(Thanks to Sachin for emailing this to me yesterday. Sorry not to get to an internet connection until this morning!)
Time for game 2 of the Arsenal and Liverpool series. Even though it may look tiring to play the same opponent in quick succession, each game presents a different flavour and in turn a unique challenge. The first game was meant for Arsenal to gain a good advantage, maybe a 1-0 or even a two goal lead while Liverpool’s intentions were to sit back and limit Arsenal to just one goal, or get an away goal themselves. The second game means more to Arsenal than Liverpool as Arsenal need 3 precious points, while a single point might do for Liverpool; the game itself should present some of the Liverpool subs with a chance to make their mark. It is only in the third game that one would see Liverpool try to attack and get a goal in front of their home crowd. Prior to the three games, Liverpool would have been happy with two goal-less draws in the first two games, with a 1-0 win in the third. In Arsenal’s case, it was always about winning the three games and scoring goals. So Arsenal’s task was always going to be harder, while Liverpool would be content to sit back for 2 of the three games.
History and all that:
In the 200 games that the two teams have played against each other, Liverpool hold a slight edge with 80 wins compared to Arsenal’s 70 with 50 games being tied. The 10 game winning margin presents itself in the 167 league meetings between as Liverpool have 68 wins compared to Arsenal’s 58. The first time these teams played each other was in the old second Division when Liverpool thumped Arsenal 5-0 back on Oct 1893. In fact, Liverpool won the first 4 meetings with Arsenal, outscoring the Gunners 12-0. It was only in 1905 when both teams were in Division 1 did Arsenal manage a 3-1 victory over Liverpool.
Historically, there have been cases where both these teams played each other more than 3 times in a season. In the 1979/80 season, the two played each other 7 times, with 4 of those games being an F.A Cup tie in the days of playing replays until a winner was found. In the 1981/82 season, the two met 4 times, while a 5 game meeting took place in that eventful 1988/89 season when Arsenal won that memorable away game to Anfield 2-0 to take the title. Arsenal played Livepool 4 times in the 1989/90 season, with another 4 games taking place last season thanks to the two Cup games in quick succession when Arsenal went to Anfield and came away with 6-3 (League Cup) and 3-1 wins (F.A Cup).
Given the number of games between Arsenal and Liverpool, there have been plenty of memorable moments from matches. Anfield 1989 stands out because that title provided the foundation for the current era of Arsenal success. The 4-2 Highbury win provided a calm path towards the unbeaten title in 2004. The F.A Cup loss in 2001 also stands out because of the manner in which Arsenal lost — Arsenal dominated the game, created plenty of chances yet only took a 1-0 lead, before two late goals sunk them. Arsenal would find that pattern of dominating possession, creating plenty of chances, yet not winning repeated again and again over the last 7 years.
Create at one end, prevent at the other:
In a match if a team creates atleast 7-10 goal scoring chances, then it would be a good result if they scored 2 or 3 goals. Also, it is important on how many chances the team limits the opposition to. If the opponent is limited to a few chances and either only one goal is conceded or the team keeps a clean sheet, then victory is assured. In order to win, a good balance is required between the attack and defense. However, wins can still be achieved if one part is much more stronger than the other. George Graham’s Arsenal teams had a rock solid defense and had a good chance to keep a clean sheet, so the attack could get away with only one goal (Alan Smith’s lone strike in the 1994 Cup Winner’s Cup final is a perfect example). When Wenger took over, he inherited that solid defense. So that allowed Wenger to build on that and modify the team’s attack. The goals flowed in and the defense held firm. When GG’s defense started aging away and disappearing, at first it was not a problem as Arsenal kept creating plenty of changes and scoring enough goals to get by. Only when the chances were limited and the goals dried up, the limitations of the poor defense came into focus.
