[ed note: The following mailbag submission is solely the opinion of its' author, and does not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Arsenal America board, or those of our membership as a whole. On a personal level, I think Dein can go to hell, but I digress.*]
I am a huge supporter of David Dein. Let’s not forget that it was Dein’s vision and not the custodians that brought Arsenal into the future. If it was left up to the so-called “custodians,” Arsenal would still be playing at Highbury and trying to find another Scottish manager. The truth of the matter is that the current custodians are benefiting from Dein’s work. Dein also did capitalize: he sold his shares over a hundred times from their original purchase price. He increased the valuation of Arsenal. Dein’s business acumen was spot on!
It was Dein’s vision to bring in Wenger, it was Dein’s vision as a general manager to support Wenger and isolate the Board from Wenger in order for Wenger to do his job without Board interference. Dein was a perfect buffer between the Board and Wenger. Look at what has happened at Chelsea when you examine the relationship between Kenyon, Mourinho and Abramovich. Daniel Levy has not done better when it comes to supporting Jol. Is this what we want? It was Dein who set up the new financing structure in order to make Emirates possible. It was Dein who saw the future and reached out to grab it.
We can praise Wenger for his on the pitch and development of the Arsenal football team. However, if you took Dein out of Arsenal in 1996, we might be in the same boat as Spurs.
I sympathize with Dein wanting to be chairman, off the pitch he is solely responsible for transforming and developing the Arsenal Club from a finance/business perspective. Football is a business. You have to remember, the current board without Dein would have run Arsenal like Daniel Levy has run Sp*rs…into the ground.
*The last sentence of the editor’s note was my personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect those held by the rest of the board and membership. - Mike K
54 Responses to “The Rightful Return of Dein”
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September 27th, 2007 at 8:13 am
Hahahahaha! I’m guessing that this tongue in cheek
If not, remove any reference to the Emirates from this article. Dein openly opposed and had little to do with it - Fiszman and Edelman and the rest of the board were the men and Lady behind this.
You could probably edit the article to this ‘It was Dein’s vision to bring in Wenger. The end’
September 27th, 2007 at 8:54 am
Agreed that Dein has done stuff in the past that was good for the club, but his latest move to sell his shares to fat bastard is purely due to a personal vendetta. Anyone with a personal vendetta does not belong at the club because it is bound to cause problems for arsenal long term.
Also, I guess following your logic, the “custodians” should have started meddling in AW’s business by now right ?
September 27th, 2007 at 9:13 am
I agree that we should be very grateful with what Dein gave to the club. I don’t want Usmonov though, and therefore if Dein is tied to Usmanov I don’t want Dein either.
However, if there is going to be a takeover I would still rather Dein + Usmanov than have a clueless Abramovich-type ego poking his nose in to everything.
If there is a forced takeover and Dein is NOT involved Wenger might well leave the club permanently and that would close the door on him moving upstairs, whereas if Dein IS involved there’s a likelihood he would stay.
So I think we should be very grateful to Dein indeed, and not rule out supporting his return depending on the circumstances. I agree that he is probably very angry and bitter about being ousted from the board, and I have a certain sympathy although obviously not privy to what goes on behind the scenes.
Ideally, things will stay as they are - and Usmanov will just piss off eventually. It’s clear that the board don’t want him and the fans don’t want him - and I think the fans will act if he tries to force a takeover.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:14 am
So what’s the point of this post? Are you saying we should welcome Dein back? If you can explain why we need to be taken over by a Dirty Russian Oligarch then go ahead.
I think most all Arsenal fans appreciate what Dein did when he was here; however, he’s done nothing but stir up trouble since he was let go. He’s slowly erasing all the good memories he created and replacing it with hatred towards him.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:57 am
If it were up to Dein, Arsenal would be playing at Wembley.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:35 am
I’m think the “custodians” are doing just fine:
–”We believe that producing cash for the business ourselves is the foundation for success,” Edelman said. “The people buying into football clubs want a return for their investment. After the very quick gain which might come from somebody putting money in there is normally long-term pain which comes from the payback.”
