I wonder what excuse Wenger will have this time… can’t blame the new stadium (cuz we’re playing away)… can’t blame the opposition putting 11-men behind the ball (they outshot us 17-8 playing OUR attacking game)… can’t blame injuries because we have TH, RVP, and Rosicky back…
We’ve either got to take the captaincy from Henry or give him a striker partner. If we don’t do something, our results will continue to go as they’ve been since Paddy left. We’ve got no cutting edge and teams know that. They know if they can score at least one goal, their likely to get something from the game. Why, because Arsenal can play pretty football but they can’t score for shite.
Arsenal are all bark and no bite. This is the first time in the Wenger era that he’s had a toothless team and he needs to recognize that and do something about it. He’s got to sharpen that dull-ass cutting edge that he’s created before he loses the belief in the team. The writing was on the wall last year when we were lucky as crap to even make the CL. Now more teams are wise to us and results are tougher to come by. Now’s the time for him to make his money.
I love Henry - he’s my favourite player but he’s been missing some excellent changes (including today). As they say, “Form is Temporary but Class is Permanent” but Henry’s form is troubling to say the least.
Just like last year, Fourth place is all I want … everything else is a bonus.
I don’t want to see Wenger buy some potential talent in January, I would like some grit that has Premiership experience. When you start someone like Song - it’s a joke … he has no business in the first team. Why not play Flamini in the middle if you are resting Cesc and rotate Clichy later? This typical November downturn is creeping into December.
First goal by Fulham shud never have happen. Lehmann made a mess of the glancing header by McBride by diverting the header away from Flamini who could have cleared the header. Lehmann’s form is poor for this game and the last one - Wenger shud sit him and start Almunia. The last time he did it, it resurrected Lehmann’s form and Arsenal’s as well.
Oh dear. Haven’t seen this. Don’t know if I want to. Apparently Van Persie’s free-kick was brilliant. I doubt there is anything else positive about this.
Not surprised Clichy and Eboue were dropped. Hoyte is not as good going forward but is slightly more solid (doesn’t give away quite as many chances) than Eboue while Clichy’s head appeared to drop at the weekend. I am mystified at Song playing. Fabregas needed a rest, but play Baptista or Ljungberg instead with Rosicky if necessary in the centre rather than playing Song. I wonder is something wrong inside the club.
It’s the same story with Arsenal in the last few seasons. We drop points in games we don’t deserve to, our confidence goes to pot, and then we actually lose games we deserve to lose. It’s the same old fuckin story before we have a turning point and then we pick up. I’m even struggling to forsee a possible turning point at this juncture. That’s how bad it seems now.
Has anyone noticed how our defence has turned into an even more shambolic mess since Senderos came back? As I stated all summer, that guy is shite and is no where near good enough for Arsenal. How he got ahead of Djourou i’ll never know. At least Djourou has all the basic attributes already and only needs to improve concentration. Senderos is screwed because he is as mobile as a cruise liner and daft as a brush.
Again, Wenger has completely misjudged the stength of his squad. We fans knews that, the feckin eskimos knew it, but not Wenger. The more someone shows how crap they are, the more Wenger twists reality to convince himself they are good.
If he manages to steady the ship from here I’ll give him great credit. But it won’t happen before we lose to the spuds and Chelsea. The latter could be a humiliation with our aerial negiligence. Chelsea could easily win that 5-0.
i think the main thing is that wenger is just not such a great tactician. neither does he choose his teams well.
am not critising him and all - his system is great and when on form his teams play wonderful football but he just doesnt get in-game tactics, lineups and formations right!
why on EARTH were we still playing 4-5-1 against FULHAM OF ALL TEAMS who play 4-4-2 ??? for almost a decade he absolutely REFUSED to try anything else apart from 4-4-2 even in situations where another formation might have helped. but now that he has started it he just wont budge again. is he thaaaaat slow to change???
now for the team selections! he made SEVEN changes to the lineup. most of them absurd: flamini, hoyte and song have absolutely no business here. why rest BAPTISTA and clichy - dont they need GAMES after such a long time out. both of these players havent played internationals in a while so they cant be “tired”.
hoyte wont play for watford. and i would rather we played 16 yr old merida than song - at least there will be some creativity. song is just a waste. why play TWO defensive mids in a 4-5-1 against fulham of all people.
lets put back 2 upfront. henry is USELESS alone upfront and RvP in midfield is a waste.
its sadly ironic that with senderos we are conceeding corners and crosses MORE than usual. and thats supposed to be his strength since he?s as slow as an oil tanker.
Pires is the last player who would get us out of this, he hides when the going gets tough - that’s why he was sold.
Things are going to get a lot worse. I think the confidence has gone at the back and we’re in real trouble now. I think we will lose to Tottenham, because we haven’t the leaders or the character to pull us out of the mire just yet, funnily enough I think we will get enough at Porto - because it’s Europe, but then I think Chelsea will roll us over.
It’s all about 4th place and the team pulling together and growing up fast. Need the old guard in there and to stay fit, which means Lauren and Gallas surving the season unscathed when they return. Gilberto was atrocious tonight by allk accounts, Song even worse.
I also think Djorou should have gone straight back in ahead of Senderos, because Senderos has mad mistakes in the past and Djourou hasn’t. It’s going to be a bit painful to watch, but we have to stick at it - no point slaughtering Wenger week in week out. After 10 years he IS going to have a real stinker of a season - and he deserves our backing every inch for what he’s done for this club.
I’m not saying that support should be indefinite, but he’s lost the plot a bit and everyone needs to show him some gratitude when he needs it most. Not just run him down and desert him.
Agreed on your points regarding AW. He deserves every chance to sort this out. In my humble opinion, we need some more steel in the side. I know Wenger is trying to create a beautiful team that plays flowing football. But most of his previous sides combined attractive, positive football with a large amount of toughness. Toure and Gallas are the only two tough tacklers on this squad. Perhaps Diaby will add something when he returns. But his future has to be very much in doubt after the horrific injury. I can’t think of too many players they can pursue that fit the description. I guess, if there is anyone that can find them, it will be Arsene. Hopefully, the budget isn’t too constrained due to the stadium debt.
One more thought…..isn’t it scary how much Senderos moves around and plays like Cygan. If we have to sell in order to buy, I think Senderos should go. I know he is young. But I don’t think he will ever have the pace to make it at Arsenal.
No doubt Wenger has lost the plot momentarily, although there have been signs he’s been slowly losing it for a while. His managerial philosophy is getting a bit blurred. On a wider context it’s highly unlikely he would have ever won a title without players inherited from george graham. Anyway, that’s another story.
But he’s just making plain wrong managerial decisions. Senderos ahead of Djourou. Wrong. Flamini. Song. Wrong.
These are players who are actually just average. Simple as that. All this crap about Arsenal having the talent and not having enough fight is rubbish. We have talent of course, but not nearly enough of it.
Our midfield was anaemic tonight and warmed up too late again. Gilberto’s passing was atrocious but then it often is. His passing is so consistently crap that no one mentions it anymore. Just part of the Gilberto package. Human error mistakes like his and others just keep killing us.
Its our deffense. We thought that we got all with Gallas. When he is out, we are fu*ked. Sendy is just not the same one we had last year. Why Rest Clichy and play Flamini there … Why play a non LB in the LB position and we LB available. Yes Clichy played like shite.
Song was mistake to play … Play Beast or do something different. Play 4-4-2. 2 quick stupid goals. Arsenal’s Backline is a joke …
Senderos, WHY. Honestly what are you thinking at a lost for words.
When is Wenger going to realize that if you play Flamini anywhere on the pitch he will fail, He has Bapista Walcott,and Denilson, why even keep Flamini after he got Bapista he should have put Flamini on loan.
