I have a feeling Gallas and Toure may not be the best partnership at Arsenal. What I mean is - both players are a bit similiar. Both are under 6 feet, while their pace would stop the quickest forwards, on occassions when we have to defend deep, their lack of height may cause us problems. The Charlton match we looked quite shaky at the back when dealing with the long ball into the box.
I believe the better central defensive option is a tall man/quick man partnership, that’s Gallas or Toure to partner either Senderos or Djourou. That way we could deal with any soft of attack throwing at us.
Most significantly though, it’s our left back position. Particular in the Premiership, where most of our oppositions know us well. Anyone has noticed when we played Hoyte at the back, the opposition just kept bombing down our left?
If Gallas really doesn’t fancy playing there (LB), we would have a potential problem there.
34 Responses to “Our weak link”
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October 2nd, 2006 at 11:02 am
Gallas DOESN’T fancy playing there…
and …
I think Toure / Gallas will develop into a fantastic partnership.
Maybe playing together for half a season, will allow them to get some chemistry and help them play off each other a bit.
You can’t expect them to gel overnight. They are both world class… they will be excellent together. HARDLY are they our weak link.
You can’t ask Gallas to become a left back. Sorry. That is what set him off at Chelsea to some degree.
He’s a center back. Kolo and Gallas can form a formidable partnership. Just let them play together for a while.
October 2nd, 2006 at 11:10 am
rubbish - Gallas wasn’t fully fit on Saturday.
He played in the middle against Porto & it strengthened the whole back line. Hoyte payed much better in that match because Gallas was there to cover for him and direct him - which Djourou doesn’t have the experience for. Porto had no joy on the left that night.
Gallas/Toure will be the strongest CB pairing in the Premiership before too long.
October 2nd, 2006 at 11:11 am
What also set him off is that Chelsea are a bunch of wankers.
I agree that Toure/Gallas will be the best center back pairing in the league.
People also forget that we have no cover a defensive midfield. If Gilberto goes down we've got Song and Denilson. You can't win anything with those two. Maybe Denilson in a year's time but not now. (And I know Diaby will come back but who know's how he'll react to having that much time out.)
October 2nd, 2006 at 11:59 am
I dont think there’s any cause for concern, the 2 have only played 2 games together and we are already calling foul. Come on people, they are both world class players and we will be better for it when they play together for a while.
October 2nd, 2006 at 12:13 pm
I think we are definitely weak down the left when hoyte is playing. Hoepfully, CLichy can get 4 or 5 games before the January transfer window so Wenger will know if he needs to get a LB.
October 2nd, 2006 at 12:29 pm
I am not talking about the “chemistry” problem, this will be improved with time. I am talking about the “height”. Our style of play with us attacking all the time, that shouldn’t cause us much a problem normally. But when occassions when we have to defend deep, like against quality team such as Chelsea, Liverpool with tall or powerful forwards, their lack of height may cause a problem or two.
but my key point is the left back position. Justin Hoyte is not up to it. Clichy is bothered by injury in a regular base, and if Flamini really not wanting to play there according to the report, someone has to play there.
I also like to think if we play Gallas in the central, then where it would leave Senderos and Djourou to? Isn’t it a waste to have two young and promising central halfs yet not playing them there? While having a quality defender Gallas yet not playing him at LB (where he has performanced so well)?
Although i understand Gallas does not fancy playing there, as professional footballer, I don’t hope they will be playing where they are told. at least for the good of team, i think a Eboue-Toure-Djourou-Galls back 4 will be more solid than Eboue-Toure-Gallas-Hoyte back 4.
October 2nd, 2006 at 12:38 pm
btw, when i said “weak link”, i mean our left back position (if Gallas doesn’t play there). And as for the Gallas + Toure partnership, I said they may not be our “best partnership” in central for Arsenal. I don’t mean they are the weak link playing there.
October 2nd, 2006 at 1:11 pm
What about this:
Lauren-Toure-Senderos-Gallas
Once we have Clichy, Lauren and Senderos back I’m sure there will be variations but is my first choice back four.
