Given our shortfalls in central defense and defensive midfield, I’m perplexed about the season long loans of Kerrea Gilbert and Fabrice Muamba. As I understand it, Gilbert can play both central defense and fullback. He played a useful role during our defensive crisis last season and showed a lot of promise. He’s less experienced than Djourou but seems quicker and more advanced than Joe O?Cearuill. Hence, I can’t understand the shipping out of a guy who could be our current #4 in central defense.
Muamba has been impressive in the friendlies. He’s smaller than Song but evidently a much better passer and dribbler. I’m nervous with Song as #2 in DM!
I have less problem with loaning Seb Larsson. We’re full of attacking midfielders at the moment.
I’m guessing that Arsene still values these guys and thinks they’ll advance faster with regular PT, but we’re taking a very big chance, I think. Just an injury away from some very raw youngsters going in the thick of it. Can anyone shed light on these seemingly strange moves?
Thanks
50 Responses to “Bad risk loans?”
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July 29th, 2006 at 5:05 pm
Come on, these two are simply not ready for first team football, Gilbert might be a short-term solution if Eboue gets injured but Lauren will be back soonish so it’s no surprise to see Gilbert farmed out.
As for Muamba, he’s behind Gilberto, Flamini - after Xmas Diaby, and arguably Song - who I think is a better player right now.
Neither of these players are ready for the first team and wouldn’t get a look in anyway, so might as well give them experience elsewhere - Wenger needs to buy 2 top quality players for these positions… end of.
July 29th, 2006 at 5:06 pm
Obviously Wenger believes that they are not good enough yet to play any starting / sub role at Arsenal! Hopefully he has a backup plan!!
July 29th, 2006 at 5:42 pm
I’m not certain but I believe we reserve the right to re-call loan players in the event of an emergency. If that’s the case I say send them on loan to gain valuable experience. Wenger will do everything to avoid re-calling players as that player and the loan manager need to be focused on that team.
When a player is good enough to play but has several players in front of him, you send him out on loan and hope the experience he gains makes him better than alteast one of the few in your squad. If he’s not good enough, management must decide whether to keep him or not.
Wenger won’t loan someone and leave us with no cover. When we loaned Cole we had Silvinho/Winterburn; Pennant, we had Ljunberg/Wiltord; Hoyte, we had Lauren/Eboue/Gilbert; etc. They were all good enough to play. When Cole came back he moved everybody to the bench. Pennant came back and, unfortunately, was injured every time Freddie was (so unlucky) then he shot himself in the foot with the alcohol.
Wenger normally doesn’t loan out the foreign kids though as while on loan they just need to focus on football and not cultural differences. Very smart player management. Aliadiere and Larsson were exceptions. Perhaps their personalities made them exceptional. But I don’t believe any of Wenger’s loans are bad risk.
July 29th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
Don’t you dare question the Arsenal.
Thats crazy.
We’re so solid its Kra-zee.
Gotta be 38-0-0 this year.
Keep the faith and Rock On.
July 29th, 2006 at 6:23 pm
I dont think it is right to compare Gilbert with Djourou, as Gilbert is a right back while Djourou is Center Defender, Gilbert is too short to play in the middle and he didn’t play before in that position as far as I can remember, Djourou can play in Gilbert position if we were forced to and he is not slow in any way, while Gilbert cant cover for him in the Center.
Muamba have a big potential but still needs a lot of experience, while song has some experience from his time at Arsenal and maybe a little in France.
Larsson is out to shine so we can sell him for a better price.
Wenger did very well in these loan deals, as for Gilbert case he will be the third choice behind Eboue and Lauren, so what a better way for him to mature than to play every week through the loan spell in the first division.
Also we have Hoyote fighting for a place, he is good defensively but lacking a lot offensively, I rate Hoyote in the same way I rate Flamini, a good utility player who could never take a regular place in the first team.
I think this is Lauren’s last year with Arsenal before his contract is expired and I don’t think Wenger will renew it, as with the new Stadium we will need speedy players on the wings and Lauren isn’t one anymore, so he sends Gilbert out to get the necessary experience to be ready for next season to challenge Eboue for his place, so that way we will be covered on both wings next season.
