Dec 21
Arsenal draw AC Milan in the first knock out stage. Milan is currently sitting in 11th I believe in Serie A, with just four wins from 13 matches.
Old. Slow. Beatable.
41 Responses to “Champions League Draw - Arsenal v. AC Milan”
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December 21st, 2007 at 8:12 am
They didn’t look very old and slow when they destroyed United in the second leg at the San Siro last season. Worst possible draw in terms of progressing but the best in terms of excitement. I’ve wanted us to play Milan for years.
December 21st, 2007 at 8:13 am
On the one hand, they can be seen as an aging side with no pace. On the other hand, they have loads and loads of experience, while our young team is totally devoid of any in the big Euro stage. ZExperience and tactics count a lot more than pace in Europe, so this will not be an easy task.
December 21st, 2007 at 9:24 am
Mazza, worst possible draw? I’d rather play Milan than Inter or Barca.
Nipuna, did experience count a lot when we skinned Juve and Real Madrid on the way to the final two years ago?
I’m not saying this is a walk over, but if the Arsenal are healthy and on song, I respect, but do not fear AC Milan.
December 21st, 2007 at 9:30 am
Rick, I mentioned both experience and tactics. Juve and Real Madrid is possibly the only time Wenger employed tactics to win a game and even that was by accident because of mass injuries.
I’m not saying we are going to get blown away, just that this will not easy. As Mazza said, look no further than what happened to ManU last season.
December 21st, 2007 at 9:38 am
Of course, there isn’t a great deal between the top clubs and Barcelona have more ability, but I’ve watched Milan closely for a while now and barring injuries to Kaka and Pirlo, they have our number.
In the first leg they’re gonna fiddle and fart about and try and get a draw. In the second leg they will horribly outsmart us. They’ll raise their game and Pirlo and Kaka, and Seedorf will prey on on our weak area in defensive midfield.
You may be right, we could blow them away at the Emirates, however Juventus these lot aint.
December 21st, 2007 at 10:22 am
I love it!
It will be extremely hard to progress against one of the best teams in the world. There is no debate about that. But what a great challenge for a good young Arsenal team. We can beat them. Talented Youth who need to play without fear versus Older Experienced Champions of the World, who have to play without arrogance.
December 21st, 2007 at 10:27 am
A lot also depends on what happens by Feb time frame. Right now, Arsenal are on top form and Milan are struggling. That could change come Feb. We can talk more only then.
December 21st, 2007 at 10:37 am
Myles made a good point a while back. Milan may be 11th in the league but have big big big game players who care only about the CL now and can lift their game for 180 minutes once in a way. Tough tough tie and a classic Experience vs Youth battle. Its not just about Kaka BTW.
Milan don’t have our number or anyone else’s nor do any other team have any one else’s number. Its a cup tie and AW will know what he is in for. He plays well for 180 minutes; the tie is Arsenal’s. Might sound very obvious but if Arsenal don’t do what they did at El Madrigal in the CL semifinal we will go through.
Either way its a long way away and the Spurs game is next up. Lets get back to that thread
December 21st, 2007 at 11:17 am
some director called the madrid draw 2 seasons ago “showbusiness”.
and that is the exact word that came into my mind when i saw we got Milan. EXCELLENT DRAW. this is exactly what the champions league should be about, this is what it should feel like. u can be 100% sure that every fan will be shaking like a leaf in anticipation, fear and prayer in the countdown to the match.
this is no bloody PSV humdrum.
fabregas and hleb vs kaka and pirlo. delicious.
December 21st, 2007 at 11:17 am
Does anyone know if ESPN will cover this match? I don’t believe they have picked up a single Arsenal Champions League match this season. Does this have something to do with the contract with Setanta?
December 21st, 2007 at 11:32 am
AC Milan don’t frighten me, the one thing you need to beat them is power and pace, which Arsenal have in abundance.
Of course, they’re a lot cleverer than us, and if we’re going to lose it will be down to tactics, which is a concern as Wenger doesn’t have any.
