Arsenal 1 – 1 Spurs
January 9, 2008
In a match not without controversy, an offside goal by Spurs was cancelled out by what may have been a hand-of-Walcott equalizer 12 minutes from time as an underperforming Arsenal drew 1-1 with Spuds in the 1st leg of the Carling Cup Semis tonight at the Grove.
As nice as it was to hear the chants of “You’ll Never Beat The Arsenal!”, Arsenal really were crap for the majority of the match, and should count themselves quite lucky to have gotten a result at all.
Spuds’ away goal looms large, but there’s still reason to be confident that the Gunners will come away with a win at the Lane in a fortnight’s time.
Meanwhile, it’s back to the league (Remember that?), and a match at home against Birmingham City. Kickoff is 10 AM ET on Saturday, and there’ll be live coverage here in the US on Fox Soccer Channel.
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January 9th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Spurs’ goal was not offside. Theo’s shot deflect off his chest (or upper arm), and even if it’s the upperarm, because it’s a deflection, so it’s more like a ball to hand, either way, it’s hardly a handball offence.
Though admittingly Spurs’ FIRST team outplayed the Arsenal SECOND team, the true is if they cannot finish us off, they don’t deserve to win.
Spurs fans on BBC board keep saying Arsenal are LUCKY. but when their players can’t put the ball into the net, it’s hardly our false.
Like our team couldn’t beat CSKA a couple years ago despite total domination, at the end of the day, it’s the scorebox it counts.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
For the third time this season, I have found someone I am more confident in as a third choice center back than Djourou or Senderos. First it was Gilberto (although obviously not now) then Song and now Hoyte. It must be really embarrassing that these two keep getting chances and every time they are outplayed by players converted from other positions. But of those three, only Song has half a chance at becoming a quality player in that position. It is going to be miserable watching one of these clowns sink our season over the next few weeks.
As for Gilberto, thanks for you what you’ve done. But it is getting harder and harder to remember the good times every time you step on the field. If I were, Juve (whose attention has already turned to Sisokko) I wouldn’t give a dozen donuts for Gilberto right now.
Finally, Spurs! Pure comedy!
January 9th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
yet in all honesty, don’t think anyone of our players’ performance today deserved a rating of “5″ or above. naturally if AW is going to play the same team the 2nd leg, they need to play better, and learn to deal with Spurs “closing down” game better.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
I think there’s a curious dynamic that transpires with Wenger regarding veteran players. On the one hand, he’s prone to get rid of them faster than many fans and most other managers would deem prudent. On the other hand, so long as they’re on the roster and somewhat fit, he will try to play them. I think that is what is going on with Gilberto. Because Wenger did not get rid of Gilberto this summer, he still feels constrained to play him whenever there’s an opportunity to do so such as a Carling Cup game or the last 10 minutes of a game where defensive support is necessary. I’m hopeful that today is the end of that tendency with respect to Gilberto and that Wenger comes to grip with the fact that Gilberto hurts the team when he is on the pitch no matter the match or circumstances.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
so djorou’s loan spell only retarded his development. he would have been better off playing in the reserves. when justin hoyte replaces you at halftime, you know its pretty much closed curtains for your arsenal career.
gilberto MUST GO. he must f-cking GO. even for free.
what is the main difference between this team and other carlings cup teams we have put out. Djorou and Gilberto. Says it all.
i think we should bring out the FULL first team for the second leg. but we should leave fabianski in goal, as well as bendtner and eduardo. adebayor should be on the bench.
we have NO backup defenders.
funny, how i never gave a hoot about this cup…..now i have an overwhelming desire not to see spurs play a cup final at wembley at our expense. LOL.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Gilberto’s deficiencies were glaring tonight, but Denilson wasn’t strong enough or creative enough either. There was talk of him as a purely DM; I still think Wenger sees him as a potential playmaker in the middle.
But there wasn’t a whole lot of that tonight, even when our forward dropped deep to try and get things moving. He’s only 19, I know, but these are the games where these young guys are supposes to step up. He was outhustled by another 19-year-old novice in O’Hara for one thing.
Another glaring omission was our attacking play on the flanks. The whole point about increasing the size of the pitch at the Emirates was to increase our wing play.
The Invincibles were experts at ping-ponging their way through a crowded midfield at Highbury, especially when counter-attacking end to end in about 6 seconds.
This new big pitch allows for more patient build-up, but we got so patient we forget to actually take a shot. It also allows us to spread the play and stretch the opposition.
With King back, Sp*rs are a stronger proposition, but still. Our young team should be flying down the wing on the overlap to release crosses. Especially in the first half, when we had Bendtner and VanP in the middle.
I guess Hoyte is not assertive enough yet and Traore still has that “just lucky to be here right now” feeling about him.
Sp*rs have such a confidence problem with us, it’s a miracle. It’s like Kryptonite. They just keep blasting sitters over the bar in the crucial ‘kill the game’ off period. Hope it’s still in place in two weeks time.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
I know we were very lucky tonight. But I can’t help but wonder. Could Spurs beat the Arsenal ladies?
January 9th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
I also appreciate what Gilberto has done for us, and although I have slagged him off I will wish him all the best wherever he goes. But you cannot keep playing someone whose head is so obviously in the clouds. He knows he’s going, Wenger knows, so it’s best to stop pissing about and give Diarra the chance he deserves at this moment in time. I know Diarra was wrong to shoot his mouth off, but he did not insult the club or Wenger, he just said promises were broken and he is frustrated. Sometimes it’s better that a player has a little moan than says nothing collecting his wages every week for years not giving a shit when they clearly have no realistic future (Senderos, Hoyte, Aliadiere spring to mind).
January 9th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
That’s the next step Brendan, surely.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Games like tonight get a mixed response from me. On one hand I hate us getting outhustled and outplayed by Tottenham, but on the other hand anything that substantiates my belief that some of these youngsters are not good enough and encourages Wenger to re-assess their futures, is a good thing in my book.
Because we can get by for paying for their lack of quality in the semi-final 1st legs, but it would be hard to swallow if a Diaby or Denilson contaminated our team in the title shake-up and contributed to the extinguishing of our EPL hopes. One can only hope this performance hasn’t had the opposite effect and strengthened Wenger’s resolve instead of allowing him to take the opportunity to make some moves in the transfer market, especally if Diarra leaves. Tell Gilberto and Denilson to go back to Rio and bring in some decent cover.
Team ratings
Fabianski 6/10- Claimed crosses well and could do nothing about goal. Impressive.
Hoyte 6/10- Competant job at full back and filled in well enough at Centre back.
Djourou 4/10- Complete disaster. His fall from promising youngster to error-strewn er….youngster, has been big disappointment.
Senderos 5.5- Had an okay first half marshalling an abject defence but reverted to form in second half. Could he head more clearances to the oppositon?
Traore 6/10- Hasn’t really progressed at all but was steady enough.
Diaby 5/10- Usual garbage punctuated with the odd good dribble. Lazy as they come.
Gilberto 4/10- Utter shambles. To be fair he’s always irritated the hell out me since he joined but at least he used to work hard. Now he’s on cruise control. I’m a World Cup winner….Get me outta here.
