I was visiting friends and family this weekend - with no Fox Soccer Channel, and so I haven’t seen this game yet. I can only imagine the frustration level of everyone who did watch it was dangerously high, much like the past several league matches.
What I do know from text messages (Thanks Cam!) and reading other reports is that Boro took the lead thanks to former Gunner Jeremie Aliadiere, and then we were profligate in front of goal until Kolo’s header in the 86th minute. Thank God for that. It’s bad enough to have dropped five points to Boro, but all six? Anyway, ManUre won, Chelsea won, basically everyone but us and Spurs won, meaning we’ve dropped to second on goal-difference behind ManUre, and they’ve got a game in hand. So, as it stands, we’re now in a bit of trouble when it comes to the title race. We’ve got Chelsea away next week, and if we don’t get all three points there, we’ll be in a whole lot of trouble title-race wise.
Anyone who actually saw the match, please comment below (if you’re not all commented out already).
59 Responses to “Arsenal 1 - 1 Middlesbrough”
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March 17th, 2008 at 9:58 am
mikek, our most venerable admin, it seems to me and many that you need to deputize a few sheriffs and create a posse in assisting you keep the postings up-to-date. If only a score line and a few words as a new thread, anything is better than nothing for us citizens and guests at AA.
The last few months have been at best frustrating, wading through near 300 post threads or just looking for a thread to comment on the days game or the upcoming fixture. It’s becoming somewhat stale if not amateurish.
I’m sure that you know what I’m on about. This isn’t a criticism but a creative suggestion get a Deputy or two to help you. Each new thread doesn’t have to be a Doctoral Dissertation, it could for example be something like “Arsenal 10 - Chelsea 0, your thoughts on the match”.
March 17th, 2008 at 10:54 am
LOL
“Arsenal 10 - Chelsea 0, Ashley Cole quits football” will do me fine
March 17th, 2008 at 11:45 am
I agree with SEH. To a certain extend I think the few regulars here have been keeping this site going. We would post and comment on anywhere, such as with 90 comments talking about the Boro match under the thread of “AA SF branch meet-up”.
I can only imagine if you are not a regular here, you would have no idea why there are 90 comments there under a headline SF Branch Meetup, and with none of those 90 comments had anything to do with the title of the thread.
I hope the admin will take it as constructive opinion rather than criticism. AA will always have my support, and so do many other regulars here I believe. but at times i hope there will be more new faces (or names) here and offer us some new and different insight.
I have been here for about 4 seasons now, and really hope to see this site continue to grow.
March 17th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
It’s a shame. After the Blackburn game we were in a fabulous position; five points clear with 12 games remaining. Since then we’ve dropped 8 of 12 points and currently sit second behind Man Utd. who has played a game less. What’s worse is we dropped 6 of these points to three teams that are at the bottom of the table. There’s a huge gap between Boro who are 12th and West Ham who are 10th. We’ve dropped four of these points to teams that finished with 10 men. We’ve dropped 4 of these points at home.
I know everyone already knows this but it’s just a shame. Dropping points to Birmingham, Wigan, Middlesborough, and at home to Villa? Are you f*cking kidding me? We’ve gone from being five points clear to possibly six points back and in third place by Sunday night. I know it hasn’t happened yet but if it does, it’s absolutely amazing how quickly that’s happened. It’s just a shame to go from a position of such power to this.
Then our captain is talking trash about the motivation of other players. Who, exactly, was the freaking idiot that let Ali ghost in behind him on Saturday while he was busy raising his hand like a third grader who drank too much juice and has to go pee? I’ve watched all of our games twice this season and despite missing so many games to injury, Gallas has been skinned like that at least a dozen times. Sure, he’s been saved by Kolo, Almunia, and even Senderos but no one was there to save his ass on Saturday. And he’s got the fucking nerve to call out motivation of others in the team. If you want to raise your hand, Billy, let it be for accepting the blame for being the moron that screwed up. Let it be when you stop playing football and actually become an assistant referee. Until then, put your f*cking hand down and play football. Fucking Asslcown.
March 17th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Certainly not the first time Gallas raised his hand and stopped playing. The own goal against Villa started in the same way.
March 17th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Damnit. Chelski are playing the Spuds on Wednesday. I hate cheering for the Spuds.
