Sep 29
Robin van Persie’s headed goal in the 13th minute was enough to see the Gunners earn a tough three points away to West Ham at Upton Park this afternoon.
This is the kind of game that would have been a draw or loss last season, but this year, there’s a different attitude in the side, and it’s great to see. We’re having connectivity issues here at my house, so I’m forced to keep things brief. Dan, if you want to add more, please, feel free!
85 Responses to “West Ham 0 - 1 Arsenal”
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September 29th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
I am very impressed with this result - some might say Arsenal were lucky, as rumour has it Ljungberg’s disallowed goal was onside, but the fact of the matter is if you want to challenge for the title this is exactly what you have to do, fight, scrap, hold on.
The fact is, if you want to beat Arsenal at the moment you need to rely on more than a couple of good chances and refereeing decisions going your way. Arsenal were the same last year, they couldn’t win because either they didn’t create enough clear cut chances or fluffed up their finishing. Now they are creating enough and finishing chances, and they don’t need to blame hitting the bar or a bad offside decision etc. that’s now West Ham’s problem.
So there is a marked difference from last year. Maturity is key, a burning desire to win, self-belief - all were absent last season and it’s what’s making the difference.
It’s a three-horse race - Chelsea cannot possibly win the title. I would still put Man Utd as favourites, but something in the back of my mind is reminding me of the unbeaten season - I’m obviously not saying we Arsenal go unbeaten, but pre-season nobody thought we had a chance of doing anything that year.
September 29th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
1. The team played well. It was a tough test and we were strong enough to deal with a very physical team.
2. WHU closed down very well and kept pumping long balls into the box.
3. Thank to their keeper score remained 1-0. 3-4 Excellent saves.
4. Freddy shined - Hleb is slower :O) - got beat to a couple of balls by him. His goal was offside. At the time the ball was played, Freddie was offside, Toure put him on with a touch on the ball, but by that time flag was raised. Rub of the green I guess.
5. Diabi needs to learn to use his left foot. He kept trying for that right footed wonder goal.
6. RVP needs to bench his ego a bit and work on his team play. Played well, but relied too much on his flare. Pissed Arsene off and got pulled towards end of game for being lazy on the ball.
7. Sendy - still not convincing.
8. Defense - needs a bit more organization.
9. Cesc looked jaded.
10. When RVP replaced by Bert 4-5-1 helped seal the game.
Long live Arsene! Viva Arsenal!
September 29th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
3 points to the good! Yes, this team has resilency and that always results in getting extra points during a season. I still have faith in RvP and glad he got on the scoresheet. Unfortunately, I missed the game. I would like to see Noble’s challenge on Hleb. FoxSoccer’s site (RivalsDM report..) indicated that it was vicious. Unlike a few others, I don’t think a referee should protect the finesse players. The rules apply the same to every player and all players should be protected the same. That said, if a challenge warrants a red-card then be brave and show it. Drogba’s 2nd yellow was clear and however unintentional if you put you boot 6 feet up you run the risks…
Watched R. Ferdinand play this afternoon and wondering if the Senderos comments would be made for him as well if he were on our team… Man U. did not look good today IMO- few chances and Birmingham was the better team 1st half. Still got the job done and that is what matters…
September 29th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
I too believe Man Utd will be our biggest threat, as always. Saw the 2nd half Birmingham Vs Man U, Man U didn’t play well. but the truth is the gap between the top 3 or 4 sides and the rest is still very massive.
The main difference is the ability to keep hold of possession. Man U weren’t doing it very well tonight, but still mile ahead of Birmingham.
as i said early after their poor early season form, i don’t care if they lost 5 in a row, they are still a major contender of the league. the team just mentally tough as nail.
even they are still my most hated team (along with Chelsea), but over the years seeing Arsenal’s constant battle with United at the top of the tree, it’s difficult not to respect a team like them.
September 29th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
I agree, Danny T. - it was an impressive result, if not particularly sparkling. Flamini continues to take up the mantle of diminutive hard case in the midfield, with Cesc putting in a couple of “friendly warning” tackles too. No whingeing, or dramatics, either which is all good training for those winter games up North.
The Freddie ‘goal’ was mighty close. Why couldn’t he make those kind of darting dialogue runs for us in his last year?
Interestingly, whereas last year the team struggled to expand to the new bigger pitch at the Emirates, now it’s the revese - they seemed a little penned in back on a smaller Highbury-size pitch like Upton Park.
Certainly, West Ham were able to harrass and stifle our midfield a lot more, not letting Cesc get free in that crucial gap between the halfway line and the penalty box.
But we have an extra dimension to our tactics, along with the newfound grit and resolve. So this year we are scoring more, if not most, of our goals from non-pretty-pretty football - crosses, headers, long balls up to Adebayor, 20-yard pile drivers. Go Gunners!
Only counted one real Sendy error - is this a record?
