As many of you are aware… I have been banging on the Jeremie Aliadiare drum for most of the season. Frankly, I think he deserves a legitimate shot at the first team, and a run of a few games at the very least.
I don’t think RVP or Adebayor have proven to be the prolific scorers we hoped they would be… and you know what, they aren’t even players that can set up goals for others. Robert Pires could do BOTH… bang in the much needed goal at the opportune time, AND, set up Thierry Henry with great passing as well.
RVP and Ade lack consistency and neither is a great passer of the ball. RVP doesn’t like to pass at all!!! He never saw a shot he didn’t like. In Basketball, he’d be called a black hole. He gets the ball, its not coming out!!!
Now if you were Jeremie Aliadiare… or to progress the argument even further… if you were ANY of the young Arsenal strikers who have been banging in goals with alarming regularity… be it while out on loan OR in reserves, what exactly would you be thinking about your Arsenal future????
I’d be thinking that I am going to have to play elsewhere, if I look at the reality of the situation.
Name the player, and how you see him getting into the squad this year or next. Its not going to happen, unless TH14 goes down with a serious injury. If that happens, WOE is us.
So if you are Nik Bendtner, Arturo Lupoli, or Anthony Stokes… let alone Aliadiare… you’d have to think that perhaps your career is better served elsewhere. Aliadiare can’t do much more than he has this year. He’s been the good soldier. He’s scored the goals and played well. He can’t even get on the expanded bench in the CL at this point, let alone the chance to actually start a meaningful game in the league. What will be different for the likes of Bendtner, Stokes and/or Lupoli?
That is the catch-22 of being the Arsenal. (or United/Chelsea/Liverpool)
You have to WIN NOW… you have to have PROVEN players in the team. Its going to be a rarity that you are going to have a kid like Cesc, break into the starting squad and get a chance to play every match.
So… do you go elsewhere? Not many have had success after leaving the club, thats for sure. Or… do you quietly sit and wait your turn, banging in goals in reserves or for other teams… and let time slip away from your promising career. Its NOT an easy call for a young player. I don’t envy the decision they will have to make!!! But we probably all envy them for being professional footballers with the chance to make it big!
I think Ali will be a success. I don’t think he will ever get a fair chance here at the Arsenal. I think he should move on in January. Ask Arsene to let him go elsewhere. He could DEFINITELY score some goals in the EPL for somebody. I hope he gets his chance somewhere, as with all the injuries the kid has sufferered and fought thru, he deserves the opportunity to succeed or fail, at the very least.
If it were me, I’d ask Arsene to be released in January… and I think Lupoli, Stokes and Bendtner will face the same decision in the next year or two. They ALL have some serious talent and potential. Which on the whole is meaningless, especially if you never get any legitimate consideration in the first team.
IF the club is doing well, then NOBODY will care about the kids, because success means we are doing it right.
Time will tell. It always does.
Seemed a harmless little f*ck
But we unleashed a lion
Jeremy spoke in, spoke in (2x)
Jeremy spoke in class today
Woo (29x)
(PEARL JAM)
Happy Thanksgiving ALL!
26 Responses to “What if it were you…”
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November 23rd, 2006 at 3:12 pm
i agree totally. i feel that he can be really good on the 1st team. but if he never gets that chance, then we'll never know. he's been around since 1999 and has only started about 18 games. of course, we remember the injuries. but i believe that now is the time to give him a chance. and you're definitely right about the catch 22. our desire to win sometimes hampers us from giving chances to unproven players. unfortunately thats where injury comes in. a player gets injured and we need to fill that role? if we have no “proven” player who can do it then they look past the bench. we'll see what happens in January. i myself don't know what will happen or what he should do. he probably would do better on another team. but i would love to see him starting up front every weekend someday. we'll see.
happy thanksgiving to gooners everywhere!
November 23rd, 2006 at 3:43 pm
nice addition at the end…one of my fav songs as well
but yeah comin to the topic, i think ali will come good and at arsenal…seems moderately patient he does
but i think wenger has decided tht this is the season for RVP…am pretty sure when fit he will be starting a majority of the games (either in mid or up front)…there’s no doubting RVPs talent…but as is often the case…tht isnt quite enuf!
but yeah realistically atleast 2 out of stokes, lupoli, Nik Bendtner, Ali are going to have to leave the club prb even as early as next summer…but then thts way the meatball bounces!
