Arsenal 3 – 0 Newcastle

January 29, 2008

No, it’s not deja vu all over again. Indeed, thanks to goals by Adebayor, Flamini (sick goal too), and Cesc, the Gunners beat Newcastle 3-0 for the second time in three days.

(Have to run into a meeting now… more later if Dan or someone hasn’t added anything by then)

EDIT (the next morning) – Right, well, no one’s added anything. No biggie. Everything’s pretty much been said in the comments below. Newcastle never really threatened, and to be fair, the Gunners could have been two or three up by halftime.

Mathieu Flamini was the outstanding player last night, setting up one goal and scoring another. The goal he scored was an absolute screamer into the upper 90 from about 30 yards out. A definite goal-of-the-season candidate to be sure.

Otherwise, the rest of the team weren’t really tested. Adebayor, like the song says, “Give him the ball, and he will score”. As for Cesc, well, it’s nice that he’s broken the duck. Perhaps now that he’s not thinking about it all the time, he’ll return to scoring a bit more regularly.

Saturday sees us travel to Man City. The Citizens are struggling as of late, so perhaps this is the best possible time to make this visit. Look for a preview from either LDE or Sachin later this week. Until then, enjoy being top of the table.

Posted by mikek | Filed Under Match Report

Comments

108 Responses to “Arsenal 3 – 0 Newcastle”

macmac123 Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Another solid bang-up job. Credit to Newcastle, they hustled and harried, without much hope of a shot on goal. Michael Owen got an uncharacteristic booking as his frustration grew – when you’re a midget who’s lost his pace, what can you offer in attack?
Flamini took another step forward from box-to-box workhorse. He broke on the ring wing to deliver a pinpoint cross for Adebayor to head home. Then in the second half, just as the 1-0 lead was looking a touch slender, he powered in a 25-yard shot across the area into the top right corner. Wow. (Admittedly, this “jensen” of a goal has come after quite a few surface-to-executive-box screamers, but well worth the wait all the same.)

The iceing on the cake was Bendtner’s touch in killing, then laying off a high ball for Fabregas to sweep home. Again, this came after Fabregas had sky-ed and shanked a trio of efforts. But the good news was that overall the team was functioning as a unit. Sendy was solid with a couple of minor slips. Clichy again was alert and dynamic, with some great driving runs. He kept Milner at bay.

Almunia only missed one shot – a Butt freekick that hit the bar, but if it had been any lower, he had it covered.

Yes, Hleb and Cesc still aren’t at their best. Diaby still gets in a tangle, but less and less. While Dudu lacked that vital half-a-yard of sharpness to bury some chances. But overall, this was a reassuringly solid performance, I thought, and a good springboard for snatching three points against Man City.
Andez Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
I think I noticed – Adebayor not only been scoring more goals lately, he has the knack on scoring “vital” goals.

I don’t simply mean he scored goals against Man U, Spurs, but the fact that he has scored many goals which to break the deadlock in a game. As we all known, if we take the lead in a match, life is gonna be far more easier for us. but somebody has to score the first goal. Ade has done it in so many occassions this season.
coach_ed Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Solid game all around. Flamster’s goal settled the game after a few nervy moments where you were wondering if Newcastle just might nick one even with all our dominance.

I’ve been impressed with how players on the fringe last year or even early in the season who were slated time and time again by us have risen to the challenge when given a steady run in the team.

Who would have thought Flamini could ever make it into the first team? But Wenger stood by him and he’s been terrific. Diarra? Forget the punk. He’s got some nice skill on the ball, but you really cant criticise Flamster’s distribution, positioning and all out hustle He’s not an exceptionally incisive passer but he rarely gives the ball away cheaply.

Adebayor. Everyone plauded his workrate early in the season but complained about his finishing. Who’s complaining now and who would have guessed he would become the new Drogba….and like 6 years younger? His confidence is soaring and we are starting to really play to his strengths.

Clichy. Perhaps he grew into his role last year, but when Cashley left, werent we all very nervous about this position. His contribution and consistency have been a vital part of our success.

Eduardo. I thought this guy might be a bust because he lost the ball cheaply almost everytime he touched the ball early in the season. I was worried he had the same iron touch as Baptista. But as he’s gotten a run of games, he’s holding the ball much better, gained confidence, is starting to run at defenders and creating opportunities. His stock is definitely rising.

Diaby. Slated time and time again yet his last two performances have been very solid, if not spectacular. He isnt giving the ball away so cheaply and starting to pick out a few decent passes. He isnt holding the ball so long but always looks dangerous with his powerful shooting ability.

My point is that we are all too guilty of writing off fringe players based on very few performances and we really should be giving Wenger some more respect to his decision making. No one is perfect but there are a lot of players that have risen to the occaision when given a decent run in the team.

Imagine how good Arsenal could be if we were allowed to play a reserve team in the Championship (like in spain) and give our youngsters and fringe players more playing time.
ChicagoGooner Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Well, Man U is at home tomorrow, but lets hope Pompey can at least keep them in check. With a 3-0 victory for us and Man U playing a team like that, this is a great opportunity for the goal difference to be lowered if nothing else.
jestanley Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Out of our midfield players, there’s only one who wasn’t involved in any of our three defeats this season (Sevilla, Boro, and Spurs). Not Cesc. Not Hleb. Not Tom. Flamini. Coincidence? Well, yeah probably. But he’s still been excellent for us this season, and I hope that contract gets finalized soon.

@Andez: I completely agree. Ade’s been instrumental countless times in breaking that deadlock and giving us the freedom to play teams on the break. Love the new song, too.
Andez Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Anyone has doubts of Diaby’s talent obviously don’t know much about the game.

It’s so easy to see why he’s been struggling – playing out of position, and being in and out of the team, you never be able to get into rhythm. The critics though, naturally, ignored all these.

nevertheless, I do start to wonder whether he’s the “right” player for Arsenal. Clearly his best position is central midfield. cos he never got the pace to trouble full back playing down the wing.

yet put him in the CM, he would become a liability to our defence. he doesn’t has the required defensive skill nor the workrate to cut it there as a DM to go along with Cesc.

i don’t know what’s on AW’s mind, is he planning to play Diaby as LM forever? that will not be a good thing for either Arsenal or Diaby.

it’s a shame really. To me, he’s a “50% version of Vieira”. whan attacking, he’s the closest thing u can get to Vieira. the gangingly presence, the dribbling skills. Yet defensive, he’s nowhere close to Paddy.

in modern day football, u cannot possibly go too far as a Central Midfeider without the ability to defend.
DannyT Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
For those who missed the game:

Almunia (6) Had virtually nothing to do
Sagna (7) Easiest 90 minutes of his life
Gallas (7) Mostly untroubled
Senderos (6) Some sloppy distribution, otherwise ok
Clichy (8) Dealt with Milner well, his pace can cope with anything
Hleb (6) Still looks ineffective on the right
Flamini (9) Great assist, superb goal, was busy all night
Fabregas (7) Scored a goal, otherwise worked hard but wasn’t very creative
Diaby (4) Virtually anonymous. Will never get the best out of him on the left we need a natural left midfielder in Rosicky’s absence
Adebayor (7) Good headed goal, just want you want from the big man
Eduardo (6) A bit quiet tonight

Subs
Bendtner (7) Looked really good when he came on, set up Fabregas beautifully and created two more chances
Gilberto (6) Adequate
Walcott (5) Only had 5 minutes
coach_ed Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
DannyT-

Why are you slating Diaby? I thought he certainly was better than a 4. The jury’s still out on him but today he linked up well, tracked back, held the ball in some tight situations, got off some decent shots. Certainly as good as Gilberto (6), Eduardo (6). Give the boy a chance. I was a big doubter but his last 2 performances were much better and I think he might improve if given a run in the team.
DannyT Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
I just didn’t see enough of him. Midfielders need to do more for me than short, square 5 yard passes all the time. I didn’t see any shots tonight, no through balls. I like him as a player, but he’s had much better games than tonight.

He’s wasted playing left midfield, I’m not really sure if he’ll ever improve significantly out there. He’s a direct player who needs to play centrally in my opinion.
DannyT Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
I don’t see the need to play Fabregas in the middle all the time either, if he’s playing poorly, drag him off and put Diaby there. If he wants to rest Fabregas why not start Diaby in his place, move Hleb to the left and play Eboue/Walcott on the right.
Andez Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
I also thought of this idea – putting Diaby in the central alongside a DM when Cesc needs a break.

that’s probably the only realistic way for Diaby to make it here unless he improves his defensive side of the game.

yet there is still a downside, that with this current Arsenal playing style (let’s face it, it’s a bit different than our class 2004), Cesc’s so vital to our game. He basically needs to be there every game in order to control our passing tempo, linkup play, or makes a throughball to our forwards.