September 29th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
its eerie how arsenal, man u and liverpool all won 1-0 away from home in relatively difficult matches. its a show of intent. and i agree with all above who think that its gonna be a 3 horse race as i dont see how chelsea will come back especially with the suspensions and injuries to key players they now have….and not even talking about the loss of mourinho. i mean who is gonna carry lead their charge? mikel obi or sidwell? or kalou? lol.
anyway, the real two key matches will be the back to back matches with liverpool and Man U in late october early november. but first we need the 6 points from the two games in between.
September 29th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Another fantastic game. We created good chances and played well. It was nice to see us fall back into a “defensive” mode a few times and catch our breath. During those times, even though the Hams had the ball they didn’t seem threatening at all. I agree that the score could’ve been 2 or 3 to the good if not for Mr. Green. I heard during the commentary that the news on Hleb is encouraging, just a deep bruise. Any word on him or Adebayor?
This marks the 2nd game running where the opponent’s main positive tactic was to commit to hard, crunching tackles. Looks like everyone’s gunning for us gunners after all.
September 29th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
Very proud of kids today. They hang on to the one goal advantage all the way. West Ham was a good side today. They attacked us, but we managed to survive.
September 29th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
I knew Ljungberg would score - definitely onside.
September 29th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
The boys did wonders today at Upton Park. Three pints for each Gunner!
September 29th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Missed the match, but 3 pts = 3 pts. Our injuries seem to be mounting. But we’re winning, and ManU and Pool look atrocious at best. And I saw our Carling Cup draw is Sheff U away. Lambs to the slaughter for our youngins. I personally like the cup competitions myself. And I think we get hardware one way or another this year.
September 29th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
Happy for the win from what should of been a draw after Freddie’s goal was taken back. I agree with DannyT this team is hugely different than last year and it’s because they’re playing as a team. Yet that huge is predicated on a series of small changes all described so well by DannyT.
It’s nice to see Arsenal look so threatening in the box and the added height has made a world of difference to set plays.
Senderos looked very vulnerable today and if Ashton had better form, this game might of had a different outcome.
I learned to respect the Hammers when Arsenal have played them these last years so I’m really happy for the win. As for Freddie’s disallowed goal well sometimes you got to have luck to and we had it today.
Good on the lads.
September 29th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
the ljunberg goal was flagged offside because the linesman raises his flag the moment the ball is passed and the attacker is in an offside position….there is no way for him to know that it would hit a defenders leg and so if it does he has already raised his flag and the referee blows.
we were not lucky…..it was deserved after they took out hleb on 30 minutes.
a well hardfought victory nothing less.
its funny, last season we would have been the one complaining about imaginary offsides, penalty calls, bla bla bla.
in the end all title worthy sides have their mojo on, and random decisions mostly go in their favor in a sort of luck favoring the better team sort of way … the same way Man U and chelsea have had countless “lucky” decisions go their way.
September 29th, 2007 at 10:38 pm
About decisions, last season at West Ham, we were denied a cast iron penalty on Hleb. This season, West Ham don’t get an offside decision. That’s how it goes.
September 29th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
Just saw the extended highlights from MOTD (via arsenalclips.blogspot)
* If RvP scores a goal and almost scores another like he hit the post, I think I’ll be happy. He is not a 90-min player, more a bang bang one, but very good at that
* I think by now every GK knows that Ade sidefoots his shots, hence he misses too many 1:1s.
* Did you see Ashton get behind Toure to head straight at Almunia? If that was Senderos …
* Am I the only one who thinks Flamini’s shots are almost always on target?
* I would love for Clichy to score a goal sometime.
The best result of the season? Winning when not playing your best.
September 29th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
Andez, I liked your comment about Ade, Flamini and Clichy stepping up after watching Bendtner, Diarra and Traore do well in the CC. Do you think that Rosicky and Hleb will be feeling the same way after watching Walcott, Diaby and Eboue?
September 29th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Great result in a type of game we lost or drew last season (@Everton, for example). Hleb’s injury looked pretty bad in slow mo, I hope he is OK because his cross was brilliant and he’s been playing well. I love the confidence we are playing with right now… not trying to pass the ball into the net as much as last year, I like the odd long range shot the boys are throwing in there. Now if Spurs can collapse on Monday it would round out a great weekend!
Around the league… Ronaldo’s goal was quality (grrr) but ManU really looked lost during long patches. I hope that the seemingly incompatible Rooney/Tevez pairing won’t have them go after Huntelaar during the transfer window.
Drogba’s second yellow was shocking. Chelsea is in a spiral right now, if they lose against Valencia Avram will go.
And finally…. a hat-trick for Theirry today. That second goal was vintage Henry. I don’t miss him like I feared I would, of course, but he is still a legend.