As for now I agree with your line up as the strongest.
October 2nd, 2006 at 1:43 pm
Anyone knows if there is a DVD for all Bergkamps goals starting from Ajax till his last game with Arsenal …even his goals with The Netherlands.
We are talking : 80% of these goals are fun to watch .. most of his goals come with great touches.
Thanks.
October 2nd, 2006 at 1:46 pm
Lauren, Eboue and Senderos, Djourou are a match for themselves. I have no favourite. but left back i just don’t have enough faith in Hoyte.
October 2nd, 2006 at 3:06 pm
Andez, I don’t understand your thought process.
Gallas is a CENTER BACK. He came here partially because he didn’t want to play left back at Chelsea. We knew that going in.
He is a WORLD CLASS Center back. So is TOURE.
So, I don’t give a f*** about Senderos and Djourou and what they think.
If we are trying to do “whats best for the team”… then I want two WORLD CLASS Center Backs paired together regularly.
You don’t move a star player, to try and fit in a young player who HAS NOT proven to be capable of taking the load full time at a team like Arsenal.
You can try and get a LEFT BACK in January… or if Clichy returns, and excels, then all the better.
Djourou and Senderos can spell KOLO and GALLAS. Maybe, Gallas can play LB on occasion… There are the FA Cup and Carling Cup… and CL matches when we’ve already qualified for the next round… there will be some games for Senderos and Djourou in there.
But you don’t ask a world class player to change positions to accomodate kids… not when Gallas / Toure could become the next great Arsenal pairing in the Center of Defense.
Thats my OPINION.
October 2nd, 2006 at 3:39 pm
Guys, have we heard anything new related to Comcast and other cable TV Companies carrying Setanta Sports? As it stands now, I think only DirecTV (and one other company) carry this channel….
October 2nd, 2006 at 4:02 pm
Stag, once again someone else’s quite quite logical and this case, right, opinion cannot penetrate your footballing brain.
Also, please stop with this constant use of the term “world class”, it’s a stupid term and one which I thought you would have realised by now is a total shite. After all, last year against Juventus all you could say was that everyone at Juventus was world class, Emerson was world class, Zambrotta was world class, their tea lady was world class. What happened? We put them on their ass.
Toure and Gallas may be great players but their weakness is in the air. Gallas had Terry to provide the aerial prowess at Chelsea and Toure had Senderos last year. Djourou is the best of the lot in that department, which you would have seen at Old Trafford if you had looked at the game without an in-built prejudice against players who are not referred to as world class or have not played for 120 years at the top level. Just look at United’s very last attack in the game and look which 6 4″ young swiss rose above the united alamo and headed the ball 20 yards out of harm’s way. Yes, Djourou. It’s not about blindly putting players together because of reputation, it’s about forging different strengths to create the best TEAM.
Another compelling reason to support Andez’s observations is the total liability that is Justin Hoyte, who has improved lately, but is still some way short of premiership class never mind Arsenal class.
Gallas and Toure could be playing together with the proverbial cigar in their mouth and yet all this could still be rendered irrelevant by the constant stream of mistakes from Hoyte.
Therefore it would make sense to play Gallas at left back (where he is just as effective as centre back) and Djourou at centre back, where he has done pretty freekin’ well since the he was introduced last year.
Senderos? No, I don’t think he is good enough overall to make a difference. He constantly gets out-muscled and that’s supposed to be his strong point. What he gives us in the air he ruins with his clumsy play on the ground.
October 2nd, 2006 at 4:49 pm
thks Mazza. I also glad u pointed out the Terry+Gallas example, it’s also what i had in mind. A good example as well.
October 2nd, 2006 at 4:59 pm
We still have Flamini who can do a job as a defensive midfielder, and Baptista is suppoesed to be pretty handy there as well. Once all our injured pllayers come back I think we’ll have the strongest squad that we’ve had for a few years. Is looking pretty good for the arsenal!
October 2nd, 2006 at 5:19 pm
Stuff it.