The same could apply for Muamba whose loan maybe extended if he impresses and the two clubs are interested in extending the deal one more season.
Surely one impressive season in the first division and one in the Primer league if they are promoted will make him ready for our first team when he comes back.
You could say he may benefit more than Song If he played every match, and their coach seems to be so impressed by him.
The loan spells may in general in Arsenal’s case mean that the player won’t come back to Arsenal except the ones that shine’s a lot and steals the headlines.
They must fight for their lives in the first division to impress the coaches of the clubs that they are loaned to and Wenger who will be waiting for good reports on them.
They must keep their head down and do their best in every match, if they did that and they are good enough then Wenger will welcome them back for sure.
As you can see in Pennant, Bentely, Smith cases they didn’t use their time on loan the best way that they should, they didn’t produce the goods every week so they failed to live up to Wenger’s expectation and got shipped away.
So finger are crossed that Gilbert and Muamba will have a better and more productive loan spells then the others that have failed.
July 29th, 2006 at 7:31 pm
Lauren, Eboue, Hoyte, Djourou and Toure in an emergency would play ahead of Gilbert at right-back. Toure, Senderos, Djourou, Cygan, Hoyte, Gilberto and probably Connolly would play ahead of him at centre-back.
Gilberto, Fabregas, Flamini, Diaby, Song, Rosicky and Lauren in an emergency would all play ahead of Muamba for a central midfield role.
Better to send them out on loan for experience.
July 29th, 2006 at 11:48 pm
My observation is that Wenger doesn’t send players he has signed (especially from other countries) on loan. Pennant and Volz were exceptions. Players like Toure, Senderos, Djourou, Eboue, Song, Walcott, etc. didn’t break into the first team immediately, but haven’t/won’t go on loan. Aliadiere did go on loan but only after suffering multiple injuries. What about Lupoli? Has he ever gone on loan?
Another reason is that some players (Song, Eboue, etc.) may not mind playing for the reserves. Others (Bentley, Pennant, Hoyte, etc.) may not agree. They would rather play somewhere else than in the reserves.
About Gilbert, he is a right back and behind Lauren, Eboue and Hoyte. I didn’t know he can play centre back, but there he is behind Toure, Senderos, Cygan, Djourou, Hoyte and maybe Connolly.
About Muamba, however good he might have been in the very few games we have seen him, I doubt he would displace Flamini as #2 in CDM. That leaves him competing with Song until Diaby returns. And now both the observations I have mentioned above kick in. AW will not send Song on loan and Muamba might want to play regularly.
July 30th, 2006 at 1:52 am
Is he staying? Is he going? Not sure. Read that Arsenal will not accept less than 30 million pounds. In a way, that is good as that money could be useful considering the loss he will be and also how Chelsea went about trying to get him.
But the bad thing is other clubs might pump their prices up when Arsenal would come looking for a player (as if that ain’t happenning already), so Arsenal will be forced to overspend on someone or most likely no one else will be bought in place. Look at the price for Carrick. I mean Ruud went for less than Carrick & Rosicky was more than half in price paid for Carrick. I remember similar price comparisons made when Liverpool paid their money for Crouch which seemed crazy last time around. But messed up price market really. More about how much someone can get away with asking than what a player is really worth.
July 30th, 2006 at 4:03 am
Sadly that was not funny… and yes you got to keep the faith in what you have just in case you dont buy .. and not moan after every draw/loss …
July 30th, 2006 at 6:14 am
Carrick cost more than Kolo, Eboue, Djourou, Senderos, Clichy, Flamini, van Persie all added up together.
July 30th, 2006 at 6:30 am
stop bitc*ing like a kid would ya stag133?
July 30th, 2006 at 6:32 am
you can also add in there: Lehmann and Fabregas.
July 30th, 2006 at 9:28 am
Cole is in talks with Chelsea… so it looks like he will leave. Going to our biggest rival and 2 time defending league champion.
IDIOTIC move. We are helping to improve the leagues best team, by selling them one of our best players.
