It is very easy to criticize Philippe Senderos when he gets caught in an unfavorable position, a la 1-on-1 with Kanu or 1-on-1 with Didier Drogba. Most Arsenal fans forget the value of a holding midfielder that knows how to fall back and tackle when the opposition is breaking/charging offensively against you. In the Portsmouth game, Senderos played well and Kanu sold his act to the referee. The referee’s call was harsh and in most games, that red card call would have never been made. Anyway, Senderos had to track back because a certain defender allowed Kanu to be onside. Also, most importantly, where was the defensive midfielder?We need to be realistic: Tony Adams at his best would not have been able to handle the size, pace and power of a Drogba. I believe that Martin Keown, faced with a 1-on-1 situation with Drogba, would be forced into an illegal challenge or more than likely be beaten.
What we fail to see: since the beginning of the Wenger era the Arsenal back line were able/allowed to play high up in order to spring an offside trap, based on the fact that Adams and Keown had an easier time at their positions with Patrick Vieira switching to a defensive midfielder when Arsenal were pressed with a counter attack by the opposition. Vieira did two things, he pressed the attack from Arsenal’s midfield going forward, and was the first to fall back when the opposition had the ball. Vieira was a great tackler and eased the load on the centerbacks because he understood positioning.
This past Saturday, Gilberto played as a central defender and he was terrible. It reminded me of Roy Keane trying to play central back for Manchester United. When people speak of how great previous central backs were for Arsenal, they need to consider who was in the central midfield. Was it the likes of Vieira? Senderos will be successful if he has a good defensive midfielder in front of him.
Senderos is very good. There are only a handful of centerbacks that are excellent and better than Senderos (Rio, Terry, Vidic, Toure). Carragher, Carvallo, Ledley King, Woodgate, and Wes Brown are only successful with a spoiler or defensive midfielder in front of them. Everybody rated William Gallas highly before he came to Arsenal; however, Gallas has looked bad too. Gallas has been very spotty and still too short for that position. Remember in the Tottenham game, the Adebayor header to tie Tottenham was not defended because everybody on the pitch was shorter than Adebeyor. People blame Robinson, but in all fairness Robinson did not have the height to reach the ball.
In terms of defense, the relationship between the goalie and central back must be strong but it is most important for the relationship between the central back and defensive midfielder to be even stronger. Central defenders are called into a sweeper role when the central midfield is clumsy and loses the ball in a vulnerable position. To properly evaluate the centerback, we need to understand the midfielders’ part.
Don’t be quick to write off Senderos.
66 Responses to “In Praise of Philippe Senderos”
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September 21st, 2007 at 5:40 am
Agree
September 21st, 2007 at 7:29 am
Stop making excuses for him, he’s slow, his concentration is awful, his positional sense is terrible, and he constantly commits rash tackles and gives away free kicks in dangerous positions.. and from what I can see - he never learns. What do you want to do, build a brick wall around him??
No one has “been quick to write off Senderos”, 3 years of garbage performances have done that.
He’ll need to perform exceptionally well for at least 10 games in a row before I start to think he is anything other than a complete donkey. I’d like him to suddenly grow up, but I can’t see it - not only is he defensively limited, but he just can’t hack the pressure.
September 21st, 2007 at 7:50 am
I think Senderos as CB and Gilberto as DM is better than Gilberto as CB and Flamini/Denilson as DM.
September 21st, 2007 at 8:02 am
I think he is a decent player - reads the game well, very good in the air, etc… but he just sometimes makes 1 or 2 silly mistakes which can be very costly.
I remember at the start of his arsenal career, he made the same mistakes as he does now, but never seemed to be punished…. Now it is the opposite, every mistake he makes he seems to result in conceding a goal or getting a red card… If he can cut that out those silly mistakes, then he will be a very good CH.
And Danny, you say 3 years of garbage but this is just not true, he was very good in the CL run, and he kept Sol out of the team at the end of the 04-05 season (after the invincibles), when we fought back well to claim 2nd place.
I agree tho that since then, he hasn’t developed as well as you might expect. But definitely happy having him as 3rd choice CB.
He needs to be more self-confident too - if he had a bit more ‘Bendtner’ in him I think he would be fine….
September 21st, 2007 at 8:03 am
I still think 3 years of garbage is somewhat stretching the point - he was good in 05-06 season. Wenger intended to start with Senderos in the 06-07 season, Gallas was completely last minute and pretty much unplanned. Can he hack the pressure? Clean sheets may not always tell the whole story, Sevilla game is a case in point, but the CL campaign was quite pressurised I’d say.