October 2nd, 2006 at 6:28 pm
I’m a bit pissed.
I dont necessarily like the way stag comes across with his points most of the time, but I have to say usually he is right.
Gallas and Toure is the strongest centre half pairing in Europe. And Andez gallas is not that short either.
The time is now. This team can win everything (almost). And Gallas is the reason why. Senderos and Djorou can play in the carling cup and are good enough to be able to rest Gallas and toure occasionally in the league.
BUt watching arsenal at the emirates, gallas is unbeliveable, and i can see why mourinho was so upset to see him go…
if clichy stays fit and performs we have the strongest and one of the most attacking defences in the world.
And lehmann… my god i love the crazy german.
he has made three of the best saves i’ve ever seen - man u, real, villareal, and now charlton (ok thats 4).
and the LB problem? Just buy another one…
good site intelligent debate
October 2nd, 2006 at 7:00 pm
yeah he is usually right, like when he said Arsenal didn’t have a hope in hell of progressing in europe last year and how Fabregas couldn’t hold Vieira’s gym bag. Yep, he knows what he’s talking about does Stag.
October 2nd, 2006 at 7:34 pm
I see merit in both of your points Andez and Stag?.and I?m not simply saying that to be diplomatic.
For me the 1st choice best choice thing is interesting but largely academic.
The attrition of a normal season will probably see 1, 2 or 3 defensive players ?out-of-action? or ?coming back? at any given time. So you need a squad of them and that?s what we have.
I?ve thought myself that the Gallas/Toure p?ship whilst wonderful in every other way may have a slight Achilles heel in height?..but time will show whether that proves to be an issue in reality or just in theory.
I doubt Wenger bought Gallas to play leftback so don?t be surprised to see him at CB as soon as Clichy is fit.
Gallas and Toure will be our bedrock.
Eboue is proving invaluable on the right and Wenger places a premium on attacking threat even in defenders. That?s 3 sublime crosses in 3 games.
Let?s see how Clichy goes when he returns. He deserves a chance, he has been a good deputy for a while. If his fitness doesn?t hold he will fade into the squad and then out the door.
Sendy and Djourou will do exactly what they should be doing and that is compete for positions.
October 2nd, 2006 at 8:22 pm
HAve to Agree with Stag fully here. I cannot believe you would even relate the term weak link with Toure/Gallas. It’s like you’ve never really followed football… partnerships take time, and I believe they don’t really need. Gallas barely recovered!!!!!
some of you have this selective amnesia… also you talk a lot and say nothing.
I would rather see this “weak” partnership than terry and carvalho or Puyol and marquez, anyday.
Zambrotta IS world class. I suggest you check out some of Juve’s championship season from 2002/2003 … Zambrotta did amazing things.
Love Senderos, but couldn’t care less if he doesn’t play when I see Gallas and Toure there, hell, I would rather see a 3 man defense WITH gallas and toure, and eboue on the right, than not having those 2 MONSTERS.
You’re the same dude that talks ish about a player and rip another hole, then they score in a crucial game and you’re raving about him. What a joke…
just that douche bag form wtf
October 2nd, 2006 at 10:48 pm
At the moment our best back four is Eboue Toure Djourou Gallas. Toure-Gallas in the middle might be better than Toure-Djourou, but as Andez points out that leaves us with a problem at left back. Hoyte may come good, but he is just too nervous right now. He makes simple mistakes that are not particularly dangerous, but then tries to cover the simple mistake by overcommitting, which has cost us in PKs and goals conceded. If he could get confidence in the reserves and cups, then he might show us his true value. Getting thumped every week for a year has given him experience but killed his confidence.
When we get our injured back o?n the field, perhaps Clichy allows Gallas to move inside. Or maybe the defense is still better as a unit with Gallas o?n the left. Or most likely, the lineup will depend o?n the opponent. We'll see what Le Boss decides.