September 29th, 2007 at 11:23 pm
yeah i think in midfield and attack we are good….we have the quality and we have a lot of competition there. once rosicky and hleb come back we will be really strong. at wingback and goalie we also have good depth, the problem now is depth in central defense. we are just a massive center back away from a really awesome side.
u know its funny how we used to rely on eboue as a first choice RB lol….those were traumatic days!!! i think we will look back at the senderos days in the same manner.
last season eboue, senderos and clichy were all defensive liabilities. now sagna has solved the RB problem completely, clichy has stepped up. meaning far less pressure on the center backs and goalie.
too bad for clichy that france has so many good leftbacks. abidal starting for barca, evra starting for Man U. that means he will probably have to wait till euro 2008 to really enter the french squad.
September 29th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
ManU have score 7 goals in 8 games, yet won 5 and have 17 points. Sounds like a repeat of last season. Arsenal are the new ManU and ManU are the new Chelsea.
September 30th, 2007 at 12:03 am
A gutsy performance against an opponent who played a pressing game in order to stiffle Arsenal’s passing game. To some extent, they succeeded as Cesc did not have one of his best games. Last season, Arsenal will be hard pressed to come away with at least a point against such opposition let alone all 3. Hard fought wins like this will go far in convincing the players they can handle the overly physical teams - I see this team to be better equipped than the Arsenal of the last 2 seasons to handle the northern teams in November. I might need to change my assessment of this team to finish better than 4th this season.
Adebayor had a great chance to score in the opening minute but instead of his usual pass-cum-shot, chose to go for power and miss the goal completely from just inside the box. A very bad miss for an in-form player. It is good to see RvP challenge for the header and scoring from it - hopefully Arsenal can score more of such goals this season to vary the attacking scheme. In Eboue, Helb, Cesc and Walcott, we have excellent crossers of the ball and our strikers must take advantage of them. Again Flamini had a big game with his running and covering for the team whenever West Ham break. Diaby appear more comfortable in the left midfield slot in place of Rosicky. Our defence held up very well against the high balls pumped towards Ashton and Camara. Clichy and Sagna had strong performances today down the wings. I have to vote for Sagna as the signing of the season so far - he fitted in with the team so well and so quickly.
Tuesday game against Steaua will be a good one. Glad that Setanta is showing it live. Other than Helb, we should see the same team on the field with Walcott on the bench. I would like to rest Adebayor and start Eduardo with RvP - Eduardo appear to do very well in the CL.
September 30th, 2007 at 7:42 am
Sagna is absolutely incredible. Very good signing by Arsene Wenger.
Freddie’s goal was definitely onsides. The fact that Kolo touched the ball has nothing to do with it. It has to do with Ljunberg’s position when the ball was played and he was even, which is onsides. He was robbed.
Noble’s challenge was a yellow card as there was no malicious intent but he was a bit reckless. It was just unfortunate that Hleb was injured.
We can’t sleep on Man City. They are not there by accident. Sven is a good manager and they’re playing good football. They are good players playing well despite still adapting to the physical demands of the league. Not sure that Samaras and Mpenza are the right answer, though.
Man Utd and Liverpool are behind us as they’re still struggling for goals. Liverpool are easy to defend against and ManU, without Saha in the side, are not balanced. You’ve got to respect that one goal has been enough to win them games but if a team scores a single goal against Man Utd, they’ve got a good chance at taking something from the game.
We can win the league this year if we remain clinical in front of goal. I’ve loved RvP’s arrogance since he was a 17 year old at Feyenoord but he’s got to respect the fact that Eduardo is a fantastic player. RvP can’t rest on his laurels.
September 30th, 2007 at 7:53 am
I agree. From the replay, Freddie was onside when the pass being released. That’s just one question i keep having in terms of the lineman, ‘cos no lineman can possibly watch the passer and the runner at the SAME time.
Even with the replay, one probably has to watch more than one time before getting it right.
TV technologic is inevitable for the future of the game.
Freddie is still very good making those blindside run. He did that often even last season when he’s with us, only difference is giving the same situation last season he often hit the ball straight into the ‘keeper, yet he somehow managed to score pass Almunia this time around!
September 30th, 2007 at 8:00 am
Looks like I am getting my prediction on Man City to finish 5th during the summer right. Though it’s early, Man City is doing what exactly Mourinho did the first season in charge of Chelsea - by staying tight at the back and grind out the result. And keeping the possession well.
It also proved that England’s problem previously was not Sven Ericksson.
City probably won’t win anything this season. but if they build on what they got next season, they do look like the most likely one to break into top 4, provided their Thai chairman won’t get arrested!
September 30th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
I’m not sure you can have TV technology for offsides. The flag goes up as soon as the decision is made and play stops - so at what point does the technology come in? If instead the officials wait to see what happens, what if Ljungberg is clean through, Almunia saves, then another West Ham player gets the ball passes it to a team mate and then scores? What if there was another 5 passes after that before West Ham score? It would get too confusing and frankly impossible to regulate.
Anyway, Ljungberg was definitely level when the ball was played, it has nothing to do with whether it bounced of Toure’s foot - West Ham had a perfectly legitimate goal disallowed. In that respect Arsenal were lucky.