–Clearly, the directors resent Dein for having sought billionaire buyers for the shares - first Kroenke, then Alisher Usmanov - just when the agreed plan of making Arsenal strong via the development of the new stadium was reaching fruition. “It is very annoying,” Hill-Wood said. “Just when we had done all the work, David Dein started trying to sell out.”
–Hill-Wood was scathing: “David Dein decided to sell and take his money out so I don’t see why he should be involved. He decided he’d rather have the money. If he says he loves the club so much, he shouldn’t have sold out.”
–Arsenal argue they have done what all three rivals aspire to: they are self-sufficient, have pulled off a huge stadium move and have manageable debt, without being taken over. The figures announced this week, with operating profits of £51.2m and Edelman’s triumphant figure of £3m made at the new stadium every match, show, according to the directors, that the plan to base the future on a move is succeeding already. The borrowing of £260m at a fixed 5.3% interest for 20 years looks a very good deal now and Edelman said Arsenal are in line to make a £60m cash profit on the sale of the luxury flats built in the skin of the old Highbury. That could be used to clear a capital chunk of the debt.
“It was a hell of a six or seven years working on the project,” Edelman said, “but this vindicates the move. We had our moments, especially when we couldn’t raise the money, but it has been worthwhile. I think we can treat with some disdain the idea that we can only be successful if we have a benefactor.”
Source: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/09/26/if_dein_loves_the_club_so_much.html
September 27th, 2007 at 11:38 am
Sorry, I meant to say “I think…”
September 27th, 2007 at 11:41 am
This is by FAR the most ridiculous, naive and blindsided article I have read in a decade.
GO GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT.
I will never understand why some fans buy into the fantasy land that he is “mr arsenal”. you are completely wrong in all the points you listed. Utterly and completely wrong.
FIRST: It was the BOARD that took us into the EMIRATES. Dein OPPOSED the stadium move VERY STRONGLY. So Dein did NOT take us into the future….he wanted to take us to Wembley which would have BANKRUPTED US because it was late. Also if we were at Wembley we would not have the great income we have right now…and we would be sharing a stadium with the fcking national team. Dein would have wrecked us on that count.
SECOND: Why does every second fan give Dein credit for hiring Wenger? Hiring a manager or for any other position is HIT AND BLOODY MISS. If Wenger didnt do well in the first two years, Dein would have FIRED HIM - the exact same way he fired Brioch, Houston, Burtenshaw and Howe!!!!
The manager game is hit and miss. You can as well commend a lottery winner for being a genius! Stupid rationale.
THIRD: The board has a WONDERFUL relationship with Wenger as well. FACT.
FOURTH: A lot of people only saw Dein because it was Dein’s job to run the company. Dein was appointed the director by the board. Guess what directors at companies do???
They run the company hands on.
FIFTH: He increased Arsenal’s value by cashing in on his shares??? Which business school did you go to???
CONCLUSION: Dein should go to hell….or Spurs.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:46 am
Sometimes one wonders the literacy or enlightenment level of the general club fan base.
Cant people just stop and think taking in the big picture and being logical rather than basing their entire argument on faith and press and PR spins. STOP! THINK!
If your entire argument is just down to your blind and utter faith in one man and what he says then you can as well be a religious extremist - who are the stupidest people in the world.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:54 am
I have to admit I’ve been wondering if there’s some sort of consipracy theory going on with some of the posts which have appeared recently. If you’re willing to have a whole server shut down to remove a dissenting voice, why wouldn’t you spread a bit of misinformation/propaganda on message boards…and then I realise that some people just believe that ‘one man IS bigger than the club’.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:54 am
On a lighter note: I will not say Dein is not an arsenal fan…he probably is. But then so are hundreds of thousands of people. He is presently blinded by bitterness and a need to take revenge. And that is the worst motive for him to want a takeover. Plus he lied about the reasons for the takeover - saying the club was broke even though he knew that was lie.
All in all, I want Dein to takeover the club as much as I want Stag to run the Arsenal. Some people need to just bugger off.
