Two more goals from Emmanuel Adebayor, and an absolutely sick goal from Eduardo helped the Gunners earn a 3-1 victory over Manchester City earlier today.
Despite City’s impressive home form this season, it never seemed as though they’d threaten the Arsenal goal. In fact, their only sniff of goal came from a rare Gael Clichy mistake which lead to a Gelson Fernandes goal which cut the Gunners lead to 2-1 late in the first half.
The second half was simply a matter of waiting for Arsenal to score. Finally, with a few minutes left, Adebayor scored his second, wrapping up the points for Arsenal. The win means the Gunners are back at the top of the table for at least a few hours, or perhaps longer depending on how things turn out at White Hart Lane (I feel a bit sick just typing that…) today.
So, a bit of a rest now as the next match isn’t until Monday the 11th against Blackburn. Kickoff is 3 PM ET, and the match is being shown live here in the US on Setanta USA.
February 2nd, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Awesome! Don’t ask me why but when I saw 7:45am ET I figured I would get up at 8:30am to watch it Central time at 8:45am. Dumbass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Glad to hear we won and had a couple of goals to spare. all the extra goals can only help.
Cheers!
February 2nd, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Sagna was man of the match for me today. No disrespect to Adebayor, who was fantastic. But Sagna bombed down the flank so many times today and he beautifully set up the first goal. He also owned Petrov. They even tried to have him switch sides late in the second half just to get away from him. Bac is the buy of the season.
February 2nd, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Spurs really bottled it again. right on the final kick of the ball. dont that just piss u off.
February 2nd, 2008 at 12:58 pm
well, at least now we are back to 2 points lead, so much so that “we are going to drop to 3rd place talks” a few weeks ago.
February 2nd, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Fucking Spurs, gives up a last minute goal. Well on the good side, Man U and Chelsea drops points
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Ferguson was having a long chat with Poyet after the final whistle. What on earth could they be talking about? Well I had expected Spurs to lose so atleast they managed to take 2 points away from Utd but was it so hard for them to put a man on the near post?
Overall, a very good day. Arsenal extend the lead at the top and Ade closes in on Ronaldo for the goal-scoring charts. I so want him to be top-scorer. It would once again show how Wenger managed to find a striker to help fill the gap left by a giant such as Henry, who in turn had filled the massive boots of Wright.
I am still smiling over Eduardo’s goal. As soon as he chested the ball, I knew he was going to score. But how he did was so damn coooool. Class.
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:04 pm
F*cking United, how lucky can you be? I didn’t see any of our game, b/c I wasn’t going to get only 4 hours of sleep on a weekend, but I watched the last half hour of Spurs and ManUre… Spurs really now how to f*ck it up.
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Eduardo never seems surprised after scoring. Almost as if he meant everything. Maybe he does.
Spurs bottled again. On the last kick. But they have improved. Do they still have to play Chelsea?
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Also hopefully Benjani’s papers get sorted out and he is allowed to be a registered City player for the Manchester derby. But that might not happen. Bizarre case though.
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:06 pm
exactly Sachin, not the first time they done that - no man guarding the near post. Basic stuff.
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:07 pm
I thought Lehmann did quite well. Came out to clear the ball a few times. One of them was very crucial. Of course, can’t displace Almunia on one performance, but he was solid.
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Well maybe Eduardo might admit in an interview that he used to practice shots like that on the beach in Rio when he was a kid
Or maybe he played some foot volleyball? Delightful stuff.
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:12 pm
For a change, Lehmann even applauded his defense. Senderos played a back header wide of his goal and Lehmann stretched to put it out for a throw-in. But if Senderos had played that header directly to Lehmann, it might have caught him off guard. So I believe he applauded the intention. Or maybe Senderos got it wrong and Lehmann over-estimated the effort.
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:12 pm
In the end, it was Keane’s miss that costs Spurs.
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Sachin, competition for places makes such a difference. It not only improves a player’s performance, it also brings about an improvement in their behaviour.
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:17 pm
@13 I think Senderos purposely headed it wide, didn’t look like a mis-head to me. as u said, if he headed it staight to Jens that would spell trouble.
btw, anyone saw that ballboy incident? kinda funny really, he picked up the ball before it went out of line. nobody seemed to notice it though until the TV replay.
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:28 pm
More interestingly, did anyone see the Johnson offside incident in the Blackburn-Everton game? When the ball was passed to Johnson, there was a Blackburn defender clearly ahead of Johnson. Still he was given offside. Turns out that Brad Freidel had run out to clear the ball and Johnson was ahead of him and nearer to the goal. Hence offside.
The rule apparently says that there should be two players between the player and the goal. One is almost always the GK, but if the GK is not between the player and the goal, there need to be two other players.
Very interesting and certainly and piece of rule I did not know.
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:32 pm
The voodoo that Dudu do!
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Yeah Andez, that ballboy incident was funny
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:38 pm
I stuck around the pub after the Arsenal game to watch Spuds v ManUre. I hate to say this but Spurs deserved to win. Man U looked lost and frustrated. I guess sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good. Tottenham are going to be trouble for the rest of the season and next year because now they believe they can hang with big teams. Next years derby should be very interesting.
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:40 pm
“well, at least now we are back to 2 points lead, so much so that “we are going to drop to 3rd place talks” a few weeks ago.”
Andez, I predicted we would be third at the end of the season, not on February 2nd. Anyway, the way City are playing at the moment your prediction that they would make Europe is looking a bit stupid as well.
As for today, great result and decent performance. City have been playing almost relegation standard for the last two months but with that crap pitch, our fixture congestion, and the fact that City are like the english PSV Eindhoven- albeit a bit shitter- it has been a great day. Hopefully we can hold on to that 2 point lead until the Chelsea game. That’s when the fixtures start getting really tricky.
Up the Arse.
February 2nd, 2008 at 1:51 pm
“Andez, I predicted we would be third at the end of the season, not on February 2nd.”
Glad to see u have so much faith on OUR team.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Andez, you would have faith in Arsenal to win the title if we had a team full of quadriplegics. I think we will finish third, but I actually want us to win the league. Are you unable to distinguish between think and want?
Anyway, you say before the game City are different this year, a different animal. Yet you had no clue what the score was against Liverpool a month ago, or how they have played at home for the last three months. It helps to qualify an opinion with some substance i.e. Actually watching a game or two now and then.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:27 pm
I appreciated the way that Man City came out to play. It was a real match and although it didn’t pay off with a win, they had a positive attitude even when 2 goals down. I respect teams that come on the pitch to play football, not hide 11 men behind the ball against the Arsenal. Kudos’ to Man City!
It seems to me the $purs are living up to their well earned disrespect from us Gunners. They’ve been a real pain in our butt this year in terms of frustrating our Carling Cup aspirations and not finishing off ManUre today. Funny thing is that I really dislike Chel$ki more but Spuds are starting to become a pain in my Gunner Arse - who knows maybe they’ll work their way into Chel$ski’s position as the season progresses. Just now I only see them as a mid to lower table team of bottlers.
