Nov 25
Another trip to the Reebok, another disappointing result for the Gunners. This time, it’s the rat-faced Le Sulk who scores twice to deny Arsenal any points, and surely the title must be out of the picture now.
I think that’s about all I can write right now…
59 Responses to “Bolton 3 - 1 Arsenal”
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November 25th, 2006 at 3:52 pm
Thierry Henry is not injured! He’s possesed and Nicolas Anelka is the devil!
Painfull result.
We played with so much heart and determination and hit the post 3 times. Anelka simply destroyed us and looked like our captain at his best. Wish I can say I’m dissapointed, but it was not our day with the football gods. Flamini needs to stop flopping and giving away possesion. This is the second time he has cost us a goal after trying to get a soft foul. Clichy needs to practice some crossing and play smarter. The latter will come with time. He’s got loads of potential, but is still erratic. Well played, but it wasn’t our day. Walcott needs to play with Henry. Missed RVP on the right as Hleb was off colour. No mozart, no symphony…
…Painfull result.
November 25th, 2006 at 5:15 pm
Congratulations to Anelka for his first two goals of the season. Bolton played a very good game and deserved the win.
The list of negatives for Arsenal from this game are innumerable:
1. Our passing was atrocious-absolutely no one passed the ball well. Without passsing, we are very ordinary.
2. We were run over in the midfield.
3. Our FBs were ripped apart by Diouf, Anelka, Davies and slo-mo Campo.
4. If anyone saw Ljungberg do anything besides hit the crossbar-raise their hand.
5. Bolton did not really need their GK today. Our well documented lack of finishing saw to that.
6. Eboue at no time posed a threat in attack. Clichy should not be crossing the the half way line until he can prove he can accomplish something.
7. I like when CBs can lead the attack. When that attacking CB is Senderos, then you know Arsenal’s s**t is very weak. Are you getting this Fabregas?
8. Toure had a very bad day at the office. Another day, another dollar, another set piece goal. Arsenal are starring in the movie Ground Hog.
9. Did Hleb wear the right cleats because he looked like a new born colt who is trying to learn how to walk. Pitiful.
10. I’ve previously posted that Arsenal needs strikers who are willing to get stuck in. I’m still waiting. I will give Baptista a pass because he has not played enough in this league.
11. After the first goal (theirs of course) possession was 70%-30% for Bolton. Are you f*****g kidding me! It was raining corners. We were under seige. This was the key moment in our EPL season and we could not answer the bell. This may well equal the disaster that befell us after that infamous ManU game.
Walcott was our lone bright spot, the best Arsenal player on the field. He needed to see more of the ball in last of the first half. Can you hear me now… Fabregas?
Can we give up the 4-5-1 s**t. If we are going 4-4-2 when we are down,then we should be starting with from the git go.
November 25th, 2006 at 6:28 pm
Try and remember who was missing, Lauren, Gallas, Van Persie, Hleb, Henry, Rosicky.
What was most revealing about this game was that Wenger had obviously given up the title before this game had even started. He even rested Hleb.
Do you think Wenger really expected to beat Bolton playing a midfield of Flamini, Fabregas, Gilberto, Ljungberg and Walcott?? Of course not, he’s showing these players what it’s all about, what they will have to do to win a title.
Arsenal was flattened, no excuses. We need to look at how this team will adapt to the pressures over the next 6 months. How it will fight for 4th place again, because that’s as good as it’s going to get.
November 25th, 2006 at 6:28 pm
What exactly are we looking forward to?
The league run is now definitely DEAD. It was on life support after drawing with Newcastle at home, but its over now. There is no sign that we can do anything consistently in the league. Without Henry in the team, as I have said before, we are ORDINARY.
The Champions League?
How about NAILBITING time at Porto. They could easily beat us, based on our current form. Heaven forbid we get behind in that game… we could be OUT of the CL in the group stages, in a relatively easy group.
So that leaves us with the Carling Cup and the FA Cup… two competitions that Arsene Wenger has shown recently that he doesn’t care about at all.
So we aren’t buying anyone in January?
OK, great!! Are we selling anybody?? Because if I was a young player, I’d be disgusted. Aliadiare should request an immediate transfer. If he can’t get into the team and they SUCK that bad at Bolton, he’s never getting into the team.
BENDTNER scored yet again today.
As a matter fact… STOKES scored again for Falkirk (he also got red carded!)
If we aren’t going to win anything… isn’t it important to see if your younger players can play at this level? If Adebayor isn’t cutting it, wouldn’t it be smart to try Aliadiare or Bendtner or Stokes or Lupoli… in the first team for a run of games??? Let’s see if these kids can do any better. Let’s see if they can cut it in the Premiership… they can’t possibly hurt us to take a look at them.
The league is over. The CL might be done soon.(jeeeeezus I hope not, but is a distinct possibility)… what exactly are we looking forward to???
If we aren’t going to bring anyone in, in January, then at least bring back a few of the loan-ees… and see what they’ve got.
November 25th, 2006 at 7:46 pm
I know what we can look forward to, you pissing and moaning for 6 months. Trotting out the same inane drivel day after day, week after week. Shame you hadn’t the brains to realise that Arsenal was never going to win the title this year or the patience to understand that the team is young, growing, in transition - with lots of young players and new players. It doesn’t happen overnight.
And shut up about Bendtner and bloody Stokes - there is only one team worth talking about in Scotland and that’s Cetic, otherwise Stokes is playing against teams of the same calibre as Division One week in week out. Bendtner’s doing very well, but the Championship isn’t the Premiership, what should Wenger do, recall him and stick him straight into the Arsenal team? What would become of your precious Aliadiere?
So, no, we’re probably going to win sod all this year - what are you going to do for the next 6 months? Drive everyone to drink with your boring rhetoric or try for once in your life to understand that Wenger isn’t playing Football Manager 2006, he’s trying to build his own Arsenal Pt. 3 and it may take a while to get there.
November 25th, 2006 at 8:09 pm
Danny… how about you getting your head out of your ass?
Why not sod off and go bother someone else on some other site.
I don’t need your shite. You’re a jackass.
Just don’t comment on my stuff. Its easier.
