Don’t hate the player, hate the game!
In this case, for me… the “game” would be, allowing your best players to leave and not replacing them.
Frankly, I don’t get some of the folks who show such disdain and a lack of respect for a player like Thierry Henry. Quite probably, Henry is the best striker to ever pull the Arsenal shirt on. He’s been nothing short of fantastic for us. His goal totals are untouchable.
Here’s a few stats for you haters:
2001-2002: 32 goals (7 goals in 7 CL games.)
2002-2003: 32 goals & 23 assists (7 goals in 12 CL games.)
2003-2004: 38 goals for Arsenal, (5 in 10 CL games, 10 in 9 games for France)
2004-2005: 30 goals & 15 assists for Arsenal, (5 in 10 CL games, 2 in 4 games for France)
2005-2006: 33 goals for Arsenal (5 in 10 CL games)
2006-2007: 12 goals in 24 games for Arsenal w/7 assists, and 3 goals in 7 World Cup games, including the winner against Brazil.
So Henry was both fatigued and injured last year… and seeing how much football he played over the previous 12 months, you’d almost expect ANY human being to be a little less than their best.
But all of sudden, there are many folks out there who think he’s past it, he’s lost a step, he isn’t as fast, he isn’t as good, they’d rather have Eto’o or “insert name here”.
To those folks, I ask in all sincerity, have you lost your f**kin’ mind?
Or are you just pissed off because he speaks his mind? Why would you be upset with Henry, if his teammates love him? If they play with him day in and day out, and all are asking him to please stay, why in the hell should we even consider selling him, unless he asks to leave?
If he wants to go, I’m of two minds.
Tell him no! You’re under contract mate. We’re better with him in the team. OR
Let him go, because he’s been fantastic for the club and we don’t want/need unhappy players.
But regardless, I wouldn’t belittle what he’s done, and what he is still very much capable of doing on the pitch. One less that fantastic season does NOT mean you’re career is on the downside.
And please, look at the statistics above for you folks that have the audacity to say that he doesn’t play well in big games? Its a stupid, idiotic thing to say. Simple as that.
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE… the pinnacle of club competition… he has 30 goals in 54 games for the Arsenal since 2001-2002.
Please, if you don’t think he plays well in big matches, what do those stats say?
It says to me, you might want to use your head for something besides a hat rack, if you think Henry doesn’t perform on the big stage.
So what am I on about? I’m on about people getting all pissed off with players for wanting to win trophies, or advance their career, or speaking their minds. They are HUMAN BEINGS like you and me, just get paid a helluva lot more.
Vieira was Captain Fantastic while here. But people love to downplay what he did and what he meant to the team.
Cole was outstanding at the club, and people (on this site), often referred to him as the best left back in the world, (let alone the EPL), but now he’s at Chelsea, so he isn’t that good any more, and Clichy is better anyway.
And now that it appears possible Thierry Henry, quite possibly the best player we’ve ever had at the club… MIGHT be leaving, or talking about leaving, or is rumored to be leaving… its just to much to take for some, without taking shots at the player and his abilities.
Yes, the club will go on without Henry and Wenger and whomever you like. Henry said the same thing in a recent interview on Soccernet. But if you think players like Henry come along very often, you are sadly mistaken. They don’t. He’s not average. He’s not even very good. He’s the best striker we’ve ever had. Take a look at the stats again. Please. They are breathtaking. So are the things he does on the pitch. Awesome.
It would be a major loss and a big blow if he goes, don’t kid yourself to think otherwise.
And if he does go, wish him well… thank him for what he’s done at the club… instead of bitching and moaning about the man.
Obviously, I hope he never leaves, and spends the rest of his career at the Arsenal. Because I love the Arsenal, and will support them regardless… but its much more fun to watch with Henry in the team, and we’re much better with him.
I’ve said it before… it is NOT ALL ABOUT THE SHIRT. Its also about the PLAYERS who are wearing the shirt, and how they play. Thats why some supporters don’t like Eboue. We’d never go for a Lee Bowyer or Sherringham… it is about THE PLAYERS and style and class they bring, as much as the Red & White shirt with the cannon.
40 Responses to “Don’t be a playa hater!”
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June 18th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
thanks chris for this wonderful article.. completely agree with you mate..
i just hope he stays on.. actually b4 reading this even i was of the feeling that eto’o coming would be better for the club as he’s 25 while thierry will be 30 this august.. but you have completely changed my view..
