Jul 23
Arsenal today announced that they have sold Freddie Ljungberg to West Ham for an undisclosed fee (although the BBC and SKY say it’s about 3.3 million pounds). Freddie’s departure truly marks the end of an era. At nine years, he was the longest-serving Arsenal player, and the last of the great “Double” side of 2001-2002. Freddie’s form has definitely dropped off in recent years, but that’s mostly due to injury. If he stays healthy, West Ham have just gotten themselves a bargain.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:36 am
Goodluck to him! Hopefully he can string a few games together to make a proper impact.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:39 am
AW summed it up perfectly - Freddie is a winner and always gave absolutely everything when he played for this Club.
Freddie, we love you because you are red through and through.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:44 am
Our loss, their gain… for 3 million?!
He wanted to go, so good luck to him.
Not sure what this says when he’d choose West Ham over Arsenal… other than he probably wouldn’t be guaranteed playing time.
We could have used his experience. The guard has completely changed. We have very little in the way of experiened players who’ve won titles.
I suppose it will give more playing time to younger players.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:46 am
All in all we need just two ingredients to challenge this next season:
1) 50% less injuries
2) Collecting at least 12 out of our first 15 points.
IF these two happen I can guarantee top-2 finish because the quality is there. However if we lose or draw our first match, then we will be playing catchup from the very beginning….and this young squad just doesnt have “boucebackability” yet. They will have that in two years not now.
As it stands our squad for the CL qualifier will be:
——————————-Lehmann————————————
——————————————————————————-
Sagna———–Toure——————Gallas—————Clichy
——————————————————————————-
Hleb————–Diaby————–Fabregas————Rosicky
——————————————————————————–
——————–Adebayor———Van Persie———————
Bench: Fabianski, Hoyte, Senderos, Walcott, Denilson, Eduardo, Bendtner.
This should be able to overpower a generic East European side…considering our squad for last years qualifier was much worse!
Anyway, I hope we do get a rather weak team … and definitely nobody from Germany, Italy or Spain! A nice Irish or Welsh team would do just fine!
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:50 am
stag, what f-cking experience are u talking about??? the experience of scoring 1 goal in 2 seasons??? moaning about henry leaving is one thing…but moaning about ljunberg leaving is retarded!
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:51 am
definately passed his prime and can’t be counted on due to injuries that seem to be a recurring problem. Too high a salary to have on the club given his production drop off. Notice that no one even talked about Freddie leading into the season.
Had a great run though and was a tremendous contributer when healthy and able.
The only thing that drives me crazy though is the comments that every player makes when they leave a club. Freddie goes on to talk about how he was promised big signings coming into the club in recent years and felt that he didn’t want to be a part of rebuildning with Henry having left. Freddie then goes on to say that he is excited by the rebuilding process that is going on at West Ham, noting their excellent academy, etc. How can you be more excited by rebuiling with West Ham?
I know it is all lip service and that every player who has left any club says it, but it always drives me crazy and why don’t people (media, fans, etc.) call players out on this garbage?
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:52 am
I do feel that this will liberate Walcott on the right wing. This will be a big year for him. We have seen the youngsters mature, but only when they were given playing time, and often at the cost of some points. I still believe Wenger will sign a winger but probably not anybody we have heard of.
Apart from the experience, we will miss the winning mentality of the players who left. Freddie, Henry, Campbell, Bergkamp, Vieira and Pires were all winners who cannot be replaced just like that. It’s no coincidence that none of them were winners at the club level before they came to Arsenal (with the possible exception of Bergkamp). The youngsters will gain experience along the way. Hopefully they will pick up a winning mentality too.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:53 am
I’ll miss Freddie. and the fact that I won’t get to sing his song when I finally get to see the Arsenal in England. Good Luck to him, although I hope we trounce his new side twice this season.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:55 am
Good luck Freddie, I hope you are happy there.
Now, I think this was expected, he wasn’t performing well for the past couple of seasons, and it was a matter of time when he was going to be sold. The reported fee of around 3.5 mil. is in my opinion a good business, coz you just can’t sell a player who 30 years old with a high wage for more than that. Who would buy him for, let’s say 6/7 mil and match his current wage? No one, so this is a good business, we have saved some money from his wage too.
Should we expect Wenger to sign another winger now, especially if Reyes leaves too? Or AW will decide to give Randall a chance in the first team? We don’t know yet, and only the time will tell.
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:01 am
@ nipuna, u right, more playing time for walcott is good. now we really need to balance things and buy a backup for rosicky at LM.
also: yeah we do miss the experience of those veterans like Freddie, Henry, Campbell, Bergie, Vieira, Pires……but lets remember that even though they were “winners” in the PL context…they were still “chokers” in the European and “winning-two-titles-in-a-row” context.
this team at fruition in a couple of years will be great. how great? we will find out.
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:04 am
Good luck to Freddie, I hope his injuries clear up but can’t see it happening. He should have gone to Italy where it’s less physical.
4 goals in 2 years?? Not good enough. Pace has gone. £70k a week. Total no-brainer to get rid. If Freddie was anything like the player he was I’d love him to stay. But £3m + £3.6m saved in wages is great business - after a third year on the sidelines, he’d be so forgotten about he’d probably have to go on a free.
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:04 am
The squad average age is 22.5, only outfield players included. Now imagine this team in a couple of seasons, do you believe there will be a team able to match us?
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:11 am
I know that it is tough to see the players that produced great things in the past leave the squad, but why is it people get so upset about this. He has done nothing but cash his checks for 2 years!
Freddie was like an old boat…when he was running, he was afternoons of endless fun, when he wasn’t running he was nothing but a cash dump! I fear that Henry is closer to this path as well. Maybe I am wearing my Arsenal glasses here, but only time will tell.
I think that this will be great for Arsenal and Theo Walcott. Now Theo can go about his business his way and avoid the comparisons to Freddie and the rest of the old gaurd.
It is quite appearent that Arsene will not pay for past performance. We should want it no other way.
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:24 am
The more I think about what is going on with Arsenal and the selling of “the invincibles,” the more and more I think back to the great Boston Celtics teams of the 80’s.
I don’t know if any of you even follow the NBA, but my beloved Boston Celtics took the exact opposite path that Arsenal is taking right now. Having assembled arguably the greatest team ever, they chose not to trade Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parrish, Dennis Johnson, etc. in order not to cause a major riot throughout the city of Boston and a lack of balls by management.
The end result was watching aging stars struggle to take the court due to injury and when they could, they performed at 50-75% of what they once were. Had they begun trading these players when their decline was showing in 1988-90 vs riding them out until 1992-95 they would have been able to get young players in return. But they didn’t. The Boston Celtics have sucked since 1990! That is the price you pay when you don’t overhaul your roster at the right time.
You don’t want to be a Boston Celtics fan right now…in fact there aren’t many Boston Celtics fans right now!
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:32 am
Why not? Pierce and Allen are enough for the team to reach the playoffs :))))))
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:42 am
Ahh Celtics bascketball. Its faaaaaantastic. Good years = 3-4 palyoff games and an average draft pick. Bad years= just enough wins to miss out on a good draft pick. THE SWEET LIFE RIGHT THERE!
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:07 am
This age thing is a big deal. Everyone seems to think ManU will be just as good this year. I for one do not. Scholes and neville are 32 Giggs 33 Ole and silvestre are both over 30.
There is not much chance in my opinoin that Giggs and Scholes can play those midfield positions as well as they did last year again. Darn near career years for both.