This reminds me of the playoff race a few years back when Mark Prior told all the reporters he wouldn’t cheer for the Cardinals, even though they had to lose for the Cubs to make it in. Even though it’s better for us, I don’t know if I can honestly be satisfied if the Spuds beat or draw with Chelski. I’ll grudgingly accept it, I suppose… damn Spuds.
And meanwhile ManUre are facing another bottom-of-the-table team at mid-week.
March 17th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Gallas has hardly been blameless all season. He has put in good performances as well but IMO Sendy has been our best defender this year. Gallas wants to win..badly and he’s given the team that hunger..possibly the last missing ingredient for a champion team and I’ll be grateful for that. Football wise he has been average in most games, good in a few and brilliant in a few. I think Cesc has had a similar season though..although Gallas’s performances are more noticeable because of where he plays.
Once again though… we have enough in the tank to win the league and WILL WIN it.
March 17th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Andez..I think we are to blame as well to an extent. Mike has not been able to review and put stuff on at times; which is a bit of a demotivator but if you love Arsenal and you love to write ..you will write. So I’m not sure just the mods are to blame here…we need more people voluntarily contributing.
March 17th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Plenty of people have volunteered. Caribkid did last week but seemingly no one has picked him up on it.
March 17th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Mazza, where do you think our season would be without Adebayor? (referring to your posts on our last thread)
An aspect of his game may frustrate you but comon……
March 17th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Well, if we had someone like Torres, Berbatov, Keane, or another technically sound striker I think we would still be in a strong position.
Other strikers may not have the physical presence of Adebayor but they would improve our brandmark game which is our bread and butter. As I said, I like the Plan B-ish option Ade gives us, but for me it does not compensate for detrimental impact he has on our link-up play.
He has been a good asset and worked his socks off, but I don’t why he is seen as undroppable on the strength of a few good months. No one with a technique and vision that basic can be undroppable in my opinion.
March 17th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
….so your saying we’d have been better off without Adebayor? Torres, Berbatov, Keane would have seen us in a better position?
Or are you saying buy one of them as well and let Adebayor be the backup?
March 17th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
I think we know by now that you just like to be contrary Mazza and Adebayor is the latest in a long line of players you find an angle to slag.
If you think I’m being harsh folks read this little treasure…..
“Well, Adebayor was a complete crap until November, scored a few goals but played absolutely shit until the start of January. Then he managed to score goals as well not being a complete oaf in open play when Eduardo joined him in attack.”
Mazza’s take on our 23 goal boyo in his first Henry-free season as centre-forward with the help of NO regular partner. Pretty fair minded don’t you think? Meanwhile back at the ranch Rosicky clips his toenails and is the recipient of Mazza’s love and affection.
March 17th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Mazza, I bet you weren’t this hard on Ade a month or so ago. No one is going to score all of the time.Just for your information: Torres only has one more goal in the league than Ade and Berbatov and Keane are well below him. It doesn’t make sense to dog on him at this point looking back at what he has provided for the season as a whole.
We aren’t out of it yet!
March 17th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
That’s my opinion. Deal with it. At least I’ve been consistent with it. Back in December I was calling out his poor technique and the detrimental effect it as having on the team.
Or you can carry on deluding yourself that the world is conspiring against us and the fact that we have essentially blown the league is nothing to do with our players shortcomings.
March 17th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
I understand where Mazza’s coming from. He wishes we had a striker that was a bit more clinical; arguably a player with better technique than Adebayor.
It was a similar argument with Henry. While he’s without doubt an Arsenal legend and one of my favorite players, he was never going to win FIFA POTY. It’s difficult to vote him as the best player when he’s not even the best in his position. You had strikers like Raul, Crespo, Shevchenko, and even van Nistlerooy that were simply better finishers than Henry. While Henry was much more than just finishing, the primary job of the striker is to put the ball in the net when given a descent chance. Henry, while he scored lots of goals, missed even more.
The same seems to apply for Adebayor. He’s screwed up chances that good strikers would finish. Sure, they all miss some but Ade misses a lot more. Arsenal’s brand of football is designed to create chances by the boatload so the law of averages has him third in the league in scoring right now.
However, Adebayor, like Henry, does much more than just score. He stretches defenses and makes space between opponents defense and midfield. He gives us pace and power up front. He gives us an aerial threat. And he works, like Henry didn’t once he became captain. The work that Adebayor has done is part of the reason we’re not twenty points back like last season. Gotta respect that.