The time it takes for the strikers to gel with a team is quite long.. and on the field we have clearly seen that henry shares that special chemistry with that arsenal style of play… like his through ball to van Persie during that match against ManU at Emirates.. his movement against Madrid last yr.. etc.. etc..and specially the role that he plays in killig off smaller opponents likes Burrouh, Pompey, etc over the years… something we failed miserably doing last yr..
Even i believe that his stay here is paramount next season.. bcoz without him we can forget thinking about the title, and can only remain wishful about our chances in other competitions..
Just have that innate feeling that if all us gooners, specially at such recognized fan sites launch a “Thierry Henry - Gunner Forever” campaign , we can play our part in convincing him to stay at Emirates all his life..
June 18th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
I happen to think Henry is probably the best striker to ever put on an Arsenal shirt, and I respect his talent and what he’s done for the club. But no player is bigger than the club, and it is Henry’s attitude as of late that I take issue with.
A true leader doesn’t whine about being tired of finishing fourth in the table — he rises to the occasion. He was injured for part of the season, but out of the gate he (as much of the squad did) looked flat after Germany ‘06. I cannot condone any whining from any player, regardless of their talent.
Bottom line, I don’t see him leaving this season as every year there are rumors and every year he stays — but even if he did leave, he’d be replaced by a talented striker. Wenger is an amazing manager, with a knack for picking out young talent, but he isn’t (nor is the board) crazy - he knows that he’d have to replace #14 with someone closer to that level of play.
I support Arsenal, not individuals. He takes off for Barca or Milan or wherever, well, that’s fine. But football is a team sport. I’d be disappointed to see him leave, but my loyalties are to the players who are with the club.
June 18th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
I haven’t read people wanting Henry to leave too frequently but maybe I just missed it. As far as I know, the general Arsenal fan appreciates what he brings to the team and want him to stay if he want’s to stay. If he wants to leave then that’s all together different; let him leave. I haven’t heard anyone say otherwise. If you have it was probably a Liverpool or Spurs fan impersonating an Arsenal fan.
I, personally, have spoken against Henry being captain but that wasn’t against Henry but strikers in general being captains. Sure Raul won a title last night but when was the last time a striker won a title as captain? More importantly, do you believe Raul’s leadership was the true reason Real won that title? That’s all I’ve got.
June 18th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
I second Joshuad, haven’t really read too many folks being Henry haters on this site.
I understand not necessary everyone would love Henry, but I do believe 99% Gooners would rate Titi as probably the GREATEST player ever wear an Arsenal shirt. We don’t even need the stats to understand that.
The thing here is - Arsenal DOES NOT want Henry to leave. Arsene Wenger DOES not want Henry to leave. But IF Henry wants to leave, who can stop him to? Not with the player power today.
IF Henry does want to leave, WHOSE FALSE IT IS? It can’t possibly be the club, nor the manager, nor the fans’ false right?
You may argue because Arsenal did not sign big names, so Henry wants to leave. But hell, since when A PLAYER starts to RUN A TEAM?
Who’s going to be signed, who’s not, who’s going to be sold, who’s to be kept, it’s the MANAGER’S JOB. Why a manager has to give in to his star player’s request?
If every player shares a same belief that - THE CLUB MUST MAKE ME HAPPY FIRST, the TEAM SECOND. Then there would be NO Arsenal today. Tony Adams, Dennis Bergkamp would have left long ago when they were playing with a much hopless supporting cast.
I think the reason ppl are not happy about the latest Henry rumor is - the majority of folks here are ARSENAL FANS FIRST, individual players second.
I love Henry, because he’s an Arsenal player. I love Tony Adams, Patrick Vieira base the same reason. If he’s Steve Gerrard, and wants to leave Liverpool, like hell do I care.
Likewise, if Henry’s playing for Liverpool and he wants to leave Liverpool for Barcelona because of a BETTER CHANCE WINNING TROPHIES, go ahead.
And I am pretty sure had Cashley Cole not an Arsenal player, he could go anywhere he wanted, the Gunner fans couldn’t have care less.
It’s true Henry has every right to look after his own interest, as every normal human being does. But really, his own interest has nothing to do with us supporting ARSENAL.