Diaby is very much a driver, a dribbler. He could power forward with his strength and dribbling skill, but he cannot pass the ball as well as Cesc.

In short, his directness (same as I felt with Walcott) seem to fit our class 2004 type of football better than class 2008. Back then, our game was like one touch, two touch, three touch, then bang. Goal!

u imagine Walcott playing there alongside Henry, or with Dennis fed the througball. With so many space ahead for him to explore, it would be heaven for Theo.

yet today we become a shorter-passing team which requires a lot of short passes and patient. if a player is a more direct dribbling type of players like Diaby and Theo, life is bounded to be more difficult for them than the players who’s comfortable with passing.
goalcentre.com Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Good game gunners. For those who missed the match, here is the Highlights:-
http://www.goalcentre.com/arsenal-vs-newcastle-united/
DannyT Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
I think Wenger will trust Diaby more in central midfield in future, but is probably just letting him play as many games as possible first. There’s no long-term career for Diaby wide-left.
arthur3sheds Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Great post Coach_ed @ 3

I for one never thought Flamini was good enough for Arsenal, but he has proved himself to be indespensible. I watched him closely against Newky in the FA cup, defensively he was outstanding wining the ball like his his middle name was Vieira. I noticed he has an eye for goal last season, he scored quite a few for a DM more than Vieira would. His two crosses in this game was also surprisingly brilliant for a DM.

I was also nervous about Clichy, although I have always rated his attacking much higher than Cashley. I noticed his knack of intercepting is second to absolutely no one, however I was scared that he was not good enough defensively. I don’t believe their is a better defensive LB than Cash, despite his poor performances for England. However Clichy is so dependable nowadays that there is no way I would swap him for Cashley or anyone.

Eduardo was always going to be quality once he settled in I don’t think that was in doubt really but I did not know he could dribble play incisive through balls and assists. I have been pleasantly surprised at how much more he has to his game than goal scoring.

Ade’s contribution to the team has always been evident if people could see past his poor finishing (at that time). However his finishing has improved somewhat, he has always been good in the air but I don’t think he should be compared to Drogba. Drogba is one of the best finshers in the game, I think Ade gives a team more than Drogba but he is not yet as clinical.

Andez makes a good point Diaby defensively is not up to scratch yet. But I think it will improve when he moves to CM, over the two games I noticed he has made a few good interception/tackles but he doesn’t seem to have the strength in the legs to win enough balls. His passing has been criticised but it has never been I weakness that I have picked up on other than him being too optimistic with his passes on occasion. However the two raking cross field balls today were outstanding something that is beyond a player that cannot pass the ball well.

The only one we have not mentioned is Phil. He has had a good couple of games only made three glaring but minor errors. He cannot be faulted although he does not have my trust yet as I think he is too nervous and may never develop the mental strength to be dependable.But then again he probably will, Tony Adams is a good example of this he wasn’t called Donkey Adams out of affection initially.
Brendan K Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Very pleased with the victory and 3 points. I thought our performance was decent. Newcastle on the other hand, was atrocious. I think the only fancy football Keegan has brought is some wonderful back heel work by his goalkeeper. They are a terrible team. The only player on that squad that I like to watch is N’Zogbia and he didn’t do that well today.

The back line and Almunia didn’t have much to do today. But I thought Clichy and Sagna were excellent going forward.

The midfield was a mixed bag. Diaby gave the ball away several times. For a guy of his stature, he doesn’t play very physically at all. Hleb and Fabregas played well enough. I am expecting both of them to step it up as the games start getting bigger. And Flamini was excellent. I loved watching him boss around his own teammates. He seems to grow in stature all the time.

Ade keeps delivering. There isn’t much more you can ask of him. He works hard and bags goals. Eduardo still seems a bit off pace about half of the time. He absolutely skinned his defender in the box once. And a few minutes later he looked like Baptista and dribbled over the end line without much pressure. I am still glad we have him though. His poaching instincts are something we can use.

I am really looking forward to these next four games. I feel like Fabregas is just waiting to break out and start dominating again. Hopefully that goal today will juice him up further. We will also have the AfCoN crew back and perhaps even a healthy Rosicky and Van Persie.
arthur3sheds Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Danny you are partly right, Diaby became qiute anonymous, but only in the second half, but I do not blame him totally for some reason we did not play him in on the left. However if you didn’t see anymore than five yard passes from him you was not paying enough attention to the game, maybe you went out for coffee or should I say tea! when he passed those pinpoint crossfield balls to set up two attacks to our men out wide. I think they were both in the 1st half and one of them led to one of Flamsters excellent crosses. Diaby had two good shots on goal if I remember correctly one in either half.

I agree he could make a good replacement for Cesc when Cesc is off colour but he is not a genius, Cesc is. We would have to rely on him running at the opposition like he did in the CC final to create the kind of openings Cesc can. However I would fancy him to play alongside Cesc on occasion if he could develop his defensive abilities, or else he will always be a squad player with very limited playing time. I would like him to be able to play both the Cesc and the Flamini role when needed, I think he has the potential to be a DM but I repeat he needs a lot of work on his defending. Remember Flamini was not an out and out DM when he came more of a CM, he used to run around like a headless chicken hustling but not winning the ball much.
Andez Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
arthur3sheds, i really hope Diaby does improve in his defensive side of game. I enjoy watching him play, particular the way he dribbles round the defenders. and he got every physical attritubes to make it in EPL.
Andez Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
of Senderos, he may not be a top class central half, but he’s not as bad as the preception neither. at the beginning of the season, some wondered why we loaned Djourou not yet not Senderos. as i said at that time, the coaching staffs knew what they were doing.

there must be a reason AW chose him as our 3rd choice CB in the pecking order.

but i think big Phil faces the same problem as other finge players like Denilson, Diaby, Theo. It’s difficult for him to progress as good as we hope when u r in and out of the team all the time.

that’s why i think Flamini’s success is important, if we manages to keep him, from now on AW will be able to point to Flamini as an inspiration to the kids if any one of them feel like moaning of “lack of first team chance” again – that as long as u keep working hard, u will get ur chance.
Mazza Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Functional performance against a poor Newcastle side. Let’s see how Man United like them apples tomorrow night.

Almunia 7- Looks totally at ease these days. Did very well to sweep up a throughball in first half. Has he found God or something?
Sagna 7- Solid and dependable. Not the first time we’ve said that this season.
Gallas 7- Again on cruise control. All that’s missing is the cigar.
Senderos 7- Did well but a few shaky passes under no real pressure. Watch this space.
Clichy 7- Owen must be sick of being made a fool of trying to close him down.
Diaby 6- Another underwhelming performance. Unlike Walcott though, he doesn’t look completely out of his depth in first team company.
Fabregas 7- Being overshadowed by Flamini at the mo. Still his B game is better than the A games of most other midfielders.
Flamini 8- Really is coming on and his offensive game and overall hustling is more than compensating for my perceived doubts his defensive mobility around the D.
Hleb 6- Like Fabregas, the basic template of his game contributes effectively to the team in the absence of his top form. However, his lack of ambition going forward is worrying. Can’t remember the last time he tested a keeper.
Adebayor 8- Probably a 7 game really but the fact he got the opening goal puts him in the MOM category. Was that his first headed goal at the Emirates?Another box ticked off.
Eduardo 6- Looks aclimatised to our passing game but he still frustates to a degree, suffering bouts of paralysis when receiving the ball out wide. Overall though, he is doing well.
Kiwi Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
The Flamini/Fabregas combo is developing really nicely.
Both players are hard workers and both have a physical edge to their game. Fab doesn’t need a minder as such, he needs a guy who compliments him and it looks more and more like Flamini can do that rather nicely. Going way back Wenger commented on Flamini’s incredible engine. We are finally seeing him put it to meaningful use on the vast Emirate pitch.

BK #15 I too have loved watching him direct operations from CM. It just looks to me like he is a guy who has ‘arrived’ as a part of this team. Every champion team needs the workers to compliment the glamour players – and Flamini brings this attribute.

With Diaby, I’m not sure what Wenger can be doing except giving him max game time to restore his confidence physically.

It’s nearly February, the boys have been through a rough couple of months when their game hasn’t been on song BUT notice the energy in the team. The chasing of Ade, Flamini & Clichy was tremendous. In fact pretty much the whole team displayed high energy – the benefit of a young side – not a team of old pros who want someone else to do the running.