March 17th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
He will be a threat against Chelsea. He always is when the opposing defence is looking to push up and he’s looking to run in behind. His qualities work well against a Chelsea side that look to compress.
Of course Ade has been a reason for our success. But when you think he is taking up one of two vital positions in team then you expect him to contribute. Any decent player will make hay in this Arsenal side.
Darren Bent has scored around twenty premier league goals in his career, and so has Marcus Stewart of Ipswich. Maybe even James Beattie as well.
March 17th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
JD, I think we would all happily discuss the merits of a contrary viewpoint. Adebayor isn’t the finished article and his game has a lot of development yet to happen - no doubt. But when you lace your comments with nasty invective…..referring to a player as “complete crap, absolute shit and a complete oaf” and airbrush over the huge contribution he has made what do you really expect your fellow posters to think and respond to?
It’s communication 101. People can only react to what they read.
Anyway, I asked Mazza what the answer was #12….no response. What we need to ‘deal with’ is reality not childish musings of players who don’t play for us and even if they did would soon be targets of our own frustration.
The thing that really irks is that there are other players far more worthy recipients of criticism in this Arsenal squad than Adebayor - but Mazza has decided that today is Adebayor’s day for a slagging. The only thing that ultimately counts is what a player contributes - not what they could.
March 17th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
there is always a scapegoat after a poor result but to lay the blame at the feet of Ade is frankly ridiculous.he was provided with little to nothing against middlesbrough.his first touch is not as bad as made out…in fact it has improved immeasureably.
some of his touches v milan were henry-esque,(remember that flick to hleb as he cut inside…delicious).adebayor’s game has improved in all departments and shows signs of continuing.his hold up play rivals that of Drogba at times.his pace is second only to walcott’s.his tenacity and aggression strike fear into all defenders.the only technical deficiency he has is his striking of the ball.he always shoots with his in-step.have u noticed that his penalties always go to the right corner.he is limited in this department but an article i read recently(forget the source) compares his wayward shooting at monaco to his vastly improved technique today.see drogba as an example…in his first season he looked clumsy and cumbersome…today his technique is up there with the best…and he was discovered only at the age of 21
the only thing that concerns me re adebayor is his attitude.before the glut of goals his work-rate won the fans over.recently this hasnt been as evident.perhaps its tired legs after a long season where he has played almost every game.what i hope it is not is another case of henry-itis.the recent dive at man utd was a sign of things to come and i wouldnt have any problems offloading such an ego.i love ade’s personality but i just hope he keeps his head down and continues to work hard
March 17th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Well, yes, I thought I made it clear @11 that we would be in a very similar position to now with added bonus of better team performances, better ‘plan A’, and thus a stronger likelihood of finishing the season strong.
As for who to buy and where to accomodate Ade, I think that is far more unrealistic topic of discussion than my appraisal of Adebayor. Wenger has made his bed in by buying Adebayor two years ago, so he will have to lie in it. What do you expect him to do? Sell him and buy Torres? That’s not going to happen. I wish Wenger would display that flexibilty in this particular case but he is too stubborn for that. Wenger had the opportunity to buy a Berbatov a couple
of years ago but he went for athletic African rather than the svelte Bulgarian. That’s his call. Doesn’t mean I have to agree with it. Also doesn’t mean Wenger has to agree with me.
It’s fan talk Kiwi. I don’t actually anticipate anything is going to happen in regards to Berbatov or Torres. We shall not have to worry about juggling our striker force anytime soon methinks. This will probably be our strike roster for years to come. For better or for worse.
March 17th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
“Of course Ade has been a reason for our success. But when you think he is taking up one of two vital positions in team then you expect him to contribute. Any decent player will make hay in this Arsenal side.”
Even that doesn’t stand scrutiny.
The ‘other vital position’ has been taken up by any one of: Eduardo, Hleb, Walcott, Bendtner…..non of whom have come within cooeey of Adebayor’s contribution let alone made hay. They played in the same side as Adebayor so I guess we have to assume they aren’t decent?
What has Bent, Stewart and Beattie got to do with anything?
March 17th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
That’’s the question Jizzy K. How much can his touch and vision improve? Surely it may to some extent but I think there is a limit to how much this rough diamond can be polished. The deficiencies in his game are things that are hard to teach. You either have them or you don’t. It’s a natural talent. With his mental attitude though, Ade will sure give it a good go.