Liverpool might struggle to find the net early in the year while Torres and Voronin adapt.
Chelsea with their big egos might just fall apart if the going gets tough early on.
Sprus have too many new players to challenge for more than a UEFA spot.
I realize these are a bunch of big IFS but I don’t beleive my analysis is far off.
Oh yeah good luck Freddie.
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:17 am
Yeah emonahan, exactly! I stayed in Massachuttes early of the 90s, and it was the time Celtics really struggled. The sight of a washup McHale and Parrish carrying the team struggling to even make the playoff was pretty sad.
Anyway, in football terms, let’s look no further than Liverpool of the early 90s. Kenny Dalglish was guilty on relying too much on his veteran stars, rarely gave any youngstersa chance. and when he left, Souness took over, he found himself facing a massive rebuilding process. The whole “rebuliding process” has not lasted for nearly two decades, they are still “rebuilding”.
so i can’t understand how anyone could think we are not heading towards the right direction with all those kids coming up?
imagine had we never sold any of our “Invincible” squad the past two years, and we are still relying that squad for the coming season, we are going to have a hugh problem.
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:24 am
One name I thought to put out there: Rafael van der Vaart.
Left-footed, 24 yrs old, good-work ethic, high goalscoring (he even has a better average than Pires!), plays in germany (wengers favorite fishing place for midfielders!), would likely cost about 10 million (i think).
He plays mostly central, but so did Hleb and Rosicky. Infact he would fit Wenger`s profile perfectly.
Van der vaart, Rosicky, Hleb and Walcott would look really good!
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:35 am
Good luck to Freddie, he gave us several good years. I hope he does well for the Hammers. I believe the time was right for him to move on and let Walcott and some of the other youngsters move in.
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Best of luck to Freddie. I will miss him ghosting in to the box and scoring crucial goals. But it is quite obvious I have been missing that for two or three years now, so it is good business to let him go now. Nipuna is right. Freddie did not have the experience that some people are clamoring for when he came here. Yet, he stepped right in and scored crucial goals that helped us win trophies. He was a true winner. I hope the next winger we choose to buy has the winning qualities that Freddie had whether he has experience or not. Thanks for the memories Freddie!
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:23 pm
emon…
Ummm, you can’t be serious… the lack of the Celtics success is very much down to BAD LUCK.
a) LEN BIAS DIED… he would have been the link to a few more title runs
b) REGGIE LEWIS DIED… he was a helluva player
c) The PING-PONG BALL didn’t bounce our way with TIM DUNCAN, or WE would have won a few of the titles the SanAntonio Spurs did…
d) The PING-PONG BALL didn’t bounce our way this year either… so despite having the 2nd worst record, we didn’t get Odon or Durant.
Not sure how the Celtics were to blame for ANY of the above… unless you want to blame them for not knowing Lenny Bias was going to overdose on coke the night after he got drafted?!
The FACT is… the Celtics are about Winning Championships. They aren’t interested in being competitive and playing to be a good team, they are trying to win the title. Everything thing else is failure. Thats why we held on to our great players too long. If Bias didn’t die, we’d probably have had another title or 2 with the big Three (Bird/Parish/McHale) at the end of their careers.
Now, the idea that Freddie’s 2 goals aren’t enough… sure, but neither are Hleb’s 2, or Fabregas’ 4, or Theo’s 1… or Rosicky’s 5…
Ray Parlour didn’t bang in a lot of goals either in his last few years, but he ran his socks off for the team, and provided the experience and tenacity that helped the club win matches.
Its not all about statistics, because if it were, the midfield (other than Gilberto’s 11 goals) was a complete failure on the scoresheet.
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:27 pm
Freddie, we love(d) you because you have (had) red hair…that was a really weird t-shirt, to be honest.
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:27 pm
Some of us called this move. We knew it would come this year; and I am glad it did. It was time for Freddie to go……Don’t get me wrong, I like Freddy and he has served us well but it was his time. I just wish he would be honest as he leaves:
WH are rebuilding adn he is excited about THEIR rebuilding???….Come on please.
WH have a great academy…..Yes but get serious please.
WH barely stayed in the top flight, and only based on heroics of Tevez, who is on his way out. So i don’t see how this is a move up for him.
Just be honest with the fans……
No disrespect to Hammers, though.
I think (hope) that AW will buy another player (winger) with the sale of Freddy and Reyes….we will need it.
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:10 pm
A move good for all parties: West Ham got their man… Arsenal got the cash… Freddie got more first team chances.
Knowing Freddie, I don’t think he’s those who would be happy to just warm the bench (SWP do u got pride?). The reason he left I suspect it was AW can no longer guarantee him first team football.
Doesn’t matter what he says to the press, important thing is he DID always give his ALL when playing for us.
So all the best to Ljungberg, hopefully he will do well for the Hammers, apart when playing against us!
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:11 pm
stag, dont twist facts…in the last league season, ljungberg scored zero goals, zero assists, zero created chances.
hleb and rosicky might take stick for their lack of goals….but they CREATE tons!
moan about something else, please.
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:21 pm
“Now, the idea that Freddie’s 2 goals aren’t enough… sure, but neither are Hleb’s 2, or Fabregas’ 4, or Theo’s 1… or Rosicky’s 5…”
Stag, the only difference is that Hleb, Walcott, Rosicky and Cesc can all improve and Freddie is going the other way. And that is a BIG diferrence.
And you honestly believe that Celtics would have won the NBA in the ‘89, ‘90 or ‘91? They would have beaten Detroit marshaled by Thomas and Dumars? That’s a joke man, get serious.
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Good luck to Freddie on his move. He gave us many great years and played with the passion of a Gunner.
The same passion which we admired him for throughout the years is probably why he is leaving. He ultimately knows he would have few chances to play with the first team on a regular basis and like many an old boxer, he just can’t figure out that his best days are behind him.
This opens up the option of us buying a winger especially with Reyes also leaving and also opens up the field for Walcott to get more playing time. Ultimately, only time will tell if Walcott will seize the moment and become a future Arsenal legend.
I would deign to guess who Arsene will go after at this moment as my only correct assumption this year has been Sagna. However, this should inspire the Paparazzi to provide us with a host of rumors and speculation over the next 2 weeks.
Drenthe, Martins, who the hell knows? Only Arsene and his few trusted scouts know for sure.
On the topic of this upcoming season, I genuinely agree with a former post that Manu is going to struggle this year because of their aging squad. The young newcomers will take time to adjust and Scholes, Giggs and Neville will never repeat their performances of last year.
My fear is that Chelsea is going to dominate with just a few tweaks in their squad and having the stability of their base team back from last year. Position by position they are without weakness and their second team would beat many current Premiership first elevens. Our only hope there is for Drogba to get injured in the ANC.
Liverpool will need time to blend their players in and Spurs will be Spurs, exciting to watch on offense but severely lacking in the midfield and wing defense.
I pick the Gunners to be runner ups this year as long as we can stay relatively healthy. We had way too many “soft injuries” (groin strains, hamstring pulls, etc) last year and hope that the training staff has noticed and will take remedial action. We still play the greatest football in the world and we have a squad which will dominate in the near future.
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:54 pm
I agree that Man U will probably struggle this year…..Aging squad and the other bits…..If Ronaldo gets an injury, then it’s lights out.
I also agree that Chelsea will be the favs to win it. they have made some very smart (and inexpensive) addiitons this year. If they get a good start and stay healthy, it will be near impossible to dismantle them.
July 23rd, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Yes, good luck to Freddie. A significant name in the modern-day history of the club.