Last season his performances went backwards, perhaps a lack of playing time/stop start with injuries contributed. Sol Campbell used to take 8-10 games to stop looking like bambi on ice and perhaps Senderos needs the same sort of run of games.
Season 2004 - 05 Competition Apps Gls
League 12+1 0
Europe 1 0
FA Cup 6 0
League Cup 3 0
Com. Shield 0 0
Total 22+1 0
Season 2005 - 06 Competition Apps Gls
League 19+1 2
Europe 7+1 0
FA Cup 2 0
League Cup 5 0
Com. Shield 1 0
Total 34+2 2
Season 2006 - 07 Competition Apps Gls
League 9+5 0
Europe 2 0
FA Cup 4 0
League Cup 5 0
Com. Shield 0 0
Total 20+5 0
September 21st, 2007 at 8:06 am
All I have to say is Cygan. Senderos is not the best CB by any strech of imagination. But those games when Cygan was in about drove me crazy. It always could be worse!
September 21st, 2007 at 8:42 am
The logic used to defend Senderos is a bit mind numbing. So far we have, “He is only as good as the defensive midfielder in front of him”. “He makes mistakes, but so does everybody. His just seem to get punished more”. “His stats look decent but they can be misleading and seem to be going backwords”. And “At least he is better than Cygan”. (I realize the last one is a bit tongue and cheek)
We would all love for him to succeed at some point. Perhaps a few good games will boost his confidence and get him on a roll. And certainly, he will get the chance to prove himself this season. I personally don’t see him being a success now or ever. He just doesn’t have the quality to play in a side that is brimming with quality at almost every position. He always looks out of place. The most frustrating part about all of this is that is has been going on for 3 seasons. And everyone knows that Gallas is getting a bit fragile and Toure will be gone for a month. I don’t expect this team to take home any silverware this year. I have said that if the team showed growth this year it would be satisfactory. But if we are contending for silverware this year and Senderos is the reason we don’t get any, then shame on AW. I would expect him to see this coming. I hope he buys in January.
(I think I have made my peace about Senderos)
September 21st, 2007 at 9:15 am
Is John Terry only as good as Essien? Is Toure only as good as Flamini or Gilberto? I don’t think so.
A player is responsible for his own position - if he gets exposed it’s how he deals with it that matters. Senderos job is to defend, not stand there all game doing nothing while defensive midfielders cover for him.
Senderos has only ever been any good when the team played ultra-defensive 4-5-1 in the Champions League - but that was down to circumstance, and Arsenal haven’t played that style before or since, therefore whilst you could say he had a good spell as it was in a system that is highly unlikely to ever be employed again.
I don’t want to bash him, I wish he was great - but he’s not. There no point feeling sorry for him or saying “he tries his best” or “other players make him look bad” - just face facts, so far he’s been extremely poor - at his worst, utterly clueless under stress. At this level you can’t accomodate a player of such mental weakness? He will probably be ok at home to Derby County, but when a big game comes around you’re just asking for trouble. It’s best if he just not there, why wait and hope for a miracle? If that was your mindset with every player we’d be bottom.
September 21st, 2007 at 9:25 am
..or perhaps the logic is that 05-06 season he was good enough for Wenger to consider him the first choice for the following season.
Last season he was not very good, but that may very well be down to a lack of games played/injury interuppted season.
This season he has played 2 league games (one as sub) and 2 games in the CL and has already been written off.
Maybe he just needs games.
It’s stretching it a bit, but only about as much as saying Senderos has been garbage for 3 season - Tony Adams was being labelled a donkey after 110 first team games and that was in a fairly defensive team.
September 21st, 2007 at 9:28 am
Danny, he is good for a 3rd choice CB, maybe 4th when Djourou is back from his loan spell at Birmingham. Only Chelsea have a better 3rd choice CB, the other teams have pretty much average players. So I’m glad we have him in the squad.
September 21st, 2007 at 9:52 am
Where do people get this nonsense that Arsenal were trying to play offside against Portsmouth for the sending off and blame the whole incident on Kolo Toure? Senderos was out of position and on the wrong side of Kanu. It was his fault and no one elses. We have to stop molly-cuddling Senderos and treating him like he’s some special needs person who is given allowances above everyone else. Arsenal’s success can’t be compromised for charity cases.
