The plight of the American Arsenal supporter is not always an easy one. Despite the advent of the Internet and satellite television, it’s not uncommon, when one pontificates about this passion, to be greeted by a quizzical look, or “So they’re a soccer team, right?” Even English Gooners occasionally treat their American counterparts as ugly bastard stepchildren trying to steal their inheritance.
Being an Arsenal supporter is its own reward. Meeting other football fans reminds us that we are part of a global community, while Arsenal America is a lifeline for American Gooners. As the San Francisco Branch Manager, I’ve met (online and off) Arsenal supporters from all walks of life and always been the richer for the experience. One such Gooner I’ve been corresponding with, is Staff Sergeant Jared C. Dugger of the United States Marine Corps, currently serving in Iraq.
Jared began folloing Arsenal while stationed in Okinawa during the 1997/1998 season, saying, I was lucky enough to see Adams, Dixon, Bould, Winterburn, Overmars, Bergkamp, Platt, Wrighty, et al win the “double”. Talk about timing!
Jared’s first deployment in Iraq was in 2005 an he remained there for most of the year. Eventually he was given two weeks of R&R. He knew Highbury was coming down in less than a year, so his decision to go see Arsenal, was as he put it, totally a no-brainer! With his leave approved, he booked a room and arranged tickets for Sunderland and a Sparta Prague Champions League match.
Despite being an Arsenal America member, Jared was unaware that a contingent of AA members would be in London to see Arsenal at the very same time. He managed to meet up with them, tour the stadium, join them for matches and the all-important pints at the pub! He remembers fondly, that it was an incredible trip!
As if the trip wasn’t memorable enough, Jared found himself featured in a match programme article. He has this framed alongside ticket stubs and programmes from the matches he attended, along with a match day scarf. Despite the ribbing from long-time Arsenal supporters about getting in the programme after his first match, he considers it the coolest souvenir ever.
Fast forward to 2007 and Jared is still in Iraq. Initially stationed at Al Asad, which he describes, as a gigantic very safe airbase, he was then ordered to Hadittha, a much smaller base in the heart of the city, and finally to the K-3 oil refinery in August. Jared says, he prefers working daily with the Iraqis, going on convoys and patrols, and going “outside the wire”, instead of sitting around the big safe base, albeit with satellite TV.
He follows Arsenal through the Arsenal America site, BigSoccer, Soccernet, and others, and has been able to stay pretty current on the team’s progress. He occasionally meets other footie fans, including a Brit who grew up on the same block as Ian Wright. Says Jared, For some reason known but to God, he supports Hammers, but he was thoroughly amazed to find not only a US Marine who was a soccer fan, but someone who could rattle off lineups and score lines from five, ten years ago and has Wrighty as a MySpace friend.
As to Arsenal’s league rivals, Jared says, there’s a Company Commander here who’s a raging footy fanatic, and although he’s very loyal to ManUshited, we swap friendly emails and news about the Premiership every now and again, and of course, talk smack to each other, especially the way this season’s shaping up.
When he’s out and about, Jared often will see men and boys of all ages wearing shirts from some club or other - Barca, ManUre, Chelski, Real, and Arsenal. He says, Very few are knowledgeable and loyal supporters, but I take time (and an interpreter) to chat with them for a while any time we meet. It cheers me up some and actually helps our mission here and builds a relationship with the people.
Jared doesn’t get many opportunities to watch Arsenal matches. The Armed Forces Network channels are great for NBA, MLB, NFL, and college football, but not so much for the Premiership or other footie. The interpreters and Iraqi Police he works with, have different sports channels, mostly covering the Asian League and internationals. Still, he’s been in the right place at the right time twice this season, and watched Arsenal play Fulham and Sunderland.
Like the majority of Iraq’s population, Jared followed the Iraqi team’s progress in the Asian Cup, and the Final was the only other match he’s been able to watch live. He was crowded into a small room with a dozen native Iraqi interpreters, men and women, aged 20 to 50.