This was a transfer that had to happen for Arsenal - he had no significant role to play, and his last two years speak for themselves. I can’t see wanting to keep him for the future - it would serve no purpose other than potentially taking away playing time from others who need it to keep developing. I grew tired of watching him play last season.
I don’t know if this is necessarily a good move for WHU - hard to tell what they’re doing at the moment given the Tevez situation.
I must say that the quotes attributed to Freddie do bother me - I think he knew he was not part of any plan for the future, so I would likely feel the same way, but I hope I would not say the same things.
July 23rd, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Sheed thanks for having my back hoss.
Not to turn this into a Celtics thread but…
Stag-
Len Bias’ and Reggie Lewis’ deaths played a part. Who knows what would have been of Bias, all signs pointed to star, but since he died shortly after being drafted, who knows. Reggie Lewis was a good player, I don’t feel that he was a great player, and had he not died, I don’t think that #35 would be up in rafters.
But neither of those two on their own or colelctively would have won championships with Bird lying on his stomach unable to play with a bad back. Kevin McHale’s feet falling apart ruining any ability for him to play 30+ minutes more than twice a week (at his peak fitness). Robert Parrish, while he never really had a singular, chronic, physical ailment’s of Bird or McHale, was seriously in decline and had been downgraded to a role player. Sheed is right, they would have got beat by the Pistons & Bulls, they would have got beaten by the Cavs, Blazers, Lakers or Rockets.
Back to Arsenal:
The point is that you need star players in their prime if you are going to win championships. That is what it is all about at Arsenal right? Winning championships? If you look at your team and recognize that the majority of players show limited growth & probable decline moving forward, it is management’s job and responsibility to forget about the fans and BLOW IT UP!
With the selling of Henry and Freddie, Arsenal have just finished the reconstruction of their roster. Arsenal have done this without greatly altering their financial income (payouts in CL and consistenly finishing in the top 4).
Arsenal are now in the process of rebuilding their roster. They are gathering pieces, determining who are going to be stars, role players, etc. They are probalby (and hopefully) entering their 3rd and final year in this phase.
Over the next 2-3 transfer periods you should see big dollars being splashed around by Arsenal as they look to find those seasoned players that will complete the roster and allow them to truely challenge for championships without question. They have the funds from the sale of all the invincibles and increased revenue from the Emirates, but it just doesn’t make sense to use those funds right now.
You don’t go out and splash big money around in transfers just to go from 20 points back to 8 points back. You splash the big money around to go from 12 or 8 points back to 1st. They have a good, promising young nucleus of players right now. If those young players prove that they are for real, and position Arsenal to 6-8 points back or better by January or the end of the season; then at that time I’d think that Arsenal would throw that money at the big ticket items available on the market. But right now Arsenal stand 20+ points away from an EPL championship, it doesn’t make sense to throw around the big dollars right now.
They don’t want to put the big screen TV w/surround sound, an indoor pool and gourmet kitchen in a 2 bed room house on the wrong side of town(Spurs); they want to put all that in the luxurious 5 bed room colonial built on the side of a hill over looking the ocean(Arsenal). It seems that they are building that luxurious house on the hill as we speak, and if you ask me, it’s pretty close to completion. When construction is finsihed I think you’ll see Arsene start buying some toys to finish it off!
You could have held on to Freddie for another year or two, but what was that going to give you…experience and leadership? Let’s suppose that he was leading his arse off last year…was it worth 70K a week? No its not worth it, you sell high while you still can. You think that Wenger isn’t psyshed to see that 6+ million in his kitty right now? Arsene will probably throw an extra pat of butter on his croissant tomorrow morning in utter jubilation that someone was stupid enough to take a that kind of a flyer on Freddie at this point in his career. Nothing against Freddie.
Great things lay ahead my friends.
July 23rd, 2007 at 3:16 pm
emonahan, you’re damn eloquent!
i agree with you completely on all accounts.
July 23rd, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Yep, me too.
July 23rd, 2007 at 3:19 pm
I don’t see Arsenal spending big money in the next few transfer periods to bring in seasoned players. Why would/should they?
They have an abundance of youth, and it would appear that AW is looking to build the squad to let it roll as is. Those kids WILL be the experienced players in a season or so, and Arsenal will still be in the top 4 at seasons end in May.
Not too worried about Freddie leaving anyways. I always liked him, but with his best (and even second best) days being behind him, it was time to make way for new blood. If he was concerned about Arsenal though, I reckon he’ll really be complaining after the Irons get relegated to the Championship…
Meanwhile, Pedro Silva’s signing is a big step for the future of the midfield. We’ll have to keep an eye on his progress at Salamanca. Hopefully Angelito gets signed soon — once he makes the senior Argy squad, he’ll be able to procure a work permit so AW can lend him out to an English club and get acclimated to the rain and weather, and by this time next year, Arsenal will have talented depth to go with the talented starters in the middle.
July 23rd, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Wenger is not someone to waste money. He is not going to buy a player if there is no room in the squad. Assuming that Reyes also leaves, there is now one non-locally trained space in the Arsenal European squad.
For the 2007/08 season you have two lists, List A and List B. List B is for kids, the players must be born after 1 January 1986 with two uniterrupted years at the club since their 15th birthday. By my reckoning, this includes Fabregas, Djourou, Song, Bendtner, Mannone, Randall, Lansbury, Gavin Hoytre and Jay Simpson. As these players qualify under List B, you do not need to include them under List A and that frees up space. Other youngsters such as Merida and Barazite have only one year at the club and do not qualify.
List A can be divided into two parts 19 players can come from anywhere. The other six must be locally-trained, either club or association-trained, with no more than three association trained. A locally trained player has spent three years at the club (or in the association) between the ages of 15 and 21. While Fabregas and Djourou also qualify under this rule, there is no need to block spaces available for others. Senderos, Clichy, Hoyte and Ryan Garry are club-trained while Walcott and O’Cearuill are association-trained.
That leaves Lehmann, Diaby, Sagna, Toure, Rosicky, Eduardo, Gallas, Van Persie, Hleb, Denilson, Flamini, Gilberto, Fabianski, Almunia, Adebayor, Eboue, Traore and Nordtveit. 18 players. One space available, two if Nordtveit isn’t going to play this season. Realistically, there is also space for two association-trained players (i.e. brought up in England) to replace Garry and O’Cearuill. That would suggest to me that someone like Curtis Davies may still be a possibility because of his nationality if the price is right (to replace Garry or O’Cearuill). A left-winger from Eastern Europe or South America would make up the 19. Of course, if Reyes stays, he is the 19th player. Wait for the Reyes announcement and then wait for a new signing.
July 23rd, 2007 at 5:21 pm
as emonahan said some comments above:
- i expect wenger to wait a year or two for this crop to really gel - as i am sure they would.
- when it really gels and team is showing signs of real greatness and is just about 6 or 7 points from the top, i then expect him to sign just one or two very super players to solve any outstanding problems. for instance he could splash big-time on one massive central defender that would seal our defense long term.
he has revamped and restructured the team completely and utterly, retained our extremely attractive play, reduced the average age of the team by over 5 years and moved us to a new stadium WITHOUT spending much and without leaving the top-4.
thats the handiwork of a genius!
July 23rd, 2007 at 5:29 pm
Yes, Fred — doing this without leaving the Top 4 is not like this is normally done (e.g., baseball teams that ‘rebuild’ by first carpet bombing and then seeing what the landscape looks like). I am going to really enjoy watching this team gel - AW has the framework of something really special.