November 25th, 2006 at 8:36 pm
As fans, we always look forward to the next game. Time under Wenger has been good, but it’s not necessary to be the norm. For the majority of football clubs and their fans, suffering is part of being a fan. A lot of fans really have nothing looking forward to every year, think Charlton, Sheff Utd or even Bolton, CL? League? FA Cup? None. They don’t go into every new season hoping to win any of those. With a bit of luck, perhaps Carling Cup. But that didn’t stop them coming back to support their teams every year.
Arsenal before George Graham, or even in the later years of GG was in a similiar situation. Back then my best wish was a decent cup run.
Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal’s success in the recent decades have drawn a lot of fans to the club, but those fans probably live the supporters life under illusion. A supporter’s life is not always about winning trophy. I guess that’s why Roy Keane once accused Old Trafford crowd as phawn sandwiches eaters, and Emirates is still like the “Library”. Those fans only sing when they are winning.
I hate to agree with Danny, ‘cos most of the time i don’t agree with him. But he’s probably right on this one - realistic speaking, we are not ready yet for a serious title challenge this season.
Talent wise I have no doubt. The kids are extremely talent. Surely more talented as a team than Man Utd. But football is more than just talent. You need to have real character as well.
When we take a lead in a game we are always flowing, and when we are down, we are always struggling. That’s the main difference between Man U and us. Their fans won’t really have to worry their team being down in a game, they know they have enough character in the team to turn the things around.
But when we fall behind in a game, does anyone of us really have the faith our team can turn things around?
If a team can only do well when their score first, this team is never going to be consistent.
I think the primary problem our team having in recent year is lack of the real character, the fighting character in the squad (apart from Kolo and Freddie), a Adams/Keown, a Parlour, a Vieira. We do not need to buy any more player IMO, the squad is already too deep. Too big a squad will cause dressing room problem and harm the team’s chemistry.
November 25th, 2006 at 9:15 pm
A couple of thoughts about today and the future:
1) Stop playing Ljungberg– he’s past it– he can’t go by anyone anymore; I simply don’t know what Wenger thinks he’s bringing to the party anymore.
2) Stop playing Senderos– I think we always look more unsteady in the back with him in there– he simply doesn’t have enough speed to make a full contribution as a center back… Toure was with Anelka on the third goal (even after Anelka broke offside)– Senderos was nowhere to be found, because he can’t run with those cats– would have been nice to have Gallas (or Djourou today) closing off the angles in the middle of the field, while Toure covered Anelka down the side.
3) Figure out what it takes to mark people on corners– and then bring in defenders who can do it. If that means replacing Senderos, Djourou, Gilberto, Fabregas, and even Toure, then do it– this is ridiculous. Why does no other team in the league concede from corners, long throws, and set pieces like we do? Find the best teacher of set piece defense in the world, and have him coach our guys on this stuff (If that’s Tony Adams, then maybe Adams and Wenger need to figure out how to kiss and make up). Why is it that John Terry can get to virtually every cross in both his and the opponents’ box, but our guys can’t seem to get to any of them (unless left unmarked, a` la Gallas against Liverpool and Gilberto today)? Why do we leave people unmarked so much more often than opponents do? I’ll bet we have the highest ratio of shots on goal allowed off corners to corners defended in the league, and probably one of the lowest ratios of shots on goal attempted to corners attempted in the league, as well.
4) I don’t care how many skillful strikers we have in the squad or on loan– we clearly don’t have enough who can finish anything like an efficient percentage of their chances. Everton, West Ham, Newcastle, Hamburg, and now Bolton have all been more clinical about taking the chances that they create than we have. Do you realize how many goals Van Nistlerooy has scored for Real Madrid in how few games– something like 14 goals in 15 games– can you imagine what a finisher like that would do with the chances that Arsenal create? There must be somebody out there in the world that we can get who will do better than scoring one out of every 7-10 opportunities, as our current bunch (Henry included) are doing… Anelka today looked like the Henry we used to know.
November 25th, 2006 at 10:18 pm
Argh Bolton. I hate Bolton. My dad has a cousin in Bolton so he always supports them when they’re up against Arsenal. He does it just to torment me and in the last 2 years it has been utter torment. Losing today brings back all those smirks he’s given me when Bolton scores against us. I didnt get to see the game since I was on call in the hospital today. I followed the commentary on the web and it was miserable enough. I know they have become our Boggy team, but it pains me to no end. I hate this fixture.
A lot of key linch-pin players were out, lets hope when they get back we can pick ourselves up and get a good run going.
A lot of us felt we have a lot more depth this year than last year. I think last year at this time was far more painful. This year at least we know what Wenger’s Gunners Mark 3 are capable of. Last year their were a lot more questions. This year may end up being more difficult for us during these times when we dont play as we’re capable of.
Time to pick up the pieces and move on. Gonna have a nice week of sulking for Nick Anelka to look forward to. If we can’t win the league then thats that. Still a lot to look forward to and a lot to sing and cheer for. We’re still going to see some great play from our team. When we get on a good run I know its going to be breath-taking. Its ups and downs for the red and white this year. Lets hope we see more ups. Would still rather watch the Arsenal lose than watch any other team in the world win.
November 25th, 2006 at 11:14 pm
I could not agree with you more. Ljungberg is a like a washed up fighter-all he has left is his heart but the legs and hand speed are gone. We would expect Wenger to objectively realise that Freddy is past it. He realised it with Viera way before many of us did.
Wenger’s playing Senderos I believe goes back to his loyalty for last year’s season. He’s already taken two yellow cards in two games because he can’t track back quick enough. The best striker in the league today asks Senderos “who’s you’re daddy?” Are you looking forward to Dec. 10th? Can we get Gallas a leg transplant?
We should be looking for coaches from teams who have the best defense/scoring records from set pieces. What we’re doing isn’t working this year and did not work last year. The Dutch teams when taking corners, always have a player curl along the 18 yd box going from near to the back of the box. Its just f*****g ridiculous that our corner defense is clueless.