September 30th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
I meant when offside decision results to a goal. Then video tech can allow the ref to review the decision.
In fact, I’d like a NFL style “challenge call”. In order not to let the game get interrupted too often, manager of each side are allowed to have 2 opportunities each game to “challenge” a referee decision. Be it red card, penalty or offside decision results to goal.
In order to cut short the reviewing process, the referee himself does not need to run towards the sideline and watch the video for review. Let’s the 4th offical to do it, he got nothing else to do anyway.
So the 4th official takes around 10 to 20 seconds review the call, then inform the referee the final decision.
The whole process won’t take more than 30 seconds, less than the amount of time takes a player laid down faking injury.
As mentioned, each manager has two opportunities to challenge the call. but if his first challenge being vetoed by the 4th official, he would lose the 2nd challenge right as well. This way, it’d make sure the managers wouldn’t abuse the challenging right.
It sound complicated now i m putting it. but i believe it’s as simple and easy as 1 2 3 if they really put it into particle. better than doing nothing and allow all those silly ref mistakes happened week in week out.
September 30th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
This is a must read - why Wenger and Arsenal are to be respected in so many ways…
http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2180175,00.html
@Fred - my bet is that France doesn’t qualify for Euro 2008.
re: Freddie’s “goal” - am I the only one who thinks he was offside? I think that not because of how the rule reads, but because of how most calls go that I see - his position at the time of the pass is much more often than not called offsides, rightly or wrongly.
September 30th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
If no part of your body is ahead of the defender when the pass is made then you’re onside. Sometimes you get it, sometimes you don’t - but the FACT is, Ljungberg was ONSIDE. If the officials were competent then the goal would have been given, but they’re not - they’re pretty hopeless most of the time.
You can’t say a player is offside on the basis that officials are always getting those decisions wrong half the time, the law states he is onside and that’s that.
Maybe you want Arsenal to win the title by not having any dodgy decisions go against them, but you can’t alter the facts. Arsenal got lucky. Anyone who thinks Ljungberg was onside is wearing the thickest rose tinted glasses ever or doesn’t understand the offside rule.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Danny, I think you mean “offside” in the first part of your last sentence…….
I personally think he was level and we got lucky….it’s Ok, as it balances all the other times we were unlucky…..too many to enumerate…..
September 30th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Everytime I open a newspaper these days Wenger is giving his innermost thoughts on football and the everything that comes with it. I can’t help thinking it’s because Arsenal are doing well and he’s in a good mood. I can’t imagine him doing these interviews if Arsenal were lagging in sixth or seventh. Anyway, long may it continue if it means Arsenal keep winning.
As for yesterday, I still think our central midfield is too weak physically and not imposing enough away from home. Tottenham’s central midfield are a bunch of pansies so I won’t include them but both Blackburn and West Ham were combative and we struggled I thought in both games in terms of picking up the loose balls etc. As great as Flamini has been I think I would prefer Diarra because he is more incisive and gifted physically. He can pick up these loose balls. This is just a small concern though and something to maybe look at further on down the line.
I echo the thoughts on Sagna. What a player. He has improved us by 10-15% and that improvment is making a big difference. Those little details like keeping the ball in play when West Ham are looking for a throw in are very significant.
September 30th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
I saw the replay of Ldjungberg, and he was definitely off-side. IIt was closer and tight but the deal is if you are aheafd of the “last” defender before the ball is released by your team mate it is offside. If your nose can sticks out an inch passed the last defender, you are technically offside before the ball is relaeased.
For Danny T, are you the DannyT that broke his leg playing with a former DC United player in a pickup game…..
David, NYC gunner fan since March 1996
September 30th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
No I’m not, I’ve never even been to America let alone played for DC United.
What replay of the Ljungberg incident did you watch by the way? Every replay I’ve seen on TV clearly show he was onside, which is backed up by every pundit and news report I’ve subsequently read too.
His nose wasn’t sticking out and neither was his pubic hair - and besides, the rules clearly state that attacking players should be given the advantage.
September 30th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
@ Danny T - no, I don’t have rose tinted glasses on. Second, I don’t appreciate your high-minded lecturing. I respect your opinions very much, and as a matter of fact, I search for your comments often because I have something to learn from them, but I don’t appreciate your sharped-edged tone, which keeps coming back from time to time. Please, stop it. I’m tired of it.
September 30th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
“Everytime I open a newspaper these days Wenger is giving his innermost thoughts on football and the everything that comes with it. I can’t help thinking it’s because Arsenal are doing well and he’s in a good mood.”
I think it was simply because someone else was interviewing him that’s all. Afterall, even AW is in a good mood, he won’t go and call a newspaper or magazine “come, come and interview me, I have a speech to make!”