Remembering that joyous day, he says, When Younes scored the goal, I damn near went deaf from all the screaming – and I was doing quite a lot myself. When the fulltime whistle blew, we all cheered again, and there were some grown men crying. For a few weeks it definitely created a sense of unity among the people here, and I was really glad to have witnessed it. As an aside, all our superiors had been briefed the day before about the Cup Final, and to expect random celebratory fire into the air from AK-47s during the hours the match would be played. After it was over, there was plenty - but our patrols all knew what was happening and joined in the celebrations (and asked folks to put away the guns). It was a brilliant day, and I’ll never forget it.
I wondered if being a football fan had given him a better understanding of their joy. Hell yes. I wasn’t crying with them at the end, but I could certainly understand how they felt. They went through enough trouble just fielding a team and keeping a decent manager, not to mention the initial infighting among teammates based on politics and religion. For them to even make the Final, much less win the thing - it was truly miraculous. I knew it would be a big lift to the people of Haditha and Iraq as a whole. After hearing the questions from people in the streets here about the progress we’re trying to make, it was SO GREAT to see the people point at their soccer team and say “Look, that worked for our country! Why can’t our government start doing that?” Aside from the pride and happiness it brought, it also got people fired up about national unity again, and that’s something we (the military) were VERY pleased to see.
Jared has four more months in Iraq, after which he’s looking forward to getting reacquainted with Guinness and watching as many matches as possible live. When I last heard from him, he’d just returned from leave, and I asked him for parting words to his fellow Gooners who might be reading this, and he says, With apologies to Joliet Jake, it’s November, we’re top of the table with a game in hand. I just drank beer for two weeks, there’s four months left until I’m home, and I’m wearing sunglasses. Silverware in May? Hit it.
• • • •
Author’s note: Mention Iraq and you’ll get a lot of varied opinions. My intent was not to convey a particular political view or commentary on the war, but simply to relate the experiences of an Arsenal supporter that were unlike my own. After all, despite our differences, we’re all Gooners at heart! So let’s raise a pint to “by far the greatest team, the world has ever seen!” Thanks again Jared! Watch this space for more Gooner profiles.
53 Responses to “Veterans Day Profile: Our Man In Iraq”
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November 11th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Mark - thank you for a wonderful post.
Jared - cheers to you, and may you return home safely and have a long life being a Gooner!
Being part of something bigger (being a supporter of Arsenal F.C. through this Site) provides a way for people to connect in ways that otherwise would never happen.
The late Kurt Vonnegut called such connections “granfalloons.” No matter Kurt’s intent, human beings need connections (Kurt, after all, admitted to being a “Hoosier”). This article was a very human one, and reminds us that a Site like this can be very important to people, because it provides that needed vehicle.
Thank you.
November 11th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
I have a feeling Jared is almost DESTINED to be a Gooner! with his knack of finding himself in the “right place” at the “right time”!
Of Iraq’s Asian Cup victory, it was indeed a touching story. It is Iraq’s version of “Anfield 89″. Nobody gave them a prayer, they prevailed nonetheless. The magical moment of football.
November 11th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Thats a fantastic story, and precisely what being an Arsenal supporter is all about, especially for American supporters, who sometimes have to find others to enjoy the passion and the pride with. Its not always easy to get that understanding.
Yes, I’ve been away from the site for a while. No, its not been what many of you might think… that I dissapeared with our success! Hardly. Sometimes life just kicks you around a bit, and you realize that sport and football, while wonderful, are not the only things, nor the most important. We all know Arsenal are very important nonetheless… but life can and will often get in the way.
Let me just say that I have seen most of the matches, and I am absolutely amazed at our play. Have enjoyed the season immensely. We are playing the beautiful football that all supporters enjoy watching, not just Arsenal supporters. I didn’t think it was possible, but so far so good, and long may it last. Fabregas has been brilliant. I didn’t think he could score goals… boy has he proved that thought wrong. He’s been magnificent, along with many others.
Fred, you were right on this team. LDE, you were right on this team. Josh, you were right on this team. Andez, you were right on this team. Danny, you were right on Wenger. He “is” god, and shouldn’t be doubted or questioned… well, lets not get crazy! He gets carte blanche after the start to this season. There are lots of positive Pete’s I didn’t mention… and you all were 100% right so far, and I was wrong being so negative and doubting. You live and learn.