November 23rd, 2006 at 3:54 pm
Stag, what do your base your opinion of Aliadiere on?
I watch of a lot of Arsenal games, the Carling Cup, etc whenever possible, but I have only seen fleeting glimpses of Aliadiere perform well. In fact, I’ve only seen fleeting glimpses of Aliadiere play at all…
The few times when I have seen him and he has played well, he does look good. But the other few times I have seen him he really hasn’t done that much.
Either way I don’t think he has done anywhere near enough for anyone to have such an inflated opinion of him. Further evidence is his record on his numerous loan spells.
In terms of the other young strikers (and young players generally) coming through at Arsenal the adage is if you’re good enough you’ll play. Walcott is a good example of a forward who has come through and done well.
Van Persie was also pretty young when he got his chance, and look at him now. I know you dont rate him that highly, but watching him every week at the Emirates, I think he is a player who is fantastic now, and is only going to get better and better. I think he is as good as Torres (although I haven’t seen enough of him play to really argue this point).
Van Persie is also being played out of position. I, like many others, think he is wasted on the left, and when arsenal switched to a 4-4-2 at half time against Hamburg, Van Persie was the deeper striker and was much more dangerous, scoring the goal and helping to set up play. His team play is definitely getting better, and maybe that is a benefit of him playing on the left.
By all accounts Bendtner sounds like the next big thing, although (again) I haven’t seen him play. But the fact that he is consistently scoring for a top Championship team, and the glowing reports about his allround play, makes me think he can make it. It also sounds like he has a bit of attitude about him which i think is vital for any striker to make it.
I’ve heard Lupoli being compared to Michael Owen… If that was the case then that would be excellent! But it sounds like he might be a bit lightweight….
But the fact is, if you’re good enough it doesn’t matter how old you are…
I’d be extremely surprised if not one or two of Vela, Merida, Bendtner, Lupoli, Stokes, Muamba graduate to first team regulars in the next few years…
November 23rd, 2006 at 4:18 pm
I have never been convinced about Aliadiere but over the years I have had doubts about other players - Lehmann, Gilberto among others - and they have come good. I don’t believe Aliadiere has what is takes. I am also convinced that Wenger has kept him at Arsenal this season for two reasons only:
(1) He is qualified as a home-grown player under UEFA rules and can fill one of the four places in the UEFA squad reserved for home-grown players over 21.
(2) Wenger wanted to let the young strikers go out on loan so he needed cover in case of injuries to his preferred strikers - Henry, Van Persie and Adebayor. To date Aliadiere has only been in the squad due to injuries and suspensions. As a result I think he will make the bench for the Porto game.
What will happen at the end of the season. If the above reasons are correct, Wenger will let him leave as they would no longer apply.
(1) Clichy and Senderos will turn 21 and fill two of the places reserved for home-grown players.
(2) At least one striker will return from being on loan and fill the fourth striker position. Given performances to date, I expect that to be Bendtner. Lupoli has fallen out of favour at Derby while Bendtner continues to set the division alight. As for Stokes, it is only the Scottish league and I think Wenger sees him more as a winger/striker in a Pires/Ljungberg/Wiltord type role so even if he comes back, he may not be fourth-choice striker.
It would take a serious injury to one of the three front-line strikers as well as a goal-per-game average from Aliadiere to keep him at Arsenal beyond this season. Stag, while you believe RVP and Adebaoyr are not very good and that Aliadiere may be a better option, you have to remember that they are both younger than Aliadiere. While RVP may only be a few months younger, Adebayor is a full two years younger and both of them have played at a World Cup when Aliadiere has not. Both are proven international players.
RVP scored the crucial goal last Tuesday against Hamburg. Adebayor scored the crucial goal at Old Trafford. They will contribute more as the season goes on.
So what will happen Aliadiere at the end of the season? I think wenger will be willing to let him go. Whether he leaves will depend on whether he can find somewhere to pay him similar wages to his Arsenal contract which still has a few years to run and can also offer him a decent chance in the first-team. Why swap fourth-choice at Arsenal for fourth-choice at Everton/West Ham/Middlesborough for less money? his best option could be to go back to France.