June 18th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Seems to me that Vieira at the end wanted to STAY. Wenger sold him off.
Now it seems that Henry is in Cleveland watching basketball, and Wenger is allegedly considering selling him.
That would be WENGER, not Henry.
I agree, if he wants to go, there isn’t alot Wenger or Arsenal can do, but I believe it gets to the point, as it did with Vieira, that you’d like to feel as if the club WANTS you to stay. If Arsene says to Henry, you can go… instead of I want you to stay… what does that say?
June 18th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
I understand your point, Stag.
June 18th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
“Allegedly” is the operative word on the Wenger front. EPL football takes the cake when it comes to rumor mills in sport.
Henry was in Cleveland to support his pal and countryman Tony Parker. What’s that to do with what he does for the club? It’s the off season. If it were the Friday before ManU away, or the Carling Cup final, I’d be concerned. But it’s not.
IF Wenger is looking to move Henry, you can bank on it being for beau coup money and you can also bet on him bringing in someone else to replace Henry (Eto’o, Owen, fill-in-the-big-name-of-the-week-here).
He made the transfer with Chelsea at the last minute and brought in Gallas (a move I will withhold judgement on until I see the man play a full season at the Emirates). Gallas, regardless of how you feel about him, is a big name. I’m not worried too about it. Arsenal will continue to be Arsenal with or without Henry, and they will win again without him, as they did twice in the 9 seasons prior to him arriving at Arsenal.
Whatever happens, I support the club. What else can you do? Nick Hornby put sports allegiances in probably the best perspective I can come up with when he said that they can be more frustrating than a personal relationship due to the fact that you can always find a new significant other — but your support for a team is basically an ‘for better or for worse, until death do us part’ affair.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
I am an Arsenal supporter, not a Vieira supporter, not a Henry supporter. If it is best for Arsenal that he should be sold, then he should be sold.
I look at Bergkamp. Once a year in April he would complain that he had heard nothing about re-signing for next year, but Arsenal was the only option. He would occasionally mutter about being taken off after 70 minutes in every games but he acknowledged that Wenger did it because of stats that showed his contribution dipped after that time but he still didn’t agree with it.
He never said that he was an Arsenal player for now. He never said that he was flattered by the attention from Milan. He said that if Arsenal didn’t want him, he would retire. His ego never got bigger than the club. He accepted being substituted and being dropped. He knew he couldn’t play every game. He mde the transition from most important player - Player of the Year in England - to a supporting role. Some players cannot make that transition. Vieira wanted to stay at Arsenal but only if he was the main man. If Gilberto and Fabregas were both going to play a lot of games and his time was reduced, he wasn’t prepared to accept that. Ljungberg, for all his faults, has accepted this transition. Others, like Keown and Parlour, Arsenal men to the core, accepted a diminishing role as their powers faded.
Now, I am not saying that Henry’s powers are fading and that he should accept a diminished role. I also do not know what went on with him being injured or dropped the season just gone. However, if I was manager, I would know a lot more than anyone else about what went on and how it will affect the team. That is why I will accept whatever Wenger decides. Nobody is bigger than the club. If Wenger believes Henry is not good for the team any more, sell him. If that turns out to be the wrong decision, don’t renew Wenger’s contract. Simple.
Of course, none of that may happen. Wenger may decide to keep Henry. There may not even be a decision to make in his mind this summer. Some day he will have to make that decision about Henry. Either way, I am an Arsenal supporter and I will continue supporting the team.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Stag, you know WHY Wenger would sell Vieira at the first place?
Had him never been flirting around with Real Madrid in the previous seasons before he was sold, would Wenger still had sold him?
The thing is, that summer when Vieira almost joined Real Madrid, I think it caught Wenger and Dein cold. Arsenal was not ready, and clearly Wenger never expected Vieira was serious.
But he was. (I read his book). He did seriously consider joining Real Madrid until the LAST MINUTE.
You know what that means? That means the whole season followed virtually decided by Paddy’s one split second of his final thought. Had him chosen to join Real, we would be left with NO TIME for a replacement.
That’s the situation you get when u r facing STAR PLAYERS fooling around with the club whether they want to stay or leave.