Given that plenty of Wenger teams have fallen prey to similar defensive mistakes like being caught out by long balls, poor at defending set-pieces, it does not seem likely that over-night the Arsenal team would start having a rock solid defense. If the mistakes have not been fixed over a span over 4-5 years, they certainly won’t start correcting themselves in a matter of weeks. So that leaves more pressure to ensure that the attack can carry a large burden on their shoulders. But in order to score goals, chances have to be created. If in a game a team only creates 5 chances, then the pressure is on the team to take full advantage. Out of those 5 changes, if one chance is incorrectly called back for off-side, or a valid penalty not given, then the pressure on the team increases as they have to extra sharp in front of goal as the next chance might not come for a long while.
Advantage creator vs Advantage destructor:
As history and every day life show, it is easy to destruct rather than create. Likewise, it is easier to break up a team’s creative play than it is for a team to creatively split open an opponent’s defense. Liverpool have flaunted their destructive mentality in the Champions league for the last 3 years and Wednesday’s game was no exception. So on Sat, once again the pressure will be on Arsenal again to take advantage of Liverpool’s sit-back & watch approach. Arsenal need an early goal on Sat to break Liverpool’s shell mentality. But before a goal is scored, a chance has to be created.
April 5th, 2008 at 4:44 am
I think Arsenal will win this game. I think Benitez contrary to what most people think will play a reasonably strong team. He will not throw this game simply because he is going to play Arsenal again in 3 days. If he was playing Barcelona in 3 days; there’d be a very good chance of him throwing it(not actually..but like our FA Cup) and winning against Barcelona. Since it is Arsenal again though..Benitez will not want us to win and will do whatever is possible to stop us from winning. IMO.
I’m not sure who is going to start. The back 4 will be the same for sure. I’m also almost certain Theo will get a start up front with Adebayor and that Hleb and Eboue will also start primarily because we need to win desperately to keep whatever title hopes are there alive. See here’s the squad and how much we have where:
1 Jens Lehmann —- Bench
24 Manuel Almunia —- GK
21 Lukasz Fabianski — NP
3 Bacary Sagna — Injured
27 Emmanuel Eboue — RW
31 Justin Hoyte – Bench
10 William Gallas – CB
20 Johan Djourou – Injured
5 Kolo Toure – RB
6 Philippe Senderos – CB
22 Gael Clichy – LB
30 Armand Traore – NP
13 Aleksandr Hleb – LW
4 Cesc Fabregas – CM
2 Abou Diaby – Suspended
19 Gilberto Silva – Bench
16 Mathieu Flamini – CM
17 Alexandre Song – Bench
15 Pereira Neves Denilson – Injured
7 Tomas Rosicky – Injured
25 Emmanuel Adebayor – CF
32 Theo Walcott – CF
26 Nicklas Bendtner — Bench
11 Robin van Persie — Injured
9 Eduardo Da Silva — Injured
—– There is zero cover on the LW and RW. If Theo plays RW then there’s no attacking option to bring off the bench if we go a goal down and that quite frankly is a disaster. If we dont win today it will certainly end our faint remaining title hopes.
There’s little point discussing tactics..I’m not sure what Rafa will do today but I think SG will start and play off Voronin instead of Torres. Lucas will probably come in for Mascherano and Benayoun for Babel..that apart I don’t see too much change happening.
Almunia
Clichy Senderos Gallas Toure
Eboue Cesc Flamini Hleb
Adebayor Theo
—
Reina
Arbeloa Hyppia Skrtel Riise(Aurelio)
Kuyt(Pennant) Lucas(Torres) Alonso Benayoun
Gerrard Voronin
I think Theo will score today and we will win this 2-0
April 5th, 2008 at 6:05 am
Yes, we will beat Liverpool tonight as 2 Vs 0 >>>>>>
But I think….
1st Goal >>> F4
2nd Goal >>> W32
April 5th, 2008 at 6:32 am
I am pretty sure Rafa will rest players. This is our best chance to beat them. Out first 11 has to do the job. No options on the bench except Bendtner.
April 5th, 2008 at 6:37 am
Nip: I msgd u…did u get it?? Lemme kno…
April 5th, 2008 at 7:48 am
oh nooo! Is that Traore and Hoyte to start?! God help us. I hope Wenger knows what he is doing
April 5th, 2008 at 7:49 am
Is Ade being rested or “rested”?