It is a pity that he hasn’t fullfilled his potential to date and as I have said he only has a small chance of doing that at Arsenal but like all who leave, I don’t believe he will come back to haunt us.
November 23rd, 2006 at 5:18 pm
I agree with Stag. I am a fan of aliadiare now. He seems to have added an extra dimension to his game in terms of running with ball. He also looks to have put on some muscle as well- he was a bit weedy before.
I havent seen much of him but the dribbling improvement has taken me aback. I would take him ahead of Adebayor at the moment. Though I still think adebayor is useful at times.
November 23rd, 2006 at 6:31 pm
Unfortunately for Ali, Wenger has decided that Walcott and Baptista are higher up in the pecking order. Which means Ali will be heading out come January.
November 23rd, 2006 at 7:15 pm
I’m not adverse to seeing Aliadiere in the team, we’re not going to win anything anyway so it won’t do any harm. He does deserve some sort of chance, but I would play Van Persie ahead of him, and Baptista, but probably not Adebayor who is not really impressing me right now. I think they are at about the same level to be honest.
If Aliadiere asked to leave tomorrow Wenger would say goodbye, no doubt about that. I don’t think he’s going to be a valuable player, I’m sorry but he’s 23 and if he was going to be a 20+ goal a season striker he would have shown more than he has and FORCED his way into the team by now. What Stag has to understand is that Wenger sees Aliadiere in training every day, and we don’t, so Wenger is best placed to know if he’s worthy of sticking in the first team on a trial basis. Without access to what Wenger knows, your opinion can only be flawed.
However, if he played I wouldn’t grumble about it, it would be interesting.
November 23rd, 2006 at 8:24 pm
Aliadiare has scored a number of goals THIS YEAR. He has speed and takes it to the opposition. This years Carling Cup is an example. I remember him scoring 3 TIMES in a game a few years back. I base it on what I see. I base it on his style of play, and how it fits with the clubs style. How will we ever really know if he can play at this level, without actually getting a chance. He HAS definitely done it in the reserves this year. That warrants a chance.
RVP. Well, its what I see. He has great talent. I don’t ever debate that. But his style of play is INDIVIDUAL. I don’t see how he has been a better team player. I’ve seen almost every match this year. He’s still an individual. Great skills, but he doesn’t pass when he should at times… and is a black hole when he gets the ball. Sorry, but thats not the Arsenal way.
You can be fantastic. If you do NOT get the chance, you can’t show it. How many of us were screaming for young THEO to get a few minutes last year???? He has proven he can have an impact by PLAYING. If Aliadiare can’t get on the pitch, he can’t prove anything. Neither can Lupoli Stokes or Bendtner. No play, no chance.
They will have to dislodge RVP or Adebayor to get in there.
November 23rd, 2006 at 8:31 pm
For the record…
Adebayor is 22. (Feb.26, 1984)
RVP is 4 months younger than Aliadiare. (Aug.6, 1983)
Aliadiare is 23. (March 30, 1983)
For all intent and purposes, they are about the same age.
November 23rd, 2006 at 8:33 pm
He has definitely been hitting the weights. He is jacked. And… I agree on the dribbling. He attacks right at the opponents.
November 23rd, 2006 at 8:34 pm
I don’t disagree… my arguement is more “if I were him”… I think the writing is on the wall. He might have to move on … in order to prove himself at this level.
November 24th, 2006 at 4:30 am
The BEST players come through. As simple as that. When AW signed Aliadiere, Bendtner, Lupoli the likes, I don’t think he promised them first team football. Most likely it were like “Now u got a shot, to make it at a big club. I believe in you, i believe u got the potential, but u must work hard and SHOW me you BELONG to (be playing at) Arsenal”.
At Arsenal, nobody has a God given RIGHT to play first team football, they must EARN it.
Some made it - Kolo, Cesc, Senderos, Clichy, Eboue, Djourou the likes. Many more failed.
The bottom line is - those AW let go, so far NONE has really made a serious impact in the game, no matter where they went.
November 24th, 2006 at 4:46 am
“I don’t think RVP or Adebayor have proven to be the prolific scorers we hoped they would be… and you know what, they aren’t even players that can set up goals for others.”