Like Danny said, if he plays well for ten games in a row then maybe we can re-assess but at that moment that looks unlikely because he will either get sent off or make a complete arse of a mistake and Wenger will be left with no option but to drop him. In a few months time Wenger’s memory will be complely wiped clear and Senderos will get a few games and the cycle starts again like it has for the last three years.
September 21st, 2007 at 9:58 am
I read that Senderos has passed his exams fit for tomorrow’s game, so it looks like he will play in defense with Gilberto in midfield. There won’t be any Diarra or Flamini in this match… at least not in the first eleven
September 21st, 2007 at 10:01 am
oh nooooo! not another senderos discussion!
senderos actually has a decent skill set and is not really that slow, his problem is all mental, he cant handle any sort of pressure - he panics very easily. and i dont know how one can solve that type of problem.
lets just hope he can hold it in till janaury.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:05 am
How about a post to talk about Adebayor? Someone start a thread on him, because he is defintely worth talking about. His running, tricks and ability to win the ball in the air are definitely paying big dividends for Arsenal now. He has definitely added a dimension to the team since he returned from his early season groin injury. And he absolutely ran Sevilla into the ground.
Can you imagine what he could be if he can learn to shoot? And that cracker against Spurs was Drogba-esque. Lets start a thread about him, because I dont see how Bendtner gets a game (and why Dudu has been on the bench) with him in this form.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:24 am
I hope diarrhoea, or whatever his name is, starts tomorrow - somehow. Still not convinced by Flamini in central midfield - why f*ck about, just get the kid in there before he joins yet another London club. Apparently he’s more creative - we don’t need Gilberto protecting the back four at home to Derby - they will hardly get in our half anyway.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:55 am
Off Topic: With Mourinho gone, the only thing I regret is not beating Chelsea when he was in charge. Benitez did it and Fergie did it, but Arsene could not.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Senderos again.
I will defend him but I still wouldn’t title an article “in praise of Senderos”. If the question is whether he is the best we have at the moment then the answer is no. If the question is can he still make it, then the answer I believe is yes. But he needs a run of games to build up his confidence. When he first came into the team I was impressed by the fact that his mistakes didn’t panic him. They were more isolated and they didn’t affect his game. More recently, his mistakes are more concentrated. If he makes one, then another comes within minutes of seconds.
I believe it is a mental confidence issue. He needs games to gain confidence but his lack of confidence means he is making mistakes when he plays. A vicious circle. His best chance to get out of it is to play well for the next few games before Gallas comes back.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Return to Sendy.
Ah, the conundrum of Senderos - liability or great talent still waiting bloom?
All I really know is that whenever he’s in the team, I feel a twinge of nerves. But then I also felt that about Keown in his last two years. (Remember when Keown got sent off at Middlesborough in the Carling Cup semi-final defeat for a Senderos-esque ‘clumsy’ tackle?)
Half of the problem has to be psychological. And the boo-boys don’t help. He can’t help feel the Kevin Campbell vibes in the crowd whenever he plays. Has anyone seen him in action for the Swiss national team? I remember the blood-spurting headed goal, which shows he can be fearless. Is he a different player for them?
September 21st, 2007 at 3:43 pm
No, he is just as crap for the national team.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Prediction from Goal.com.
Arsenal can do no wrong at the moment it seems! From all the talk in the summer of being a club in crisis and the ones most likely to drop out of the top four following the departure of Thierry Henry, Wenger has moulded another great team who have started the season on fire. It is very early days and most people expect Arsenal to have a sticky patch at some point during the season, yet for the moment you can’t see how a team like Derby could match the ability and speed of passing that Arsenal possess. Arsenal to win comfortably.
Arsenal 4 Derby 0
This sort of preview really annoys me. Arsenal are without Hleb and Rosicky but yet that seems too specific for this author who believes Derby will not be able to live with Arsenal’s passing. Without those two players I fancy Derby will cope with our football extremely comfortably as we will be the defination of dsyfunctional if people like Walcott play. This will definately be the case if it stays nil-nil. If we get a goal we could play with confidence and then someone like Diaby might start playing with some direction.
Cliche’, but we need the early goal without the game breakers. Cesc can’t do it by himself late on when Derby grow in confidence and resolution.
September 21st, 2007 at 4:36 pm
@irishgunner: The title of the article came from the admin who posted it (me) and not the author. The title was originally something like “We need to support Senderos” or something like that; I thought the new headline agreed with the tone of the article.