I’m not much for predictions because they make me nervous but damn I felt if Arsenal was in first place after Dec. they could go all the way and here it is Feb and well…… League Cup!
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:28 pm
I wouldn’t say Man City have been of a relegation standard over the last 2 months either, as they have only lost 2 of their last 11 Premiership games. Tottenham have lost 4 of their last 11 Premiership games, are they twice as bad as Man City? No.
Any team that has gone 14 games unbeaten at home is going to be very difficult to beat - end of. Perhaps you should give Arsenal a little more credit instead of putting the entire victory down to Man City being rubbish - but as usual you seem to pick the slightest faults out of every performance like some sort of manic depressive.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Just to pile in, I love this website because it’s a place I can exchange views with others like me who love Arsenal and wish it well. I really hate when it becomes the “I am right, everybody else is wrong, and if they dare criticize me, they are rubbish” website.
February 2nd, 2008 at 2:58 pm
I did give Arsenal credit. Crap pitch? Fixture congestion? City resemble Eindhoven? Can you read? City have been playing like complete shite for months, any fan who has WATCHED them will tell you that. Dunne and Richards have been holding them together in every game I’ve seen of them.
It was a great result, what more do you want to be said? Your absolute obsession with appearing level-headed, especially in light of your rants a few years ago, is so transparent.
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Could this be the start of something verrrry special ?
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:37 pm
It’s nothing to do with being level-headed, it’s giving praise where it’s due. And what’s wrong with being level-headed anyway? Surely anything’s better than your massive ego, which has been running out of control on this website for the past 6 months - where EVERYTHING you say has to be right and if anyone challenges it you won’t let go until the thread descends into page upon page of abuse.
The only thing your posts demonstrate is that you’re a very insecure and unselfsatisfied individual with an unhappy home life.
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Anyone else take a crap when you heard Lehmann was in goal? I got nervous that he’d find a way to botch it for the boys.
Anyway, game. I agree Sagna had Petrov locked down all afternoon. Loved that he took a yellow for his unsportsman like conduct.
As for ManUre - I new Spurs couldn’t hold out. When it was at the 88 min mark I had thought they might pull it off but damn if Tevez who was shite all day didn’t pull it out. And how bloody luck are Chelsea - to me that whole second half was Portsmouth’s to take.
Ah well back at the top of table and also closing the GD difference with ManUre.
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Great game.
My Man of the Match (After Ade) goes to SENDEROS
I just want to put out there how much better he’s looked the last month. Mostly since filling in for Toure. He still bundles around like a gorilla on ice skates, and he’s still slower than most other players, but his positioning and recovery and especially his headers and clearances have improved dramatically. He’s showing more confidence and grit and determination and belief. It was really fun watching him run through the defense alongside Eduardo late in the 2nd half. He reminds me a lot of Flamini. Lacking in obvious skill and grace, but with so much underneath waiting to explode. Wenger is a genius!
Note: I’ve also been supporting Flamini as a true Gunner must-keep for going on two years (since the run of games at left back in 06 leading up to the CL final), and look what he’s truned into!
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Great game.
My Man of the Match (After Ade) goes to SENDEROS
I just want to put out there how much better he’s looked the last month. Mostly since filling in for Toure. He still bundles around like a gorilla on ice skates, and he’s still slower than most other players, but his positioning and recovery and especially his headers and clearances have improved dramatically. He’s showing more confidence and grit and determination and belief. It was really fun watching him run through the defense alongside Eduardo late in the 2nd half. He reminds me a lot of Flamini. Lacking in obvious skill and grace, but with so much underneath waiting to explode. Wenger is a genius!
Note: I’ve also been supporting Flamini as a true Gunner must-keep for going on two years (since the run of games at left back in 06 leading up to the CL final), and look what he’s turned into!
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Danny, you should be a pyschogist. Your so perceptive. Insecure, unhappy personal life manifesting itself in negative postings? Geez, your so original!
Instead of getting involved your amateurish pseudo-pycho babble, I will say you’ve been following a script all season and trying to set an agenda on this site. An Arsenal win is nearly always followed by over the top praise for players, and the teams performance. This constant ‘what more can you ask for’? tone which is as staged as hell. The fact you called today’s performance superb confirms that.
You act like like the Arsenal America editor. Agenda Setting all the time and low betide anyone who contradicts it.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:25 pm
I am glad we are being what we really are, judging from our recent games. Our boys should please see themselves as playing against Man U in all their remaining league matches. Goals may eventually matter, from the way things are going. We should erase the goal difference advantage Man U have against us now. This is very important.
Rebo.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:26 pm
DannyT is not over the top. He’s called them as he’s seen them for all the years I’ve observed this site. He in fact thought this was a year too soon for the Gunners in terms of grabbing the league title. I’ve disagreed with him over the years yet somehow we’ve never digressed to the level of rancor that is now seen on the site.
I will note that there is a common participant in all the rancorous exchanges on this site as of late. Mazza, you’re entitled to your opinions. We’re entitled to our opinions whether they are critical of yours and whether they involve looking at Arsenal performances through the eyes of a fan and not through those of an objective evaluator of world football. We’re also all entitled to civility. Yet somehow again and again, the unpleasantness and darkness descends on this site when one of us dares to raise our voice against you. Next time someone disagrees with you, why don’t you state your case without calling them on their wrong predictions in the past, their lack of knowledge regarding the beautiful game and/or their personalities. I think you’ll find that others will respond to that with equal grace.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:41 pm
I just see pure hypocrisy on this site. It’a quite pathetic really. Andez unnecessarily brings up my prediction about our league position after the game today. Danny has an issue with post 21 and creates a big thing. Now read post 21 again. Who is the inflammatory, provocative prat this time? Alot of the people who claim to find these juvenile discussions distasteful actually start most of it themselves. As I said before, pure hypocrisy and makes a mockery of their feigned aloofness in regards to previous spats.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Fair enough, I looked at post 21. I agree that the 4 League fixtures beginning with the Chelsea game and ending with the ManU game with home against Liverpool and away against Bolton will be a very severe test for Arsenal. I also think that mid-February stretch will also be challenging because Arsenal will be playing AC Milan and ManU within 4 days. Even though the league games around those two fixtures will not be as demanding, the Champions League game against Milan and the FA Cup match away at Manchester will test and stress the players and their fitness so that there may be an impact on results of league games around those fixtures that otherwise might be not so difficult.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Gentlemen, please give it a rest.
I have come to this site to build my knowledge of the sport and overall I have done that. There have; however, been times when I have asked what I felt was a reasonable question only to see it buried in the name calling table tennis that we are seeing here. Were the questions ever addressed? No. I don’t suppose I am owed an answer, but it would be nice to help another man who supports your team.
If you have not been one of these individuals, I apologize for wasting your time.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:59 pm
VillageGunner. Until someone actually questions me with respect, I will not answer with respect. Respect is a two way thing. Again, read the posts. They get the response they’re looking for. I see through their supposedly benign veneer and then they’re true intentions come out.