March 17th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
well the case of Drogba shows that he can improve to a level beyond our expectations.not to generalize but many africans in the modern game have not had proper coaching(the best coaching system in Africa was linked to Beveren and produced both toure and eboue-why aren’t we analyzing his technical deficiencies i dont know).drogba has become one of the best strikers in world football and is almost getting into his thirties.im sure adebayor can continue in this vein.what do we have to predict this?his improvement since he arrived beggars belief.
it does irk me that we havent bought a berba or a torres(imagine him and ade up front) but i think that an RVP-Ade combo can be among the best in the world.both are 23/24 and have yet to form an understanding.i really dont think this an area of concern….our wings trouble me more
March 17th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Since when did the word contribution become solely defined by goals scored?C’mon Kiwi your better than that. Everyone knows how important a player like Hleb has been. If I want to read the Carling Opta Index I’ll get a newspaper.
“What has Bent, Stewart and Beattie got to do with anything?”
Considering your penchant for judging a player largely by goals then it should interest you to know those players also scored lots of goals in one season and all three are unlikely to get an induction into the Hall of Fame anytime soon
March 17th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
jizzyk, “but i think that an RVP-Ade combo can be among the best in the world.both are 23/24 and have yet to form an understanding.i really dont think this an area of concern….our wings trouble me more”
well said, I wholly agree
Mazza, when did I refer to contribution as goals alone? I have watched Adebayor all season and his contribution is huge in goals and general play - that’s why I can’t see why you feel the need to criticise the guy. I can only agree with the comments of others who have responded including jizzyk who said that he has improved immeasurably and in any event he hasn’t been anywhere near as bad as you are alluding to.
As for goals/other contributions - whatever way you cut it Adebayor has outshone our other players who have played in 1 of the 2 striking roles. Ultimately as one of the ’strikers’ you need to either score a goal or cause one to be scored. If you don’t, by default, your expecting someone else to and sooner or later the pressure blows out.
If your comparing Adebayor to Bent, Stewart and Beattie then whatever. All it proves is that you don’t like Adebayor and anything you say about him is tainted with that position.
March 17th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
And I guess the EPL is a beauty competition, where playing beautifully wins you the competition and scoring goals doesn’t matter. Goals are an easily quantifiable measure of contribution, anything else is aesthetics
March 17th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
tevez-rooney have hardly set the league alight with goals.contributions come from everywhere in that team.it is a massive advantage to have,taking the pressure off the strikers to know that there are other sources of goals.a massive failure of this team has been the inability of this team to share the goals around and wenger must accept some of the blame.eboue hasn’t scored in over a year(i think?),and as we all know hleb is not clinical in front of goals.yes fabregas ships in but he already has the responsibility of being the midfield general.its our wings that our letting us down in this respect.liverpool’s struggles also stem from the prolifigacy of their wings.
if wenger doesnt improve in this department then we struggle to break down opposition for the next few years.we look predictable at home.our plan B is ineffective cos we dont have a decent crosser of the ball(bentley,pennant are two of the best crossers in the premiership).we all pine for Vela but he doesnt cross the ball too often from what i have seen and expecting him to impact immediately is crazy.wenger must find a remedy to this recurring theme at home.if i was playing arsenal i would park a bus and why not..it works.too much more of this shit will drive players like fabregas out to the open plains of la liga
March 17th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Eduardo has not played as many games as Adebayor and is adapting to a completely different league. Hleb is played all over the place and has played more or half of his games in midfield rather than supporting. striker While Walcott again has been played more on the right of midfield. Not really a fair comparison in any shape or form. As for general contribution, we obviously disagree on that score.
Groovehouse. Another pearl of wisdom. You always shed light on such contentious issues. There was me thinking that football was won on pass completion percentage. Darn!
.
March 17th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
You’re being way too harsh on Adebayor. He is only 23. It’s a bit foolish to question how much he can improve when he has already shown a massive improvement from last year alone. Besides vision is not something ordinarily found in young players, it usually comes with experience. Touch can be improved in training and Adebayor has improved since last year in that area - although there’s obviously room for further improvement still.
Perhaps you should take the psychological aspect into it - few people do. When you’re playing under pressure and feel the weight of expectancy on your shoulders from both the fans and the players it’s easy to lose concentration and get nervous on the ball, especially when you’re young.