The season followed, I bet Wenger had learned the lesson and started to prepare for Vieira’s departure. He started to consider the ALTERNATIVE. The last thing he wanted was the same thing happened again.
Cesc’s emergency sealed Vieira’s fate.
It’s rather the same with Henry now. Think of that - he could have left us at the last minute as well last season? Again, Wenger was left in a situation HAD Henry did not make a last minute U-turn, we would be left with no time for seeking proper replacment.
Now the same thing seems to happen again…
Tell me, if you were the gaffer, would that p’ss u off? These are two players Wenger had stood by them through thick and thin more than virtually everyone else at Arsenal.
When the moment of truth comes, when Arsenal need them more than ever, they are fooling around with Arsenal.
In Henry’s case, if he wants to leave, say so. If he wants to stay, say it NOW. Don’t tell us something like “at the moment I am an Arsenal player…”
WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT MEAN? Or does he want to wait until the final moment to make up his mind again? How the team is going to properly prepare for the new season with things go on like this?
June 18th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Spot on, Andez. Another consideration is if you’re contemplating leaving Arsenal or even worse have decided you want to leave. as the team captain how truly committed can you be to leading the team?
The idea of making a player who happens to be your captain stay simply because he has a contract is completely unacceptable. For some players, if you’re not sure you can still carry on and be a professional ala Pires. But if you’re the captain and leader of the team and your mind is on anything but leading the team to victory every single match and winning every trophy then that’s simply not the right answer and you need to be relieved of the captaincy at least until you pull your head out of your ass and decide what you want.
Wenger is still learning as a manager. He’s learned from Anelka, Overmars, Reyes and others and after the Vieira debacle, I’m sure he’s prepared to show Henry the door. That doesn’t mean he wants to but if it comes down to the wire, Wenger will have a plan. To not be prepared when you know better is unprofessional and we’re talking about The Professor.
June 18th, 2007 at 6:27 pm
I don’t know whether Henry will stay or leave, but I do know ONE thing, and almost for sure - SHOULD Henry STAY, and next season we find ourselves struggling again (touch wood!), the same “Will He? Won’t He (leaving Arsenal)?” rumors will re-surface again.
If Wenger ever consider selling him, it’s probably he has figured out you can never win with an unsettled dressing room. Particular if this is your captain, like joshuad pointed out, and the rest of the team aware that this is a captain probably would end up be the first one to jump ship when the ship is sinking. Then it can’t be doing the team any good can it?
Might as well keeping the players who do really want to play for the club and fight for the clause when things start to get tough.
June 18th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Andez, I agree with you mate, but not 100%. Last year Henry made the decision one or two days after the CL Final and how is that no time to find a replacement, when you have the whole summer to find the right player. Agree on everything else though.
June 18th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
U r right Sheed, my mistake. Hopefully he will let us know what he really wants to do as early as possible this time around too. And if he decides to stay, stay committed, don’t look at the league table standing and decides what he’s going to do next.
June 18th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
Stag, I’m sure there is not one Arsenal supporter that wants to see Henry out of the club. But if his mind is somewhere else, and it seems that it is, what can you do about it, if not to sell him?
Get real Stag, if a player wants to leave, you can’t do much about it. And if Wenger is prepared to sell him, he must know that Henry wants a change, otherwise he won’t sell him for ?1B.
And what’s all that with the statistics? We all know who Thierry is and what he has done for the club, hell, even for the English football too, but that is all in the past. If he is not playing well now(and wants to leave), you would still keep him, only because he had a great past? Then we should sign Raul, Couto, Djorkaeff, Thuram, Figo, Rivaldo, Ronaldo… and we would be the best right?
June 18th, 2007 at 7:46 pm
If Henry leaves I would only be disappointed if Wenger bought 1 world class replacement instead of 2. I don’t know why, but if Wenger bought Eto’o and Owen and sold Henry somehow I feel we’d be better off - more of a goal threat. And part of my reason for not minding is because Henry is not only the best striker that ever played for Arsenal, but he also has the biggest ego of any Arsenal player ever - the biggest head. Sometimes I don’t think his ego helps the team and sometimes I think the play revolves too much around Henry, so when he isn’t their the team is lost and lacks direction and belief. Maybe Wenger thinks all that too, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he sold Henry while he could get big money for him and bought Eto’o and another top striker. Having said that, if Henry stays I would be perfectly happy ego or otherwise.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
There is zero evidence that if Henry were sold, Wenger would bring in a replacement. The biggest mistake was not selling Vieira, it was not replacing him with someone who had some steel & experience in the middle of the park.
