Since recovering from injury, this is Baptista’s record
Newcastle (H) - Played 64 min, quite aweful (I heard).
Hamburg (H) - On for last 10 min, scored a cool goal.
Bolton (A) - On after 60 min, didn’t see too much of the ball.
Fulham (A) - “Rested”.
Tottenham (H) - On for last 10 min, not much action.
Porto (A) - On the bench, but no action.
Chelsea (A) - On the bench, but no action.
7 games, 1 start, total 114 mins, 16 min/game, 1 goal.
Now I know that it takes time to settle in England and that Baptista didn’t have too much of a pre-season. But don’t you feel that he is being under-used?
He can’t play the “1″ that Ade does so well. He can’t play on the wings. For me, his ideal position is the attacking midfielder in the 4-5-1 or support striker in the 4-4-2.
In recent games where we played 4-5-1 (at Bolton, Porto and Chelsea), we have tended to be very defensive. Since Cesc is indispensable, Baptista loses out. Against Hamburg and Tottenham, we played 4-4-2, but Baptista was not preferred.
Does AW know what to do with Baptista? Will we ever see the best of the guy who actually has a better goal scoring record than RvP or Ade. I hope the next few games will tell. Once Henry is back, it might be too late.
24 Responses to “What’s the deal with the Beast?”
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December 11th, 2006 at 2:34 pm
I’m pretty sure that Baptista was bought as a 4th striker, but with the season being so poor and having to revert to 4-5-1 he has seen his playing time limited. Adebayor has grasped the opportunity to stay ahead of him, Baptista is of little use in midfield, we have already seen that at Real Madrid.
Unless Wenger switches to 4-4-2 there’s no point Baptista being at Arsenal, but I still think he should have played more as a direct replacement for Adebayor during the last 15 minutes of games.
4-5-1 against Wigan? I bloody hope not. Should be 4-4-2 and I would like to see Baptista start with Van Persie up front as Adebayor must be tired.
December 11th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
if we do not play Baptista in midfield or up front…
if we do not give him a chance to see what he can do… what the hell was the point of bringing him to the Arsenal??? Makes NO SENSE at all.
He was VERY GOOD at times last season for Real Madrid. We are obviously lacking in more than a few areas…
so PLAY THE F’N BEAST… and lets see what he can do.
It can’t get much worse than we are seeing.
January will be interesting. I expect players to GO. I don’t expect players to arrive. Alaidiare gotta go, he can’t get a game even with Henry out and RVP suspended… there isn’t room for talented young players to hang around and watch, when we are playing like CRAP. If we were rolling … then they’d really be buried on the bench.
I’d love to see Stokes or Bendtner (preferably) come back and get some games, but its NOT going to happen. We know that.
At least play Baptista… otherwise he will RUN out the door at season’s end, without us ever getting a chance to see if he can play football.
December 11th, 2006 at 4:47 pm
No doubt we’ll hear Wenger saying it takes 6 mths for players to adjust….but how can Baptista adjust if he gets almost no game time?
It’s hard to understand, we’re low on strikers, we’re playing with decreasing confidence, we need goals, he’s presumably now fit(ish), why not play him?
As was stated, Ade ran himself into the ground at Chelsea….but no Baptista? not even for 10 or 15 min’s.
He’s not a kid, he’s an experienced pro, he needs to prove himself and ’settle’ before season-end or he’ll probably go.
In 4-5-1 he could play in Ade’s role or in midfield with a licence to get into the box. I would have thought he would have been a huge asset given our current weaknesses. His physical presence would also be appreciated.
The only thing I can think is that Wenger is not happy with his fitness.
December 11th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
Short of match fitness. As it shown in his first start of season against Newcastle. Ppl said afterward he’s c*ap. He’s not. He’s just not match fit. As it shown with the frequency of him losing possessions in that game.
It’s a long season. I’m very sure he will get his chance. When AW feels he’s fit enough, and capable of making a contribution to the team, he WILL play him. From what I heard, the man did not sign a loan deal with Arsenal, he signed a long term contract.
Anyone really believes AW made so much effort to get him only to put him on the bench?!