July 23rd, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Fred, you are right.
If this team was to win something in the coming season, it would be more enjoyable than normal because of the way the team was built.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Emon…
you have some valid points, but we don’t know what would have become of the C’s if Len Bias lived. We’ll never know, but they would have been in the mix in the East. No doubt about it.
You state that you need STAR players in their prime if you are going to win Championships. I couldn’t agree more. We have no star players. Period.
Not right now. We have some genuinely talented kids, with oodles of potentiall, who might, or might not become stars.
Thierry Henry was a star player in his prime. You surround star players with others, and that builds championship caliber teams. (Bird, w/McHale-Parish… or Henry, Vieira-Pires)…
We have no chance of winning the league this season. And Wenger is cleaning house of anyone remotely close to 30. Kids don’t win trophies. Its just fact.
I would suspect Gilberto will be gone next year along with Gallas.
Then the project becomes keeping the kids and team together… for 2, 3 or 4 years. In today’s footballing world, thats a very difficult task. Good players don’t always have the patience to wait for the “plan” to come to fruition.
I would say the only positive is, if Wenger is building an under 25 squad, then he’ll hopefully be around to see it to its completion.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:22 pm
“We have no star players. Period.”
–I beg to differ. Cesc is as sought after a midfielder as any currently playing in in the EPL. Lehman is still a top flight goalkeeper. Kolo Toure, while not as well known as the John Terry’s and Jamie Carragher’s of the league, is as good a CB as they come. RvP is going to turn a lot of heads this season.
Just because Henry is gone, doesn’t mean that’s it.
“We have no chance of winning the league this season”
A ridiculous statement. EVERY team has a chance, albeit a smaller one for some and a greater one for others. That means even Derby and Wigan have a shot.
I don’t have a problem with you Stags, — other than your negativity, which is the main reason why I personally didn’t miss your posts while you were away.
Can’t you find some other outlet for your negativity? The new season hasn’t even begun and you’re already buried the club… so then why even bother coming on here then?
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:33 pm
To me this is like the mystery of the century and I want to have your opinion/guess. Which scenario is true:
1) What Edleman and Fiszman said in their statements was honest. Despite the debt the board has set aside big chunk of money for AW to spend, but he’s too stingy to buy big names.
2) Contrary to their statements, the board want to pay off the debt asap and thus leaves AW with almost no funds for new players so he has to sell in order to buy. While reducing debt, they’re waiting for a proper offer from anyone including Kronke to sell. Therefore we have AW’s reluctance to sign.
I have question marks over 2 as the published financial docs will show if the board’s been paying towards the principal. Don’t know if any of you read it and would like to explain. Thanks!
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:49 pm
rye…
Its not slanderous to say we don’t have star players.
Its just reality.
Cesc will be a star player. RVP hopefully will be. Kolo is very good, but I wouldn’t call him a star.
Buried the team? Why? Saying we can’t win the league is burying them?
Again, its opinion, and its reality, not negativity.
We could get 3rd of 4th. United, Liverpool, and Chelsea are probably going to finish ahead of us again.
I just call it as I see it. They’ve improved more than we have in my opinion, and they were ahead of us to start with.
We could be very good in a few years. The question will be can we stay in the top 4 this year, and can we keep the talented young players together to grow into the type of team we once were a few years back?
I hope so. It should be an interesting year… with some highs and lows and frustation against lesser teams. I think it will be much like last year. Which isn’t so bad, as long as we remain in the top 4 and the CL.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:59 pm
You don’t need star players to win Championships. Who was the star of the Porto team that won the CL, or when the Pistons won the NBA title?
Even if you need a star player, we have plenty of players who are gonna be stars by the end of the season, such as RvP and Cesc, if they are not already. And don’t forget, we don’t buy stars we create them. Henry wasn’t a star when he came, why the fu*k you point to him. Same with Vieira and Pires. So, be patient and the results will come.
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:42 pm
Thanks, Freddie. Wish you well.
Fred, from post #4, did you forget Eboue?
July 24th, 2007 at 12:29 am
Would Freddie admit that he left because he was not getting enough chances? I guess not. His comments about not signing big name players is quite funny. Does it change the fact that he made near zero contribution in the last two years? On the contrary, if the big names had been signed, he probably would have been out earlier than now.
July 24th, 2007 at 3:53 am
Like I said yesterday, Freddie had to say something and that was easy to say but we all knew the writing was on the wall. And like I said last year, Dennis Bergkamp made Ljunberg look good.
Michael Magnus, I agree essentially with everything you say in post 28. Chelsea will be the best team. I think Malouda was a very good signing. I also think Spurs will be very strong as they’ve made very good but very expensive signings.
I also think a surprise team will be Everton. They have good young talent coming through the ranks and unlike their last time making Europe, they haven’t signed a bunch of foreign big names and have kept their team intact.
But everyone will be looking at what Arsenal will do. I expect them to be very strong.
July 24th, 2007 at 4:08 am
Joshuad, talking abt Dennis made Freddie look good, there is some truth abt it. It’s pretty much the same Pires, Henry, Dennis and Freddie all making each other look good with their intelligent and unselfish play.
On the other hand, I also feel that Andy Gray had killed Freddie’s game! I remember Freddie’s best season 2001/02, his trademark clever run - running across the back 4 then suddenly cut inside when he saw his teammates (often Dennis) was abt to release a pass.
The opposing defence fallen into the same trick time and time again. Then Sky’s Andy Gray, I remember, kept putting a spot on analysis on Freddie’s run, particular during a Bolton game and the final Man U game. I thought back then, now great, the sceret is out, the defenders now know how to stop Freddie!!
Teddy Sheringham once said he had a secret run that gave him an edge for years, not until Andy Gray revealed it again through his analysis, and it killed his move!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:14 am
It looks like we are not signing another winger. This is a statement from Wenger:
“On my front, I am just looking to develop the players we have here.
“Just in central midfield, for example, we have Abou Diaby, Denilson, Cesc Fabregas, Mathieu Flamini and Gilberto. In the wide positions we can play Aleksandr Hleb, Theo Walcott, Tomas Rosicky and EMMANUEL EBOUE. So we have plenty of players.
“All of these players are on their way up. They are not over the hill. Their level is still rising and they are getting better and better.”
As you see, he is planning to use Eboue as a right winger this season, but it is interesting to see who will be a back up for Rosicky at the left, Hleb or Walcott. Time will tell.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:19 am
Andez, I think you’re being a bit naive if you think managers did not know about Freddie’s “secret run”. It wasn’t much of a secret as he did it 50 times a season. The fact is it’s very difficult to pick up a player who runs from deep like that, and it’s very difficult to find a player like Bergkamp to deliver the perfect pass. These were world class players at the top of their game, unstoppable.
Bergkamp faded and so did Freddie, injury hampered both, they played less together, they played with different players, hence it slowly dissolved.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:24 am
I wasnt an Arsenal fan when Freddie signed for us. In fact one of the first few games I saw as an Arsenal fan was an FA CUP final against Chelsea where Freddie beautifully curled in one and Ray Parlour doubled the scoring with a similar strike some time later. I always used to watch Arsenal those days for watching DB10 and his artistry and used to wonder all the time why people rated Freddie so much when there were players many many times better than him.
But as I watched more and more football and reached a stage where I understood what made up a football team I realized that Freddie was special. I realized why there were rumours once of a Freddie - Luis Figo swap deal once. I realized that there were very few people who could torment defences in that unorthodox diagonal running style as Freddie at his peak could. I realized Freddie had bottle…a lot of it…a huge lot of it.