Denilson 4/10- Once again reprised his role as Mr. Anonymous. He made Jamie O’Hara look like Fernando Redondo. Which just about says it all.
Walcott 5/10- Shite but did make a good run for the equaliser.
Bendtner 6/10- Marco Van Basten would have struggled with that midfield. Kept trying and worked hard. Didn’t let his head drop.
Van Persie N/A- He didn’t deserve this after the lay-off. Eduardo should have started and come off for Van Persie late on.
Subs combined 7/10.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
This from the Daily Mail:
“With the exception of Wenger, just about the whole country regards Senderos as a liability at the heart of the Arsenal defence and his reckless foul on Berbatov gave Spurs their first opportunity.”
This means Wenger will continue to do a Rafa and never sell him because a) it’s the right thing to do and b) everyone says so. Sorry guys Capt Sendy to stay.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Try and remember why Wenger buys young Mazza, he simply hasn’t got the money his rivals have, nowhere near it. Think about the successes rather than the failures, there will always be failures and it’s only natural that young players accelerate at different rates.
Wenger can reassess all he likes, but he hasn’t had the money to buy ready-made world class players year in year out like Liverpool, Man Utd or Chelsea have. Or even Man City, Newcastle and Tottenham, who also all have more disposable income.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
of Diarra, i think AW is merely teaching him a lesson. If Diarra is staying, in a long run, it will only benefit him by dropping him right now.
I think basically it’s the same thing AW did to Lehmann. Had Jens, or Diarra kept their mouth shut, they might find themselves playing right now.
Unlike Jens, Diarra is still young. It’s important for a young lad to keep his feet on the ground. I believe with every young talented player, whatever position they play, they could either go down the path of Anelka, Cole, or Henry, Adams.
I had a feeling in recent years, AW probably regret the fact that he has been simply too nice or too tolerated to some of his talented players. And what happened to Anelka, later Vieira, Cole, Henry probably let AW down a bit.
for a young player to turly blossom, apart from their talent, the priority is to get their head straight. If AW gives in to them all the time, a moaner will always be a moaner – say, today Diarra may complain about “lack of first team chance”, when he does get his chance and establish himself as a regular, if he doesn’t have a right flame of mind, one day he may moan about “the club needs to match my ambition” by spending big on quality players craps like that.
in every sense, he’s lucky to have worked under AW. Imagine he came out to say the same thing to the press playing under Ferguson or Mourinho…..
January 9th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
But he’s got the money now Danny. The only thing that is stopping him is his stubborn streak and loyalty. I’m sure if Wenger looked around he could find someone better than Gilberto and Denilson. I mean, look at Diarra, he looked decent but nothing special at Chelsea. But then he goes to Arsenal and looks by far the most talented central midfielder at the club after Cesc.
I think Wenger is underplaying his own ability to coax out the best out of players in their latter twenties. We’ve seen with the old back four and Parlour that Wenger can co-exist with guys who have been around the block.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Some of you guys amaze me. Talk about disloyalty. Yeah Gilberto was horrific today and he has not been outstanding at all this season, the few times he has played. But do none of you understand that players have bad spells. He was outstanding last season.
Yeah I think Gilberto should go but not before we have given him some silverware at the end of this season, he deserves that much for his loyalty , I think that is why Wenger has not let him go, simple appreciation.
We need to keep hold of Diarra I rate that boy, but his attitude stinks, that I hope is the only reason he did not play today, otherwise Wenger has agreed to let him leave.
Denilson is not as bad as you guys think, it is true he is not quite ready yet, I think he is struggling with the high intensity pressure of the English game, give him time he will come good remember the Newcastle game this season and and couple of performances last season.
I am happy somebody is noticing the deficiencies of Walcott finally as it seems his “Englishness” means he can do no wrong in the majority of minds. However he is weak and lacks the necessary aggression but I think his best position is our overly congested forward position.
I am sure Danny T or someone just as ignorant is going to slate me when I say Diaby does not need a left foot, his right is that good, furthermore that boy could just hop around on one leg! he just needs to be played in a central role. All that nonsense about Diaby being lazy is, I repeat nonsense, however he can dwell on the ball too long considering the pace and pressure put on players in the EPL. I think Diaby was our best player tonight. If you want to see lazy you need to watch Bendtner (who seems to be the golden boy on this site, he never gets any bad press) it’s his lack of hard work that ensures he stays firmly behind Adebayor in the pecking order. He is more of a clinical finsher although he is afraid to shoot from outside the box, or so it seems.
I have said enough but I have to say I cannot believe Senderos was our captain. “Arsene Knows”? I usually agree with that statement but I got to say I am skeptical when in this case, if we got to rely on Senderos and Djourou throughout the African Nations Cup we could well lose the title which I said would win this season after watching our pre season performances. I think we should fork out up to £15 mill and buy Micah Richards, he is that good and will be loyal.
We were terrible tonight but I think we may well improve and scrape it at WHL, but it could well be the end of the road I really find this one hard to call, they are due to beat us sometime, I would rather it be in the CC.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Yes, I too believe Wenger has more money to spend on the finished product than he’s had during the last 5 years. But it’s hard to believe that Wenger will tolerate more of Gilberto. I think he’ll give Denilson some more chances but unless there’s improvement he’s never going to start. I also now see why Diaby pisses off some of the people on this site. He got beat to the ball several times by Spurs.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Funny that no one yet has seen fit to discuss mad Jens’ move to Dortmund.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
>>in every sense, he’s lucky to have worked under AW. Imagine he came out >to say the same thing to the press playing under Ferguson or Mourinho…..
Andez, yeah I can’t imagine he would have gotten away that at those 2 other clubs. If Diarra was under Ferguson, either he would have been out the club minutes after that statement was published or a boot might have been heading in his direction. And with Mourinho, public humiliation. You remember a game a few years ago that Mourinho kept shouting at Joe Cole even though Cole was Chelsea’s best player that day. I think he sub’ed Cole off eventually because Cole didn’t follow Mourinho’s instructions word for word, or something.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Danny @ 8… I dunno. Wenger might well feel insulted by Diarra, essentially, calling him a liar. If I didn’t lie, I know I’d be miffed at the accusation. (Having said that, it baffles me that ‘hurt feelings’ explains why Gilberto was out there today. Gotta be more to Diarra’s dropping than that. AW is clearly not putting Gilberto on display, as every step ‘bert takes decreasing his value.)
Arthur @ 15, use of words like ‘disloyalty’ when discussing professional sport makes you sound naiive. We’re loyal to the crest, the club. It’s the best interests of AFC most of us are interested in. Having Gilberto on the pitch is not good for the club, and we’re expressing our displeasure in support of the club over the individual. And this bothers you exactly why?
January 9th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
There was interesting injury news on Arsenal’s official website from the Wenger post-game press conference this evening. The news concerned Djourou, Senderos and RVP, specifically that all incurred injuries during tonight’s game.