We all want Arsenal to win at the moment and it’s frustrating when they don’t, but honestly, don’t expect miracles from people. For me the only player really letting us down on the pitch is Hleb.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Just for the record, I’m pretty sure he turned 24 a month or so ago. but I do agree that he is being criticized too much. Come on, he’s third in the EPL in scoring, what more can you ask?
March 17th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
It’s a non-topic ChicagoGooner.
Mazza doesn’t like Adebayor.
Doesn’t matter what we say he still won’t like him and will argue that Rosicky with splinters in his arse is more valuable than 23-goal Ade.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
I’m not an Adebayor apologist, infact a few months ago I was saying there’s someone out there willing to part with a large sum of money to get Adebayor and Wenger should take it. In principle I still believe that, I suspect this is like a freak season for Adebayor that may never repeat. However, I have to give the man his due. Adebayor has overachieved this season, which is more than I can say for underachieving super talents like Hleb. We can talk all we like about his touches, link up and blah, blah blah. Dude came through all season where it mattered most - scoring. Allen Iverson took the 76ers to the finals despite having a poor point scoring percentage (points scored/ attempts for the less NBA inclined), solely by high point numbers. I’m willing to cut him some slack
March 17th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
I don’t like Adebayor as a player. Yes that is true. I know it’s sacrilege to some round here being an Arsenal fan and not having your head shoved up the arse of every Arsenal player but if I don’t rate a player that’s my perogative. You don’t have to like it. It’s okay to disagree.
Danny, you have a point about pyschological pressures but why stop with Adebayor? Why not afford the same luxury to Senderos, or to the 24/25 year old Hleb of last year? It must be hard for him having the pressure to create- along with Cesc- nearly every attacking play and having the ignorant crowd groan when you try a risque pass when they’ve spend the rest of game groaning at perceived unambitious passes. I watched the second half against Boro again and Hleb was the only one playing ground passes into the area. The rest of the players were continuing with tedious passes to our zombie-like overlapping full backs.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
@16, how do you reckon Van Nisterooy, Raul and the others are better strikers than Henry. TH14 may not fit the typical striker mode or play as such, but he did what strikers are supposed to do - score, in fact he did three better, he scores, creates his own chances, as well as assists. He may have missed a lot of chances, but he sure did score a lot too. Being the goals leader multiple times is not a fluke and makes you an excellent striker in my book.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Adebayor is not my favorite player BUT he is one of the MAJOR reasons we are where we are on the table right now……….NOT hleb.
He has a lot to learn and he learns fast, I give him that. And he works very hard most of the time…but the thing I like about him is that he has the WINNING mentality….a very strong desire to win.
In STARK contrast Hleb has a losing mentality completely. He has massive potential to rival that of Kaka - but he only occassionally comes remotely close because he is too chicken livered. He NEVER takes responsibility for anything.
The striking position is NOT a problem. It is goals from midfield.
At our rivals, the strikers and midfielders SHARE the goal scoring work. At Arsenal Hleb will not even ATTEMPT to shoot. Is that Adebayor’s fault?
March 17th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
I agree that Hleb has a losers mentality. I read that after six months at Arsenal he went to Wenger and said he wanted to leave because he didn’t think he was good enough. Well, he is good enough - that’s obvious to everyone, but if he doesn’t have self belief then what’s the point? 99% of players who do not have self belief will not cut it long term at a major European club, it’s prerequisite at that level. You can see the confidence draining out of Hleb after a few bad passes. After all this time, the jury is still out on him because of his mental weakness. Any major European team with strength in depth would have dropped him by now, but Arsenal can’t. Maybe that’s why we won’t win anything.
March 17th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Well we saw the Arsenal without an in-form Hleb during the second half of Villa, the game versus Newcastle, and the following game versus Boro. And it wasn’t a pretty sight. Remember, we produced what many fans class as our best performance of the season in that first half against Villa. That was when Hleb was running the show and Fabregas had his feet up through injury. You don’t care for all this this ‘team dynamic’ talk and triangles, however in a finely tuned team like Arsenal it is very important and we collapse like a deck of cards without the base Hleb brings to the side. Arsenal without Hleb is trying to light a cigar without matches. Adebayor can’t smoke without him.