Enjoy this. Its great stuff, this Arsenal team.
Cheers
Stag
November 11th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Funny story as that I started becoming an Arsenal fan by playing FIFA on playstation while I was stationed in Okinawa on Kadena AFB. Must be the water =)
November 11th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Hey neat story about Jared. Shows again that football adds a little bit of spice & seasoning to life no matter where your path takes you.
Stay well Jared.
Welcome back Stag.
November 11th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Stag, u sure hell come back with a bang!
November 11th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
Great story. Always good to have a bit of perspective. Yeah, I went into Philly last weekend to watch the Man U.- Arsenal match and didn’t know a soul there. Didn’t stop me from entering into conversations with quite a few Gunners- building relationships in a moment. Hope the footie chat continues well in Iraq for you Jared.
Good timing on the return from your tour- you will hit the end of season when I expect Arsenal still to be in the thick of a title battle.
November 11th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
War sucks particularly if your fighting in it. It must be sweet to have the distraction of Arsenal at times.
Our Canadian boys are stationed in Afghanistan and I think on them all the time and what they’re doing for that country on our behalf. I remember!
Welcome back Stag!
November 11th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Hey GunningSteve, i go there for every game. You going tomorrow for the Reading game?
November 11th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
I go to the Dark Horse by the way
November 11th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Yeah, welcome back Stag.
Just remember, Denilson is extremely talented and has played great in every game that Arsenal won. Don’t bother to watch his performances to analyse what he actually he did, but just ingrain it into your head that he very talented but inconsistent, so when he’s even more anonymous than usual, he’s got an excuse.
Your good to go!
November 11th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
It’s only November yet we are in to a ding dong battle of having to match ManU win for win. With ManU having played first and putting points on the board, our team is being tested. It’s good stuff, this is what title campaigns are made of, like two boxers trading blows until eventually one comes out stronger.
Reading are hardly a frightening proposition, yet playing them away brings a little more uncertainty to the contest. With most of the first team being rested midweek, we are well positioned going into this game. The draw against SP may prove a blessing, shaking away any misplaced complacency.
I’d like to see Ade score again, his all-round play is good, but strikers need goals to maintain their confidence and we need goals from our main sources.
November 11th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Soccercw888- I went to Fado’s- 15th & Locust. No Cover. Was at Dark Horse for the CC Final last year. I think I was put onto Fado’s by Mike, our erstwhile Arsenal America president. Unfortunately I work in New Brunswick so a trip to Philly mid-afternoon is impossible during the week. I am thinking of going to the Golden Rail to cheer the team on- international break is a killer…At least I can look to van Persie’s return come the Wigan game!
I watch FSC televised matches at home- allows me to educate the next generation of Arsenal fans- my kids… Otherwise, a whole bunch of us should meet up. I know I’m not the only Philly-area Gunner!
November 11th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
Well if anyone goes to Dark Horse to watch games, my aim sn is soccercw888. Sorry to continuously go off topic lol
November 12th, 2007 at 1:57 am
Cheers Stag … good to see you back .. and feeling good about the Arsenal for a change.
Mazza@#11: Give it a rest..will you about Denilson. Its getting absurd..its almost as if you have a personal thing with the guy.
November 12th, 2007 at 6:34 am
Chill, LDE, it’s not really about Denilson, it’s more of a reflection of the stupidity of some people here and the herd mentality that abounds. Nice to see you missed the point and proved mine at the same time.
November 12th, 2007 at 7:15 am
Well done Jared, and Happy Veterans Day from LSA Anaconda, Balad, Iraq. I have to use the same methods to follow the Gunners- Arsenal America has been a revelation for me on this deployment, my second. Our Air Force weather sergeant will be replaced next month by a Sp**rs fan of Irish descent, so needless to say he will get an earful from me when he arrives. He’s a nice guy, and I kind of hate it for him, but what the hell….we all make choices.