Regarding the central defender injuries and the potential implications, Wenger said: “Djourou is a problem we had already at Birmingham so that means for me it came back, a groin problem, you know? Senderos, a little mid-knee ligament he got in the first half, so we’ll see. We have to assess all that, I cannot tell you how long they will be out, it can be one, two days, it can be two weeks! It’s difficult to assess tonight. Hoyte, Gilberto, Sagna can play in there, we still have solutions.”
Regarding RVP, Wenger said: “we have to see tomorrow morning, is it just scar tissue? Sometimes, you know, when you come back after a long time, is it just a question of two days or is it longer, we’ll see that tomorrow.”
And here I thought it was Walcott that got injured this evening.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Oops, I and the German newspaper Die Bild apparently have jumped the gun on Lehmann. According to Wenger. no deal has been made with Dortmund either by Arsenal or by Jens. My apologies.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Happy for the draw from Arsenals 2nd team squad. Spuds played as hard as their first team could and all they could go home with was a draw.
If Arsenal’s first team squad had of gone out they would of opened up the play at the back and the score would have reflected it with a Gunner win.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
If Wenger went to the Board and said I want to buy players x, y, and z for 10, 20 & 30 million they would do it. They have the money, they have the confidence in Wenger, they would want to back him and keep him happy. The debt is under control, the Emirates project complete, cash flow is established, the team is successful, there is nothing to stop large purchases.
Why doesn’t he? Cause he doesn’t want to. He has never liked buying other peoples stars, never. He likes developing his own stars or the occassional refurb job (Overmars, Kanu). He gets his kicks out of this, not media/fan pandering.
Let’s not slash our wrists after one draw.
Look on the bright side, we might have chosen Spurs as our club. Now there is a depressing thought. Spurs are hopeless. I have followed football for a while and Spurs have always been hopeless. Even when they were a big-5 club they were hopeless. And the seeds of this are in the clubs ownership and governance. But to see this requires a level of self criticism that is highly unlikely – so Spurs fans should settle in and continue to enjoy a sustained period of failure.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Arsenal in the League Cup is very comprable to the 49ers at LSU (hypothetically)….the 49ers would ALWAY’s be expected to win,…..BUT.
Come on you Red’s,shame those Totteringham fool’s!!!!!
January 9th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
From Henry…..
“Whatever will happen with my new team, I will never find the same affection I was given at Arsenal,” he added. “You always come back to what you belong so I hope that I will be able to work again with the club. I have this club in the blood.”
Hmmm…..kinda interesting comment. Didn’t expect that so soon. What it does show me is the allure that continues to develop around Arsenal.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Arsenal was so bad tonight that just for a minute I knew what it felt like to be a Spurs fan. It was pretty horrible I can tell you.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Sorry,……it should have read Arsenal against Tottenham in the League Cup……
January 9th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
#26……like a near-death experience I guess
January 9th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
The result and performance tonight are not of any great consequence. If we pinch it at the Lane, then it’s just more hilarious humiliation for our rivals. If we lose, we’ll it’s a good wake-up goal for some of the youngsters, and hopefully to Wenger.
The real problem is out defence for winning the League. With Toure gone, Wenger is seriously expecting Gallas and er, Djourou/Sendy/Hoyte to hold firm for the next 4 weeks or so.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
One answer and 4 keys to the season…….
The answer? Well the question in December was where would the goals come from and the answer has been Dudu. We were looking a little impotent there for a brief stanza in December and Dudu has stood up. There is a sense of break-through about his recent form. With him and RvP’s pending return we have more goal threat. What I love about Dudu, is that he scores even when we don’t deserve it. His goals don’t require 32 continuous passes going through at least 8 players. It’s strewth! Bang! GOAL!!!
What are the 4 keys to the remainder of the season? Well, they are players who have been the backbone to the first half of the season. If they stay on the park and in reasonable form I think we are looking really good.
1. Adebayor: This guy has been immense for me. He has carried the forward role on his shoulders particularly given he often has played a lone striking role with erratic and limited support. Whatever the formation he has almost always given a big performance. For me he’s starting to look a monster, must be a nightmare to play him when we are playing reasonably well. Up front he holds it together.
2. Fabregas: Forget Mozart, Fab is our composer. He gives us direction, options, goals, time, composure, attitude……almost everything. In the middle he holds it together.
3. Sagna: Best immediate performer since Vieira? How can a RB knit together a defence? Dunno the answer, it sounds wrong, but Sagna looks like the answer we weren’t looking for. He’s just been sooo solid. The only blip came in one game when he removed his extensions!! He saw the error, put them on again and hasn’t looked back.
4. Gallas: Good on ya Willie, I asked you to step up to the plate and you have. Both as captain and in performance. He brings an edge to his game, in fact all 4 players have that bite, that attitude that they want to win and won’t be pushed around. Between them Gallas and Sagna hold the defence together.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
[...] After going a goal down, Arsene Wenger brought on Eduardo and regular full back Bacary Sagna. Arsenal found another gear after the introduction of the duo and were rewarded when Walcott running at full speed slot the ball passed Radek Cerny. [...]
January 9th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
What “wake up call” needed? Let’s dont take anything for granted. This was our second XI, not the starting XI. There is only ONE team who dares to play an entire second XI in Carling Cup, and to a lesser extend FA Cup, and came away with the RESULT.
Not even Man U, not even Chelsea dared to field an entire second XI. Man Utd tried to play with their kids in Carling Cup, and we all knew how they ended up.
So no matter how we look at it, a 1-1 draw against Spurs with our second XI was a brilliant result.
Yes, the performance was not outstanding. Yet, let’s look at it this way – had our second XI side totally dominated the game against the Spurs full strength side and beat them 3-0 or something, we might find ourselves in a big trouble – none of those second XI would be too happy to sit on the bench for long. They might all end up doing a “Diarra”, believing that they are too good to wait.
January 9th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
I am comforted by the thought that this was suppose to be a learning experience for these players. I learned that the terrors of Burnley still have a ways to go to get in the first team (Denilson, Diaby) Some former first team members should never darken our door again (Gilberto). Sometimes a loan spell works (J. Hoyte) and sometimes it does not (Djourou). Djourou cleared that ball with his head and not his groin and thus he has no excuse. Tomorrow is another day in the life of a footballer and their fans. Song came back from the abyss. Senderos is still lost in there. Maybe there is still a chance for Djourou to regain some semblance of the player we and Wenger were hoping for.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Problem with playing both Gilberto and Denilson mean we lose the midfield creativity. FFS, both are defensive midfielders more comfortable in cutting off opponents’ attacks then trying to create chances for our strikers. It was already obvious in the FA cup game against Burnley and now in this game that our midfield did not create anything of note. So it is not surprising that Walcott’s goal (what a fluke goal I must say!) came from a pass other than our midfielders – in this case, Eduardo. Diaby was busy trying to beat 1, 2 and sometimes 3 men and probably forgot to pass the ball. Walcott was stuck too close to the touchline and continue to fade in and out of the entire game. Other than 1 good cross to Bendtler in the first half, there was basically no service to our forwards from our midfielders. How to score more goals?! The writing is on the wall….if Wenger persists in playing the same 4-some in midfield for the return, we are as good as out.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Problem is Denilson is shit defensively as well.