He is playing poor at the minute and we are playing terrible. Coincidence? I think not.
March 17th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
True Danny. Hleb is not perfect and for the second time in a two seasons he appears to be losing self-belief at the business end of things. That’s why I was imploring Wenger to sign back-up for Hleb and Rosicky in the summer. But again Wenger decided not do and now we are left praying that he can find himself again.
Hleb does have a very strong desire to win but when he gets tense he gets even more indirect and indecisive. He was very cranky on Saturday. He was getting pissed off with everyone. However he is like a guy with a stammer who whose stammer gets worse under pressure. Hleb becomes parody of himself in such conditions.
March 17th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
@36 Danny T
If that is true (Hleb went to AW…), then that is an interesting, informed perspective I have never heard, and it certainly causes me to look at him differently.
I understand now what mazza meant (I assume that is why) about calling Hleb a loser.
If true, my slating of mazza sometime ago was misplaced - I apologize - wish you had explained your opinion.
Interesting.
March 17th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
I like Hleb. Although I do so acknowledging the following:
- he is 95% guaranteed not to shoot and score,
- he will try high-risk passes and when his game is off they become even more likely to fail
- at this stage he isn’t a consistant match winner
I would have loved Pires on the left and Hleb on the right.
If we had a quality left (or right) wide player who could score and a partner for Adebayor who could score (RvP) - Hleb wouldn’t be under pressure and could do what he does best, be a gluey player that creates.
So for me Hleb has reached the ranks of a good member of our squad, it’s just his game he relies on others, without the outlets he looks bad.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
IMO only two out of the eleven 1st-teamers have failed to deliver this season. And they are Rosicky and RvP. RvP had a tasty cameo at the start followed by a looong injury. Rosicky has been in and out like a jack-in-the-box. And when he has been in his performance has been average, and he duplicates Hleb’s areas of weakness hence causing team imbalance.
The other nine have overall performed well (Ade, Hleb, Fab, Flam, Sagna, Clichy, Gallas, Toure, Almunia).
The backup? My criteria is what could we reasonably expect.
OK: Eduardo, Diaby, Denilson, Senderos
Disappointing: Walcott, Bendtner, Eboue, Bert
Too little to call: Song, Hoyte, Djourou, Lehmann
Diaby gets in ‘ok’ by a whisker.
When I look at things like this, I see the impact of the injuries to key attackers, and I see the ‘real callowness’ in our backup. The 1st team is ok (bar Rosicky - and I have confidence in RvP’s ability to prove himself) - it’s the backup that has been found wanting.
Still we have a little bit of time left for the players to improve their season ratings.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
If Ade had a consistent strike partner who scored like RvP/Eduardo, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Ade’s work rate and ability to stretch defenses coupled with Dudu/RvP’s good first touch and scoring accuracy. What more could you ask for?
If Hleb had a proper goal scoring partner on the other wing, we wouldn’t be having this conversation either. Just a few days ago, I saw exactly what Kiwi said in #40 - what we need is a Pires. If we had a goal scorer on the left wing, Hleb is free to do how much ever dribbling, passing, triangles, etc. he wants. But sicknote Rosicky hasn’t let that happen. As for the backup on the wings, that’s purely Wenger’s problem, one he will hopefully address in the summer.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Agree Nipuna.
I remember thinking when Pires was leaving that I wished Wenger would make him the exception (give him a 2 year contract) and keep him. Pires was rare. An unselfish beautifully creative player who could score. If he had stayed we could have used him as our go-to man much the way Wenger used Bergkamp in the later years of his career.
Got a problem…..let Pires fix it.
But we had a lot of clutter in versatile striking players and I think Pires seemed surplus - although not to me.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
I admit I was one who didn’t mind Pires leaving, primarily because there was Reyes. Maybe Wenger thought the same way. What we need is a Pires/Reyes/Babel kind of winger - one who can play on the left wing, score goals and add a bit of pace to the midfield.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Darn kiwi, you are making a lot of sense tonight. Have to agree with the majority of your points but thought I would throw out a few EPL only stats which may surprise a lot of us.
1. Our total of 58 goals scored is second only to Manu, albeit they have played one less game. We have scored 3 more than Liverpool and 9 more than Chelsea.