April 5th, 2008 at 7:51 am
gilberto as well!
April 5th, 2008 at 8:07 am
this is looking quite bad. cant even get the ball fwd
April 5th, 2008 at 8:13 am
just waiting for Liverpool to score, shouldn’t be long
April 5th, 2008 at 8:16 am
Yaiks. Very surprised at the line up. What on earth is Wenger thinking?
April 5th, 2008 at 8:17 am
@9 agreed. liverpool looking way better, even with 8 changes from the CL game. arsenal back is not composed and cant figure out what to do
April 5th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Has Wenger given up on our title challenge?
April 5th, 2008 at 8:24 am
probably been smoking BC’s best, but in all honesty…who knows whats going on in his head
April 5th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Should have a goal to our part already.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:31 am
eboue is oh so frustrating…and here we go. long ball to crouch and back of the net.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:31 am
we are down again
April 5th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Take Hleb out of the side and you are watching Arsenal of 1993/4 under George Graham.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:37 am
That’s what you get when you don’t sign players that are good enough
April 5th, 2008 at 8:38 am
wenger is an idiot for playing this lineup. an idiot!
if he knew he was going to play this lineup why was he talking shit about us still being in the title race yesterday??
liverpool dont give a fuck about this game, so why dont we just win it.
gilberto in our team is a big CANCER.
eboue is an IMBECILE of the highest order….two chances were fucked up by him just before they scored. he has no defensive ability worth noting either.
bendtner is being frustrated and fucked up ALONE upfront. he has no mobility so why not put walcott beside him???
and finally why on gods green earth are we playing 4-5-1 at home against a weak team that does not even care about this match???
wenger is the dummy of the day.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:38 am
Hope we are not going to rue dt Bendtner chance at the end of this match
April 5th, 2008 at 8:41 am
mazza, it doesnt really have much to do with hleb…..hleb has been whack for weeks.
we play 4-4-2, no gilberto, our first choice fullbacks and no eboue and we will look competent at least.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:41 am
don’t be silly Fred.
if u wanna play 442, first - who’s gonna play on the left? due to the need to rest Hleb.
Theo? If Theo play on the left, who’s gonna play up front with Bendtner? due to the need to rest Ade.
u see what i mean? there’s no other option.
the formation has no problem about it. The difference is Bendtner’s inability to hold the ball up.
with 451, u need the main striker to hold the ball and get the midfield involved. if u can’t, u cannot possibly organize any soft of attack.
unless, that main striker is quick. yet Bendtner is not that quick neither.
that’s why Adebayor is so important to our system.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Considering the squad is so thin, why not start Lehmann? He might give some leadership back there, which won’t be a bad thing. Ofcourse, doesn’t help when you have players (Eboue) who have no concept on when to play a ball and won’t probably ever learn. Also, when you have strikers who are not confident and can’t do a basic thing. If Crouch was given the chance that Bendtner missed, he would have scored. Does Crouch start every week, no? Yet he can take his chances.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Flamini and Fabergas is LOST in the middle of the park with the STATIONARY Gilberto stuck in between, it’s like there’s a “no go zone” between the two.
Liverpool made 8 changes, and still lead. Shows that Rafa is tactically better than Wenger.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:48 am
walcott looks like he wants to take on players at least…………partner the guy with bendtner at least.
bendtner just looks LOST out there.
gilberto is just taking like 50% of our already weak attack and throwing it out - just by his mere presence.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:48 am
I share everyone’s frustrations and I think this game is the ultimate demonstration of how thin our roster is versus those of the other big teams in the Premiership. I believe the only possible explanation (note that I am not saying, justification) for the lineup in the first half is that Wenger was hoping to play out the game for as long as possible so as to limit the time he uses Adebayor and Hleb. By scoring the goal, Liverpool forced his hand. I would note that I believe Benitez was also engaging in this strategy because he has Torres and Gerrard on his bench. Wenger lost the bet. Another interesting thing to note is that Clichy is on bench and not Senderos which suggests to me that Wenger believed Traore was likely to screw up more than Hoyte. But Hoyte is hopeless and cannot be trusted on the ball whereas Traore at least can put pressure offensively on the other team at times.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:48 am
Calm down, what did you expect? You know there is no squad depth and Wenger can’t play a full team for all 3 games - so why are you surprised at this? You also know that Wenger talks complete shit in press conferences - knows the title is gone.