I don’t trust the strikers we have in the first team. I have called for a return of our loanees because they are demonstrating a finishing ability that the first team lacks. So what if they are playing in Outer Mongolia. They are auditioning for the first team, right? Walcott is starting after how many reserve game starts? After how many games at Southhampton under his belt. After how many WC starts for his national team, er strike that. After how many U21 starts? We’re in transition. Wenger is talking a good game about the title being still in reach. Wenger knows. We now know. Maybe we have another diamond in the rough.
November 26th, 2006 at 5:19 am
Very frankly…I thought we had a good game. Yes we lost 3-1 and a team challenging 4 the title cannot lose 3-1. But I thought we looked good second half , didnt get overrun in midfield and competed well with a very physical team. Yes we lost…and thats all that matters in the end. But its not all doom and gloom. We went behind to a pathetic piece of defending of a corner…less than 4 yards I think. I dont know why old Jens couldnt get a hand to Anelka’s goal… irrespective of what I’ve heard anywhere. A great strike no doubt…but I feel he could’ve tipped it over…just. Third goal was pure quality by Le Sulk. So we basically conceded 2 high quality goals and and 1 bad one.
The problem was with our finishing today. Had Freddie scored with the diving header we would’ve won it today..didnt happen though so I’ll shut up.
I however see a lot of positives in this game… last year we didnt compete in games we went behind..this year we are competing. Maybe if this happens again next year…I’ll have a rant…but not yet. Flamini was invisible…now that can be great if we have a clean sheet…coz that would mean he was mighty effective in his job without getting noticed….but when you go down 3-1 its tough.. and people are out to whip you even if you didnt really have a really lousy game.
Walcott was excellent…if he keeps his head he will be a brilliant player. Freddie is gone…sadly … he’s lost that eye for goal. Cessc looked busy and Hleb came on too late and he gave away the third goal…coz he was playing wide left not wide right because Walcott was playing so well there.
AW is making subs better these days … but overall though I rate us up there with Chelsea n ManU talent wise.. the consistency just isnt there… n u cant win the EPL without that. Its not yet completely over…but its getting hard..very very hard.
November 26th, 2006 at 5:54 am
For me, it was a tale of two halves. In the 1st, I saw Arsenal of last season. In the 2nd, I saw Arsenal of this season. But it’s still not good enough. Our two main problems have been recurring themes over this season.
1. Defensive mistakes: It’s true that Toure didn’t cover Faye. But why was Flamini the first person near the post? Shouldn’t it be a tall person to clear the direct shot? Usually, I see Henry and RvP (who lately has made several clearances). It didn’t help that we were playing with Walcott, Ljunberg, Cesc and Flamini against Bolton.
2. Inability to convert chances: Ade missed a chance in the 2nd minute from 6 yards out. It wasn’t an easy one, but that set the tone for the match. Any surprise that our only goal came from a quickly taken corner with Gilberto unmarked? Three times we hit the woodwork. Close, but no cigar. When was the last time we scored the kind of goal Anelka did in the 2nd half? I can’t remember any this season.
Yet again, Walcott showed what pace can do to our team. He was my MOTM. He did tire in the 2nd half, but that’s to be expected. It’s sad that our only pacy option is a 17-year old. Toure and Cesc also looked tired. When is AW going to rest them? If last season is anything to go by, it will be during the crucial end season games.
In terms of personnel, I don’t think we need major changes. Flamini played because Rosicky and Diaby are injured. Ade played because Henry and RvP are injured and Baptista is not yet set into the team. For me, Ljunberg’s best position is on the treatment table.
The only glaring hole in the team is the lack of a left winger. Cole, Pires and Reyes were all replaced by central players. If anything, we must sign a left winger in Jan. Otherwise even switching back to 4-4-2 will not work. It will be interesting to see what formation and team AW uses against Fulham.
The up and down season continues.
November 26th, 2006 at 6:05 am
By the way, here is a very interesting comparison -
05-06 P 13 W 8 D 2 L 3 GF 22 GA 10 GD +12 Pts 26
06-07 P 13 W 6 D 4 L 3 GF 21 GA 10 GD +11 Pts 22
We are actually worse off this season than the last!!!
Not to mention we are still not through in the CL.
November 26th, 2006 at 8:10 am
lol … why did you put that up??? .. why why why … its painful to think what might happen if we lose to Porto….
November 26th, 2006 at 11:05 am
Surprised that Wenger started such a weak team. Ljundberg’s days are numbered. Cannot count on him to beat his man anymore. Too easily outmuscled out of tackles. Eboue shud cut out the play acting and focus on closing down players faster. All 3 goals from Bolton imo could have been averted if there was better marking and better closing down on players. Disappointed with Lehmann for not taking command of the 6yd box resulting in the first goal. Got a stupid yellow card for yelling at the ref. Shud focus on his own game. His poor positiong meant he did not even get a finger on Bolton’s second goal. Our left and right backs while strong going forward are often exposed when an attack breaks down. It was Flamini who lost out in a tackle on our left side that resulted in Bolton’s second goal. And it was Helb’s lack of control on our left side which resulted in Bolton’s third goal. Flamini is great as a squad player but shud realize he is not first choice material in midfield. Plenty of running but lack the touch and ability to carve out chances. Also too easily dispossessed. Adebayor had chances but either hit it straight at the keeper or the post. Walcott is a bright spot for Arsenal with his speed but his lack of experience showed with some of his final balls. Also he did not cover Eboue much in right side defence leaving Eboue exposed too often. Wenger also need to decide where to play Baptista.
Wenger has said Arsenal is out of the EPL running and rightly so. The focus shud be to win the next game and not worry about winning the EPL or anything else. That will placed too much pressure on the team especially the youngsters. Next game is away to Fulham and nothing less than 3 points will redress the bad taste of this defeat.
November 26th, 2006 at 11:22 am
Really, what is the reason Wenger made a permanent switch to the 4-5-1 this season? I know it was successful in Europe last season, but we still used 4-4-2 in the EPL, right? Playing in Europe is different than playing in England anyway.
If our defense is weaker this year, or at least not very deep, then shouldn't we focus o?n scoring as much as possible? And, doesn't that mean that we should be in a scoring formation with more forwards o?n the field?…not to mention the fact that Henry doesn't function as well as a sole forward (according to both AW & TH).