September 30th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
btw, those innermost thoughts on football of AW (the link provided by thompson g) I think most of them are very spot on.
the man has a remarkable depth of insight and knowledge of the game football.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Andez - exactly. I have never read or heard a coach/manager of any team in any sport that has that depth of intelligence. No wonder these kids would run through a wall of fire in a gasoline suit for him.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
thompson gunner, if you don’t have on rose-tinted glasses then perhaps you truly don’t understand the offsides rule but that’s okay. Freddie was even and even means onsides. No doubt, we were lucky but sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good.
If you don’t understand the rule that’s fine but you can’t be all sensitive on this site, bro. We don’t do political correctness too well ’round here; it’s all about Arsenal football and we cut to the chase. We disagree and argue and talk a lot of trash. The sharp tone is how the Type-A’s talk in general and there are plenty on Arsenal America.
Please don’t get offended because most of us don’t care and you’ll lose your f*cking mind. Just get smart with the rules and you’ll see why you’re the only one who thought Freddie was offsides. Knowledge is power.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
joshuad - perhaps I don’t understand the rule. Fine. If even means onsides, then he was onside by the rule. No argument. My point in my original comment (poorly articulated) was that the position on that play is almost always called offside by the linesman - perhaps what I should have said is that the referees seem to me to be very conservative - tend to call a player offside when it is close instead of giving the advantage to the attacking player (a la Danny T’s reference to the rule). Personally, I wish they would be more consistent with the rule and give that advantage, not withstanding yesterday’s advantageous call to us.
And, you are correct - I shouldn’t care about the offenses - they don’t matter.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Disagree at #36. A discussion without sharp tone would still make a good discussion. Valid points do not need sharp tone to make it more valid. End of.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
@ dannyt, i dont think its fair to call the linesmen incompetent. the job is virtually impossible to get right consistently.
imagine having to track down a player with the ball to know exactly when he hits the pass AND at the same time you have to track the attacker or several attackers to keep tabs on their position the moment the ball is played AND at the same time running up and down the line to keep parallel to the last defender (because if you are not parrallel you will get it wrong very easily). AND all this is not taking into account players blocking your view.
now that is the task of the linesmen. a retired one once said that they guess or go on a hunch more than half the time.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
It depends where the initial pass comes from. I agree that if there is a great distance between the pass and the player that’s going through then it’s difficult, if not impossible for the ref to tell - but a 20 yard pass should be easy to deal with, especially if the benefit of the doubt is supposed to be given to the attacker. Personally I don’t think they’re trained properly and they’re too afraid to give decisions.
Anyone see Henry’s hatrick last night? Seems to play better without Ronaldinho in the team.
He was back to his usual self, strolling round the pitch pointing at people where to go, never tracking back - kissing the Barcelona badge too, read what you like into that.
Levante were abysmal though.
Messi is the star in that that team though - If there’s one player I’d love to see at Arsenal it’s him.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
To me, it looked like Ljungberg was onside. However, I don’t think it made a difference. If it was in added time then maybe West Ham would have felt hard done by. I would have backed our boys to score a winner if West Ham’s equaliser had counted. We would have raised our game.
It is true that goals change games. It is also true that there is no better team at scoring late goals than Arsenal.
Three points. Roll on the next game.
September 30th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
well to me he was OFF-SIDE! He’s nose definitely was across the line
Seriously… i think it was a close call - one that can go either way but if we follow the letter of the law and dont take into consideration the fact that the ball came off an arsenal player then my take is - his legs may have been onside but he wasnt.
Now it’s on to those of you who think I need glasses to try picking on me
September 30th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
In the spirit of beating dead horses,
“If no part of your body is ahead of the defender when the pass is made then you’re onside.” (Danny T quote)
My use of the pause button on a replay indicates to me that Freddie was off-side.
This debate (?) indicates to me that an instant replay rule may not make such decisions any more correct, because if there is a disparity of opinion based on our site members’ look at a replay (assuming you used a pause button), then is it going to be different at the ground? Room for error even with a replay (unless you are always cock-sure about your opinions).
Looking at it in real time, I agree with Fred - you just make your best guess and stick to it. I don’t see how a linesman could really be 100% sure on a play like that one.
I will say this, though, the number of camera angles used at NFL games provides some great views, however, the NFL rule on instant replay states (to the effect) that it must be pretty much beyond doubt (thus human interpretation remains).
September 30th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
The fact that you bring Toure into it invalidates your argument. Whether it touched him or not is completely irrelevant, you obviously don’t fully understand the offside rule.
Pick the bones out of that
September 30th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
Thompson, you are obviously not pressing pause at the moment the player passed the ball. Maybe you have a shitty recorder or maybe (more likely) you like to pause it a 1/4 second later to make yourself appear in the right.
I prefer to trust the BBC and Sky Sports, who both analysed it and proved Ljungberg was onside via better technology than you’ll ever have. My advice is, give up or get some glasses, or buy a better video/DVD player.
September 30th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
C’mon, Danny T — “(more likely) you like to pause it a 1/4 second later to make yourself appear in the right.” WTF??????????? That’s just an ass’ comment on an assumption of motivation involving an opinion that is different from yours (or of those you trust).
