenger knows…
May 30th, 2006 at 9:47 am
I understand what you meant Fred. I always love English players’ bulldog spirit, and started supporting Arsenal when there was virtually a whole squad of English players.
Problem is - if any English player shows a sign of talent, his value would soar rocket high. Andrew Johnson, for example, will cost Everton 8 millions. Peter Crouch? 7 millions. Dean Ashton? 7 millions.
No disrespect to the aforementioned players, but u could easily get a better player from Europe with much lesser $$.
The Cygan situation is very simple, I don’t know why ppl keep failing to see it. They said it was a mistake to let Upson go. But the thing is - had him stayed, would u trust him to be a starter? If not, how would we expect an up and coming central half to just settle and warming the bench? Cygan, on the other hand, is willing to stay on the bench.
Cygan is never a great player. But as a third choice central half, I’ll settle for that. When we judge Cygan, we shouldn’t judge him like other first choice players. This is a player he’s our 3rd choice and willing to sit on the bench to offer us cover when needed. We could do a lot worse than him.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:51 am
Completely agree with Stag. Flamini may be not much more than a poor Ray Parlour in some people’s eyes, but he did only cost us ?500k and came with UEFA Cup final experience. Not only that, but he filled in without complaint at left back, talking only of the team. Compare the attitude of Clichy and Flamini to Bentley and Pennant and you get the picture. Add to that, the fact that we cannot recruit english youngsters unless they live within some predefined travel time of the stadium, so we compete for the same english youngsters with every other London club.
Also name any player who fits this bill?
“if there are some established and quality England internationals available on the cheap or with expiring contracts there is no harm in snapping them up…if they will fit into our system.”
May 30th, 2006 at 10:28 am
hey stag, u are more than correct….we shouldnt pay inflated prices for ppl like Johnson……BUT pls read my article…..i said we should get some under-hyped talent….and try to see if we can polish him into a star here. if we cant then hes got a quality education and we send him on his way.
next, we shouldnt pay 8 mill for johnson……..but carrick was available for 2 million the same year we got flamini.
im not bashing flamini or song…its just that they are not exceptional, we can use sidwell there or promote some youth from our ranks.
lastly, have u ever lived in the UK or in north london?? the excitement on the streets, in the schools and in the pubs is just unbelievable when a local lad breaks through.
the situation is undescribable and does not really exist in american sports so its quite hard to convey.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:33 am
u are right.
ok, not gerard or rooney……but lampards!
my only point really is we shouldnt overpay and we shouldnt buy foreign kids who are not exceptional. thats all really.
and yeah, we got ppl like upson and pennant, but we are in the same london as sp*rs and westham we should be snapping up the likes of ledley kings, reo cokers and aaron lennons before them….we are afterall a bigger club.
i agree with u on davies and barton!
May 30th, 2006 at 10:36 am
am not saying we should buy established like crouch and johnson….am saying snapping up unheralded and unhyped.
we should be getting the likes of ledley king and reo coker and aaron lennon before west ham and spurs.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:43 am
Young English players generally don’t have the work ethic or attitude that Wenger seeks.
So F*** them. Go and play for Birmingham or Norwich.
And we can’t pay ?27m for Rooneys of this world yet (and why bother?).
And **AYE CARUMBA**(censored) who does and doesn’t appreciate us, we’re ARSENAL and WE DON’T CARE
May 30th, 2006 at 10:44 am
no we had to pay an extra 1 mill for him after marseille complained to the courts.
but in the same year, carrick and robinson were available for less than 2m.
im not saying that we should go gung-ho about english lads……i really dont love the english that much…..but we should get those promising young london lads before spurs, west ham, etc. we are much bigger than both of them. even some that are not so promising at a very young age, but have the right attitude and have something else….we can then give them the technical education and see if when polished they can become a “lampard”…
am basically saying giving such london lads a chance is better than giving Song a contract.
i dont know of any expiring contracts right now (apart from beckham!!!) but joey bartons contract has only one year left….and reports have it he could be available for less than 2.