Fair play to you though for being cordial broaching your concern. I can see you are being genuine. Unlike some others.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Oops, just saw your post VillageGunner.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:04 pm
We have read it. Paragraph 2 focuses on on how “stupid” Andez is. Paragraph 3 speaks 4 words about Arsenal’s excellent performance, and most of the rest of it goes on to say how dreadful Man City are, inferring that the result was a walkover. How about commenting on the positive aspects of Arsenal’s performance, which prevented the opposition from performing as they would have liked to no matter what? You always take credit away from the team, your praise is always faint. There is always an ulterior motive with you, usually in an attempt link your previous posts together for fear of eliciting a chink in your ego.
Anyone, enough already.
@gunner dc, I wouldn’t say Senderos was ever close to man of the match - his distribution is still a bit wretched, but he is showing signs of doing what should be expected of a player who has in truth been given a lot of leeway by Wenger.
Of course, Senderos has been bashed something rotten on this website, and probably by all Arsenal fans at some point or other - and with good reason, but that could all change, why not? I think it will take more than 3 or 4 solid performances in a row to really convince me he is a worthy first choice 3rd centre back, but I agree he does seem to be playing with a certain renewed confidence. Maybe he’s thinking, it’s now or never - if I don’t take my chance that’s the end of my career at Arsenal.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Also, maybe Senderos looks at Flamini and sees what could happen if you just give it your all, keep your head down, try to improve, and talk straight to Wenger.
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:37 pm
DannyT and other Senderos bashers, I am still waiting for your nominee as best third-choice centre-back outside the top four.
Just did a quick check of results. At this stage of the season there are a lot of fixtures that both ourselves and Utd. have played the same team e.g. away to Spurs and away to Man City. I did a very quick comparison and comparing only those fixtures which we both have fulfilled we have 45 points to their 41 points.
Today was a bad day for Chelsea. At four points behind, if they beat Arsenal and Utd. at home and those two drew in Old Trafford, Chelsea only had to match the others results to win the league. We have four or five games before we play Chelsea, let’s win them all!!
February 2nd, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Off topic comment, but Sir Alex Rednose is being his usual arrogant, foolish self.
On Mark Clattenberg’s refereeing in Spuds v Manure:
“For Manchester United it’s not right,” said Ferguson. “There is something wrong when Manchester United get seven bookings.”
Those fouls were 100% deserved and he should count himself fortunate that he finished the match with 11 players. More fouls could easily have been given — a couple of Hargreaves beauties come to mind.
He concludes that the one point could be “massive.” I agree, but probably not in the way he means.
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:01 pm
It was a brilliant Arsenal morning. Back on top, and learning what it takes to stick there…..
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:57 pm
there are very few things more pleasing than watching Sir RedNose bleeting and whinning after a game.
It’s funny how he’s grown more and more quiet as the season’s progressed though. Prior to, and immediately after, the Emirates game he was ranting all around about how great his team is and all that… now he generally only rants when his team underperforms…
It’s got to be a combination of fear (for losing the EPL) and frustration no longer arrogance that now motivates his rantings.
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:42 pm
Adebayor was at it again. The Arsenal are looking strong, but there’s a long way to go. With Adebayor in this kind of form, the goals are there to keep the team moving forward, and some of the other top players are going to be coming back to their best form: Cesc, Hleb, Rosicky, Van Persie. Arsenal firing on all cylinders are a good bet to win the league, but one bad patch, and Manchester United or Chelsea could take a lead and keep it. I really hope that doesn’t happen.
Of today’s game, though: more of the same, lads; more of the same.
http://www.wickeddeflection.com
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Didnt see the game since im working a 24 hour shift, but was glad to hear that Sendy is settling and improving. I dont know why, but he is always a player i have rooted for, even so far as being unhappy when Gallas first joined. Maybe he’s just a loveable frustrating goon at times. I just really want to see him come good and fulfil the promise he showed a few years back. The other player that i have always rooted for irrationally was Flamini and Im happy to see him stepping up his form this year. He always seemed to have a fire in him, even though his play didnt seem to benefit from it. Hope he stays and keeps that fire burning in the midfield.
February 2nd, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Well got to agree with GunnerDC @31/32 Senderos would have been my man of the match except for Ade, although I didn’t note how well Sagna played. But it is true Petrov was inconspicuous so either Sagna did in fact have him in his pocket, Petrov had a bad game or a bit of both.
Although haven’t wasted my time Senderos bashing I got to admit I have never held him in high regard. He was excellent today. I did not notice anything wrong with his distribution today. IrishGunner well said, we (Arsenal) for one do not have a better 3rd choice CBand I doubt if there is another to perform as well as he has been doing within our budget.
Danny I think you were a little hard on Mazza. Mazza for as long as I have known has always been a bit of a cynic (no disrespect intended), post 21 was a typical Mazza post and sure he can go on a bit like with the never ending duel with Fred but it isn’t anything to get heated up about. all this talk about ulterior motives and “following scripts all season” is a bit far fetched guys.
Live and let live. Let Mazza be Mazza. This is beginning to sound like another Stag hunt. Part 1 was “Everybody Hates Chris” starring Stagliola (sorry if I spelt your name wrong Chris), part 2 looks like “Everybody Hates Mazza,” it appears DannyT is the producer/director of both dramas. I hope I ain’t been too critical Danny but I am just telling it how I see it. IMO Mazza is correct, there does appear to be some hypocrisy on your part.
I think blogs are for people to be free to say what they want within reason. Personalities will clash, as they give their strong opinions, they are or should feel free to do so. Unfortunately for some this site is not only going to be a place where all you have is lovely people sharing knowledge about their team. But I like it this way. We have a diverse community of people from all over the world, with different personalities. Whether it is the sound commentaries and analysis from characters like Andez, Kiwi, JoshuaD. Or the more passionate exchanges from the likes of DannyT, Mazza, Fred or Stag…”it’s all good” (interesting). Let’ s try not to make each other feel ashamed of our opinions or hound each other off the site. I know this sounds kinda hippy! but let’s show some love as people united in our love for Arsenal.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:35 pm
i think senderos is benefiting mainly from playing beside gallas. gallas has a calm air or attitude which radiates to senderos. toure on the other hand is of the more panicky attitude demeanour.
anyway, the main reason wenger will keep faith with him as long as possible is because: he doesnt complain about bench or reserve time. and to be fair to him unlike walcott he never looked technically incompetent just a serious case of “head” issues.
as somebody else said, there is NOBODY else in the PL who is significantly better than Senderos or Song who will come in and sit on the bench behind Toure and Gallas. even if that person exists he will have to acclamatize to the arsenal-system, he will want a HUGE wage and he will probably be in his 30s!
so let settle down to a senderos/song beatdown for 3rd place CD.