Reyes wants OUT.
He is saying he wants to play for Real Madrid, has never settled in London… and always wanted to play for a big Spanish club.
So he’s looking to exit.
I’d say sell them both. But I don’t think we’ll bring anyone in to replace them, so its not a good thing.
If we allegedly have money, and we aren’t buying anyway, then more money isn’t going to help.
30 Million for Ash. Thats a laugh.
Reyes… I’d rather a player in return, because money would just go into someones pocket.
July 30th, 2006 at 10:05 am
Jesus Stag, what the hell u r talking about?
Selling Reyes means the “money will go into someone’s pocket”????? Which SOMEONE you are referring to?
An “IDOIT MOVE to sell Cole to our biggest rival”? Do u think we want to sell him?
Do u know WHY Cole signed a contract extension with us last season? Appearancely he had a verbal agreement with the club to sell him for 16 millions if there would to be an offer come along. If the club refused at that time, he would not have signed.
The INTENTION behind all that? It’s because Cole wanted to keep the fans on his side for ANOTHER YEAR (last season) so no one would boo him.
In other word: he’s been conning the fans for believing him still wanted to be a Gunner. The truth is from the moment he had that talk behind the club’s back with Chelsea he’s planning to move to Chelsea anyway. It’s only a matter of time.
Instead of condemning the GUILTY PARTIES, you are blaming Wenger, and Arsenal AGAIN here. It’s just so damn RIDACULOUS.
Did u here anybody else been linked to Cole apart from Chelsea? It’s only ONE club he would eventually end up to be. Yes, the club can hold out and not to sell him. But what good would it make? Comes the next season as his contract is running down Chelsea could get him half price.
As far as i’m concerned, Arsenal HAS NO CHOICE but to sell him NOW, and sell him QUICK. Chelsea and Cole are not in a hurry, they know if they can’t sell him this year, next year they will get him even cheaper.
July 30th, 2006 at 10:09 am
why are u talking randomly again….
its not like ANY other club is interested in getting him…Real are not interested - capello wont’ pay 16 million for a left back and nobody else would.
if a player of cole’s stature wants to go to a particular club - he can generate enough publicity/pressure or whatever to force his way. cole wants to go to chelsea and theres nothing we can do about it….do u think barca wanted to sell figo to real in 2000 ??
so stop talking like an ignorant person.
left back is not a match deciding position and if we can get 30 million POUNDS for a leftback, thats good.
July 30th, 2006 at 10:30 am
Your assessment of Pennant and Bentley on their loan spells is unfair. Pennant went to a bad team and was one of their best players. Along with Alan Smith, Aaron Lennon and Mark Viduka, Pennant was arguably their best player.
When Pennant returned from loan he had moved into the first team ahead of Wiltord but everytime he had a chance with Freddie’s injuries Pennant had injuries also. Whenever Jermanine was fit, so was Freddie. It was the most unlucky thing I’ve ever seen. In his time at Birmingham he proved to be their best player there so it wasn’t down to quality but judgement with alcohol.
Bentley was injured during most of his loan spell at Norwich but before that he looked very good at times. He came back and allowed his judgement talking against the club to seal his fate at Arsenal. I still believe we should have tried to get Pedersen in part of that deal in January. People jumped on my case saying we had too many left-footed players but Pedersen’s very much a righty (saw an interview on Sky); he just happens to have the best left foot at Blackburn so they play him there. Pires is a righty also. We didn’t move for him then so whatever.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:25 am
Reyes has issued a statement on Arsenal.com that he does not want to leave. I always find this funny. First, you read articles saying that he wants to leave. Some time later, you find an “official” statement saying that it’s not true. There is no smoke without a fire. Even if Reyes wants to leave, will Wenger allow him? Will Capello buy him?
July 30th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
Any relation to that Spanish winger, Wile E. Coyote? Is this Justacio Hoyote?