December 21st, 2007 at 11:42 am
Thats actually a slightly unfair comment to say he has NO tactics. If he was ‘tacticless’ we wouldn’t have won so much and been so successful. yes in relation to Benitez and Mourinho n Capello n Koeman and the rest he might not be so good but he has to be in the top bracket. Else there’s no way anyone can win anything for so long.
But Yes Milan are smart..bigtime; and will play to their strengths all the time. Its a tight tie. Too early to say but Milan might nick it IMO. But we have a big CHANCE.
December 21st, 2007 at 11:48 am
We’re going to beat the brakes off of Milan. If we lose it will probably be because of the goal keeper as Milan do have a squad full of guys that can hit the ball. But they’re so old. Clichy and Eboue are going to run rampant. I’m looking forward to watching this tie.
December 21st, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Interesting match-up. My first instinct is to look at Milan’s defense which at last count had an average age of 35+. But then again, watching how Milan neutralized ManU means that a team has to first get to Milan’s defense first. I was in total awe of how Milan ripped apart ManU last year.
I still believe Kaka is everything to them with Pirlo being important but understated. And if Gattuso is playing, our young midfielders will have to be razor sharp otherwise, they won’t know what hit them. Then there is Inzaghi. The guy will be a real handful and he is constantly lurking on the backline looking for any mistakes. Will be curious to see if Milan buys a big player in Jan who will be eligible for this tie.
The more I think about it, this will be a real test. Hopefully the extra games that Milan have to play in the league to make up for their world club cup absence tires them out before they meet Arsenal
December 21st, 2007 at 12:56 pm
as long as senderos does not play, i think our defense can neutralize inzaghi, he definitely cant beat gallas or toure for pace anyway.
i agree with danny, its all up to wenger if he wants to balls it up.
if we play a slow, “tactical” 4-5-1 at home and try to play mind games with them, they will always win such a battle. they like slow, chess-like games. that is what Man U tried to do last season and got thrashed. so there is no chance of us beating them in that sort of game.
it must be up tempo. hit the strikers fast, no ponderous bull crap. i hope wenger gets it together on the night.
and it would also help if we can get a reyes-quick winger. then their 35+ aged defense will need lots of water and vitamins lol.
December 21st, 2007 at 1:04 pm
This is a good draw as I think this will be just like Madrid a couple years ago. Big name club whose legendary players have tons of “experience,” but who are also really just past their best. If you look at Milan’s results this year they have been pretty mediocre. Four wins, three losses and six draws in the league. Furthermore, they finished first in their CL group with thirteen points, but it was pretty mediocre group. Celtic got through second with three losses. I think we will win, although, we do have to go to the San Siro for the second leg, which will be tough.
As an aside, did anyone see the highlights of Carlos Vela during the Madrid game. He looks like Reyes without all the diving. Great pace, great touch, great vision, and fearless. Wish we could bring him in January. Hope he can handle the cold.
December 21st, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Wenger knows it will be a challenge judging by his comments- I am intrigued by this one: “What I would like my squad to do now is to focus on the Premier League and be in a comfortable position when we play Milan, so that, at that time, we can focus completely on the Champions League during these 15 days.” (from Arsenal.com)
Looking at the fixture list I am sure Wenger hopes the we make the CC final so the Birmingham tie is rescheduled leaving just Aston Villa as the PL match for the senior squad to play.
Whatever formation they announce I think the key is avoid the constant slow pace stuff. It is the periods of dominant posession with little movement and penetration that we should avoid. We will have 4 in the back with Sagna and Clichy hopefully maraudering up the sidelines in attack. Also, remember Flamini is more versatile than Gilberto so we have another midfielder for the opposition to mark. Having van Persie in the lineup is vital too since he is our dead-ball specialist.
I think having a big hurdle early will do wonders for our team’s confidence if we succeed.
December 21st, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Look at it the other way around:
Prior to the draw, when AC Milan looked at the 2nd Pool sides they might have to face, I bet Arsenal was one of the names they wanted to avoid most.
