Now that Henry is gone, how would it affect the team?
I think it really depends on the players’ flame of mind. They can either think:
(1) Oh man, now we have lost our Messiah, the coming season is as good as finished. I better ring my agent to see if there is any way out of this sinking ship.
OR
(2) Now the captain has gone. Why he left? Well, maybe he thought we were not good enough. Otherwise why go Barcelona to play the “Arsenal way”? Let’s go out and show him nothing is better than the “original”.
I hope the players will take this as a “chance” rather than a “crisis”. Henry and Gallas had come out and claimed the younger players in the team should “shoulder more responsibility” last season. Now, whether they like it or not, the kids will have no choice but stepping up.
It may not necessary to be a bad thing. As with the real life, the kids learn and grow faster when they got no one to depend on.
Meanwhile, I can’t help but think that the players will now be able to play with a sense of freedom, to freely express themselves on the pitch without the necessary to worry about whether a poor pass they made would earn themselves an annoying glance from their captain in return.
Of course, I understand this is only my wishful thinking. In the end, it’s still up to the players’ own mentality. If they are the winners inside, they will have no problem. Nothing is gonna stop a winner from winning. Of course, on the other hand, if they born with a loser mentality, then they might come out and blame the tea lady for not fixing them up with a good cup of tea during the break after a defeat.
So far we haven’t heard from any Arsenal player to come out and say anything yet in the wake of Titi’s departure. Let’s wait and see what they are really made of.
28 Responses to “How will the team respond?”
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June 25th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Andez, Thanks for the new thread.
Every problem is an opportunity.
Senderos flourished after Campbell got injured.
Cesc flourished after Vieira left.
Eboue flourished after Lauren got injured.
RvP flourished after Bergkamp left.
Clichy flourished after Cole left.
I do think the team will improve and perform better in Henry’s absence. That’s not to say that we won’t miss him. There will be games when we struggle to score and wish Henry were around. There will be games where we need a sparkle and wish Henry could do a mazy run like the one against Liverpool in 01-02. But we can only hope that the rest of the team learns and gets better.
As for the debate on how good Diaby is, well, Gilberto is out for the pre-season and maybe a few early games. Let’s see if Diaby steps up.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
The players that “flourished” were kids, that all lacked experience and it showed, and cost us points.
Thats to be expected. Is it acceptable is the question.
Clichy is not Cole, RVP is not Bergy, Eboue is a different player to Lauren, Sendy is not Campbell, and Cesc and Vieira are completely different players as well.
Diaby, has had short moments of brilliance, but frankly the jury is definitely out on him as well.
Previously, we were aiming at winning trophies every year, thats not a realistic expectation any longer. Its not fair on the kids, as they are going to be very inconsistent. We can beat United one day, and lose to Sheffield the next… thats not going to win a league title.
It will be interesting to see what Wenger does, who is brought in if anyone, and how they will gel with the team and/or adapt to English Football.
We’ll miss Henry quite a bit… because nobody on our team has consistently scored goals in their career.
Yaya Toure signing with Barcelona… dubbed a defensive midfield specialist, at 6.5 Million GBP. Should I be shocked we didn’t sign him and shuttle off Gilberto? Heck, Gilberto is over 30… isn’t it time to replace him?
I am glad Gilberto is still here for now, we desperately need him and Gallas in the team to provide some sort of experience and balance in this team.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
Arsenal will make one major signing, that player will be World class and experienced, hot money is going on Owen. The ship will be steadied and back on course. Those young players you spoke of Stag grew up last season, I would not swap Arsenals team for any of the other big 3…would you?
June 25th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
Wanna talk a bit more of Diaby.
I think the biggest problem of Diaby is he’s rather offensive minded a midfielder, that means it’s difficult for Wenger to play him and Fabregas together in the central of field in a 4-4-2 lineup. It’d hurt us defensively.
As a result, last season we saw Diaby playing wide right, or push forward up front. So it’s difficult to judge him when he rarely played in his NATRUAL position. That say, he will become a useful Cesc backup in case Fabregas goes down.
Having said that, of course we won’t expect him to be a “backup”. He got too much talent as a backup. So the way i see it, there are only two alternatives:
1. We hope he will learn and improve quicker in his DEFENSIVE side of game. This guy has a pair of long legs, he can tackle if he put his heart into it, and works on his TIMING.
And he will have no choice but to learn the defensive of game, this is a must in the modern game for a central midfielder, if he really wants to make it big.