)
i would also rate an owen hargreaves over a flamini (in CM anyway, not in LB
May 30th, 2006 at 10:57 am
So what I really was trying to get at is that we shouldnt go out BUYING english … they are TOO expensive…..BUT we should develop some…take advantage of the grit or bulldog spirit and try to impart the technical aspect on them….lets see if after some polishing they become a lampard (who was a late developer).
the point is that we should get future ledley kings, reo cokers, joe coles and carricks before our LOCAL rivals. we are the biggest club in the area…we should swallow the talented kids coming through ;-).
and some english do have a very good attitude….a shining example is Gerrard, Caragher, and quite a lot more.
and to the unconvinced, u need to have lived in london for a while to really appreciate. the excitement and the buzz when gilbert played just a few games was just unbelievable….even among school kids!!
and lets face it, the fans on the ground in north london are arsenals most important fans….not becos their passion is much more than ours but becos they live arsenal and cant “escape” arsenal………unlike us who are quite far away….and who might have our own local teams….or other loves apart from football.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:19 am
I see your points, Fred, and I do believe Wenger’s had his eye on the likes of Ashton, Reo-Coker, SWP and probably any player from any country that looks to have the stuff. But if he’s having success with a young kid from an African nation who is gives 100% with an unspoiled attitude and no drunk driving record, why look back?
If you listen to an interview with Kolo Toure, and then one with Rio Ferdinand, its a lot easier to understand where Wenger is coming from. Heart, desire to improve and talent without the bullsh*t. That’s what we want, and presumably, what Theo has.
I think the World Cup is going to open the eyes of what, as Stag says, Value for Money really means.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:54 am
Fred, never lived in the UK…
but I can understand where U are coming from…
but if they are good enough, folks KNOW It… like Rooney.
That over inflates their cost… Carrick? I don’t think he’d be playing… Flamini only played LB because the 1st 5 choices were injured!
May 30th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
and… I predict that Yaya will shine and open a lot of eyes to him, and his value will SKYROCKET.
May 30th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
I consider Hargreaves and Flamini bascially the same player, except one is at a club with stadium financing to consider and is on about ?10k, the other is at Bayern Munich (and is mostly a versatile squad member) on ?45k a week. As it turns out, Flamini cost us…..$480,000, so even less than I thought.
Fair enough Carrick is playing ok at the moment, but it took him a long time to settle at Spurs and if he was at our club, he’d have been behind Vieira, Silva, Fabregas…Fabregas is the one that Wenger wanted to give playing time and he’s been proven correct. So Carrick wouldn’t have played much and I’d be surprised if he represented a good partner for either Silva or Fabregas even now. Robinson, we did miss the boat on that one, but maybe the boss had his fingers burned by Richard Wright, whatever it is, Wenger does not have the best record of picking goalkeepers.
London lads - under the FA system, in effect we have to have them in the Arsenal system from age 14 at the very latest. The attrition rate for players from 14-17 is massive and very few players make it from any club, so while it would be nice, it’s not particularly realistic. If we managed one youth/reserve team player into the first team squad every year that’d be amazing regardless of where they come from. for the likes of Lampard, West Ham practically control the whole of Essex and Essex schools, very difficult for us to break that ground. Even then, is Lampard really a great technical player? He’s an artisan not an artist.
Song - a tough one to defend, especially as Larsson looks the better player. I don’t know what to think on Song, but I’d be surprised if we offered him a permanent deal.
Joey Barton? He did look decent against us, but do we want a player who stubs out cigars in youth team players eyeballs, do we want a player, who when under a warning about his conduct, gets bladdered on the club pre-season tour and has a fight with a member of the public and then his own team mate?
May 30th, 2006 at 1:33 pm
I think it’s a catch 22 situation.
Good players cost a lot. Eg., Owen, Rooney, Walcott, etc.