Song why is he out there instead of Bapista after Wenger says “the best is yet to come from him” THEN PLAY HIM, the man is a beast and everyone now knows after the Bolton game to beat us all you have to do is be physcial and you put Song out. That one is on you A-Dub
Note to Lehman, when the ball goes in the net, whether its your fault or not, stop blaming others it doesn’t look good. And it makes you look like a fool and makes me think that we should do everything we can to get Buffon in the summer transfer window if Juve (which now doesn’t look like its going to happen) doesn’t move up to Seria A.
Who else was screaming at their TV “SHOOT THE F**king Ball”
How’s this for irony last week it was the curse of the ex (anekla) and this week its the curse of our american BMB that does us in.
From here ovb Champions league, I hear Gallas will be match fit. we need to win or or tie, thank god its not at home , by the way can we still move back to Highbury, just a thought
No. Henry will only get pissed off and Toure was abysmal tonight, so why heap more pressure on him? Just leave it. I would advocate giving it to Gilberto, but he only turns up every other game.
The least of Arsenal’s problems is who is wearing an black armband. Leadership should come from player performances, and you need more than 1 - at the moment we have none.
The going doesn’t get “tough” at Fulham.
This is the type of game Pires SCORED in.
He never hid from anything. Just scored big goals and meshed well with Henry.
sure, we’re all with you…
piss Henry off … when we need him to step up most.
Get real. There isn’t anyone on the team who really deserves it right now.
Understandable, but if you look at it this way Gilberto has off games and he’s not if I can say the warrior that Toure is out there who is solid. Tonight maybe not and that anelka goal was his fault for not playing him closer. About Henry crying, look its evident that he is not playing the same as usual. He can say that he i misses highbury. meaningless, He know’s he is not playing well the team is the furtherest back ever, where is the King to pull us out of this. It pains me to say this but I for the first time in a while scare of our game against the f*cking hotspurs
I guess I’ll get my two cents in (or is it pence) on this game.
“Houston (Arsenal), we have a problem.” Redux.
This was the worse game I’ve seen Arsenal play ever. We became a long ball team. That is the ultimate insult for an Arsenal team. We were exposed as clueless mid-table fodder. Everything from team selection to the lack of execution in the final third was horrendous. Arsenal fans will earn their “red badge of courage” this year.
I predicted before this game that Fulham would win 2-1. I predicted a set piece goal from Brian McBride. I take no pleasure in having got those predictions right. Arsenal letting in an early first goal from a set play is like death and taxes.
I want very much to launch a expletive filled attack on many of the same players I’ve attacked before. I will not be repeating myself in this post. The usual suspects were all front and centerstage. Those of you who have tried to defend your favorites simply will not be able to after this display. I will say that Hoyte’s defense in the second half saved two goals. That’s the best I can do. There was a new face today: Song. I won’t go there. It’s just too easy. Diaby’s injury now looms even larger. We are waiting for Baptista. Do not look for help in the January window. I do not want help in the January window. I want the players we have to get their collective ‘quality’ asses in gear.
I am worried about our future because we are now worse than we were last year at this time. This is a pivotal time for Arsenal. There is an 800lb guerilla in the room and it is our stadium debt. Our continue lack of success on the field will have repercussions far beyond our standing at season’s end.
I think Pissing off Henry is good thing since we’re not really getting the Henry of old out of him (Yes, the Newcastle goal was great) but what about West Ham and Fulham. Teams like that you look to the skipper to pull out a win. I sorry if he gets pissed but you know what this is a first and fore most a business and sport your not playing well, then sorry you don’t deserve it, I know what he’s done I LOVE HIM next to God, but if he can’t get over not being skipper and go out and do his job.
good point about the transfer window. I did want Ribery to come here so bad or Torres, but now I think they should deal with this and there is no way we contend for the league
It might be better to try to bring in some quality or toughness during January. A lot of players say that they are attracted to teams because of the prospect of playing European football. If things continue as they are; this summer we may face the prospect of no European football next fall. Almost a catch 22. No matter what AW says now, he may have to bring in a couple of players. The writing is on the wall.
What a disaster we’re dealing with….I am nauseated thinkin about it….
I am not going to rehash our defensive problems; we know we have them (Senderos being slow, Hoyte being bad, Eboue mis-positioning, etc. etc)…..but here is something to chew on:
We haven’t score from open play in the EPL in the last 3 matches (last one being Kolo’s nutmeg of Reina on 11/12). Prior to that we tied the game with Everton with a free kick (RvP). And, if you look at the liverpool game, NONE of our forwards or attacking midfielders scored. In fact, if you exclude the Hamburg game at the Emirates where RvP tied (and Eboue, a defender, won the game), the last time our forwards scored from open play was READING; that was October 22nd………..That, my friends is a LOOOONNNNNG time to go without scoring……and combine that with a leaky defense and you find yourself 16 points off the pace ( I can’t even begin to say we have a game in hand, because we’ll probably drop points against jewell’s Wigan)………
So, where is the problem???? I think it’s pretty complicated and it’s late at night but the problem is the 4-5-1 and TH being lonely up front. He needs someone up there to distract opposition’s defenders and create some space……Also we’re not getting regular goals from Hleb and Rosicky. Their predecessors, Pires and Freddie were regular goal scorers to get us out of trouble against the Fulhams and the Boltons. In fact, I think Freddie was the last Gunner to score against Bolton from open play (in the FA Cup a couple of years ago 1-0)……….this takes us back to going back to 4-4-2 and attacking the flanks which means we need someone to get STUCK IN in the middle of the park and get the ball back; someone like PV4……….
So, I think wenger’s tactics (4-5-1) to deal with our dearly departed (PV4) has worked only on occasion. The way we play, we need TWO STRIKERS and until we get or develop another goal scorer and replace PV4, we will be struggling to keep ourselves in the top 4…….
It’s late and I am exhausted and sick with how things have gone……we can’t blame refs or pitches or missed offsides calls….if we play correctly and put our chances away, these things will just be another tiny moment in the game, and not THE DECISIVE MOMENT OF THE GAME…..
Come on you Gunners, find your motivation, find your strength and defeat the Totties, Porto and the Blues…..we need you now
Please
Just finished watching the game. Ugh. Not sure what the positives are. It was nice to see Rosicky back - he had a quiet game but didn't make any big mistakes. Hopefully he'll get fully fit and contribute soon. Great free kick by van Persie.
Obviously the defensive mistakes are obvious, especially in the last few games, but our main problems this season are with finishing. Tonight was an anomaly for our losses this season in that Fulham actually out-shot and out-attacked us. The whole team's passing and communication tonight was abysmal - we gave the ball away frequently, misunderstood what another player was going to do, etc. And the finishing was still terrible - Gilberto, Henry, Walcott. The set-piece defending was abysmal - get Keown back on staff!
For all that people complain about van Persie, he played reasonably well tonight given the poor service he received. He certainly played better than Henry and made some nice passes as well (for those who criticize him as a black hole).
Not sure what should be done at this point. The team isn't gelling at the moment & confidence seems very low. There is certainly the ability in this team to score goals and win games - obviously not with the necessary consistency, but the ability is there - so what are the blocking points? Is it psychological? Is it not focusing enough on certain elements of the game in training? Is it too much youth? Is it myopia? Tactics?
Wenger obviously thought he could rest a few regulars tonight - if you can't rest players at Fulham, when can you rest them? He was wrong about that. Would it have made a difference if we'd started with Djourou instead of Senderos and Cesc instead of Song? I'm not sure…
*sigh* It's going to be a frustrating season but I'll just keep my hopes up for bright spots and 4th place.
This evening’s London Times contains an article titled “Wenger faces uncomfortable moment of truth as Fulham expose weaknesses” which is unfortunately spot on. The article clearly calls out AW:
“With the possible exception of Jens Lehmann, no one should escape blame for a shambolic performance by the visiting team, including Ars?ne Wenger, whose bizarre team selection set the tone for much of what followed.