He is worth almost 200 million pounds by now….there must be several Carribean islands waiting to be bought.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
Glad to see that there is at least one topic on which all of us agree on.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
@ nipuna - Except of course dkqgooner.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
I agree with the majority that Dein can just go away. He did do some good things while with the club, but that doesn’t mean that he didn’t have his share of mistakes either. My biggest issue with Dein is jumping in and out of bed with billionaires to try and get the club into his hands to run. He had a wonderful job with Arsenal, and let that get taken away from him for reasons known and unknown. Personally, I am done with discussing him in these posts, I believe everyone has made their opinions clear, and I am ready to move on to a different topic.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
I personally believed dkgooner put up this piece to just see how we would react to it. The fact that we are even discussing this topic makes us look dumb. This topic should not be up for discussion but just incase this is how dk really feels then he need not look further down the SW of London to see how what he is proposing can ruin a club.
Dein and his Uzbek friends should just bugger off. F…ing C..nts!!
September 27th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
Fred, I’m afraid you’re just as guilty as those you criticise. You accuse people of going over the top in their support of Dein, but your hatred of him is also completely over the top.
I am glad Arsenal didn’t move into Wembley, but had it of happened what makes you think the contractors would have been the same as the ones the FA used?It would have been a completely different set of circumstances, so it’s illogical to make any negative financial assumptions.
And appointing a manager is not all “luck” - Dein appointed George Graham and Wenger - two incredible managers. and both appointments required a great deal of foresight.
Why are you mentioning Dein’s supposed failures in appointing Rioch, Houston, Burtenshaw and Howe? If Dein was “lucky” with Wenger and Graham, maybe he was “unlcuky” with other appointments - you can’t have it both ways.
Besides that, on a factual basis, Dein wanted Wenger BEFORE Rioch, so it was the rest of the board that opted for Rioch NOT Dein. When Wenger became available the board created a dispute to sack Rioch and went with Dein’s choice.
Houston was only ever a caretaker manager, as was Burtenshaw - neither man was ever going to be an Arsenal manager full time no matter how they performed in their short caretaker stint. As for Don Howe, he might have only lasted three years, but he was an enormously respected and experienced coach - and he resigned - he wasn’t sacked. So when it comes to thinking logically and piling the blame on Dein, you need to at least do more research.
You might not be happy with what Dein is doing now, neither am I, but it’s grossly unfair to dismiss what he’s done for Arsenal football club - because if it wasn’t for his key decisions - Arsenal could easily be an average club right now still playing at Highbury minus a few cabinets full of trophies.
I’m not saying you have to like Dein or support what he’s doing now, but it’s a disgrace to write off what he’s done for the club in the past.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Couldn’t have said it better than DannyT already has. This recent hatred for Dein is just ridiculous. It’s as ridiculous as everyone jumping on the Arsenal bandwagon this season because of our results.
Look, David Dein isn’t perfect, but, to me, he’s a hell of a lot better than the other options on the board. Who is the football brain on the board if Dein’s no longer around? Who do you trust to appoint as our next manager if somehow the board can’t convince Arsene to do that? Who among that group of tax cheats and rich heirs do you think has even 10 percent of the football knowledge and connections Dein has?
OK, Dein was wrong to oppose the Emirates and to push for Wembley. But what else did he do wrong while he was still involved with the club?
Guess what? Arsene’s not going to stay at Arsenal forever, while Dein, if given the chance, would do so until he croaked. I haven’t been a fan forever, only for the past 10 years, but I want the club to be in good hands even after Arsene leaves. That’s a hell of a tough job, and the ony two people I would trust to watch over the club are Arsene and Dein. I seriously doubt Arsene would stay with Arsenal after he retires from managing, so, to me, it’s a pretty easy choice to make.
And all this fawning over the Emirates and how rich we are now - so freaking what? Arsene doesn’t spend money, so what’s the big deal? Is the board going to reduce ticket or merchandise prices? Of course not. Is the club going to capitalize on the potential new fanbase? Highly unlikely, since they’ve maintained the highest ticket prices in England and only on occasion lower prices so that the common man can afford it. All this talk of how rich we are now makes me cringe when I think of that group of idiots on the board who are supposed to manage the money.