2. AW could shift to 4-5-1 to fit him and Cesc into the same lineup, with Gilberto sitting behind them. But this is not ideal, ‘cos we are a 4-4-2 side. Regardless of all the different formation changes over the years, I still believe 4-4-2 is the best formation which gives u a good BALANCE on every area of the pitch. And it proved, as many formations like Sweeper, or 3-5-2 wings back, once a trend, yet never last. So will 4-5-1, soon it will get found out.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
They’ll get someone in there. Might be Huntelaar, could be Anelka, Babel or Owen… maybe the Toffees will sell Johnson. Nobody can say who. I think the midfield needs a boost more, but they’ll probably pick up a striker.
Whatever though. Speculation is just that. Nobody can ever really know what’ll happen.
But since we are speculating, I’d like to add Cisse to the wish list. I’ve always liked his style (well, not really the Dennis Rodman hairdos so much…) and the Reds are looking to get rid of him.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
“Previously, we were aiming at winning trophies every year, thats not a realistic expectation any longer. ”
So quit doing it (expectating it).
June 25th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
ryecatcher, reply a post of u here. An interesting topic, who’s the GREATEST player!
i only rate those i actually watched them play. Never saw Pele play, so I’d put Diego Maradonna as the GREATEST. Singlehandly carried Argentina and Napoli to glory, an amazing player with great great skills.
Platini is my second choice. I think he’s better than Zidane. For his sheer ability to rise to BIG OCCASSION and dictiate a game or an entire tournament singlehandly. He scored NINE goals in Euro 1984 Finals as a MIDFIELDER!! Incrediable!
Then it’s Ronaldo, the Brazilian Ronaldo. Again, because of his ability to rise to big occassions. And I watched him when he was 19, i think he had played his BEST when he was still a kid, around 18 to early 20s until he got injuried. Back then he could dribble past everybody and score goals.
I don’t know where will i rank Henry, but i’ll rate him higher than Zidane. Because of his CONSISTENCY. Arguably the MOST CONSISTENT performer in the Premiership for a long time. It’s something not too many players could achieve in their domestic league. Certiainly not Ronaldinho.
But i will see Henry as a HUGH TALENT who never reached his FULL POTENTIAL. He could have done and achieved more than he had, and certainly could have played better…. IF he had worked on his workrate, and his header. This guy jumps higher than a lot of central defenders. Only if he could head a ball, he could have scored 40 goals for Arsenal per season.
As for England goes, I rate Glenn Hoddle as the most TALENTED player for the past 20 years. A English version of Dennis Bergkamp. Like Platini once said, HAD Glenn Hoddle being French,he would have won over 100 caps for his country. England, however, never appreicate those so called “luxury player”.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Liam Brady….hands down!
June 25th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
Andez, I agree with you about Platini. if you put Maradonna and Platini in today’s action they would’ve been even more productive, since it is a less violent game and the red card easilly flaged when a heard foul is committed.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:34 pm
…Would you say there are more skilled players now than back in the day? Or less?
June 26th, 2007 at 12:44 am
Good point eddie. They say the modern players if going back old days would rule. I doubt it. ‘Cos back then football was still a “contact sport”. The tackles were flying, so much so almost ended Maradonna’s career prematurely when he was at Spain.
I don’t think Henry would dare to dribble the ball if he had to face Vinne Jones, Stuart Pearce the likes with no “tackle from behind” rule to protect him.
C. Ronaldo would have been torn into pieces had he dared to nutmegged the opposing defenders like he’s been doing today.
All that just shows how amazing a talent Maradona was, you really needed COURAGEOUS to dribble those yesteryears.
HAD Maradona playing in today’s game, I doubt anyone would possibly stop him, without being sent off.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:49 am
BTW, we saw players tend to move to bigger club, richer club, to play alongside better quality teammates, in order to win their MEDALS…. in an easier way.
I remember Maradona in fact moved away from Barcelona to a NOBODY club Napoli back in the 80s….. yet he still managed to carry his team to glory, without much of a supporting cast.
I guess that’s a mark of a TRUE GREATNESS.
June 26th, 2007 at 1:33 am
What about the legend that was Igor Stephanovs? We were never quite the same without him!
June 26th, 2007 at 1:45 am
Andez, you are entitled to your opinion.. but so far as your argument goes, I gotta say it doesn’t hold any water whatsoever. The claim you are making is one that is based on an argument that has an illogical premise; here’s what I mean:
Point A —
You put Platini as your # overall and 2, and ahead of Zidane based on the argument that Platini possesses the “sheer ability to rise to BIG OCCASSION and dictiate a game or an entire tournament singlehandly”… particularly citing Euro ‘84 as your example.