Freddie has been injured far too much recently with his migraine problems and his blood in the foot problems and hasn’t been able to give his best for us lately. But one thing you can never fault him on was for not trying. We had a Kolo thread where we discussed why Kolo was a fan’s player. Freddie is much of the same , even when he knows he’s crocked he will run his heart out. The CL final where he ploughed up front tirelessly running up and down the stade de France ..overworked but still never giving up raised my respect for him hugely.
Didn’t want to see you go Freddie , not for another year atleast so you’d get that testimonial you so richly deserved for being an integral part of Arsenal’s invincibles and winning history. Thanks for the moments and all the very best to you at Westham. Just dont rediscover your form against us…okay ;). All the best again.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:24 am
I’d agree with Stag, that there are not many star players right now (Cesc really is the only one right now, his name being thrown in post season awards tells us this).
However, there is a group of players that have the opportunity to make that jump into star caliber (call them budding stars):
RVP -probably the most likely to make the jump and would most likely be mentioned above with Cesc had he not gotten injured.
Rosicky -had a good year 1 in the EPL. Given the experience and quality of play that he showed in glimpses last year, I don’t think that many would be surprised to see him take it to another level this year.
Adebayor -Looked good in flashes and with more consistant finishing, would have been a top 10 striker last year. It’s not like he doesn’t put himself in a good position for scoring goals, just needs to put more into the back of the net. If that happens, then he makes the leap.
Clichy -Looked solid in the back and got up the flanks well. Looked particularly effective against Ronaldo in the ManU contests, with Ronaldo even switching sides after 25 minutes in one of them. More consistency in tackling and delivering balls into the box when he makes those runs will afford him the jump, though he deffinately softened the blow of Cole leaving.
With Gilberto, Toure, Gallas and Hleb; I think you know what you are going to get from those guys. That’s not calling the 4 of them equals, but I don’t think we are going to see either of the 4 improve or decline next season. However, if one were to make a move upwards, you would think Hleb has the most room for improvement. Toure, Gallas and Gilberto are solid, dependable and rarely liabilities on the field.
Then there are another group of players that could vault themselves into a budding star or star caliber depending upon performance this year (call them the wild card group). Walcott, Diaby, Eboue and Denilson. All 4 could make a leap and to what level is to be determined. I could see Walcott put forward a stellar year this year and be considered top quality next year for instinance. However, there is less of a body of work, be it high quality play or playing time in general, with this group to have as true feeling that these players will make that jump to star status next year. More likely you will place the majority of this group into budding stars next year.
Then there is the Senderos, Djourou, Eduardo, Sagna and Bendtner group. You don’t know what you are going to get from this group. They are capable of anything because either there is no or limited body of work on them or their play is so inconsistant. You could see these players becoming budding stars, wild cards or getting thrown into the trash heap depending upon their performance this year.
I think Arsenal are in a good position this year to finish with more star players that they start the season with. Will that be enough to win the EPL this year? Depends on how many of these players make the leap to star status.
If Adebayor finds the back of net and RvP stays healthy, I think there are 40+ goals right there between the 2. You get 40+ from those 2 and you’ll see Walcott, Rosicky and Cesc have more room to manuver with the ball outside the box, and have an easier time getting away from markers on runs into the box. That will lead to goals for this trio and the best chance of seeing Hleb possibly make a leap up in status.
These are scenarios that could lead to Arsenal challenging for the EPL vs. finishing 20+ points out this year. All this is a wash though if we see old man injury rare his god forsaken head again though.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:28 am
Star Players?
People always want us to sign star players. Is Babel a star player? By the sounds of the crying from some people here when he went to Liverpool, he is. Then the same people say we have no star players. Yet Van Persie is a bigger player for the Netherlands than Babel and is a bigger star for them.
You can’t have it both ways. If Babel, Voronin, Torres, Hargreaves, Nani, Anderson, Tel Ben Haim, Sidwell, Malouda, Pizarro, Bent and the other Spurs unknowns are the star players signed by our rivals (as well as the other big transfers such as Barton, Parker, Bellamy etc.) then Arsenal have about 20 star players.
With the possible exception of Tevez (who has not signed for anyone yet) and to a lesser extent Torres who regulary scores the magnificent total of ten goals a season, nobody has signed star players.
Star players is a myth. Name one star player from the Nottingham Forest team that won two European Cups in a row. Name one star player that played for Arsenal under George Graham. You don’t necessarily need any star players to win. You need mostly good players, some great players (Gilberto, Toure, Fabregas, Van Persie) and a team that adds up to more than the some of its parts. None of them have to be David Beckham or either Ronaldo or Roberto Carlos or Rooney.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:50 am
Irish, the players you mentioned are not star players, and they were all signed this summer, but you forget that the teams already have star players. Chelsea have Cech, Terry, Cashley, Ballack, Lampard, Sheva, Drogba…, Man U have Ferdinand, Ronaldo and Rooney and Liverpool only have Gerrard. So you see, they have star players after all.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:50 am
Very well put, IrishG. There is a tendency to confuse star players with big money signings. And we didn’t spend big money for sure.
Sheed, I still hope for a left sided midfielder. I read Wenger’s comments, but I don’t think it stops him from signing a player he likes. It will most likely be someone we haven’t heard of. But I will be happy with that as long as we have four wide players (excluding Eboue).
July 24th, 2007 at 7:22 am
Star players by top teams:
Chelsea: Terry, Cashley, Lampard, Drogba. The following are NOT stars: Ballack, Shevchenko…they have achieved nothing at Chelsea so far. They are just “big” names.
Man U: Ronaldo, Scholes. The following are NOT stars: Rooney. He was not a decisive factor in them winning the leauge! He is a “big” name hyped by the English media.
Liverpool: Gerrard. The following are NOT stars: Carragher, Torres (he has no PL experience).
July 24th, 2007 at 7:32 am
Fred, you are not right man. If Ballack and Sheva are not stars I don’t know who is then. Rooney is a star in my opinion and that example with Torres(he has no PL experience) is rubbish, although I agree that he is not a star yet. Let’s say we sign Ronaldinho tomorrow, would you say that he is not a star coz he has no PL experience? That’s what I thought :))))
July 24th, 2007 at 7:35 am
Errr. 14 goals and 11 assists in 35 league games - I think that makes Rooney a star player. He is only 21. You think this is the end of Rooney?
Bergkamp’s best total for Arsenal was 16 - and that was in ALL competitions - was he not a star player? Rooney, like Bergkamp is not an out and out striker, he sits behind the front man - he is a scorer and creator, and pest.
Besides, I think Man Utd have more star names that you think - Giggs, Vidic, Ferdinand, Neville. Ok, a couple are getting on but still showing a lot of quality.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:40 am
Sorry Bergkamp’s best was 22 that season, but league goals 16 was his best.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:28 am
@ sheed: what i meant are star players who have “played” or made an impact as stars. Mourinho does NOT even rate Ballack or Sheva.
you might disagree with me as you are a Torres fan but there is nothing Torres has done that van Persie hasnt. And I dont consider Van Persie a star….yet!
@ dannyt: how many of those rooney goals where match deciding goals and not just “add-ons”. Ronaldo was scoring and creating all sorts of “deciding” goals. Ronaldo basically carried that team…with most support from Scholes and Giggs.
And no, Gary Neville is not a star.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:45 am
Ok, let me give my own definition of a “star”:
A player who when removed would cost his team about 15 points or more.