Peter Hill-Wood is the Admiral Stockdale of Arsenal, without Stockdale’s courage or pedigree. He needs to shut up, play with his .8% of the club, and just go away. I’m sick of seeing this has-been’s quotes trotted out anytime there’s some vaguely controversial issue to deal with. You think Arsene likes the fact that there’s no longer one central voice on the board? I’d bet anything he doesn’t…and I’d also bet anything that he and Dein will work together again.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Another thing to remember is that Dein and Usmanov are allies NOW. What happens if they do succeed in taking over the club and have a (inevitable, I think) dispute? Usmanov fires Dein and we end up with the same situation Chelsea is in.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Dan, I’m sorry, but Dein lost me when he got into bed with a known criminal. I was willing to hear him out when he tried to bring in Kronke, but this just smacks of desperation to get back in and seize control.
September 27th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
I don’t agree with what Dein is doing now, but that doesn’t take away from what he did over the last 25 years. People make it sound like he should have been shot for wanting to move to Wembley, well maybe he didn’t want a £350m debt hanging over Arsenal’s head - how is that not in the best interests of Arsenal? It may not have been the right decision, but it wasn’t a selfish decision.
Dein was the only one who had the vision to drive Arsenal forward during the eighties while the current board sat around doing nothing, the club was in a mess. No other board member had the courage or foresight to appoint a foreign coach.
Hindsight is all well and good, Wenger’s been able to keep us in the Champions League without big money - JUST - but had he left a new manager would be screaming for cash to keep the spending up there with Tottenham, Liverpool, Newcastle, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd, Aston Villa and even West Ham. So I don’t think Dein was wrong to look to foreign investment - it’s what all the other major clubs are doing even without a huge debt hanging over their heads. From experience Dein knows that the board are slow in keeping up with the times, thats why he tried to involve Kroenke in the first place - the boards reaction was pretty hostile and irrational - especially Hill Wood. He’s another one whose heart is in the right place, but if you left all the decisions to him Arsenal would have sat still for 30 years.
Arsenal are just lucky they have Wenger and he’s stayed - because he’s totally unique.
I agree that with Usmanov, it looks like Dein is desperate and running out of options. I can’t agree with it - and if Dein never works for Arsenal again so be it. Yeah, Usmanov is a crook, guess what - the whole of Italian football is corrupt, Spain is well dodgy and England too - it’s called big business. It’s naive to imagine otherwise. One of Arsenal’s biggest shareholders is a diamond merchant, so blood-money has already trickled through this club and they’ve been taking Kroenke and Usmanov’s cash for years already.
September 27th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
Really I’m pretty sick of the whole David Dein saga. IMO it’s been thrashed out here 1 million times and I can now almost predict what who is going to write. Look ..once and for all lets get this straight…When I came back from work at 11:00 that night and I saw DD had quit I was shocked…I thought Arsenal was gone…its heart had been ripped out and I couldnt think straight for 2 days. That is what DD “was” to Arsenal. Like it or not.. PR or not…whether DD was responsible for major decisions or not… DD was GOD(not religiously) for 90% of the fans and ARsenal through and through. Him wanting to move to Wembley was as simple as a mis-calculation– a business miscalculation…thats it. He DID NOT want to ruin the Arsenal…lets get that straight. All of us do something in good faith and backed by our own set of facts which we will justify till we are blue in the face — thats what DD did. Turned out he was wrong — that is no reason to say that he is not an Arsenal fan. If at all we did get taken over I’d be happy with just DD without his crappy Uzbek pals on the board.
Now for the flip side DD should never have sold out. I am not willing to believe that someone who’s as smart as DD and who showed great vision in bringing AW through from J-League under so much pressure didn’t see that Arsenal would be a cash cow in the future. I don’t think he’s in it for the cash as well — unless he’s let his ego and hatred for the board blind him into thinking that Usmanov is good for the board. Yes things became too hot in the dressing room..but that was no reason for DD to sell to a fucking crook who has a record of almost every crime there is to commit, specially if you consider teh values and traditions of Arsenal and the ethics AW , his big pal stands by.