The only reason Henry is/would consider leaving Arsenal, is because Wenger keeps saying he is going to buy “super class” players every year… one or two… and then we sign a 17 yr. old from Norway.
What message does that give the older players in the squad, when we keep getting younger and younger … its certainly not saying that we want to win trophies THIS YEAR or NEXT… its looking way too far down the road for the likes of Henry or Gilberto… or any player in their late 20’s or near 30. We all know what Arsene does when you’re over 30. Fecks you about with 1 year deals or sells you off.
I don’t blame Henry one iota for keeping his options open.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
First, Wenger always says that he would buy one or two ’super class’ players if he can find the right ones and are at some reasonable price.
Second, he got Gallas, Rosicky and Baptista the last year, so that are three super-class players, why are you whining? Oh, don’t forget Denilson, yes, he is still a kid but could be the best buy of all them.
And third, if he loves the club so much, like he says, he will stay, no matter what? Look at Shearer as an example, he stayed at Newcastle and they are every year in the middle of the table. Del Piero, Nedved, Buffon… to name a few, stayed at Juve to help them to win promotion in Serie A, and they have done that because they love the club. And don’t forget that Nedved and Del Piero are older than Henry and don’t have much time left to win something again, but they still decided to stay.
So if he loves the club, he will stay. If he doesn’t give a fu*k, he can go wherever he wants.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
That’s a mistake there with the ” ? “
June 18th, 2007 at 9:27 pm
And Stags, at the time Vieira left, Baptista was the target he was pursuing to replace him… but Real beat him to the punch. Who knew the Beast wasn’t going to be such a great fit in London? Hindsight is 20/20… but at the time, it was a blow to not sign him.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
Gallas Rosicky Baptista and Denilson are “super class”?
None of them have ever proven to be “super class players”, or even close.
I’d say Gallas was/is the closest to having proven anything with his play.
It doesn’t have much to do with loving the club.
Henry can LOVE THE CLUB and Wenger can say, we are selling you.
Then what? Whats Henry supposed to do or say?
There is no loyalty EITHER WAY, so stop the idiotic comments about loving the club. The clubs don’t love the players, so why should they love the club in return. Arsenal are king for jettisoning players when they hit a certain age… so please save the non-sense.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
…and anyway, it isn’t like we’re talking about a guy who is in the twilight of his career and hasn’t won anything at Arsenal. He’s won 2 League titles and 2 FA Cups. These past couple of seasons have been lean, yeah, but again — leaders don’t complain when the chips are down, they rise to the occasion.
It seems to me that someone has forgotten who has given him the shot to make a name for himself. He couldn’t play in Serie A before… the Italian game wasn’t suited to his style of play. What makes him think he’ll have any success there given a second chance? And the two perennial top Spanish teams are like Chelsea. They won’t be patient with a guy who doesn’t produce quickly and consistently, and there is an adjustment to be made (need an example? look at Baptista as one immediate example) Every time you turn around, Barca and Real are looking for the next big name to sign.
If he does leave, it would seem to me that it wouldn’t be a calculated move in any area save the financial side of it. Henry’s best chance to succeed is to ride it out in London, not high tail it to the Continent.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
And Stag, I will say this for one last time, it was the experienced players who didn’t perform last year, not the kids. Apart from Gilberto, no one from the other experienced players stepped up and played like we all know they can. And the youngsters have done well, from Clichy, Djourou…Cesc, Diaby to Walcott, Ade and RvP. We can only be proud of them.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
Stag, please. You believe that if Henry leaves the club, it would be because the club wanted to sell him? You are wrong man, Wenger would sell him only if Henry wants to leave. That’s a fact. Even a three years old baby won’t sell Henry if he wants to stay.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
TH is the greatest player I have ever watched on a consistent basis, and the most enjoyable player to watch - my all time Arsenal favorite.
TH is not my choice for team captain - that has been discussed at depth over the last year on this site.
I have no idea what’s going on in the dressing room, nor what to expect in that regard for the upcoming year if TH stays. However, if he stays, he could become a ‘cancer’ depending on how things go.