Drawing against the defending champs really is nothing to lose. There is no disgrace losing to the “champions”. On the other hand, a victory for the Gunners would raise the team’s confidence even higher - we have just beaten the “champions” who has the officially the world’s BEST player in it.
December 21st, 2007 at 1:49 pm
They will sit back and defend, we have to attack, attack, attack!
December 21st, 2007 at 1:51 pm
@live_dont_exist: Of course Wenger has to employ tactics at some level, all managers do. I’m really talking about big match tactics where a set piece can make a difference, or man marking. Giving players individual instructions to nullify the opposition or exploit their weaknesses. Wenger hasn’t a clue when it comes to this and his Champions League record is atrocious. When you think the first 10 years of his reign Arsenal were 1st or 2nd every year, but in the Champions league they couldn’t even get past the quarter finals, or even the group stages occasionally.
Basically, Wenger has one system and they win or lose by it depending on the performance. The only time he ever tried something tactically different was when he went 4-5-1 and Arsenal got to the Champions league final. However, he never intended to play that system - injuries forced him into it and it worked so he stuck with it. To prove how lacking in tactical acumen he is, even when he didn’t need to use 4-5-1 he continued to employ it and Arsenal nearly got knocked out by a far inferior team, Villarreal.
AC Milan is usually the sort of team that knocks Arsenal out, but they’re so so old, you would have to think Arsenal will have too much pace and power for them as long as they play with no fear.
December 21st, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Every year people say the same thing about Milan being mediocre in the league, being too old etc, however when it comes to the crunch all that goes out the window and they raise their game to levels which we should struggle big time to cope with. All that youth and pace we have will be rendered usless by the second leg as the occasion turns certain players legs to rubber. Milan will do a number on us big time at the San Siro, i’m convinced of that, but hopefully we will have done enough in the first leg to keep them honest enough for LONG ENOUGH in the second leg to not test our weak chin until the it’s too late.
By the way, their time isn’t that old. Apart from a couple, their players are in the peak and Seedorf is like a fine wine.
1) Dida 33yrs old
Pirlo 28 yrs old
2) Oddo 30 yrs old
3) Jankulovski 29 yrs old
4) Nesta 31 yrs old
5) Kaladze 29 yrs old
6) Ambrossini 30 yrs old
7) Gattuso 29 yrs old
9) Seedorf 31 yrs old
10) Kaka 25 yrs old
11) Inzaghi 33 yrs old/ Ronaldo 31 yrs old/ Gilardino 25 yrs old
That team is maybe too old to produce over the course of the season but in a knockout competition they are absolute perfection, especially having the second leg away.
Either way it will be a great learning process for the players.
December 21st, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Okay, feck knows why that smiley is next to Pirlo. I haven’t got a thing for him or anything.
December 21st, 2007 at 2:29 pm
*)
We have to look at all of these big tests that the team is facing this season. Ever since we scraped to 4th last year and had nothing to play for with a month of the season left, there has been mention of one big test or another.
Henry Leaves = BIG TEST
No Big Signings = BIG TEST
Conceding to Fulham = BIG TEST
Playing Man Citeh = BIG TEST
Playing Portsmouth = BIG TEST
Playing Manure = BIG TEST
Loosing to Boro = BIG TEST
etc. etc. etc.
This current crop has played brilliantly and has surprised many. I am not going to speculate on our chances. I think going into every game any team vs. another has a chance of winning.
This is exciting and I look forward to it expecting a result. I believe in our team and our manager. We have the talent and experience as well. Hleb and Rociky (sic) are both national team captains. Gallas has loads of experience and so does Toure. Van Persie is no lame duck either.
I believe we can win the CL. I believe we can win the PL. I believe we can win the FA Cup.
As a gooner, I believe in Arsenal!
December 21st, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Understand where u coming from Mazza. In a sense, it’s true. Champions League is a cup/tournament competition, so basically the league form doesn’t really mean much.