I have to say Clichy is looking phenomenal.
arthur3sheds Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Yep Andez got it right again. Flamini is now a role model Diaby has underlined his commitment to fight for his place rather than chicken out like LD80k I suspect Flamini has inspired him as well as Gilberto. I think Gilberto is a role model too, if a Brazilian international can wait on the bench so can Abou and anyone else waiting for their chance.

Also I was one of the short sighted ones that rated Djourou more highly than Senderos, however I have watched some highlights of him on loan at Birmingham and was not impressed, thus i have to agree “Arsene knows”.

By the way if you want to see Arsenal Live on the internet I suggest you use TVU Player as it more likely to have English commentary, however this link will provide you with all channels on the popular players once you’ve signed up:

http://arsenallive.ning.com/
Or http://www.myp2p.eu/competition.php?competitionid=&part=sports&discipline=football
Andez Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
thks for the link arthur!
Fred Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
nice, warm win. the best thing about this game was that two midfielders scored. goals from midfield are absolutely VITAL….no team can win the league by relying just on the forwards.

hleb is continuing to irritate with his total disinterest in actually doing something substantial. he was faced with a leftwinger playing as a leftback and he absolutely refused to enter the box or do anything DIRECTLY dangerous.
its one thing to try and fail, and its another to be totally ambitionless.
so basically, he has the ability yet refuses to be vital. what a shame.

he NEEDS to buckle up and take responsibility. we need a lot of that against the likes of Milan.
Kiwi Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Reading what Keegan said about the new appointments including Dennis Wise and comparing it to the structure and success that Arsenal enjoy make me laugh.

It sound oh so simple. But the key is having a Board and manager that have the patience and belief to see it through.

Do Newcastle present as a club with the belief to be committed to such a policy? To go out and buy the best youngsters for years and develop them until they finaly start coming through to the first team? Accepting that a significant proportion will never make it at your club? And will they reject the pressure to buy big and let the young players who do show promise come though?

It’s a long-term project, requiring long-term commitment.
nipuna Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Ade continues to sizzle.

The most satisfying thing in this game was goals from midfield. We need others to score and it’s great to see Cesc and Flamini do it.

I had hoped that Eduardo would score in at least one of the last two games. If only to quell the growing concern that he doesn’t score when playing with Ade (except vs West Ham). I guess his time will come.

Can you imagine Flamini not signing a new contract? Is it really a coincidence that he was absent in all our three defeats this season?
Kiwi Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
At this stage Hleb is more a creative midfielder playing wide than the wide attacking player that we usually have in the Pires/Ljungberg mold. He has a fear, an aversion of attacking the box or shooting.

The more I think about it the more I reckon the following formation may ultimately be the way to go:

……….Dudu….Ade
Hleb…Flamini…Fab…RvP

With this formation we have 3 real goal-scoring outlets supported by Fab and the Flamster. We aren’t relying on Hleb to do what he can’t. Rosicky then competes for a spot. I know Dudu is still adjusting but the truth is Hleb looks as averse to attacking today as he did when he first came.
Andez Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 12:20 am
@24, good point kiwi. everybody knows AW’s way of buying cheap and youth is the best way to run a club. but it doesn’t seem that anyone else is doing this.

i think the reason is simple – u gotta first achieve a result to offer u the platform in order running the club the way u wanted.

AW got a double in his first full season in charge, that took the pressure off him. Even then, he couldn’t have told the board i am gonna selling off all our stars and build with youth.

It’s only after the unbeaten season his status in the club became rock solid. Then he EARNED that luxury to run the club the way he wants.

of course, your point of the role playing by the board also is vital. so Arsene Wenger and Arsenal basically are a pair made in heaven. I don’t think he would have that luxury to run the team the way he wants in any other clubs in the Premiership, not even Man Utd (the pressure and expectation would be too great from fans there).

on the other hand, Arsenal is also lucky to have hired AW. With the board’s traditional tight spending policy, I doubt it would still work with any other big name managers in charge. I m pretty sure Mourinho, Rafa the likes would be moaning nonstop in order to sqeeze the money off the board for them to spend.
nipuna Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 12:24 am
If Rosicky is fit and playing regularly, he will score more goals. I think that’s what Wenger had in mind. Unfortunately, Rosicky is mostly injured and he also usually a few games to settle in after a break.

I don’t think RvP on the wings will work. For me, the answer is another winger who is more attack minded and goal scoring. Wenger is trying to see if Diaby can fit that role and Vela is another option to try out.
Wayne Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 1:18 am
Great game for an Arsenal fan..enjoyed watching every moment of it.

Adebayor is a changed man…..gone is that bad first touch and the lack of control….i hope this is a permanent change ..great header.

Flamini was the engine in the midfield….that goal was a screamer…but the assist to Ade for the first goal was equally good.

Overall a great team effort…the defence looked rock solid..though Senderos did have a couple of ‘Senderos’ moments..but to be fair to him…i noticed them only because it was Senderos

Regarding Diaby…a whole lot od discussion about him…but as i said before….i really rate this guy and his last few performances have shown small signs of improvement with each passing game….It’s very rare that Wenger would continue to persist with a player whom he feels has nothing to contribute to the team…so i’m pretty sure that Diaby will show some rapid improvement soon just like Adebayor, Flamini and Song. One of the commentators during the game was saying that Wenger was playing Diaby on the left to improve his “Vision” and Left foot shot…and his long term future is in the center of midfield….i’m not sure from where he got that piece of info but it ties up well with what joshuad (i think) has been saying all along about Diaby

Top of the table and the pressure is now on Man Utd.

Cheers,

Wayne
nipuna Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 2:45 am
Looking ahead to the fixtures

Feb 2 -> Man City (A)
Feb 11 -> Blackburn (H)
Feb 16/17 -> Man Utd (A)
Feb 20 -> Milan (H)
Feb 23 -> Birmingham (A)
Mar 1 -> Aston Villa (H)

We have no mid week games before the double header vs ManU and Milan. Enough time to rest and field strong sides in both games. After that too, we have no mid week game between Birmingham and Villa. Enough time to rest after the double header. Let’s go for it.
Kiwi Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 3:23 am
Andez your right, Wenger needed to establish his credentials, to achieve success, and thereby win over the boards support before adopting rare strategies. When he first joined Arsenal it was a high risk appointment for the club, but Wenger was successful quickly, and the club has always had a mature Board who know how to back a manager.

You gotta love the Board/Wenger combo. Notice there’s no talk of a takeover now

Nipuna, I wouldn’t have thought RvP would move to the wong either. But……
- he plays in a wide role for Holland.
- Ade has taken the opportunity and nailed one striking position
- was Dudu bought as a back-up only? If Dudu becomes a regular where does RvP fit in?
- for me the jury is still out on Rosicky in terms of durability, influence and goals

….I’m just chewing the fat on this
thompson gunner Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 3:29 am
One of the most enjoyable games of the season.Great spirit on both sides until Flam broke their backs.

Squad is beginnng to gel again after disappointing match against Birm City (i’ve already forgot about the cc exit) – upcoming schedule is indeed interesting.

Nothing to slate today for sure – a lot to look forward to, starting with Man City which could be a great game.
Fred Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 3:39 am
@ 28: err, i dont think u should expect anything significant from rosicky even when fit. if you remove all the goals he has scored this season guess how many points we will have?? we will still have the 57 we have right now. all he has done is improved our goal difference by 5.

even last season the only goals he scored which were “take the lead” goals were against l’pool in the FA and hamburg in the CL. nothing in the league really.

so a goalscoring winger is something wenger should really look to bring in cos rosicky aint the answer. but i am sure he is waiting on vela…or/and gouffran.
Fred Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 3:44 am
well, kiwi plays up front in a 4-3-3 for holland….a formation wenger never uses unfortunately. Van Persie doesnt have pace so will be limited as a winger. there is nothing wrong with competition, let bendtner and ade battle it out and let RvP and eduardo scramble for their spot. the competition will ensure nobody sits on his laurels. i can assure u that ade wont relax knowing that bendtner will do anything to take his place. imagine if he only had walcott as competition? LOL
Fred Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 3:49 am
@ 29: yeah, diaby is starting to use his left leg a bit….he took a couple of good shots with his left yesterday…and that was good to see. he attacks the box with purpose….unlike some of our other mids!

ps: it is nice to know that Song is getting regular 90 minutes for cameroon at the ANC. that will only improve him and give him even more confidence. he is one i am definitely looking to see more from at the club.
Kiwi Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 3:55 am
Yeah, your right Fred, the Dutch play a different formation – but I think the line-up I suggested could work. At least with RvP back we will have greater options and another real goal threat.