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:40 pm
in retrospect its a great thing we lost our unbeaten record early enough. imagine the extra pressure on our players at this stage, and imagine the extra motivation of our opponents! lol.
i hope the ivory coast and cameroon get knocked out this weekend! i miss toure and song.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:29 pm
“Anyway, you say before the game City are different this year, a different animal. Yet you had no clue what the score was against Liverpool a month ago, or how they have played at home for the last three months. It helps to qualify an opinion with some substance i.e. Actually watching a game or two now and then.”
For ur information Mazza, i got a life to live, i don’t have time to watch all the matches, or to remember all the score.
BTW, did u watch ALL the City games before you claimed they were going to park the bus playing against us? An did you watch ALL the Man U and Chelsea matches before your prediction that they are going to finish above us?
If not, based on ur theory, shouldn’t you yourselves need to add some substances into your opinion as well?
Hell, i am not awared that we all need to be Martin Tyler before making any comment here.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 pm
I agree with you completely Fred about Sendy benefitting from playing Billy Baracus Gallas. I think it one of wengers masterstrokes. He brought in a seasoned defender to solidify the back and provide some leadership to some young defenders and it looks like it is working.
Off the subject, just wanted to say hello to JoshuaD. Didnt get the chance to repond to your post in previous topic. Yeah its been a while man. still been reading just havent had much time to write. Busy year with a new city, new job, and new baby. Still find time to make it out to the Globe once in a while and catch a game. Otherwise just me at home with my 4 month old dressed in a baby arsenal kit watching the game. Arsenal one on the day she was born (watched the game on my laptop while my wife was in labor, im horrible) and she’s been my good luck charm ever since. Anyways thanks for the welcome back
Cheers
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:41 pm
To DannyT in #41 (& Everyone else who’s commented)
I agree that Senderos lacks distribution skills. It’s simply his presence and persistence that are making such a difference. He’s going for (and winning!) tackles, clearances, and, mostly, headers, that this time last year he would’ve:
a) straight up missed
b) committed a foul on
or
c) knocked into an oncoming attacker
I think his passing and the distance he’s getting on his headers still needs to improve.
I also fully agree with Fred in #50 about Gallas’ influence vs. Toure’s. It’s obvious whenever Toure is playing with the Young Guns that he’s still too excitable to be in charge back there. Did you see Gallas order Senderos over to Eduardo with the late game corner kick instructions? Senderos sprinted like a school boy he was so excited!
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:39 am
“Until someone actually questions me with respect, I will not answer with respect. Respect is a two way thing. ”
Mazza, that I agree with it 100%. And that’s where the problem is. Did you GIVE enough respect to others’ opinion?
You mentioned I “unnecessary” brought up your prediction a while ago. Yes I did. But WHY? Because you GAVE (after a draw we suffered, and you couldn’t wait to make a meal out of the result), so now here, you are going to TAKE it back.
It’s like why I respect Roy Keane more than Robbie Savage. Because while Keane threw in the tackle, when ppl tackled him back, he didn’t cry to the ref. Unlike Savage, he threw in so many dirty tackles, yet when being tackled himself, he rolling around on the ground and sulk like a baby.
You have had you fun after one poor result of us of late, now it’s your turn to take some sticks back when we are doing well. Tell me, am I being UNFAIR to you?
In general, I believe I have, or at least try to respect the majority of people’s view here. And I always believe, as I have told Stag before - what you give is what you get. If a person has a geniue, prespective opinion, this guy will never get the over the top response. And if one find himself keeps getting over the top response, shouldn’t he has to take a look of himself before pointing fingers on others?
February 3rd, 2008 at 8:06 am
In other words, if you keep talking shit eventually it gets flung back at you.
Hey, arthur3sheds, you really are a hippy aren’t you?
February 3rd, 2008 at 8:41 am
Watching our game and Spuds-ManUre back to back at Slainte in Baltimore was a hoot. There was a large, happy Arsenal contingent, as usual. Everyone stayed around and rooted for Spuds, often ironically. ManUre fans were massively outnumbered by Spuds ‘fans’, often wearing Arsenal jerseys. A lot of the neo-Spuds supporters went silent at the end when ManUre levelled, but I thought it was a perfect moment.
No good can ever come from supporting Spurs, even from the standpoint of my enemy’s enemy is my friend. Even under Ramos, they flatter to deceive.
February 3rd, 2008 at 8:56 am
Yeah, Spurs did us a favour AND fucked up . The idiots.
February 3rd, 2008 at 10:10 am
“No good can ever come from supporting Spurs” - classic
February 3rd, 2008 at 10:53 am
LOL! @ DannyT 56. You will never know! Andez @55 may have a point Mazza has been a bit hypocritical too.
February 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 am
Well Andez, I don’t remember saying after the Birmingham game, “where is all the talk of Arsenal winning the title now?”. I was going on about squad depth and being disappointed with the draw because I wanted us to finish second. The big Rosicky/Diaby debate insued. You directly brought up my prediction in this thread, which I suppose you will do every other time we win this season.
I said my piece on the prediction thread a few weeks ago. People need to move on. Just because I predicted Arsenal would finish third it doesn’t mean I have to go apeshit over a 3-1 victory at Man City and saying it was a superb performance when I don’t think it was. It was a great result with a few very good performances such as Adebayor and Sagna.
The transfer window is closed, the Arsenal players are working their socks off, it’s time just to enjoy the season and enjoy the ride. After the season we can see where we went wrong and who was right etc.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:15 pm
“After the season we can see where we went wrong and who was right etc.”
If we finish 3rd comes the end of the season, as you “RIGHTLY PREDICTED”…. bet you are the only one here would still care about who’s RIGHT.
The rest of us, I believe, would be just absoutely gutted that we lose the title race.
February 3rd, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Well if you carry on making such a big deal of predictions every week I probably will. Because If Arsenal do win the title you will be going on about your prediction for the whole summer, and how Senderos proved everyone wrong etc
Still, if you do harp on about how you were right it will mean Arsenal will have had a good season. If that happens, I won’t care either way.
February 3rd, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Spot on Andez, I actually believe Mazza WANTS Arsenal to fuck up the title just so he can say he was right.
Whereas as I would love to see Senderos score a hatrick on the last day and run around the Emirates with the trophy shouting “stick that up your arse Danny T”.
This is the difference between Mazza (and formerly Stag) and everyone else on this site. We care about Arsenal primarily - they only care about their precious “predictions” and preserving their ego in tact.
February 3rd, 2008 at 3:21 pm
“Spot on Andez, I actually believe Mazza WANTS Arsenal to fuck up the title just so he can say he was right.”
Well, it’s been fairly obvious you’ve thought that all along.
Anyway, as Arthursheds alluded to in his post, if you really think that then your even more stupid than I thought.
Almost as pathetic as accusing Stag of not being a real fan when he pays a fortune to fly over from Boston to watch games.