December 11th, 2006 at 6:16 pm
It’s a long season….he’ll get his chance in the second half of the season….
December 11th, 2006 at 6:20 pm
People believe what they want anyway.
I think it's a bit of both. Agree with you that I think it's the fitness question mostly but I also tend to think it might, and I stress might be a case of not being able to find a proper position, especially when we play 4-5-1. He's not a winger so he won't play wide & unless Gilberto's out, I think in 4-5-1, JP just doesn't have a position he'd be comfortable (or truly effective) in, IMO.
December 11th, 2006 at 6:45 pm
I agree with you, Andez. He’s obviously lacking that sharpness. He may think he’s ready but he needs to impress the boss in training before he gets his chance in a match; esp. a big game like yesterday.
Bottom line is every time he’s played, he’s looked awfully slow. If he needs time to show what he can do, it’s not going to happen for him here. The EPL won’t give him time. Wenger won’t let him go out and embarass himself unless he has no choice. Well, he let Song embarass himself.
Maybe in the spring when it’s not so cold he’ll get his chance. Actually, it’s incredibly mild in Europe this year. I live in Germany and it hasn’t even snowed yet this fall. Baptista didn’t start playing well for Madrid until he’d been there about eight months. Patience gentlemen. His time will come.
December 11th, 2006 at 6:56 pm
This echos my thoughts exactly. We will not be able to hold our heads up if we play 4-5-1 at Wigan. Its now or never with Baptista-either s**t or get off the pot Wenger!
December 11th, 2006 at 7:01 pm
You say it’s a long season when you are still in the hunt. If we don’t get goals/wins in December, then the season can’t end soon enough.
December 11th, 2006 at 7:10 pm
Bendtner is doing that snot nosed kid thing. He won’t go back to the farm (reserves). I can’t blame him. But keep it to yourself a*****e. Don’t alienate people before you even get your shot. You don’t trust Wenger? What’s not to trust. The man who brought Henry, Kanu, Bergkamp, etc., etc., etc. Get a grip.
December 11th, 2006 at 8:08 pm
How much time does he need? He’s been here since September. He was out with an injury for a brief spell. He’s back. It’s December. Our dwindling season in on the line. This is crunch time. This is our game in hand. Everybody into the pool. Stop with the excuses.
December 11th, 2006 at 8:51 pm
I hope we at least bring in a keeper in January
December 11th, 2006 at 8:55 pm
If Wenger does not play him in the league, he should at least play him against Liverpool in the carling cup. I think Ade has been playing in those games, and with the Henry on the mend, we might not see Ade or RVP playing anymore carling cup games soon
December 11th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
Yeah, but we still have to fight for third place…long way to go yet. Can you imagine us finishing 5th….Unthinkable.
December 11th, 2006 at 11:46 pm
Why would a young player “trust Wenger” will give him a chance in the first team?
Why would you NOT understand a young player, playing EXTREMELY well… scoring like crazy… wanting to play football at the highest level.
Don’t think like an Arsenal supporter for a minute, think like the kid, who wants to play at the highest level… and DESERVES to. He has scored goals like he’s popping candy.
He could be injured tomorrow… like Aliadiare was injured … and never get his chance to play. (like Aliadiare NOW)…
I totally understand the likes of Bendtner NOT wanting to ROT in the reserves… or waste his talent in a lower division.
Wenger needs to SHITE or get off the pot with some of these kids, because they are NOT going to wait around for years to see if Arsene will play them. Its crazy to do so. Your window of opportunity as a young player is not that long.
December 12th, 2006 at 4:37 am
AW was willing to pay 16 million GBP for Baptista!!! So he must have seen something. Then, Baptista was lined up as Vieira’s replacement. Now Cesc has taken over that role and is indispensable. And we have signed Rosicky as well.
I don’t think AW got him as a 4th choice striker. You can’t have a Brazilian international as 4th choice. What happens to Aliadiere, Bendtner, etc.? At that time, Wenger may have had no choice with Reyes insisting on going to Real.
I would love to see him used as a striker (now, in Henry’s absence). I would love for us to use 4-4-2 more often. Let’s see if it happens.