Okay, while l I won’t argue that Platini was a phenomenal player for France, Zidane, in his callups for Les Bleu, has been just as much of a BIG OCCASION player… and actually, if you are looking strictly at World Cup play (which is the biggest stage of them all) Zidane was even BIGGER than Platini . Zizou’s two goals (hell all it took was the first one) beat Brazil in the ‘98 final. In Euro 2000, he had a goal in the quarterfinals to beat Spain as well as the game winner in the semis against Portugal… and was awarded Player of the Tournament. He was the only French player to have 3 goals in Portugal ‘04… In Germany last year, Zidane was the straw that stirred the drink. It was Zizou who set up Henry’s goal that beat Brazil in the quarterfinals, and he was all over the place the entire match besides (why do you think he won Man of the Match?), he had the only goal against Portugal in the semis, and the only goal for France in regular time against Italy. Had he kept his temper and not headbutted Materazzi, France might very well have won on penalty kicks… Christ, he was the Golden Ball winner! He was directly involved in every goal from the quarterfinals on. As far as the World Cup goes, there is NO COMPARISON bewteen the two. Zizou is the France’s WC hero.
Point B –
You put Henry ahead of Zidane based on Henry’s being “arguably the MOST CONSISTENT performer in the Premiership for a long time”. Consistency necessarily doesn’t equate greatness. At the age of 28 (a year younger than Henry was this morning), Zizou was sold to Real for £45 million… and besides that, since Zizou never played in the Premiership, your claims of consistency in the EPL is absolutely irrelevant to your argument.
As far as consistency, Zidane has won more awards for his play than you can shake a stick at — 3 time FIFA World player of the year, in 2004 was voted the UEFA Golden Jubilee Poll winner (the player deemed the best in European football in the last 50 years) — and BTW, Henry didn’t even make the top 50 on the ballot.
BUT (here’s the major error in this part of your argument), you put Platini at #2 all time based strictly on his International performances… and Zizou behind him, yet Henry, who is nowhere near Zidane in the category of International play places ahead of Zizou based on the same criteria you use to put Platini ahead of Henry AND Zidane. In case you want to argue numbers on the international stage, Henry placed 2nd as FIFA World Player of the Year twice; Zizou on the other hand WON the award outright 3 times (beating Henry out in ‘03!) and was also a runner up 3 other years. Is that consistency on Zidane’s part? I’d say so.
Also “great” doesn’t necessarily mean number of goals scored. Henry is a striker, Zidane and Platini were both midfielders. Of course Henry will have more goals. Skillwise, Zidane’s footwork and his playmaking ability is legendary. That was what got him all those awards. He scored big goals, but he was also an instrumental playmaker as well as a field general. Zizou’s intangibles set him apart from the pack. I’m hardly the only one who seems to think so, as I’ve already stated, the 2004 poll put Zidane just ahead of Franz Beckenbauer as the greatest European footballer in the last half century. But, of course, I realize that too is a matter of opinion.
As I told you already, my problem is with your supporting rhetoric, not your choice of players.
You ought to rethink that argument, because it makes no logical sense… you should go back brush up on your Aristotle. Meanwhile, regardless of polls, goals or arguments, I’m still sticking with Zidane as the world’s greatest player in at least the last 20 years.
Cheers, mate.
So I don’t see your
June 26th, 2007 at 1:56 am
But you forgot of one point - Throughout Zidane’s career, particular AFTER he moved to Juventus, he was playing with players with far greater qualities than Platini.
Be it with Juve, Real Madrid or France national team.
Back in the Platini days, they got a great midfield, otherwise the quality of the forward and defenders can’t even come close to compare with what Zidane played with, arguably the golden generation of French football.
Platini led France to two World Cup semi-finals. On both occassions, lost to Germany. But he never really had that strong supporting cast as Zidane had.
Like the case of Maradona, I build my argument based on their ability to LIFT A WHOLE TEAM. Not just being brilliant individually.
Eric Cantona says it well “With or without Pele, Brazil would have won their 3 World Cup (which Pele was involved”….. But WITHOUT Maradona, Argentina would NEVER have won the World Cup 86″.
June 26th, 2007 at 2:53 am
Sure, Platini didn’t have the supporting staff, but if the bot were on the other foot, and Zidane were the one playing in the 70’s, he very likely would have held up his end of the bargain. He was one tough customer and had mad skills. Anyways, it’s speculation. The numbers are all we have to show for anything, and Zizou DID step up — which was my point. Your claim implied that he didn’t.
With regards to your Maradona comment, I’ll say this: all star roster or not, without Zidane, France doesn’t win in 98 or even make it to the finals in 2006. Name one French player in Germany last year, besides Zizou, really stood out on an otherwise underachieving French squad — and I mean end to end, not just scoring goals. Who else really stepped up and carried the team? They sleep walked through the group stage, and it was pretty much all Zidane in the knockout round. He didn’t get the Golden Ball for his headbutt, ya know.