While it is true of Ade (2 goals and 0 assists), it is not true of RvP. RvP has 6 goals (second only to Henry) and important ones too - Charlton, Everton, Hamburg. He also has alteast 5 assists (that I can think of) - Zagreb (1 in each game), penalty earned vs Hamburg and 2 vs Liverpool. It is true that RvP doesn’t gel with the team very well but there is no denying his contribution.
Maybe Ali can play ahead of Ade, but Ade gives us something different, while Ali is probably too similar to Henry, who is always on the pitch. Baptista is another player who would get ahead of Ali.
If I were Ali, I would talk 1:1 with AW. If AW has faith in me, I might consider staying, else it’s leave as soon as possible.
November 24th, 2006 at 5:28 am
Actually Anelka left and won the European Cup at Real Madrid and Vieira won the title in Italy - although it was taken away from him. Luis Boa Morte has done well at Fulham - I think he is the best player Wenger has let go.
November 24th, 2006 at 5:31 am
And Van Bronckhorst won the Champions League and La Liga of course, and Sylvinho has won trophies there too - so basically you are talking crap.
November 24th, 2006 at 5:46 am
If it were me and I’d spent a large part of the last 3 seasons injured, I’d be patient. If I haven’t played much though injury, then it’s unlikely I’m going to have imporved much. I will definitely improve playing with Henry, against Gallas and Toure every day and there is no better developer of talent in world football than my current boss. Mentally I’d consider myself a 19 year old, there is no reason to put pressure on myself by thinking ‘I’m 23 and I still haven’t made the breakthough’, after all the boss extended my contact not too long ago, so he sees something in me. The only quotes you’d find in the press from me would be about how good the strikers in the squad are, how hard I am working to improve and how much I want to be at Arsenal. If I’m good enough, I’ll get my shot if not I can go in the summer, but I know I’d regret it if I didn’t even give a full season a chance.
November 24th, 2006 at 8:56 am
Danny T! I hope you’tre taking the piss, because otherwise you’re the one talking total crap!
Andez was referring to young players leaving arsenal who weren’t big names before they left….
So this rules Vieira and Anelka out! Anelka was an established star, and agitated for a move. Vieira was 29 when he left…
Sylvinho and Gio? Please?!!! A certain Ash Cole made it necessary for both those players to leave, and neither could hardly be described as setting the world alight at Barca (neither one are guaranteed starters)
November 24th, 2006 at 10:16 am
I agree with Andez: if Ali, Arturo, Stokes and Bendtner were good enough to displace what we already have, they would have by now. The reserve season, Carling Cup and loan experiences sees some of them finding their level, at least for now. And let’s not forget, it took an Adebayor header to see Ali advance against Everton in the CC.
Wenger always goes on about spirit being essential ? foremost really ? to building a winning team. If all other aspects of players competing for the first team are equal, it is the X-factor of confidence and spirit that may tip the scales in favor of one over the other. We can only speculate how a player like Ade lifts and adds to the overall confidence of the team because we’re not watching them in training. Conversely, we may not be seeing how our other hopefuls are not on the same wavelength as our current first team.
And stag, I’m surprised you pick out Robin for criticism. He’s been brilliant, both for club and country. Defensively he’s been an asset as well. Watch our defending of set pieces closely next time he plays. He gets on the end of so many balls into the box, one would think he was a natural defender. He’s also being untilised lately in different areas of the pitch depending on what Wenger thinks is the strongest complexion for the side at the time. He may not be in a position where he is personally strong, but in the combination of our assets in which he contributes may have the optimum affect against our opposition when its all weighed out. If we’re expecting Ade to get on the end of balls in the air, and he’s been told to retrieve service from midfield and hold it up in order for other players to join the attack, its an easy mistake to think he’s not getting the chances we think he should be. Utility is important to our congested fixture list, and perhaps what some of our reserve stars lack at the moment.
Lastly, Wenger will always give a player credit for performances and experience, knowing what a small run of form can do for a player’s game. We have to remember what potential he’s seeing in our players day in and day out. Finding a way to unlock it often requires a lengthy spell of faith through a few hard knocks. And if a player stays injury free, he’s got a better chance to gain that trust from the manager. Ali has suffered there, sadly, and not really impressed enough to make an impact while out on loan. Ade and Robin have contributed and delivered in some tight, high profile matches and I no doubt feel Arsene sees them getting better and stronger in some areas where before they might have been weak. Again, these areas might not be glaringly evident to some of us fans, but we might want to think about how RvP’s tracking back, for instance, contributes to Eboue’s, or lately, Clichy’s bombing forward. No one would doubt the young right and left backs belong in the first team. Not today, anyway.
