Replacing Gilberto requires three main things:
1/ The ability to break up the opponents play, and avoid cautions/ free kicks where possible.
2/ To pass the ball out of the Arsenal side of the pitch playing simple 10 yard balls to the creative midfielders in the team. This might sound like I am dumming down his role but get this right and we keep possesion and build play.
3/ Protect the back four. OK Clichy & Eboue do go forward a lot and this is a good point. The also go for 50 - 50 balls which if they win them, looks amazing, but if they lose them they look silly. Gilberto covers the back four and fills in where needed. This is a very discplined process that he does and can be missed, especially when we win the 50 - 50 ball.
Flamini can break up play, he tends to jump in a bit early and will give away needless free kicks, potentially picking up a card on the way. This is a risk and why I dont think he should start against Man U.
Djourou could do this role but may miss out on point three here. He can play simple balls all day long, make decisive challenges and has good postional play.
Other potential players would be Song, not enough experience for such a big occasion, I think most people would agree with this.
Diaby, could do the role, but is he fit?
Denilson, see Song, not enough experience.
Toure, probably the best fit, but then the two CB’s look weak, presuming Gallas is not fit.
So perhaps the best fit is to play as a back 5, with Toure and Djourou taking turns filling in at CB and DM.
What do you think?
19 Responses to “Replacing Gilberto”
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January 19th, 2007 at 4:20 am
I’d put in Flamini, he has really stepped up in the big games this season; have we forgotten that goal at Chelski?
Diaby isn’t ready for a match of this magnitude, and I honestly can’t even entertain some of the other possibilities suggested (moving Kolo out of the back four NOW??). I can’t see us moving away from a central midfield of Cesc and Flamini, Mathieu also has incredible stamina and should be able to keep up match from beginning to end.
I see us going very offensive in this match at home, nothing like a back 5. What have we got to lose?
January 19th, 2007 at 4:54 am
U got a fine point on Djourou as DM, Chalfie. From what I known, Djourou used to play as a DM in reserve/youth team. And his game does look a nature to fill in to this position.
Personally, I think the requirement to back up Gilberto’s anchor role is only one thing - STRENGTH.
When u got it, it makes your job much easier. That’s the difference between Gilberto and Flamini. If anything, Flamini works even harder than Gilberto, and he certainly passes the ball better. But his lack of size and strength offers a major handicapp in his game if he ever wants to make it as good DM.
Djourou got the size and strength. A solid passer with fine technic. As he’s the 4th choice central half and Wenger often sticks with his pecking order, it’s a waste to see him warming the bench.
If Wenger has successfully transformed Emmanuel Petit from a central half to a DM, why not Djourou?
January 19th, 2007 at 5:44 am
great comparison about petit.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:41 am
Was Petit not LB to centre mid? Either way he was a mature player with very good technique. Djourou’s conversion is certainly a possibility, if only to stop people going on about Toure playing in midfield - it is getting really tired now, but maybe against Man U is not the game to try it.
Much as I think Flamini dives into the tackle (and I’m sure he has had this mentioned to him as the last time he did it against Hamburg, Van Der Vaart smacked one in from 25 yards) he still represents the most experienced option for this game (it would be lovely if Diaby was just another 2 months fitter). We can compensate for Gilberto by playing 451 with Fabregas, Flamini and Rosicky in the middle but we have so many options for this game it’s a difficult choice for Wenger…451 or 442? Adebayor or Van Persie? Baptista? Djourou or Senderos? Meanwhile, Fergie knows the way to beat Arsenal is to kick them and be sharp into the tackle but he has no tacklers in midfield, he tried playing football against us and was outplayed at Old Trafford. What can he do to counter our ability to keep the ball so well? If ROoney has to drop deep, Saha or Larsson will be really isolated.
Having said all that, I’m with you for the strength idea. When Rooney drops off the mani striker who would you rather pick him up Djourou or Flamini? I’d be swayed by Djourou, but let the Mancs worry about us before we worry about them.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:32 am
I like Flamini’s fitness and popping up unexpectedly to score. But he does not have the height to deal with high balls and he is easily brushed off the ball by more physical players. Those 2 weaknesses IMO does not make him an effective Gilberto. In those terms, Diaby would be a better long term replacement. Diaby is also stronger is bringing the ball up from defence with his comfort on the ball. However Diaby’s defensive play in terms of positioning ala Gilberto is still not good but the same could be said for Flamini. Jury is still out on Song and Denilson. Toure is too invaluable as CB to have him do anything else, especially the way he marshalls the defensive line to catch opponents offside. Djourou could be a possibility as he has the physical attributes, recovers very fast and can tackle.
As most have speculated, Wenger will start Flamini against Manure with Cesc in the middle. Though I prefer Djourou to start in defence partnering Toure to provide the speedy recovery in the event Clichy gets beaten, I expect Wenger to start Sendoros. Sendoros have done very well in the last few games so hopefully, he will continue that great form this Sunday.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:56 am
Size and strenght are not requirements to be a good DM. Makelele is just like Flamini, Mascherano also, Davids is short too, though he has the strenght… I think that to be a good DM you need to read the game well, the timing of the tackles is important, and to be a good passer. Hey, even ManUtd. don’t have a strong DM. They have Carrick who is very slim and certanly not stronger than Flamini. So why we should be worried, I think they should be more worried than us.
Agree on Djourou though, he can be a good DM. But Flamini brings something different to this team, he makes runs from behind and is very dangerous for the opponents. Scored against Chelsea, scored against Liverpool, scored against Blackburn, scored against Dinamo Zagreb. Not bad for a defensive midfielder.