His faith in youngsters such as Justin Hoyte and Alexandre Song is misplaced, but he appeared to be in denial, blaming an offside decision when Thierry Henry had the ball in the net in the second half for the loss.
‘We didn?t expect the defeat,’ Wenger said. ‘It was played at a high pace and we gave it everything, so I?m not disappointed with the way we played. It?s our third away defeat [in succession], I cannot deny that, but as with West Ham and Bolton we could?ve had some points.’
‘The offside was decisive and I think the coincidence of the decisions at the moment is very peculiar. As with the penalty [we did not get] at West Ham, we have to live with it. We?re playing too many games and this fixture was a farce.’
Having told his players that they were facing their moment of truth, Wenger showed no wish to speak honestly. The Frenchman was as culpable as his players, making six changes from the team beaten by Bolton, with Francesc F?bregas on the bench and Emmanuel Ebou? and Ga?l Clichy sitting out entirely, leaving three key positions filled by novices.
Hoyte looked like the next Gus Caesar at right back, Flamini appeared to be pining for a role in midfield on the left and Song should have been made to sing for his post-match supper after a horrendous display. As the watching Paul Merson put it with a wonderful mixture of metaphors, the Cameroon midfield player looked ‘like a fish up a tree’
. . . . .
It was left to Chris Coleman to provide a more accurate assessment of the evening, with the Fulham manager hailing his team?s performance as the best of his 3?-year reign.
‘I enjoyed it from start to finish and it?s the best performance since I?ve been here,’ he said. ‘We didn?t sit back in the second half and could?ve scored more goals. That?s better than our Manchester United away performance and Chelsea at home when we beat them last year.’
‘We?ve beaten United, Liverpool and Chelsea, but never got near Arsenal. When we beat United a few years ago they were going through a transitional period and the same thing is happening with Arsenal.’
With Wenger?s team 16 points behind United at the top, the Arsenal manager has much to ponder.”
I’m gobsmacked….I guess I shouldn’t be but I am.
Fulham! If there has been one team in the EPL that I always felt assured about us playing it was Fulham.
And Wenger….for Pete’s sake.
Replacing Clichy and Eboue….yeah right. Great diagnosis! The man is brilliant, I’m a believer, but whowsa sometimes you just gotta say it like it is.
It’s an argument that can never be proven but I maintain our problems start at the front this season not the back.
If the attack had shown any apptitude to finish at all this season we would be looking good, close to the leaders, and our confidence would be high.
Instead we rely on goals from free kicks….and the defence is all wobbly cause they know the attack is powderpuff and they will have to defend 0-0 all game long. And lets face it we have NEVER been a side to defend 0-0. It’s just not in our DNA.
Wenger said it….”the moment of truth”.
That was it. And we lost.
SONG OVER BAPTISTA ??? Someone pliz explain this.. Somebody’s got a mental disorder nobody can explain…..A state of obscure lunacy is what I’d call it….WHO DOES THAT I ask myself ?
If you think Arsenal’s problem is poor leadership then you are obviously watching something else. What Arsenal doing is a combined team effort as well as a manager nobody can understand….He seems to think in another dimension that is his alone…..
That being said, this team has been damaged psychologically it will take more than a pat on the back for a full recovery. I wonder what Wenger fills these guys’ heads with after such results because I am seriously struck how we can be on a downward curve week after week with no significant improvement. Wenger needs a complete rethink of the way he’s been doing things because it doesn’t seem to be working…
You think….
If finishing is our problem then how come the game was summarised as early as the first 20 minutes. And another thing is the team can’t gell with the continous inclusion of seriously disabled players in the mold of Song, Flamini and Hoyte. Song should go back to Cameroon and try his talents in another field. He is clearly no cut out for football at this level or football at all. Flamini and Hoyte should concentrate on carling cup games. Wenger should understand not every kid can become a star but that doesn’t mean he should test them in such vital circumstances…..Baptista must have been lhao in some corner somewhere…..
How are these players supposed to gell and regain confidence….Atleast if we were keeping clean sheets and failing to score, I’d be fine with that….
Why is Wenger still sitting pretty ? Whenever a team like Man City is struggling the manager’s job seems under threat….I know Wenger has done a lot for the club but who cares about all that. You think Boa morte had the old Arsenal on his mind as he continously tormented the Arsenal back four…. History is irrelevant…….
We will probably beat Spurs or Chelsea and look like our old selves then crumble at the feet of the mighty Wigan….
Wenger is playing !!!!
Wow, was this really a shock. When I saw the team news I was surprised to say the least.
This game shows the importance of Fabregas in the current team. I was thinking that Rosicky was important but both now have become pivotal and cannot be dropped. Who can replace either of these guys?
I cant wait for Diaby to come back, but our season may be over by then.
If Gallasm Toure and Senderos are out for Spurs who will play in defence?
Clichy, Djourou, Hoyte and Eboue ?
Dont tell me Wenger will think about putting Gilberto or Song at CB?
Could Connolly be brought back from Bourenmouth?
This is a poor defence for our reserves let alone the first team against Spurs in the first game at the Emirates.
Fingers crossed for Gallas to make a recovery.
Goals? where will they come from? Henry should be playing wide left to cut in more, with Baptista up front against Spurs or Van Persie, with Walcott on the right.
Ferguson is a more successful manager than Wenger but even still he hasn’t been offered a contract for life at the club. Liverpool let Houlier go when things weren’t working out and won the Champions league with Benitez. Why then do we stick to a man so stubborn, he is blinded by his philosophy and the backing by the likes of Dein doesn’t help the situation…
I hate to admit it but at the end of the season you might have to think otherwise…
We’ve in the early stages of the biggest financial project in club football (repaying The Emirates), we’re in the 2nd year of a major team rebuild, and many of the squad are at AFC because of Wenger’s aura.
If you were on the AFC board would you sack Wenger?
You mentioned Fergie. He has lived dangerously for 3 years. But even the new American owners were too scared to dump him. Replacing a proven manager is a frightening proposition. Now look at Fergie….against the odds he has revitalised MU. I thought he was gone.
Wenger’s stubborness can be infuriating, but it is also the seeds of his success. And who else produces teams that play with such panache?
I didn’t see the game. But I am devastated by the result. I don’t want to go into any discussion on tactics, players, etc. because we can discuss it forever. All I want is for AW and the players to get things right. Just get back to the basics and do the right things right. It’s sometimes tougher than it looks. In that process, if players and/or tactics are found to be wanting, then it’s time to discard them. I am more than willing to give AW and the team time to sort it out. In fact, at this crucial time, the team needs our support more than ever.
Why is Toure suspended when he didn’t get booked last night?
I don’t understand Wenger’s selection, in my view when the team is struggling you go with the strongest line up possible. It’s been shown to be a mistake, but we have to move on to the next game now.
There seems to be some confusion about whether he was booked or not, or whether he already has a suspension lined up.
Wenger’s excuses are getting more and more ridiculous by the week - how can he blame fixture congestion, every one has to play the same amount of games eventually, so Arsenal will benefit when other teams have fixture congestion. Besides, isn’t the whole point of having a big squad to combat fixture congestion?
Anyway, one would like to think that these games will be a good indicator for Wenger of the future - like, who’s good enough and who isn’t. Who needs to be sold and who doesn’t.
My only personal worry is that he is demonstrating signs of unclear thinking in regards to team selection - he obviously hasn’t got a clue who to play and when at the moment, never mind getting a cohesive team to click. It’s all one big mess, and the team is probably the biggest joke since we played Man U and lost 6-1 with crap like Grimandi, Stepanovs and Luznhy in the squad.
He turned it around then and can do it again now, it will be a bumpy ride and maybe a humiliating one. I don’t know if I can bear to watch us being torn apart by Tottenham on Saturday. If Spurs weren’t such spineless losers I would predict a 4-0 defeat, but anything could happen.