And, there is no “proof” involved here - it is still human judgment of a replay, no matter how convicing one thinks it is.
But, I digress. I bow to your infinite wisdom and experience in all such matters.
September 30th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
Perhaps you can tell why if there is no proof by video replay - no matter how convincing it is - why is it used in certain sports?
September 30th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
isnt this the same sky sports that a lot of us claim that they tend to see only the negatives about arsenal…. i bet the guys that do the motm (or whatever it’s called) also have access to this so-called great technology yet somehow only see what they want to see.
Let’s put it simply… a bunch of you saw Ljunberg onside, a few of us (lineman included) saw him OFF-SIDE!
I guess nothing (save perhaps God himself) will change either our views or the outcome of the game.
therefore: He was OFF-SIDE!!!!
September 30th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
You just want him to be offside because you want to believe Arsenal won fair and square.
If he was 10 yards onside and the linesman flagged offside you’d still agree with the linesman. Anything to validate your ridiculous opinion, which has been disproved by the BBC, Sky Sports and every single newspaper in Britain
September 30th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
That is a very good question.
I don’t really know the answer for sure, but I think that (in the case of the NFL) it was originally instituted as a result of pressure from coaches and the media (I’m speaking of the NFL) because the belief was that it would increase the number of “correct” calls.
I think it has greatly enhanced the decisions in the NFL, and I think that is the widely held opinion of those involved - thus, that is why it is still used there. I think I am correct in saying that instant replay in the NFL is widely accepted. But, honestly, I don’t think that anyone considers it proof - everyone involved still sees it as human interpretation of replay from many angles.
Sometimes, the officials’ interpretations of such replays in the NFL concludes that there is not enough certainity one way or the other (I can’t remember the word that is used by the NFL officials), and in those cases, the call made on the field during the play stands because it is recognized that the replay is not convincing enough, for one reason or another, to sustain or overturn the onfield decision. So, they will just revert back to the call made during play. But if it is convincing, then the official on the field will say so to either sustain or overturn the decision made during the play.
September 30th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
Whatever. But you can bet your last dollar that that had they used video replay the goal would have stood.
September 30th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
BTW, “wanting Arsenal to win fair and square”…
I’ll let hakyn speak for himself, but for my case, as a competitive golfer for many years, I truly understand the “rub of the green” (in golf - “when the ball is helped or hindered by a third party/object e.g. if the ball is going out of bounds and is bounced back in bounds by hitting a spectator or a tree”).
It is part of sport for officials’ incorrect calls to sometimes help and sometimes hurt your team - football, american football, baseball, basketball, etc. etc. If you don’t accept the rub of the green, you lose enjoyment of following your team and instead blame all L’s on the officials. I don’t. If you don’t accept the rub of the green, you turn into Sergio Garcia who blamed the flagstick for his U.S. Open loss. A pity. I hope he’s greatful the next time when the flagstick helps him win a tournament.
September 30th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
You can bet your own last dollar anyway you want.
September 30th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
I can bet my last dollar that the decision would have still ended in controversy if video replay had been used. And if he had been 10 yards on-side we wont be holding this discussion now would we?
September 30th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
You would have lost your last dollar then.
September 30th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
if i’m betting against you how come you have appointed yourself as the judge. If I were to judge I would also be oblige to say that that “You have lost your last dollar”
September 30th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Hey - he is the judge and jury of all of us. I just take my medicine like a good ol’ boy and keep plowin’ that field.
September 30th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
holy cow….u guys are arguing over this??? even on the westham forums they arent!
September 30th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
We can’t help ourselves… I guess we need another hobby…
A good segue, Fred. I think I’ll turn on the Eagles-Giants game to see how many instant replay videos are inconclusive, even with all that high-tech equipment, and then listen to the announcers’ differences of opinion of the same set of replays.
September 30th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
cant help it. I said i thought he was off-side, but DannyT not only thought he was on-side but that the rest of us who didnt see it as he do not only needed glasses but are also incompetent of making valid conclusions - glasses or not (”You just want him to be offside because you want to believe Arsenal won fair and square”).
I’ve got a mid-semester tuesday and I’m tired of reading… he’s provided me a good enough diversion.
and BTW, i still think Freddie was OFF-SIDE
September 30th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
Dont matter no more. We won.
October 1st, 2007 at 12:19 am
It wasnt the finest Arsenal game. I tried rewatching it and it was a rather glum encounter. Full credit to West Ham for mucking it up in their small midfield and breaking up our flow. But that was the great thing about it… we didnt get into much of a rhythm and we still managed to pull off a win.
I thought Freddy was onside. To me, he was level when the ball was played in, and for sure he was close enough that the referee should have played the offensive players advantage. In fact, I read last week that there was a meeting of premier referees, with the head ref instructing them not to call offsides if it was too close to tell. So we probably got away with one there. It was nice to see Freddy get a goal… and even nicer to see it wrongly disallowed! It was a nice finish… if only Ade could go to finishing school!