Senderos makes me nervous at times, but I applaud him in general. Come on - how many teams can be completely confident when their 3rd/4th choice has to start? Phil seems like an agreeable guy, and he seems to actively try to do things to get better - he came into this season in much better shape than he had in the past, for example. Seems to have fire, size, and toughness. Cygan was never nicknamed “French Tone,” so someone somewhere seems to think there’s big potential in Senderos. He gets thrown into the fire and either sinks or swims, it’s pretty simple. You can respond like Gael Clichy, or you can respond like Matthew Upson - guess we’ll find out eventually.
September 21st, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Matthew Upson was 3 times better than Senderos at the same age, in fact he didn’t do a lot wrong at Arsenal. I’d pick him above Senderos in the blink of an eye both then and tomorrow.
Where does this myth come from that because a defender is 3rd of 4th choice he has to be crap? Are Alex and Ben Haim crap? Is Hypia crap? Is Wes Brown or Silvestre crap? In fact most teams in the Premiership, and indeed Europe, have very decent 3rd choice centre-backs - all better than Senderos.
September 21st, 2007 at 5:30 pm
@dannyt Wes Brown and Silvestre are crap. Upson, don’t make me laugh. When has he had an injury free excellent run for any team? Alex, the jury is out on coping with premiership football and Carvallho was the weakest of Mourinho’s signings. In any event Chelsea are different to anyone else. Cole and Bridge at left-back but no right-back to speak about is a sign of that
@dwinkler, you missed my point. I am not criticising Senderos. I still believe in him but I would not praise him as he has not repaid mine (and others) faith. I still believe he can make it but circumstances may not allow it. This Arsenal team is growing up very fast. Those that cannot grow fast enough - possibly Walcott and Diaby as well as Senderos - will be left behind while those that can - Flamini, Clichy and Adebayor - will seize their chance. That is one of the reasons that makes watching this team so good and so interesting.
I have said it before but it is clear to me that the collection of young players gathered by Wenger is so good that those that succeed will be the best in Europe. Those that don’t succeed won’t be too bad either even if it is for some other team.
September 21st, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Off Topic:
I saw the game Barca Vs Lyon. I wonder how much Titi really enjoy playing there. Apart from Ronaldinho occassionally, the rest of their star attack frontline rarely pass the ball to him. It’s a far cry from the days every Arsenal players seemed to look towards Henry when they passed.
The goal Henry scored was a tap in. And it was off a deflection from a teammate’s strike.
September 21st, 2007 at 5:37 pm
Mazza,
Apart from Goal.com, who on this site is predicting a 4-0 victory without Rosicky and Hleb?
It is impossible to know how this game will go without seeing the team that Wenger puts out and the risks he wants to take. Does he want to see how Walcott, Da Silva, Denilson, Diaby etc. do while leaving fabregas and Van Persie on the bench? I don’t think he will do that but it is possible that his gambles (if any) may come off and we may win well. That is football.
September 21st, 2007 at 5:40 pm
That is absolute crap! The title should have been “In Pity Of Senderos”. This thread takes such a wimpy pshchological approach by blaming everyone from the keeper, to the fans, to Kolo Toure, to defensive midfield for all of Senderos’ problems except for him. It even goes as far as to insinuate that only four EPL CB’s could do a better job than Senderos.
I generally don’t criticize what others write but this is utter bullshit. DannyT in post #8 got it spot-on. It’s not the responsibility of other players to cover for his screw ups so that he can have a football career at Arsenal. This very attitude typifies our society today to blame their problems on everyone else and not take responsibility for their own actions or failed actions. Shameful.
September 21st, 2007 at 5:44 pm
Well I was only referring to Goal’s preview, not anybody on this site. It was a point made to reinforce Rick’s view about the ignorance of writers and pundits.
Calvalho was the weakest of Mourinho’s signings? That has to be one of the most absurd statments I’ve read in a while. He was one of their best players last season.
September 21st, 2007 at 5:52 pm
And for the record, playing a high line doesn’t mean playing an offsides trap. High lines allow a team to compress the play in the opposition half. Also if an attacking player can get behind our high line then he feels inclined to attack and isolates himself from the rest of his team. What’s good for us is that only a select few players in the world are fast and strong enough with the ball to out pace our very fast defenders and still have the composure and quality to beat our keeper.
Senderos only looked strong when we played a 4-5-1. What’s unfortunate for Senderos is that we don’t typically play a 4-5-1 and you have to have pace to play in our back line. The law of averages is strongly against him.