As for Gallas moving because, in part, he was often played out of position, I'm not sure how big a part it was. I think the main reason he wanted to leave Chelsea was because he wasn't treated like a grown up. Players at Chelsea have to first be grovellers to Morinho, and second good players (but even if you are both, you might still not make the team.) So Gallas got tired of the grovelling and decided to leave. But saying publicly that you are tired of being played out of position is smarter than publicly saying you are tired of grovelling to Morinho, and Gallas is smart like that. Of course I'm speculating a little, and if Gallas really doesn't want to play left back, Wenger won't play him there unless it's necessary.
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:59 am
I initially thought that Gallas’s potential arrival would be a problem for our team in the locker room based on the all the reports that were flying around prior to the actual transfer. But we all know that Mourinho is a d**kh**d in the way he runs his ship. Like you, I don’t think that playing LB is a problem for Gallas. I’m sure if it was, then it would come out like Flamini’s stated dislike for the position. I for one would hate to piss off Gallas by playing him out of position but maybe as you suggest that was just a smoke screen. I also prefer the Djourou-Gallas tandem on the left side. Quite frankly, Hoyte’s experience at Sunderland did not prepare him well for his return. He has not shown that his play was elevated by being at the sharp end of a relegation fight. To be fair, he did only play RB there and was ok in the games I watched (I’ll admit to watching Sunderland set a league record in futility).
This year’s candidate for the Sunderland award is Watford with no wins in 7 games. They are also our next opponent. They pride themselves on ‘direct play’. This means high tempo, a lot of long balls, crosses and very little technical play. Their most dangerous players are King and Young. The 3 goals (1 og.) that Fulham scored were all the result of flick-ons in the box that caught Watford defenders flat footed. Man U could not crack their defensive shell with the one-two type passing game we have been fond of. This will be a game for Adebayor, Baptista and Ljungberg-physical and pacy. We will need to continue our new found mixture of direct play(Eboue crosses)and counter-attacks with speed.
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:20 am
Here are the figures
Djourou - 1.93 m
Senderos - 1.90 m
Carvalho - 1.83 m
Toure - 1.83 m
Terry - 1.82 m
Gallas - 1.81 m
If we are talking solely about height, there is no difference between Toure and Terry or Carvalho. But height alone may not translate always to good jumping and heading ability (Henry is 1.88m).
I do agree that Toure’s heading is his weak link. I don’t know about Gallas (haven’t seen enough games for Arsenal yet). But their great strength is their versatility. Toure can play right back and Gallas can play anywhere in defence. The same cannot be said of Senderos or Djourou (not yet). Hoyte is unfortunately proving to be a liability.
In that sense, the strongest back four now is clearly Eboue, Toure, Djourou and Gallas. When Senderos and Clichy return, things could change. But I doubt AW signing another left back with Traore waiting in the wings.
It’s a sign of our strength in depth, that we are discussing this kind of subject.
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:27 am
demain, u do remember i was the one who wrote “Gallas it the rock”. And in this article of me, does it sound like i’m ripping off Gallas?
I re-read my post again, i think i basically pointed out two things:
1. The WEAK LINK is in our LB position.
2. Gallas and Toure may not be the BEST partnership at Arsenal.
My main agrument point is - as we have some other options like Senderos and Djourou at central half, while basiclly none at LB (Clichy injury-phrone, Flamini not willing to play there, Hoyte hasn’t been up to the task). I think it’s just nature that you move one of the player in the CB who can play so well at LB to cover there at LB right?
I think that’s about all what i meant.
I hope Hoyte will improve and make the LB spot as his own permanently, yet if he fails, somebody has to play there. And if it’s up to me, I would put the player who would do the BEST job playing there. The player to me at the moment is William Gallas.
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:30 am
i also feel that way Greg. i don’t think Gallas’ decision to move is because of his playing position. As i remember even back in Claudio Raneri days he already expressed the same desire to play in CB, yet he didn’t move. For a player to want to leave a club so badly, there must be more than one reason.
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:34 am
nipuna great point! come to think about it, the second part of last season the issue facing us was whether Larsson or Flamini should be filling in at LB! it’s great now we have had some “options”.