I won’t be going on R&R until May, so hopefully I’ll get to watch a title-clinching match from the Stadium of Light on 11 May…. Come on you Gunners!
Charles Bowery
Lieutenant Colonel, U.S. Army
November 12th, 2007 at 7:16 am
Denilson only had 3 starts of the season, I haven’t watched enough games from him to tell how good he really is, despite he already scored twice as a midfielder in that 3 starting appearances.
Denilson was discovered by our chief scout Steve Rowley, who had to climb a fence in order to watch him. And it didn’t take long for Rowley to decide he’s the real deal.
Rowley seems to be with Arsenal forever. This is also the guy who discovered Tony Adams. Surely he should know a thing or two about a player we don’t know right?
November 12th, 2007 at 7:24 am
He is very, very poor off the ball. That’s one thing I noticed straight away. His game doesn’t hurt the opposition.
Anyway, I wasn’t trying to spark another tedious Denilson tit-fot-tat, I was updating Stag on the dynamics of the site.
November 12th, 2007 at 8:31 am
That’s strange. I’m supposed to be in Al Asad right now but I had a knee reconstruction in August. I’m grounded until the late winter or early spring when I should be fit enough to fly again. Jared, if you see any Army guys then they’re probably my guys doing evac.
Also strange, in 2005 we were in Balad. I had to go the whole year with no Arsenal footie. It sucked pretty bad. That’s when I started posting on here pretty regularly as joshuad instead of an anon. You guy’s comments kept me straight until I got back home. But I came back with a bad habit, posting on this site essentially every day. I check this site as much as I check my email.
This site, obviously, helps soldiers/gooners keep it together when we’re gone away from the family and the tele. I’ll be watching the games about a month late starting early next year based on an arrangement I have with my wife as we’ll swap two hard drives devoted to recording Arsenal football. Arsenal America is our stop gap. You guys keep it up and Happy Veteran’s Day.
November 12th, 2007 at 9:12 am
@Mazza: I mean .. there’s a fine line between arrogance and self-confidence don’t u think? Herd mentality — If u were trying to make a point why did you need to make a point with denilson in it..YET AGAIN?? Didnt think it was very subtle at all…whats subtle and satirical in repeating the same thing one million times and then being smug about it? Anyway I think this thread should get the respect it deserves — though I’m not from the USA so I’ll just shut it and hope that you shut it too without trying to appear intelligent for the nth time.
November 12th, 2007 at 9:13 am
As for the main topic; that’s a great story. This site is certainly very special in that sense.
There seems to be quite a military theme around here which is quite apt when you think of Arsenal’s humble beginnings.
November 12th, 2007 at 9:24 am
LDE, it’s a football site with a frank exchange of opinions. We’ve gone over this before; people take comments far too seriously.
This whole Denilson thing started when someone took offense to my comment that he did not deserve the praise lavished upon him or something. Pretty unoffensive in my opinion. Then someone, either you, Kiwi, or someone else, will try and nitpick because my supposed arrogance winds them up and they want to be bring me down to a peg or two. Then they end up doing the exact same thing I’m accused of doing. They end up being just a big a smartass as me.
As I’ve said, try and look at the content not the tone. I’m interested in debating about Arsenal; not having childish spats.
November 12th, 2007 at 9:36 am
Personally I feel no warmth towards anyone who makes a career out of killing people for oil, Arsenal fan or otherwise.
Should be interesting tonight, hopefully Reading will play as poorly at the back as we have come to expect this season.
Will treat Stag’s re-emergence with caution, but always willing to give someone a second chance.
November 12th, 2007 at 9:41 am
JoshuaD- are you assigned to a MEDEVAC unit from Germany or from the States?
November 12th, 2007 at 9:58 am
I don’t think Stag will post as often as he did. Primarily because if he does post with any sort of regularity he will invariably get pilloried from pillar to post again from the same people who called longingly for his return ;^) Not including Danny of course, who never made any such plea.
November 12th, 2007 at 10:23 am
sometimes what u get is exactly what u dish out. I am sure when Stag starts to talk with a bit more sense, he will be getting a far more sensible response.
November 12th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Me, talk with sense?