Other players will not agree to sit on the bench. Eg., Pennant, Bentley, Upson, etc.
But some signings have baffled me.
Why Adebayor over Ashton for 7m? Not that I don’t like Ade or that he hasn’t done well. But Wenger had publicly stated his liking of Ashton.
Why Reyes over SWP for 17m? I am sure SWP could have been got for 17m before Chelsea stepped in.
Why not Rooney for 23m when Reyes cost 17m? Rooney was a proven talent when ManU signed him, Reyes was not.
May 30th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
Song getting a chance ahead of Seb Larsson is another example (though Larsson is not British).
May 30th, 2006 at 3:09 pm
Well said Fred. I understand some of your points and Stag I do understand where you coming from but pls folks when is all these England and English bashing going to stop.
Maybe someone forget to tell me the open season for English bashing. I read the silly article about If Bobby was English Crap and most of the articles below.
If Bobby had a problem with the English or England in general I guess he would have gone back home. The English media is part of the football culture. I don’t call myself English but British but getting piss off with some of the comments and posts of late.
Maybe people with brains should know and understand that there is a different culture in England compare to France or Spain. Why should the English change just to pleased someone. Most folks here have never kicked a ball before but so fast to come up with some fantasy ideas about what is wrong with the English youth or players.
British players have always being expensive and the culture of British football is not going to change just to keep Mr Wenger or Mourinho happy.
As DB10 once said you have to understand the English mentality to understand the football culture. And recently the best player on planet earth said, I enjoy playing in England, the way the people see the game and can’t see myself leaving Arsenal.
Because 2 or 3 players drink too much doesn’t mean all the other players are alcoholic. If I believe in the BNP, I will think black folks are all lazy and depend on government hand-outs. Don’t paint all the people and playrs with the same brush.
Ignorance goes hand-in-hand with hatred and fear.
May 30th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
I don’t tie in to the stereotypes much LoveG…
But reality is …. British players are OVERPRICED, and Wenger just isn’t going to overpay for them, because they’re name is Smith (instead of Smittee’)
For me… seeing the likes or Rosicky going for less than Andy Johnson says a lot.
There are many good English players and youngsters… but maybe Chelsea can afford to pay over the top for them. We can’t. Wenger won’t. Most teams CAN’T.
May 30th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Reyes over SWP. Well, Reyes is a much better player for a start ;-), but regardless of playing ability, from a purely financial point of view, when an english club buys from an english club, fa rules dictate that half the cash must be paid up front and the remainder one year later. However, when an english club buys from a ‘foreign’ team the payments can be made structured in any number of ways, but generally they are spread over the course of the contract. These kind if things help when you have a cash flow situation caused by a new stadium.
In terms of the Reyes deal, it is also structured with performance clauses, we’d practically have to win the EPL, CL and Grand National 2 years running to have to pay the full ?17m. Widely reported we paid ?8.5 up front with the majority of the remainder dependent on perfomance.
Adebayor vs Ashton, well Ade is the better player, but he signed on a 5 year deal for ?7m, so we pay ?1.4 a year in transfer fee, whereas West Ham paid ?3.5m up front and ?3.5 next year. Discount for the present value and there’s a ?500k difference.
Equate to Rooney situation, etc and there’s a big cash flow difference in buying from abroad…
May 30th, 2006 at 3:38 pm
I understand that Stag. Most English players are very overpriced and over-rated and that is always the case in England but is the way the debate is going which troubles me.
British players have always been overpriced since I start playing and watching almost 25 yrs ago.
May 30th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
LoveG, I don’t think English players have always been overpriced. ‘Cos before the Bosman, EU, EPL, SKY era, most English clubs were playing English players, or Irish, Welsh, Scots. Not too many foreign players playing in England. There was no comparison in terms of their price tag.