I would go with Flamini for this one.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:07 am
Lets not get confused with what we have seen so far this season with Flamini.
He has not replaced Gilberto in too many games in fact he has played as a central player, further up the pitch or a right sided midfielder.
This is why he has scored goals.
However remember Gilberto has scored 7 goals this season, mainly from quick breaks and set plays.
Set plays have mainly been with his head due to his height and positioning and on the break he has been making those last minute runs.
Flamini has come on this season, but not playing as a defensive midfielder and that is why he has caught the eye.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:15 am
True, but all I wanted to say is that it is in his blood to make those runs, whether he is playing as a DM or as a CM. And he is a good passer too.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:25 am
I don’t think there’s any doubt that Makalele and Davids are stronger with lower centres of gravity than Flamini, I’d favour those 2 to have a chance of knocking Rooney off the ball with their strength alone, Mathieu will just have to take his legs and the yellow that follows! The key attribute like you say is the ability to read the game, Gilberto is very good at this and often doesn’t have to make the tackle because he’s positioned himself to stop the pass, and this is probably where Flamini falls down a bit, sure he makes runs and it is something different, but discipline is all important for a DM.
100% agree, they should be more worried about us, especially after we outplayed them at OT.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:29 am
If Diaby’s fit physically n mentally he’s the closest replacement for Gilberto. However he’s not fit and hence Wenger will play Flamini alongside Cesc in CM. Djourou wont play , just because a person is comfortable on the ball in central defence wouldnt necessarily mean he’ll be great in CM. Ledley King played there once against Riqueleme and got rings run all around him. Djourou might fit in but its not a foregone conclusion.
All this however is irrelevant and AW will play Flamini there, I’m almost certain knowing his mentality.If we’re down he might scrap the DM and play Baptista there.
January 19th, 2007 at 9:14 am
Flamini will have had a whole week to focus on the DM role. If he is to live up to the tag of ‘utility player’ (whether he wants it or not), this another moment for glory. Wenger will NOT be doing anything radical with this position. So those of you with thoughts of Djourou, Diaby, and Denilson dancing in your heads can fudgit it aboot it.
January 19th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Not sure about Mascherano or Carrick but Makelele and Davids are physically much stronger players than Flamini. It is not often to see them (especially Makelele) get pushed off the ball easily. The same cannot be said about Flamini. I recommend the next time u watch Flamini play, count the number of times he gets muscled out of the ball. In the case of height, Makelele and Davids have the benefit of Terry and King who are both very strong in the air and reads the game very well to cover for any misses by their DMs. The same cannot be said for Toure (in terms of heading ability) and for Sendoros (in terms of reading the game but he will improve with more games).
But irrespective of what we all say, Wenger has already made up his mind and it is Flamini in place of Gilberto though I IMHO, I do not think that should be a long term solution.
January 19th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Flamini played great against Chelsea, and against Pool in the other big game of the year. He'll be fine, we'll be fine. Sure, he's not Gilberto but he's done the job when needed this year. So let's not second guess things and tweak with the lineup because one guy's out. I wouldn't be at all surprised either if Matty goes and gets himself another big goal.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
I would play flamini ahead of all other cadidates just because of 1 single reason - experience. Flamini has played in more big games in CM this season against Chelski, and Liverpool. If anything is more important against ManU this sunday it would be nerves. I’m afraid if we put another CM in there they may not be able to handle the pressure. By ability and trait Diaby/Denilson are our ideal future CM to learn from Gilberto to play that role, but they ain’t ready for such a big game. Let Flamini fill gilberto’s role where at least he’s got some experience doing it in big games.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Gilberto’s replacement will be Flamini. With Flamini fit and knowing all week that he would be playing that role, he will be ready and will do a fine job.
Fabregas will play a bit deeper and help Flamini out. He’ll make runs forward as they present themselves but he’s proven he can still pull strings and create plays from deep. Hleb and Rosicky will also start and I expect them to pinch in a bit more centrally, helping out the midfield.
All this other talk about any one else playing for Gilberto on Sunday is nonsense. Denilson won’t even make the bench, Djourou’s a CB. Song will be on the bench but will only play in an emergency and will be saved for the Spurs game. Diaby is neither fit enough nor good enough to play that role. Five in the back is absurd, unless United play three up front. Everyone, including you, knows Flamini’s the best option and Arsenal would be foolish to try something else on Sunday.
January 19th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Djourou is injured and Song is with Cameroon on the ANC for U-20s. That leaves us with Flamini as an only option.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Hargreaves anyone? Long time replacement for Gilberto.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Long time replacement for Gilberto are Song and Muamba. In two-three years time they will be 21, and should be ready to take over from the vice-captain.
Even if Hargreaves is available he is too expensive, Bayern want ?25M, and I read that ManUtd. have offered ?20M, so he is out of reach, I don’t think Wenger will spend that much on a player like Hargreaves.
I say go for Diarra who is unsettled at Real Madrid, maybe he would be available.
January 21st, 2007 at 10:21 am
Is Diarra unsettled because A) he’s not playing well B)Capello is an as****e C) A & B or D) Gago is clearly playing better after just 2 games. This doesn’t mean we should take on other teams overpriced mistakes. Our future DM will come from Song/ Diaby/ Denilson/ Muamba. We will sell players but we will not bring in a player for that role. The player who can best shut down attacks and support the offense will get the role.