September 21st, 2007 at 6:00 pm
I don’t rate Carvallho, Ok there are some like Kalou and Kezman that are worse Mourinho signings but apart from Ferreira there are not any Mourinho signings who got regular games and who were worse than Carvallho. He was protected by being alongside Terry. If Senderos played alongside Terry for even half a seaons, then even DannyT would be acclaiming him.
If you want to be pedantic, Owusu-Abeiye was Wenger’s worst signings because he never played a serious role in the first-team but if you were looking seriously you would look at those designed to play a big role. On that criterion, Carvallho is up there as the worst of Mourinho’s signings.
mazza, I agree, goal.com show the ignorance of pundits. There are so many questions over our team for tomoorow - who plays and how they play - that makes it impossible to predict how we will do. If Fabregas plays with a good attacking line-up we could score loads. If he doesn’t and Diaby, Denilson, Gilberto and Walcott cannot generate chances, we could lose.
September 21st, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Joshuad,
The one player that can beat that kind of trap/high line is playing for Barcelona.
September 21st, 2007 at 6:06 pm
Sendy would be good for a 3rd choice CB. Not good enough to start at arsenal.
Off topic: F*** of Usmanov. Leave us alone…
September 21st, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Irish, I saw a guy that played for Sheffield Utd. do it last year and a guy that plays for Bolton did it as well.
September 21st, 2007 at 6:14 pm
mazza, i think u value rosicky and hleb waaaaay to highly….both of them combined are not as good as one fabregas. the truth of the matter is that rosicky and hleb are runners, with good technical ability and good passing. They draw players to them then lay the ball off. In other words adebayor does almost the same job pulling defenders left and right though he has poor passing.
on the bench: diaby is a runner with good ability but rather poor passing. plus is too right footed. while denilson is not a runner but has good ability and good passing. they CAN cope….for a while.
the passing level will ofcourse by say 25 percent (NOT MORE) but i think this can be compensated by freeing fabregas from all defensive duties and making the other 3 carry all that baggage. fabregas will then be free to make those through-the-eye-of-a-needle passes. just 2 or 3 of them and the game is won.
and actually fabregas and our game gets better late in the game when the opposition tires.
this is derby county not man u…..in last seasons league cup a midfield without fabregas, rosicky or hleb outpassed everton and won away.
September 21st, 2007 at 6:17 pm
henry in his current form cant spring our line….except sendy is there ofcourse.
September 21st, 2007 at 6:27 pm
How we cope without Rosicky and Hleb for me is the litmus test for this Arsenal team. Can we push and pull the opposition about and keep our passing to a high level. I’m not sure. We have handled teams in the Carling Cup with a second string midfield but the pressure is off in those games. Those ties are no-lose situations for the Denilson’s of this world. The question is, can they play with the same freedom with the three points up for grabs? I must say that’s where my biggest doubts lie with these youngsters. Not necessarily ability but bottle. I have serious doubts about their bottle and temperament. Flair players with bottle like Rosicky give those younger guys confidence to play their game. We’ll see how we transition from defensive midfield to the last third tomorrow without Hlebicky. That’s where we feel their loss.
September 21st, 2007 at 6:28 pm
“henry in his current form cant spring our line”
“I saw a guy that played for Sheffield Utd. do it last year and a guy that plays for Bolton did it as well.”
Sometimes it is nice being in the middle of a debate.
BUT, I prefer being at the edge and makinjg people think.
September 21st, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Mazza, the thing is we have come from behind and won more games this season than any other teams. And we had come from behind and won more games than any other teams last season as well. This should give us enough faith that this current side is far from being the “bottlers”.
Cast our memory back to the mid stage of last season, when we had a poor run of few games without goal nor win. That was the time I really worried whether the kids got what it take. Since then, they went on an unbeaten run extended all the way up until now. They have answered my question.
Looking at this season, we have been getting result, but the performance itself is far from our hey days when we could just blow every team away.
It has not been the case this season. A lot of our wins it’s a result of a never give up spirit, and battled hard together as a team.
That’s what it gave me faith. ‘Cos the boys have a RIGHT ATTITUDE. With that, even we have a few key players missing, or go down suffer a blip somewhere down the road, as long as they keep the same ATTITUDE, I firmly believe everything will be alright.
I am loving this post-Henry side more and more. In terms of “flair”, they are not as good as the class 2004, may never be. In terms of battling spirit, this side seem to be better, much better.