Shouldn't the formation accentuate our strengths? And, as you look at our roster plus all our players o?n loan, isn't that strength supposedly at the forward position?
I know that there were other problems o?n Saturday (and other days), but I recall at the beginning of the season, after some had seen how much space there is at the Emirates, some people were speculating whether or not Arsenal might even move to the 4-3-3. And, instead, we move in the opposite direction with the 4-5-1.
Now, I am a relative novice, so can someone please explain some of these things to me? It seems like the formation is a bit counter-intuitive both to our talent and to our team's goals. Can somebody help me out here? If I'm wrong in my assumptions, please correct me because I am struggling to understand what the team is doing right now. (Again, I'm setting aside other issues like major players out to injury/suspension and our team's youth/inexperience.)
November 26th, 2006 at 4:23 pm
Maybe I look at games through red-tinted glasses but I am not as pessimistic as others here. To an intial glance, a scoreline of 3-1 looks like the same old story, Arsenal pushed around by Bolton. Not so. In other years we have deserved nothing from this game as we haven’t put up a fight and they have overran us. For what it’s worth, yesterday was different. We matched them in the battle, overwhelmed them for the second half, taking control of the game. We suffered from some bad luck and some poor decision-making from the officials. Hitting the woodwork three times. Davies raised his hands to Eboue - straight red card offence despite Eboue’s unacceptable provocation. Anelka offside for the third goal which killed the game when we were dominating. Some comments on individuals and issues.
Jens Lehmann - Lost the head and at fault for the first goal as he should be commanding his area and not be distracted b the Bolton antics
Gael Clichy - Couldn’t cross the ball. Head dropped in last twenty minutes.
Ljungberg - Header aside, looked off the pace, at least he still battled
Gilberto - Covered a huge amount of ground. Really up for it, which leads me to the next one
Spirit - the team kept battling to the end, Fabregas hitting the post in the last minute
Senderos - Clatter a Bolton player in the middle of the park for a yellow card but that epitomised his attitude. Someone here criticised him for picking up two yellow cards sinsce he came back but he showed an ability to keep battling
Walcott - Faded towards the end but showed enough to suggest he should be first sub for the next ten games, coming on with twenty minutes to go.
If there is one thing that has let us down this season, it is finishing. I said it a few weeks ago, get our shots on target, work the goalkeeper and the luck evens itself out. Agaisnt Liverpool we nearly had 100% on target and won with a performance not that different to yesterday’s.
Not all is lost. With the draw today at Old Trafford, we only lost one point on the leaders. We still have a must-win game in hand which may make the table a little misleading. I have no doubt that this team that Wenger is building has the capability of winning the Premiership. The unfortunate thing is that they may only wake up and realise it when it is too late for this season. I see no reason for doom and gloom.
November 26th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
What’s worrying about the current situation is that Wenger publicly aired his belief that Arsenal could win the league this year. He has been proved horribly wrong with the subsequent results.
Every intelligent Arsenal fan knew last season we didn’t have the firepower neeeded to win the league or the midfield replacements to come in and keep our level of football at the level we show when flowing. But Wenger thought otherwise.
Now, under Wenger being an Arsenal fan has been great. But we are currently in a scenario where are manager cannot realise the blatant weaknesses in his squad. He seems to over-estimate every squad member and he has been proved wrong too often by those he has admirably placed a great deal of faith in.
These flaws in Wenger have always been evident in his nine years at arsenal but the money spent by Man United and Chelsea and their subsequent improvement has exposed and highlighted these chinks even more.
It could be time for Wenger to leave Arsenal. I don’t want him too but I fear the man himself might realise he is in an environment where his philosophy is out-dated and rendered defenceless in the face of Man United and Chelsea’s quality and wealth. At least over the long haul of a domestic season.
People defend Wenger on this count by pointing out the fact that Chelsea and United indeed have more money to spend on players. However Wenger would likely never buy these players even if he had the money. He takes pleasure from grooming talent, not obtaining the finished article. His vision of football is being shown in its rawest form with the current Arsenal side. We can all see where we stand with that and where we reside does fit Wenger’s dream of domestic and european domination.
I fear if results do not improve Wenger might call it day. Most fans are content with relative domestic mediocrity. Wenger is not. That could prove the deciding factor.
Let’s hope Arsenal get consistency. Alot of this is Wenger’s fault, but alot of it is players letting him down on a depressingly consistent basis. He deserves more and let’s hope he gets it before he makes a possibly momentous decision.
November 26th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
Yeah, On your bike Arsene!
Ummmm… I don’t think he’s going anywhere. Its HIS team, with HIS young talent that he has accumulated. Its his fault if we fail, and he is the reason if we succeed. He has the team he wants. He doesn’t want any players coming in during the January window, he’s happy.
I think he is too stubborn, and will stick to his guns regardless of the results. Look at the results against Bolton. They keep doing the same things and beating us EVERY TIME. Yet Wenger doesn’t adapt.
Things change quickly in sports, week to week in football. Let’s hope we have a good run of games. Have to advance in the CL, or the season is an absolute FAILURE.
November 26th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
You always stir the pot Mazza?.good on you. I stopped listening to Wenger long ago?.he just doesn?t give anything away to the media. In fact he uses them like they use him.
Wenger will stay unless he has had enough.
Winning mangers are rare, incredibly rare.
Winning mangers whose teams play with style are rarer still.
Look at Ferguson, he has been living off past glories for the last few seasons but even Man Utds new dispassionate owners kept him on.
The outlook for a club trying to replace a winning manager is too horrible to imagine.
We look more likely NOT to score than to score?..that?s are problem.
The defence is coping criticism but in my humble opinion that?s bollocks.
All season we have put them under the pump by woeful striking.
Now the lack of goals is in the teams ?mind? and we are on the back foot from the start of games even when we dominate the opposition in terms of possession and chances.
If we converted a few of our chances early and scored first more often we would look a different team?.an ominous team. And the confidence would return and a run would be likely.
So why aren?t we converting chances?