I do not believe that what TH has been saying is the voice of a captain who is trying to rally the troops. I believe he is allowing his inner frustrations to boil over in a non-constructive way.
I believe it is probable that TH’s injuries (especially severe sciatica) are now chronic and will plague him throughout the rest of his career. Yes, he will score more goals, win more games with spetacular play, etc., but at a startling lower frequency (see last year). I don’t believe the prolonged rest will cure this, only postpone his next extended shelf-time.
I will not be suprised if TH is elsewhere to begin the upcoming season. I will miss him, but I’m not going to jump out of a window. I will miss what he did, not what he is doing(saying) now, and not what I expect he will do in the future (which is not near the level of what he has done in the past).
I have watched sport for over 40 years. Situations change, players leave, rosters change, coaches leave, ownership evolves. What’s going on here is nothing new from this perspective, no matter how great the player. If TH leaves, will Arsenal be a mid-table team? I don’t know, but I doubt it. If TH leaves, will a new opportunity arise? Most definitely - and I love suprises. It is a risk management decision for all involved. I’m going to watch it evolve and enjoy it.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
Stag, super-class and world-class are two different terms man. There aren’t many world-class players nowadays, you can name them on your fingers. Kaka, Ronaldinho, Henry and maybe Eto’o… I can’t think about someone else.
All the other quality players you can call super-class and if Rosicky is not a super-class, tell me who is.
Baptista had 50 goals in two years at Sevilla, so he was super-class player when Wenger wanted to sign him as a Vieira replacement, and you don’t forget how to play football over night, so he is still a super-class player for me.
And Gallas? Well, he was Chelsea’s best defender, forget about Terry, Gallas was the man.
So, yes, they are super-class players.
June 18th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Please stag, it’s NOT Wenger who insists to offer players over 30s a one year deal, it’s the CLUB POLICY for God’s sake.
In fact, when Wenger first took charge of Arsenal, when he learned about our old back 4’s salary, the first thing he said “it can’t be right” (as Arsenal under George Graham never fought for his players’ salary with the board), before soon getting the entire back 4 a pay-rise.
How many managers would do that?
As far as I am concerned, if a player is fully committed to the team’s clause, Wenger would be doing his upmost to KEEP them. Adams (35), Bergkamp (36), Keown (37), Dixon (38), Bould (35), Seaman (39)…. that was how old they left the club. How are you going to explain that?
You know what those players in common - NONE of them ever MOAN.
June 18th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Well said fstanin.
June 18th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
“Gallas Rosicky Baptista and Denilson are “super class”?
None of them have ever proven to be “super class players”, or even close.
I’d say Gallas was/is the closest to having proven anything with his play.”
Let me remind you Stag - you were among the one who gave Wenger most sticks when AW failed to land Baptista at that time.
So now he’s no longer “super class players” huh?
June 19th, 2007 at 1:34 am
As far as Henry leaving, he has until the end of his vacation to decide as far as I’m concerned. He may have already decided what he wants to do.
But as the captain it is imperative that he state his intentions immediately upon his return from holiday and let the whole world hear it from his mouth.
That way he’s truly done his part as captain, the club and players can be settled on this front, and plan accordingly. No more people saying, “I’d welcome Henry” and “he’s a player we’re very interested in” and all that crap.
That way, Henry is truly blameless for all the rumors as he’s already said what’s important and there are no more rumors to answer for.
June 19th, 2007 at 1:36 am
BTW, I love that picture of Chapelle. But Henry can’t plead the “FIF”.
June 19th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
thank you for your great post, Chris!
People have such a short-term memory, it amazes me!
I want to see Henry stay at Arsenal ’till the end so that I can go to his testimonial and thank him with the other 60,000 people!
June 19th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
It looks like to me that Henry is the one with short memory. It seems that he has forgotten what Arsene Wenger and Arsenal had done for him.
June 20th, 2007 at 3:30 am
maybe I am naive, but I think the press will publish whatever sells.
Clearly, having a new article every single day about Henry leaving Arsenal or not being “a gunner for life” sells papers!
Until I see Henry in an uncut video interview (not just quotes taken from here and there) or on Arsenal.com, then I am just ignoring all the rubbish that people will print.