2. Although our goal differential is second only to Manu by 7 we have conceded more goals than Chelsea and Liverpool.
The point I am trying to make here is that while we do score a fair number of goals we tend to concede easy goals to the lower ranked teams and end up with draws or losing. Although not as bad as last year, a majority of these goals have come from set pieces or from headers by practically unmarked opposing forwards.
3. To back up your point, our midfield has scored a total 19 goals with Fab and Rosicky contributing 13 of those. Back in the day Lundjberg and Pires were slotting in 30 +. Flamini’s contribution of 3 is easily dwarfed by Viera who would regularly provide us with 6-9 per season.
4. Of the 32 goals scored by our forwards, Ade and RVP accounted for 24. Surprisingly, Eduardo’s contribution was only 4.
Taking into consideration that RVP and Rosicky has seemingly being injured nearly all season their contributions could have been much greater. Our mid field subs have only scored 1 goal, that being by Diaby. Eboue, Gilberto, Song, Diarra and Denilson have scored a total of ZERO.
To sum it up, we need to get some more height along the back line and defensive mid field, another goal scoring mid field threat and another tried and proven striker who can score goals when needed due to injuries or merely resting our starters.
Until the, we will continue to struggle in the EPL. It certainly seems at this time that we have a team better suited to compete in competitions like the CL, Carling and FA Cups.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
I think Wenger was happy for the whole 1st team squad to go Nipuna - quick smart. That’s why we saw a record clear-out. I just thought Pires was a rare jewel - a guy who could have provided answers albeit on a reducing basis as his legs gave out. Not just out wide but even in the 2nd striker role.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:18 am
All good points CaribKid.
I would suggest however that the Gallas/Toure and Fab/Flam combo’s will remain Wenger’s first choice. That kinda means that aerialy we’re going to be a little vulnerable. Not a lot that we can do except try and concentrate more at set pieces. That said, Gallas & Toure aren’t midgits and should in theory be able to improve (the Terry/Gallas combo worked ok - and Terry isn’t tall).
Whilst overall our goals scored total looks ok, we scored the most in the 1st 10 EPL games (26-21-20) - so as the season has progressed the goals have been harder to come by. Partly because Fab’s early form masked our inherrent weakness and partly due to the injury bite to attacking players.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:42 am
When Adebayor (touch wood) unfortunatly picks up an injury and out for a while someday, I m pretty sure the argument of his significance would rest - we would find out how important he really is to us.
Personally, I see us struggling big time without him. With our current playing style, everything goes through him attacking wise (holding up the ball, link up play, running the channel, to offer aerial threat in the box…). His GOALS are only secondary compare to his PRESENCE.
March 18th, 2008 at 5:55 am
The fact that we are discussing replacing Ade with Bendtner exposes the lack of options on our bench. The injuries to RVP, Eduardo and Rosicky have hit us hard.
March 18th, 2008 at 6:09 am
Hleb didn’t go to Wenger because he lacked self-belief. He went because he wasn’t a regular in the team. He didn’t believe he was in Wenger’s plans as Pires, Ljunberg, and Reyes were in front of him. He wondered why he wasn’t playing more. Wenger actually moved Bobby central to accomodate Hleb. That was easy as Ljunberg was always injured.
Kiwi, you must have forgot how Arsenal play football when Rosicky is in the team. That’s believable as it’s been a long while since we’ve seen that. Watch a game from earlier in the season when we’ve got all the three amigos playing together in midfield and tell me you don’t see a difference between how we played then and how we’ve played lately. In the first ten games, Rosicky and van Persie were fit and in the team.
Groovehouse, #34, I didn’t say that Raul and van Nistlerooy were better strikers than Henry, I said they were better finishers. If Henry were as clinical in front of goal as say Crespo or Raul were back then, then Henry, with his pace and in Arsenal’s team, would have scored like 60 goals in a single season. Sure, he has other qualities and I credited those, but I was talking about his finishing.
My intent was to point out how many chances this team creates. It’s the reason Adebayor has so many goals. He wasn’t putting them away like that at Monaco. In fact, neither was Henry. It’s the brand that Wenger has brought to Arsenal. It’s the same brand that led Real Madrid to believe Anelka was worth 23 million pounds. With inflation, that’s Shevchenko-to-Chelski-type money.
Hypothetically, if you take Henry and put him in a team like, let’s say Barcelona or Adebayor and put him in a team like, lets say Monaco, or even Anelka at Madrid, will they score as many goals as they did at Arsenal? They won’t have the same number of chances. Henry was more like a machine gun where Crespo was like a sniper. Crespo got his kills through percision where Henry and Adebayor got their kills through volume.