Come on Andez… asking a bit much, aren’t you?
You’ll likely get a similar passionate opinion from me… thats just the way it works!
November 12th, 2007 at 10:52 am
DannyT, Veterans Day is an American holiday celebrated to remember veterans everywhere who have made a sacrafice (many the ultimate sacrafice) to ensure freedom worldwide. These types of people allow you freedoms ranging from talking on an Arsenal America site to allowing your ass the freedom to Sprechen English and not Deutche. Your tone is a bit surprising considering most British people I’ve come in contact with are very respectful of these sort of things. And just so you know, I’m a medical evacuation pilot, which means I save people; Americans, British, Iraqis, and any other nationality that I can save.
November 12th, 2007 at 11:04 am
Stag will talk. He just needed a break from all the hostilities. Some of you were on his ass pretty hard.
He strongly felt a certain way, got it wrong, held his hand up and apologized; what else is there to do? DannyT was willing to give stag a second chance and so should everyone else. Personally, I just wanted him to realize we still had a very good team here and now he knows.
I’m glad to have you back, stag. It was getting boring around here. I started pissing people off by calling them “pansies” and “overly-sensitive” just to keep the spice on this site. A few people retaliated but it wasn’t with the same venom that they attacked you with. I started the “Bring Back Stag133″ campaign but it failed, miserably. I guess that means I can forget about ever being US President. Cheers.
@HeliGunner, I’m stationed in Germany.
November 12th, 2007 at 11:27 am
@Joshuad
It simply doesn’t wash with me. Everyone is equal, war is war. Veterans murder in the name of their country, but that’s what all the other countries are doing anyway. It’s simply people killing people.
You’d think we’d have the intellect by now to realise that killing each other for an idea is both idiotic and counter-productive. I have no pride in my “country” - I find the whole philosophy of being proud of where I was born absurd, I had absolutely no choice and it’s pretty obvious through everyday living that my neighbour/ govrnment is not interested in helping me in the slightest. I would certainly not entertain the idea of fighting for the immoral philosophies that governments dream up, and therefore have no respect for people who do.
If someone died for their country, tough shit. They didn’t do it for you, they did it for their own misguided ideological reasons and even if they didn’t could have easily refused. They gave you no real freedom anyway, you are still at war (Iraq/Afghanistan), except it’s a chicken-shit one.
November 12th, 2007 at 11:30 am
stag, you are among the first ppl i know on this site. so i think u know what i meant. don’t take it the wrong way.
November 12th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
DannyT, I believe your frustration should be directed toward your government; the elected officials who have made decisions on your behalf. While many of their choices are less than stellar that has nothing to do with what today is all about.
It takes a remarkable person to voluntarily put himself in harms way to defend people they don’t even know. Today we pay tribute to those who have done just that. I’ll try and eliminate the political element.
About a month ago there was a young woman who had a dispute with a man outside of a nightclub. The man began to brutally stab her twenty-three times. There were several dozen people present but no one came to the young woman’s aid. She died from her injuries. This is a true story that happened last month like ten minutes from my house.
The question is, of the people you know, how many would have the moral character to help this young woman? Would you have the courage to put yourself in harms way to try and save a woman that you don’t know? It’s easy to say you would if it were your daughter or wife but what about somebody else’s wife? Wouldn’t you want someone to help your daughter?
Veterans in combat do that shit every day (put themselves in harms way). It’s not about the political agendas of certain officials but far more personal. If a woman decides to go to work then they should be able to without the fear of some moron blowing up her bus or flying a plane through her building because they think it’s wrong that women are allowed to make money. Veterans try their best to ensure that liberty for their people.
November 12th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
First of all, I’m not frustrated, don’t know where you get that from. Second, they’re not remarkable people, they’re usually misguided or supremely unintelligent people. They go to war for the thrill of it, and they have this absurd notion that their country is worth fighting for - whatever that means. Army recruits are mostly made up of societies misfits and dumb teenagers who failed at school, or didn’t go to school, or can’t get a job.
These kids are usually born in poor, neglected, jobless areas and badly educated by schools and their parents - I mean what parent in their right mind encourages their child to join the army?