To paraphrase Dave Chappelle:
I’ll believe that Henry is leaving, if a girl is holding up two forms of government ID, a cop is standing there, a couple of my boys and Neil taking notes, and Henry’s grandma there to confirm his identity.
June 20th, 2007 at 6:04 am
I started visiting this site at the beginning of last season, and I must say there’s a lot of short term memory going around when it comes to people’s opinion of Henry; not the player, but the man.
How many times has someone posted about his body language during games or deemed any statement from him as whining? I believe it was after the first leg CL match at PSV that some here questioned his interest and his “sulking ways” during the game, not knowing or even considering that he was playing hurt for the club. Once the foot injury was revealed, the source of his reduced pace the previous few games, someone even questioned why Thierry feels the need to tell us every time he’s hurt. Maybe it’s because if he doesn’t, people will continue to stereotype him as a disinterested prima donna.
Thierry’s sabbatical was another fine example. Of all the comments on the training ground bust up, I don’t recall reading anything other than, and I’m paraphrasing here, Henry isn’t putting in the required effort needed and Wenger sat him down until he would. Again, did anyone consider that Henry, being the captain, the talisman, was playing hurt because that’s what leaders, rightly or wrongly, do? The fact that his poor form hurt the club (having only part of a great player) was ultimately why Wenger made his decision, the right one.
But no, it was because Henry didn’t care, wasn’t working, and has such an inflated ego that he thought he would always be in the first eleven.
Joshaud, here are some other strikers as captains who have won trophies in the last couple of years off the top of my head:
Totti (Roma): won the Coppa Italia this year.
Pauleta (PSG): won the Coupe de France last year.
I take exception to the comment about Raul’s leadership. Basically, you’ve had this mantra that strikers don’t win anything as captains, and here was a recent example which you completely blew off as a fluke. Worse, you marginalized the player’s impact on a team that you probably don’t see much of, and are in no position to judge. You make leadership sound like a very small part of a trophy winning side except, I’m guessing, when the captain is a non-striker because it fits your argument.
While I’m not someone who would be comfortable with an Adriano or a van Nistelrooy being a captain, strikers are not all cut from the same cloth, and one shouldn’t scoff at the notion of their captaincy on general principle. Nor should they nitpick a player like Henry simply to fuel a futile campaign for a change in captaincy.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:52 am
Understand JC, my point is and has always been that teams with strikers as captains generally don’t win championship titles. I repeatedly stated that strikers should be focused soley on scoring goals. I’ve also said that it would take an exceptional person to be an effective striker and lead a team to a championship. I have also continually given Henry praise for being exceptional. I simply parphrased that on this thread because stag and others on this site have heard me say this many times.
Secondly, those examples you gave aren’t Championship titles but merely cup trophies. Everyone knows the best team wins championships but to win a cup title all you need is luck. Do you believe that PSG were the best team in France last year? I think they finished in 14th place.
As far as Real Madrid winning, they had Beckham who’s captained his country, Cannavaro who’s captained his club and country, Roberto Carlos, Emerson, Diarra, and plenty of other experienced leaders that I believe truly led the team and allowed the strikers to be strikers. It is exceptionally difficult to lead a team and be a striker. Since becoming captain, both Henry and Raul’s cutting edge in front of goal has been dulled. You may think it’s a coincidence but I believe it has to do with the extra duty bestowed upon them.
Most importantly, I believe with all that is within me that leadership is a necessary quality to be successful in any team endeavor. It’s my way of life and not a mantra. I’ve been a soldier for seventeen years and KNOW FIRST HAND the importance of leadership being a deciding factor in determining whether people live or die. My very livelihood and that of the kids that work for me depends on my leadership so don’t disrespect me by comparing my way of life to some dumb ass soccer trophies.
June 20th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
I did not know of your military service, Joshaud, nor would I ever intend to liken it to the trivial by comparison, sporting world.
Raul’s scoring has gone down because he has been playing a support role for some time now. The days of the Pichichi trophy are well behind him. Take the armband off of him and it will not improve. However, I think Raul is comfortable in this role, the same way Bergkamp was.
Yes, there are plenty of players on Real Madrid who have been leaders for country or other clubs, but Beckham and Cannavaro do not have the tenure to command the respect more than the Spanish legend that has spent his entire career at the club and has played a pivotal role during its glory years. I think every team should have leadership in all positions of play, but that doesn’t mean that Raul’s on Madrid is just the same as the others, or that he’s just another leader among many. He is the fulcrum for his club and I think the side top to bottom realize that and act accordingly.