The money GG paid for Seaman and Wright, probably our most expensive signings under Graham weren’t exactly that much ‘cos I remember those days a guy named Lentini cost Milan 15 mil in Series A. While big Dave and Wrightly probably cost around 2 mil if i remember it right. It’s still big money at that time, but it’s nothing compared to Series A.
When Glenn Hoddle, argueably one of the best English players at that time, moved to Monaco, he cost Wenger around 2.5 mil. Though he’s already in his late 20s, when we compare it to Beckham’s move to Real Madrid around the same age (23 mil), it was, again, nothing.
The over-priced trend seems to start after the introduction of the Premiership. With more and more overseas players coming to the Premiership, for whatever reasons i don’t know it actually pushed the market for English talent even higher.
Personally, i can only assumed it’s because of the massive media cover of the English game today. It really blow everything out of proption. A player who scored a few goals suddenly get hailed as the next Shearer, next Owen or whoever else.
let’s face it, a lot of ppl do judge a player by a single or few games.
The classic example i remember is Kelvin Davies (currently Bolton), he played well in a FA Cup semi for Chesterfield against Middlesbrough. The next season? Blackburn Rovers bought him for 7 mil. About the same amount we paid for Dennis Bergkamp. Crazy.
May 30th, 2006 at 4:18 pm
well, if England do WELL in the World Cup, their prices will sky rocket even HIGHER!
When Yaya Toure has a good World Cup, his price will go thru the roof…
Thats why it can be “good business” to sign someone BEFORE the World Cup… rather than after…. but there is always the chance of injury.
I think Rosicky is already injured!
May 30th, 2006 at 4:37 pm
I’m with you there Andez. You know I will say this but you can’t compare the good old days of GG - the late 70’s to early 90’s to these modern day crap of cheats and money making players. I still go to games but football is not what it used to be.
Also that is why I keep saying we should give the kids a case to grow up and not to hype them up after 10 games or a season. I have seen so many players we called the next Ian Wright, DB10, Henry, Seaman or Adams but after one season or 2 we never heard of them again.
Yes the English game is becoming like Series A in the 90’s but sooner or later like Series A sometime will happen. High wages and all these dirty deals will come to an end. That is why I don’t envy Chelsea. When you create a monster you have to lived with that monster. PL is all about money and the clubs don’t care about the fans.
The problem with the English game is greed. I like watching sky sports on a Sunday afternoon or Mid Week evening but guess what since the formation of the PL, football had become a game of money and more money.
No player is worth more than 10 million unless you are Henry or Ronaldinho. The price tag is worthless and pointless to be honest these days. Is how much they earn a week that really counts.
Sol joined us on a free transfer but guess what he did earn more than Henry and Pires in 2002/3/4.
May 30th, 2006 at 4:49 pm
Yeap!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rosicky is injured and Wallcot is on for England. The youngest player to play for England and guess what the papers will be saying later if he manner to score a goal.
Is good business to sign players before the world cup. Scoring a goal in the world cup means your price tag get double.
If Ghana wins the world cup all the black star players will worth 20 million each or over. Such is life.
May 30th, 2006 at 4:54 pm
i agree loveG. u know, sometimes i think we are so used to seeing the multi millions price tag that we start to get used to it. But if we take a step back, 10 millions for instance, is a WHOLE LOT of money. Does any individual really worths that much money just because he knows how to kick a ball?
but what i really miss from the game, particular Arsenal, is the FIGHTING SPIRIT. It’s gone.
At the past i took pleasure when i watching Arsenal pulling off the trademark one-nil-down, two-one up. And I took great pride from it, ‘cos my club NEVER GIVES UP.
If anything i think AW has not been doing a good job, it’s he failed to inject that kind of spirit into the Arsenal team, despite repeating praising his side got “character”.
Tell u the truth, whenever our team is down by one goal in a game, I was ready to concede defeat. And rarely did i see us turning things around had we trailed in a game. While at the past if we were 1-0, or 2-0 down, I never worried. ‘Cos I knew Tony, Dixon, Keown, Rocky the likes would never accept conceding defeat without giving a fight.