It’s never that bad. I’m glad we’ve got 3 massive games in a row: at least then we’ll have a more definitive answer.
I’m in agreement with the unclear thinking on team selection. Had Arsene already decided we will probably get 4th so he may as well experiment a bit? I thought Walcott starting at the Reebok was a little strange, but I was msystified when I saw the teamsheet last night. I actually went back and checked twice before kick off to see if they had corrected the line-up.
Especially as Eboue & Clichy were not even on the bench. Is Wenger smarter than we think? Probably. He must be testing something, trying something, looking, learning, and all the time trying to keep the media savagery at bay from the players.
I simply cannot believe he could go into a game against Fulham that he acclaimed was crucial with the likes of Hoyte, Flamini, Song etc. and expect to get a result. Something doesn’t add up - Wenger is too brainy to make such abherrations.
Well done Fulham, they played brilliant footie and couldhave won this game by a larger margin. Chris Coleman deserves this after all the pastings we have handed out to them. I also agree that Djourou should have come into the side before Senderos. Pre-Gallas he had been playing well. Phil looks lost out there. I am still waiting for a Song breakthrough. I understand that he is young but he simply does not contribute. I felt Justin Hoyte did well getting forward. Poor performance in general. No excuses. The Tottenham match will show the side’s character. I felt we played two poor matches against them last season. I am hoping for the best.
Not a valid excuse. I never hear about the teams in the Championship, League 1 & 2 complain about fixture congestion, and they often play 2-3 times a week. These are professional footballers and this is the Arsenal - a big club with enough budget to have a big roster with good depth so players can get rotated if fixture congestion does come up.
I’d have to question the manager’s choice of players outside of the starting XI - Song? Flamini at LB AGAIN? Resting Baptista when he’s really only played a couple games this season? Wenger underestimated Fulham and paid the price, and yet still defiant and not admit he made a tatical mistake.
By all accounts Eboue and Clichy were sub par vs Bolton, was Arsene dropping them? Or did he check his prozone stats and decide that these two run the furthest and can be decisive in games so should be completely rested to allow their fitness to catch them up? Wenger must have believed the team he put out was good enough for the win, must have, maybe he saw Fulham had a couple of defenders out injured and thought the firepower of RVP and Henry should be enough. Maybe he’s trying to embarass a performance out of Henry and Gilberto. Surely there must be some reason that Song was playing, I can only think it was to encourage Gilberto to be more responsible in possession. Maybe at home, but not away in a derby.
I think Arsenal should rotate and play the kids BUT not all at once. I.e. Song in the mid, Flamini in the LB, Houyte on the RB and Sendy in the CB. Too much here.
I think AW should have kept Eboue and Clichy — or rotated one with Hoyte. Played Flamini in the MID. Song maybe should play when every starter is there.
I dont give the title hopes yet … but I can be realistic … Not Math wise but Arsenal is not good enough. The way Arsenal go, we will win 3 games then lose 2 … if we keep winning and tie a game every 8 games or so .. then we can win the title.
Lets hope for an easy third Place rather than 4th. For now, I hope Arsenal can restore the winning line and secure the 3rd place, so we dont have to worry about and simply look more into the CL and the FA CUP.
Well, like I said, this game and Bolton were a bit of an anomaly this season compared to our other games in that we conceded more than one goal. So, yes, the defense is *also* becoming a problem. But our only goal yesterday came from a stunning free kick - we need to start scoring from open play with more consistency.
The inclusion of squad players yesterday was, I believe, to rest some of the key players ahead of Spurs, Porto & Chelsea. I expect Wenger's thoughts were, if you can't rest them against Fulham, who can you rest them against? I would definitely like to be rid of Song - he seems absolutely useless. Flamini can do fine for us for a squad player and was by no means our worst player on the field yesterday. I'm undecided on Hoyte - he had both good and bad moments yesterday, and it remains to be seen whether he'll improve sufficiently.
The gelling is the key thing and I'm not sure how Wenger will achieve that. But I suppose that's why he gets the big salary…
The morning after. The shock has not worn off yet. Wenger is saying this and saying that. It’s all bulls**t. Smoke and mirrors. Do not ascribe a complex rationale to Wenger’s team selection. Do not think it was part of complex plan of player management. Wenger is not Machiavelli. Wenger violated the first tenet of coaching in the EPL-there are no easy games in the EPL. He thought Fulham would be an easy game (historically) and his team selection reflected that. He got it wrong.
If we even fall into the relegation zone, Wenger is still the captain to right the ship. I totally support his youth movement. It takes managerial courage to play youth. There is not a manager in the EPL with that type of courage. Why does everyone clamor for Arsenal loanees. We have a clue. Everyone else has been riding our coat tails. It will be a painful, bumpy road and we are at the beginning, not the middle or the end. Who knows, Song may be the next Boa Morte for a soon to be promoted team.
Please read Biggun’s post. We do not have a lock down defense (I am trying not to be facetious). No offense=no wins. It is why I’ve been flogging the 4-5-1, Henry’s play in general, RVP playing on the (L), lack of pace, lack of direct play, lack of targets in the box, lack of quality crosses, inconsistent width in attack, lack of finishing and lack of forwards willing to do what Tomas Radzinski did in order to score. Any Arsenal player who offers up a quote before the Sp*rs game should be transferred in the January transfer window. I don’t want to read one F*****G word out these players. They don’t have that right anymore.
November 29th, 2006 at 4:49 pm
I wonder what excuse Wenger will have this time… can’t blame the new stadium (cuz we’re playing away)… can’t blame the opposition putting 11-men behind the ball (they outshot us 17-8 playing OUR attacking game)… can’t blame injuries because we have TH, RVP, and Rosicky back…
I’m running out of ideas why we’re struggling…
November 29th, 2006 at 4:53 pm
buerrrkkkkkkk
November 29th, 2006 at 4:53 pm
We’ve either got to take the captaincy from Henry or give him a striker partner. If we don’t do something, our results will continue to go as they’ve been since Paddy left. We’ve got no cutting edge and teams know that. They know if they can score at least one goal, their likely to get something from the game. Why, because Arsenal can play pretty football but they can’t score for shite.
Arsenal are all bark and no bite. This is the first time in the Wenger era that he’s had a toothless team and he needs to recognize that and do something about it. He’s got to sharpen that dull-ass cutting edge that he’s created before he loses the belief in the team. The writing was on the wall last year when we were lucky as crap to even make the CL. Now more teams are wise to us and results are tougher to come by. Now’s the time for him to make his money.
November 29th, 2006 at 4:55 pm
Not seen the game but these Eurosport stats paint a very familiar picture…
Fulham Stats box Arsenal
43 Possession 57
2 Goals 1
11 Shots 8
4 Shots on target 4
54 Headers 39
3 Saves 2
2 Goalkeeper off his line 2
5 Corners 6
18 Fouls committed 15
1 Offsides 3
4 Yellow cards 6
0 Red cards 1
89 Balls lost 93
51 Successful tackles 39
9 Interceptions 2
0 Long balls 0
266 Short passes 409
9 Assists 6
4 Successful crosses 1
November 29th, 2006 at 4:59 pm
I love Henry - he’s my favourite player but he’s been missing some excellent changes (including today). As they say, “Form is Temporary but Class is Permanent” but Henry’s form is troubling to say the least.
Just like last year, Fourth place is all I want … everything else is a bonus.
I don’t want to see Wenger buy some potential talent in January, I would like some grit that has Premiership experience. When you start someone like Song - it’s a joke … he has no business in the first team. Why not play Flamini in the middle if you are resting Cesc and rotate Clichy later? This typical November downturn is creeping into December.