So all in all .. if DD is back…alone…he’s welcomed…if its with those fucking assholes I wouldnt want him anywhere near my club.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Danny - so there may have been different contractors on the Wembley job, err it still woudln’t have been our ground and Wimbeldon, Crystal Palace may be intetresting exmaples of clubs without grounds. You don’t get the full ticket revenue, you are renting, is the simple argument which matters when you have 41,000 on your season ticket waiting list. So it is correct to make financial assumptions and apply them to our recent results.
I’m not out to assasinate Dein, he did a great job (with the blessing of the board -Fiszman could have probably have sacked him whenver he wanted, but they didn’t when they trusted him to do a good job). Nobody should Cannonise him for the appointment of Arsene Wenger, it’s not luck but he made some poor decisions too. The simple question is who is more responsible for Arsenal’s current situation Dein or Wenger?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Danny, about the manager appointment issue…everysingle fan supporting Dein always says “he appointed wenger” as their main reason for supporting him…and am just saying the appointments of managers is a very lucky business.
He has done good things in the past, he is a fan (which doesnt make him infallible).
And I dont have an hatred for him. When he was sacked, I was very concerned about a meltdown. Then I heard the reason, I was slightly opposed to it … but I could understand why Dein might have been propelled by mitigating circumstances. And I still had a LOT of respect for him.
The moment ALL my respect for him left is when he sold to Usmanov and it became clear he is just being vindictive.
Make no mistake Usmanov is an utter and complete criminal. Abramovitch is shady because he exploited a weak system but Usmanov is a real “hands on” criminal.
You say you will welcome Dein back … but without Usmanov. The problem is that he has sold ALL his shares already. So he has no other power apart from his so called red and white group. If he really wanted to be of independent influence why did he sell all his shares?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Regardless of Dein’s past failures and successes, the reality of the situation is that the club has done well under the current ownership and any changes to the ownership structure are a big risk — even if a change brings about Dein’s renewed involvement with the club. There are just too many unknows. Plus, there is certainly enough bad blood (Dein) and bad press (Usmanov) for us to question intentions and motives.
That aside, long term, I think a real problem is placing the fate of the club in the hands of one owner. It might work for other clubs, but Arsenal’s board approach has been successful for Arsenal because it has enabled Wenger to do his job. Balance tempers rash actions and requires careful consideration of consequences. But, how would a Usmanov/Dein/Wenger situation play out? Too many chiefs? Is Usmanov the type to demand high-price purchases? Would he act rashly following fourth place finishes, or would he place faith in the manager?
There are too many unknowns — even with Dein involved. Why rock the boat?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Anyway, even if Dein comes back in on a stained high horse….the problem is he will just be an employee. And 3 simple words like “You are fired” will get him out in a second. Meaning he is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
How long did Ken Bates last as the so called “chairman” of Chelsea before leaving by “mutual consent”. A few months. Dein will be given that same time frame before the inevitable happens. And then we will really be in the shit.
And then Dein will put his hands over his head and think to himself “what have i done”.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
dkqgooner, this is the second one in a week’s time. Utter crap! I’ve never seen anyone post the foolishness that you do. First the “Senderos is a Hero” story and now this?
WTF!
I’ve never heard of dkqgooner before recently on this site. He didn’t even know that Dein was not in favor of the Emirates Stadium move. Fella’s I think we’ve been infiltrated. dkqgooner is a Spurs fan in cahoots. If you post on one of his threads then proceed with caution.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Jim, you are right, a board situation is a stable ownership method….that is why most companies use it.
And Russians are far more “hands on” when it comes to companies and sports teams meaning they will definitely interfere. I can already imagine Wenger waking up one day to 2 new Kazakstanis and 1 Ukrainian in the training ground….ending finally with Wenger cursing in french and storming out. Forever.
Anyway, I am tired of this topic. Lets move on to real football.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
I see from the BBC site that Mark Lawrenson is predicting a loss for us at West Ham … the c-nt! The team better prove him wrong.