It’s a bad sign when people chop and change their description of Denilson’s game. Mental gymnastics at its best. He’s more molly-cuddled than Theo Walcott.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
actually, denilson is actually what gilberto probably was like when he was 19. a DM in the traditional brazillian sense (ie. poor defensively in the european sense).
he suffices as an AM only against teams outside the top 7 i think. that is OK in my view. i dont see him as incompetent….unlike gilberto, senderos, walcott, hoyte and sadly Djourou.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
This result is definitely not unexpected. Out midfield was poor at Burnley, but it was attributed to the poor pitch and our attack bailed us out with good finishes. Y’day, the midfield was the same and the defense was even weaker and our attack was not the same and the pitch was in great shape and Spurs were playing their first team. We still managed a draw. I have a feeling this game will go to penalties in the second leg.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Kiwi, I think the two main questions in Dec were – who will score the goals and who will replace Toure? Eduardo has nicely answered the first one. The second one remains wide open. If we can somehow ride through the Toure-less time without too much damage, we can still challenge for the title. Of course, that’s assuming Gallas and Toure remain fit.
Andez, remember me once telling you that sending a player on loan can sometimes do you harm, especially if you play for a weak team and concede goals a lot (my example was Hoyte). Was Djourou so bad before or did he get worse after his loan spell? Shouldn’t judge a player after one game, so let’s wait and see.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Somehow I get the feeling that Diarra is going nowhere and Wenger is just teaching him a lesson. It’s not good for Wenger to let Diarra leave when Gilberto is playing so awefully. That would be putting all your eggs in the Flamini basket.
January 9th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Just a thought. Is it that all our youngsters (Denilson, Diaby, Walcott, etc.) look good when they are playing with the first team (Cesc, Hleb, Rosicky, etc. around) and not so good when none of them are around? I got that feeling at Burnley and it’s happened again now against Spurs.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:00 am
No man, sending out players on loan would definitely not be harming the players. actual playing experience in a compeititve league no matter how u see it is better than playing in the reserve.
that’s WHY they got this loan system at the first place. That’s why big teams are sending out their youngsters on loan, not just Arsenal.
Djourou did not impress in his first game back, actually half a game could be attiritubed to many factors than saying that it was because his confidence got killed playing on loan with a smaller side.
1. it could be because he’s plain simple not good enough. then on loan or not won’t make any difference. Same with those guys like Kerrea, Connolly. it’s not because playing on loan that set them back. Connolly was sold simply because he does not cut it here.
2. Back 4 work as an unit. It does take some get used to for any player to slot straight back into the defending line. And we were playing against Spurs’ FULL team, not their reserves.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:05 am
btw, if any young players going out on loan playing for a weaker side and they come back having their confidence trashed. Then we call forget about this player.
This game is not just about talent. If someone is so weak mentally, he would never cut it with a club like Arsenal. Swim or sink, gives him time, if Djourou eventually proved to be a sink-er, then I suggest let’s sell him to Tottenham Bottlers – where players like that belonged.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:11 am
Nipuna,
#38……I’m still easy about the next set of games without Toure. With Gallas, Sagna and Clichy we can accomodate a stand-in like Senderos. If Diarra hadn’t acted like such a goose we could have moved Sagna to CB and played Diarra at RB. Height not so good with that option, but lotsa bite and mobility. But given Diarra’s griping that probably won’t happen.
#39…..agree, in the doghouse, and don’t come out until you can behave.
#40…..I thought it’s more that the youngsters play better by themselves, unencumbered by returning short of a gallop ‘seniors’ like RvP, off-form seniors like Gilberto, and shell-shocked loanees like Djourou. If Dudu had started instead of RvP, Diarra (with good attitude) had played instead of Gilberto, and Song (accepting he isn’t here) had played instead of Djourou it may have been a vastly improved display.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:11 am
@ Nipuna #40: Yes, in a word.
Everybody gets all bent out of shape like their skin is on fire or something. This guy is shit, that guy is lazy, blah blah this, muck muck that.
January 10th, 2008 at 2:06 am
Andez, I am talking about confidence. Sometimes when you get back from loan, your confidence is so low that it takes some time to get back to your ability. I felt that was the case with Hoyte. Maybe, it was with Djourou too. I don’t know.
January 10th, 2008 at 2:07 am
Eduardo’s pass was sublime. Cesc would have been proud.
Walcott’s shot would not have gone in but for the deflection. One would expect better from a striker with pace.
January 10th, 2008 at 3:26 am
Vibe4aresenal 19, I get your point, disloyalty is probably not the appropriate word, but I ain’t writing an English essay, I think you are intelligent enough to get my point also.
It appears to me some people are little too harsh with the criticism and are all to quick to want to get on a players back and boot them out at the nearest transfer window when they are having a bad spell.
I agree with you, as I said in my earlier post Gilberto should be on his way out, we have more than enough competition in that position especially if Diarra stays, but I feel we need to show our players who have been loyal to the club and good performers over the years some respect.
Many good players stay at football clubs because they love the fans, because the fans show them love and respect. That also encourages them and helps them to perform better. Adebayor is a good example even when he was frustrating the hell out of the Arsenal faithful and missing too many good opportunities the fans were singing his name. He has come on leaps and bounds and he was recently talking about staying at Arsenal for life. Now if our fans were giving him the kind of abuse (OK sorry may I be being a little dramatic, criticism may be more agreeable word for me to use) that he used to get on this site then he would have probably left for Man U when they showed interest.
As for Gilberto being on the pitch, it was quite obvious he was not going to play Flamini, Diarra was dropped because of his attitude or he is on his way out so Wenger sees no need to develop him further. Therefore there is no one else to play that defensive mid role except he move Denilson there, Diaby join in the middle and maybe Gibbs on the left. But I would think Wenger saw Gilberto as the safer option especially as he was playing a “strong” Spuds side, unfortunately it didn’t work out that way as both Brazialians under performed.
January 10th, 2008 at 4:01 am
Diarra to Newcastle? Clubs agree 5.5m pound fee but player not too keen!!
Believe it or not. I could believe that Arsenal want to sell to Newcastle – little to worry them there. I can also believe Diarra may not be too keen on joining the managerless dismal underachieving club.
What a load of jolly nonsense any way you look at it.
January 10th, 2008 at 4:51 am
Gotta agree, looks a complete shambles. Personally I would like Diarra to stay, I think he can be better than flamini as a partner for cesc, though currently flam shades it on work rate and contribution to the team dynamic. But diarra has had some impressive showings, against Villa in the first half he was excellent, and displayed his ability to turn sharply and out of tight situations along with being able to tackle. Its been a long time since we have had an out and out tough tackler capable of winning the ball in the centre of the park, i thought diarra was it.