November 29th, 2006 at 5:02 pm
I meant “chances”
November 29th, 2006 at 5:19 pm
First goal by Fulham shud never have happen. Lehmann made a mess of the glancing header by McBride by diverting the header away from Flamini who could have cleared the header. Lehmann’s form is poor for this game and the last one - Wenger shud sit him and start Almunia. The last time he did it, it resurrected Lehmann’s form and Arsenal’s as well.
November 29th, 2006 at 5:21 pm
Oh dear. Haven’t seen this. Don’t know if I want to. Apparently Van Persie’s free-kick was brilliant. I doubt there is anything else positive about this.
Not surprised Clichy and Eboue were dropped. Hoyte is not as good going forward but is slightly more solid (doesn’t give away quite as many chances) than Eboue while Clichy’s head appeared to drop at the weekend. I am mystified at Song playing. Fabregas needed a rest, but play Baptista or Ljungberg instead with Rosicky if necessary in the centre rather than playing Song. I wonder is something wrong inside the club.
November 29th, 2006 at 5:28 pm
It’s the same story with Arsenal in the last few seasons. We drop points in games we don’t deserve to, our confidence goes to pot, and then we actually lose games we deserve to lose. It’s the same old fuckin story before we have a turning point and then we pick up. I’m even struggling to forsee a possible turning point at this juncture. That’s how bad it seems now.
Has anyone noticed how our defence has turned into an even more shambolic mess since Senderos came back? As I stated all summer, that guy is shite and is no where near good enough for Arsenal. How he got ahead of Djourou i’ll never know. At least Djourou has all the basic attributes already and only needs to improve concentration. Senderos is screwed because he is as mobile as a cruise liner and daft as a brush.
Again, Wenger has completely misjudged the stength of his squad. We fans knews that, the feckin eskimos knew it, but not Wenger. The more someone shows how crap they are, the more Wenger twists reality to convince himself they are good.
If he manages to steady the ship from here I’ll give him great credit. But it won’t happen before we lose to the spuds and Chelsea. The latter could be a humiliation with our aerial negiligence. Chelsea could easily win that 5-0.
November 29th, 2006 at 5:44 pm
i think the main thing is that wenger is just not such a great tactician. neither does he choose his teams well.
am not critising him and all - his system is great and when on form his teams play wonderful football but he just doesnt get in-game tactics, lineups and formations right!
why on EARTH were we still playing 4-5-1 against FULHAM OF ALL TEAMS who play 4-4-2 ??? for almost a decade he absolutely REFUSED to try anything else apart from 4-4-2 even in situations where another formation might have helped. but now that he has started it he just wont budge again. is he thaaaaat slow to change???
now for the team selections! he made SEVEN changes to the lineup. most of them absurd: flamini, hoyte and song have absolutely no business here. why rest BAPTISTA and clichy - dont they need GAMES after such a long time out. both of these players havent played internationals in a while so they cant be “tired”.
hoyte wont play for watford. and i would rather we played 16 yr old merida than song - at least there will be some creativity. song is just a waste. why play TWO defensive mids in a 4-5-1 against fulham of all people.
lets put back 2 upfront. henry is USELESS alone upfront and RvP in midfield is a waste.
November 29th, 2006 at 5:53 pm
actually we?re in luck as senderos is suspended. since he came in we have been conceeding from corners and crosses HIS supposed strong points!
November 29th, 2006 at 5:58 pm
its sadly ironic that with senderos we are conceeding corners and crosses MORE than usual. and thats supposed to be his strength since he?s as slow as an oil tanker.
at least djorou will be back in there.
November 29th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
Super, Super Bob! Super, Super Bob! Super, Super Bob! Super Bobby Pires!!
No reason for this, they just mentioned him a lot today on Arsenal tv and I miss him.
November 29th, 2006 at 6:15 pm
Pires is the last player who would get us out of this, he hides when the going gets tough - that’s why he was sold.
Things are going to get a lot worse. I think the confidence has gone at the back and we’re in real trouble now. I think we will lose to Tottenham, because we haven’t the leaders or the character to pull us out of the mire just yet, funnily enough I think we will get enough at Porto - because it’s Europe, but then I think Chelsea will roll us over.
It’s all about 4th place and the team pulling together and growing up fast. Need the old guard in there and to stay fit, which means Lauren and Gallas surving the season unscathed when they return. Gilberto was atrocious tonight by allk accounts, Song even worse.
I also think Djorou should have gone straight back in ahead of Senderos, because Senderos has mad mistakes in the past and Djourou hasn’t. It’s going to be a bit painful to watch, but we have to stick at it - no point slaughtering Wenger week in week out. After 10 years he IS going to have a real stinker of a season - and he deserves our backing every inch for what he’s done for this club.
I’m not saying that support should be indefinite, but he’s lost the plot a bit and everyone needs to show him some gratitude when he needs it most. Not just run him down and desert him.
November 29th, 2006 at 6:24 pm
By the way, 6 bookings and a red tonight. So no Gallas, Toure or Senderos against Spurs Saturday - we could lose by 3 or 4.
November 29th, 2006 at 6:32 pm
We did play 4-4-2. Just watched the game. Van persie played right sided-striker with Rosicky on the left. Still made no difference.
November 29th, 2006 at 6:43 pm
Agreed on your points regarding AW. He deserves every chance to sort this out. In my humble opinion, we need some more steel in the side. I know Wenger is trying to create a beautiful team that plays flowing football. But most of his previous sides combined attractive, positive football with a large amount of toughness. Toure and Gallas are the only two tough tacklers on this squad. Perhaps Diaby will add something when he returns. But his future has to be very much in doubt after the horrific injury. I can’t think of too many players they can pursue that fit the description. I guess, if there is anyone that can find them, it will be Arsene. Hopefully, the budget isn’t too constrained due to the stadium debt.
One more thought…..isn’t it scary how much Senderos moves around and plays like Cygan. If we have to sell in order to buy, I think Senderos should go. I know he is young. But I don’t think he will ever have the pace to make it at Arsenal.
November 29th, 2006 at 6:46 pm
No doubt Wenger has lost the plot momentarily, although there have been signs he’s been slowly losing it for a while. His managerial philosophy is getting a bit blurred. On a wider context it’s highly unlikely he would have ever won a title without players inherited from george graham. Anyway, that’s another story.
But he’s just making plain wrong managerial decisions. Senderos ahead of Djourou. Wrong. Flamini. Song. Wrong.
These are players who are actually just average. Simple as that. All this crap about Arsenal having the talent and not having enough fight is rubbish. We have talent of course, but not nearly enough of it.
Our midfield was anaemic tonight and warmed up too late again. Gilberto’s passing was atrocious but then it often is. His passing is so consistently crap that no one mentions it anymore. Just part of the Gilberto package. Human error mistakes like his and others just keep killing us.
November 29th, 2006 at 7:08 pm
Fixture congestion.
November 29th, 2006 at 7:19 pm
Its our deffense. We thought that we got all with Gallas. When he is out, we are fu*ked. Sendy is just not the same one we had last year. Why Rest Clichy and play Flamini there … Why play a non LB in the LB position and we LB available. Yes Clichy played like shite.
Song was mistake to play … Play Beast or do something different. Play 4-4-2. 2 quick stupid goals. Arsenal’s Backline is a joke …
November 29th, 2006 at 7:21 pm
Senderos, WHY. Honestly what are you thinking at a lost for words.
When is Wenger going to realize that if you play Flamini anywhere on the pitch he will fail, He has Bapista Walcott,and Denilson, why even keep Flamini after he got Bapista he should have put Flamini on loan.
Song why is he out there instead of Bapista after Wenger says “the best is yet to come from him” THEN PLAY HIM, the man is a beast and everyone now knows after the Bolton game to beat us all you have to do is be physcial and you put Song out. That one is on you A-Dub
Note to Lehman, when the ball goes in the net, whether its your fault or not, stop blaming others it doesn’t look good. And it makes you look like a fool and makes me think that we should do everything we can to get Buffon in the summer transfer window if Juve (which now doesn’t look like its going to happen) doesn’t move up to Seria A.