September 21st, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Irishgunner: “If Senderos played alongside Terry for even half a seaons, then even DannyT would be acclaiming him.”
Yeah, Senderos might do a little better at Chelsea because they play a defensive 4-5-1 formation in every game! This is the whole point of what I said. Arsenal DON’T PLAY DEFENSIVE FOOTBALL, hence why Senderos gets exposed. If Chelsea played attacking 4-4-2 Terry would still be excellent and Senderos would makes exactly the same mistakes as he does for Arsenal time and time again.
Irishgunner, how can you not rate Carvalho, he’s a fantastic defender - both him and Terry are superb positional players. Neither of them have great pace yet they make up for that with their positional intelligence.
As Mazza says, with Hleb and Rosicky out tomorrow will be interesting. I think problems could arise if Wenger plays Walcott left and Diaby right - because they’re still struggling a little to adapt - but I’d still expect Arsenal to win. I’d like to see Wenger be brave though and at least play Eduardo left with two strikers up front. Or push Van Persie into wide right and play Eduardo up with Adebayor.
September 21st, 2007 at 7:09 pm
Sorry, meant Diaby left, Walcott right.
September 21st, 2007 at 7:53 pm
actually i dont care if we play crap football 2moro….i just want us to score a goal more and get out of there.
we only really need to “outpass” the opposition and play “heavenly” football on the big stage against the likes of sevilla, the Man Us, Liverpools and spurs. against the likes of derby we just need the points nothing more.
September 21st, 2007 at 8:27 pm
I don’t think Senderos fits with this team, and I don’t think Terry would fit with this team.
Look at it this way: you are the referee and you see beautiful, free-flowing football up and down the field with Arsenal. Then there is a late counter at our guy Senderos. He’s not a bad player, but compared to the rest of our squad, he looks clumsy and oafish. The red card against Pompey was easy for the ref to give because he looked slow and out of position compared to the speed and flow of the others. My end point: he’s okay, maybe on a physical side like Blackburn, but not for our team. Every game I see him I do hold my breath, though, especially with Lehmann in goal.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:34 pm
I think the title of this article should be “Why Wenger persists with Senderos?”.
Senderos plays to the best of his abilities, which is not saying much. But I like him just for that fact - he gives his best. If Wenger deems him good enough for 3rd choice and that affects us, it’s Wenger’s fault.
Back when Campbell left, I was terrified that we were going into a season with Toure, Senderos, Cygan and Djourou. People forget just how damn lucky we were to get Gallas at the 12th hour.
For me, it’s Wenger’s call. He is not the best when it comes to defensive recruitment. Maybe his philosophy is that as long we attack well, it doesn’t matter much.
September 22nd, 2007 at 5:39 am
That’s why he’s never won the Champions League, the only time he got to the final is when Arsenal played boring defensive football on the way.
September 22nd, 2007 at 6:27 am
Ferguson did not win a Champions League until his 13th season in charge of Man Utd.
And in 20 season managing United, he has only won it once.
U do need some luck to win the big ear cup. And we were a Thierry Henry strike away from winning the damn thing.
Until the day Wenger finally left the club, I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of Arsenal winning the CL. In fact, I feel the current side is more equipped on doing well in Europe than in the EPL.
September 22nd, 2007 at 7:34 am
Well Sendoros is still playing for Arsenal and Wenger saw something in him that many of us here did not. Gallas is now 30 and when he moves on, Sendoros and Djourou will be the future partners for Toure in the heart of Arsenal’s defence.
September 22nd, 2007 at 9:11 am
What was that by Diaby? Has he been practising? Nice.
September 22nd, 2007 at 11:00 am
The kids just keep on coming back to prove the doubters wrong haven’t they?!
It was a very professional performance by the lads, with 5-0 up and less than 15 mins to go, we saw the Arsenal boys still been closing down the Derby players. It’s something rarely happened during the pre-Henry years.
And Fabregas….. u gotta be kidding me, GOAL again!
September 22nd, 2007 at 11:04 am
And Liverpool….. the Liverpool factor again - same old inconsistent Reds.
September 22nd, 2007 at 11:05 am
May be the “pundits” actually know something….
September 22nd, 2007 at 11:16 am
I just got home and missed the game so I’ll have to catch the extended highlights on match choice tonight. But what’s with no Gilberto again. Not even on the bench. Somebody tell me he was injured or sick.
September 22nd, 2007 at 11:16 am
Yes, that’s why they asked “who will replace Arsenal in the top 4″ less than 2 months ago!