In fact, in recent time, those who did well in CL often were the teams who struggled in the league - that allows them to concentrate on the CL. Such as Liverpool’s CL winning year, they finished 5th in league. The year during our CL final trip, we too were struggled in league. Likewise, last season’s finalists, both AC and Liverpool weren’t doing particular well in their domestic league neither.
In modern day football, AC Milan had one of the best record in CL. Far better than the old Lady Juve, who had a superior domestic record in Series A yet their CL record is no where near to AC. So obviously AC cannot be a team to be underestimated.
Anyway, how fans feel do not really matter much. I am pretty sure no one in the Arsenal team dares to take AC Milan lightly.
December 21st, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Whether you believe in Arsenal or not is irrelevant. Your belief is not going to make their legs run faster or their brains work better.
If you want to make a prediction you look at history, you look at managers, you look at players, tactics, form. Mentality is a crucial component of this game.
Of course I do believe it is possible to beat Milan, after all Arsenal have a good record against Italian clubs recently. But 25 years experience of supporting this club tells me the odds are stacked against Arsenal, and we probably won’t reach the quarter final. If
December 21st, 2007 at 2:39 pm
@ DannyT 25
What good is a team if their fans don’t believe in them? If they don’t believe in themselves?
Statistics and history are irrelevant because belief can re-write any of those.
December 21st, 2007 at 3:34 pm
“What good is a team if their fans don’t believe in them?”
If the side is Tinkerbell FC, I guess it’s an issue. Otherwise, I think they’ll be fine.
History is irrelevant? Can’t say I agree there, either. Those who don’t learn from it are doomed to make the same mistakes over and over. (To paraphrase someone wiser than I.)
But I do love the draw. As someone said above, it’s great experience and no disgrace if we lose. If we win, well….
December 21st, 2007 at 3:37 pm
You have to transmit that belief, put it to good use - even then its power is limited. Shouting at the TV or walking around during the day or writing on web forums saying “I believe in Arsenal” is not going to help Arsenal one bit. This is not fairyland. If you believe in the team, buy a ticket if you can afford it and cheer them on - maybe you do. If you don’t your belief means nothing.
Statistics and history are not irrelevant at all, they are crucial. Football is 50% psychological, at the very least - you see that in nearly every game, how the match swings from one direction to the other due to psychology. If you have been on a bad run (history) morale is low and you underperform, if you are on a great run sometimes you can get overconfident and lose advantage. To say history is irrelevant is absolute garbage, history forms experience and experience has a massive effect on your attitude and behaviour, how can it not?.
The one thing that is irrelevant is a person coming on a web forum making predictions or shaking their fist at the TV. This affects no-one, except you and maybe it frightens your dog.
December 21st, 2007 at 3:48 pm
We can do ‘em. The team that turns up on the day and wants it most wins.
December 21st, 2007 at 4:01 pm
“Prior to the draw, when AC Milan looked at the 2nd Pool sides they might have to face, I bet Arsenal was one of the names they wanted to avoid most.”
Excellent point. Realistically, that had to be one of the worst possible pairings - for them. As others have already said pacing will be key and the Gunners can push it up the pitch with any team in the world. This should be quite fun to watch.
December 21st, 2007 at 4:32 pm
@ DannyT 28
You need some Prozac…pronto!
So you mean to tell me that as you support Arsenal in front of the TV you don’t believe in their chances to win a game. What is the point then if you write them off before they kick a ball. Please don’t deny the fact that you want in anticipation every passing move and scream in anguish when it hits the post. Tell me you have never done that and I will agree with you that belief is irrelevant. If you have, that is what is called belief.
You trust your support, your emotions, and your love to the club. You imagine all they can accomplish and you BELIEVE that those accomplishments are possible. Statistics are not irrelevant in the whole picture, but they are irrelevant to players who strive to achieve a result and work to win a game. When a player shoots, he BELIEVES that he will score. He doesn’t process statistics in his mind. When he goes on a run he BELIEVES it will have an end product; again statistics count for nothing. Once that ball is kicked, the players are not going to calculate statistics. They will play with their hearts and mind committed to the game (hopefully).