Has anyone seen muamba at Bcity, he’s been consistently doing well, I remember reading an article just after Viera left that he was being groomed to fill that role. He left for regular first team action, I think he could turn into another “Bentley”
January 10th, 2008 at 5:46 am
I think we’d all like him to stay but he’s doing all he can to get moved on
I agree though IG, I’d love the player beside Fab to be a proper nutcracker. The Flamster is showing some signs of developing that way, Diarra looks a natural. Whilst he has shown some of his quality, overall I think Diarra has looked what he is, a player needing to adapt to Arsenal.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:34 am
please remember that diarra did not moan in the “traditional” player way….ie. as a threat…..he actually made a DEFINITE statement saying he will leave right before the chelsea game.
the definitive nature of his statement is galling. even anelka and cole did not come out and make such severe statements – let alone on the eve of a big match.
conclusion: diarra is an utter and complete idiot. i can definitely see his career going down the drain. newcastle? man city? looks like another anelka to me. his decision making is very limited.
ps: gilberto is only playing probably because wenger thought a deal was about to be made just before the spurs game – because he had already said diarra was going to play the day before.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:38 am
If Diarra leaves, will it improve Gilberto’s game? Or do we add CM to the list of players to sign?
January 10th, 2008 at 6:41 am
compare and contrast:
diarra: had no preseason. had one on-form player ahead of him. just needs to wait a bit.
eduardo: completed pre-season. has 2 strikers in front of him. battling with bendtner and walcott for bench time.
diarra: starts moaning in SEPTEMBER !!!! less than one month at arsenal.
eduardo: keeps shut. struggles to make bench.
diarra: moans again in october.
eduardo: still struggling to make bench.
wenger: tells them that new plays only make an impact in the second half of the season.
diarra: i will leave! (note: definite statement – from a 22 yr old – JESUS DIARRA)
eduardo: cracks first team.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:43 am
gilberto should leave irregardless of what happens to diarra.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:54 am
By the way, Eduardo is really coming good. Not only 11 goals but already 4 assists. Excellent.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:56 am
Are the reports that RvP, Senderos and Djourou are injured true?
Why Wenger rushes RvP back into action, I don’t know. Had he completely recovered and still injured himself. In which case, he is fast joining the “made of glass” gang.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:17 am
One poor performance and we’re rubbish, that’s the way it works here right?
The whole team played poorly in an error strewn game for both sides. The only player to emerge with any credit was Berbatov and what a pity it is for Tottenham that he only starts playing towards the end of December. How many of that Tottenham side would even get into our reserves?
Cerny – Not better than Fabainski.NO.
Chimbonda – better than our 4th choice RB Hoyte, not better than the first 3. NO
King – certainty, but always injured. YES
Dawson – makes Senderos look like Beckenbauer. NO
Lee – nothing more than tidy. NO
Lennon – no better than Walcott, in spite of playing against our defensively immature LB. NO
Jenas -haha, ha hahaha. Remeber him doing anything other than tap in the goal and track Diaby back once. Spurs played long ball most of the game bypassing their midfield. NO
O’Hara – former Arsenal kid now aged 21. Caught in possession several times (by our own Denilson having his worst game). NO
Malbranque – clever, agressive player who got/gets into good postions. MAYBE
Berbatov – YES from December onwards (lazier than Diaby until then)
Keane – A nuisance because his poor first touch makes him unpredictable. Better than Eduardo? Hahahaha ha. NO
January 10th, 2008 at 9:03 am
I would think quite alot would get into our reserves Pirate. They wiped the floor with us last night and more than held their own against our first team( in extenuating circumstances) so I don’t know where you get this notion that their first teamers would not get into our reserves. You go on about O’Hara getting dispossessed by Denilson, but you write a freakin thesis on what Denilson did wrong.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:06 am
You COULD write a thesis..
January 10th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Your right though. On the whole Tottenham bypassed the midfield and let Berbatov make our defenders look like tools. Arsenal’s midfield was too square, which it always is when Gilberto and Denilson play together (Prague, Seville, Tottenham).
January 10th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Hey, all.
Nipuna, Theo’s shot looked deflected off the defender’s foot before it hit his hand. I don’t think we’ll ever know where it was going had it not been touched in the first instance, but Theo’s a pretty clinical finisher. Top goal, especially when you consider it was in front of their away support who were giving him stick all night. Love it.
And I agree with Andez (just like old times, buddy). This tournament is a run out for whomever Wenger feels he can risk and who needs the experience/match fitness. And still, Spurs, playing better than they ever have, couldn’t get past a reserve side that has been switched around in this run more than any side that’s not managed by Rafa. Right before Jens announcement, that was our THIRD keeper out there, in front a CB pairing that hasn’t played a single match this season. No wonder Berbac*nt was allowed to be jinky.
Seems to me, considering all the poor performances and moments up and down the pitch, we had it well in hand and dominated until we started trying to get ahead of ourselves and the lino let them behind the defense over and over and they got the goal. That’s pure inexperience. Our kids are trying to play over their heads sometimes and the passing got sloppy just at the time Spurs found their feet. At that point and a few dodgy onside calls later, we were too deep and on the back foot trying to regain our composure. We did ourselves no favors by forgetting the simple things that would have kept the tie more in our control. This will NOT happen at their sh*thole in the next leg.
The only real negatives (besides Diarra’s drama affecting his mates in the side) are the injury worries and Dj needing to shake the Brum stink off of him. Gods, he’s gone backwards and now he’s “injured”. Hmm.
Here’s hoping the experiment saw our big lads rested and ready run riot at the weekend.
January 10th, 2008 at 10:42 am
That’s what irks me about Wenger’s rotation system. We seem to be the team that rotates the most during a season, giving certain players two weeks off at a time, but yet we’re the ones that looked knackered around March and April. Chelsea flog Fat Frank in nearly every game and he still looks as fresh as a daisy when crunch time comes.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw another listless first half performance from Fabregas and Co on Saturday when they should be theoritcally chomping at the bit.
January 10th, 2008 at 10:53 am
A little early to call that I think, Mazza. It’s pretty easy to be fresh when you’re lumping it forward all the time. Losing Drogba might have forced him to move his lumpy arse a little more this season, but it still seems to me like they let SWP run it up the wings most of the time. Essien is also key to their fitness in midfield. Fat Frank hasn’t really had a great season.
The last few seasons we’ve had injuries that robbed our players of match fitness at crucial times, which can sap you no matter where you are in the season and force extra work for those covering. Look at RvP last night. He could only really manage a half hour. I know he’s considered “injured”, but its very easy to aggravate something if you’re laboring too much.
That said, I think we will be a little sluggish at the weekend. Hopefully the competition will be lenient enough for us to put together a few moments of brilliance. Eduardo and Ade please up front, and a little more protection in midfield from Flamini would do me nicely.
January 10th, 2008 at 11:15 am
Yes, based on last night, in their biggest game of the season to date their team played better than ours. I certainly wouldn’t say they wiped the floor with us, Berbatov aside, it played like a local derby where commitment was more important than skill. If anything I’d we were the better team in the first 20 and final 10, in between they played like Bolton with a luxe version of Kevin Davies (Ramos has done his homework!).
Be interesting to know which of their players people think would have a long term future at Arsenal?