September 22nd, 2007 at 11:20 am
Josh, Gilberto was rested. Anyway, without him we still won 5-0. In fact, even with Flamini in the middle, we had our best start of the season since 2004.
September 22nd, 2007 at 11:50 am
A comprehensive, ruthless performance. No taking minutes off, no quarter given.
The medium-long ball to Ade is beginning to turn into an awesome weapon. His knock-down, shielding, and then powerful shot were a thing of beauty. Sure it wasn’t Ferdinand and Vidic marking him, but Ade is set to out-Drogba Drogba if he keeps close to recent form. Oh yes, Ade is 23 and still improving…
He’s turning into the ‘Plan B’ we’ve needed for years and Cesc knows how to find him!
September 22nd, 2007 at 11:51 am
great game…..derby are not that good….but we did do better than that 4-0 prediction hey mazza
and without hleb and rosicky we still did “outpass” them.
diaby by doing that step in and shot for the goal immediately earned his weeks wage and replaced rosicky by 100%. there really is a difference btw the likes of hleb/rosicky and fabregas, scholes, ronaldo, etc. hleb and rosicky make space so that OTHERS can decide a game (very indirect in my view)……while the likes of scholes, ronaldo and co decide the games themselves.
i hope those two can keep up their passing BUT to really be very indispensable to this team they need to be DECIDING matches - not making space for others.
as for fabregas, he is an utter and complete genius. his passing and movement is visionary. he just needs to look up and see which runs he likes ….and baam the game is decided.
the crazyiest part is that wenger saw this 3 years ago and replaced a veteran with him. that is where wenger earns his paypacket and compensates for his relative defensive cluelessness.
September 22nd, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Brilliant game. Loved watching every minute of it.
The opener by Diaby was stunning. He still has his rough edges…but i’ll take them if he can provide moments of brilliance like his goal today. He almost had another from the same spot a couple of minutes later but was denied by a good save.
Adebayor was brilliant again today…leading scorer in the EPL at the moment
:D …..he looks good for a few more. Has really improved his finishing skills. If he can improve them a bit more he will really be some player.
Walcott was a bit of a disappointment with his final ball….he really needs to improve on that.
Rest of the team did a good job as well…..hope this run continues for a long time
And lastly….the smile on Wenger’s face after Fabregas scored said it all……More than anything i feel happy for Wenger…he’s had a tough 2-3 years with people questioning his decision making skills…..but from the looks of this team..looks like he’ll have the last laugh :).
Brilliant football
Cheers,
September 22nd, 2007 at 12:05 pm
now all we need is for chelsea and Man U to draw and for Man City to draw or lose and we will have a 4 point gap over the rest of the league WITH a game in hand. the difference would actually have been 2 points more but for lehmanns gaffe but lets forget about that.
now our next match is away at West Ham…..that will be a massive, massive test. if we take 3 points there that is it, we will be title challengers.
poor liverpool, they cant buy a goal…..long may their woes continue!
are we going to see a return to the Arsenal-Man U intense rivalry??????
September 22nd, 2007 at 12:14 pm
I made my original comment about the match in the thread about the match. How foolish of me…
What’s that about Adebayor?
Thank you. That is all.
September 22nd, 2007 at 12:15 pm
yeah wayne, imagine what the time would be like next season with even more experience and with one or two more players added. if not for the russian fiend, this would be really happy times for the arsenal.
now for the newcastle game, i honestly wont mind if just crash out of the tournament right now. the competition is absolutely pointless in my view so we should only play non-first teamers - there must be no fabregas, clichy, sagna, toure, rosicky, hleb. adebayor and RvP should only be on the bench. if we lose great, if we win great for the reserves. either way it doesnt matter.
we should start on tuesday with:
fabianski
flamini - senderos - hoyte - traore
walcott - diarra - denilson - diaby
eduardo - bendtner
bench of: almunia, song, flamini, RvP, adebayor.
some how i sense that toure will inevitably play anyway. but as long as fabregas is rested completely i should be happy. this competition is really pointless except u win it….those extra matches we played in january contributed massively to poor way we finished the league.
September 22nd, 2007 at 12:17 pm
@Mazza#20: Sadly Diaby had a great game, Denilson looked lively and Senderos didnt goof up. Adebayor hit the barn door in broad daylight and Flamini did the simple things right .. thats what I call a bad prediction
:D … Couldnt resist it.. sorry
September 22nd, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Yep, I hold my hands up.