Just as they and they manager will carry belief that a result will come, or a shot will hit the back of the net, or a pass will cut through a defense…so will I!
PS: Any form, whether good or bad, can be changed in the belief that you can accomplish greater. Look no further than the Newcastle or Boro games, where players BELIEVED that they could accomplish a result and did!
December 21st, 2007 at 5:05 pm
I didn’t say I don’t believe, in some games I do and in others I don’t.
What I did say, if you bothered to read what I wrote properly, is that me having belief in the team will not transmit to the players, and my belief in them makes no difference to whether they actually win a game or not. Unless you are completely mad and believe in telepathy.
When I watch TV some games I believe we can win and some I don’t. I don’t sit there every single game saying “I believe, I believe”, when its obvious that sometimes the team isn’t good enough. If you do then you are a fruitcake.
It’s a bit like that Middlesbrough away game recently, when a culmination of injuries and tough games meant it was pretty obvious that the team was going to struggle and they did. Whereas you probably sat there with total belief that Arsenal would win no matter what, like an idiot.
As for your ridiculous assertion that when a player goes on a run he believes there will be an end product or believes he will score - you must have come out of the mental institution to think that. Belief is usually what makes the difference between a world class striker and any ordinary striker. Yes, very often footballers DON’T believe they will score, that’s why they smash it over the bar or pass it to the keeper. And it only takes one miss and they will believe even less the next time. But don’t worry, you can always shut your eyes, cross your fingers and say “I BELIEVE IN THEM”, as if that will make any difference.
Besides, your last comment is totally hypocritical, saying the Boro players “believed” they could accomplish a result and they did. So what happened in YOUR belief in Arsenal that night, and where was Arsenal’s belief? Nowhere to be seen obviously.
It is people like you, with your daft expectations that have no realistic perspective on the game whatsoever. You are always the first to shoot your mouth off and criticise the team when their performance did not concur with your so-called “beliefs”.
Stop saying “I believe” before every single match, it is stupid. And Arsenal have only one a jammy FA Cup on penalties in the last 4 years. So what more evidence do you need that saying “I believe” before every single game is complete and utter rubbish.
December 21st, 2007 at 7:14 pm
This is a fantastic tie for us.
We’ve been in this competition consistently for years, we aspire to be one of the biggest clubs in the world, the building blocks are being put in place, this is why we play in this competition. To play and beat the best.
AC Milan are street wise no doubt. And they have immense history. I respect them greatly, but I’m not unduly worried at all.
You can overplay the ‘young and inexperienced’ Arsenal line. Look at the first team, many of the individuals now have a good level of European competition experience. What I see is younger legs against older heads. But as Wenger recently said; players start off full of running, then they have add experience to their running, then then just have experience.
Has AC Milan got enough running left?
We all saw with Arsenal Mark II that a team reaches a point where collectively there isn’t enough running - and it’s not just in the legs. All the juice is squeezed and there’s nothing left.
December 21st, 2007 at 10:18 pm
AC Milan reminds me of the old man who shows up on the racket ball court and beats younger opponents with ease without even moving. They do it with experience and playing the angles very well. Mentally this season though AC Milan has not raised its game to beat the teams they should be beating easily. These lesser teams have either gotten early goals or gotten into the 2nd half tied and then they develop belief to nick a goal. They’ve had goals scored against them on the break and corners. Dida has played better this season but their defense has been problematic. When AC Milan have gone behind this season, they have not been able to come back like last season.