Okay, so only league titles count? Very well. I guess Arsenal should be in good position for cup competitions then. What some wouldn’t give to have some of those “merely cup trophies” in Arsenal’s display case.
I think we overestimate the effect of the captaincy on a player, as if they can’t walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. I relate this to Henry’s comments and the response I hear a lot is “He should be concentrating on getting fit for the new season” as if he’s not doing that as well, like talking to the media for a few minutes is a severe detriment to his development.
I’d be curious if anyone here who has played forward at any level, and somehow, football gods be damned, was appointed captain. How did you handle the situation and did you notice a change in how you played?
June 20th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
JC, my point with strikers being captains, and I’ve said this numerous times, is this; most (not all) great strikers tend to be kind of weird brand of person. All they care about is scoring goals. They need to have the liberty to be as weird as necessary to have that cutting edge and be at their best as strikers. Because they’re so weird you never know who’s going to show up each day.
Leaders need to be more predictable. When Vieira was here the players knew exactly what would get PV4 jumping in their arse. If you didn’t track back and defend, here comes Paddy. If you play for yourself and not for the team, here comes Paddy. If you make a bad pass, Vieira won’t yell because you’re trying to make a play.
On the other hand, if you make a bad pass to Henry, one minute he’ll clap with his hands over his head praising your effort and five minutes later, he’s yelling at you because you made a bad pass. Where’s the line with Henry? What’s right and what’s wrong? Where’s the consistency? the predictability? The weirdness that makes him a brilliant striker also makes him a crap leader.
Sure you have exceptions like Shearer but as a captain, he never won anything for club or country. As for Raul, what’s different from the last time Madrid won a title to this past weekend? Los Galacticos, the most talented team ever assembled, won not a damn thing for 4 years. Well, 4 years ago, Hierro was captain and he, along with Makelele left Madrid. This season Cannavaro, a leader, comes in and Real are champs again. No Cannavaro and Barca 3-peat? I think so but that’s my opinion and that’s what this site is all about.
June 20th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
No matter how fantastic player Thierry is, he is not a true leader and simply he is not the right choice to be our captain. I would prefer Gilberto, Cesc, Kolo and Jens before him, that’s for sure.
June 20th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
The consistency, or lack thereof, is a much better argument than strikers having too much on their plate. I would add, however, that predictability also makes it easier for players to tune out said leader, though that’s more a reflection on them than the captain.
Agree to disagree on Cannavaro’s impact on the club, particularly considering how weak Madrid were at the back, especially down the stretch (one clean sheet in the last eleven games), and how often they found themselves behind only to pull off comeback after comeback.
June 21st, 2007 at 11:32 pm
I think the point is. Yes, I love Henry, when people think Arsenal, they’re talking about Henry. I also Loved Viera, our fearless Captain for years. I never wanted him to go because I know he’s the backbone of our mid field, without him, we’d get bossed around.
However, Viera fucked with us for a couple summers, always thinking if he wanted to go to Real, or not. It didn’t do our team spirit any good, and in fact it made other unsettled. Although he now claims that Arsenal didn’t “keep” him, what he’s saying is that Arsene didn’t go down on his knees and begged him to stay. That attitude was all wrong and no team needs a player who doesn’t want to play for us.
Now to Henry. I don’t mind him saying that he is not happy with our performance and that he wants to win trophies. If he still wants to play for us, then he’s good with me. But if he doesn’t, then will leave.
I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with your views on how important Henry is to our club. We know he’s irreplaceable, but then again we still managed to salvage 4th place with mostly youngsters and a few over-the-hill veteran players. That means we are still able to be “good” without Henry, and of course no where close to being “great”.
All I”m saying is that we can’t let one player determine our club’s fate. Look at united, they lost their best striker and still managed to win the league without replacing him. United played as a TEAM this year, with everyone scoring goals. We need the same from our team, with or with out Henry.
if we’re ever going to win the Champions league or the Prem again, we need to have a TEAM that can score, not just henry. He’s 30, and is near the end of his prime. If we don’t start looking for his replacement soon, he may leave before we do.