I’d be surprised if Wenger added to our playing resources this xfer window, aside from the ‘normal’ purchases of young talent to replenish the pool. Vela has impressed in Spain, so Wenger is likely rubbing his hands at the prospect of adding him to the 1st team squad next season. With RvP coming back and Eboue returning from the ANC he is likely to be happy with his options for the remainder of this season.
nipuna Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 4:34 am
Fred/Kiwi, I am not impressed either with Rosicky’s contribution. I was merely pointing out the way Wenger would have planned it. But it hasn’t gone to plan thanks to Rosicky’s injury problems. When that happens Wenger doesn’t panic and sign a new player, he just plays somebody else, Diaby in this case.

As Fred pointed out, Wenger has Vela and/or Gouffran/Gibbs/Randall coming through, so he may just be using Diaby as a temporary arrangement (which hels Diaby get playing time). I wouldn’t be surprised to see Diaby used more centrally next season, especially if Gilberto leaves.

I still don’t think Kiwi’s formation will work. In a 4-4-2, the winger has to do a bit of defensive work, something which RvP is not famous for doing. Unlike RvP for Holland and Ronaldo for ManU (as Josh pointed out), who have full freedom to roam and not do much defensively.
joshuad Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 6:26 am
Boys, Flamini is getting better every single game. His progression has been phenomenal. People have mentioned they rate Diarra higher but I don’t see it; especially not after a performance like last night’s. With Vieira out, I think Flamini get’s the nod ahead of Diarra for France. Maybe Flamini’s form is the reason Diarra really left.

As for Diaby, no one has ever questioned his skill. But there is a definite difference in last night’s performance compared to the other games he’s played this season. Last night, he played for the team, not himself. I believe someone has had a sit-down with the young Frenchman and let him know that it’s about the team not him trying to showcase his talent. Last night, despite being less than stellar, he looked focused on making the right decisions. I also saw him make more tackles last night than he ever has. Long may it all continue because with his ability, we could have another Kaka in him.
DannyT Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 7:16 am
I must admit, Flamini was superb last night – it takes the edge off of my disdain for Diarra leaving. I used to think Flamini was just another Ray Parlour – running around like a headless chicken and passing badly, but he’s much better than that.

When you see his improvement and Adebayor’s massive improvement, you only have to wonder what improvement we have yet to see from Diaby, Denilson, Walcott, Traore, Bendtner, Eduardo. More big leaps from all of those are a given. How can you train with these players day in, day out and not get better?

All we require as fans is patience. This can be the best Wenger team of them all. When the unbeatables did their stuff, most of the players were reaching their peak – but Arsenal have lost 1 Premier league game this season, and most of these players are nowhere near their peak. This is a wonderful sign.
Mazza Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 7:38 am
Fred, for the umpteenth time, Rosicky scored the winner against Wigan at home, the equaliser against Bolton at home, and the opener against Man City at home. When he was fit last season, he scored goals. This wasn’t often though.

And his league goals against Bolton, Portsmouth, and Wigan this season allowed us to retain composure and not be hoofing balls out in the last minute trying to hang onto leads. Especially important in the Portsmouth game when Senderos got himself sent off. Portsmouth were creating chances when we had ten men. Thank god it was 3-1 instead of 2-1 at that point.
Diarrwho? « 7am Kickoff Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 9:04 am
[...] gust of hot air. Well, actually I’m not sure it was the central air, it could have been the bloviating over at Arsenal America that raised the temperature in my [...]
Wayne Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 9:11 am
@Fred…Regarding the point about Rosicky…I think you are being a bit harsh on him…I’m not a big fan of him..but he does contribute something extra to the team when fully fit. This season I see Rosicky as the Hleb of last season…mostly indirect ‘assists’…contributing to the team effort but not really noticed. I’m willing to give him one more season …. You only have to see Hleb’s transformation this season to see what a difference a year can make

And regarding the reference to his goals…that’s like saying that if you remove Bacary Sagna and Gael Clichy out of the goal equation….we would still be on the same level of points ..Granted that it’s a less than perfect example …but what i’m trying to say is people can contribute a lot to the team even when not scoring goals or meaningful one’s at that

Cheers,
nipuna Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Do you know how many assists Rosicky has this season? 0. Does that surprise you? Sagna and Clichy have 4 and 3 assists respectively, in the league alone. I don’t think there is much debate that Rosicky hasn’t had much impact this season.

What I like about Rosicky is that goal vs Fulham. Can you imagine Hleb throwing himself about to score the 3rd goal vs Fulham late in the game? It is such things that encourage me to think that Rosicky can make an impact. But sadly he will get injured the very next game. If it continues this way, we may never see the best of him.
DannyT Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Rosicky is a decent player, but he’s never really impressed me since joining the club. Good worth ethic and scores a few goals, but overall his contribution has been fairly poor.

He’s only had one full season at the club though, and injuries have been persistent. I’d give him until the end of next season, but if things stand as they are now, get rid while he’s still worth something.
Arsenal vs Newcastle United Highlights | Goalcentre.com - Soccer Highlights and Videos Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
[...] Adebayor set the tone for Arsenal when he crashed his header to give Arsenal the lead 5 minutes before half time. [...]
joshuad Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Rosicky didn’t impress you, big deal. Neither did Hleb, Gallas, Flamini, Adebayor, or Almunia before this season so impressing you means squat. So what Rosicky doesn’t put up big stats. Does that make him crap? That wound infer that Vieira was crap as well. Only a monkey would use statistics to determine a player’s contribution to the team.

So what, his goals don’t always win games. They often truly settle games. Opponents knew that after Rosicky’s so-called insignificant goals that there was truly no way back for them. Like Mazza said, there’s a difference between being 2-1 up and 3-1 up. I respect those goals and the team plays better when Rosicky’s on the pitch than not.
Mazza Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
The reason why Rosicky doesn’t really get any assists is all down to his style of play. He usually does three things in an attacking move:

1) Stays deep and threads ball through to runners i.e Fabregas against Tottenham for Adebayor’s first goal, and Fabregas against West Ham to set up a Eduardo.

2) He runs up to the area and waits to pass to the overlapping Clichy or he squares the ball across to Fabregas or Sagna on the other side.

3) He does one of his outside of boot shots that test the keeper or go wide of the near post. Often leading to a corner.

When Rosicky is fit he is probably our most direct and dynamic midfielder in terms of attacking the box. However his best quality is shielding the ball around the halfway line, sometimes with three players circling him, and moving the ball on to players in space. A hugely important and underrated ability which is vital to an Arsenal side that likes to build the game a create a momentum. He is not perfect by any means but Arsenal are a considerably better side when he is there.
live_dont_exist Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
There is a difference in the score Josh…but its hard to argue against the fact that Mozart has not been as influential as he could have been. Still I like him when he’s on the pitch but primarily for his chasing down people all over the pitch and his excellent work ethic. His passing and attitude are very good as well…so I guess you could argue that when he’s on..irresepctive of his goals we’re a better team.

The only thing that hurts as far as I am concerned wrt Mozart is his poor form in that post Aston Villa spell when we were poor. He wasnt able to grab the game by the scruff that time. Yes I know Cesc n Hleb n Flam were missing…but Mozart was below average those games…sadly.

I like Mozart though…and love his little triangular passes with the other two guys…I hope he makes it but I’m not really sure how if he keeps getting injured so much. Don’t think Hleb got injured so much either in that “off” year. Still hopefully he’ll do well next year and contribute in our big games this season at aleast. That’ll do for me.
Fred Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
i think its fair for rosicky to get more heat because:
1) he is a major player at the club
2) in the whole PL he is probably in the top 5% talent-wise
3) he is at his prime and has boat loads of experience.

for these 3 reasons he deserves a bit of fire up his bum. he is no spring chicken.
at this age and with his experience and his undoubted talent he should be doing far more than this.

as with hleb it isnt even really just about the goals, it is their general “indirect” manner that irritates me. they are the most talented players on the pitch yet they rely on less talented players around them to actually make the assist! that is just not right no matter how u look at it.
Fred Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
anyway, it doesnt really matter because rosicky will stay until he decides to leave himself. all i want really for him and hleb is some more creative competition.

just a little heat up their arses is what i am asking for.

if a young buck with great speed and control was on the bench fighting to come in i am sure they will start being more than just the oil in the arsenal machine.

competition will double their performance and ensure they take games by the scruff….and after a few months of that they will probably headbutt their younger rival and proceed to score a hattrick in the next game!!!
Mazza Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Fred, I agree with alot what you say. Both of them irritate the hell out me with their inability to realise the guy they are passing to is of lesser ability or that they are not in that good of a position. Like Hleb last night, when he got the ball at the end of the first half and immediately played a clueless throughball to Adebayor when should have dribbled the ball. His balance between dribbling and passing is skewed at the moment. The opposition know that he is going to pass now and that is half the battle lost.