Ladies and gentlemen, West Ham is the so-called “real test” we have been waiting for. Its not in the north but its tough team with shoddy stadium and relatively shoddy pitch and with a northern style of play. And they are high on the table too.
I will take a win or a draw (if they score first)
September 27th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Dein want’s to be chairman of this cash cow called Arsenal and will do anything, including selling all of his shares to Usmanov to get what he wants. He’s so desperate, and I know this is disgusting, but he’d probably take it up the ass if it will make him chairman. Sounds to me like he’s got his own agenda and while it used to be about Arsenal, now it’s all about Dein and his revenge.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
I think if Dein was only interested in money he would have held onto his shares - after all, with all of these takeover rumours and excellent financial results the price is more likely to substantially increase rather than decrease.
As for Lawrenson, why is he a c*nt for predicting an Arsenal defeat, are you a c*nt everytime you predict a Spurs defeat? He can predict whatever he likes.
Personally, I think it’s very possible Arsenal could lose to West Ham, with Senderos and Almunia at the back massive clangers are never very far away - and Ljungberg - if fit - is almost bound to score.
The acid test of whether Arsenal are good enough for the challenge for the title will be the results away from home - and in truth the team did not play that well against Blackburn or Tottenham. In fact if it wasn’t for Tottenham’s woeful finishing Arsenal could easily have conceded three or four. Defend like that on the road again and we’ll get unstuck sooner rather than later.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
dwinkler - “Peter Hill-Wood is the Admiral Stockdale of Arsenal, without Stockdale’s courage or pedigree. He needs to shut up, play with his .8% of the club, and just go away.”
Eh, Dein owns 0% of the club. What gives him, more than any other fan, a right to have a say in things?
dkqgooner - “Dein’s business acumen was spot on!”
Yes, he sold his shares at around 8,300. Two weeks later Usmanov was buying them for 10,000. Real business acumen.
dkqgooner - “It was Dein who set up the new financing structure in order to make Emirates possible. It was Dein who saw the future and reached out to grab it.”
Eh, didn’t Dein oppose the Emirates and wanted the money spent on big-name players. Wenger wanted to build a young team and move to the new stadium.
I am inclined to agree that this is a wind-up written by a fan of some other club. He has written the post, disappeared and is not around to answer the holes pointed out in his post.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
What’s going lately? People who I’ve never heard of are posting stories without ever replying to previous threads and doing the usual newcomer thing. It’s like they just write a story and piss off. Nothing wrong with it of course, just a bit strange.(Unless they are closet spuds)
September 27th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
Arsenalski - Niet !!!
You can’t turn back the hands of time and last time I checked Dein was let go. Seems to me his latest attempt to come back leaves much to be desired.
Niet to Dein to and his Bolshevik banker / master.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
http://arseblog.com/1pics/ddbig.jpg
lol
September 27th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
dwinkler…..there is too much to disagree with in your postings
on this topic.
September 27th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
My aim in writing the article is that Arsenal has an off the field crisis to deal with. Right now things look good on the field and with the finances but there will be a show down with Dein and the board.
David, Arsenal fan NYC
September 27th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
dkqgooner - probably more accurate to say there will be another showdown.
Act 1:
The first showdown took place when Dein misread the tea leaves and got Kroenke on board without getting the Boards buy-in (see footnote).
Dein committed the common mistake of a ‘mover & shaker’ he got ahead of himself. He obviously thought the club needed ‘a billionaire’ (ala Kroenke) and made it happen. Whoops - not so smart when he had failed to convince (or consult?) his FELLOW board members.
Result - he got fired, ejected, drop-kicked.
Act 2:
Dein sells to Usmanov - a bizzare move by anyones standards which diluted the goodwill of the masses (not to mention the Board). This action was a declaration of open war.
Act 3:
still being scripted
Footnote: Let’s remember that Dein as a minority shareholder and an executive director (employee) has always been accountable to his fellow board members and shareholders. He is not a lone ranger.