October 3rd, 2006 at 8:28 am
Having played CB to a reasonable level I can understand that you may be concerned but:
Toure and Gallas are good in the air, perhaps not winning a clean header but doing enough to block a striker and preventing a goal.
The speed they have will get them out of any trouble they may be in.
Last season in the CL Toure had been beaten but made excellent lunges to win the ball cleanly.
Gallas does the same.
The best thing I have seen from them is they talk a lot, seem to know what each other is doing and not doing. They dont go for the same ball which you make expect, they compliment each other.
If you have a slower CB in your ranks when you hold your line you need to adjust for him, if you are all fast you can holder a tighter more confident line.
Lastly and you may not have seen this, but against Porto, I cant remember which way it was but one covered for the other, which is to be expected. The ball went out for a corner and they both went to each other and gave a big high five. There is team work there already, they are fighting for the cause, for the Arsenal, which takes time.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:23 am
I remember reading an article where Gallas clearly stated that he didn’t mind playing CB or LB as long as he got some consistency at one position and not getting moved around all the time. Mourinho moved him because he felt like it. Gallas has played different positions at Arsenal and the reasons for the moves have all made sense. Play LB because our LB’s injured. Play CB because our other CB is injured. It’s simple. Just be respectful of a player trying to develop and play his best football. CB or LB doesn’t really matter to him as long as you allow him to focus on that one position. I’m sure he has a preference but at the end, it’s all about the team.
Of course you have problems from time to time but as long as he’s not being moved around based on someone’s mood for that day without explanation it’s okay. Personally, I think Gallas is really enjoying his time here. I also believe Wenger will bid for Abidal in January. Abidal likes to get forward and he too is a big boy. Clichy’s been broke his entire career. Wenger wants that class and pace Gallas provides at CB.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:42 am
In what you are saying Gallas is a stop gap, filling in for left back or center back.
Is that the role he wants?
I dont think so, he is not some bit part player, he is the main man, he is a CB starter if all of our players were EVER fit on the same day.
Eboue Toure Gallas and another.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:42 am
In what you are saying Gallas is a stop gap, filling in for left back or center back.
Is that the role he wants?
I dont think so, he is not some bit part player, he is the main man, he is a CB starter if all of our players were EVER fit on the same day.
Eboue Toure Gallas and another.
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:33 pm
How do you define world-class? A player doing some “amazing things”? Whether he is world class or not he still allowed Fabregas to run off him for our second goal at highbury. See, even being “world class” doesn’t make you unbreakable.
The Van Persie “best player in the world” comment was tongue in cheek. There is a difference between completely changing your opinion on a player and giving credit where credit is due.
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:16 pm
homeboy,
world class does not mean error free… i’m sure you’re smart enough to know that. Yes cesc did that… is bergkamp not world-class due to one mistake? or vieira? keane? give me a break… as a matter of fact, take a break yourself and chill.
i never even mentioned anything specific about the van persie comment. I couldn’t care less in all honesty cuz I got the tongue in cheek thing, that comment wasn’t directed to you.
we all support the same team here. i agree with stag most of the time, yes, and he and myself are as much of a fan or arsenal than any of you.. mazza, andez, whatever…
all is full of love… make love not war… love is all you need.. etc etc etc
nothing but love for ya’ll, just cuz you support the gunners alone!
gallas and toure are the most exciting pairing of center backs in europe, as simple as that.
apparently size really does matter for some of you! maybe you’re a bit bitter! jajaja :p
love you guys !!! i’m so glad we’re arguing about gallas and toure in our team !!!!! cherish that ish and don’t complain….
weak link?? i doubt it
October 3rd, 2006 at 6:32 pm
Cool. I probably took it the wrong way, which is alarmingly easy to do with written text.
Up the arse!
October 5th, 2006 at 5:46 am
On the topical note, our weak link is Gilberto. Not when he is playing, but if he gets injured. For every other position, we have good backup. But if Gilberto is injured, none of Flamini, Song or Denilson inspire any confidence. Will Baptista play there? In the same vein, our second weakest link is Lehmann.