If Arsenal play with calm belief they can beat AC Milan. Gilardino has been inconsistent and has not been the replacement for Shevchenko that was hoped for. Seedorf and Pirlo epitomize the notion of wily veterans. Pirlo is deadly from 20-30 yds out on FKs. Seedorf is the under 20yd man. Kaka, the Balon d’or and FIFA World Player of the year is the real deal unlike Calderon’s Cannavaro. AC Milan rely on him to high speed penetrating runs into the box that are devastatingly effective. If he is on and you fail to deny him the ball, he can carry his team by himself as was evident in last year’s CL run. Once he has the ball, he then becomes very difficult to contain. The referees will protect him as well. Oddo, the RB ties to put crosses into the box but he not Cafu in his prime. Maldini at 37yo is calling it a career in June. Nesta and Kaladze are still good CBs but the CMs I think have failed to provide adequate cover. That would be Gattuso and Pirlo. Neither will lead attacks, instead relying on Kaka and Seedorf to carry the ball into the final third.
The real problem for AC Milan is that they are already relying on the arrival the 18yo striker Pato. We know all about how it works with kids. This is ‘virgin’ territory for AC Milan. There is still Ronaldo who is once again recovering from injury. Despite being treated for a “thyroid” problem Ronaldo still remains overweight. He hasn’t just lost a step, he has lost many steps. Despite that, he still trys to beat people off the dribble. Think of a Heskey rather than an Henry.
A month or so ago, Ancelotti came out of nowhere with a disparaging comment about Arsenal’s youth and experience or lack there of. At the time, I thought “what’s up with this?” You’re the coach of the CL champions, the great AC Milan and you are deigning to notice a 3-0 English team in another group. There was a fear there and its name is Arsenal. Now that fear has become a reality for Ancelotti. Ancelotti will be done if Arsenal eliminate AC Milan.
December 22nd, 2007 at 12:37 am
AC Milan Vs. Inter 9:00AM, Sunday, live on FSC.
I have only seen highlights of Milan this year, so I am going to try to catch this game.
Who is going to replace Kolo? It is tough to make a prediction before this is known.
December 22nd, 2007 at 2:06 am
North London derby today and everyone is talking about the Milan game two months away (just 11 comments on the Spurs thread as of this moment). Shows how far we have come from the Arsenal is nothing without Henry and Spurs to break into the top 4 days.
Nevertheless, it’s a derby and Spurs will up for it. If they can’t score goals, they will to score some tackles. While I am confident we will win, an early goal will suit us just fine.
December 22nd, 2007 at 5:09 am
A win today will likely to see the St. Bottleham Day arrived earlier than ever this season around.
December 22nd, 2007 at 5:17 am
also wonder if Man U will suffer any post-X’mas party side effect against Everton?
December 22nd, 2007 at 6:21 am
I also thought it was interesting that Ancelotti deemed it necessary to make a comment about Arsenal. Hopefully, the media remembers that and it puts a bit more unnecessary pressure on the Italian team.
Truthfully, Milan are a team that know how to win. While they might be an aging team, they’re not that old unless you compare them to Arsenal. When I think of teams that should trouble Milan, which include Man Utd, Liverpool, and Sevilla, Milan have beaten them all in this calendar with relative ease. Truth be told, the game against Sevilla was soon after Puerta had passed but Sevilla were up for it. Milan were just way too strong for them. They were way too strong for Man Utd and Liverpool as well.
At the end of the day, I’d rather we’d won our group and be playing against Fernebache and let Sevilla deal with AC Milan. But this is more intriguing.
December 22nd, 2007 at 11:42 am
I see a lot of people pointing to Milan’s Serie A position as indications of thier poor form. While this may be true, it does not, at all, carry over to the Champions League. Maybe for guys at their peaks like Kaka and Pirlo, every game matters, but there’s not question that for these older, big guns (Seedorf, Inzaghi, Gattuso, Maldini, etc.) the CL is far more important than the league. These are the types of players who know how to turn it on for one game, and will do so for the Champions League. (Also I believe that with their business in Japan done and almost 3 months off in the CL, that Milan’s league position will rise.)
December 23rd, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Hopefully Milan don’t buy a new goal keeper in Jan’s transfer window. Not seen the highlights from this morning’s Milan derby but read that Dida might have been at fault, again.