September 27th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
This Dein worship baffles me. If he were that positive an influence, he would not need to form covert alliances against the current board. As said in post #3, currently Dein=Usmanov and that is an equation that should make people run. Whatever loyalty he had for the team has now been directed into an ego-driven vendetta against the board and nothing good can come from it.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
@ danny, i meant the lawro comment as tongue in cheek….a sort of the-players-better-prove-him-wrong sort of way. I probably should have put an appropriate smiley at the end of that.
ofcourse we could lose…..cos even when senderos plays very well, he still presents the opposition with three excellent chances to score. so our best hope is that fabregas and adebayor continue to take matters in their own hands.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:23 pm
Must be time for RvP to score again.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:29 am
@ LDE, post 21. I agree everything u wrote there. Basically u spoke up everything I wanna say.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:57 am
Cheers Andez..great minds think alike
.. Guys lets just drop the DD threads IMHO.. its been thrashed over too many times ….and everyone of us repeat the same things…none of us are going to change our opinions…so lets agree to disagree…
@Danny#30:
“As for Lawrenson, why is he a c*nt for predicting an Arsenal defeat, are you a c*nt everytime you predict a Spurs defeat?”
This was hilarious
September 28th, 2007 at 3:02 am
As for the author being a Spurs fan… nothing’s proved…no one knows … so its just his opinion..no need to slate him or call him a fake…theres no proof whatsoever…the whole site anyway is “IMO” … just coz I disagree with Mazza on Senderos or Denilson does not mean either of us are c*nts
September 28th, 2007 at 3:04 am
I do still believe Dein can do a great job for Arsenal. In fact, when I heard that Spurs were approaching him (before he sold his shares), I was worrying Spurs would become a strong side.
Like him or hate him, David Dein is a very good and capable leader for any club. That is something I don’t think anyone can deny.
But someone pointed out a valid point above - there IS a possibility that Russian guy may get rid of him if they successfully taken over. Then we would be left with that Russian guy, I will hate it when it happens.
September 28th, 2007 at 3:11 am
“As for the author being a Spurs fan… nothing’s proved…no one knows … so its just his opinion..no need to slate him or call him a fake…theres no proof whatsoever”
That I agree again LDE!!
September 28th, 2007 at 4:57 am
Yet again, it all boils down to whether you consider Wenger or Dein responsible for our success on the pitch. Off the pitch, success is down to the board.
September 28th, 2007 at 6:08 am
You can’t disassociate the two, it’s like saying your arm is independent of your brain. Arsenal football club is responsible, if there was no Dein there would have been no Graham and no Wenger - thus no Emirates. Unless you think there are better managers out there who could have done what Wenger has for eleven years and made a profit.
September 28th, 2007 at 6:40 am
Dein did good things and he got 75M for that. As for now, Usmanov is proving to be a shady guy and one wonders why Dein had to go and make a deal with him. Sometimes you undo all your hard work in one foolish move. This seems to be such a case.
September 28th, 2007 at 7:01 am
Of course you can dissociate the two and that’s what the cult of Dein appears unable to do. The basis of many arguments for having Dein return is that he did such a fantastic job of hiring Wenger and Dein himself has tried hard to take as much credit for Wenger’s work as possible. Once Wenger was hired, how much influence of the playing side of things did Dein have? Another argument adviance has been that Dein somehow shielded Wenger from the big bad interfering board (the one that I don’t recall interfering with any previous manager), even if that was the case, by extension the board let David Dein get on with it.
I just find it hard to believe that so many people are desperate to give all the credit to Dein when you say yourself that Arsenal FC is responsible.
I really appreciated the workof David Dein in the same way that I really appreciate the work of Gary Lewin.
September 28th, 2007 at 7:07 am
bare in mind though, WHY David Dein could get his shares as cheap at the first place 20 yrs ago? Nobody was stopping anyone to buy Arsenal shares at that time, why they didn’t buy?
Say, today if u invest in a company nobody gives a prayer of its prospect. But you have FAITH in it. 20 years later, u made a hugh profit out of it against all odds. Do u think u DESERVE the “profit” or not?