However, I don’t put players in a hierachy in terms of whether they are a ‘major’ player or not. I just see what they bring to the team. Not every player can be a Thierry Henry or Zidane. There are very few players in world football who can do what they do, or have the mental capacity pull the team up by the bootstraps. Rosicky is a team player. He doesn’t pretend to be anything more.
nipuna Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Isn’t it unfair that we are willing to wait for two full seasons to see experienced and talented folks like Hleb and Rosicky to produce their best but are unwilling to do the same for youngsters like Diaby, Denilson and Walcott?
nipuna Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Wenger is willing to wait. Both Denilson and Diaby have now signed new contracts.
SToneD_emirate_hooker Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Nothing profound from me.

I went and saw geriatric “Rambo” slaughter a hundred men at the cinema and came home to watch the Arsenal – Newcastle match on our “tivo”. Guess which I enjoyed more? Well let me put it this way, I enjoyed the one were I didn’t have to dismiss reality.

It was like going out to eat hamburger and coming home to eat a creme bruyere for desert. Sweet.

Flamini’s goal was awesome and he deserved nothing less for his efforts. When things are working the Arsenal play such beautiful football and this year with them playing more direct, with the resulting goals, it has been such a pleasure.
live_dont_exist Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
@#52: Thats a great point actually. And Theo gets slated at 18….at 18….18…sheesh.. and DIaby and Denilson and Clichy at times … and Adebayor … oh wait…
coach_ed Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
@35

Alex Song. Another future puzzle. I’ve been watching Cameroon just to see how this kid does, especially after his MOTM performance in the CC Cup versus Blackburn. I was a bit disappointed he started on the bench for the first game, but after Egypt ripped through Cameroon in the first half, he came on as a sub in central midfield. He totally changed the game with a bit of steel and a bit of calm passing. In a way he reminded me of Gilberto. He doesnt run around like Flamini, and stays a bit more anchored in front of the defense but he can pick out good simple passes that help the team keep possession. I would have preferred to see him in defense, but at least he is getting a run.
He can definitely handle and pass the ball well for a central defender. We saw that in the CC Cup and I am definitely seeing his influence on Cameroon.

This ability brings me back to Senderos. Everyone likes to bash Sendy’s defensive abilities. Personally, I think his defensive skills are adequate, perhaps might develop to be very good with more experience. Most people have opined that he had a good game vs Newcastle. But for me, my biggest concern about Sendy is his inability to pass the ball when we are in possession. He looks so uncomfortable with the ball and teams can pressure him into mistakes. I actually think he’s a decent defender in the air and in the box, but time and time again his poor passes (and I count clearances as well) put pressure on our back line. He just doesnt have the ability to play out of trouble like our other defenders and that is vital for our team because our midfielders like to get up the field to support a counterattack when we win the ball. If you watch Gallas play, he could easily slot into midfield on many teams just with his ability on the ball. So too could Toure. From what I’ve seen, Song has these qualities. But I just dont see Sendy making the grade unless he improves his ball handling and ability to pass the darn ball.
ryecatcher773 Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
of the subject for just a mo…

does anyone here outside the UK use Setanta, and are the matches broadcast on there? I’ve been subscribing to ATVO for a while now, but rarely (if ever) do they show matches live.. just the audio. And I don’t have cable so watching the matches on Fox SC aren’t really an option most of the time.

Thanks for any input
Sachin Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
I wasn’t expecting any favours from Pompey, but they could have held out for longer than 10 min. No surprize on who scored United’s opener. Just when Ade looked to be getting closer to the top of the scoring charts…
arthur3sheds Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
@ Ryecatcher, check out post 21.

Wow Fred and Mazza are still on the Rosicky arguement! How many days has that been going on for now, looked like you guys were never gonna let it go. But I am surprised Mazza has actually agreed with Fred, post 51, now I believe pigs can fly!

No seriously, I agree with you both on Hleb, he has gone back to the Henry days where he just refuses to take responsibility. Passes or takes an extra two three touches when it is clear he should have shot, I thought he had got over all that indecision this season. Hopefully Wenger will point this out to him as it is quite an obvious fault, and as we know he is a fantastic player but frustrating at the moment.

However I don’t think Rosicky is guilty of the same thing, he will shoot when the opportunity arises and is generally a better decision maker than Hleb. Unfortunately he has not been as consistent as we would like, but do not doubt his quality, he will shine.
thompson gunner Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
ryecatcher773:

Setanta Broadband – so far they have broadcast almost all Arsenal matches that are not on FSC. I don’t get Setanta on my TV (have to have a dish) and pubs in my immediate area are quite unreliable.
Unfortunately, Setanta Broadband is a pay-for-service – monthly or annual.
Advantage is that games are archived for later viewing, so if you miss it live, you can see it at your leisure (but 300 dpi, not 600 dpi).

Alternative is to watch the games with SopCast for free. One website is below. Advantage is that it is free (legal? I don’t know). Another advantage is a game like our last FA Cup match against Newcastle was viewable on the website below (with english commentary) – wasn’t on Setanta Broadband or FSC – only Setanta PPV (and may pubs charged a cover).
Disadvantage is that there is not archiving, so you have to see it live or not at all – a problem for me many matches.
http://livefooty.doctor-serv.com/

An alternative is to watch the ga
SToneD_emirate_hooker Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
In Canada Rogers TV-Cable carries Setanta and for a $15cdn monthly fee we get to see almost all of the Gunner matches except FA Cup, CL CUP matches. I’ve been waiting for Arsenal TV (provided by Setanta) but as of yet have not seen any sign of it to date.

I swore that I’d never pay for a channel but alas I’m a soccer whore. When they promised us everything Arsenal, plus every match that whore became very attractive… damn them. Now I can get half-baked and watch almost every EPL match, that is if my pimp would let me.
joshuad Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
I think I understand your angle now, Fred. But ask yourself what makes one player inferior to another? Hleb’s ball skills vs. Eboue’s pace; who’s inferior? Rosicky’s link-up play vs. Diaby’s power; who’s inferior? Senderos’ aerial ability vs. Toure’s pace; who’s inferior?

Each player has things that they’re good at. Nobody does everything well. You can’t just say “well, he’s got better ball skills so he should be scoring more goals”. It doesn’t work like that. Pires can finish shots that Rosicky can’t. Ljunberg has the pace to get by people that Hleb doesn’t.

You can’t just cut and paste players and expect the same return. That mentality is why France embarassed themselves in the 2002 World Cup. Zidane was injured so instead of employing new tactics to get the best from that team full of superstars, their lazy-ass coach decided to just throw Djorkaef out there and expect him to do what Zidane does. Well, Djorkaef can’t do what Zidane does. It doesn’t make Djorkaef crap as we all know better than that.

It’s about team chemistry more than individual players. How else could France explain having the top scorer in the EPL, Serie A, and Ligue 1 and still not score a single goal in 270 minutes of soccer? However, if you have good chemistry then you can have the top scoring team in the BPL, like Arsenal does. Hleb and Rosicky are important to that chemistry so I say let them do what they’re good at. They’re contribution is getting us wins. I’m not interested in seeing futile endeavors like Hleb trying to beat Ashley Cole for pace or Rosicky trying to overpower Micah Richards. Screw the stats, give me the three points.
macmac123 Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Totally off topic, but am I the only enjoying Cashley’s tabloid downfall into a “sickening” stream of lurid revelations, infidelities, paid abortions. This guy has betrayal in his blood.

Hope his form goes to shite and he winds up being offloaded to Sp*rs in a year.
Andez Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
I recall Rosicky was one of the relatively “bigger” names quite many were calling for (AW to sign him) before he joined us. Of cos, when he actually put on an Arsenal shirt, it’s a different story now.

It just goes on and show that “every man thinks other dude’s wife is prettier”.

So the next time if anyone feels like calling for a “star” singing, thinks twice.

to be fair to Rosicky though, the stats itself does not reflect his contribution to the team. I believe there are more still to come from him. While at the moment, he’s important to our attacking build up play. It may not look that obvious. but believe me, if he’s out for a long time, his significance to the team will show.
Sheed Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Totally agree with Josh on post #62
Fred Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
@ andez: how many were harping on about signings on here really? or specifically how many were harping on about “big name” signings? only stag lol.
Fred Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
@ josh 62: you claim you understand my argument yet you are still talking about goals and stats. its about taking responsibility for a team in which you are clearly the most talented.