A few thoughts:
1. Henry is having a poor season, so far, by his standards. Had to happen sooner or later. He?s probably feeling all lonely. No Vieira, no Pires, no Bergkamp. Almost paradoxically he seemed to thrieve on the small Highbury pitch and looks all at sea at the more expansive Emirates.
2. RvP should be on the right not the left. On the left he clashes with Henry (like Reyes). Henry keeps drifting into his territory and wants RvP to play to him. Stick him on the right (where he plays for Holland) and the problem goes away.
3. No second goal scorer. Pires has gone. No one has replaced him?.yet.
4. Adebayor is looking more awkward than interesting lately. Doesn?t look a likely source of goals.
5. The injury to Baptista was bad timing. We needed him to impose himself sooner?.particularly given the lack of goals.
6. I really like the look of Hleb and Rosicky but alas as yet they aren?t regular goal contributors.
7. Ljungberg has ?gone?, no goals, no runs, no penetration, no nothin.
8. Team structure?.at this stage it looks like Wenger is in no-mans-land. He loves 4-4-2 but the personnel aren?t mature enough to employ it. He swings to 4-5-1 but we lack a natural no.1. It looks like it will take us all season to figure out how to play on the bigger Emirates pitch.
November 26th, 2006 at 10:31 pm
Wenger uses the media to address his players, not us. His statements are design to boost the psyche of his young team.
Some further thoughts on your first point concerning Henry. If I’m Henry, I’m thinking: “damn, I f**ked up” signing that extension. Wenger brings in Gallas and Baptista and that was supposed to “comfort” me. We’re playing 4-5-1 and I’m not getting the ball from Fabregas or anyone else for that matter. I’m lost in the vastness of the Emirates. I’m 29 yo and I’m on a team in “transition”. What trophies can I realistically win with this team at this point in my career? If I’d gone to Barcelona, I’d be starting(with Eto’o injured) in a 4-4-2 (with Gudjohnsen) and getting clever 1-2s from Ronaldinho. I would be running at 1 or 2 defenders and not 10 in the box. Life would be grand again.
November 27th, 2006 at 12:25 am
I put this up simply because even though our performances have improved over last season, our results haven’t and that’s what really matters at the end of the day.
November 27th, 2006 at 12:34 am
Those who live by the sword die by it. Wenger’s stubbornness is both his strength and his weakness. Only time will tell if sticking to his policy will yield results. If the past is anything to go by, then he will succeed. Although, the past also suggests that he will not be able to have sustained success.
“the man himself might realise he is in an environment where his philosophy is out-dated and rendered defenceless”
If he does realise it, then why doesn’t he change?
November 27th, 2006 at 1:09 am
Did anyone watch ManU vs Chelsea? That game showed exactly what Arsenal are lacking at the moment
1. Pace: ManU have it in abundance - Rooney, Saha, Ronaldo, Giggs. Chelsea too have it when they need it - Robben, Joe Cole, SWP. Arsenal have Henry (who, for various reasons, hasn’t shown it this season) and Walcott (who is 17). In our quest to play continental football, we seem to have sacrificed pace completely. We have forgotten that pace always works in the Premiership. Without it, we are unable to use Henry effectively.
2. Ability to deal with headers and corners: Terry, Carvalho, Ferdinand and Vidic were giants in the game. ManU and Chelsea defend and attack corners so much better than us. Our defence has improved a lot but we are still lacking in this particular area.
3. Character/Mental Strength: Look no further than Saha. He missed a crucial penalty against Celtic which has hurt ManU’s CL chances. But he coolly slots a wonderful goal against Chelsea in the biggest game of the season. I have been arguing that our teams lacks mental strength, partly because many are young and partly because many others just don’t have it.
November 27th, 2006 at 2:39 am
I keep thinking– what about moving some players in the spine of our team forward one line– move Toure to Center Half to play alongside Gilberto (Kolo used to be a midfielder anyway, and he dribbles pretty well on his runs up the middle), and move Fabregas to a withdrawn striker role (to replace Bergkamp) to play alongside Henry. Keep Gallas at center back, with Djourou (not Senderos, unless one of the other two is hurt/suspended).
Then push Van Persie out to the right wing, and use Hleb on the left wing. Try Eboue at the left back with Hleb at left wing, once Lauren returns. Use Rosicky to spell Fabregas, van Persie, Hleb, and even Gilberto (on occasions where the other team is parking 10 men in front of their goal, and not threatening ours at at all.)
This lineup would keep Fabregas in the center of the field setting up our best goal scorers (Henry, Van Persie), while allowing us to get more muscle (Kolo) into center midfield. It also would allow Kolo to get off a few more Lampard-like shots from 30 yards out– Kolo has to have the hardest shot of anyone I have seen in the Premiere League… I think he would be good for at least as many goals as Vieira was, over the course of a season. And we’d still have two good, fast center backs (plus more height) in the back, with Gallas paired with Djourou.
November 27th, 2006 at 2:45 am
I tried to say this last spring, when everybody was so full of their hate of Ashley Cole that they couldn’t wait to be rid of him and replace him with Clichy: Clichy is nowhere near Cole’s class as a threat going forward on the wing–either on his own or working in tandem with the wing on his side. Clichy’s speed allows him to do nearly as well as Cole in defending people (though I don’t think Clichy deals with physical players as well as Cole does), but Clichy is a big step down from Cole offensively.
Everyone here kept saying that we could just slot Clichy in, and he would be every bit as good as Cole, or better. I thought that was nonsense then, and I think it has been shown to be nonsense now. Clichy will be lucky if he is ever as good as Cole was 2 years ago.
That said, I’d still rather have Gallas than Cole– because of his versatility and durability. I’d just have rather gotten Gallas and kept Cole too–though I realize that Chelsea probably never would have sold us Gallas, if we hadn’t been willing to sell them Cole.
November 27th, 2006 at 2:50 am
Not that I give a rat’s ass that he is Wright’s son or that he is English, but if Arsenal really were interested in Wright-Phillips, and if they do decide that they need another true winger (especially of W-P can play on the left side, since we already have Walcott for the future on the right), then Wenger ought to be in with a shout for the W-P sweepstakes… we would have been prepared to pay considerably more than 10 million pounds for W-P, back when Chelsea bought him, so we ought to be willing to steal in with a higher bid than that to keep Chelsea from selling him to West Ham (though we may be forced, by Chelsea’s fear of selling to dangerous rival, to bid considerably more than West Ham to get W-P over West Ham’s bid.)