Sure Denilson didn’t play well. As Mazza pointed out earlier he went a bit english and looked for the hollywood pass more than usual (perhaps a symptom of Walcott losing the ball every time you pass to him and Diaby playing a curious game). I think he got caught in possession twice and the game was far more about graft than class. Good learning experience for someone who’s played between 30-40 ’1st’ team games.
January 10th, 2008 at 11:22 am
I know, injuries usually play a big part in these months, but Wenger always says we dropped physically or suffered physically when it quite clearly isn’t the case. He’s probably just being diplomatic but sometimes it’s hard to be sure with Monsieur Arsene.
I still fear things will fall apart again Spring. We will get a few untimely injuries, Wenger will stubbornly rotate players, and it we will be out of all competitions in the space of a week. In my book it will still have been a good season though; a big step forward.
The jury has always been out on fatigue and rotation ever since we got knocked out of the Champions League and F.A Cup in the same week in 2004. Remember, we rested Henry on the Saturday to save him for Chelsea match. He played in the Chelsea, looked completely dead in the second half along with a few other rested players, and then played again 48 hours later and tore Liverpool apart in the second half. I derived after that game that alot of it is mental.
On the whole, I’m for rotation, but during these decisive periods it almost always backfires on us.
January 10th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Not in defense of the performances but remember that Djourou injured his groin at some point in the 1st half and Senderos also sustained some sort of injury as well 1st half. A fit Djourou will hopefully be a lot better!
January 10th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Great reminder, Mazza – “we will be out of all competitions in the space of a week.”
We get accused of over-reacting on this site, but only because people seem to forget how quickly an otherwise amazing season can go south. The domino effect of crashing out a cup, slipping in the league etc can be brutal.
The tension is in trying to read Wenger’s mind. He’s a genius, but he’s quirky and human, not to mention a little perverse.
We’ve watched him (and us) groan frustration, but often when he’s being trying to salvage games with hopeful bets like Aliadiere as the lone front man, or Luhzny/Cygan at the back, or sticking too long with aging, but no longer effective players (like Freddie, who we definitely sold a season too late).
It is the difference between being there or thereabouts, and actually winning.
The signs for Gilberto have been increasing all season – he took losing the captaincy badly, as well he should. But he didn’t respond by fighting his way back in. He’s effectively sulked.
It’s a shame Diarra had to open this trap otherwise he would have played last night.
The good news is we do have relatively straightforward fixtures coming up and the return of the A-team should paper over the cracks.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
i saw the walcott replay at least three times and i can’t see where it went off his hand. appeared to have bounced up abruptly and hit him in the chest/shoulder, but no handball. lucky, sure, but not illegal.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
When I say out of all competitions in a week I don’t mean to say it in a stroppy sense, blame it all on Wenger etc. The guy has done an unbelievable job this season thus far. I just feel the more we rest players during these hectic weeks, the more we replace consistent class with idiosyncratic unreliables, the greater chance of things falling apart at the seams.
Eduardo could be massive during this period. He gets goals when the team seems to be in a collective depression. Let’s hope he continues to remain blissfully unaware of all that is going on around him and poker-faces a few more keepers to get us out of jail.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
The second leg should suit us. Spurs will feel that they can win. The pressure will be on them. I still feel this will go to penalties.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Sissoko is close to joining Juve and Gilberto has said that he has no intention of quitting Arsenal and intends to remain “100% professional”.
January 10th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Arthur @ 47. We agree ‘disloyalty’ was a poor choice of words. (It’s not about writing an English essay, just communicating clearly.) But you still seem to believe such things exist, as you came right back and said…
“Many good players stay at football clubs because they love the fans…”
That sounds like the same kind of naive thinking. How many times have you heard a player swear undying allegiance to a squad, only to bolt the first chance they get. Come on now. Maybe a VERY FEW have stayed with clubs they feel some sort of attatchment to, but most go where the money and opportunity are. Playing and getting paid. That’s what they’re loyal to.
(And was does a discussion of ‘good players’ currently have to do with Gilberto, anyway? Do you really think if we wrote more supportively on here, he would play better? Since it was us, on here, you were criticizing?)
We loved TH14 for years, but last year, did he show loyalty to Arsenal? Or did he pout and complain? And then what happened? And how has that worked out for The Club? Would you rather we held onto Titi, out of loyalty, based on the past? Or are you happier the team let go, moved on and thrived?
The analogy to Ade is false, too. He was a new, young player clearly working hard and getting adjusted to a new league. Gilberto is an older player, who’s been here awhile, and clearly couldn’t be arsed at this point.
We support the club. When players play well, we cheer ‘em. When they play badly, for a long stretch, we are as entitled to express our disappointment. But we’re always watching, come hell or high water. That’s being a loyal fan.
January 10th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Gilberto: “This is what I have in mind, to get back in the team and hope I can achieve that as soon as possible.. But I know the team is playing well and so are the guys in my position, especially Mathieu. I will do my job, and I did that again against Tottenham which was another good opportunity for me to show that I am capable to come back into the team.”
Jesus. He hasn’t a clue has he? This isn’t the first time he has come out in the papers after playing appallingly badly and tried to hoodwink the nation. Or maybe his ego is so massive he really does believe he is playing well, and therein lies the problem. How can you make 50 stray passes and claim you are capable of coming back into the team?
January 10th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
By the way, Van Persie is the new Henry. More than once last night I saw him throwing his arms up because a player didn’t do this or that. It needs to be nipped in the bud, superfast – but being Dutch I don’t hold much hope of his attitude changing.
January 10th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Have you guys seen the the shirt on T-shirt365 that reads “I saw Gilberto pass the ball forward”. But, anyways, the slating this squad has been getting, you wont believe its almost the same squad (give or take a few players) that went to Blackburn and eked out a win in a gritty affair.
I know it’s the lot of a fan (me included) to be erratic and overreact. But a little persepective is needed.
1. Djourou just came back from loan and is not just easy to slot seemlessly at CB and be effective immediately. Having said that, I don’t think he’s ready yet, having watched him all season at Birmingham. In addition, CB’s don’t come into their own until their mid twenties.
2. The CC is intended to be a competion to develop Arsenal’s budding talents and 2nd teamers (with the exclusion of Gilberto, who is here to round out the team). Therefore, it is supposed to expose and reinforce the negatives and positives of these budding talents, so the coaches can work on them. If AW intended the CC to be a major competition, he would have been playing the 1st teamers all along.
January 10th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Danny @ 74, I was noticing the same thing about RVP. Really disappointing, as he had a good view of how the glowering TH hampered the squad (and how the team has prospered without it). You’re right, it needs to be stopped quickly.
Of course, as little of the pitch as RVP is seeing, perhaps they won’t suffer his stare all that much.
January 10th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
that is alarming about his attitude, but i do think RvP performed brilliantly a couple times early on, with some incredibly deft maneuvering. and walcott did completely miss him on that early breakaway, which would have been a sure goal. so maybe i can understand his frustration a bit.
January 10th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Just read that Luton sold 5 players to avoid further bankruptcy penalties. That is really unfortunate. It is too bad they couldn’t have held on to them for another week and allowed them to participate in the Liverpool replay. I thought they had a chance to beat them.