February 3rd, 2008 at 3:46 pm
@43 I am a bit confused as to why you care who the best 3rd choice center back outside the top 4 is? It seems completely irrelevant. Arsenal are a team that are challenging for a Premiership title, winning domestic cups and becoming a consistent power house in Europe. Those of us so called “Senderos bashers” don’t believe that he is capable of helping us win any of the above mentioned titles. Just like others don’t see Eboue, Rosicky or Diaby contributing to titles. It’s just an opinion. I would love to see him turn in to a dominating player but I just don’t see it ever happening. In the meantime we have one of, if not, the best center backs in the world in William Gallas. He is 30 years old and has had a few injury issues over the past few years. We also have an incredibly talented center back in Kolo Toure. Unfortunately, he has to leave us for 6+ weeks every two years. I think it would advantageous to bring in a world class center back because I don’t think Djourou or Senderos will ever be anywhere close to that good. But whether or not Senderos is better than Zat Knight is completely useless to consider.
February 3rd, 2008 at 4:18 pm
@66, you are missing the point completely.
Gallas is captain, plays when fit. Toure is an athlete, never gets injured. Who is going to come in and want to play third choice with no chance of keeping those two out of the team? Nobody will take that chance.
So keep dreaming of your world class centre back. Otherwise name who you want.
February 3rd, 2008 at 4:38 pm
exactly….good luck finding a “world class” centerback to sit on the bench behind gallas and toure.
we all saw how patient diarra was …and CMs get more games than CBs.
the point is: there are defenders of senderos’ age better than him. but there is none who is significantly better who would agree to sit on the bench.
February 3rd, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Erm, look at Chelsea - Terry, Carvalho and Alex. Three world class centre-backs accomodated. Ben-Haim isn’t too shabby either - better than Senderos.
February 3rd, 2008 at 5:18 pm
@Fred # 68…. well…. if you want to splash around Barcelona level cash, you get Lillian Thuram to be your third choice center back. He’s clearly 3-4 years on the downslope, but still makes nice plays. On balance, I might choose a still rising Senderos, but it’s close.
God forbid something happens to Gallas… hate to even imagine that
February 3rd, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Fred, your point about age is a good one. You don’t find a truly world class 22-26 yo center back to bench warm, and Arsene just doesn’t buy 34 yo’s (Thuram’s age when he went to Barca).
February 3rd, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Ferguson doesn’t rotate Vidjic and Ferguson. He has never rotated his centre-halfs. Mourinho didn’t rotate Terry and Carvalho. Alex looked world-class in Holland, not in England and anyway Chelsea don’t play by the same rules as everyone else. Wenger doesn’t rotate his first-choice centre-backs. No world-class centre-half would move into such situations. Funnily enough, the two greatest rotators of English football - Ranieri and Benitez - have never won the Premiership. You don’t rotate the spine of the team. At the end of the season you will find that barring injury and international commitments, Almunia, Toure, Gallas, Fabregas, Flamini and Adebayor will have played the most games.
The best way to deal with a situation like that is to have some up-and-coming centre-halves lined up as long-term replacements or as short-term filler-ins. I don’t know how highly Wenger rates Senderos, Djourou, Song, Nordveidt and Gavin Hoyte but he has five players lined up, any of which can become Gallas’ long-term successor. In the meantime, if the oldest (Senderos) can’t play Gallas or Toure out of the team, he will do as back-up. And as Fred says, to spend the money, you would want to find someone significantly better than Senderos.
As for Thuram, an ageing superstar on big money who only played when someone was injured would definitely upset the dressing-room.
I am still to be convinced that we can attract anyone to the club as third-choice centre-half better than Senderos.
February 3rd, 2008 at 6:30 pm
@ 69: the difference is that chelsea can pay a shitload of money. and guess what a lot of players will happily sit for 70 or 80k per week! ask cudicini !!! so dont compare chelsea to us.
and how exactly is alex a worldclass defender? because he played well at PSV? and because he knocked us out of the CL? that makes him a “world class” defender?
i repeat - any worthy CB wont sit on the bench without leaving within 6 months like diarra. such a CB MIGHT only stay if he was offered a lorry load in wages OR if he was in his 30s…and we all know wenger will NEVER buy a 30 year old. not gonna happen.
February 3rd, 2008 at 6:36 pm
BrendanK @66 I have wondered and wondered since I first saw the guy (Senderos) play, why Arsene Wenger has kept faith with this “Blunder Bus”, “Goon” or anything else people want to call him. But he has shown over the last few games and one or two (infrequently) before that he can be more than competent, thus I am beginning to concede “Arsene knows”. Have you not been watching the games since Toure has been away and Senderos has played? Either you haven’t or your mind is so made up you have become blind to the quality of his performances.
Irish@67 has it right who can we buy to warm a bench on our budget, that you can call world class. DannyT@69 think you got to look at the amount Alex and Ben Haim are being paid each week to warm the bench I can guarantee you Arsene will not consider paying that kind of money for a 3rd choice player.
February 3rd, 2008 at 6:41 pm
as said somewhere above….who can actually put a NAME out there???
i have never been a fan of senderos and despite his recent form i am still wary….but one has to look at it from wenger’s view. put a name out there?? someone between ages 19 and 25…who will sit happily on the bench in a low rotational spot, someone who will earn less than 40k per week. and who wont command an exorbitant price. and most importantly someone who is at least significantly better than senderos.
senderos is probably earning like 15k per week, and he is extremely happy to be sitting on the bench at arsenal. his swiss NT place is not even under threat!
after a lot of brain wracking i really cant put down a credible name out there that makes any sense. so i fully understand wenger’s inertia.
February 3rd, 2008 at 6:59 pm
and finally i think at this time we all ought to have accepted that wenger is now going for the “youngsters-as-backup” route. this has been obvious for the last 2 years now.
no more putting parlour, kanu, wiltord or dixon on the bench. gilberto is the last of them i am sure. instead he has decided his reserves and youth setup is good enough and he is going to promote from there mainly or replace first teamers like for like.
so we will only buy a very good CB if gallas or toure is sold or leaves. otherwise its a fight till the end for the likes of sendy, djorou, song, gavin hoyte, connolly and harvard. the most patient OR the most talented OR the most hardworking OR quite simply the luckiest will break through and make a spot his.
the fact the fabregas is the second highest earner at 50k per week (only gallas out earns him)…should tell you a lot about the tight ship wenger is running. ofcourse this wage bill will steadily rise as we start to win trophies and other clubs start tempting them with offers.
February 3rd, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Fred, Connolly was sold in the January transfer window.
February 3rd, 2008 at 7:11 pm
guys its official, pato is on fire! he continues to deliver the goods, won the game for milan today….then got injured! hurray i guess.
February 3rd, 2008 at 7:32 pm
You know you are going to see something similar to the Senderos situation in the summer with the left wing position. Wenger will only sign the likes of Quaresma if he ships Rosicky out. It will be one big name - Quaresma or Rosicky - with Gibbs, Vela or some other kid as back-up youngsters and Eduardo or Diaby in an emergency.
February 3rd, 2008 at 7:39 pm
yup you are right. we will only buy quaresma or someone else if rosicky leaves. our backup no matter what will remain gibbs, vela, merida, etc.
the same is true for all our other first teamers.