But to say the linesmen are inept is foolish. Have you ever refereed a game? Its not an easy call with the pace of the game, especially when its that close. And I dont care if the pass is a 30 yard pass or a 5 yard pass. Heck, we are having arguments on this forum after we have all seen the video in slow motion. If there isnt unanimous concensus after watching slow-mo, how in the world is a human being, who cant always be exactly on an even line with the play, possibly make the right calls all the time?
Hey, human decisions are just a part of the game, and part of what we have to discuss afterwards, and let it just be. Arsenal got a lucky break but thats just how it goes. I’m sure we’ll be moaning soon about a bad call, but hopefully it wont cost us points.
October 1st, 2007 at 12:48 am
I am surprised that we are discussing so much about the offside rule. The linesman’s job is very difficult, especially on close calls like this. Almost always, the benefit of doubt goes to the defensive side, although the rulebook says the opposite. Yes, it may not be the right call, but if roles were reversed and West Ham were defending, the decision would be the same - offside. Such decisions do balance out.
As for winning with some luck, yes, we are lucky. But hey, we will be unlucky in some other game. Remember the same game last season when we were denied a cast iron penalty for a foul on Hleb?
October 1st, 2007 at 4:46 am
The main purpose of the assistant referee is to determine if the ball goes out of bounds, into the goal, and call offsides. They help with other things but that’s their primary job and they need to get those calls right. One must use peripheral vision to get the offsides call right. It might be difficult sometimes but some of those guys are morons. Consider the offsides call when Ashton was like five yards onsides earlier in the game. I’m sorry but you’ve got to call those guys morons. Those calls are why people get confused.
One of the reasons players aren’t allowed to wear shirts or shorts that are similar in color is to make player identification possible using peripheal vision. Bottom line is we were lucky and if the goal had stood no one could be upset; except for me because why couldn’t Freddie do that shit for us anymore? F*cker.
The argument started because one guy didn’t understand the rule and didn’t appreciate how another explained it. A third guy came on because he either doesn’t understand it as well or just wanted to be funny.
3points, I didn’t say that a sharp tone was required but it was common in Type-A personalities and there are plenty of Type-A’s on Arsenal America; and because it’s more fun! Jeez, why is everybody so damned sensitive?
October 1st, 2007 at 5:35 am
@joshuad: What are Type-A personalities anyway?? And its not about being “politically correct” .. Its about respecting another viewpoint.. thats all. You can be firm and reject my points without insulting me. Insults.. fun or not which is a different matter alltogether do nothing but to reduce the potency of a good intelligent debate. So its simple..I say the facts…without the insults and I h ave fun as well. if people feel that you need to insult to have fun..then its their call. I DO NOT subscribe to that.sorry. Oh and let me know about Type-A..seriously
October 1st, 2007 at 8:53 am
Is it A for “Asshole”?
October 1st, 2007 at 9:39 am
perhaps… i need some clarification on the what’s off-side and what isnt then! I’ve taken the time to go over the rules at wikipedia and at bbc… bar one or two slight modifications doesnt look like it’s changed that much since I was a kid.
I didnt insult any one here and I’ll try never to… so DannyT if I pissed you off I’m sorry. That said maybe someone ought to clarify what is off side on this site so that we the changes of this argument happening in future is greatly reduced.
October 1st, 2007 at 9:54 am
so that the chance of this argument happening in the future is greatly reduced
October 1st, 2007 at 10:04 am
lol@Danny .. just looked up the Type a thing .. apparently Type A ppl are overly aggressive n stuff. A quick Google brings it up no time at all.
October 1st, 2007 at 10:52 am
@LDE - thank you. My involvement on this yesterday was that I don’t appreciate being insulted - it is not required for discussion on this site, Type A’s or not. Danny is one of the most informed people on this site, which is why I respect his opinion, but I certainly don’t respect his manner yesterday in any way, shape or form. I appreciated joshuad calling me too sensitive, and I agreed, but insults are not necessary. There is plenty of room for differences of opinion, even on replays. Coach Ed addressed that the best.
October 1st, 2007 at 10:56 am
Now that we got West Ham out of the way, I am expecting nothing less than four wins out of the next four games before we face Liverpool and ManU.
October 1st, 2007 at 10:57 am
Looks like we could be missing Gallas, Eduardo, Song, Lehman, Rosicky, Hleb, Flamini, Diaby and Adebayor for the game at Steau. The last four on that list are questionable, so one or two of them may be available.
Perhaps it will look like this:
Almunia
Sagna Toure Senderos Clichy
Eboue Gilberto Fabregas Walcott
Bendtner Van Persie
Not a bad looking lineup. Perhaps this team is a bit deeper than I thought.