However I look at Liverpool beating Derby 6-0, Tottenham beating them 4-0(which I forgot about yesterday) and think maybe this was the wrong time to declare this match a litmus test of our reserves etc.
However in a large part, regardless of the opposition, they did prove me wrong with Diaby’s goal and the kind of goal it was and Adebayor doing the business.
Hopefully tomorrow is a draw and then we go into the West Ham game without pressure.
September 22nd, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Awesome performance. Yes it was just Derby so lets have some perspective.
Almunia had nothing to do all game. Clichy might as well have had a nap there as well. Toure n Sendy were decent all the way and apart from one little miskick in the second half Sendy looked okay today. Toure has added those rampaging runs to his armour lately and these can be very useful against a tight defense like Chelsea or Pool or ManU. Sagna is excellent aerially and reminds me very very much of ol Ralph the more I see him with those well timed runs down the right side.
Theo was our worst player and he wasnt even that bad so I think that says it all. The calmness on the final ball is lacking..once he gets that he will be much better. Cesc was magical and Diaby’s strike must have given him some confidence. Hope he carries this through to the Carling Cup. Gilberto should be back for Westham in central midfield so I hope Diaby n Denilson start for Newcastle. Its quite evident why the other guys kept calling Flamini “Gattuso” in that crossbar challenge. That is exactly what he has been this season , running for everything and always making himself available for the simple passes. Watch carefully..Flamini will be everywhere, collect a ball from Kolo and slip a 3 yard pass to Cesc or collect a pass from Sagna and send it back towards Sendy. That is EXACTLY what Gilberto does as well. SO if we rate Bert then I see no reason why we shouldn’t rate Flamini either. Unless some people still have last season’s images still in their head.
Adebayor tormented Derby all game. His chest control was outstanding, especially and his tireless running all game was something we have never had, not even during the Invincibles bar Freddie. Now if he can get a goal every 3 games atleast rest of the season I’ll be very happy. RVP got some well deserved rest, hope to see him against Westham. Eduardo was very very lively and a bit unlucky not to have scored with that excellent header. It amazed me to see how deep he n Ade were dropping but still causing problems for Derby. An excellent win overall…and with Pool dropping points and either ManU or Chelsea dropping points 2morro as well ( a draw wud be nice
) we are in a good position. We just need to keep our head and not let this early success go to our heads.
September 22nd, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Two disappointments - Eduardo didn’t score and Walcott. For all his supposed pace, the kid still can’t run past defenders and his decision making is terrible. It’s like he not at all in tune with the rest of the team. Surely, more CC and FA Cup action for him.
By the way, Wenger played 6 of his 7 CMs today and Song was not the 7th one.
September 22nd, 2007 at 2:30 pm
its amazing how henrys departure has really lifted the team. i remember one time when henry was actually screaming at hleb just after hleb had scored from outside the box but with two other players free to his side. i also remember how he used to tick off RvP … even sometimes after scoring.
All that pass to the most free guy is utter bollocks. if that was in effect today, Adebayor would have tried to square the ball to Eduardo in the move for his first goal. And most probably a defender would have intercepted.
Does anybody know or remember when that “always pass” policy came in??? and why was Henry the major champion of that cause. In retrospect it is an utter bollocks idea. And it held us back.
Now our midfielders and strikers are perched on top of box and they are having pops without trying to make one more unnecessary pass.
Wenger sold him a season too late actually.
September 24th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
To answer DannyT, yeah, Ben Haim is crap. Silvestre is crap. These “many other” European teams with such depth at CB - I’d love to hear more about them.
And I wasn’t directly comparing Senderos to Upson, although I’ll be happy to do that now. Upson did a lot wrong during his time at Arsenal, including basically quitting on the team as his time drew to a close. There was an interview with him in the Guardian a few years ago where he admitted he didn’t train as hard as he should have towards the end. Hmm…injury prone…yet doesn’t train as hard as he could. Think there might be a correlation? He quit on Birmingham midway through their promotion campaign to sign for West Ham, then barely played for West Ham last season (because of - surprise - injuries), and this season has looked pretty poor. I’d take Senderos over Upson any day of the week.
September 25th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
Yeah……..and by the way Senderos captained Arsenal to a 2-0 victory over Newcastle in the Carling cup and heroically cleared a ball off the goal line. Gallas temperment is not right for Arsenal and he is too short for the central back position.
David, NYC Gunner
September 28th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
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