In spite of his abysmal performance, I would still rather have Gilberto play center back in the next few Premier League matches. He inspires a lot more confidence than Djourou or Senderos. And when he is in that position, he is a bit more no nonsense than when he is midfield. It is obviously far from ideal. But I don’t think we should move Sagna from where he is. And Hoyte is not the answer. Only other credible option is incorporating Diarra. He could play center or right and move Sagna centrally or just put Diarra in the middle. But he looks like he is gone anyway. That leaves us back with Gilberto by default.
January 10th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Younger players often follow the example of role models, so RvP’s mimicking Henry is not surprising. It supports my comments earlier about the impact Vieira had on the players under his leadership including Cole.
Hmm, I’d love Wenger to nip it in the bud, but I just don’t see it as Wenger’s style. He let’s players evolve and learn…….
January 10th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
The Diarra situation may still be in the melting pot. Wenger will make a call, does he keep him in the dogbox or does he take a quick profit (429% annualised, assuming 2m cost and 5.5m sale – not bad I guess).
Wenger is the only one who can make this call. He has to manage the guy.
I wouldn’t be surprised either way. Wenger may let him chill a while and then re-integrate him, or he may gauge that his head is too bent and realise a significant profit.
From a macro perspective what a goose Diarra is, he is at the emerging mega-club best reknown for nurturing young talent (and particularly French talent). He has struck gold by coming to Arsenal at just the right time, the 2 years of hard toil have passed and the team looks likely to start winning things. It has been increasingly obvious that Bert the only highly experienced DM in competition is on his way out. As a talented young 22 year old you couldn’t script it better and he does his best to walk away!!
Does he not back himself to compete with Flamini? Does he not think that Flamini and Sagna might not get injured, get sick, or lose form?
January 10th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
@ brendan: NO WAY. gilberto will be WORSE than senderos and djourou. he is the epitome of clumsy. he gifts the ball when he tries to control it. he finds the opponents regularly with a nice 10 yard pass. and he tackles by sitting on the floor and raising his legs in the air!!!! he MUST NOT be a defender.
oh and he is SLOOOOW too.
lets go for j. hoyte but am guessing wenger will stick with senderos.
January 10th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
as for RvP….no need to get worried. he WONT do that with Ade, Cesc, Hleb or Rosicky!! definitely not.
January 10th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
@ mazza: ofcourse our major players are more likely to look knackered. they have no ROUTINE means of success. they are “creative” therefore have to actually THINK to get anything.
the likes of ronaldo, lampard, gerrard, ljunberg, etc dont have to think too much ….they do the same thing over and over and over again.
if at YOUR work, you had to do something new every single day (while quite interesting) … you will get “knackered” much quicker than others who have more routine in their work.
January 10th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
He won’t do it with Cesc, Hleb, and Rosicky because, as he said, “these lads are class footballers”.
The difference with Henry is that he used to piss and moan even when players were making the right decision and trying to shoot. Henry just moaned for the sake of it. Whereas Van Persie has a right to moan when Walcott or Diaby just run into four players without looking up. These players need a bit of kick up the arse. Tough love.
January 10th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Well, then your talking mental fatigue. Because someone like Lampard runs miles per game trying to run off Drogba and get flick-ons all the time. I would agree our style puts miles on the mental clock.
January 10th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Yup Scotty, we are often in the same wavelength (LDE as well, my kind of mind!. Shame that you are not around here too often these days… : (
there was also a good point u brought up – if we are disappointed towards our players’ performance against Spurs, let’s try see it from their point of view – Spurs players must be absoultely GUTTED.
January 10th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Mazza/84 I agree with your tough love, in principle.
I’d just rather that stuff was left for the locker/training room. He can kick Theo up the arse while they’re looking at film together. On the pitch, during a match, it’s not a good look. Arsenal players don’t need to be showing up their teammates that way. Nothing constructive comes of it.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
with all due respect, how do you know what is or is not constructive criticism in the context of the team’s dynamics?
January 10th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
So called vibe4arsenal @ 72 you are an arguementative SOAB aren’t you? You have just pissed me off with your condescending attitude, so I am going to give you some of my own.
I didn’t need to retract the word disloyalty because even a 9 year old understands what that means no need for clarity; I was just trying to be diplomatic. However diplomacy is wasted on you. Loyalty means being faithful to, standing by someone or something through rough and smooth, good times and bad.
A nine year old also understands if you praise and make a guy feel welcome that you are more likely to relieve pressure and make them feel happy. However if you criticise that player he is more likely to feel under pressure, be unhappy and is more likely to under perform. Not rocket science kiddo.
I repeat MANY players stay at clubs because they love the club and have a good relationship with the fans in particular. Like everyone else footballers have egos and they like to be appreciated.
You keep talking about naivety, but you show your hypocrisy when it seems that you fail to understand that even though someone loves a club other circumstances can arise that becomes more of a determining factor on whether a player leaves or stays i.e. to keep it simple for you, the manager sees them as surplus to requirements or they are not getting paid enough. If a player leaves for those reasons it does not mean they are disloyal to the club it may well mean that the club is taking advantage of them. Again it does take rocket science to know if fans show appreciation a player is more likely to stay. Lets try to break it down for you; Jermaine Deflop wants to stay at Spuds because the fans adore him even though the manager wants him out. Henry is quoted as saying “It does not matter what will happen with my new team, I’ll never find the affection I was shown at Arsenal”, I bet he regrets leaving. Is that clear enough for you, no, I doubt it, you are too argumentative to admit that.
But let me expose you naivety a little further, Firstly if you know anything about football you would know Gilberto is a good player he is not the first choice DM for one of the best national teams in the world for nothing. When he played REGULARLY over the few last seasons it was obvious what a good player he is. He is not getting time on the pitch and he is going through a bad patch right now that’s all.
As for Henry, he used to complain and pout because he like Gallas used to doubt/underestimate the talent in our squad. We are thriving without him because our squad are taking on responsibility for themselves now instead of trying to use Henry as Mr Fix It all the time, and some of our players have definitely upped their game. Like Arsene I would not hold on to a player that wants to go, what has loyalty got to do with that (or are you just being argumentative as I suspect). I have being watching Arsenal a very long time since the days of Liam Brady, and Henry is the best player we ever had. He was instrumental in the most successful period in the clubs history, if the boy wants to leave after giving us the best part of his career we should let him go with our blessings. Even when he was moaning last season he was an asset to our team, look at his goals to starts ratio last season and you are naive enough to jump on the bandwagon and claim he hampered our squad, I bet you were also jumping up for joy when he scored the winner against ManUre last season though. Your ignorance makes me want to get derogatory now, but I will resist the temptation for now at least.
Lets go back to your naivety again as you claim my reference to Adebayor is flawed. As is said earlier players thrive on praise it increases confidence whether young or old, Adebayor or Gilberto or an apprentice or master. That’s one of the reasons teams thrive at home and why managers like Alex F complain when fans do not get behind the team. Again not rocket science.