I don’t expect us to come from behind and win everytime, but I expect my team to NEVER GOING DOWN WITHOUT A FIGHT.
Perhaps with a few more English players there, things may be different. But looking around the current English players, how many of them actually still got this soft of traditional English bulldog spirit? That’s why i always like Ashley Cole, regardless of what he done outside the pitch, I always see the HEART in him. The rest, Bentley, Pennant the likes, I weren’t sad when seeing them go. ‘Cos i surely can’t see the same quality in them.
the sad thing is, we were too lucky to have a bunch of model professionals at the past, the old back 5, Rocky, Thomas, Richardson the likes, they seems to take personal pride in every win or defeat. Now, I have a feeling, many and many more players are start to take the game like “it’s just a game”.
May 30th, 2006 at 5:06 pm
oh come on….hargreaves isnt on 45k a week!!!
we payed 480 k as you said…but a year later we had to fork out an extra one million for flamini….i remember this!
it took carrick a year to settle at spurs…the same time it takes AW to blood in new players….and carrick earns 20 k a week. anyway, he’s a much, much better player than flamini.
you are right about barton….i’m just giving him as an example.
lampard an artisan???!!! oh please….he is far better and more consistent than any of our CMs! and he provides at least 15 goals a season and countless assists! beside a protective CM like Gilberto he is massive !!!
May 30th, 2006 at 5:15 pm
Now, I have a feeling, many and many more players are start to take the game like “it’s just a game”. Very TRUE.
Apart from Cole and Henry I don’t see anyone else with pride playing of Asenal. The rest of the guys see it like just another game. Sometimes that is why I wish for some balance meaning good English players with grit, passion and some hard core old english bull dog spirit.
Now you wonder why sometimes I got soo piss off when we lost some games. There is no team spirit at times, luck of passion and pride. I learn football the hard way with the Crazy Dons.
The boys did well in Paris but I remember on my way home to London one said maybe with a bit of the old fight spirit you never know what would have happen.
May 30th, 2006 at 5:31 pm
yeah, and with this talk of spirit….
i’ll like to add that i wish we had some players who were thoroughly arsenal….u know, the way u look at ppl like fowler and caragher and see liverpool in them straight away.
even after fowler was sold he still kept making that 4-2 sign (later 5-2) at man u fans….i wish we could have someone similar for us. someone like sheringham (yes, that bas tard) who even when he has left the club will willingly miss a penalty for us!). someone who is not just a player but an hardcore fan!
the last player we had like this is Keown. and he proved it by coming back to sort out our defence.
when u see gerrard bombing down the field chasing a lost ball, u can see its not just skill or ability fueling him……a lot of it is the passion!
May 30th, 2006 at 5:51 pm
I don’t think it is fair to say that today’s Gunners don’t share that same fighting spirit. We faced a lot of adversity this year, but the way we finished thoroughly impressed me. There were several instances where we battled to come from behind - Henry’s goal against Totts, Gilberto’s goal against Bolton, etc. I firmly believe that players like Kolo, Senderos, Cesc, and most visibly, Henry suffer every loss just as much as Adams, keown and company did. Even Lehman demonstrated a passion this season that I did not know existed.
There was a low point this season where many Gooners felt as though this team had given up. However, I personally felt that it had more to do with the team being a little lost. We were without our longtime leader and central playmaker, had been decimated by injuries, and were relying on several teenagers to fill in. But if you look at how we pushed on I think you would have to say that the team showed some great character. From my perspective, this season has been one of the more enjoyable to watch despite our relatively poor win-loss record, and that is wholly down to the effort put in by the players.
I would also add that of all the people who have walked Highbury’s halls throughout the years there is one man who has arguably invested more of himself into the Club than any other, Arsene Wenger. Wenger could coach anywhere in the world, any club or national team, but he chooses to stay and continue building the future of AFC. His dedication and commitment in an era of professional sports where the word “loyalty” is usually referred to as the punch line in a joke has been more than admirable.