February 3rd, 2008 at 8:17 pm
I’m ‘just lovin’ the way this season is unfolding.
The mass media have a penchant to wet themselves everytime ManU reach the submit (on goal diff), but the truth is we have led the league for most of the season and ManU haven’t been able to maintain 1st place let alone build any lead.
I’m not counting any chicks….but the fact is this Arsenal team is going toe to toe and responding to the pressure. That’s serious progress in this team. The level of consistency that they are showing from August to Feb is fantastic. Get back Toure & hopefully RvP and let’s see how they respond to the title run-in.
Ade’s goals are gold, Dudu scored another classic, the midfield is regaining their form albiet slowly, Senderos is building his confidence game by game. Sure there is upside development potential, but if we can’t enjoy this what can we enjoy?
February 3rd, 2008 at 8:33 pm
spot on kiwi… but Fred’s made a point to one of my earlier post (much similar to yours) that I think answers your question… he said something like - it’s an arsenal blog and people have got to say something about the team they love…
In a way you can look at the moaning and whinning as their own pervert way of enjoying the ride (really no disrespect Fred). I think that’s part of what makes the site interesting… when we win people moan… when we lose people moan… sometimes it’s comic, sometimes annoying, but everybody here is obsessed with Arsenal so i guess it’s all good.
That said I hope Mazza’s prediction is wrong and we win the title
February 3rd, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Anybody rate Paul Scharner of Wigan? I haven’t seen much of him to say that he is better than Senderos, but he does seem good in the air and also scores a few goals.
Fred, I believe that Rosicky is the second highest earner at the club. Actually, it could be Gilberto, but I think Rosicky earns more than Cesc. That’s why I get very frustrated at his lack of contribution (don’t want to start another Rosicky thread here).
I don’t think Merida will come back. If Wenger rated him, he would have been loaned to an English club. The fact that he has been sent to Spain suggests that he has been put in the shop window.
How come all these stories of Wenger signing Quaresma have showed up just after the transfer window closed?
February 4th, 2008 at 12:47 am
“Well if you carry on making such a big deal of predictions every week I probably will. Because If Arsenal do win the title you will be going on about your prediction for the whole summer, and how Senderos proved everyone wrong etc”
Stop flattering yourself dude. If we win the title comes the end of the season, I would be too thrill and excited, and too busy on celebrating. u really think i would still remember ur prediction?!
and since when i made a big deal out of the prediction EVERY week? Or did i talk about Sendeors that much? As i said before, I defended basically every Arsenal player. It’s the same with Adebayor, Flamini, Walcott, Denilson. I am geniuely glad that whenever they are doing well. personally i don’t have any particular favourite player with this current Arsenal side. my favourite player was Robert Pires, and he’s gone. Period.
February 4th, 2008 at 1:02 am
@83, another transfer rumor is Real and Juve link with Adebayor. It seems like whenever an Arsenal plays well, he’s inevitably linked to one of the Series A or La Liga giants. Do they want us to be there feeder club?
February 4th, 2008 at 1:19 am
Andez@85, that is not something new. Somehow Arsenal does not have the same holding as ManU in the transfer market. You rarely see any of the ManU players linked to other clubs. Ronaldo is the only exception. While almost every Arsenal player is linked to others. Sometime back there were Flamini to Juve stories. We just have to live with it.
February 4th, 2008 at 1:39 am
paul scharner is not better than senderos in any significant way. plus he is 5 years older and has “great” experience shipping in goals with wigan and austria LOL.
nobody can actually put a credible name out there.
February 4th, 2008 at 1:42 am
Yes. But I also feel that those Spanish/Italian sides do not aware of one thing - many Arsenal players shine at Arsenal, apart from their own ability, it’s because of our SYSTEM. They style of play we play.
Our unique, one touch quick passing play help to bring the best out of some particular players. And in a way, make them look a better player than they really are. In short, with Arsene’s Arsenal, the SUM is always bigger than the INDIVIDUAL.
take those players elsewhere, and let them playing under a different coach, and a different style of play, they may struggle a bit.
The fact that when Anelka, Petit, Overmars, Vieira, Henry, or even Ashley Cole (with Chelsea) moved to other clubs, most of them struggled to regain their top form with Arsenal. I m not sure whether it’s a sheer coincidence.
Adebayor, for instance, he’s tailor-made for Arsenal, and for the physical nature of EPL. His power, pace and strength, along with the fact AW made him the focus point of Arsenal’s attack. So in a sense, I think it’s our system which makes him a better player.
but if he moves to Real or Juve, would he be equally effective? I remember Stag said great player could play anywhere, with any team and still remain as a great player. But as Henry has shown, though he did not necessary turn out to be a bad player playing with Barca, he doesn’t necessary light up the world with Barca as he did with Arsenal.
but of course, i understand this is the nature of the game. Regardless of the fact many of our ex-players after moving to Real, Barca the likes didn’t exactly make a hugh impact as they expected (when they bought them), those clubs would still be coming back for our players.
i think among all the scouts in the world, Arsenal’s talent scouts must be among the one who really EARNED their wage. Being a Real Madrid / Barcelona scouts are easy - just to recommend whoever is the “hottest” in the market.
February 4th, 2008 at 2:02 am
Fred, one of the big reasons for Wigan to be shipping in loads of goals is Titus Bramble.
February 4th, 2008 at 3:28 am
Barcelona have a youth scouting system possibly better than ours Andez, although they have money to buy the best when they feel the need. If I remember righty they have unearthed Messi, Eto’o, Krkic , Giovani dos Santos (they call him the new Ronaldinho), and our very own Cesc and Fran amongst others. I am not sure where Xavi and Iniesta started their careers.
It is true from most of the players you have just mentioned it is true the sum is bigger than the indiviual. Vieira maybe the only exception from the reports I have seen he has been a big player for Inter Milan in particular. Cashley on a good day is as good as he ever was for Arsenal. When played against us this season he was superb the Ashley of old and when he plays against Man Ure, he has consistently kept Ronaldo quiet. However I think he has lost his passion for game somewhat, thus his lack of commitment in other games.
I am a great fan of Pires too, he is probably going to be the hardest player to replace effectively. Who can score the amount of goals he did from the wing? But if you notice neither Robert Pires or Overmars used to score as much goals from the wing at least before they came to Arsenal, Rosicky will also do the same but I will be surprised if he can get to Pires’s heights.
Nipuna, as prone to errors as Bramble is, he is also one of the big reasons Wigan is not shipping in more goals, watch him closely and see how much attacks he foils during a game. However he is a accident waiting to happen, if he could get over that he would be a very good defender.
February 4th, 2008 at 3:45 am
yup arthur, i was just joking! i think Barca and Real have scouts spreading all over the world, in particular South America.
AW claimed that he tried to sign Messi and Ronaldo before but failed, and I believe him. but one player, according to an article i read from 442, he did miss after watching him played himself was Kaka. someone recommeded Kaka to AW and got him going down to watch Kaka play when he’s young, according to the article, AW wasn’t “impressed”. So the professor can get it wrong sometimes!