And not even a fool would suggest that negative, often disrespectful comments on messages boards is going to affect players confidence unless they have the misfortune to read them. However it is fortunate some people are at their keyboard on the other side of the Atlantic rather than spreading their negativity to the players at the Emirates. If you want to “express you disappointment” express it, I will too when I am ready. If you want to criticise our players, criticise them I won’t stop you but you should not feel offended if someone criticises you for it.
I have finished condescending, and I have wasted enough time doing so, so I will allow you to have the last word oh Argumentative one.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
You sound like you need a hug, dude. Good luck with that!
(And if you ever need to define irony for a 9 year old, just show them your post calling me argumentative.)
January 10th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
@Danny T 74:
Not only is the attitude reminiscent of TH, but what I’m beginning to be afraid of is another similarity – injury prone.
January 10th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
I think of Gilberto argument, ppl are upset not merely because he been playing poorly, but more down to the fact that – we KNOW he CAN play better.
He had arguably his best season for Arsenal last term, and he’s only one year older this season, I just do not believe his game has declined so rapidly over a few months.
I believe he still got the ability, and he surely has the ability to do better than what he has done so far. But I start to wonder if he’s just like what DannyT describled – his heart is no longer here?
I remember Freddie last season, he was at the receiving end of a lot of sticks, but I supported him all the way. ‘cos I love the guy, love the guy’s attitude (on the pitch) in particular. i think deep in his mind, even before the summer arrived, he knew his days were numbered at Arsenal. But the man always gave his best, and ran his socks off everytime he stepped on the pitch. we can accuse him of being injury-phroned, or not the same player he once was, yet in terms of “commitment”, i don’t think anyone can accuse him of going through the motion.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:28 am
Interesting read – http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2239096,00.html
“Lassana Diarra admitted to Arsène Wenger that he was not in the right frame of mind to play against Tottenham Hotspur in the Carling Cup on Wednesday night, as he was preoccupied with his proposed transfer away from Arsenal.
The 22-year-old midfielder spoke to Wenger after training on Tuesday and suggested it would be in everybody’s interests if he were left out of the team for the semi-final first leg at Emirates Stadium. Wenger agreed and named Gilberto Silva alongside Denilson in central midfield for the tie, which finished 1-1.”
January 11th, 2008 at 1:20 am
WTF! RVP is injured again!!! Is this guy made of glass or what? Well I guess that means more opportunities for Dudu and Bendtner. Hopefully RVP will return soon and can remain uninjured for the remainder of the season because he is definitely one of if not our most effective player when fully fit.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:23 am
OK just read the thigh thing is not a big issue and he will not play because of a flu rather than the thigh injury. But still this guy needs to stay healthy already
January 11th, 2008 at 1:24 am
aha, thanks for the article nipuna….
there is a very high possibility that money is an underlying factor here. he is on around 40k per week at arsenal. newcastle agreed a deal with arsenal, but pulled out because diarra demanded 18 million pounds over 4 years…..which is basically 80k per week. LOL.
i was always wondering how a 22 yr old could be THIS impatient after only 4 months.
his 80k per week demand is the only thing stopping man city, newcastle and spurs from taking him already.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:42 am
hopefully this report is not true, otherwise this guy is worse than I thought. 80k per week? for what? he has not even proven himself yet. Yes, he has probably won a few caps playing for France, but from what i learned he has only 2 caps (one was a friendly), so much so that “I have played more games for France than Arsenal”.
until now, Diarra is all about “potential” and “highly-rated”, and he has the nerve to ask for 80k per week?!
frankly, i was excited just like everyone else when he signed, and still believe that he will become a quality player, but I won’t shed a tear to see the back of him though. as it looks to me he’s heading towards a “Le Sulk” “Cashley” path.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:46 am
Andez you’re right he was arguably our best player last season. I don’t think he is the type of guy to simply to loose heart though, he has being talking about fighting for his place in recent news articles check out goonernews.com or arsenalnews.net. I am sure if he had become disillusioned he would have done a Diarra and looked for a way out in the transfer window. Don’t believe the hype he is just having a bad patch.
It is so sad about Diarra though as I rate him highly. So, so impatient, he obviously has to go to a mediocre club then who has little or no competition for places to satisfy his ambition.
I hope Wenger has a good talk to him rather than just simply letting him go. You never know he might change his mind. He should look at Flamini as an example he nearly left in the summer, people like myself thought he did not have enough quality but he has proved us wrong and even displaced the “Invisble Wall.”
January 11th, 2008 at 2:22 am
Wow what a shocker £80,000 a week! Wow! But I think he is probably saying that because he does not want to go to Newcastle.
It is like saying to them the only way I would come to play for you is if you pay me £80,000 per week. He doesn’t expect them to say OK but if they did he would probably go. I doubt if he will demand £80,000 from Man City though as that is his first choice.
I should wish him all the best but I am not that charitable, however I hope he does not even consider going to Spuds, I doubt if he would be guaranteed a first team place there anyway. With the likes of Boateng (a big prospect in Germany), Zikora (we know about his quality) and lately O’hara.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
There’s no way he would ask for £80k per week. This is stupid paper talk, probably to discredit him, and I’m surprised you fall for this complete rubbish time and time again.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
danny, the guardian is not exactly a junk newspaper is it??
dont be naive.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
According to the article Nipuna referenced above, RvP is out because of the flu, not because he is made of glass which is a nice change of pace for him.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Considering on Wednesday the Guardian reported he had been “left out…which has come as a disappointment to Diarra”, then two days later reported Diarra “suggested it would be in everybody’s interests if he were left out of the team”, one has to deduce they didn’t have a clue what they were talking about in the first place.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Friday January 11th, Guardian “Newcastle did agree a £5.5m deal on Wednesday but shied away when Diarra demanded a four-year contract worth £18m.”
Arsene Wenger: “the club have not yet received any approaches”
More crap from your beloved Guardian.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Its really NO GOOD trying to second guess this stuff..is it? Frankly I’d be quite happy if DIarra went..he moans too much. You’re as guilty sticking up for him so much ..Danny..as a few are for Senderos n Denilson n the like(me included) .. what has DIarra done? Played a few great CC games? Well sure..so? The whole hoping against hope is doing no one any good. And AW always says stuff like that.You know it as well as I do..He even said he wanted Freddie to stay…and even Aliadiere!!! …now no disrespect to the guy but you just knew AW was lying there…so until it happens….or doesn’t happen…its a big waste of time…frankly.
And the sarcastic “beloved guardian” doesnt help either. When there are noises that Cesc is leaving…ummm…read…”I am flattered Real showed an interest”…then people will come here and moan that Cesc will leave. BUt now since we want it another way…its crap. cant have it both ways…can we?
January 11th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
danny, why do i get the feeling that you are just hoping against hope that diarra isnt in the wrong. lol.
as LDE said when it comes to transfers/injuries and match reports wenger LIES big time. up till today he will still tell you he didnt want henry, aliadiere, vieira, ljunberg, campbell to leave! thats just how he rolls.
your constant defense of diarra is astonishing. he hasnt done a single thing for arsenal. and thinking about it he hasnt done much for chelsea or france either.