“screw the stats, give me the three points”. well hleb did not contribute more than say diaby or clichy to our 3 points.

fabregas scored only 2 goals the whole of last season….but yet he TRIED very hard…so he gets no flak. hleb doesnt even try. and no point saying he “cant do it”. he did it for a short while at the beginning of this season. he attacked the box with purpose. right now he has NOT shot at the keeper in the last 5 games and he is an AM!

the duo oil the arsenal playing style. but style wins nothing sadly.
i KNOW hleb and rosicky can do far more than they are doing right now…its a total waste to be very talented and just be a lubricant!

they are acting like factory workers when they have the brains to be the engineer designing the darned machine.
Andez Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
I m sure more than just Stag back then Fred. at least that’s how i remember.

It’s only until the team started playing well this season the “let’s buy who and who” talks starts dying down. But I m pretty sure once we find ourselves struggling again, the same old thing will start it all over again.
Fred Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
LOL @ lilypool. in the summer their fans were talking about how it was now a big 3 with them in it ofcourse. LOL.

we removed henry, gilberto and lehmann….they blasted 40 million on torres, babel, benayoun and some random folks. we are now 17 points ahead of them even with their pathetic game in hand.

when will chelsea lose? they are really starting to annoy me.
Fred Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 12:07 am
@ 68: well i cant remember anyone else. as for me, when eduardo came in, all i wanted was a winger …actually i didnt even want reyes to leave.

tho i can remember one dude called “ballack4arsenal” who used to even talk more shit than stag! LOL.
Andez Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 12:29 am
oh yeah, i remember it too! who constantly slated off van Persie.
live_dont_exist Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 1:16 am
It’ll all start to happen again…a vast majority here have clamored for new signings…in different quantities and positions…all it’ll take is 2 losses in a row or a screw up in a big game by one position…and it will ALLL START again…and no it was not just Stag….
joshuad Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 3:27 am
What does most talented mean?

Some people have an instinct to make something happen when going gets tough but does that mean they’re more talented? Conversely, some people are superb technical players but does that qualify them as game winners or natural leaders?

In the NBA, Robert Horry (World Champion with Rockets, Spurs, and Lakers) was not the best player in the world but if he gets the ball in the clutch and you give him a look at the basket, he’ll shoot your eyes out. We’ve all seen him do it many times. Because Horry’s won so many championship games, does that make Kobe, Shaq, or Tim Duncan’s contribution to the team insignificant? Was Kobe silly to pass to an inferior player when he was clearly the most talented player? It’s about the team chemistry.
joshuad Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 4:01 am
I’ve argued so many times that it’s hard to get goals from a wide area but you don’t seem to believe that. I looked on the Premier League site for top scorers and guess who’s leading the way for wide midfield players (Ronaldo’s a striker)? I’ll give you a hint, it’s not Arteta or Osman or Giggs or Joe Cole or Bentley or Wright-Phillips or Kapo or Babel or Benayoun or Kewell, or Ashley Young. Another hint, he’s from Czech Republic and he’s Arsenal’s current number 7.
arthur3sheds Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 4:16 am
Josh you are right, but Hleb is underperforming at the moment, Fred is right also.

Hleb needs to return to his more direct aggressive approach to have that impact he did at the start of the season. He is “whimping out” and refusing to take responsibility like he did all too regularly last season. If you look over the games since he returned from injury all too often you will notice that he refuses to shoot when he has the opportunity and it is the best option or he tries to pass when it is so unlikely that that pass is going to get through, poor decision making. I can understand why Fred is frustrated. Although I don’t agree that he should take more responsibility simply because he is talented or that he doesn’t try but although he is not a natural leader he does have the ability to be a game winner with the right application.

By the way great analysis @62 Josh… you got it spot on.
DannyT Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 8:22 am
Midfielders need to be scoring goals and creating chances, that’s their job. They’re not there to just make square passes, tackle and simply oil the machine, they need to do that and more and have a big effect on the game. They need to be threatening, pushing the opposition back. You don’t want to be applauding Rosicky for helping out Clichy all the time, you want to be applauding him at the other end of the pitch.

If you want to win major trophies, you can’t do it unless you have top class wide players providing goals and assists. No-one is saying that it’s easy, most clubs don’t have these players, but if you’re one of the top clubs in Europe, as Arsenal are, you need quality guys on the flanks that are going to make a real difference. If they don’t, you can kiss goodbye to winning titles or the Champions League, because at the very highest level you need more than just 1 striker scoring 25-30 goals to win you major trophies.

Rosicky was already considered a top class player when he joined Arsenal, in some respects, a lot closer to the finished article than the young players who require more patience. The fact is, he hasn’t done what is required for a club of Arsenal’s stature – in all honesty, Reyes was far more dangerous, and people had doubts about him too.

I still think Rosicky can come good – and I would describe as ‘useful’, but if he keeps getting injured all the time then we should look for an alternative instead of trying to put square pegs in round holes (Diaby). If this time next year Rosicky is still getting persistently injured and not hitting his stride, Arsenal should probably just give up on him.
joshuad Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 9:06 am
The truly frustrating factor is we know these guys are capable of so much. It seems as if they should be more dominant. But neither are typical wide players with loads of pace. Like I said earlier, everyone isn’t good at everything and pace is a quality that Rosicky and Hleb simply don’t have. What are you going to do?

It’s true that Hleb isn’t as dominant as he was earlier this season but he was playing in the hole behind the striker then. It’s much easier to influence the game there than in wide areas. Ronaldo is dominant too but no one would say his influence is best felt out in the wide areas.

Sure, I’d like to see these guys be more direct. I wanted to see Gilberto be more aggressive after Vieira left too, until he started getting all those yellow and red cards. Aggressive is not what he’s good at. Is that his fault? Is it Hleb and Rosicky’s fault that they’re slow?

I said in the summer that we should have kept Aliadiere because while he may not make it as a striker, he, along with Eboue, would do well in the wide areas and provide what Fred was asking for, a young buck with great speed and control. But they can’t create plays like Hleb and Rosicky and they give the ball away a lot more so what are you going to do?
Mazza Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 10:16 am
The only other person I can recall who consistently asked for more signings- apart from Stag- was me. And I haven’t quieted down during the season when we have won. In fact I often make a point of airing criticisms straight after a victory so I cannot be accused of slinging toys out of a pram after a defeat. i.e the Villa game.

Andez, you seem to be a broken record sometimes dredging up these cliches of what people supposedly say and when they say it. It’s similar thing with Senderos. Countless times people slate Senderos even when Arsenal have not conceded goal in the games he has played, yet you acccuse people of waiting for Arsenal to lose a match with Senderos so they can ‘I told you so’.

I still think Arsenal should make signings but it gets a bit tiresome repeating views day after day. Look at our midfield depth at the moment. Giberto, Denilson, Walcott, Eboue, Diaby, Song. Now that’s a bit disturbing. You could maybe throw one of them in and get away with it but anymore than that I’m not sure.

By the way, that Ballack4Arsenal guy was hilarious. I think his criticisms of Van Persie were tongue in cheek.
arthur3sheds Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 11:19 am
Josh you’re right he did play most of the opening games in the hole, therefore came from a central position, maybe that is one of the reasons he was more effective. However if you listen to commentators/critics complain that we play too narrow. That is because Wenger seems to have a policy that urges our midfielders to cut inside and join the attack (with the intention for us to score more goals from midfield, because like you said wide players usually do not score often). Our wide players, especially Theo, Hleb and Rosicky not so much Eboue do this constantly, as a result our width comes from our wing backs alone. If our WBs are pegged back for whatever reason i.e defending a threat such as Ronaldo, Lennon we end up with no width. As such Hleb does have to opportunity to be more aggressive, when I say aggressive in this context I mean ATTACK the goal, be more direct, get at them, shoot for crying out loud, take a man on rather than shirk responsibility and whimp out by playing an almost impossible pass. Sorry I suppose aggression may be ambiguous therefore the wrong word to use

As regards to Rosicky I have no complaints, he does what he needs to when he needs to do it, obviously sometimes like everyone else he has a bad day and is not as consistantly great as we want him to be. But injury free and on form Rosicky will always be effective. Maybe I am missing something but I do not consider or Hleb or Rosicky to be slow, they do not have blistering pace of Walcott or Ronaldo but they are by no means slow.

