Forced to play a relatively weakened side, Arsene Wenger watched as his team was eliminated from a cup competition in a four goal loss to a hated rival for the second time this season. Today’s loss was perpetrated by a rampant Manchester United, who took advantage of a seemingly dis-interested Arsenal to cruise to a 4-0 5th Round FA Cup victory at Old Trafford earlier this afternoon. With the Champions League match against AC Milan taking place this Wednesday, Wenger decided to rest the human goal machine Emmanuel Adebayor as well as Mathieu Flamini. Returning to the side were Kolo Toure and Emmanuel Eboue, their first action for the Gunners since the African Cup of Nations.
Wayne “Shrek” Rooney opened the scoring for Man U after only sixteen minutes, and Darren Fletcher added the first of his two goals just four minutes later. Nani scored the third Man U goal six minutes before the break and that was pretty much that. Really, in all honesty, Arsenal never looked like they had any chance of getting something out of the match. Whatever minute chance they did have evaporated when Emmanuel Eboue left his foot in during a tackle on Patrice Evra which earned the Ivorian a straight red card and an automatic three match ban. Down to ten men for the bulk of the second half, you actually have to give the Gunners a bit of credit for not getting completely annihilated. The match did get a big chippy as Man U began to hot dog a bit, which got under the skin of guys like William Gallas in particular.
Despite post-match arguments to the contrary, one has to think that the team took their queues from the Manager. The FA Cup isn’t a priority for him this year, and so the team played more with an eye towards not getting hurt than actually competing. At least that’s what it looked like from my couch.
So, it’s AC Milan at home on Wednesday as we get back to Champions League action. The match is being broadcast live here in the States on ESPN2, with kickoff at 2:45 PM.
February 16th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
This really sucks, I gave the excuse to people when you we dropped out of the carling cup “Am I bothered”? But this is a big defeat and what was Eboue thinking?
February 16th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
“The groundsman had as bad a day as us. You will see us in a different shape when we come back and a on different pitch.
“The pitch is a disgrace. You have players worth £20-25million and you cannot play a pass without it bouncing.” ~ Arsene Wenger
Hmmm, Man Utd didn’t seem to have much trouble passing on it. They should have scored 8.
Yet again, Wenger speaks utter drivel. We all know why he does it but it only lays him bare to ridicule and criticism. He’s better off saving his words for the players he seems incapable of motivating.
The Spurs thrashing was bad enough, but to get humiliated again in such a short space of time indicates to me that there’s something wrong with Wenger’s pre-match team talks, or maybe he thinks it’s acceptable to keep getting annihalated, if not humiliated, by our closest rivals just because he doesn’t take an interest in a particular competition.
He really needs to get his act together for the AC Milan game, and make sure the players respond.
Lehmann (7) Thanks to him it wasn’t 8-0 and the biggest humiliation in Wenger’s life and one of the worst in Arsenal’s history.
Hoyte (3) Totally inept, why does he even stick around? If a player is happy to sit on the bench playing 5 games a season, does he have the right ambition?
Toure (4) ANC hangover, missed every header going - looked completely off the pace.
Gallas (4) Rooney made a fool of him and was unlucky not to get sent off, still - at least he cares.
Traore (3) Woeful, completely out of his depth. I don’t think he will be another Clichy,
Eboue (1) What did he do exactly, except karate kick Evra in the bollocks? Enough is enough, flog this idiot.
Fabregas (3) Just didn’t seem to care - strolling around while Man Utd midfielders ran past him unmarked.
Gilberto (3) To think we sold Diarra because of this prat. Has been, totally unprofessional since being dropped, clearly evident through his retarded performances. Wenger should not be playing a player with this mindset under ANY circumstances. Diarra pulled himself out of games because his head wasn’t right, at least he was professional.
Hleb (3) Total crap. Dribbled like a retard through the middle of Man Utd’s defence, didn’t bother tracking back anyone.
Eduardo (5) One of the few that tried, but to no effect.
Bedntner (4) Had no chance as a lone striker against Vidic and Ferdinand - the tactic was idiotic from the start, and even more idiotic that Wenger didn’t change it at 2-0. Still, Bendtner didn’t seem very interested after 2-0 anyway.
February 16th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
We lost the game all over the pitch. We clearly lost in defense, we lost the battle in midfield, and our strikers were virtually invisible. The only positive that could come out of this game for me is that Wenger finally loses patience with that prat Eboue, and he never plays another minute in an Arsenal kit. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again… he is a disgrace and does not posses the class that is expected of a Gunner.
February 16th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
What has happened to Traore. He was actually one youngster I had relatively high hopes for, but he has gone from being one to watch to being one to watch… with your head behind a pillow. He can’t even run with the ball in a straight line without miscontrolling it.
February 16th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
God knows, he is 18, but to be honest I still expect more from an 18 year old. Still, in his defence it can’t be easy being thrown into huge games like this, especially when his team mates don’t seem to even care. They’re supposed to be guiding him not dropping him in the shit.
As for Eboue, I said this about a year ago, it’s actually a bad reflection on Wenger now that he tolerates having this player at the club. He’s 25 in June, not a child. He is complete liability, only an idiot would play him in a massive game from now on. I want him out for good now, I never liked him from day one but now I am sick of him.
February 16th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
traore and hoyte’s main problem is their defensive shortcomings with regards to positioning and when to go in for a tackle.
they have this problem because they are trained under the wenger regime which is poor at teaching proper defensive technique.
hoyte is kinda hopeless given that he is already 23….but traore needs to go on loan for a year in a strong championship side where he can play week in, week out.
February 16th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
yup, it has been obvious with eboue for 2 years now. back then, the only rationale for keeping him was that he had raw pace at least. but now he is such a joke it isnt funny at all.
he has actually been “promoted” to right midfield and his performance for arsenal has retarded greatly….not that they were any great at RB. he was a nonentity even for ivory coast.
eboue and gilberto need to be taken to a forest and abandoned.
traore needs to go on a year-long loan.
hoyte can stay if he wants, but djorou should cover as rightback and hoyte must be content with playing as 3rd choice RB.
we need vela plus a right winger in the summer.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Wouldn’t it be nice if just for once Wenger bought some hard fucker like Lucas Neill, a no nonsense full back who would probably be happy to sit on the bench at Arsenal playing all the cup games and filling in for periods like ANC and who you just know wouldn’t let you down. Not some twat cheat like Eboue or weedy nobody like Hoyte. I mean, just one player like that at the back would be nice, and a midfielder like that too - maybe Mikel Arteta, he would fit in beautifully at Arsenal.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
“they have this problem because they are trained under the wenger regime which is poor at teaching proper defensive technique. ”
Come on man, how u know of AW’s defensive coaching setup? AW is a manager who would coach, but he also got lot of coaching stuffs, from youth team all the way to first team. don’t tell me none of the coaches had taught Traore how to position himself, or when to make a tackle. And how we r going to explain Ashley Cole and Gael Clichy?
i think the kid just short of confidence that’s all. As i said many times before, life is never easy as an “in and out” players, let alone the young in and out players.
Had Gilberto kept his starting place, and Flamini still been playing every now and then, and here and there, I bet he would be still the same Flamini last season.
What Traore been facing is no different than Theo or Denilson. Or indeed, Adebayor, Flamini the likes had faced last season. If u come in, didn’t play well, then back to the bench the next game, it’s difficult enough to get into rhythm, let alone developing a self-belief.