But i do agree Dein had made the wrong move by selling to the wrong people.
September 28th, 2007 at 7:29 am
I’m sorry but I think Arsene Wenger is more important to Arsenal than David Dein. DD is gone and we ain’t missing him but can we say the same when Wenger’s time comes?
Dein, just like anybody else, is only as good as his last f*ck-up. He’s like a gold-digger, he will sleep with anybody that gives him what he wants with no regard to their character. I’m done talking about this guy.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:23 am
No-one’s saying Dein is “as good” as Wenger, stop making stuff up. I’m saying you cannot underestimate the role Dein has played - it has been vitally important, nowhere near as important as what Wenger has done but crucial nonetheless. So try giving him credit for what he HAS done, not what he hasn’t.
You can think whatever you like about what he’s doing now, but that will never change the fact that Dein has been absolutely brilliant for this club.
In Wenger’s own words only yesterday: “Indeed at a certain time I had doubts” and “David Dein’s departure has been something very difficult to swallow. Anyway, David remains an Arsenal fan and he has always pushed me to stay at the club.”
Read into that what you like. If you don’t want to back-up Wenger it’s your affair.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:55 am
I loved DD of old, not DD currently. We shall not forget what he has done for the club, but that does not blur our vision for what he’s doing at the moment.
When DD claims that Arsenal needs a massive investment to compete with other top clubs, you know it was an excuse for his real agenda - to become Chairman at Arsenal at all costs. DD, of all people, knows that Wenger doesn’t need or want a huge transfer kitty in order to get his players, so money is NOT a hindrance to Arsenal’s transfer policy.
The club is doing fine now. We have a healthy income and the business plan is sound and sustainable to service its stadium debt. Any good business will from time to time take out a loan for capital investment - it’s not like this debt was taken out to buy players (Leeds) or to buy the club (Man Utd, Liverpool). The return on investment at the moment more than covers the cost of borrowing, so it’s all good. I don’t want a take over to happen and suddenly wiped out all this good work by the current board - it’s another thing that makes Arsenal unique being the only remaining top 4 club to run on its own merit as a business.
Even one day when Wenger leaves and we get a less skilled manager who may need to buy more established players, our turnover should generate sufficient funds for transfers and we should continue to maintain our player wages at around 50% of turnover - healthiest amongst the top 4. Arsenal with the current business model will continue to function with or without Wenger and we don’t need a take over or DD. We thank him for his past, but he’s not welcomed by me unless he puts Arsenal’s interest ahead of his own. The current board have their priorities right.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Well its nice to some argument for and against Dein. It is also nice to see how lucky we (Arsenal) are to have Wenger, but then we always were lucky.
Dein is an Arsenal fan or at least he was until he sold his shares. The strange thing is he sold to Uselessmob (his friends in a hurry – their Russian) instead of Krynkey (his mate from USA –cool dude). Dein has had a wonderful ride with Arsenal and helped take the club to two amazing records. These are the Undefeated season of the first team and the Perfect season of the Ladies team. I do not have any reason to doubt his heart.
However, he has had some strange liaisons recently, particularly after his son’s marriage. Arsenal fans in London always have a rivalry with Spurs and in some cases there is an innate hatred. Being seen in the Directors box one week and then having sold his Arsenal shares to some unknown ‘fat bloke’ has tainted his standing amongst the Arsenal fans. I for one do not trust his motives any more.
Wenger on the other hand is a friend of Deins. This friendship started before Wenger joined the Arsenal and has continued post Deins farewell to the boardroom. I have no doubt there is a lot of talk about football and related matters when they meet. The thing that I cling to as an Arsenal supporter is Wengers integrity. This is a reflection of the integrity of the Arsenal board.
The Arsenal board are not past it senior citizens, but are true Arsenal fans with a love of the club foremost in their hearts. They have over the years been guiding the club with astute decisions and taken advice where necessary. They have good professional relationships with all of the staff without overstepping their positions. I am more than satisfied as a fan that they have only the success of Arsenal Football Club as their goal.
I am not sure of the new wealthy shareholders. I would not make a judgement until I really knew more.