February 4th, 2008 at 3:52 am
As for Pires, the thing i like about him most was his intelligence. It’s great fun watching intelligent footballers as they always had the knack to choose the right options when making pass, and knows when to shoot, pass, dribble. And where to run off the ball.
but what impressed me most is how Pires changed his game after his injury at 2002. Before his injury, his game was using his pace driving down the left wing and cut the ball back to the middle. It made him becoming 2002’s top assisters in the league.
After his injury, he lost a bit of pace. An ever clever pro as he is, he started to cut into middle more often, and developed that knack on running into the “blind” spot of the penalty box. His assists dropped, yet on the other hand, his goals increased. That made him still an asset to the club.
If only Reyes, and today’s Walcott has this soft of football brain….
February 4th, 2008 at 3:54 am
barca didnt unearth eto’o, it was madrid that did. barca did unearth messi, santos, krkic, cesc, xavi, iniesta, oleguer and a couple of others though. but i think spanish clubs have a larger catchment area than say a london club like arsenal.
and i agree 100% with andez…the wenger system (which is a trademark lol) definitely makes our players seem much better. it is very comprehensive and fluent. it is also self-tweaking to make room for its current implementers.
that is why even though the sum of the Man U and Chelsea players might be higher than ours we can still win the league. and that is why we continue to create chances by the bucket load.
it is very good we have the system though…because wenger’s matchday tactical nous isnt all that.
February 4th, 2008 at 4:46 am
Bobby was a unique player. Last night, I was watching Arsenal’s 2-0 win over Juve and it struck me that in the current team, Cesc is probably the player who comes closest to matching Bobby’s runs into the penalty area. On both the goals, Cesc made nice runs into the D, the first was supplied by Henry and the second by Pires himself. Pity Cesc has to do most of the passing today.
February 4th, 2008 at 5:41 am
spot on. both pires and Cesc likes to run into the box late, those type of runners are most difficult to mark. defenders’ attention tend to get drawn towards those strikers already in the box.
February 4th, 2008 at 6:49 am
Just noticed that Adebayor has yet to score for Arsenal in the CL!!
He was cup tied when we made it to the final and in the last two seasons, he hasn’t scored a single goal. The Milan game will be the perfect time to open his account. Nevertheless we need others to step up and share the goal scoring burden with him. The last time we won a league game without Ade scoring was Chelsea on Dec 16.
February 4th, 2008 at 7:35 am
By the way,……WELL DONE GIANTS !!!!!
WELL DONE The G Men !!!!!
C H A M P I O N S !!!!!!
C H A M P I O N S !!!!!!
C H A M P I O N S !!!!!!
February 4th, 2008 at 8:47 am
I guess #97 sums up what happens when everybody starts trying to act civil on this site
February 4th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Awesome game.
What Happens when RVP comes back? Does Edu take the bench? I would love to see the three of them up front, but that is not going to happen.
February 4th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Barca acts just like Madrid what they don’t scout they perniciously acquire with hook crook or their respective mouth pieces. It’s a rogues game. That said I support Barca in Spain as I have a special place for Rijkaard and TH14.
#97 phurrf - phuuurt - etc.
#98 I kinda like the in fighting I reminds me of being with my fellow biatches.
#99 when RVP comes back - he’ll probably be gone again - so no worries!
I love the guy (being Dutch and all) but for the few times a year we get to see him play I’m starting to wonder. Jeez how many games has he played for Arsenal over the last 2 years - not many.
February 4th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
#17 - nipuna…
commenting on the Johnson offsides call. I watched it on youtube…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Go4H7LMqY
you are right there needs to be 2 defenders between the goal when the ball is played, but watching the replays, there are clearly 2, and perhaps 3 blackburn defenders (excluding Friedel) between Johnson and the goal when the ball was played to him. He was clearly onside, unless you make the argument that he was intially offsides before the play started and made himself “active” during the play. Everton supporters would argue he was in a passive position (earlier in the play) and only became active when the ball was played to him.
In my opinion, they should just scrap the passive versus active in the offside rule because its very confusing and often attackers definitely gain advantage exploiting this rule (i remember joe cole using it to good effect when chelsea beat valencia in spain earlier this season).
February 4th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
anyone else thinks liverpool are a bunch of utter idiots to be spending 18.6 MILLION pounds on a defensive midfielder???
they complain about lack of funds…but is a DM position going to win you the league that you should be spending that sort of money for it. no matter how u look at it there is nothing mascherano can do that diarra cant. and diarra costs 5 million.
the funniest part is that u dont even need somebody of that quality in that position to win the league.
they could do FAR better by buying somebody similar to our own flamini….maybe a little more experienced, someone who compliments gerrard very well. am sure they can get someone cheap for around 2 to 3 million.
with the remaining 15 million and the 8 million from sissoko they could buy a top class striker and winger to complement torres, gerrard and babel. but no. they want to blast all the money on a DM.
you only need a DM against the likes of kaka and fabregas. liverpool are not winning the PL any time soon.
February 4th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Andez@88. Interesting comments about the trademark AW system, and how performance at Arsenal does not guarantee perfomance elsewhere. The classic example of this is the discrepancy between Henry’s production with us and with France — all the fluidity and naturalness seemed to leave his game with les bleus, and the world said ‘overrated’ or he ‘bottled it.’ Not really, but the players around him weren’t as tuned in as Pires and Bergkamp.
Our current system with lightning fullbacks and rampaging centerbacks, fluid offensive switching between Cesc and Flamini, Adebayor hustling….. it’s a very flexible system compared to say, Liverpool. Maybe it’s not complete Rinus Michels era total football, but the interchangeability, and passing awareness throughout the outfield….. it’s special and beautiful, and not easily replicated.
February 4th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
“performance at Arsenal does not guarantee perfomance elsewhere”
I think the converse is also true. “Non-performance elsewhere doesn’t mean that you won’t succeed at Arsenal”. Wenger has a history of taking players who didn’t do very well at their current clubs and turn them into top performers at Arsenal.
February 4th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
coach_ed, Johnson was not offside in this case. But I was not aware that you need two players (keeper or no keeper) between the striker and the goal. I thought it was one outfield player.
February 5th, 2008 at 3:56 am
Fred@102 18.6 million is a lot of money judging by the price of Flamini it is too expensive. But Flamini to the average person was a gamble that has come good. Mascherano is exceptional, really, I’ve watch him live on a few occasions, he is that good. It was when they put Mascherano on Kaka that Liverpool were able to keep him subdued in the Champions League final.
When Real Madrid let Makalele go they did not win anything again until last season, I and many others believe it was because of they underrated the importance of Makalele and let him go without finding an adequate replacement.