As for Hoyte though, i think it’s game over for him. The first half in particular, if anyone paid attention, as if Fergie had done his homework, and kept his men bombing down the left (or simply because they are stronger down the left, with Park on the other flank). Either way, they basically tore us apart attacking Hoyte’s position. And that wasn’t the first time neither. Time to time I noticed whenever Hoyte’s in our lineup (as full back), opposition tended to concentrate on attacking the flank he’s defending.
but the key thing is I do not see any upside from him at all. Traore, on the other hand, is actually pretty skillful a full back. And i can still see him developing into a very good full back somewhere down the road.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
I would have felt better if they had won 1-0. No not Arsenal but ManUre! A 4 - 0 drubbing at the hands of ManUre hurts all of Arsenals fans sense of pride in the team. It may have been Arsene’s intent to put no importance on this game, a decision I would have supported, but when you’re defeated by such a margin, it makes one shake their heads in disbelief if you’re a Gunner fan. I know that I can hardly believe it and I watched the game, most of the time in shock.
As for Eboue, it was ironical that the only time that we saw him in the game was with the foul on Evra (but by far not the worst foul I’ve ever seen). He got what he deserved in the red card but we shouldn’t blame him for loosing; I think we’re giving him too much stick. The whole squad lost the game and there was very few if any moments of brilliance during the match. In fact probably, one of the most lack luster performances I’ve ever seen an Arsenal team perform. Indeed, it seemed as though they were just saying, “let’s get this over with”. I’m glad it’s over to. I’m sure even Dennis Bergkamp was tempted to turn off the TV around the 60th minute, I know I was.
As for the match sure it was reassuring to see Rooney get a yellow but for what. On the whole, he still gets away with too much and then picks up a cheap yellow for dancing on the ball. Overall, I thought the whole match was poorly refereed with a slant on most of Riley’s, whoops I mean Whiley’s, decisions going in ManUre’s favour. Not an excuse for the team as they just played poorly but it is an observation. That said, there were several calls I think should have come Arsenal’s way but didn’t and he was easy on ManUre.
As for the Boss. I think you’re too harsh on him DannyT. Even if in the dressing room, he said, “okay lets loose but loose with grace.” You can’t make a silk purse from a sow’s ear, if it walks like a dog it’s probably a dog. He knows as do all of us that with this list of injuries and future games that we could never win the treble. On the world stage, the Champions League is seen by hundreds of millions. If we had of hand out a can of whoop ass on ManUre today what would it of said if we lost with humility on Wednesday, not to mention the monies in TV revenues for the club. He’s a manager and that’s what managers do, they manage these choices. With exception to the humiliating loss, I think he made the right decision.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
If that’s the case why play Fabregas, Hleb and Gallas etc.? If you don’t care about the game put out a full youth team - if they lose 15-0 so what? Game is out the way and no-one will get injured for AC Milan.
So, no I don’t buy it. Wenger wanted to win but naused the whole thing up from top to bottom. I wouldn’t keep going on about injuries, I don’t believe Adebayor, Clichy, Flamini, Sagna were injured or unavailable at all.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
btw, i agree with one point DannyT brought up, and not many have noticed - Gilberto’s “professionalism”.
in fact, a while ago i thought of writing a post about that. I think he’s so-called “professionalism” has been OVERRATED, big time.
He talks like a model pro. But he sure hell didn’t play like one.
On that aspect, AW was right saying Lehmann was a “super professional”. Because he really is. You know the man is still upset, and has every reason to. But whenever he’s called upon, does him look like uninterested?
Gilberto, on the other hand, appeared to me his heart and mind were already gone the moment he was dropped. and his body language suggested so too. i remember watching the first Man U game at Emirates. After Gallas scored the late equalizer, the bench went crazy, and camera swang to the bench, Gilberto didn’t even seem to bother.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Thing is though Andez, there was a noticeble difference in Flamini in that Fulham game at the very start of the season. So much in fact that from my position in the upper tier I thought he was Fabregas. He carried Fab that day. So in Flamini’s case it’s like he finally twigged that he needed to up his game rather than being as a result of a string of games. Remember, he had several litttle runs and goals last season but still didn’t really convince anybody.
So, what I’m saying is, most top players tend to come in and make their mark immediately and stay there. It’s relatively rare for a player to be average for a 3-4 year period and then suddenly ‘get it’.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
@11. The thing is - I believe the match Vs Man U, regardless what competition, means more to AW than anyone of us, giving his relationship with Fergie.
But managers, unlike us the fans, when they made a decision, they got far more factors to consider about. As for fans, we can all have our opinions, yet at the end of the day, we don’t have to live with the outcome.
i don’t think Ade, Flamster had a big injury concern neither, yet probably they were carrying a slight knock. take into consideration the up and coming fixtures, even if we do not agree with AW ’s decision, at least we should understand where he’s coming from. To me, it’s a sensible decision.
let’s also bare in mind one thing - the last time we won the FA Cup probably only us the Arsenal fans would still remember. When talking about Arsenal, media and opposite fans the likes always remind us we hadn’t won ANYTHING since 2004.
I do not feel that bad after this United defeat, cos i so so want to shut the world’s mouth up after seeing our team enduring so much sticks over the years. And i know well enough that a FA Cup will not achieve that. If we can win the league comes the end of the season, nobody would remember our FA Cup or Carling trashing by our rivals. apart from Spurs and Man U fans.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
While I see your point DannyT and agree with you, I don’t think the Manager could field a youth team for a FA Cup match against ManUre without having the whole country want to raise him to the gallows. Look at the stick he already gets about not fielding any English players. Doing what you suggest would be so transparent that everyone would shimmy up to the whipping post to hand him out a few lashes. I’m not offering an excuse as a fan I disgusted by the whole affair I’m just trying to make sense out of what did happen. As for the injury list we’ll see on Wednesday.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
well, adebayor has been average all his life and suddenly he isnt.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
“So, what I’m saying is, most top players tend to come in and make their mark immediately and stay there. It’s relatively rare for a player to be average for a 3-4 year period and then suddenly ‘get it’.”
Mazza, wasn’t that exactly the case of Flamini and Adebayor? they didn’t exactly just make their mark right away after joining us did they?
February 16th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
u hit the nail on the head stoned hooker. lol.
as for lucas neill. i do agree he is the sort of hardman wingback that is needed on both wings as backup for games like this.
the problem however is that he is currently earning 80k per week at West Ham…clichy and sagna dont earn half of that.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Andez, of course Flamini didn’t make his mark immediately, that’s why I said that cases like his are relatively rare.
Adebayor has been here only two years and you couldn’t really say he was average last year. Rio Ferdinand and John Terry said he was their most difficult opponent. With Ade it was all about finishing and ironing out chinks. No one said anything remotely positive about Flamini in the last few years.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
I agree Andez. We all know the priority here and in a world of football globalization, the FA Cup does not rank high on the pole compared to the Champions League. For Pete’s sake, I’ll be watching the game on an Italian cable channel here in Canada, as will Italians around the globe watching in their respective countries. How do you loose a game with class if you’re not even trying, as Arsenal did today? Any which way but sideways it’s going to be ugly. If this was a 1-0 loss instead of the drubbing this wouldn’t even be an issue.
Please don’t get me wrong I want Arsenal to win every damn match they play but then I’m not out on the pitch. If they had of fielded me for the game they would of hung Wenger for sure, as I’m handicapped. That said, I would have played if they asked me – can you tow a can of oxygen and play at the same time. Okay, I would have played without the oxygen.