Who else was screaming at their TV “SHOOT THE F**king Ball”
How’s this for irony last week it was the curse of the ex (anekla) and this week its the curse of our american BMB that does us in.
From here ovb Champions league, I hear Gallas will be match fit. we need to win or or tie, thank god its not at home , by the way can we still move back to Highbury, just a thought
November 29th, 2006 at 7:24 pm
Henry out as Skipper give it to Toure RIGHT NOW
Anybody with me on this one
November 29th, 2006 at 7:28 pm
The captaincy issue is the least of our problems.
November 29th, 2006 at 7:32 pm
No. Henry will only get pissed off and Toure was abysmal tonight, so why heap more pressure on him? Just leave it. I would advocate giving it to Gilberto, but he only turns up every other game.
The least of Arsenal’s problems is who is wearing an black armband. Leadership should come from player performances, and you need more than 1 - at the moment we have none.
November 29th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
We aren’t going to lose 5-0 to Chelsea.
Get serious.
November 29th, 2006 at 7:47 pm
The going doesn’t get “tough” at Fulham.
This is the type of game Pires SCORED in.
He never hid from anything. Just scored big goals and meshed well with Henry.
November 29th, 2006 at 7:49 pm
How much do you want to wager we don’t lose by 3 or 4 against Tottenham.
For someone who says it so often, YOU are talking crap.
It will be close, and we might even lose, but I’d wager LARGE quantities of money we don’t lose be 3 or 4.
November 29th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
sure, we’re all with you…
piss Henry off … when we need him to step up most.
Get real. There isn’t anyone on the team who really deserves it right now.
November 29th, 2006 at 8:04 pm
Understandable, but if you look at it this way Gilberto has off games and he’s not if I can say the warrior that Toure is out there who is solid. Tonight maybe not and that anelka goal was his fault for not playing him closer. About Henry crying, look its evident that he is not playing the same as usual. He can say that he i misses highbury. meaningless, He know’s he is not playing well the team is the furtherest back ever, where is the King to pull us out of this. It pains me to say this but I for the first time in a while scare of our game against the f*cking hotspurs
November 29th, 2006 at 8:16 pm
I guess I’ll get my two cents in (or is it pence) on this game.
“Houston (Arsenal), we have a problem.” Redux.
This was the worse game I’ve seen Arsenal play ever. We became a long ball team. That is the ultimate insult for an Arsenal team. We were exposed as clueless mid-table fodder. Everything from team selection to the lack of execution in the final third was horrendous. Arsenal fans will earn their “red badge of courage” this year.
I predicted before this game that Fulham would win 2-1. I predicted a set piece goal from Brian McBride. I take no pleasure in having got those predictions right. Arsenal letting in an early first goal from a set play is like death and taxes.
I want very much to launch a expletive filled attack on many of the same players I’ve attacked before. I will not be repeating myself in this post. The usual suspects were all front and centerstage. Those of you who have tried to defend your favorites simply will not be able to after this display. I will say that Hoyte’s defense in the second half saved two goals. That’s the best I can do. There was a new face today: Song. I won’t go there. It’s just too easy. Diaby’s injury now looms even larger. We are waiting for Baptista. Do not look for help in the January window. I do not want help in the January window. I want the players we have to get their collective ‘quality’ asses in gear.
I am worried about our future because we are now worse than we were last year at this time. This is a pivotal time for Arsenal. There is an 800lb guerilla in the room and it is our stadium debt. Our continue lack of success on the field will have repercussions far beyond our standing at season’s end.
November 29th, 2006 at 8:17 pm
I think Pissing off Henry is good thing since we’re not really getting the Henry of old out of him (Yes, the Newcastle goal was great) but what about West Ham and Fulham. Teams like that you look to the skipper to pull out a win. I sorry if he gets pissed but you know what this is a first and fore most a business and sport your not playing well, then sorry you don’t deserve it, I know what he’s done I LOVE HIM next to God, but if he can’t get over not being skipper and go out and do his job.
November 29th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
You must be an optimist.
November 29th, 2006 at 8:20 pm
good point about the transfer window. I did want Ribery to come here so bad or Torres, but now I think they should deal with this and there is no way we contend for the league
November 29th, 2006 at 8:22 pm
You are absolutely right on all your points.
November 29th, 2006 at 10:52 pm
It might be better to try to bring in some quality or toughness during January. A lot of players say that they are attracted to teams because of the prospect of playing European football. If things continue as they are; this summer we may face the prospect of no European football next fall. Almost a catch 22. No matter what AW says now, he may have to bring in a couple of players. The writing is on the wall.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:18 pm
You also thought we would demolish West Ham and Fulham…..May be you should get serious
November 29th, 2006 at 11:52 pm
What a disaster we’re dealing with….I am nauseated thinkin about it….
I am not going to rehash our defensive problems; we know we have them (Senderos being slow, Hoyte being bad, Eboue mis-positioning, etc. etc)…..but here is something to chew on:
We haven’t score from open play in the EPL in the last 3 matches (last one being Kolo’s nutmeg of Reina on 11/12). Prior to that we tied the game with Everton with a free kick (RvP). And, if you look at the liverpool game, NONE of our forwards or attacking midfielders scored. In fact, if you exclude the Hamburg game at the Emirates where RvP tied (and Eboue, a defender, won the game), the last time our forwards scored from open play was READING; that was October 22nd………..That, my friends is a LOOOONNNNNG time to go without scoring……and combine that with a leaky defense and you find yourself 16 points off the pace ( I can’t even begin to say we have a game in hand, because we’ll probably drop points against jewell’s Wigan)………
So, where is the problem???? I think it’s pretty complicated and it’s late at night but the problem is the 4-5-1 and TH being lonely up front. He needs someone up there to distract opposition’s defenders and create some space……Also we’re not getting regular goals from Hleb and Rosicky. Their predecessors, Pires and Freddie were regular goal scorers to get us out of trouble against the Fulhams and the Boltons. In fact, I think Freddie was the last Gunner to score against Bolton from open play (in the FA Cup a couple of years ago 1-0)……….this takes us back to going back to 4-4-2 and attacking the flanks which means we need someone to get STUCK IN in the middle of the park and get the ball back; someone like PV4……….
So, I think wenger’s tactics (4-5-1) to deal with our dearly departed (PV4) has worked only on occasion. The way we play, we need TWO STRIKERS and until we get or develop another goal scorer and replace PV4, we will be struggling to keep ourselves in the top 4…….
It’s late and I am exhausted and sick with how things have gone……we can’t blame refs or pitches or missed offsides calls….if we play correctly and put our chances away, these things will just be another tiny moment in the game, and not THE DECISIVE MOMENT OF THE GAME…..
Come on you Gunners, find your motivation, find your strength and defeat the Totties, Porto and the Blues…..we need you now
Please
November 30th, 2006 at 12:03 am
Just finished watching the game. Ugh. Not sure what the positives are. It was nice to see Rosicky back - he had a quiet game but didn't make any big mistakes. Hopefully he'll get fully fit and contribute soon. Great free kick by van Persie.
Obviously the defensive mistakes are obvious, especially in the last few games, but our main problems this season are with finishing. Tonight was an anomaly for our losses this season in that Fulham actually out-shot and out-attacked us. The whole team's passing and communication tonight was abysmal - we gave the ball away frequently, misunderstood what another player was going to do, etc. And the finishing was still terrible - Gilberto, Henry, Walcott. The set-piece defending was abysmal - get Keown back on staff!
For all that people complain about van Persie, he played reasonably well tonight given the poor service he received. He certainly played better than Henry and made some nice passes as well (for those who criticize him as a black hole).