A player who fans “pray to” when the game is being lost, its raining heavily, and you are a man down.
In that regard, Lampard is a star even though he has little technique. Because when playing in the chelsea system, he can score at anytime. And he often scores DECISIVE goals. Goals that pretty much sink the opposition.
Drogba is a star, Terry is a star.
Henry was a star, Pires, Bergkamp, Vieira, Ljungberg in 2002. Fabregas is a star.
Liverpool is more of a work ethic kind of team…and only Gerrard is really indispensable. Carragher cant even get into the England squad. LOL.
Man U: Vidic and Ferdinand are probably stars. Ronaldo is the MAIN star. Without Rooney Man U would still have won the league.
As for Arsenal: Van Persie and Fabregas are pretty much the players fans would “pray” to for magic. Though in my opinion van persie is not yet a star. Next season is his time to step up to that role.
July 24th, 2007 at 9:25 am
What you’re saying is too simplistic. Football is a team game, the “stars” can’t weave their magic without the right blend of players around them - look at Henry for France or Lampard for England or Giggs for Wales - they’ve been average for their countries because the system, the management, the players around them aren’t right.
Goals don’t always win you games, that crucial tackle from a right back that cuts our a cross can win you a game. A right back that does that over and over and over again can win you loads of games. A player who can’t defend like Eboue can lose you loads and loads and loads of games. So, yes Neville is a star - a model of consistency who has won something like 8 or 9 championships and the champions league.
If you’re talking “superstars”, that’s different - Pele, Cruyff, Maradona, Henry, Ronaldinho, there are only a handful of these players in world football currently - or in any year.
The word “star” is very much a generalisation and down to opinion, but there’s more than one way to skin a cat - for me a player who excels in his position, whatever position, consistently for years is a star - more so if it’s a winning team.
July 24th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Fred: “Without Rooney Man U would still have won the league.”
Again, too simplistic 14 goals and 11 assists is crucial, but not only that what about his work ethic, his all round passing, his tackle that led to a pass that led to a goal? I would have him at Arsenal in an instant - definite star, probable superstar.
July 24th, 2007 at 9:40 am
“Without Rooney Man U would still have won the league.”
Have to disagree. The way ManU played the last season, if any of their key players - Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes, Giggs, Ferdinand and Vidic - were missing, they would have been screwed. Just about everything clicked for them. If the same happens to us this season, there is no saying how high we can reach.
July 24th, 2007 at 9:58 am
I hope Wenger is not too serious about this Eboue right-wing option. He can be an extremely penetrative player in small doses but I wouldn’t bet on him replicating that bustling form on any sort of consistent basis. Just like he couldn’t continue playing with any sort of consistency at right back.
In terms of wingers, Hamour Bouazza is a player I mentioned not so long ago. He looks a very good talent and could do well at Arsenal. He’s worth a punt anyway. Wenger can’t seriously be thinking about going into the season with this squad and then complain about fixture congestion again in March. He has the memory of a fish if does so.
July 24th, 2007 at 10:27 am
For Stag #39,
“Henry was a star player in his prime.” I would have to disagree and say that “Henry is a star just past his prime.” I think deep down Wenger knows this and that’s (partly) why he let TH leave….of course other issues are at play as well.
TH will do very well in LaLiga where it isn’t as physical, but his effectiveness in the EPL was clearly waning….at least to me it was.
I still think we will be a better TEAM without TH; I know you disagree and that is perfectly OK…..I like reading all the opinions here.
July 24th, 2007 at 10:43 am
Mazza, I too am very uncomfortable going into the new season with Rosicky, Hleb and Walcott. Eboue can be used as a right winger in bursts, not regularly. I will keep hoping for a signing till the season starts.
July 24th, 2007 at 11:06 am
I’d have to agree that if we did bring in some name players, perhaps Freddie would have been gone a lot sooner.
That is very true.
Its obvious Wenger told him he might not be starting very often, because otherwise he wouldn’t have swapped Arsenal for West Ham.
But I hope he regains his health and form and does well.
I am sure he will get rapturous applause when he returns as a Hammer.
July 24th, 2007 at 11:31 am
I think TH14’s move to spain was the best thing he could have done. He has a much better chance of having 3-5 years more being effective in a better climate. The rain and cold in England is hard on muscles. They tighten up a lot quicker.
As for star players Cesc is the biggest we have at the moment. Although you can’t forget old Mad Jens. He may be past his best at this point but he has major name recognition and is still one of the best GK in the EPL.
This is a bit of a make or break season for AW’s rebuilding project. There are several players who are at the point that they will either take off and become stars or will plateau. Ade, Diaby, Eboue, Clichy, RVP and Hleb all come to mind. Eduardo and Sagna will both need to show thier worth by the end of the season as well. Both being 24.
If half of these players reach their full potential we will be in very good shape. I tend to think that Diaby, Clichy, and RVP will. One of the 2 new guys mentioned above probobly will also if AW’s record is anything to go by.
Then we have the real kids. Traore, Hoyte, Walcott, Denilson, Djorou, Bendtner and the like. How many other teams have such promising reserve players?
This team is being built for the long haul. Built to be competative for the next decade not just the next 3 years.
July 24th, 2007 at 11:53 am
What makes a star in the EPL? Well, if FC Barcelona, Real Madrid, or Inter Milan are CONSTANTLY trying to buy you - you just might be a star!
All joking aside, and since I have already talked about Freddy, here’s my opinion.
Cesc is without a doubt a star. Every match on TV, he spoke of as in the running as the best CM in the league, and top 5 in the world. I believe this.
It’s a rare thing to consider a DM a star, but I think Toure is there. He is arguably rated top 3 or 5 in the league and sets the tone for our squad. Being as young as he is, he could be as important to us as Terry is to his squad.
RvP is just not there yet, but this year could see him do very well. Walcott is like Rooney when he was coming up, entirely hyped by the English media, but will be solid by the time he is in his twenties. The rest of the squad? Solid players.
The point is this: have you ever watched an all-star game in any sport? So many big names, and not that good of play on the field or court.
Big names, whether legitimate stars or not, seem to not be able to gel as a unit. They get in each other’s way - they have a hard time adapting to the idea of being role players. You DO NOT need 11 stars on the field, as the pessimists among us seem to suggest. You need a team, and a few stars to rise above to give the team the belief necessary to overcome the toughest opposition (in environments like OT, SB, and Anfield) and to kill off the pesky defensive minded (seriously how can their fans be cool w/ 5-4-1 or even 6-3-1 configurations? I hate negative football) with a ruthless attitude.
Do I realistically think we can win the league with the players we have to date? Impossible? No. Improbable? Yes. Will we fall out of the top 4? Impossible? No. Improbable? Very. I think we finish 4th again. I think we win the Carling Cup, make a great run (winning it would be so wonderful) in the FA Cup, and I think we make the final 8 in the CL.
And above all, we show the world how beautiful this game can be. Americans don’t need Beckham, they should just watch teams like us if they want to fall in love with football. Arsenal football is why I became a fan, a Gunner for life.
July 24th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
“A player who when removed would cost his team about 15 points or more” - that’s a definition for star player in Fred’s view.
Well, Ballack is not a star for you, but look at Bayern and you will see how much they missed him the last season.
Oh, and who the f*ck is Mourinho to rate Ballack and Sheva, he doesn’t rate half of his squad, but they are still very good players. He doesn’t rate SWP and Wenger rates/rated him very highly, so does that mean that Wenger sucks and Mourinho is a God? C’mon man get real.