February 16th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
as andez said, if we do win the FA cup, every body will still say we havent won anything since 04.
but if we do win the CL and the PL, the entire world media will dub us the “greatest team in the history of football” or something ridiculous like that.
and no danny, you dont have to be that great to win the CL. as long as you dont commit tactical gaffes, work hard and get some good luck any of the top 3 from spain, england and italy can win it.
we CAN win the league, we CAN win the CL.
i hope we win both. it will really cement us in the top echelon.
February 16th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Sorry for the spam but I sitting here laughing my arse off at the thought of wheelchair wheels sinking into the pitch at Old Trattford as the Arsenal Handicapped squad entered the pitch for the match.
February 16th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
i have a strong feeling we might see RvP and rosicky against milan. i dont know where the hunch comes from … but something seems seriously fishy when wenger says RvP is “doing very well but is still a few weeks away”:
does anyone else notice that on the arsenal website the name of his injury has changed at least 5 times in the last 2 or 3 weeks?? groin, then virus, then knee, then “redone his former hamstring”, not its thigh injury.
thigh injuries are quite short relative to the others.
February 16th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
No mazza, it’s actually not that rare. Pires for instance, also had an average first season. Not to mention Hleb, took him even longer. Toure is another example.
anyway, the bottom line is - i m not saying a player has a run of game will definitely become good player. but it surely help than being in and out. and basically my point is to pointing out the difficuilities a finge player is facing. particular those who are young.
February 16th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
i m the least greedy i guess! A Premiership title alone will do for me! take the pressure of the kids’ shoulders, those kids can’t win things crap. then we can relax and enjoy a nice Euro 2008 + the Olympia. Next season…. let’s WIN THEM ALL!
February 16th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Well it depends on people’s defination of average. Hleb was always good in my book. Pires was only poor for the first six months, Toure looked a star from the moment he came on against Chelsea in August 2002 and scored the equaliser against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. Flamini was drab for a whole three years.
I agree in principle with what your saying but I just feel in Flamini’s case it wasn’t really due to that, although it surely helped him sustain it,
February 16th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
We blew today, end of story. I really think Arsene needs to get things in order for this Wednesday’s match against AC Milan. I really hate playing ManU in the FA Cup and as we have in the past we blew it again.
Looking ahead with a 5 point lead in the EPL and a big CL match on the way, we really need to kick it into gear and look to hold onto some trophies.
Come On Arsenal!
February 17th, 2008 at 12:01 am
Arsenal had a rough outing, but a 1-0 loss or a 4-0 thrashing, doesn’t make a difference. If we have a big win over AC Milan Wednesday, none of us will care about today’s beating anymore.
http://www.wickeddeflection.com
February 17th, 2008 at 12:37 am
I too will take ONLY the league title happily. But we definitely need a trophy this year. I know even 2nd place would be a huge improvement over last year, but after leading by 5 pts, if we don’t win it, it would be a much bigger psychological blow to the young players than 5-1 or 4-0 defeats in the CC or FA Cup.
I also believe that Sagna, Clichy, Flamini and Ade will all be back for Wed’s game vs Milan. The thing with these two legged games is that a win in the first leg does not guarantee passage. We must concentrate on keeping a clean sheet at home. An away goal for Milan could be too much to claw back.
February 17th, 2008 at 12:49 am
The Seville defeat was followed by 1W 1D 1L.
The Boro defeat was followed by 4W (including Chelsea and Spurs).
The Spurs defeat was also followed by 4W (ManCity being the notable opposition)
Enough reasons to feel confident of a recovery. Can we do it just one more time?
Next 4 games - Milan, Birmingham, Villa and Milan.
February 17th, 2008 at 1:26 am
[...] Wayne Rooney gave United the lead in the 16th minute. Anderson’s flicked found an unmarked Wayne Rooney to nod the ball passed Lehmann. [...]
February 17th, 2008 at 3:16 am
The league game at OT is on April 12. That’s close to two months away. Fergie’s assertion that this result will have a bearing on that game is a little off the mark. A lot can happen between now and then. What remains to be seen is if this loss has any effect on the Arsenal players for the next two games, both of which are must win games.
February 17th, 2008 at 3:30 am
Isn’t it such a nice friendly place all of a sudden? Here’s my thoughts on the performance:
The only people to come out of that wreck with any kind of credit were Dudu, NB(who looked good early on BTW) , Traore to an extent, Toure(excused mainly coz he wasn’t fit) and Lehmann for a couple of sweeper clearances. Everyone else were woeful.
I think this illustrates quite clearly that apart from our poster boy playmakers its Mathieu Flamini that we miss much more when he is not playing. The moment he came on he was running around making life tougher. Haven’t we lost all the games when he hasn’t started?? Nah…Diarra is much better…oh wait…
Secondly Gilberto is gone…I think. I’m not saying he’s the only culpable one but haven’t we lost every game he’s started in? Anyway I guess AW’s hand was forced this time…who else apart from Gilberto was fit anyway? Henri Lansbury? Sorry but you can’t throw a kid in at Old Trafford .. it’ll be too early…
Thirdly Cesc has been woeful for quite a while now…probably since he returned from injury. Apart from that one goal and a few nice moves here and there he has done absolutely zilch coming back. Hleb maybe a little bit less to blame but the early season promise of both of them has worn off completely now and they are having lesser and lesser impact on games as teh season wears on. That said…if they can turn it on ala AC Milan for just that big 4 games end of season and the CL and make a big impact I won’t complain at all.
Eboue got what he deserved ; numerous times he’s done that and got away…glad he got a damn red. Maybe he’ll realize that he cant keep doing that all the time. I’m thinking…what has Eboue done as a winger this season? Yes pace and power…but little else and zero goals. Add his theatrics in…and its not a great package. One more year? or will he go?
No point talking about Justin Hoyte..every attack came through him and while Old Trafford is a tough place he’s been at blame numerous times this season. Traore wasn’t the worst player…atleast he was going forward at times and there were far fewer attacks on the left side than the right so he doesn’t get a total lashing. I thought he was actually a bit better than most here. Toure was unfit…and unmatch fit as well maybe. Arsene wouldn’t have played him if he wasn’t fit - injuries meant otherwise though.
Dudu and Bendtner - Only ones to come out with any credit. Dudu especially tried a lot to do something and I’m glad he’s settling down into the club coz he has a lot to offer.
Lastly…William Gallas. Someone please tell me something….William Gallas has made as many mistakes and has been directly responsible for many goals this season. He’s made in the air mistakes numerous times and has sent headers straight to opposition players numerous times. yet he seems to always be above criticism here…I can gurantee that if Senderos had made the same mistakes people would’ve been screaming from teh rooftops about Wenger’s blind spots for sure. Yes Gallas has given leadership to a young team and has had an impact…but talking football…on field performance I’m not sure how worse Senderos would’ve done and he hasn’t done badly this season at all…has he?…Gallas also has atleast 1 mistake a game — it doesn’t cost us at times…and does at others..but he has blinders for the remaining 89″…Sound FAMILIAR???….If Sendy had played instead of Gallas. I’d like people to honestly think about this and reply if they think there’s a point here. Yesterday 2nd and 3rd goal…Gallas is directly responsible…or NO?
February 17th, 2008 at 3:32 am
Oh and finally…Lehmann didnt have all that great a game…the 3rd and 4th goal he probably should have stopped anyway…or sent out for a corner atleast.