The only question is tactics, and we know he is a baboon Wenger is when it comes to that. Playing Bendtner alone up top with the midfield 50 yards behind him - great idea. The defence is playing deep against one man, Crouch. They should be pushed up to the half way line. This is schoolboy tactics, and he’s got it wrong.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:51 am
God knows what he will say at the press conference after this we loose this game.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:51 am
even the world’s best tactic u need players to actually go out there and EXECUTE it.
do u really think AW told his midfield to stay 50 yards away from bendtner?
April 5th, 2008 at 8:51 am
Will Ade and Hleb come on at the start of the second half or on the 65th min mark?
April 5th, 2008 at 8:52 am
He’s probably playing 4-5-1 because of the defensive weakness Wenger knows we will have playing Hoyte and Traore. The problem has partly been Bendtner has not being able to get hold of the ball to allow the midfield i.e Walcott to join him , and most importantly he has been dominated in the air by the ‘pool defence. He has not been able to win one flick on at the end of the half which Flamini almost latched on to.
Anyway here comes the 2nd half
April 5th, 2008 at 8:52 am
No changes at the start of the second half.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:53 am
andez,
song can play in the LM position and then traore can be free to move up forward more often.
then walcott can move up front and partner bendtner……now bendtner is looking so frustrated……and it is preventable. we ALL know bendtner is not mobile.
yes, our roster is thin but this is a simple and profound tactical balls up from wenger.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:55 am
no changes from wenger………GENIUS!
April 5th, 2008 at 8:59 am
“do u really think AW told his midfield to stay 50 yards away from bendtner?”
He probably said nothing. Why is the defence playing so deep? It’s absurd. If they pushed up the midfield would naturally get closer to Bendtner. Arsenal have recovery pace if Crouch gets in behind. This is so simple - tactics for dummies. You tell the players how to play and they do it - if they don’t do it then you look at the manager either way and ask why?!
April 5th, 2008 at 8:59 am
and now Wenger is an idiot.
3 matches in 7 days, and he’s not supposed to rest key players?
Yes.
Lets play everyone the full 90 minutes every single match.
Its apparent from the beginning that he is going for the CL, as its a better chance to win than the league at this point.
But yes. Wenger’s an idiot and a dummy.
Brilliant stuff.
Its his fault the players are playing poor as well.
Its about EFFORT. I expect a better effort in the 2nd half… he’ll bring players on.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:59 am
and now Wenger is an idiot.
3 matches in 7 days, and he’s not supposed to rest key players?
Yes.
Lets play everyone the full 90 minutes every single match.
Its apparent from the beginning that he is going for the CL, as its a better chance to win than the league at this point.
But yes. Wenger’s an idiot and a dummy.
Brilliant stuff.
Its his fault the players are playing poor as well.
Its about EFFORT. I expect a better effort in the 2nd half… he’ll bring players on.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Wow, Toure left unmarked from a corner. The camera didn’t show Rafa but he must have been taking frantic notes there. Unless that is part of his tactics.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Nicky!!!!
April 5th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Nicky Bendtner! Good for you kid, now get another one.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:02 am
Pleased for Bendtner, the players obviously hate him. They’re supposed to be going for the title and only Walcott congratulated him - definitely something amiss there.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:02 am
so happy for bendtner, think he’s been getting a bit of stick. he might have his limitations but he’s good at what he does!
April 5th, 2008 at 9:02 am
Good. at least our lone striker up front will now have a bit more confidence.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:02 am
We need to press on fwd. We need to take this!!
April 5th, 2008 at 9:03 am
all arsenal so far this half…come on!
April 5th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Amazing. Just like Toure was left unmarked, no one picked Bendtner up. And he took his chance.