It’s the dregs of the society doing the fighting, and at the top end giving the orders are the upper-class brainwashed morons born into regal families.
The elected officials do not represent the people as you might assume - except in middle America where they’re intrinsically nationalistic, racist, religious lunatics. Over here, 1 million people marched in London against the Iraq war but Blair still sent the troops anyway. So don’t fool yourself that you live in a democracy and they act on your behalf. Especially in America, where the government don’t even act on their own behalf but the major oil companies and conglomerates behalf.
It’s people like you who fall for the political propaganda e.g. (the weapons of mass destruction that don’t exist) time and time again and keep this ridiculous circus going.
So yeah, if I’m truthful I really look at the idiot that this post is about with utter contempt.
November 12th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Wow, Danny. I thought some of your views has been off-base but you only prove yourself naive if not worse in your latest posts. People who volunteer to serve in the armed forces do it for many reasons. Some others do indeed, think it beneath themselves. But I know plenty of v. intelligent people who serve. Thank you to vets who protect even those who don’t appreciate it. I do…
November 12th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
It really depends what you consider intelligent doesn’t it? There’s the intelligence of reading and learning from books and people, which anyone fool can do if motivated enough, and then, more importantly, there’s intellectual/emotional intelligence - learning to think for yourself sanely and rationally and not relying on others telling you what you should do and think every minute of the day throughout your life.
As for naive, there’s no-one more naive than these expendable soldiers who haven’t a clue, or the brain cells, as to the what they’re fighting for, don’t even get adequate tools to do their job, and when they’re dead have their families often lied too and events covered up, with maximum effort given towards measily compensation offered to those that come back with limbs blown off etc. I’ve never seen such hopelessly naive people in my life as soldiers and their dumb families.
November 12th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Andez, I was completely joking. I will likely say some passionate things that others don’t like. That won’t change.
Danny, you aren’t going to win over or convince anyone of your beliefs towards war or the military. You have your opinions, political or other… thats cool. But I remember you saying something about the military previously as well. Its out of bounds on this site. You don’t degrade or talk poorly about the military, calling them names,etc… its simply not appropriate on the site.
These folks are doing their duty… in harms way for the people of their country… in many cases risking their lives and limbs, literally. You don’t respect that, thats your prerogative. But most people don’t want to hear your rants on this issue. Not on this site. Wrong place to vent your views on this.
If you don’t like that the story was put on here, especially for Veteran’s Day… you shouldn’t really comment on it. Its easier for us all that way.
You said your peace. Let it go.
November 12th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
We live in a far from perfect world. We need men who are prepared to commit their lives to the forces.
November 12th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
btw stag, good to have u back. positive or negative, the truth is we all suffered together the past few years. so i hope by the end of the season we will share some joy together!
November 12th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
I’m currently at work and cant watch the match, is FSC showing a replay today?
November 12th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
enuff of the political jibes, this is arsenal america and we should talk about football and arsenal fc, esp arsenal FC. Political comments or commentators should move to Rush Limbaugh’s site or somewhere else. Good luck Jared and come home safe.
November 12th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
Wow, I am surprized that Jared is still in Iraq. I had a fun time chatting with with him during the Arsenal America tour in 2005 for those Sparta Prague and Sunderland games. But if memory serves me, he was supposed to have returned to the States few months after that November 05 trip.
November 12th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
This story is about the guy who follows Arsenal despite everything else that is going on in his life. In this case it is Iraq and the military. For others, it could be bereavement, divorce, getting fired, alcoholism. You don’t have to agree with the soldier in Iraq who struggles to see matches, the alcoholic in West London who sobers up to get into matches or whatever. Sometimes it is interesting to hear about how they follow Arsenal.
November 12th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
DannyT, you’re being very disrespectful to soldiers on Veteran’s Day. Just because you don’t have the moral fibers or convictions to make such a sacrifice you put others down. What makes you better than any one else? What do you know about Jared to say that he’s an idiot? What do you know about any soldier other than what you saw on TV? You’re talking out the side of your mouth when you really don’t know shit about what soldiers do.