And if you are talking about world-class player that’s a different story, but there are a few in today’s world, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Henry, C. Ronaldo… I can’t think of more, maybe Gerrard and Eto’o and that’s it.
July 24th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
And Fred, read what I wrote. I didn’t say that Torres is a star, I said he is not a star yet. As for RvP, I said that he will be a star by the end of the season, so I really don’t know why are you comparing those two, I have pretty much similar opinion for both of them.
July 24th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
what about star versus superstar in definition? That’s a debate worth having.
July 24th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
I believe STAR is only a term created by the media. In short, STAR = QUALITY + ATTENTION.
Not every QAULITY player is a star, depends on where he plays his football.
For instance, Rio Ferdinand Vs Kolo Toure, who’s a BETTER defender? Even Kolo is not better, the two are very close in terms of QUALITY. But in England, Rio is twice a STAR than Kolo. Yet it doesn’t mean he’s twice better a PLAYER does he?
So i think when u buy a STAR, the fee you paid apart from the player’s QUALITY, you also paid for the HYPE.
For instance, Darren Bent, as a player, he probably worths around 1 mil GBP. Yet because of the massive media attention in England, when Spurs bought him for 16 mil, 15 mil they spent on HYPE.
Say, IF Darren Bent is not an English player, and he’s playing in a club from Croatia, Spurs probably would be able to get him for 1 mil.
Likewise, when we bought van Persie, he’s not playing in a league with a massive media spotlight. So we were lucky to get him for 2 mil.
On the other hand, imagine he was a young talent playing for Charlton the likes, guess how much it would cost for any club to buy him?
July 24th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Yes Andez, I agree with you, but don’t forget that those star/hyped players sell more shirts than the quality players like Kolo. So that’s the reason why they pay for them so much, they will get their money back with that, at least 2/3.
July 24th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
sheed: why are u getting angry?
am just talking about my general definition of a star in the local context.
ballack and sheva are not stars in the english football local context. i rate sheva very much for his past….but i fail to see why ballack is so hyped up. the only thing the guy has ever won is german league and cup….and english league cup.
i`ve lived in germany the last year - and bayerns problems have absolutely nothing to do with ballack. i have no time to even start to explain their woes.
as you know, i`ve never rated torres. we will see what he does this season.
July 24th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
@danny, the question is how many of his goals are really decisive? very few.
i still maintain that without ronaldo, Man U wont have won the league last year.
put that same responsibility on rooney`s shoulders and he will act like a bull in a china shop and will inevitably be red-carded on several occasions.
and ofcourse, i will have rooney at arsenal! afterall he is just 21 and is much better than adebayor!
July 24th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
The difference between stars and superstars? When the majority of people think a player is a star, that player becomes a superstar. It’s all based on opinion, but opinion is an illusion generator and doesn’t count for much.
For example 90% of the planet believes in a God, but the opinion of the vast majority doesn’t mean this is necessarily the case - as there’s no proof. And if a God was to be proved, only a minority would be right, because all the other believers would be wrong.
So it doesn’t matter how many people think someone is a star or a superstar, as it’s entirely down to subjective opinion - and there can never be a right answer, you can only discuss, argue about it.
July 24th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
PS. Judging by his hairstyle we have a new Freddie Ljungberg:
http://www.arsenal.com/article.asp?thisNav=news&article=478439&cpid=703&title=Nordtveit+-+It%27s+up+to+me+to+be+a+success+here
July 24th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
This star thing has really started a debate. Very interesting points of view.
I like the way Andez puts it. Rio is a star, Kolo is not, but Kolo is arguably the better player. Another example is Scholes versus Beckham. Beckham was the star but Ferguson sold him and kept Scholes.
Ferguson has sold or retired a lot of stars in his time - Veron, the later Keane, Beckham, Sharpe (remember him, lots of press), Van Nistleroy, Stam (after his book) and arguably Cantona as well. As soon as Rooney, Rio or Ronaldo get too big in their boots for him, they will be sold as well. Those that tend to stay at Utd for long periods are not always the stars - Bruce, Pallister, Irwin, Scholes, the early Keane, Neville etc.
We don’t need stars, we need some great players and lots of good players. We need a team.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
Simple as this…
Star equals brand recognition. Household name. Nothing else.
Talent is less important in star status than the status of the name and the face that goes with it…
Yes, Beckham is talented, but you think he gets the recognition he does if he looks like Martin Keown? Doubt it.
There are very few big name stars in the sporting world who are not handsome. Yes, there are exceptions, but the majority of the time looks and ego have as much to do with it as anything.
July 24th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Rye, not so sure thats always true.
Larry Bird.(NBA), Peyton Manning.(NFL), Michael Johnson (Track & Field), Ronaldinho, Rooney, Tevez (Soccer)… to name a few off the top.
There are definitely exceptions.
But if you are the best (or among the best)… you can still acheive star status.
(celebrity if you will)
July 24th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
Right, it isn’t always the case… Mark Messier and Terry Bradshaw can be added to that list as well.
But, like I said, often times, stardom is accompanied by looks, and a really good shoe contract doesn’t hurt either (Manning, Ronaldinho and Johnson all fit into that category).
Incidentally, while Tevez is a big time player, and a star in South America, to your casual fan outside of that continent — and I mean casual in the literal sense of the word, not the terrace toughs in the designer clobber — wouldn’t likely know who he is, but at the same time probably knows who Wayne Rooney is.
The point I was making is that part of stardom, the part that separates the great players without widespread name recognition from those that do have it, owe a lot to publicity… and often times a pretty face to go with the fancy footwork is enough to push some over others of equal (or perhaps even greater) talent.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:27 am
Okay… this is what happens when you stay up way too late looking at crap.
Click on this for a laugh… from the Ligue 1 club St.Etienne
http://www.madeinsport.com/photos/photo%20toaster_PE4.jpg
This is what we need at the Arsenal Online shop — breakfast will never be the same again. B-)
July 25th, 2007 at 1:30 am
Come on, Andez. Bent is definitely worth more than one million pounds. I was talking him up big time last summer before he signed his new contract. With Curbishley leaving at the end of the 05/06 season and with only one year remaining on his contract, I was thinking we could get a “good English player” him for cheap (about one million pounds) but it would only happen under those circumstances.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:50 am
It goes to show how smart Steve McClaren is that he would call up Alan Smith ahead of Darren Bent in England’s last couple international matches. Why, because Alan Smith is a bigger “star” that plays with a bigger team? Who in their right mind would, at the end of last season, rate Smith higher than Bent?
Nuts!
I guess that goes to the previous thread where you guys were going on about David Dein. Dein was also the guy that gave the FA an unnecessary deadline to appoint a new England manager before the World Cup. Now England is stuck with Steve McClaren.
July 25th, 2007 at 3:22 am
Sheed, but the shirt selling can’t make as much a difference. Otherwise clubs would all spend 10+ mil on big name players if they can get the money back from shirt selling.
With probably the only exception of David Beckham.
Joshuad,
If Bent not worths 1 mil, maybe 2 mil…. anyway, that’s not the main point of what I tried to say.
besides, would u agree if he’s a foreign player playing in a smaller league, with quality like him, you could get him for 1 or 2 mil?
btw, the bargain player u r talking about, how about going back to Darren Bent’s old club and nick a guy who may turn out just be as good as him, perhaps even better, but definitely cheaper now - Danny Haynes?