February 17th, 2008 at 4:59 am
I can’t believe that people are predicting doomsday for Arsenal again after this one loss…i mean what were people expecting?
I’m a die hard Arsenal fan…but here’s what I did…watched the Liverpool Barnsley Match…saw that great last minute goal..and then switched off the TV without waiting for Arsenal’s match…and a one against Man Utd at that
From all the pre-game build up…and the injuries…it was pretty clear that this was one match which we will not turn up for …call it sacrilege but in fact i was actually wishing that we don’t progress in this match ….we would just need to concentrate on the CL and League ..with defined match days….and a squad that will be clear on what they have to do ….
Add a FA cup match here and there….a replay for a tie match …leading to changed league match schedule…and..sooner or later you lose your focus..and the chance to win anything…leave along 3 titles.
I’m sure Wenger knows what he is doing….even if we lose to AC Milan…he’s taken a gamble ….and I respect him for that. The Squad is just not strong enough to be competing on all three fronts…no way…If they win something this season..they will be ready to compete on all fronts….but till they win something…it’s not going to be the case….you just have to strategise..have a clear idea of what you want to be doing this season and go and achieve that….I’m sure this is the way AW has looked at it..and this is the way we’ll see things playing out.
Cheers
Wayne
@LDE…..I am in Mumbai..live in Andheri and work at Cuffe Parade..sure we can meet up sometime
.. let me know
February 17th, 2008 at 5:11 am
LDE, I don’t know how Lehmann could have saved the 3rd and 4th goals? I did feel for a moment that he could have probably saved the 1st goal by charging out of his line, but 3rd and 4th I don’t see how.
February 17th, 2008 at 7:07 am
@nip#36: The 3rd went under his body if you look carefully…it wasn’t as if it was out of reach or something. He’s made better saves than that before…he dived over the ball here. The 4th goal again…he’s got both hands to the ball and pushed it upward into the goal..he hasn’t missed it or not got to it…First goal and for that matter the whole game…How the hell was Anderson getting so far forward I don’t know? Second goal we stand off…all of us and allow a cross to come in….how? why? Collective gaffes…everyone of them…although certain individuals are more to blame for the goals.
Still though I agree with Wayne and Andez earlier…I’ll be happy if we win the EPL ..I’d love it if we whop Milan and win the CL but if we keep our head for 12 games and win the league I’d love it even more and I’d settle for a last 8 ..last 4 CL spot if we cant win it….ideally both would be great. It wasn’t the fact we lost that bothers me….I’m only worried whether certain players are starting to think too much of themselves…hopefully I’m wrong.
February 17th, 2008 at 7:32 am
That was rank unprofessional by The Arsenal yesterday.
The attitude from the manager down to the guys coming off the bench did the history of this STILL great competition,the traveling support and the club a GROSS disservice.
No point in telling them that they should ALL be embarrassed because they just don’t give a damn.
I fully expect them to “turn up” for the game against Milan seeing as they felt it wasn’t worth their while bothering with Man U.
THEY HAD BETTER !!!!
February 17th, 2008 at 7:39 am
LDE, I don’t know if you have GK anytime, but shots which are hit hard and close to the body are usually tougher to save than those which are at a good distance for the GK to dive. I definitely don’t consider the 3rd goal to be a mistake.
On the 4th goal, it was very bad defense from Arsenal. Hoyte gave Nani all the time in the world and Lehmann had to run from one end of the goal to the other, when he crossed the ball. Notice that Flamini let Fletcher head totally unchallenged, by which time Lehmann had not fully recovered. Again, I cannot fault Lehmann when others had done zilch.
Only on the first goal, I feel Lehmann could have come out like he does on corners. Anyway, I don’t know if Wenger will throw Almunia back into such a big game. I think the reason he played Toure y’day was so that Toure is not shocked into a return vs Milan.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I’ve GK’d at times Nipuna but I’ve never played at a professional level so I may not understand its nuances that well. But it does seem strange..that Ole’s shot last year might have been easier to save than Nani’s yesterday. I dunno..can you explain technically why thats the case?
The 4th goal yes…I said it wasn’t just Lehmann didn’t I…its a collective gaffe every one of the goals…the second was the worst IMO…the moment I saw zonal marking without a close down I knew it was going to be a goal. Anyway..I hope Clichy and Sagna are fit for Milan else we could be in trouble.
February 17th, 2008 at 11:06 am
like Wayne, I didnt see the game live - no point spoiling the weekend
I take it as a tiny glitch that we lost nothing more. Kinda feel sorry for Justine (note the ‘e’). Looks like MANCs simply decided to do a Jose Morinho on him and it worked to full effect. Traore seems to have been lucky b/c once the MANCs realized that Justine was fair game they didnt seem to bother with him.
I also think it was simply a matter of weathering the storm for the first 20 minutes and then slowing coming into the game. Unfortunately the 20 minutes went south fast and sometimes that’s life.
That said, I think it’s easy to conclude that Arsene has quite some confidence in the fringe players he featured yesterday. Now if any of these dudes are going to ever make it in an Arsenal shirt then games - or should I say losses - like this (and against spurs) are what they need to either make or break them so I’m not that bothered.
Finally like I said earlier I didnt watch the game only just saw the highlights
so if I just blabbed rubbish… I cant help it 
February 17th, 2008 at 11:10 am
btw, lemme also say that I’m more than content with just winning only EPL… any other thing will be bonus.
b4 d season i’d have taken only CC so even just EPL is a little greedy but what can I say?!
February 17th, 2008 at 11:34 am
yeah, the EPL is our absolute priority. i will be very happy with the title and a quarterfinal or semifinal place in the CL.
the best thing about our run-in now is that our schedule is fixed. no variations anymore. we have between 14 and 19 games left to play this season depending on how we get in the CL. its all fixed and we can just calm down into a routine.
February 17th, 2008 at 11:42 am
against milan the team has to play solid and make as few mistakes as possible. the whole team has to be competent at their basic tasks….but in truth this match will be ALL about fabregas and hleb.
a “slow” game, no rushing, a nice slick pitch, protection from the referee, bright european stage. they have NO excuses. they have to come up with the goods.
i am quietly confident the duo can deliver on wednesday.
my only fear now is that since rosicky isnt fit and wenger might play gilberto. that would be terrible.
February 17th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Thats highly likely to happen Fred. Somethings wrong with Cesc…I dont know. Growing pains maybe?
February 17th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
i think he will come good. he will be a bit subdued in the first half and step up the tempo in the second.
i think we can do it….maybe 1-0 or 2-1.
February 17th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
We absolutely need a clean sheet. An away goal to Milan will make out task very difficult. 1-0 is a lot better than 2-1.
February 17th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
I don’t see how is acceptable to not turn up for a match against Manchester United… because its “just the FA Cup”.
When was our last trophy?
ManU v Arsenal, in any competition, and folks mention they just click it off, and why bother watching? Huh?
Sorry, you try and win any trophy you can… used to be EVERY trophy you can. No excuses. Thats what GREAT teams do.
Fans travel all over the country in the cold and rain… support the team no matter what… and you turn up and give that type of effort, that type of performance, and thats OK, because what did you expect???
Hey, maybe I’m insane… but if thats an acceptable attitude on the part of the club and players, then English Football is done as we know it. Its what makes it a bit different than other leagues and sports in my humble opinion.