With news of Titi’s injury and Robin suspended, I’m expecting, or hoping for, a performance like the one against United at OT. Ade, Hleb and Cesc working on getting behind the defence, and Flamini harrying the midfield to help us keep up the pressure. Maybe Baptista and Theo coming on with 20 minutes to go could give us an edge again against a scrappy, defensive Bolton. I just hope we’re able to take advantage of some of their mistakes for once as we did late against Hamburg, and not concede an inch perfect finish from a single one of ours like we have all too often this season.
November 24th, 2006 at 10:58 am
Scotty… this article was not a shot or rip at Wenger OR Arsenal.
It was based on… IF IT WERE YOU.
If YOU were Aliadiare Bendtner Stokes or Lupoli… what would YOU be thinking??
I would be thinking… I am NOT going to get a fair shake in the team for a few years. Thats just FACTUAL.
What exactly more can Aliadiare do at aged 23? He has been the good soldier, gone on loan, scored the goals in reserves and waited his turn. What should he do??? wait until he’s 25 or 26???
Its a commentary based on the PLAYERS perspective. Do you WAIT and watch your career go by?? or leave.
If I am Aliadiare Stokes Bendtner and Lupoli… I’d be MIGHT be thinking, wow… thats a lot of competition for my position. 4 I just named, with Henry RVP and Adebayor.
At least 2 or 3 are NEVER getting a chance to play first team for us. Hell, Aliadiare can’t even get on an expanded CL bench.
Take the PLAYERS perspective. What would you do?
And I call it as I see it. I do NOT think RVP fits in the team.
I have NEVER doubted his talent, but its INDIVIDUAL talent for the most part. If you see him gelling with the team as a fluent passer and mover without the ball… send me the tapes, because I haven’t seen it.
Adebayor? I don’t see anything special about him. Didn’t last year when I sat next to you… he’s a bit above average. Nothing special.
If I were a young striker at Arsenal, I’d be looking at my options. Thats ALL I am saying… now give peace (or Aliadiare) a chance!!!
November 24th, 2006 at 11:09 am
to follow the RVP theme, I certainly wouldn’t say he’s been brilliant for club, but he’s improving. I’m not sure I ever expected him to be a prolific scorer, I’m thinking he’ll be better than Bergkamp and something like Pires in terms of goals. However, I follow what Stag says about him not being a team player, but he does seem to be learning when to pass and when to drift into the middle. Coming from wide on the left it should be harder for him to be picked up and we all know that he can be pretty devestating from 30 yards out.
Adebayor on the other hand does get a really tough time from some people on this board. I still maintain that he’s the only one of the strikers who’s come close to being a partner for Henry.
November 24th, 2006 at 11:52 am
Agree with rocka23. DannyT is the one talking crap.
Anelka proves the point. Anelka started out at Paris Saint-Germain as a youth player and, in November 1996, at the age of 17, he joined English Arsenal for a fee of ?500,000. He was eventually transferred to Real Madrid in the summer of 1999, for ?22.3m. In all he made 90 appearances for Arsenal (including 17 as a substitute), scoring 28 goals and establishing himself as a top class striker. By contrast, Anelka spent just one season at Real Madrid, and while he played in the side that won the UEFA Champions League final, beating Valencia 3-0, his form was remarkably worse than it had been at Arsenal ? scoring only four goals in 29 appearances. He only lasted one season at Real Madrid and, thereafter, his value continued to slide downward.
As for Patrick Vieira, while his name should never be uttered in the same sentence with the Incredible Sulk as he is a figure to be revered in Arsenal lore, the truth is that Wenger accepted a bid of ?13.7m for him from Juventus on July 14, 2005 whereas Juventus sold Viera to Internazionale just one year later for ?6,500,000, a loss of more than seven million pounds.