It is hard to justify 18.6 million on any player, especially when Arsene Wenger is able to build a squad as quality as ours on a relatively shoe string budget. However Liverpool are big spenders like ManUre and Chelsea. If they can spend jusftify spending £20 million on Torres (is Torres twice as good as Eduardo?) and what was it £12 million on Babel? then the Mascherano bill can also be justfied in their eyes.
We have not lost a game this season with with Flamini playing and our most disappointing draws have been with him unavailable. I believe that the addition of Petit and Vieira and defensive qualities they added (although technically you could say they were CM who just worked together well in sharing the DM responsibility) won us the double in 98. Real Madrid hadn’t won the title since parting company with Makalele, I think that will tell how important DMs are, they can be instrumental in winning titles just like a top quality striker.
February 5th, 2008 at 4:52 am
yeah, DMs are important in italy, spain and in the champions league because those competitions are far more “technical” and there are lot of roaming attacking midfielders……but a great DM is totally unnecessary in the premier league.
who is the DM going to mark out of the game? bentley?? or some AM from the likes of fulham and birmingham.
to win the league which is their number 1 priority u need to beat a lot of “uncreative” teams. a simple hardworker is sufficient.
ofcourse if u have the money u should spend (eg. chelsea, man u) but if you dont its stupid spending that sum on a DM when u can buy a new torres and a good creative winger.
as for the price of torres compared to mascherano, attacking players should be more expensive because it is far more difficult to create something than to “destroy” it.
February 5th, 2008 at 5:27 am
A good quality DM is actually not easy to find IMO. When Petit departed, it took us a while to get ourselves a proper replacement to fill the void he left behind. and it’s the same case following Paddy’s departure.
However, I do agree that it’s silly to pay over 10 mil for a DM, let alone 18.
because DM, like Defenders, are playing a more “destructive role” in the team, to stop the opponents from attacking. that does not requre a naturally gifted talent like a good attacking players.
all u need is to work hard, to have a solid technic/passing, and read the game well.
Zidane, Ronaldo, Henry the likes got the exceptional ability which is rare among footballers - FLAIR. That’s something u can’t teach.
so based on simple economic theory, it’s natural that they should be more expensive. ‘cos the supply is much lesser than demand.
As for DM, or what they called “water carrier”, as with what Wenger did with Petit, a good manager could easily have transformed a player from different position to play there. Or in Flamini’s case, just keep working on his game, and let him developed into a good DM. Surely it’s far more easily to teach a player how to position himself, how to close down people than teaching him a crossover dribble, or 40 yard pass.
Liverpool is not alone. Man Utd paid 36 mil in two seasons for Carrick and Owen H. Owen H is a solid enough player, but there is nothing he can do Flamini can’t.
Personally, I think Ferguson is one of the most wasteful spending managers in the EPL. Look carefully, his squad is basically made up by gold. Chelsea’s spending spree last few seasons had somehow taken away the attention from the fact that Man Utd itself is a hugh spending club as well. And Fergie been paying over the odds on too many occassions to get the men he wanted.
February 5th, 2008 at 5:50 am
Fergie has always been spending big. 28M for Ferdinand, 24M for Rooney, 16M (?) for RvN, 20M for Tevez, 17M for Carrick and 18M for Hargreaves. He usually spends on proven talent and mostly it turns out well. None of the players may justify their price tags but you can’t say that Ferdinand, Rooney, RvN, Tevez, etc. are not good players. Only recently has he started splashing big cash on youth - 35M for Nani and Anderson. Early signs are that he has got that right too. Anderson looks a very good player.
February 5th, 2008 at 6:04 am
Veron, Diego Folan, Alan Smith, Kliberson, and that Carmeron midfielder i forgot his name….. he got a long list of flop big money signings as well.
Early in his Man U career, he had spent a lot (by that time’s standard) on the likes of Neil Webb, Wallace, and many many more (I can’t remember all those names, but i am not making it up), and failed.
So his transfer record overally speaking aren’t really that impressive. of cos u can’t say he always get it wrong, otherwise he wouldn’t have won all those trophies. But when u had all those spending power, life is bounded to be a bit easier.
February 5th, 2008 at 6:20 am
Andez, only Veron was 20M+. Forlan and Alan Smith were 6M each, Kleberson was 7M, and Djemba Djemba was some 3-4M. It is money wasted, but not a BIG money signing from ManU’s perspective.
I don’t know about his signings pre-1998, but since I’ve been watching English football (since 1998), I noticed that when Fergie spends big, it is usually on proven talent which more often that not proves good for ManU.
February 5th, 2008 at 7:09 am
I agree. 7, 8 million to Man U basically is nothing.
February 5th, 2008 at 9:59 am
I agree with you Fred that 18 mil is too much money for Mascherano, even though he’s been absolutely fantastic this year. But your perspective on some football matters is beginning to worry me. How could you attempt to undermine the importance of a DM player in the BPL?
Last year Carrick was the personnel difference that helped United win the title but that also coincided with Makelele playing less. In the 2005/2006 seasons, Makelele was the difference in Chelsea overtaking Arsenal but even that coincided with us losing our DM to injury most of the season. In fact, the only significant difference in the Invincible season and the ‘05 season was we didn’t have Gilberto.
Even this season, one of the biggest differences has been Flamini. Sure, we’ve scored a lot of goals but we’ve looked pretty comfortable at the back and that’s down to Flamini disrupting plays before they happen.
I remember being pissed that Chelsea bought Makelele as I didn’t think he would have been available. I would have wanted him at Arsenal but thought we had the same chance at getting him as getting Raul. Chelsea paid 17 million for him so that’s kind of hard for Real Madrid to pass up on. But it was truly a mistake. In fact, after they realized it, Madrid offered to pay almost twice as much for Vieira. It took them way too long to sort that mess out.
The point is there’s something nice about a player that can play that position instinctively well. A team’s success requires the right balance or chemistry so you can’t say DM players aren’t important in England. I agree 100% with what Arthur said. Believe it or not, DM’s do more than just man-mark the opposition’s playmaker.
February 5th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Josh, I don’t believe Fred thinks Flamini and Carrick are DM’s like Mascherano. I think that too. Mascherano sits in front of the back four all the time and protect them, while Flamini and Carrick are more of a ‘box to box’ type of players, they go forward, take shots and make some assists, that’s not a pure DM to me.
February 5th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Liverpool’s defense often sits deeper and that means Mascherano sit’s deeper as well. I watched Mascherano in the Copa America this summer and he was very involved in the Argentine attack, as the tactics allowed that.
The Arsenal back line spend most of the game sitting high up the pitch with four very fast defenders. This means Flamini spends most of the time higher up the pitch in the opposition’s half. When we’re defending, Flamini drops and helps out in the defense, which gives a sort of illusion that he’s a box-to-box guy. In reality, he’s more of a box-to-centerline midfielder
Also, Fabregas (like Guardiola) likes to come deep to receive the ball.
With Man Utd, Hargreaves does the defensive bit better than Carrick, hence he plays more this season. Also, they tend to play with two DM’s in Hargreaves and Anderson who take turns getting forward but are both back when they lose possession (like France did with Vieira and