Supporters spending their hard earned cash (and more and more of it with rising ticket prices) to go see their team at home and on the road… giving their ALL for the love of a football team… it makes the atmosphere at matches SPECIAL. If you want half empty stadiums… with no atmosphere… watch Italy.
It was not acceptable. Its not acceptable to say, oh well, its just the FA Cup… we’re going to lay down like dogs because we can’t beat United without our best players all 100%.
OK.
Rant over.
On to the Milan match!
February 17th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
We must not …must not at any cost concede a single away goal. If we do and its 2-1 or 3-2 we’re fucked at the San Siro. Look what happened to ManU .. Sure we’re different but Milan will be very very tough to beat there with Kaka fully fit and a 0-0 might be the best result. We have to put as many past them at The Grove.
February 17th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
dude, havent we all said this …calm down. it wasnt an acceptable performance in any way but going out of the FA cup is a good thing for our season.
u didnt expect us to make the top 4 this season so do you now believe we have the strength and depth to actually go for a treble???
given all the injuries and our relatively thin squad progressing any further in the FA cup would have crippled us, just the same way the cups crippled us last season. so basically progress in the FA cup would have lowered our chance of winning anything at all.
so calm down, get over it. the league and the CL are the only significant titles. next season we will be stronger.
February 17th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
lets all remember that last january, after beating Man U at the emirates we were just 8 points behind them with a game in hand. chelsea is currently 8 points behind us WITHOUT a game in hand.
so yeah, the carling cup semi/final and the FA cups and replays REALLY killed us last season.
forget the cups…move on!
February 17th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Well… at least we didn’t lose to Barnsley…
One item that has yet to enter the discussion is Lehmann’s crap distribution out of the back. Generally, when Almunia distributes the ball, he puts it to the feet of the defenders, or into space for the midfield to run on to and start the attack at speed. For Lehmann, it was shanks and sky balls all day long that forced our MF to set up camp underneath it and wait, allowing time for the 5 Midfielders for ManU to run up and challenge for the ball. Combine this with Gilberto’s horizontal passing across our outnumbered midfield (even at 11v11), and it’s no wonder that our strikers got no service.
On top of that, with Traore and Hoyte both getting overrun on the flanks… it was a a pretty sad spectacle for our side.
Well, here’s hoping the boys can put it together for Milan, and we start to see some folks return from the treatment table.
February 17th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
No Stag, I don’t think nobody really feel FA Cup is not important, or losing to Man U is acceptable.
As I said before, sometimes you gotta look at the bigger picture. Sure we could have played our strongest lineup. But with Clichy, Flamini and Adebayor carrying a slight knock, if we risk them, there is a geniue chance they may suffer an injury. And those are the players we simply can’t do without for the rest of our campaign.
In THEORY, you should have played your best team every game. But for a manager’s job it’s never that straightforward. We need to be realistic sometimes.
and noticed here - I didn’t see Man Utd, or Liverpool played their strongest side neither. Ferguson didn’t even put Ronaldo on the bench. If they lost, perhaps the Man U fans would be talking about the same things you been talking about, that no respect to FA Cup, or u should play ur strongest lineup stuffs like that.
Yet the truth is - it’s not Wenger, Ferguson or anyone else that DEVALUED the FA Cup. The moment when they created PREMIERSHIP, it sealed the fate of the FA Cup. Cos it’s all about $$$ from then on.
As far as I m concerned, neither Fergie or AW was wrong not fielding their strongest team. They all had the up coming CL in mind. The only difference is United has proved that they got more strength in depth than us. At least this season. And fair play to them, they beat us fair and square. So let’s move on.
February 17th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Does anybody else think this game smacks of Wenger genius? Think about it, you spread your main rivals for the EPL title a little thinner by making them focus on THREE competitions instead of just the league and the CL. This makes every game for ManU a must win. If ManU wins the FA cup and loses the the EPL and the CL I think we’ll all feel better about yesterday. The pressure is on them to catch us. And anything can happen in cup competitions look at Liverpool.
February 17th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
well, its not really genius, its simply common sense. even in our “invicible” season, the FA cup nearly f-cked us over.
it will be sweet if chelsea could draw Man U away just before we visit stamford bridge!
February 17th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Oh yeah, real genius. Send your players out with a couldn’t give a shit attitude and get hammered by your biggest rivals for the second time in 5 weeks. If we come away with nothing this season, we’ll be a laughing stock because of these results.
Our biggest game of the season will not be in the Champions League, because Wenger’s record tells you we haven’t a cat in hell’s chance of winning it - no, it will be Man Utd away on 12th April - and now we’ll go into that game with fear, and they’ll go into it with total confidence. Genius!
February 17th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Andez, yes people said on this site, its not important… some clicked off the TV and didn’t watch it?
I do not mind Arsenal and Wenger not putting out the best possible team, and risking it all… it was totally about the EFFORT.
There was NONE. It was non-existant.
Thats my only issue. Thats my point.
The lack of effort and determination were atrocious.
Its an insult to the supporters who traveled all that way to see them play.
We have had this discussion in prior years. YES, there are people that don’t care about the FA Cup. I love the competition. I think it is a special competition.
If we aren’t going to truly try to win it, perhaps Wenger should let the supporters know, so we don’t invest our time, money and energy in getting behind the team during the FA Cup matches. Play it like we do the Carling Cup.
That would be fine with me. But be HONEST about it.
You can’t trot your B-squad out there against United. You get embarrased.
Effort. Fans appreciate it.
Over the last few years, when we’ve played teams off the pitch… Leeds, Portsmouth, others… The other teams supporters often got LOUDER, sang MORE … the bigger the deficit got for them. They realized that the players WERE giving there best effort, and they just were being outplayed.
Should the Arsenal players have been clapped off the pitch yesterday?
I think not.
Thats the point. Feck the Cup. Whatever. Wenger doesn’t care about it? OK. Don’t bother with it then. Whats the point?
Fred… yes. You were 100% correct. You thought we’d compete for the league, I didn’t. But expectations change with success. When you haven’t won a trophy for a few YEARS now, and you have the chance to do so, you should probably try and win one!
Expectations have changed. Is it better for us to be out of the FA Cup?
Well, you can say yes right now… but if we lose 2-0 to AC Milan on Wednesday, then I’d probably be happier if we drew against United and had a replay at the Emirates.
You shouldn’t play one match… focusing on what might possibly occur in another…
Long term? Maybe its better we go out of the CL too…
then we can just focus on winning the league… have no distractions at all.
Right?
Why not?
February 17th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
I find it hard to believe any manager would tell his players ahead of a FA Cup clash “go out lads and enjoy yourselves, the result is not important, let’s don’t give a shit of this FA Cup shall we?”.
But I find it even more hard to believe fans would actaully BELIEVE that.
February 17th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
I think it may have been more subtle than that Andez.
February 17th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
@ 57, well, the FA cup is not the CC cup, it will drag on up till may. we have a very thin squad and we have a lot of injuries. that is just plain fact.
we need the CL and the league….but most importantly we need the league. the league is the priority. the team that wins the league is the best team in the land.
and if we do win the league and Man U wins the FA cup, guess who will be more satisfied?
going for all 3 is practically the equivalent of throwing three balls into the air and trying to catch them all. you end up with none.
and if we dont win the league this season……..all the negative idiots in the world would come out in the summer to proclaim our doom.
yes the performance was unacceptable……but once again just forget the cups.
we can deal with that next season.