July 30th, 2006 at 12:26 pm
I read that Ze Roberto is apparently out of contract at Bayern Munich– he is still a top quality midfielder and has won year after year at both Leverkusen and Munich– if he is available on a Bosman, why are we not interested– I’d rather see him come in than Owen Hargreaves (as little chance as there is of that)… in fact, I am baffled why more teams aren’t chasing Roberto, unless they all figure he is bound to resign with BM… maybe the report I read (that Roberto is a free agent) is wrong?
July 30th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
And Reyes has come out immediately to deflect rumours that he wants to leave. At least wait 48 hours before opening your bird brain mouth and going berserk about unsubstantiated rumours.
July 30th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
We have no choice?
How about not selling him.
Why not sell Henry to Chelsea as well… We could probably get 50 Million for him.
July 30th, 2006 at 3:00 pm
Surely there is a better team to sell him to than Chelsea. How about Real Madrid? They’re big on splashing out for big names. I think we should sell Cole - he’s turned into quite a twit - but I don’t think we should sell him to Chelsea and make our biggest rival even better. Ideally, I think it would be great if we could sell him to some backwater league (like Turkey, Russia or MLS). I know, I know - it will never happen, but a guy can dream can’t he?
July 30th, 2006 at 4:01 pm
stag, do you follow football AT ALL…
if a player of cole’s stature WANTS TO GO to a particular club he will go there…end of!
if real madrid was interested then arsenal has the power….but no sane coach is going to pay 16 mill for a LB…not even madrid….cappello is reported to be interested in abidal for 5 mill instead……we have no power.
we are not like chelsea, we can’t make him sit. he is too big and will cause to much furore and negative spirit in the dressing room.
now i ask you again do u think barca wanted to sell figo to madrid in 2000? in these kind of situations with such a high-profile player, the player has all the power.
as for your final line….it is sooo ——– it doesnt even deserve a response…
July 30th, 2006 at 7:41 pm
Just like you can’t just decide to buy a player you want without a lot of talking, agreeing to personal terms, adjudging a player’s actual desire to play for you, etc., you can’t just call up a club and decide for them to take a player. This isn’t fantasy football.
Arsenal will do best to offload Cole and get the most for him. One team wants him. There’s nothing more to say about it other than - and I hate to admit this - Wenger will do everything he can to keep him, even if it means making a fraction of the money next season because the little chav c*nt has nothing between his greedy little ears.
One thing remains true in all of this, and stag may be frothing at the mouth to attack Wenger about it, but our manager’s been let down big time by quite a few players recently. Are the Arsenal that bad, or do they give young athletes with too much power and too little class too much rope to hang themselves?
Ask Dennis Bergkamp. And, surprisingly, Sol Campbell.
July 30th, 2006 at 7:42 pm
When it comes to the Spanish press, they’re geniuses at making smoke without fire: its called hot air.
July 31st, 2006 at 1:09 am
Good one.
But let me ask one question -
If Real come calling for Reyes NOW, will he say NO?
July 31st, 2006 at 7:48 am
Judging by his response in the press and his long contract, I have to say he would. To think anything else is getting little out on the ledge with all this stuff.
I don’t think Reyes is the sharpest tool in the shed. He’s said a few things that may have been somewhat indicative of his state of mind, but the truth is always in between.
I, for one, don’t hold out much hope for him as its taking him forever to mentally mature and he’s too much of a warm climate mommy’s boy, but maybe Emirates stadium will bring out a more creative side to him. If I were Wenger, I would have included on pitch heating systems. How much could they possibly cost? Surely the Ashley money would make them worth it.
July 31st, 2006 at 8:11 am
I doubt he would say NO, but I get your point. Reyes does give a lot in terms of effort, but sometimes when things don’t work out, you must let go. Since we are moving to a new stadium, AW may have decided to give him one last year.
July 31st, 2006 at 9:09 am
Right. And I think that’s fair.
August 1st, 2006 at 7:54 am
Pedersen is left-footed. Just watch him when he takes the corners and free-kicks and you will see that he is left-footed.
August 1st, 2006 at 8:00 am
You are not wrong, Ze Roberto is free agent, but he is 31-32 I think, so maybe that’s the reason why the other clubs are not interested in him.
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