December 12th, 2006 at 6:29 am
I agree. At the moment, I think it’s difficult to decide which position would suit him best.
December 12th, 2006 at 9:29 am
Don’t you think that if they’re good enough they’ll get the chance Stag? Boa Morte aside (and I think he’d still struggle to get into our team) Wenger hasn’t been wrong about one young player. Scoring in the reserves, the SPL, the championship, the coca-cola cup is fine, it shows you have potential, but to become a regular in the first team you practically have to be one step away from world class. In a side where Van Persie is not guaranteed a starting place, where Adebayor is only in because Henry is out, does Stokes deserve a place? You’re having a laugh if you think the answer is yes. Eventually it all comes down to the fact that Wenger sees these players every day in training, we see snatched highlights if we’re lucky. For players like Bendtner/Lupoli/Alaidiere/Hoyte/Muamba - they have potential (but not so much as Walcott), so they get a shot on loan to build strength and consistency. 3 seaons ago I’d have told you that Alaidiere is a great player, bangs them in for the reserves and in the coca-cola cup, always looks a handful (just like now). When he got his chance, when arguably he had more pace than now, he was mostly anonymous against Man U in the FA Cup semi. I still rate Aliadiere, but he has to show the manager in training that he cannot be left out, not just go into the press and say ‘I’ll need to look elesewhere unless I’m guaranteed first team football’ (Alaidieirrereiere didn’t, but Bendtner recently has)
December 12th, 2006 at 10:52 am
Bendtner will get his chance at Arsenal if he’s good enough, if he isn’t he won’t. - simple as that.
So far he has done everything right except shoot his mouth off in the press about how will not return to Arsenal unless he is given a first team place - how arrogant. He obviously believes he is already better than seasoned Internationals such as Thierry Henry, Baptista, Van Persie & Adebayor after scoring 9 goals or so for a sh*tty team in the English Championship.
It’s a league in which only 1 or 2 teams out of 24 would have any hope of surviving in the Premiership.
He should shut up and keep trying to prove how good he is, then when he comes back to Arsenal, if he’s showing it in training he will no doubt get his chance - otherwise he can go play for crappy Birmingham the rest of his career and be a nobody.
December 12th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
If Wenger doesn’t think he’s ready then what are you going to do?
I know it’s an anxious time as we’re all dying to see him play but more importantly we want to see him play well and help the team win games. We’ve got to play to win. If he’s not yet strong enough then he’s not. If he was ready, I’m sure Wenger would play him. We’ve got to be patient.
December 12th, 2006 at 2:23 pm
Did you read what I typed?
Look at it from the PLAYERS perspective… NOT Arsene’s or Arsenal’s…
If YOU can’t understand why a young player doing well would be IMPATIENT, and would want to play NOW… you’re having a laugh.
All players are one moment away from a career ending injury… if they player isn’t ARROGANT and COCKY about his abilities, he’s worth shite.
Wenger may choose to not bring him back… or not play whomever… and he’s usually correct… but I can certainly see the other side of it… the PLAYERS side of it.
He’s doing ALL he can with what Arsene gave him… football at Birmingham. He feels he deserves his chance in the top flight. if not now, when?
December 12th, 2006 at 2:25 pm
and to answer your 1st question…
“Don’t you think that if they’re good enough they’ll get the chance Stag? “
HELL NO.
It has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT in MANY CASES… especially at Arsenal.
You can be GOOD ENOUGH… and NEVER GET YOUR CHANCE.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:42 am
an example is?
December 13th, 2006 at 6:04 am
Fair enough it didn’t seem too clear to me, especially as any Arsenal players fate is completely linked to Arsene and Arsenal.
I appreciate the career is short, but personally I don’t agree with wanting your players to be threatening to leave unless they are guaranteed a spot. Of course every player should believe in themselves and want to play, but they don’t have to **AYE CARUMBA**(censored) to the press about it. The history of Wenger’s youth policy is littered with players demanding a chance in the press, moaning about a non-english bias, of course it’s not their fault that they can’t get a game, it’s someone else’s fault. On the other side there are players like Clichy, Eboue and Fabregas who get their head down and let their football do the talking.