Really dude, if someone grows up poor does that make them stupid? Are you having a laugh? Let me shoot your stereotypes to hell; I’m not rich but I’m hardly poor. I’m educated, I know what I’m doing in the military, and my parents didn’t encourage me to be a soldier. This is something that I want to do; be a soldier.
I have the personal courage and fortitude to put myself in harms way to save the lives of people I don’t even know. Does that make me a fucking idiot or make you a selfish prick? Lord knows the world doesn’t need anymore selfish assholes. What I do know is what it’s like to be a soldier, do you? Really, what can a man armed with only an argument say to a man with an experience?
November 12th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
So being a soldier requires moral fiber and convictions? What a twisted statement.
As a human being I feel I have a responsibility to myself and humankind. Part of that responsibly is living with truth and clarity and not being influenced as easily as you obviously have been by those who have succeeded in manipulating you.
It takes a lot more courage to live with integrity and fly against popular opinion than be a sheep and pander to whatever you deem society to expect from you.
Maybe you want to be a soldier because it makes you feel wanted, respected, appreciated - is that courage, is that sacrifice? No, it’s selfishness. Am I expected to believe you are altruistic, if you were you wouldn’t be a soldier. Try thinking a little deeper and a little bit more honesty about what you do and for whom you do it.
My mind is not corrupted by divisiveness. I see all human beings as equal no matter where they come from. To me, ALL war is abhorrent and unjustified and has led to the deaths of millions upon millions of innocent people in the name of what? An idea, a philosophy, a country. THAT is pure selfishness. And you my friend have lived your life serving that. Grow up. You destroy life, you don’t enhance it, protect it, nurture it - everything you do is destructive and totally futile. The whole movement that you are a part of is a great big killing machine.
What the world doesn’t need is WAR and those who partake in it. If there more like me and less like you we would live a lot more peaceful a life, without fear and without prejudice. There would be no requirement for sacrifice.
November 13th, 2007 at 4:33 am
To put yourself in harms way to help another human being or group of people is what requires moral fibers and conviction. You don’t have to be a soldier to do that.
Living with the truth means recognizing that the heart of man is the wickedest thing on this planet. The truth is there are people out there who want to hurt you simply because they despise your very existence. The truth is if there were no armies then Hitlers, Bin Ladens, and Husseins would reign supreme. Fortunately, for the free world, you’re not the one responsible for making that decision. The truth is the freedom that you enjoy was not free but many paid the ultimate price to ensure that you don’t speak German today. There are many who have the audacity to take what’s yours and do you harm. The presence of a military curves that audacity.
Don’t get me wrong, DannyT. Nothing would be nicer than for everyone to just get along and sing songs and dance in the streets. In a perfect world there would not be a need for a military. But that’s not the world we live in. No one in their right mind wants to go to war as I know better than you that it’s a terrible thing. But to call anyone who’s unfortunate enough to have to perform that duty an idiot makes you an ideal candidate for the reproach you’ve received from other members. You’re very ungrateful.
If you take away the army then the world would regress to a primal “Survival of the Fittest” state. To think otherwise makes you the idiot. If you think soldiers want to fight wars then you’re an even bigger idiot. Being naive is believing that everyone has good intentions and there is no need for a military.
November 13th, 2007 at 8:39 am
No, we don’t live in a perfect world - but it’s your responsibility to build the world you want to live in even if you don’t see the benefits of peace in your lifetime. Humans have being fighting ideological wars for thousands of years, do you really think your activities are going to lead to harmony - one day?!
The future is now, what you are doing is affecting hundreds of thousands of innocent people. When a child is blown up in a truck bomb in Iraq you are directly responsible, you are a cog in the wheel. A murderer - you have blood on your hands. Have you ever asked yourself what you are doing there, what you are fighting for? Do you think it’s for freedom? Freeing the oppressed, protection your neighbour. It’s about oil and always has been. You are killing for the wealth of financial corporations.
Walk down the street, the vast majority of people do not have a “wicked heart”. They may be misguided, afraid, insecure and very easily manipulated - like you are, but not intrinsically violent. If you change, the whole world changes. If you do nothing it stays the same.