Not sure what should be done at this point. The team isn't gelling at the moment & confidence seems very low. There is certainly the ability in this team to score goals and win games - obviously not with the necessary consistency, but the ability is there - so what are the blocking points? Is it psychological? Is it not focusing enough on certain elements of the game in training? Is it too much youth? Is it myopia? Tactics?
Wenger obviously thought he could rest a few regulars tonight - if you can't rest players at Fulham, when can you rest them? He was wrong about that. Would it have made a difference if we'd started with Djourou instead of Senderos and Cesc instead of Song? I'm not sure…
*sigh* It's going to be a frustrating season but I'll just keep my hopes up for bright spots and 4th place.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:09 am
I hope you’re right but we have no Toure and no Gallas on Saturday. It’s going to be tough.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:17 am
This evening’s London Times contains an article titled “Wenger faces uncomfortable moment of truth as Fulham expose weaknesses” which is unfortunately spot on. The article clearly calls out AW:
“With the possible exception of Jens Lehmann, no one should escape blame for a shambolic performance by the visiting team, including Ars?ne Wenger, whose bizarre team selection set the tone for much of what followed.
His faith in youngsters such as Justin Hoyte and Alexandre Song is misplaced, but he appeared to be in denial, blaming an offside decision when Thierry Henry had the ball in the net in the second half for the loss.
‘We didn?t expect the defeat,’ Wenger said. ‘It was played at a high pace and we gave it everything, so I?m not disappointed with the way we played. It?s our third away defeat [in succession], I cannot deny that, but as with West Ham and Bolton we could?ve had some points.’
‘The offside was decisive and I think the coincidence of the decisions at the moment is very peculiar. As with the penalty [we did not get] at West Ham, we have to live with it. We?re playing too many games and this fixture was a farce.’
Having told his players that they were facing their moment of truth, Wenger showed no wish to speak honestly. The Frenchman was as culpable as his players, making six changes from the team beaten by Bolton, with Francesc F?bregas on the bench and Emmanuel Ebou? and Ga?l Clichy sitting out entirely, leaving three key positions filled by novices.
Hoyte looked like the next Gus Caesar at right back, Flamini appeared to be pining for a role in midfield on the left and Song should have been made to sing for his post-match supper after a horrendous display. As the watching Paul Merson put it with a wonderful mixture of metaphors, the Cameroon midfield player looked ‘like a fish up a tree’
. . . . .
It was left to Chris Coleman to provide a more accurate assessment of the evening, with the Fulham manager hailing his team?s performance as the best of his 3?-year reign.
‘I enjoyed it from start to finish and it?s the best performance since I?ve been here,’ he said. ‘We didn?t sit back in the second half and could?ve scored more goals. That?s better than our Manchester United away performance and Chelsea at home when we beat them last year.’
‘We?ve beaten United, Liverpool and Chelsea, but never got near Arsenal. When we beat United a few years ago they were going through a transitional period and the same thing is happening with Arsenal.’
With Wenger?s team 16 points behind United at the top, the Arsenal manager has much to ponder.”
Agreed!
November 30th, 2006 at 1:41 am
I’m gobsmacked….I guess I shouldn’t be but I am.
Fulham! If there has been one team in the EPL that I always felt assured about us playing it was Fulham.
And Wenger….for Pete’s sake.
Replacing Clichy and Eboue….yeah right. Great diagnosis! The man is brilliant, I’m a believer, but whowsa sometimes you just gotta say it like it is.
It’s an argument that can never be proven but I maintain our problems start at the front this season not the back.
If the attack had shown any apptitude to finish at all this season we would be looking good, close to the leaders, and our confidence would be high.
Instead we rely on goals from free kicks….and the defence is all wobbly cause they know the attack is powderpuff and they will have to defend 0-0 all game long. And lets face it we have NEVER been a side to defend 0-0. It’s just not in our DNA.
Wenger said it….”the moment of truth”.
That was it. And we lost.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:47 am
SONG OVER BAPTISTA ??? Someone pliz explain this.. Somebody’s got a mental disorder nobody can explain…..A state of obscure lunacy is what I’d call it….WHO DOES THAT I ask myself ?
November 30th, 2006 at 2:54 am
If you think Arsenal’s problem is poor leadership then you are obviously watching something else. What Arsenal doing is a combined team effort as well as a manager nobody can understand….He seems to think in another dimension that is his alone…..
That being said, this team has been damaged psychologically it will take more than a pat on the back for a full recovery. I wonder what Wenger fills these guys’ heads with after such results because I am seriously struck how we can be on a downward curve week after week with no significant improvement. Wenger needs a complete rethink of the way he’s been doing things because it doesn’t seem to be working…
November 30th, 2006 at 3:03 am
You think….
If finishing is our problem then how come the game was summarised as early as the first 20 minutes. And another thing is the team can’t gell with the continous inclusion of seriously disabled players in the mold of Song, Flamini and Hoyte. Song should go back to Cameroon and try his talents in another field. He is clearly no cut out for football at this level or football at all. Flamini and Hoyte should concentrate on carling cup games. Wenger should understand not every kid can become a star but that doesn’t mean he should test them in such vital circumstances…..Baptista must have been lhao in some corner somewhere…..
How are these players supposed to gell and regain confidence….Atleast if we were keeping clean sheets and failing to score, I’d be fine with that….
November 30th, 2006 at 3:15 am
Why is Wenger still sitting pretty ? Whenever a team like Man City is struggling the manager’s job seems under threat….I know Wenger has done a lot for the club but who cares about all that. You think Boa morte had the old Arsenal on his mind as he continously tormented the Arsenal back four…. History is irrelevant…….
We will probably beat Spurs or Chelsea and look like our old selves then crumble at the feet of the mighty Wigan….
Wenger is playing !!!!
November 30th, 2006 at 3:36 am
“Why is Wenger still sitting pretty ?”
Lotsa reasons….and they’re all relevant.
Some day we’ll be faced with Wenger leaving but I don’t hasten the time.
But he is human, and on days like today it’s easy to acknowledge that.
November 30th, 2006 at 3:56 am
Wow, was this really a shock. When I saw the team news I was surprised to say the least.
This game shows the importance of Fabregas in the current team. I was thinking that Rosicky was important but both now have become pivotal and cannot be dropped. Who can replace either of these guys?
I cant wait for Diaby to come back, but our season may be over by then.
If Gallasm Toure and Senderos are out for Spurs who will play in defence?
Clichy, Djourou, Hoyte and Eboue ?
Dont tell me Wenger will think about putting Gilberto or Song at CB?
Could Connolly be brought back from Bourenmouth?
This is a poor defence for our reserves let alone the first team against Spurs in the first game at the Emirates.
Fingers crossed for Gallas to make a recovery.
Goals? where will they come from? Henry should be playing wide left to cut in more, with Baptista up front against Spurs or Van Persie, with Walcott on the right.
Clichy v Lennon will be important.
November 30th, 2006 at 4:29 am
Ferguson is a more successful manager than Wenger but even still he hasn’t been offered a contract for life at the club. Liverpool let Houlier go when things weren’t working out and won the Champions league with Benitez. Why then do we stick to a man so stubborn, he is blinded by his philosophy and the backing by the likes of Dein doesn’t help the situation…
I hate to admit it but at the end of the season you might have to think otherwise…
November 30th, 2006 at 4:43 am
actually, toure and senderos WILL still play at spurs … they are suspended for the CHELSEA GAME!!! oh dear!!!
we can easily lose both games….by embarrasing margins.
funnily enough that most useless of players, adebayor might have been usefull for us against fulham …might being the operative word.
November 30th, 2006 at 4:48 am
We’ve in the early stages of the biggest financial project in club football (repaying The Emirates), we’re in the 2nd year of a major team rebuild, and many of the squad are at AFC because of Wenger’s aura.
If you were on the AFC board would you sack Wenger?