March 18th, 2008 at 6:18 am
Josh, Eduardo is our sniper, Ade is our machine gun and RvP is our AK-47. Together (when fit), we have all the Arsenal we need.
March 18th, 2008 at 6:26 am
JD, I well remember, but it is good to be reminded. Fab, Hleb and Rosicky have the ability to play football in tune in a really lovely way. I agree. And with Rosicky it’s hard to gauge his true worth because frequent injury robs him of playing continuity.
Sooner or later something has to give, either he finds greater robustness and plays or he slips out of his 1st-choice mantle and then probably gets sold.
If he starts playing regularly then he will be judged by his effectiveness, and particularly whether his combo with Hleb contribute the threat we need. If they don’t the outcome will probably be either him or Hleb leaving.
But knowing Wenger he is a patient manager with a long-term view and huge faith in his key purchases. So let’s hope Rosicky finds a nice regular stream of goals freeing up Hleb to create and link and this conversation becomes history!!
March 18th, 2008 at 6:47 am
@Joshuad 50
Don’t tell me what I did or didn’t read:
http://www.fansfc.com/frontpage/frontpagenews.asp?newsid=181377
The Belarusian international has become one of the key members of Arsene Wenger’s first team plans, yet the 26-year-old has revealed he almost quit the club shortly after his 2005 move from Stuttgart.
“The first year in England was hell, I felt lonely,” said Hleb. “I went to see Arsene Wenger and told him ‘Sorry, I am simply not good enough’. But he told me I was a good player and that’s why he bought me. It helped a lot.”
Hleb has started 22 games for Arsenal this season, scoring two goals.
March 18th, 2008 at 6:58 am
Sounds like Hleb was being honest. Some great achievers have mystifying levels of self-doubt. To last at this level you need to find high levels of determination - hopefully Hleb will.
March 18th, 2008 at 7:44 am
Predictable as rain, the way everyone’s casting about for a scapegoat…..Adebayor! No, wait, it’s Hleb! Ever notice how he’s NEVER been any good?! Hey, wow, you’re RIGHT! You’re a GENIUS, why aren’t you managing the team?
March 18th, 2008 at 8:18 am
Ade…. his form dropped must have something to do with his new haircut.
March 18th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Remember somebody saying that when Sagna dropped his hair beads and looked like a good boy. Fortunately, he could put it back immediately. Never seen him without it since.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:32 am
My bad, boys. I didn’t mean to write that Hleb lacked self-belief but rather to write about his so-called loser mentality. That goes to show that no one is perfect. Even I made a mistake but that’s it for me. I’m done making mistakes until next year :-).
The way I remember it, Hleb came to Arsenal and was in the team with Pires on the bench until he picked up an injury that kept him out for a long time. When Hleb got fit again, Pires kept his place in the team. Hleb had to wonder if he had lost the confidence of the boss as he couldn’t get his place back. After all, we were like eighth in the league and there was all the media “end of an era / transition crisis” blah blah blah. Of course not getting his place back is going to mess with his head but it doesn’t make him a loser.
DannyT, I’m never going to try to tell you “what you read” as that’s ridiculous. You reactions tend to be a bit over the top. I don’t like the drama queen DannyT. Where did that tough guy go?
March 18th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
@50, I agree Henry was probably an average finisher, but he was never that type of striker. Henry plays more like a supporting attacker to the main striker (although, Arsenal never really had one), a combo that comes to mind is that of Bebeto and Romario at the 94 world cup.
However, I disagree with the assertion that Henry relies on chances from others to score and will not replicate his goal scoring form in a different environment. I might remind you that Henry at Monaco was 18 yrs old and still managed to score 20+ goals. Henry scored many of his goals by creating his own chances and did not rely on others, so he’s likely to succeed in any enviroment, his current experience in Barca notwistanding.
Also, Anelka has been and still is a prolific goal scorer for many teams. His failure at Madrid could be attributable to being young and stupid, and an inflated ego. Also, its a myth that Arsenal players are system players (which appears to be partly the premise of your last two paragraphs) who are average performers but are made to look great because of the system in which they play. Sylvinho, even Cygan, has proved there’s life after Arsenal