Stand on your own two feet and stick your fingers up to those who seek to manipulate you for their own means. Do you think the government gives a fuck about you? Trust me, you are a very dispensable pawn and very naive if you think otherwise.
The world is a very different place to how it was 50 years ago, information is everywhere. You have total freedom to find out what is really going in, to educate yourself - falling for military propaganda in this day and age is inexcusable. You are not living in North Korea but America. Your blind patriotism is a gift to the unscrupulous few who govern you.
What a life to have lived, looking back when you are seventy and realising all you ever did was kill and murder in the name of an idea or philosophy. What a waste. The only thing that will have changed when you are old is that there will be a brand new war with a brand new name. Probably the same war you are fighting now but in different clothes.
Be a decent man, a good man. Right now you are corrupt and false. If you want to live in a peaceful world, be peaceful - then you are building the world you want. It is really very very simple.
November 13th, 2007 at 10:49 am
As the author of the story on Jared, I’m disappointed, but not surprised to see the comments section hijacked in this fashion. I am no friend of this administration nor war, but this piece was an attempt to acknowledge our commonality, not highlight our differences, and there no political agenda attached.
However one poster’s repeated attempts to hold some sort of illusory high moral ground have soured the experience for me. If your mind were truly free of divisiveness, you would not sow it here with your self-righteous harping. In the future, I’d suggest a little self-restraint, or barring that, perhaps your own blog.
November 13th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Maybe you can learn YOUR lesson by not posting an essay on an Iraqi soldier’s life then assume everyone will be sympathetic to his cause. Perhaps you should take your own advice and get a blog.
At first I made a short one-line comment, this was turned into something much bigger so I responded. A discussion is a two-way thing, so why I am being attacked by you for taking the “high moral ground” when that’s exactly what you’ve just done in your response above is grossly hypocritical.
On the subject of hypocrisy, you make daft sweeping statements such as “Even English Gooners occasionally treat their American counterparts as ugly bastard stepchildren trying to steal their inheritance.” then say this pieces is “an attempt to acknowledge our commonality, not highlight our differences”. Duh?!
November 13th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
This is the first in a series of profiles of Arsenal Branch Managers that I will be writing, and I am authorized by ArsenalAmerica to post them here. After all it is a site by and for American Arsenal Supporters.
Interestingly enough, the respondent calling for goodness and decency was the ONLY one to launch a personal attack on the subject of this profile.
As to the comment about English Gooners, while I have experienced that sort of condescension first hand, it was meant to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, though I’m not surprised someone so inflexible and myopic missed the humor. However, if it offended anyone, I apologize.
I’ll not respond to any further to comments in this thread though I’m sure a rebuttal is forthcoming. Just remember, what one person may see as “truth” may not be someone else’s and it is certainly not absolute.
November 13th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Wow. I just came back to post a quick hello and came across this trainwreck. How disappointing.
I will say I’d dearly love to sit down for pints and discussion with you sometime, Danny. I bet it would be enlightening, though I’m sure you lose a lot of sleep about the state of the world. I do wonder how much you put on the line for what you believe in, but that’s neither here nor there, I s’pose.
Regardless, I’m proud to be a Gooner, and happy to hear from some of you I”ve been lucky enough to meet in person. Thanks to everyone for the well wishes, and here’s hoping the next couple of weeks pass quickly - I’ll be searching high and low to find a way to watch that Sevilla match!
November 13th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
I don’t lose any sleep, I have a clear conscience. At least you made one wise choice in your life - supporting Arsenal.
November 15th, 2007 at 3:35 am
Kudos to Mark for launching this thread. It’s interesting to read about supporters in other places. Unfortunately, when Danny launched his scree people responded instead of ignoring him, a pity, since he sounds very sure of himself and isn’t the type of person to listen to other perspectives. Jared, Josh and I are sure of ourselves too.
I learn a lot about Arsenal and about football on this site, and agree that it’s a shame when this happens- inevitable on a free Web I suppose. The moderators should probably have ended the thread right away when this started.