February 17th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
@ 56: we dont have a “cat’s hell chance” of winning the CL?
i remember us getting to the final, a final we would have won with 11 players. yeah, there was some luck in our run…….but there was also luck in liverpools win as well.
there are about 10 teams that have a chance of winning the CL. and we are DEFINITELY one of them. our chances are a bit lower than some other tactically wiser teams but it is not a “cat in hell’s” chance. its much better than that.
February 17th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
As is evident from his comments on Arsenal.com, Wenger does not suffer from any delusions about what happened on Saturday. He rightly referred to it as a “hiding” and did not see any positives from it other than “we do not have anymore injuries than we had at the start of the game.” Wenger also made clear that “[n]obody was fit on the bench and all of them were recommended as risky. The most dangerous player was Clichy who I did not touch at all.” Thus, there is no guarantee that Clichy will be playing on Wednesday; nor, based on Wenger’s comments on Sagna, i.e., that “maybe he is not available on Wednesday. He has a big family problem,” is there a guarantee that Sagna will play on Wednesday. Moreover, even if those two play on Wednesday, it seems that we cannot and should not expect their typical level of play.
Having said that, I believe both the Tottenham and ManU cup games merely demonstrate Arsenal’s lack of depth; they do not foretell disaster for Wednesday nor on April 12th. Wenger did not spend more than $60 million pounds for 3 midfielders as Ferguson did for Hargreaves, Nani, and Anderson. Nor do I think he should have.
The team has achieved a great deal this year. I think the payoffs for persisting with Adebayor and Flamini more than outweigh the deficits of persistently using Eboue, Hoyte, and Gilberto as well as possibly Senderos (although we don’t hear as many complaints about him on this site as we used to.) I wish Wenger had been able to keep Diarra and get rid of Gilberto this January but there is probably more to that than meets the eye (such as Diarra insisting he be played ahead of Flamini which Wenger would not do).
Yes, it was highly aggravating and embarrassing to have to watch Saturday’s massacre (which could have been much worse) in the company of ManU fans but damn, I’ll pay that price any day, to be a fan of a club managed by a man like Wenger rather than one managed by a classless tyrant like Ferguson.
February 17th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
#56 I resent the anti cat remarks, as cats, nor any other animal, will be going to hell only people will. Additionally, hell will be primarily occupied by “Red Devils” and such like beings. That’s right, Old Purple nose is probably going to manage the squad down there and there will only be one team to support. If that doesn’t scare the cat shite right out of you nothing will.
It’s all about the league now with a modicum of hope for the CL Arsenal have more than a “Fergie’s chance of getting to heaven” of winning the league.
February 17th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
StonedEH, i must say i always enjoy reading ur remark!
and damn u r right, anyone in hell would not have to worry about the weight problem, for there would not be any animal there, so no worry for burger, hotdog, McDonald’s.
February 17th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
@52… “Well… at least we didn’t lose to Barnsley…” LOL
Now that’s an interesting positive…
February 17th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Sadly, Liverpool put a lot more effort in that Arsenal did - at least you can give them that.
February 17th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
but i bet Liverpool fans would have more to worry about had their team put in lot of effort yet still lost to Barnsley, at home.
February 17th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
I don’t think we’re in a position to gloat having been completely humiliated by Utd and Spurs recently. Who knows, maybe there is more humiliation to come - we haven’t won anything yet.
February 17th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
well, i don’t think i was “gloating” of anything. Simply replied to ur post 66. it wasn’t be who brought up Liverpool anyway.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
I think that @52 statement is more of a reflection of Liverpool’s entire season. We’ve got something to cheer for but Liverpool’s been one sad turn after the other - technically they could still win CL though.
The thing is its not all gloom and doom for us. There’s almost as much hope that something good will come out of the season as there is for any other of the top two - something that pool obviously cant brag about right now…
Like I’ve said b4 I didnt bother seeing the game so maybe that’s why the rants here seem really comic to me (trust me I hate the MANCs more than Spurs)….
February 17th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Question: Would you rather have an uninspired performance in an FA Cup, Carling Cup, EPL, or Champions League?
Yes I agree the performance was terrible but if there’s one thing the kids have proven is that they can forget bad performances and move on and play exceptionally well the next game. I expect this to happen Wed.
As far as approaching the next ManU game with fear. How about approaching the next ManU game with a chip on our shoulder. It’s not the end of the world. We have another game with them. If we win it it’ll be a huge blow to their chances.
He who laughs last laughs best right?
February 18th, 2008 at 2:00 am
An uninspired performance against Manchster United?
Seriously, how is that possible.
You tell me it happens against West Ham or Derby … OK, I get it… its going to happen to just about every team… but no way. Thats downright alarming.
I’d say the CL is a “Cup” competition as well… isn’t it?
It certainly isn’t league, thats for sure.
Wednesday will be very interesting.
Do I think we can win the Champion’s League?
I’d give us a better chance than a cat’s chance in hell!!!!!!!
The style of play suits us better there. (as does it suit Liverpool).
If you remember the unlikely run to the Finals a few years back, well… we weren’t as talented as most of the teams we played. We just OUT WORKED THEM. We gave divine effort… had great determination… played with pride.
We basically did every thing we did NOT do on Saturday.
That to me is the point. Its not always the best team that wins. Its about commitment and will sometimes.
So thats why the pathetic display on Saturday set off alarms for me. Its not a light switch that can be turned off and on. OK, its the CL, so NOW we are going to really try?!!!
Please. AC Milan are easily as talented as ManU.
If we show up and play anywhere close to what we showed on Saturday, we’ll be out of the CL.
Having said that… we could make the CL final as well. Its about the draw, timing, luck, and of course… playing well at the right time.
February 18th, 2008 at 3:01 am
once again, incase you guys still dont get it.
the league is NUMERO UNO. number one. the main prize for us this season. we NEED to win the league.
the champions league is a wonderful and close second because we havent won it before. we dont have to but we will go 100% for it.
sod the domestic cups and stop overreacting.
February 18th, 2008 at 6:02 am
@Stag..I can fully understand where you are coming from regarding the poor performance on Saturday…..I guess those of us who watched it on TV etc may find it far more easy to take this loss and move on…the fans who travelled to OT and spent some hard earned money on the game may feel cheated…but here’s the deal…i’m sure that if Arsenal win the EPL or CL (or both) it will be far more easy to accept this poor performance
This is the way i look at things…
By all accounts i’m sure all of us agree that this team has exceeded all our expectations so far this season…..this team is a project that Wenger has planned and executed over the last 2-3 years….the team is not quite there but is on the cusp of becoming one of the best teams that we have ever seen in football….
Take this scenario….. The team puts in the performance of their lives in the FA cup match on Saturday…..let’s take a hypothetical case that playing on full strength they beat Man Utd at OT..the team is hailed by the media and everyone on Arsenal America
…..then a couple of days later they are up against AC Milan….fresh from their success against Man Utd…the team is absolutely focused on beating AC Milan…..and after a great match..they beat ACM as well….now that they have got this out of the way..it’s back again with renewed focus to destroy a Birmingham team…..How plausible is this scenario?
There may still be people saying that of course it’s possible..only 3 matches…so let’s go further..the media is praising the Gunners team…this team is on the way to a treble…the new invincibles they’ll say..with every match there will be increased focus and pressure on the Arsenal team to deliver……with luck we’ll draw Chelsea in the next round of the FA cup and Barca in the next CL round….and things will go on and on and on till the end of the season…..