October 1st, 2007 at 11:25 am
First of all Hakyn, you did not “piss me off” - it takes a lot more than an Arsenal chat room to piss me off. Second, Thompson - I don’t remember saying anything insulting, other than you might have a shitty video/DVD recorder. I promised a few weeks ago not to trade insults again on this site, and don’t believe I have done - correct me if I’m wrong.
I wouldn’t say I was aggressive, I just don’t suffer fools gladly. The whole discussion about offside had nothing to do with whether Arsenal deserved to win or not (because they did), rather that the opinion Ljungberg was offside flew in the face of 95% of the board’s opinions, that of Sky Sports and the BBC’s ultra-sophisticated technology, plus every newspaper in Britain, and Arseblog - the most biased Arsenal website in the world.
It seems to me that these people were just arguing for the sake of it. Either that or they still don’t understand the offside rule.
October 1st, 2007 at 11:27 am
Good thing of this team is the “gap” in terms of quality among the 1st teamers and the 2nd tiers isn’t that big.
And many of the 2nd tiers offer a different dimension to the team (such as Eboue and Walcott offer different style of play from Hleb and Rosicky…. Bendtner is also different from Adebayor… Gilberto is different from Flamini so and so).
October 1st, 2007 at 11:40 am
and since when has the fact that the “world whole” thinks something makes it right?
The whole world thought at a time that the world was flat… heck the “whole world” thought that Saddam actually had weapons of mass destruction.
I said i thot it was off-side, i still think so! I’ve even taken the liberty of reading the off-side rule all over again today and I see no reason therein to change my point of view.
Since I didn’t piss you off I take back my apology especially in light of the fact that while you didnt insult me you have dont suffer fools - wonder if there’s a better way of insulting someone
October 1st, 2007 at 11:59 am
Only naive buffoons thought Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, I rest my case.
October 1st, 2007 at 12:19 pm
your case just went south as you didnt say the whole world didnt think so Saddam had weapons but that only naive buffoons thought so. In other words, the “whole world” is a buffoon when they either dont share your views or you are pretty sure that they are wrong anyway. However, when the “whole world” agrees with you though, the rest of the people who dont are fools!
I respect the fact that you think he was ON-SIDE and that your “the whole world” thinks so. But that doesnt in any way stop me from voicing my conviction that he was OFF-SIDE. That’s all I’ve done here and the only reason we are having this argument is that you are bent on making me cower b4 your superior intelligence (not that I dispute your superior intelligence in football matters)
I however cant stomach the fact that my sincerely seeing something different from what “the rest of the world does” makes me more stupid than you.
October 1st, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Just got back in town, so I know I’m joining late, but I’m glad we got the full 3 points. It was a game I really thought would be a draw. I agree with what many have written that this is the type of game we would have lost last year. It’s good to see this team developing the type of mental toughness required to compete for silverware. Hopefully we can continue this great start.
October 1st, 2007 at 1:45 pm
A for asshole is pretty funny but not a requirement.
lde, the only one to mention insults was thompson gunner and he agreed he took it too seriously. The only person I’ve personally insulted is that dkqgunner guy last week when I called him a spurs fan (the worst possible insult) and that florida gunner dude from like two years ago but he was truly an assclown.
Can we please cut this “I’m offended” and “you hurt my feelings” bullshit out. This is beginning to make me feel all funny; like I just walked into a gay bar naked or something. Everyone blow out real hard and allow your testicles to descend into the sack. Let’s cut the sissy-boy shit out and argue football like men for heaven’s sake. Don’t bring your emotional baggage to Arsenal America. I’m sure there are other sites for that.
October 1st, 2007 at 2:00 pm
@joshuad: With all due respect…its not emotional baggage..its just mutual respect…that is all…anyway I guess we all know where to draw the line so I’ll leave it at that..I guess that as long as we keep it objective on this site…which is why I love it in the first place..we wont need to discuss insults and emotions n the like….so lets quit arguing about all this .. agree to disagree when we dont agree… and get back to the ARSENAL
October 1st, 2007 at 2:06 pm
I agree with Hakyn, the Majority is not always right, just because 95% of the media thinks that Freddie was onside doesn’t make it so. Are you informed by your own observations or do you wait for the media to give you your opinion.
October 1st, 2007 at 2:15 pm
I wait for the media to prove it via video technology, which they did.
October 1st, 2007 at 2:27 pm
Well I rely on my own 20/20 vision and back myself up with the media and their technology. If 95% of the football world thinks it was one way and I disagree then I’d honestly have to open my mind up to the fact that I might be wrong.
But we all know that I’m never wrong so I just fed you guys a line of crap
.
October 1st, 2007 at 2:30 pm
Even though I am right, the fact that we’re discussing this and not another Philippe Senderos abomination is a blessing.
October 1st, 2007 at 2:58 pm
If you read my previous posts you’ll see that I do not dispute the fact that I may be wrong. I just voiced my opinion which is that he was OFF-SIDE: SIMPLE!
Enough has been said about this so I’m letting it go. Hope we win in East Europe (even if it involves another such controversial decision)