July 25th, 2007 at 3:35 am
“Another example is Scholes versus Beckham. Beckham was the star but Ferguson sold him and kept Scholes. ”
Yup IrishG, Scholes is a great example. For the past a decade or so, United got load of stars. When mentioned abt the key players of United’s success, one can easily come out with the names of Keane, Cantona, Schmeichel, Rooney, Beckham, Ronaldo….
but if you ask Alex Ferguson who’s been his most important players, I bet Paul Scholes would be right up there on his list. Those managers know the stuffs.
In fact, i read Vieira and Pires’ book, they both singleout Paul Scholes as the best English players they played against. Henry said the same lately and voted him as the Player of the Year last season.
but because Scholes is well known for his shyness in front of the spotlight, the guy rarely even did interview, so he didn’t get as much as attention as his fellow star teammates.
At his prime, i’d really love to have Scholes on our side, he’s probably one of the most intelligent English players i ever seen. The way he made his run, and the timing of his pass. Though he never won any individual award, certainly never made it to World Player of the Year second place like Lampard did, i rate him twice a player than Lampard at his prime.
the best thing abt Scholes is - though he clearly got talent, he’s also a tough, aggressive player always give 100% for his team.
BTW, Joshuad,
It’s also David Dein who urged England to hire a foreign coach (Sven). England fans never took Sven to heart, but his record as England manager is second to none since….. don’t know who, perhaps Bobby Robson.
The decision to hire back an England manager i don’t think it’s from Dein right? The press urged it, said England needed a coach with more PASSION. The fans asked for it too.
Now they got their wish. Besides, if not McClaren, who else? Pearce? Big Sam?
I afraid the “manager” of England is not where England’s problem lies…
July 25th, 2007 at 4:42 am
Andez, the point about Bent was not an argument but just to say that the guy is worth more than one million pounds. To say that fifteen of the 16 million spent on Bent was on the hype is an exaggeration.
As for David Dein, I don’t think he ever insisted an Englishman be the England manager. My point was he did insist that Sven’s replacement be identified before the World Cup began. There was absolutely no reason for that time constraint to be imposed. While I agree England’s main problems are not with the manager, the foolish timeline to name a successor didn’t help make things better for English football either.
For the record, I have nothing against David Dein, but it goes to show that he’s not infallible.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:30 am
Glad to see the back of him, has not done anything since the tail end of 2002.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:12 am
kinda glad we not involved in that ridiculous tevez saga. imagine wenger arguing it out with that kia character and west ham…lol.
July 25th, 2007 at 8:14 am
ANR says Kia offered Tevez to Arsenal but Wenger didn’t want to deal with privately owned players. I had mentioned the latter part long time back, saying that Wenger had publicly expressed his opposition to such deals. But when the Premier League ruled in West Ham’s favour, my hopes were raised, simply because Tevez is such a nice player to have. Now the whole thing is such a mess.
July 25th, 2007 at 9:04 am
I was sorry to see Freddie go, but it made sense. He was my favorite player since his punk days, but he’d lost his pace, Dennis, gotten mouthy lately and seemed to lose his focus on the team. When he went down with injury, other players stepped in. When he was healthy again, Wenger held on to his replacements so they could get a decent run. Freddie was hurt, and complained. Publicly.
Now that he’s shuffled off to West Ham, he’s hurt again and is still complaining, throwing the team under the bus at his first opportunity. True colors and just another example of our vets who didn’t really step up when Wenger was counting on them, and yet acted like spoiled children when they got replaced. Wenger’s been let down, so I don’t blame him for sticking to players who put the team before themselves while the club is paying their wages. Finally, the egos have left the building. Experience can be good, and we’re finding, detreimental as well. And we’ve got quite a few youngsters with more big game experience than most of the vets in the league.
And I don’t see Walcott taking Freddie’s place as much as Eboue. Walcott needs to be allowed to be a striker, and Eboue, without the burden of defending, should make great use of those extra few yards forward as he was already playing like a right-sided midfielder last season at right back. He also isn’t afraid of giving us width, and he’s finding his crossing feet as well.
Freddie was only going to make things worse the longer he stayed. I’ve great respect for the man, but like I said, we’ve finally moved on all the buzzkillers in the dressing room.
July 25th, 2007 at 9:20 am
Scotty, Gallas is still around.
July 25th, 2007 at 9:58 am
Heh, true. I wonder for how much longer, though.
July 25th, 2007 at 10:02 am
I am hopeful we will sign a winger before the close of the transfer deadline; with Freddie gone and Reyes going, we will be light in depth; we will need someone to come in………Oh who can it be? It is fun to speculate….
3 weeks is a long time in football…..
July 25th, 2007 at 10:17 am
i know there are still doubters about eboue, but Scotty I m with u, I think Eboue will make a great winger now with less burden to defend, that’s IF, he’s really going to play as a wide player by AW.
Rosicky, Walcott and Hleb all got skills. But if you want a player to take on the opposing defender one-on-one, I would want Eboue to do it. Not that Rosicky, Walcott, Hleb can’t. But because of their size, they have their limit.
Eboue, on the other hand, is powerfully built, and in basketball-term, got a great FIRST STEP. In other words - great acceleration when dribbling the ball past a defender.
last season, from time to time, when we were trailing late in a game, it’s Eboue who looked the most dangerous threat, in terms of creating chances by driving down the right flank.
And he has another big + : his game is more DIRECT than Hleb, Rosicky, Walcott. When he drives down the right flank, he either cross the ball or shoot on sight.
July 25th, 2007 at 10:51 am
Yep, Eboue can look great but as Joshaud said, he has one trick where he leans left and pushes the ball out to the right and wrong foots the defender. It won’t take long for players to wise up to that. Another problem is that he has two gears; forward and reverse. To play on the right side for any length of time you need to be able to tread water alot of the time, especially with our style. He’s great last 25 minute option though.
As for Ljungberg, he looked out of place in this Arsenal team. Like a player from another era, who sadly became an awkward spoke near the end.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:12 am
Don’t forget, the transfer window hasn’t closed yet… and Mark Randall is still a possibility. I expect to see more of him in today’s friendly against Salzburg.
Speaking of which, this match ought to give us a better idea of what Arsenal has than the contest with Genclerbirligi did. Salzburg is a much better squad.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:58 am
The games so far have been a nice warm up for the squad.I’m looking to see how they play this weekend. Pretty good competition coming to the Emirates. How the lads play in this tournament should give us an idea as how they play against some quality. only a handful of weeks until the season opens.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
Very strong squad, Gallas, Lehmann, Traore, Rosicky, Denilson, Hleb, Diaby, Van Persie, Toure, Eboue, Da Silva. Stadium is full. Look forward to watching this.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
Mazza, one trick or not, last season was not Eboue’s FIRST season, if the defenders had found a way to stop that trick, they would have be able to stop it last season wouldn’t they?
Come to think of it, Thierry Henry had plenty of tricks, but he also like to use ONE particular trick when comes to scoring - cutting from the left, before side-footed the ball into the far top corner. Those defenders had played against him for years, they KNEW he’s gonna do that everytime when he cut inside, yet somehow they still couldn’t stop him.
Like I say, Eboue not just got trick, he got the POWER and great acceleration. U can try to stop the trick, but it’d be very difficult for a defender to stop a quick and powerful player coming at u.
Reyes probably got more tricks than Eboue when comes to dribbling, but because of his size it didn’t really get him anywhere.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
Thoughts so far v. Red Bull
Eduardo has a quick trigger… man, if he is on target, look out.
Rosicky is looking good so far today…
Hleb needs to be more consistently aggressive….