Hopefully Grouffon (sorry can’t spell his name) or Vela will be good alternatives to Eboue, Rosicky, Hleb and Walcott. I don’t think Van Persie, Eduardo or Alliadiere would be or would have been the answer.

Mazza you can be sure Ballack4Arsenal was just having a laugh, a real provocateur, I love ‘em! Great fun.
Andez Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Andez, you seem to be a broken record sometimes dredging up these cliches of what people supposedly say and when they say it. It’s similar thing with Senderos. Countless times people slate Senderos even when Arsenal have not conceded goal in the games he has played, yet you acccuse people of waiting for Arsenal to lose a match with Senderos so they can ‘I told you so’.

No Mazza, I didn’t accuse PEOPLE of waiting for Arsenal to lose a match with Sendros so they can ‘I told u so”….. I only accuse YOU.
Mazza Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Well, then as I explained, yout talking crap. Because I don’t wait for Arsenal to lose a match.
hakyn Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Dont mean to rekindle the argument but here’s my 2 cents: My problem with Tomas isn’t that he doesn’t score but that he gets injured too quick. He may not be the goal scorer some of you want but I think he’s contribution to the team is more than average on the average. Someone here mentioned that when Tomas scores it signals the end of the road for the opponent – I like that. I also don’t have any problem with Hleb.
The deal is these guys are doing enough right now and we all seem to think they are good enough (or have the potential to be good enuf). I think we’d like to ensure that they continue to do enough (or more than enough) in the future (but this is soccer not insurance). In any case healthy competition (the same way Eduardo/Bentner have been unleashed on Adebayo) will go a long way to ensuring that these guys remain on their toes.
btw, I’ve learned to not read some posts here b/c they’ve become predictable. Win or lose, every other game some dudes repeat the “Tomas is useless” refrain like it was a sweet love song
DannyT Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 1:35 pm
I don’t think anyone has said Tomas is “useless”, that’s the sort of comment that sparks annoyance in others. His persistent injuries are a nuisance, I think he can be a very good player if he could just get 5-10 consecutive games under his belt. But if he’s going to be in and out all the time, even though it’s not his fault, I feel we need to buy someone who will hopefully be more reliable rather than using stop gap options all the time.

As for Hleb, it’s quite clear that he is not the same player wide right, he looks much better to me on the left or through the middle – but he still makes things happen; he’s had a pretty good season so far.
hakyn Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 1:46 pm
maybe not ‘Tomas is useless” but close enough. Like I said in my previous post, I dont intend to start a war/tirade (I prefer vim vs emac wars). Like you, DannyT, I also think his injuries are his (and our) biggest foe not his goal scoring abilities (or lack of). But the transfer deadline is closed so let’s stop moaning about stuff we can’t change and get on with the inevitable
Fred Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 2:44 pm
so hakyn, if we are not calling out underperforming star players or slating one of the kids what should we be doing on an arsenal forum?

on an arsenal forum, there is pretty much nothing else to say. we all know there will be no transfers so nobody even goes there LOL.

the reason arseam is popular (relatively) is that it is the only arsenal site where there is constant “talk” on – even if its mainly just rubbish to kill time.
Fred Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 2:52 pm
@ josh: yeah hleb is better in the center…but he cramps cesc….and when the going gets tough he runs to the touchline like he did agains pompey. he was even playing wider than eboue! LOL.

the wing is just a starting position. nothing stops you from cutting inside and moving into the center. 90% of attacking midfielders play on the wing. kaka, ronaldinho, messi, etc. usually start on the wing and cut inside. that is modern football.

in the prague match that we won by 7 or 6 goals, hleb started on the wing. and he controlled the match from start to finish, he attacked the box relentlessly. and he looked like the best player in the whole of europe. so its not like he is useless on the wings.
Fred Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 3:14 pm
randall and gibbs have gone out on loan. the beginning of their departure? or some playing time so they can make an impact next season?

clichy has been called up for france. finally! as well as every single one of our french players. i wonder if flamini might bench diarra for the NT as well, if he continues playing like this he will!
Mazza Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Wenger was probably pissed off with their nothing performances in the youth cup against Liverpool. These two regularly play in the reserves against men so it’s pretty poor form to not impose themselves against a bunch of scouse 17 year olds. Even though Liverpool have a good record in the youth cup.

I think it was Wenger who compared Gibbs to Ryan Giggs. Honestly, I had to laugh about that. The kid is not in the same stratosphere as Ryan Giggs. Giggs at 17 was terrorising premier league sides.
Fred Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 3:38 pm
u know even if we dont buy mids or strikers in the summer and let eboue, gilberto go, our depth still looks good. with merida and vela getting work experience they got just provide the challenge to rosicky/hleb.
randall and gibbs are also toughening up in the championship. so thats good.

going 3 deep, our squad for next season is:

striker 1: adebayor, bendtner, vela
striker 2: van persie, eduardo, walcott

RM: hleb, vela, randall
CM 1: fabregas, diaby, landsbury
CM 2: flamini, song, denilson
LM: rosicky, merida, gibbs

RB: sagna, hoyte, djorou
CB1: gallas, song, djorou
CB2: toure, senderos, hoyte junior
LB: clichy, traore, gibbs

GK: XXX, almunia, fabianski

CONCLUSION: if vela and merida can come in strong and all our players can continue their gradual progress, we dont really need to make any buys in the summer.

only the goalkeeper position will be iffy. but if we win something this year i am sure wenger will stick with almunia.

things are looking good!
coach_ed Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Interesting factoid @74 that Thomas is right up there in terms of scoring leaders for wide players. Given how little he has played, its nice to be up there.

I dont mind Rosicky being in and out of the lineup, as much as the fact that we currently have a big dropoff when he isnt fit. While Diaby had some very improved performances in the last 2 games, he isnt the answer yet. Perhaps Vela will prove to be that tricky left sided winger many of us have craved.

I forced myself to watch ManU play Pompey. I hate to admit it but they looked awesome and we would LOVE to have RONALDO on our team. One thing they have over us, though, is in their squad depth. They are much freer to rotate, while we are generally stuck with our starting 11 for our EPL ties. Yesterday they played Nani and Park Ji Sung in the wide roles and gave Tevez and Giggs a rest (Ronaldo roamed but played more centrally). They seem to regularly shuffle their midfield amongst Scholes (when fit), Carrick, Hargreaves and Anderson. I notice they tend to stick with Hargreaves and Ando when they want more bite and try to keep the game tight (against us, for example, and prob in their Euro fixtures) while at home when they figure they can attack more freely, they use Scholes and Carrick… neither who are good defenders but who both are very creative passers.

It would be nice if we had a few more options for the first team, which means we need our current bench youngsters to improve by next season or to buy 1 or 2 more quality individuals.
coach_ed Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 3:59 pm
By the way, Clichy got his first senior call up to the France squad. I dont know if he’ll actually get a cap in a qualifier given that Evra is ahead of him in the pecking order, but he deserves to go to Euro 2008.

He’s been a total revelation this year, and if he just improves his final ball and decision making after his 60 yard runs down the field, he could become one of the best left backs in the world.
Fred Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 4:00 pm
mazza: why are u surprised he compared gibbs to giggs??? if you were a dad, wont you big up your son and tell him he is next big thing? you can not imagine how wenger`s words will really boost the young lad’s confidence.

as for the alleged “nothing performance” in a one off youth cup match. you are ready to decry YOUNGSTERS for a one-off even though they have been playing very well over and above their level for a year or two now. but ofcourse being sent out on loan and the last day of the transfer window means wenger is pissed with you…..and not because wenger wants to give you more exposure (?)

just goes to show you know NOTHING about being a manager or coach either in football or in “real life”.
groovehouse Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 4:36 pm
@67

“they are acting like factory workers when they have the brains to be the engineer designing the darned machine”, nuff said
Sachin Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Been reading rumours that Defoe will go to Pompey and Benjani would then move to Man City. Why on earth would Pompey want to give up Benjani for Defoe? Can only be for money but Pompey don’t appear to need the money yet?
Ofcourse, still a few hours left before the transfer deadline, so might be just rumours.
Mazza Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Steve Bould criticised them as well, and was very disappointed by their performance. If they hadn’t of lost, Wenger would not have sent them out on loan.