November 27th, 2006 at 4:39 am
I’m sure Henry struggled with those thoughts before he made his decision to stay.
But he believes in Wenger’s vision of Arsenal Mk3, and thinks it is sooner rather than later.
I do too.
November 27th, 2006 at 6:37 am
Arsenal is full of quality. It has more quality than any other team besides maybe Chelsea and Man United. And this is clearly seen by our ability to always top the possesion charts. What Arsenal does lack though is experience. One of the hardest things seems to putting the ball past the keeper. How many times has the ball struck the post or gone wide or been mis-kicked or poorly controlled. Besides Henry there is no single Arsenal player with the composure or intelligence to get into the box and put one past the keeper and that’s why so many times we hear people say Henry is unrealiable, or lazy or he should be sold. That has never been Henry’s game. He doesn’t play like Van Nistelrooy.If you want someone to blame the youth.
Look at the team that went unbeaten. If Henry didnt score, Pires or Vieira did and even Ljunberg still had it in him. The team used to move with such menace that everytime Arsenal was on the break, the opposing team would be left to stare and wonder. Henry has never been a box player and with the movement of Pires, Ljunberg and Vieira, and the touch of Dennis Bergkamp he didn’t need to. Pires was our Van Nistelrooy, our poacher. But now that he is gone, we look to Henry and hope he does the same (run into the box and head or make a tap in).
Fabregas cannot be compared to Vieira just yet, he is still developing. Vieira had the ability to conduct play and control the game. Arsenal don’t have a player in the capacity of Vieira.
Adebayor doesn’t have the best instincts. Maybe he will develop but as for now he is not yet there. Baptista seems lost. Van Persie is being played out of position most of the time, Walcott is explosive but still has a lot to learn. Then midfield is excellent when it comes to holding the ball and the passing game but they don’t offer that much to the attack. Rosicky is still finding his feet (could be the next Pires). The defense is okay but it has too much youth to start comparing it to the likes of Adams and Co..
Let’s stop comparing this team to that of Vieira, Pires, Bergkamp, Cole, Henry and the like. This is a new age and it’s going to be a while before this team becomes just as brilliant. Wenger is building his team. So let’s be patient and keep the faith that some day we’ll be up there. Let’s just hope we get make it far in the champions league and maybe we could struggle and win a champions league place. Then maybe next year when the kids have grown, we can hope for more. Don’t expect too much from this team. They are still learning.
November 27th, 2006 at 6:42 am
Wright Phillips would have been great, but our problem is not that we lack wingers, we simply didn’t replace our lost midfielders properly. Compare Pires..Vieira..Bergkamp to Rosicky…Fabregas….Adebayor
The kids are great but they still have a lot to learn so we shouldn’t expect too much
It’s just not the same..
November 27th, 2006 at 6:49 am
Exactly !!!
If he keeps to the same philosophy, it’s very that Arsenal will never be consistent.
I totally agree.
November 27th, 2006 at 7:06 am
Can you name any one player that was replaced by someone capable of performing at the same level ? I know I can’t…
Bergkamp -> Adebayor (wat a joke)
Pires -> Rosicky (maybe, maybe not)
Vieira -> Fabregas (hmm..)
Cole -> Clichy (someone already talked about this)
Ljunberg(B4 last season) -> Hleb (not even close)
Campbell -> Gallas (ok)
Lauren -> Eboue (forget going forward, Lauren was a better defender)
November 27th, 2006 at 7:31 am
Agree. It’s too early to tell on Baptista.
November 27th, 2006 at 7:50 am
blob, it’s difficult to compare it this way. First of all, the previous generation of players didn’t exactly light up the world when they first joined the club, apart from Vieira.
Remember since 98, we went 3 years without a single trophy. They too had experienced the struggling just like the current side. Not until 2002 they finally jelled into a powerful winning team.
The current set of players, not only most of them are young, many of them only been in the club and played with each other for one or two seasons.
So we will have to wait and see how good they turn out to be individually, and more importantly as a team in the next couple years before we can make a conclusion.
November 27th, 2006 at 7:55 am
I’ve been crying out for pace. Fabregas does not bring pace to our attack. That’s why Henry is being starved for service in this 4-5-1 attack. I hope Merida is not in the Fabregas mold considering he’s from Spain.
Crashley had Ronaldo in his hip pocket all game. That was a masterclass in FB defense that our FBs need to study.
Carvalho’s set play defense consists of committing fouls and getting away with them. The other guys are immense on set play defense. We’ve conceded early goals in 8 games so far. There is no reason to think that will change. Fulham will start McBride who specializes in set piece goals. Will we cover him? What do you think? Why is this even a ? Fulham 2-1 and McBride scores.
November 27th, 2006 at 8:01 am
SWP will need a year to rehab his game. He is totally lacking in confidence when he comes into games now. He’s not beating people. He’s losing the ball. He’s a disaster right now.
November 27th, 2006 at 8:04 am
When you’re right, you’re right.
November 27th, 2006 at 8:14 am
I’ve been asking for pace too but not for Cesc to be replaced. We need to support him with pacy wingers.
Cole didn’t become a good defender overnight. He started out just like Clichy or Eboue - strong in attack but weak in defence. I can only hope that Clichy and Eboue improve in the same manner.
Yes, Carvalho is a dirty player. According to many, so was Vieira. But both got the job done. That is all that matters.
Funnily, considering the up and down season we are having, I think we will win at Fulham. But after that, it could be a draw against Spurs at the Emirates and a loss at Chelsea.
November 27th, 2006 at 8:31 am
he won’t change for the reasons you mentioned. Stubborness.
November 27th, 2006 at 8:38 am
Fabregas at 18 or 19 is twice the player Vieira is in europe. Vieira couldn’t hold a candle to him in europe.
League. Another story. Fabregas not as effective as Vieira. By a distance. He could be if he could just shoot.