…and besides that, Zizou never needed his hands to score goals. ;-).
June 26th, 2007 at 3:13 am
…oh yeah, Andez, I forgot to point out the one detail of the argument that you keep overlooking (and it’s my own fault for not mentioning it in the first place, but I love a good argument) — I said both in my initial claim, as well as to my first rebuttal to your own statement — I’m talking about in the past 20 years. Platini, Pele and whomever else you want to throw out there from before 1987 have no bearing on my claim.
And anyway, I’m still taking Zizou and Ronaldinho over Maradona (those were the three guys I listed as my top 3 in the past 20 years).
June 26th, 2007 at 4:22 am
I still rate Maradona as the greatest ever. There’s simply not a more intimidating figure in the world with the ball at their feet. Henry is the only one that comes close.
Ronaldinho second all-time, are you freaking kidding me? You mean the same Ronaldinho who showed up so big in the World Cup last year? I can rate people playing now over him to include Thierry Henry and Kaka. He definitely takes a back seat to Zidane.
One thing I have to agree with Andez is that Henry, as great as he is, never really performed to his maximum ability, atleast not yet. I remember right before the World Cup writing a thread about this very thing. He has all the tools that say he should be mentioned in the same breath if not ahead of Maradona and Pele. Perhaps he will be one day.
Like Andez, I’m not too familiar with Pele. I saw him come to Jacksonville with the Cosmos to play the Teamen when I was like eight. I only remember going to the game and not the game itself. My personal top five that I’ve seen play are: Maradona, Zidane, Henry, Ronaldo, Cantona. There’s still quite a way to go before we get to Ronaldinho.
P.S. What the heck kind of name is The Jacksonville Teamen?
June 26th, 2007 at 4:45 am
Glad to see that I opened a discussion about who is the greatest player ever. That award World Player of the Year means nothing to me, when I see players like Cannavaro wins it, and guys like Beckham and Lampard are in the top three. Henry should have won that award at least two times but he had never won it because of Arsenal’s failiure to win the CL. Had he been in a more respected club like Barca or Madrid I’m sure he would have won it. But, statisticaly he had the numbers to win that awars at least twice. I hope this year he will lead Barca to success and finally got the recognition he deserves.
And Stag, how many times we need to tell you that Yaya Toure is NOT a defensive midfielder, let alone defensive midfield specialist. He is a Diaby type of player, very good technically and likes to go forward, he is not like Gilberto.
June 26th, 2007 at 5:07 am
And to say something about the thread
Well, as you said Andez, I expected some players to moan anout the sale of Henry, especially Gallas and Adebayor, but that’s not been the case by now. We should see if something changes in that respect in the coming days.
And I too believe that we will play better without Henry, infact we have some great games without him the last season and I don’t see a reason why that on’t be the case this season as well. His body language was fu*king awful and now with Gilberto captaining the side full time I expect the guys to be more free on the pitch and play like they know. And I expect RvP to have a great season and to score 20+ goals.
At the end, Tevez said he would jump at the chance to play for Arsenal. Now Wenger is on the move. Let’s wait an see.
June 26th, 2007 at 5:32 am
“That award World Player of the Year means nothing to me, when I see players like Cannavaro wins it, and guys like Beckham and Lampard are in the top three. Henry should have won that award at least two times but he had never won it because of Arsenal’s failiure to win the CL.”
I feel exactly the same way Sheed. I remember I was actually watching the award ceremony (normally wouldn’t have bothered) in 2002 I think, when Ronaldo, Zidane and Henry were the final 3. As Arsenal had just done the “double”, while Zidane weren’t that impressive that season, and Ronaldo hardly even played. I thought it gotta be Henry’s year. In the end, I couldn’t believe Ronaldo won it ahead of Henry! The guy basically won it because of that 7 games he played in the World Cup final.
What p*ss me most is - with the World Cup Final, they already had that Golden Ball award for the best player of the tournament, if they had to pick a World Cup winner as the World Player of the Year, why bother to have that Golden Ball award at the first place?
The worst thing is - I remember Michael Owen had won the European of the Year after Liverpool’s so-called “treble” season (UEFA Cup, FA Cup, Carling Cup). Yet Henry had won a “Double”, the REAL thing - League and FA Cup, then later on followed with an UNBEATEN season which had to be seen as a remarkable achievement. Plenty of players had won the World Cup, CL… how many actually did win their domestic league without a single defeat?
Yet in both occassions, Titi not even won an European of the Year award.