Tell me honestly….i know the team is good but do you think our young team can handle this kind of pressure??
Or how about this one….the team is in contention for all 3 titles…but ultimately only go on to win the FA cup and lose the EPL and the UCL …..come the end of the season…how would you view the season for this team..a success or a failure?….maybe a small success..but the FA cup win will probably remain in people and the team’s mind in this year…next year will have to be a fresh start and of course talk about how the Young guns couldn’t handle the pressure last season.
and lastly how about this one……the team lost the FA cup match against Man Utd…..Wenger and the team are getting brickbats from everyone….but they have been focused on the CL and are determined to give a good performance there…win or lose it will be a good match…the team ultimately wins only the EPL and loses the UCL or wins the UCL and just about loses the league…come the end of the season..will anybody call it a failure for the gunners?…..
Bottomline is…..winning either the EPL or the UCL will be one of the greatest moments in the history of the Gunners…..winning the UCL because it will be the first time..and the EPL because we would be winning it when no one even gave us a chance.
There could also be a scenario wherein we don’t win anything…but looking at the possibilities described above and the probability of success….that’s a risk that needs to be taken
My only complaint about the team about the performance on Saturday would be Gallas getting himself into trouble for kicking Nani and Eboue getting sent off…..that’s something which we could have done without (this is based on reading some of the posts….. i haven’t seen the incidents)
Cheers,
Wayne
February 18th, 2008 at 6:11 am
not sure what has been written already but again im a bit worried about wenger’s post-match analysis.arsenal.com are a biased lot but some of the shit said by wenger pisses me off.
he refuses to contenance eboue…the most ineffective, ill-disciplined and unintelligent players ever to grace the club.only recently he remarked on fabregas’ ability to cure his own ill-discipline..which i think has not been fully cured. now wenger refuses to slap this guy on the wrist.his first game back since ACN and he once again lets the team down.was absolutuely anynomous before that and evra has him in his pocket.if he plays against milan im gonna freak
then the other excuses…poor pitch, injured players etc.albsolute rubbish and hiding the fact he failed to inspire or prepare his team well enough.ferguson once again outthought the ‘prof’.brown,fletcher,evra and anderson were overly aggressive, figthing with pride and passion.something that we lacked.
February 18th, 2008 at 6:15 am
oh and its not as if we have not seen showboating at highbury during wenger’s era.he implicitly criticises Nani, who is a prick, but this is part of the game and a way of humiliating your rivals.i have seen Henry pick up the ball on a flank and solo it for a while goading the opposition.wenger shouldnt be so hypocritical
February 18th, 2008 at 6:22 am
To the press, Wenger is one of the most hypocritical managers around. His typical “I didn’t see that incident” typifies that attitude. From a fan’s perspective, one should attach very little relevance (if any) to his post match comments, specifically after a defeat. I have tried to do that in recent years.
February 18th, 2008 at 9:17 am
Having reflected on the weekend, after initially being infuriated by our performance at Old Trafford, I still feel pretty much the same as I did immediately after the game.
I think one point you’re all missing, is that once players go down that road of picking and choosing which games they want to “turn up” in, it’s not long before you end up BEING Liverpool or Tottenham. That’s why they are where they are, because the players cannot motivate themselves week in week out, or the manager cannot motivate. Once that starts happening you have a big problem.
For me, football is primarily a game of entertainment. I can tolerate one competition (Carling Cup) being ditched, but not two. I feel Wenger should make his feelings to supporters a bit more clear, because the fans who spent a fortune to attend that game in Manchester must feel conned right now, and there are a lot of fans who want the club to win the FA Cup and probably feel that the team should be trying to win no matter how it affects the other competitions.
Wenger is the boss and I respect his decision to rest players, but what I don’t respect is players going out there and not even caring or trying and this should be made abundantly clear to them.
So let’s just hope the players don’t start looking at AC Milan’s league position and drawing conclusions - and let’s hope Wenger tells them that!
When I say Arsenal have not got a cat in hell’s chance of winning the Champions League, I am merely going by statistics - we haven’t won the competition since its conception in 1955, so it seems unlikely to me we will win it to be honest. Add to that Wenger’s total lack of tactical acumen, I really can’t see it happening and don’t have massive confidence of getting past AC Milan based on historical performances under Wenger in the competition. One of two things will happen, either Milan ARE as shit as their league position indicates and Arsenal will physically roll them over, or, tactically they will make a fool of Wenger. Hopefully the former, probably the latter as far as I’m concerned - but more than happy to be be proved wrong.
February 18th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Wenger - “We need to be more cautious in the centre than we usually are. He’s [Kaka] especially dangerous at counter-attacking. I don’t know if I’ll use Gilberto for him.”
See what I mean? Utterly clueless.
February 18th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
The big problem I have is with this team right now, is that like Stag noted you should never have any problem getting up for Man U no matter what emphasis Wenger is placing on the league and CL. And you never see this happening to Man U, Chelsea or Liverpool. Sure, they lose these games too and there is the occasional upset like Liverpool this weekend, but you don’t see any other of the supposed “Big Four” rolling over like that not only once, but twice this season, and against big rivals.
February 18th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
I always believed that it is the off the field decisions that cost us n the long run. I was very disappointed when Wenger decided to sell Diarra. I do not understand why Diarra became unsettled at Arsenal. If someone is paying your salary (a good one), why should you complain. Eventually your time will come. ManUtd are just much deeper than us at the moment and we need a true right winger. I have said this in the past, we need a taller half back pairing than Gallas and Toure. Remember there was a reason why Mourinho moved Gallas to the left full back position at Chelsea: Chelsea were successful with two premiership titles back to back. We will always get killed in the air with a 5′11 and a 6′1 center back. We can complain that if we had our first team, it would be a different story but at the end of the day Wenger is responsible for making sure that Arsenal are deep in order to be covered for a whole season.
David, Arsenal fan NYC
February 18th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Wenger - “We need to be more cautious in the centre than we usually are. He’s [Kaka] especially dangerous at counter-attacking. I don’t know if I’ll use Gilberto for him.”
Sounds like Wenger will go 4-5-1 at home to Milan. A tactical move which will most likely backfire.
February 18th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Strength in depth is not something we are likely to see at Arsenal under Wenger. We might have 4CBs, 5 CMs, 4 WMs and 5 strikers, but you know clearly who are the top two and who are the backup.
One thing I envy ManU is their strength in depth. They had Saha and Rooney, but still signed Tevez. I know Saha is mostly injured, but so is RvP and Rosicky. They have Carrick but still sign Hargreaves. That will not happen at Arsenal. That’s why it is not possible to challenge on all fronts.
Every time someone says that we can’t sign van der Vaart because it will upset Hleb and Rosicky, I say bullshit. Would we have suffered 5-1 at WHL and 4-0 at OT if we have better depth? There are always enough games for the squad to play. Who wouldn’t want to win 4 trophies in a year?
The only plausible reason for not having depth is money. I can take that as a valid reason, but I still believe Wenger can have a squad better than we have right now.
February 18th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
I’d like to make clear the fact that I was gutted by Saturday’s performance. In my opinion it may very well be one of the worst Arsenal performances I’ve ever seen coupled with the Spuds loss in the CC a few weeks ago. I don’t like using such words with my beloved club but it was pathetic.
Sure, we don’t have the depth to win the treble, we could get lucky and win the CL but the EPL title remains a very real and tangible result for the team. The fact is as fans we can all taste silverware somewhere this year and with EPL title still on the menu we have to believe that it’s now ours to take or give away.