Anyway, chill out, your hankering for arguments is getting disturbing. I get involved in a few but you just seem to invent things to argue about. Who gives a shit about player pyschology and man managment, wasn’t even talking about that. Just stating that Gibbs doesn’t really bear any resemblence to Giggs apart from the fact they’re left-footed. As for boosting his confidence, if anything, Gibbs will be under increased pressure from Norwich fans to play like the Welshman. We’ll see if he responds to it.
jizzyk Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 5:04 pm
off-topic: according to moratti, inter now have their Pato…this kid looks excellent.seems like the italian teams are now investing largely in youth.i remember anceolotti saying he wanted to re-create the milan academy and structure the club a la wenger.seems to be the way of the future.wenger the revolutionary!

i would prefer to play AC over Inter at the moment…looking at inter’s squad these days they looks immense.despite their lack of a European pedigree they are without top dogs in serie A.liverpool are doomed at the moment.the inter team we played in pre-season are a shade of the team they have become.

ramblings aside…these rosicky criticisms are frankly absurd.he has been at the club less than any of our other established midfielders and you can clearly see his progress this term.we miss him when he’s not there.best sign of an improtant cog.and that is for a player being played out of his position.im not saying he’s the best we have or he’s a pires but he definitely adds to the team.nuff said

dont think randall or gibbs will make it.too lightweight.lansbury and some other english lads(g.hoyte,emmanuel-thomas and others) will make it but our new focus on english academy players will probably have come too late for randall and gibbs
jizzyk Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 5:05 pm
oh the link to balotelli
http://www.d1g.com/video/show/1739511
Mazza Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 5:14 pm
As for Rosicky criticism’s Jizzy K, that’s Fred for you. Looks for the bad in the overwhelmingly good, and the good in the mediocre. Strange philosophy. The better player you are, the more your at fault for Arsenal’s ills. And you better not get too indepth in terms of playing style and team mechanics, he only understands football when explained in terms of goals and assists.
Fred Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 5:39 pm
@ 98: on the contrary, i have always been of the perspective that to “whom much is given, much is expected”. so while u will batter the hell out of a 17 year old gibbs, i look at under-performing 27 year old instead. history and facts show that it is the “major” 2 or 3 players that win you the league.

i dont really care about goals and assists as much as attitude and responsibility. attacking the box and taking “possession” of the team. fabregas had this last season yet failed to get goals. i didnt slag him off.

playing style? team mechanics? guess which of us was using these to give reasons why we would do well this season while you were all negative. HA!
Mazza Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Yeah, and the two players who play a massive part in our playing style and dynamic is Hleb and Rosicky. As Wenger said after the Fulham, those two players along with Fabregas, are on the same technical wavelength and they make playing football ‘look easy’ the way they interchange positions. Last season you said Hleb was shit and should be sold after the Liverpool game, and this season you still refuse to acknowledge Rosicky’s importance to our game. So our whole offensive midfield dynamic would probably be long gone if you had your way, and probably be replaced by Gouffran and Babel. What a tit!

And what other dynamics and reasons did you give before the season to suggest we would challenge. Did you predict Gallas would be a brilliant captain scoring goals in the last minutes of game, did you predict Flamini’s upsurge in form? Or Sagna’s solidness consolidating our defence? No, you didn’t, no one predicted this. I predicted we could challenge if Hleb and Rosicky stayed fit. Looking at our games played with and without them this season, that sounds pretty credible, considering we played a great first half without Fabregas against Villa.

What were your main reasons for our success? Van Persie being golden boot or something? You were completely obllivious to the Rosicky/Hleb axis so you’ve got your prediction right so far while being completely oblivious beforehand to the possible reasons behind it.

My big error was not thinking Fabregas would score as much as he did. At least I can admit that and not hide behind carling opta statistics to save face.
Fred Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 6:54 pm
last season hleb played like shit. if u dispute that then u are an idiot and we should just end the argument here. even then all i said was we should buy competition for his place.

hmmm let me see:
- i said we would be at least second or at worst 3rd.
- that adebayor would be a monster. i wanted a 100 dollar bet with stag.
- that eduardo will be inzaghi-like and reach 12 goals.
- that RvP will hit 20 goals if fit.
- that Fabregas, Hleb and Rosicky will reach 8 goals each.
- that reyes will explode if he stayed with us.
- that we would CONTINUE to create the most chances in the league.
- that we would CONTINUE to outpass the whole league.
- that gilberto has no real value to our team.
- that if we got 10 out of our first 15 points the propulsion might get us the title.
- that our “major” players hleb/rosicky will have to “carry” us over the finish line.

you predicted 6th place. and at halftime in every single match you predicted a loss. now who is the git? sod off.
Mazza Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Keep making things up Fred, keep making them up. I didn’t realise I hit such a nerve with the accuracy of my Hleb/Rosicky argument.

I still maintain we would be struggling to finish in the top four without Hleb and Rosicky. Fabregas himself said he is not the same player without Hleb. And you didn’t say just competition for Hleb, you wanted him gone. Ask Joshuad if Hleb was shit last year , ask ArthurSheds. Ask Arsene Wenger, who said earlier on in the season that “Alex Hleb has been with us for two years and only now people realise how good he is”. If he was shit, why was a regular for the whole season? Football doesn’t make allowances for uniniated, and your assessment of him last season showed your lack of knowledge up. He was frustating at time yes, but nevertheless vital to our team. His improvement this season has been marginal as well, which shows your acknowledgment of him this season is more to with following the crowd rather than any enlightenment on your part. Even now you can’t wait to get on his back if he slips a little.

As for the rest, big deal. Do want a gold star? Talk about stating the obvious.
Fred Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 8:07 pm
——–”keep making things up” ???

this coming from a guy who LIED point blank that he watched hleb and rosicky as 17 year olds in belarus and czech rep. LOL.
my comments have not been deleted so go look them up. its not hard to do.

——-”ask joshuad, ask arthursheds”
why mention other people’s names in you argument?? a great argument point from you.

——-”ask arsene wenger”.
but you are same guy who blasts wenger for playing flamini…yet on the other hand u qoute him. LOL. why did he play all season? hmm…off the top of my head because he had NO competition.

as for hleb my impression grew more positive after he WON us a couple of games almost singlehandedly in september.
Fred Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 8:07 pm
someone complained there are never enough posts up here after a win. wrong!
Kiwi Says:
January 31st, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Hmm, things don’t look too flash for Rafa.

After a lot of huff and puff, not to mention another off-season of heavy spending, there emerged a general concensus from the masses predicting a bright season for Liverpool (I have to say I was always a little sceptical given their track record under Rafa). The reverse has occurred, Liverpool have steadily slid from EPL contention. Not what is required given that it is only the end of January.

How long can he last?

He’s been pretty dimissive of his employers (owners). The latest reference being to question whether they have a TV
Not too smart really in my book if he has long-term aspirations at the club.

It highlights again just how critical the relationship between the manager and the board (owners) is. Once that goes it’s almost certainly the start of a break-up. Anyone still want big-business foreign owners? Noticeable how that mantra has been unheard of recently.

The reality is that Rafa couldn’t compete with Wenger/Fergie/Mourinho(now Grant). There has been too much managerial firepower in the EPL. Like it or not, those managers have been more capable of assembling and managing winning sides.

Rafa, give him his dues, bought himself a lot of time by winning the CL…..but the year by year EPL results are the true test and prove that the CL is not a measure of underlying greatness, no matter how much glory is attached.
nipuna Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 12:18 am
Gibbs and Randall going on loan is good. If they do well, they will come back, otherwise they will move to another club. At least, they will get some first team experience. That’s how it’s always been with Wenger.

Interesting to see Ramos buy 4 defenders in the transfer window. Funnily three of them – Gunter, Gilberto and Hutton – are full backs. They can show that they have really improved by not losing on Sunday.
Andez Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 1:43 am
Kiwi, i think he’s a goner. when u piss your boss off, you don’t stand a chance.

personally I think he’s an excellent manager, up there with the best. u don’t win a La Liga with a relatively smaller club (compared to Real and Barca), a smaller budget, then an UEFA Cup title with Valencia, and a Champions League with Liverpool without being a top class manager.

in fact, watching the English football for two decades, there were only TWO managers who had won a Champions League/European Cup title with an English club – Fergie and him. And the fact that he did it with a 5th place Liverpool side was even more remarkable.

but the owners of Liverpool, and some of their fans have not been too realistic IMO. I can understand their frustration of failed to win the EPL title back for nearly two decades now. but winning the league and a cup is entirely a different matter. with any cup competition luck always plays a factor, regardless people want to face the fact or not. Winning the league though, if you are not good enough, you are not good enough.

it takes time to build a league winning team. But as we would testify it ourselves here – TIME is a luxury in modern day football. Most people want to build a Rome in one day.
ryecatcher773 Says:
February 1st, 2008 at 5:08 am
Thanks a bunch Arthur and Thompson. I will defo have a look.

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