You mentioned Fergie. He has lived dangerously for 3 years. But even the new American owners were too scared to dump him. Replacing a proven manager is a frightening proposition. Now look at Fergie….against the odds he has revitalised MU. I thought he was gone.
Wenger’s stubborness can be infuriating, but it is also the seeds of his success. And who else produces teams that play with such panache?
November 30th, 2006 at 4:49 am
I didn’t see the game. But I am devastated by the result. I don’t want to go into any discussion on tactics, players, etc. because we can discuss it forever. All I want is for AW and the players to get things right. Just get back to the basics and do the right things right. It’s sometimes tougher than it looks. In that process, if players and/or tactics are found to be wanting, then it’s time to discard them. I am more than willing to give AW and the team time to sort it out. In fact, at this crucial time, the team needs our support more than ever.
November 30th, 2006 at 5:08 am
Why is Toure suspended when he didn’t get booked last night?
I don’t understand Wenger’s selection, in my view when the team is struggling you go with the strongest line up possible. It’s been shown to be a mistake, but we have to move on to the next game now.
November 30th, 2006 at 8:44 am
There seems to be some confusion about whether he was booked or not, or whether he already has a suspension lined up.
Wenger’s excuses are getting more and more ridiculous by the week - how can he blame fixture congestion, every one has to play the same amount of games eventually, so Arsenal will benefit when other teams have fixture congestion. Besides, isn’t the whole point of having a big squad to combat fixture congestion?
Anyway, one would like to think that these games will be a good indicator for Wenger of the future - like, who’s good enough and who isn’t. Who needs to be sold and who doesn’t.
My only personal worry is that he is demonstrating signs of unclear thinking in regards to team selection - he obviously hasn’t got a clue who to play and when at the moment, never mind getting a cohesive team to click. It’s all one big mess, and the team is probably the biggest joke since we played Man U and lost 6-1 with crap like Grimandi, Stepanovs and Luznhy in the squad.
He turned it around then and can do it again now, it will be a bumpy ride and maybe a humiliating one. I don’t know if I can bear to watch us being torn apart by Tottenham on Saturday. If Spurs weren’t such spineless losers I would predict a 4-0 defeat, but anything could happen.
November 30th, 2006 at 9:10 am
It’s never that bad. I’m glad we’ve got 3 massive games in a row: at least then we’ll have a more definitive answer.
I’m in agreement with the unclear thinking on team selection. Had Arsene already decided we will probably get 4th so he may as well experiment a bit? I thought Walcott starting at the Reebok was a little strange, but I was msystified when I saw the teamsheet last night. I actually went back and checked twice before kick off to see if they had corrected the line-up.
November 30th, 2006 at 9:23 am
Especially as Eboue & Clichy were not even on the bench. Is Wenger smarter than we think? Probably. He must be testing something, trying something, looking, learning, and all the time trying to keep the media savagery at bay from the players.
I simply cannot believe he could go into a game against Fulham that he acclaimed was crucial with the likes of Hoyte, Flamini, Song etc. and expect to get a result. Something doesn’t add up - Wenger is too brainy to make such abherrations.
November 30th, 2006 at 9:28 am
Well done Fulham, they played brilliant footie and couldhave won this game by a larger margin. Chris Coleman deserves this after all the pastings we have handed out to them. I also agree that Djourou should have come into the side before Senderos. Pre-Gallas he had been playing well. Phil looks lost out there. I am still waiting for a Song breakthrough. I understand that he is young but he simply does not contribute. I felt Justin Hoyte did well getting forward. Poor performance in general. No excuses. The Tottenham match will show the side’s character. I felt we played two poor matches against them last season. I am hoping for the best.
November 30th, 2006 at 9:29 am
Not a valid excuse. I never hear about the teams in the Championship, League 1 & 2 complain about fixture congestion, and they often play 2-3 times a week. These are professional footballers and this is the Arsenal - a big club with enough budget to have a big roster with good depth so players can get rotated if fixture congestion does come up.
I’d have to question the manager’s choice of players outside of the starting XI - Song? Flamini at LB AGAIN? Resting Baptista when he’s really only played a couple games this season? Wenger underestimated Fulham and paid the price, and yet still defiant and not admit he made a tatical mistake.
November 30th, 2006 at 9:59 am
By all accounts Eboue and Clichy were sub par vs Bolton, was Arsene dropping them? Or did he check his prozone stats and decide that these two run the furthest and can be decisive in games so should be completely rested to allow their fitness to catch them up? Wenger must have believed the team he put out was good enough for the win, must have, maybe he saw Fulham had a couple of defenders out injured and thought the firepower of RVP and Henry should be enough. Maybe he’s trying to embarass a performance out of Henry and Gilberto. Surely there must be some reason that Song was playing, I can only think it was to encourage Gilberto to be more responsible in possession. Maybe at home, but not away in a derby.
Any which way, le Boss isn’t going to tell us.
November 30th, 2006 at 10:17 am
I think Arsenal should rotate and play the kids BUT not all at once. I.e. Song in the mid, Flamini in the LB, Houyte on the RB and Sendy in the CB. Too much here.
I think AW should have kept Eboue and Clichy — or rotated one with Hoyte. Played Flamini in the MID. Song maybe should play when every starter is there.
I dont give the title hopes yet … but I can be realistic … Not Math wise but Arsenal is not good enough. The way Arsenal go, we will win 3 games then lose 2 … if we keep winning and tie a game every 8 games or so .. then we can win the title.
Lets hope for an easy third Place rather than 4th. For now, I hope Arsenal can restore the winning line and secure the 3rd place, so we dont have to worry about and simply look more into the CL and the FA CUP.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:51 am
Well, like I said, this game and Bolton were a bit of an anomaly this season compared to our other games in that we conceded more than one goal. So, yes, the defense is *also* becoming a problem. But our only goal yesterday came from a stunning free kick - we need to start scoring from open play with more consistency.
The inclusion of squad players yesterday was, I believe, to rest some of the key players ahead of Spurs, Porto & Chelsea. I expect Wenger's thoughts were, if you can't rest them against Fulham, who can you rest them against? I would definitely like to be rid of Song - he seems absolutely useless. Flamini can do fine for us for a squad player and was by no means our worst player on the field yesterday. I'm undecided on Hoyte - he had both good and bad moments yesterday, and it remains to be seen whether he'll improve sufficiently.
The gelling is the key thing and I'm not sure how Wenger will achieve that. But I suppose that's why he gets the big salary…
November 30th, 2006 at 12:59 pm
The morning after. The shock has not worn off yet. Wenger is saying this and saying that. It’s all bulls**t. Smoke and mirrors. Do not ascribe a complex rationale to Wenger’s team selection. Do not think it was part of complex plan of player management. Wenger is not Machiavelli. Wenger violated the first tenet of coaching in the EPL-there are no easy games in the EPL. He thought Fulham would be an easy game (historically) and his team selection reflected that. He got it wrong.
If we even fall into the relegation zone, Wenger is still the captain to right the ship. I totally support his youth movement. It takes managerial courage to play youth. There is not a manager in the EPL with that type of courage. Why does everyone clamor for Arsenal loanees. We have a clue. Everyone else has been riding our coat tails. It will be a painful, bumpy road and we are at the beginning, not the middle or the end. Who knows, Song may be the next Boa Morte for a soon to be promoted team.
Please read Biggun’s post. We do not have a lock down defense (I am trying not to be facetious). No offense=no wins. It is why I’ve been flogging the 4-5-1, Henry’s play in general, RVP playing on the (L), lack of pace, lack of direct play, lack of targets in the box, lack of quality crosses, inconsistent width in attack, lack of finishing and lack of forwards willing to do what Tomas Radzinski did in order to score. Any Arsenal player who offers up a quote before the Sp*rs game should be transferred in the January transfer window. I don’t want to read one F*****G word out these players. They don’t have that right anymore.