Now what concerns me about Sat. is that our defense of such a miserable showing is tantamount to defending everything I hate about the modern corporate game. Everyone knows where the money is, as it’s not a trail of bread crumbs but a huge festering pile of shite laying there for all to see. There’s no show me the money, it is crystal clear for all to see. So clubs chase corporate dreams and to hell with traditions or national treasures like the FA Cup.
I’m a Gunner through and through and will always be, the colours run through my blood. I think that Saturday is just a very sad comment on the state of modern football as a whole. What I hate most, is that when our club plays that modern corporate game, it balks at everything I love about tradition. Who could have pictured an Arsenal squad going out to play and not giving a shit?
I agree that the FA Cup is not as important as the CL for me. The CL has huge international ramifications; the FA Cup is a “poor man’s cup” in terms of overall revenues. The Carling Cup is a complete waste of time in terms of fixture congestion. The league title also resonates around the globe Champions of England. It seems some traditions no longer matter as everyone chases after money, money, money.
I think tomorrow I may go out and buy another Gunner Jersey just to give them a leg up so they don’t have to go out and loose like that again. Then again, maybe for Arsenal it’s not so much about the money as it is an ego thing.
February 18th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I totally agree with you. Exactly what I am talking about, as a manager, you are responsible for making sure that the Arsenal are deep in order to compete on all fronts for a whole season. This was all Wenger’s fault because he did not buy to strengthen. In fact, I believe he weaken us with the sale of Diarra. I would have sold Gilberto.
David
February 18th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Read on the Guardian that
“Bacary Sagna had been given compassionate leave following the sudden death of his brother.” for Sat’s game.
February 18th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
ManU get another home tie in the FA Cup. They might have faced premiership opposition in all the games, but three of them were at home.
I have a simple suggestion for the FA Cup. Firstly, I think we should do away with replays. This whole thing about playing for a draw and then beat them at home is quite a sad thing. Something like Blackburn did last year. Play 0-0 away and then sneak a 1-0 win at home. I don’t think we need that.
My suggestion is to play the tie in Davis Cup format. Just one game with extra time and penalties if required. Who gets home advantage? Simple. If the two teams are playing for the first time in the FA Cup, then the team which is lower in the league standings gets home advantage. If the two teams have played before, then you just switch the home and away teams. That way, you are always alternating. In 2003, we played ManU at OT, so this time we should have played at home.
February 18th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
For the most part, a consensus seems to have formed on this website. Namely, that Arsenal’s performance on Saturday was infuriating, that Arsene Wenger was incapable or unwilling to motivate his players, and that Arsene Wenger is utterly clueless tactically and has made off the field decisions that cost Arsenal in the long run. That’s fine, every fan is entitled to his or her opinion, and this site is for expressing such opinion.
So, in the fine tradition of expressing one’s opinion as an Arsenal fan on this website, let me express mine, an opinion that seems to be distinctly in the minority. In a season where Arsenal was predicted by many to finish out of the top 4, Arsenal is top of the table, 5 points ahead of the second place team, on February 18, with 12 games left to play. To achieve this status, Arsenal continues to play what is universally acknowledged to be some of the finest club football seen on the planet. Arsenal has played this kind of football for more than 10 years, a period of time that coincides with the reign of Arsene Wenger, the manager who is purportedly tactically clueless.
Fortunately, Arsene Wenger does not need to care what the people on this website, much less any website, write. Nor does Wenger need to concern himself with the criticisms of the British press or the television announcers who call games. In fact, much to the chagrin of the people on this site who criticize him, Wenger is not only stubbornly impervious to all criticisms of his on-field tactics, off-field moves, and his public comments but continues to have the full backing of the Arsenal board.
Why is that? Also, why is it that clubs like Real Madrid and Barcelona and countries like England and France are consistently rumored to be interested in Wenger’s services? More so, why is it that Arsenal fills up its new stadium for every game despite boasting by far the highest prices in the Premiership? Why is it that, in this month’s edition of 4-4-2, Jamie Carragher and Frank Lampard marvel at what Wenger is able to consistently achieve? Why is it that former players, even those that Wenger discarded or that Wenger upset in certain ways, virtually uniformly extoll his abilities?
The fact that this kind of dissatisfaction has formed on this website in a year where Arsenal is exceeding all expectations makes one question whether the view of Arsenal fans as fair weather, prawn-eating and spoiled is truly unwarranted.
February 18th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
DIEGO… werder bremen… very exciting player
check out the video
http://www.coysfutbol.com/storyonly/2008/2/17/232314/284
February 18th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
@ danny, i think its quite nonsensical to bring up the stats that because we have not won it since 1955 as a reason why we are unlikely to win it today. that makes absolutely no sense statistically or by common sense.
however bringing up wenger”s thought of putting in gilberto to mark kaka is a valid point. if gilberto plays or we play 4-5-1 then we can as well just forget it.
February 18th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
I for one see the Boss, the professor, Sir Wenger, as a genius of the modern game.
I’m also all puffed up about what this club has done this season and eagerly anticipate some silverware for the lads.
I also love fair over foul weather. Prawns are delicious, particularly the big fat ones, cooked on the BBQ in a garlic sauce; yum, yum. and washed down with a pint or three Does that make me spoiled?
Would loving foul weather, eating a greasy hot meal wrapped in newspaper and having a team that lost a lot make me a better fan or just fat, unhealthy and unhappy? Jeez, I just described a Spuds fan.
February 18th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Prawns are my favourite seafood. But I’d perfer to eat it in a restaurant, not the stadium.
btw, i’ve heard when Ramos took over, the Spurs squad combined with an extra 100kg fat they’d carried. guess that explains why they’d become the first ever team to ate themselves out of Champions League a couple years’ back.
February 18th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
villagegunner@88. I think you are reading the general dissatisfaction with the game on this site. It’s not THAT the team lost, after all, no team wins every game or it wouldn’t be much fun to follow the sport. It’s HOW they lost the game. They played like they didn’t care about the outcome and pretty much rolled over for Man U. Like I said earlier on the thread: it’s not that they lost the game, it’s that they have been thrashed twice this year in competitions by big rivals and you just won’t see that out of the other supposed Big Four clubs. Also, I’m not much of a complainer on this site in general, but usually people moan because they are so passionate about the team and want them to win so badly. The prawn sandwich crowd generally just stops following the team when things go south and jump back on at the first sign of success.
February 18th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
The complete lack of effort seems to be completely lost on some people. They might find it excusable but I hope to god Wenger doesn’t.
February 18th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
the thing is……..what is the point going over and over it……..its more than 48 hours ago and we have a big, big game in less than 2 days.
i have only been really upset after 2 games this season, against boro and pompey….and you rightly told me to calm down.
lets see what the milan game brings. then we can really judge the situation properly. if we can get a 1-0 victory against milan and win at the weekend, we will all forget about Man U. and even if we dont beat milan we have to avoid getting an hypertension.
the only thing we can do now is hope lessons are learnt.
February 18th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
You know DannyT there isn’t a website that I’ve read, a newspaper review, blog or any other media, where anyone has dismissed Saturdays match and that includes almost every Arsenal site. To the letter almost all have said it was a dismal performance and many have gone further to call it more. 9,000 fans probably wish they’d get there money back for their trip up north.
One can only hope that Wenger got it, damn