May 30th, 2006 at 6:21 pm
Hargreaves really is on ?45k a week at Bayern.
I googled the Flamini transfer and we originally got him on a free, then Marseille went to CAS for arbitration after UEFA ruled the transfer ok and we then paid the $480,000.
Carrick is better player than Flamini, fair enough and that’s why he now wants ?50k a week from Spuds.
Lampard is an artisan, he has a very defined role, which he does consistently well, but watch the passes he makes in games, he’s practically robotic. He scores goals, but then Makalele does most of the defensive work (and a lot of clever passing to create space), while Essien provides the dynamism.
May 30th, 2006 at 6:23 pm
strangely enough, both fowler and carragher are evertonians.
May 30th, 2006 at 6:33 pm
I don’t think it correct or fair to make the assertion that somehow the Club are overlooking or ignoring English talent. If you look at the reserve and youth ranks you will see plenty of young English players, some of whom come very highly rated - Connelly, Gilbert, Hoyte, Smith, Garry, etc. There is also the small matter of us paying possibly as much as $12MM for 16-year-old Theo Walcott.
Wenger is simply trying to put together the best team possible and it just so happens that the way things have worked out ? for talent, attitude, economic, logistical, or whatever reasons - the club has only had a few English players factor in recent years. But, I guarantee you that AW hopes just as much as any other gooner that Walcott turns out to be the next great icon of the game and starts every match for Arsenal for the next 15 years.
I would add that Barcelona and Arsenal started the CL final with four Spainards and two Englishman, respectively. However, there is little doubt that the Arsenal vs. Barca matchup was the contest that most of the footballing world wanted to see, because they are the two most dynamic and exciting teams in the world right now. I would argue that both clubs are doing exactly what they need to be doing and I wouldn?t ask them to change a thing. Van Gaal, Cruyff, and every paper in England can comment or judge all they want.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:54 pm
haha! fowler joined the liverpool youth setup from everton at age ELEVEN!!! caragher at age TWELVE !!!
surely, u can’t hold them as evertonians at such an age. They are pure liverpool to me and to everyone else really!
only everton fans continue to harp on their pre-puberty links!
everton has (had) a better youth setup than liverpool so they get all the under 11s and under 13s…..most of the successful ones however drift to liverpool (rooney excepted)
and that is precisely what we should be doing in london….let spurs, west ham and co have them pre-puberty….then we snap the talented ones once they reach 13, 14…..we should dominate the london youth market.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:22 pm
Sure English players.
As for me I have a European Passport that allows me to work anywhere I can get a job in Europe, same for English born players. What’s the issue.
Unless we want to change the European labour laws, I don’t see what’s wrong with a player coming from anywhere in Europe to play in England.
I’m Dutch and football is cultivated as a sport by our society, thus so many good Dutch players. As a Canadian we produce a lot of great hockey players, it’s part of our culture.
England produces some great players but in the open market they are over priced in England and wouldn’t fetch that kinda of cash in many other countries. I can’t blame Wenger for resisting those kind of wage contracts. If I buy a Mercedes car in Germany and find out the same car sells for thousands cheaper across the border in Holland, I’d be pissed to and probably buy it in Holland. Why pay more for a car than it’s worth or a player for that matter, English, Dutch, French or otherwise.
Yes I’m all for the Academy development and that indeed is where the focus should be. First team though that’s something else all together.
May 31st, 2006 at 1:39 am
I was not aware of this interesting 50% rule. But I must say that if Arsenal were to follow this policy, we would never sign a British player, because there will always be a non-British player available for around the same price.
One must also consider the benefits. We might pay a little extra up front, but the player will be British and will have league experience. Foreigners need time to adapt and some (like Reyes and possibly RvP) are still struggling after two years.