November 27th, 2006 at 9:52 am
You are right about Cesc’s shooting. I noticed that his shots are usually on target but too weak. If only he can pack some power into this shot, he could be like Lampard. Power like Eboue did against Hamburg.
November 27th, 2006 at 12:33 pm
Absolutely correct Andez. People here are so impatient, and even worse - thick at the best of times. Do you really think Wenger is going to come out at the start of the season and say, “we have no chance of winning anything with these kids”? What would THAT do to their confidence?
The FACT is, Arsenal do not have the money to compete with Chelsea or Man Utd, or even Liverpool, Tottenham or Newcastle. Wenger HAS to buy youth and turn good players into gold. It simply cannot be achieved overnight, and if you look at the squad you can see a lot of young players who are simply not ready yet. The team needs time to gel as well, Rosicky, Adebayor, Baptista, Diaby have only been at the club a short while. Look at Hleb, I think now he is starting to come through, the others will too - but it will take time.
What Wenger says in public and what he thinks in private are too very different things, the problem is that some stupid Arsenal fans fall for his rhetoric. They think that when he says Arsenal can challenge, we WILL challenge, but Wenger is simply being optimistic and positive for the sake of the young players at the club. I have criticised Wenger before, but not now, because I have the brains to see the difference between a team that is READY but underperforming and one that is not ready and underperforming.
Too many of you sound like a bunch of bloody glory hunters sometimes, maybe that’s because you have only ever known success, or are plain greedy for it. Or maybe you simply know nothing about football whatsoever. Like the prats who keep saying Davies should have been sent off for his shove on Eboue, when the fact is the directives have changed and this season a push below the face or head is now a yellow card offence NOT red. The referee was perfectly correct to only book him. Maybe you should look at Eboue, humiliating the club with his ridiculous rolling around - I’m getting sick of this little berk and his play acting. I’d rather he go play for Chelsea than watch this absurd crap from him week in week out.
So come on, stop all this bloody bleating and get behind Wenger. If the situation is the same this time next year, with no sign of improvement then maybe there will be something to complain about. You think it’s so damn easy don’t you? Sitting in your comfy armchairs, haven’t got a clue about anything most of you.
November 27th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
I agree with the substance of DannyT’s analysis in almost every respect but would lower the volume/tone/rhetoric a few notches. It appears to me as well that “Arsenal do[es] not have the money to compete with Chelsea or Man Utd, or even Liverpool, Tottenham or Newcastle” but why is that? Arsenal’s old stadium sat near 40,000, its ticket prices (at least based on this year’s listed prices) are the highest by far in the EPL, and it sells alots of jerseys. What’s the reason for the fact that it does not seem to have the resources of not just Chelsea and ManU but Liverpool, Tottenham and Newcastle? Does anyone have a clue?
November 27th, 2006 at 2:56 pm
“If the situation is the same this time next year, with no sign of improvement then maybe there will be something to complain about”
Danny, I swear you said that last season.
Anyway, I disagree with your belief that Wenger just said those things to spur on the players. Wenger has no time for transitionary seasons, he’s stated that many times before. He boldy announced he wanted to win everything this season and I’m certain he meant it. He wouldn’t say it if he didn’t mean it. Look at his track record- he never says things in public just for the sake of it, at least when it comes to our chances of success. After all, before our unbeaten season he said we would go undefeated and it backfired and we did the year after.
Why did he admit defeat in the title race after the Bolton game if he was worried about sending negative vibes to the players? Most managers actually like to play down their teams chances and it sometimes works wonders. Wenger was very cautious and understated before Arsenal’s champions league games last season.
No, this year he meant what he publicly said, roused by some of the potential we showed in certain games, and he won’t accept this domestic mediocrity for long.
I don’t mind it, I remember the latter Graham days. But I’m talking about Wenger here.
Also, the financial argument is valid, but we all know Wenger loves bringing players through and is reluctant to spend big at the best of times. Even we he does he buys people who are about 7 years old. So, even with money, Wenger would still likely be sticking by his principles and choosing a kid over a 27 year old.
November 27th, 2006 at 3:01 pm
Because Highbury did not generate enough income to do much more than pay the massive wages for the disproportionate amount of world class players Arsenal had. Now, having moved stadiums Arsenal has a massive debt around its neck - so it will take time to clear that, mainly via the housing project being built at the old ground - it will take 5 years before we’re a truly rich club.
Liverpool has more fans and a much bigger worldwide presence. Newcastle and Tottenham never had a wage bill like Arsenal, you can’t discount the millions upon millions spent on wages, it all gets subtracted from the transfer purse.
November 27th, 2006 at 3:40 pm
Wenger has never had buckets of money, so I don’t think it’s fair to suggest he wouldn’t spend it if he had it - that’s pure speculation, although obviously a possibility. Besides, he has already proved that you don’t necessarily need buckets of money, until now at least, because Chelsea have torn up the rulebook and put everything on another level.
Regarding the ‘undefeated’ tag. As you should know, Wenger was misquoted by the press - someone asked him if Arsenal could go undefeated and he said it’s possible. Watford could go undefeated, it’s possible, but doesn’t mean it’s going to happen, so it’s a bit unfair to pick up on that, otherwise you’re no better than those tacky journalists looking for a story.
Of course Wenger wanted to win everything, he still wants to win everything, but he can’t. You should know how he operates by now, he will never criticise unless he has to, and he understands the psychology of the players well enough to know that talking the up is far more effective than talking them down.
After the Bolton game he admitted defeat, because mathematically there wasn’t a great deal else he could say was there? Everyone knew it was over and it would be ridiculous to say otherwise. But whilst the mathematical difference was not too distant, he needed to keep the players focused and confidence up.
Sometimes I think you forget exactly what he’s done for this club. You really need to look at the bigger picture. Of course he has made mistakes, what manager hasn’t? But right not he is building his 3rd generation Arsenal team, and it doesn’t help that fans are attacking him and showing such lack of class - especially after everything he has done for Arsenal. A few bad seasons is acceptable in my book - although qualifying for the Champions League 10 years running isn’t exactly criminal management is it?
November 27th, 2006 at 3:41 pm
Unless you have real numbers comments comparing Arsenals resources to other clubs are a tad meaningless.