Wenger has never let go a player who later became a Thierry Henry, a Patrick Vieira, a Robert Pires, etc. That is the point. Remember Quincy Owusu-Abeyie, David Bentley, Matthew Upson, Jermaine Pennant, Jermaine Thomas, Graham Stack, if one of those players hits, then Danny T would have the beginning of an argument. Until then, “crap” is a kind word to describe his argument.
November 24th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
I guess I was implying that the reserve stars should feel that they are where they are for good reason, and that working with The Arsenal under Wenger is going to make them better, faster, than being anywhere else. At some point I’m sure Wenger will be honest with them or put them out on loan in a sort of shop window run like he did Bentley. To Bentley’s credit, he found a starting place in the Blackburn side and it seems to be his level. Well placed, you have to say for the kid’s career. So, to truly answer your question ??which is hard to answer really as I don’t know what Wenger is telling these kids every day ? I would stay at Arsenal until a decent loan spell came up where I could impress and either work into the first team or be placed. Of course, if a big offer came up with a decent club (I wouldn’t be surprised to see any one of our kids at Liverpool), I would take it.
RvP and Titi don’t work, but that’s not to say RvP doesn’t fit the team in my opinion. He’s starting to be even more valuable on set pieces (free kicks and a perfectly placed ball for Gallas against L’Pool), contributing defensively, getting stronger on both sides of the midfield, and moments of game-winning, individual brilliance. Despite being described as a instinctive goal scorer that gives the team much needed directness, he can do it all and is getting better every year. You don’t sell a player like that.
Ade has two huge game-winners from headers already this season, one that I can remember from last season (Brum), some key assists (one v. Spuds), and is only 21. He’s a big game producer who links up well with Titi and is always good for an excellent chance or two per game. Having faith in him requires the absolute minimum of patience, from where I’m sitting. Funny, he scored at home v. Charlton when we were there, and I think made another. Are you waiting for a Kanu-like hattrick? ;^)
A young striker at Arsenal must look at his options just as much as an established striker. Going out on loan while still being under the tutelage of Arsene Wenger isn’t bad career advice to a point. But if Arsene Wenger is half the manager I think he is, he is in constant contact with all of his players and continues to know and act in accordance to what is best for them. With Ali et al still hanging around, we can only assume he agrees.
November 24th, 2006 at 4:41 pm
Sorry, I shouldn’t have used the word “crap”, it was a bit strong. HOWEVER, I was responding to a simple statement: “The bottom line is - those AW let go, so far NONE has really made a serious impact in the game, no matter where they went.”
Well I don’t know about you, but I call winning the Champions League or Spanish League a serious impact, and Anelka, Van Bronckhorst and Sylvinho were “let go” and won those trophies - and none of them were old farts when they left. So the FACT is, I’m right and you three are all wrong.
November 24th, 2006 at 4:43 pm
There are also certain players who have no ambition and are happy to sit on their arse collecting the wages. Maybe Aliadiere is one of them. Most players would have left of their own accord by now, why hasn’t he?
November 24th, 2006 at 6:40 pm
Something I never want to believe, but you make a good point. We don’t know if he’s happy banging Page 3 models and rotting in the reserves.
Still, I don’t think Wenger would keep him around if he didn’t see ambition. Its all crazy speculation, but I don’t see Ali impressing in top flight football yet and I have no idea if he ever will.
November 24th, 2006 at 10:09 pm
Ali deserves some run in the first team. Maybe not as a starter, but as a 60-70th minute sub depending on how the games go. The problem is Arsenal have not been consistent in being comfortable at those times. Either we are a goal down or chasing the game until the end. See what he can do during those times and judge him if he can have the same impact as Walcott. I know Ali is frustrated and he has the right to be. He has been at Arsenal for what?? 7-8 years now? He is only 23 and i believe that is still young, well may be..But if he wants to move on…we all can understand his motives.
Right now I am very frustrated with Ade. His passing is not accurate and misses too much open chance. I know his big…what ever u guys call it ” different dimension” what ever…he just seems not to click. I would go with Ali over Ade.
Some of u guys said Ali is too much similar to TH14. Common now, TH14 is the man…no striker is similar to him. We should atleast try to see the combination of Henry and Ali. Give them chance to blend…work it out.. If it doesnt work out…then we could say it aint workin..but for now…Ali needs time in the lineup..