May 31st, 2006 at 5:45 am
todays arseblog reports that we might have just made a 15 million euro bid for Yaya Toure!
while i am all for bringing yaya here…….i think the price involved is UTTERLY ridiculous….so whats the point buying foreign if they are going to be this expensive for unproven and defensive talent !!! he is not even the best Ivoirian CM…..Zokora is!
and i can name at least 5 english CMs who would come cheaper than this. and there are probably 20 young foreign kids who will come for cheaper than this as well.
i like that we are looking at toure….but 15 million is quite much !
May 31st, 2006 at 10:42 am
We do get these knds of players - you can see that by looking at the reserve and youth squads. Where we seem to miss out is in having these kids make it to the first team. That I can’t explain, other than they aren’t up to standard when it comes to decision time.
May 31st, 2006 at 11:24 am
You might eat those words after watching him in the World Cup!
Let him show you what he can do in a BIG tournament v. world class talent…
and…
what is 15 Million Euro?
8 Million GBP?
Thats still less that Andy Johnson…
I’d LOVE to see that come to fruition…
I have GOOD VIBES on Yaya…
and…
he’d be the 2ND target on my WISH LIST that Wenger bought… (I called Rosicky about 2 days prior to us signing him!)
yayaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
May 31st, 2006 at 12:54 pm
stag stop this irrational talk…ur starting to sound like ballack4arsenal!
1) 15 million euros = 10.5 million pounds !!!! (more than what we got for vieira!
2) stop this andy johnson comparisons! the likes of andy johnson and dean ashton are strikers! and attacking players all over the world are always more expensive than defensive players!
3) at least everton knows that johnson can do it in the premiership…yaya has only done it in the MIGHTY league of greece……and you were slating Diarra recently becos he plays “just” in the french league therefore he isn’t proven….where is the consistency in your argument then!
4) the main benefit of kolo was his extremely cheap price….if we had bought kolo for 10 million we wouldn’t be looking at him as so great let me tell you.
if we pay more then 3 mill for yaya, i will be quite upset….that is a waste of money….
for 15 million we can: get back Vieira AND get 2 or 3 other african, english and european kids in….
May 31st, 2006 at 1:25 pm
There’s three things you have to understand about English players. First, they’re ridiculously overpriced, and Arsenal are not in a position where they can throw good money down the drain on players.
Second, grass roots football in this country is a joke, which is unusual considering the sheer amount of football played by youngsters. There is nowhere for them to go train, and the quality of coaches is appalling, so they don’t get decent technique coaching at any age let alone an early age. If you look at all the great English players, nearly all of them have natural talent, Beckham, Rooney, Gascoigne, etc. Apart from these world class individuals, the majority of English players have sub-standard technique and are barely capable of even keeping possession for more than 5 seconds.
Third, you have to look at the culture. The English culture is to make as much money for as little work as possible. All English kids are interested in is the fame, they don’t want to put the hard work in and practise their trade like youths from other countries pride themselves - most young people would rather be drinking down the pub, smoking weed or playing video games than go out and do anything athletic. Some have good natural ability, the Bentleys, Pennants etc. but they are very few and far between and just end up being lazy, brainless show-offs.
By the time Wenger gets his hands on a young Englidh player they’re usually soiled goods from a mental perspective.
Walcott looks like he has the natural ability to take him all the way, kids like him are 1 in a million.
May 31st, 2006 at 9:05 pm
i didn’t say lets buy english……..doesn’t anybody actually read the post…..i’m saying lets get the best youth in london….before the spurs and west ham….AND lets give those youth a chance over non-exceptional people like flamini and song ……that is basically the summary of what i’m saying…….so this continous talk of overpriced players is tiring!
your other paragraphs i just can understand……yes lets generalize all english players…..becos we have got the short end on ppl like pennant, therefore ppl like scholes, gerrard, neville and 100s of other straight-up english footballers are all irresponsible alcoholics……way to tar everyone with the same brush there danny.
i’ll refer u to L_Gs comment above.