But it is a fact that we have implemented a huge long-term project being the Emirates Stadium. Building the stadium was just the start. Repaying the debt is a major objective for Arsenal and will continue to be for many years. It means Arsenal will always be particularly cost/benefit conscious when it comes to major player investments. Why? Because they have a very valid option for investment ? that is to repay their debt.
Thankfully we have the world?s most financially astute manager when it comes to building a squad. Wenger has never been a buyer of big-name high-price players. It simply doesn?t excite him. In a football sense he gets his kicks out of developing his team not buying players ready-made. Therefore any argument about cash availability needs to be seen in that light.
As an aside, let?s remember that comparisons to Chelsea are futile?.they operate in a world of financial fantasy where they cherry pick who they want with a Russian chequebook. There is no sense of ?the club? generating income and buying from its profits ? Wenger said it beautifully, it?s financial doping. And it bends the whole competition out of shape.
November 27th, 2006 at 4:02 pm
Mazza, Wenger has always played the media.
Occasionally he will drop in a little gem, an insight into his MO, but that is rare. He protects his players, even when they are out of order. He publicly praises some aspect of their game even when fans think they need a good kick up the backside.
You really can?t interpret what he says publicly as what he thinks?.or you?ll likely come to the conclusion he?s a simpleton.
Wenger would have hoped that this season would see a title challenge, but he would understand that team development is an art not a science. You can?t schedule it to coincide with the EPL calendar. It all depends on the sum of the parts?.a mix of individual progress, team cohesiveness and avoiding injury.
November 27th, 2006 at 5:21 pm
The realists say that adjusting to a new stadium, gelling all the arrivals of the last 18 months (Gallas, Rosicky, Denilson, Baptista, Adebayor, Eboue, Walcott, Hleb, Diaby etc) and playing with a young team (Van Perise, Clichy, Senderos, Djourou etc) would mean that Arsenal would struggle to win anything this season but would be better than last year and would qualify for the Champions League. Next season would see a big improvement.
The optimists acknowledge all of these points but felt they would be overcome and with copius amounts of luck a challenge for one of more trophies could be made.
The pessimists say that too much has changed too soon and there will not be enough time for the team to gel and it will be several seasons before we challenge.
The surrealists believe we have a divine right to win every game, think Wenger should have bought three or four more new players, played Aliadiere in every game, dumped Adebayor before he had played himself in, kept Cole and Reyes, identified ten departures and arrivals for the January window etc.
I would classify myself as an optimist as I believe this team will come good and quicker than the realists believe. However, so far, the realists look like they have got it right. As for the pessimists and the surrealists, I fear the thoughts of the former and laugh at the thoughts of the latter.
November 27th, 2006 at 9:59 pm
There was a very detailed article posted on the Guardian Unlimited (I believe) that explained how Arsenal would pay off the stadium’s debt. There were several take home messages in the article. 1. Sellouts are essential 2. We need Champions League revenues 3. We will maintain a minimum of 5mil(a year) for transfers. Depending on revenues, player sales, etc. this amount can increase but it will never be less. That is because our creditors realise that a healthy club needs transfer funds.
November 27th, 2006 at 10:00 pm
The top managers today used the media as a TOOL. The things they said they were not saying to the fans. They are secured enough to use the media to please the fans.
Arsenal has a young team, and what we need most at the moment is perhaps the self-belief among the youngsters, as they cleary got the talent. By saying Arsenal could win the league, I believe AW was trying to inject that self-belief into the players more than anything else.
The same things top managers like Wenger, Ferguson often did at the past. Even when they were far behind from the league leaders, they always insisted their teams still got a chance.
Were they lived in an illusion? Were they fear to face the reality? I don’t think so. As a leader, you have to put on a brave face, in particular facing the media. Whether they really believe what they said deep inside is another matter. But they can’t show sign of a shaking belief in their own players, if they do, it would kill the players’ morale and confidence.
November 27th, 2006 at 10:51 pm
I recall the article, or at least one similar.
Don’t want to contradict you ctpa but there is no way that sellouts are essential nor that we need CL football every year.
Whilst both of these things are hugely desirable to ensure we repay the loan and grow the club without undue pressure, there is no way the lending consortium would lend us that type of money if our position was so perilous.
From what I have read, from a number of sources including the clubs CEO, Arsenal can be without CL football and be at less than 100% capacity and STILL service its debt.
The simple message is though….the sooner we start paying down chunks of that debt the better we will be and the more able we will be to focus on the playing side of the business. If 1 or 2 more Nic Anelka’s were to come along, spit the dummy, and be sold at a profit of 22m each then we’d look a lot better.
November 27th, 2006 at 11:01 pm
Well said Andez.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:40 am
This game should be perfect to switch back to 4-4-2. We have an excellent record at Fulham. I read on premierleague.com that we have won all 5 games at Fulham. Their ground is small, so it should suit us better. They are not a very physical team, so we may not need five in the middle. But they are good in the air, so I hope we can eliminate those kind of mistakes.
November 28th, 2006 at 6:17 am
Fabregas is weak physically so don’t expect him to start driving Kolo-like strikes at goal. We just have to hope that he puts on some more muscle as time goes by…
November 28th, 2006 at 6:20 am
That’s exactly my point. It’s going to take a while before we match up to the once so mighty Arsenal…. These are kids and they need time…
November 28th, 2006 at 6:25 am
I know. I am not criticising him. I hope he can pack some power in the future.
November 28th, 2006 at 6:29 am
Too quick to judge as usual….
You say Arsenal is lacking in funds, but you have to admit there have been times when Wenger has been given enough to get some experience into the team but he chooses to rely on his approach of building from raw material. Wenger is not known to buy finished products. I thought you a concrete Arsenal fan would know this…..
I know that Wenger built from scratch to earn what he did and he intends on doing the same thing. My main point is that we shouldn’t expect too much because the team is still raw and in the building process….
November 28th, 2006 at 6:46 am
The last time we lost to Fulham was 1966 (I think) and it was 1-0…..Hopefully Henry returns because he has scored six goals in eight Premiership appearances against Fulham (five in the last three) which could probably see him top the goal scoring charts should he shine..