Now he has gone to Barcelona, maybe he will finally win one. Still, it’s a shame that NO Arsenal player has yet to win any of those awards.
June 26th, 2007 at 6:25 am
Just quoting what is being “said” of Toure.
Thats what they called him, a defensive midfield specialist.
I’d rather have Gilberto, that was my point… but what we typically do is sell the Gilberto (30yr old) and bring in the youngster.
It will HEAT up about Wenger and Cesc now… those are the next 2 targets for Barca and Madrid. Expect to see it daily, unless Wenger commits.
And before you go on about it all being lies… how many HENRY IS GOING NOWHERE have we seen on this site.
If you throw enough crap against the wall, some of it will stick. Sometimes there IS fire where there is smoke.
TEVEZ answers all the questions for us.
June 26th, 2007 at 8:24 am
“If you throw enough crap against the wall, some of it will stick. ”
Exactly, Stag. So for 2 yrs. of constant lying, finally one of the Spanish press stories stuck. And don’t hurt yourself patting yourself on the back, Stag, for being right for once.
And as I said before, here I’ll type it in caps, Stag-style for you- IF CESC LEAVES HE’LL COST WAY MORE THAN HENRY SINCE CESC IS ONLY 20 & HE HAS AT LEAST 5 YEARS TO GO ON HIS CONTRACT. So Barca will have to pay much more for that fire.
Besides, you’re the one boo-hooing over Henry leaving, so I’m one of the ones who frankly doesn’t give a damn that I was wrong about Henry not staying b/c I feel that Arsenal are poised to finish 4th or higher even if they were not to bring in ANYBODY, Mr. Caps-a-lot.
June 26th, 2007 at 8:27 am
GBGUnner! Stepanovs?? Are you crazy! He was no Omer Riza! THere’d be no Thierry Henry w/o Omer Riza! Or Alberto Mendes!
June 26th, 2007 at 9:55 am
I never said Henry was leaving.
Never wanted him to leave. (partially because I doubt we’ll replace him)
So it wasn’t me that was right.
I wouldn’t really care if Cesc left, to be honest… because he wants to leave for Barcelona eventually, and I believe he’s more committed to Wenger than Arsenal.
I think he can be replaced.
He’s never won anything.
June 26th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Point given, Stag.
I guess my point is always this (even though sometimes If all to emotion to & don’t always opine what I’m actually thinking):
There’s nothing wrong with getting down when something bad happens just do it when it happens, not several weeks before.
So, with that said- yes, you’re right, Cesc may eventually leave but let’s worry about it when it happens. Don’t get me wrong, I understand you have to plan for the future & possibly leavings of players but Cesc’s case is different than Henry’s, as you stated.
I just think that you’re not giving the Arsenal name enough credit. I think we can still attract really good players with or w/o Henry, with or w/o Wenger. If anything that’s where Wenger has helped the club the most, IMO- He’s made Arsenal a club with a brand of football where players want to play, not a “boring, boring Arsenal.”
June 26th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
On the FIFA World Player of the Year: I think it’s pretty clear that there’s a bias against players in the Premiership, or at the very least, accomplishments in La Liga and Serie A are given more weight with voters. Sometimes, they don’t even have to have any team accomplishments or standout European performances to win the award.
Take 2004 for example. Henry was the European Golden Boot winner for an unbeaten Premiership side that reached the quarterfinals of the CL, while Ronaldinho (15 goals in La Liga) and Barcelona finished second in their league and were playing UEFA Cup football (knocked out in the fourth round against Celtic, the only two games he participated).
Andez, I wish Henry had been so lucky in 2002. He actually finished ninth, sandwiched between Beckham and Owen. They were the only three players from the Premiership in the voting (at least the top ten).
I think the Golden Ball voting for the last World Cup was just as egregious. Zidane was magnificent in the Brazil game, no question, but his performance in other games varied, making that particular game a wonderful aberration. In fact, if Brazil had played Zidane anything like Portugal did the next game, Zidane wouldn’t even have made the team of the tournament, much less the short list for the Golden Ball. Yet, we had people, even legends like Beckenbauer gift-wrapping the award for him even before the final was played. The fact that the 2006 FIFA World Player of the Year acted as the real Golden Ball voting put the whole process into further question as did Zidane somehow finishing third.
July 2nd, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Ignoring the “best player” portion of this thread and looking at the team response part- I am worried about the older heads jumping ship. I really wonder how Gallas looks at all this. I half expect him to go as well.
As for the rest of the team, I think we saw them last year. Cesc has now made some statements. Gilberto gets the armband, and maybe mid-table teams have a go at us and give us more opportunity for a win.