Now Liverpool might go into that shell more and Arsenal have to poke and prod.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Wenger is not a dummy for resting players, he had to - but he is a tactical dummy.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Here comes Ade.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:08 am
we can only score from freekicks, penalties and corners these days.
sad that no one ever celebrates with bendtner when he scores…jeez. only walcott ever bothers.
anyhoo, bring on ade and remove gilberto
April 5th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Oh geez. Another studs-up tackle attempt. At least this time the player is ambulatory.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Clichy needs to come in to provide the crosses. Traore is not good enough.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:16 am
No Danny, he’s not a tactical dummy.
He knows exactly the tactics he wants, and wants the players to employ, but you don’t always like the tactics. So you disagree with the tactics. It doesn’t mean Wenger’s poor tactically.
I don’t agree with some of his moves and policies with players… but he is what he is… and he’s successful.
Wenger is not dumb in any sense. Stubborn at times, I bet…
April 5th, 2008 at 9:18 am
You’re talking shit. He’s changed the tactics. Arsenal HAVE pushed up 20 yards. Now Bendtner has support and players all around him, it’s changed everything completely. It’s only because you understand nothing about football that you haven’t even noticed.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:18 am
@ stag: am blasting his formation/tactics not his resting of players.
learn to read …if not shut up.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Thankfully Skrtel didn’t catch Ade in the corner flag there.Can’t afford to get Ade injured.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:24 am
We need Hleb now….15 minutes should not annoy us.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:24 am
yeah hleb wud add something nw
April 5th, 2008 at 9:29 am
Gallas and his lenses. Next time he should know to have them ready on the sidelines.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:34 am
why remove flamini - who is a greater scoring option instead of gilberto?
wow!
April 5th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Whole first half wasted by Wenger’s bad tactics.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:40 am
I really thought Hleb was going to win it for us towards the end. sigh.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Oh well
April 5th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Hleb, once again decided to “touch” instead of shoot.
At least now we can focus on the CL.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:42 am
I disagreed with the commentators…if we “blew it” it was at Birmingham, not against Liverpool with a weak lineup
April 5th, 2008 at 9:44 am
League is out of the question now, but regardless of how optimistic one can be, it looks quite impossible that we will get anything at anfield. out of 2 comps in a week i reckon.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:44 am
I also believed Hleb was going to get the winner there. Sigh.
Man Utd must be celebrating now.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:45 am
typical fucking hleb - your bread and butter, control the ball with one touch, you have DONE it ALL YOUR FUCKING LIFE. then shoot. even if you miss at least u tested the keeper. typical from hleb.
with this same names of the team sheet we could have won…..tacticall NONSENSE from wenger in the first half meant we blew it.
and no, bendtner scoring from a freekick has NOTHING to do with improved tactics after the break.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Cesc looked tired.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:45 am
If the fat lady is not singing yet at least I know for sure she’s warming up. Its not over till its over but we are almost done with the title. Just hope the guys will see this draw and try to stick it to lillypool at anfield. Keep hope alive. Gooner for life
April 5th, 2008 at 9:46 am
funny thing is when we briefly swifted Bendtner towards left wing after Ade came on, Bendtner seemed to look quite comfortable playing there.
i think this kid is far better playing facing the goal, rather than with his back towards the goal as a targetman. he needs to build up his upperbody strength big time if he wants to make it as a target man. even so, the nature of his game seems like a van Persie type, dropping deep, taking on defenders.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:48 am
“and no, bendtner scoring from a freekick has NOTHING to do with improved tactics after the break.”
Based on ur theory Fred, remember HOW Liverpool scored their goal? Route one straight from goal kick, was it TACTIALLY BRILLIANT?
April 5th, 2008 at 9:48 am
No one said that Bendtner scoring WAS down to Wenger’s tactics.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:50 am
u guys can blame on AW’s TACTIC as much as u like, just please answer me ONE question -
IF we were going to play 442 on the first half (assumed to start Bendtner + Theo), with the need to rest Hleb and Ade, WHO would u play on the LEFT?
April 5th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Hleb’s poor first touch, shocking! Man that was it! the winner… Even Ade, as often as he is criticised would have taken that chance. Maybe there is something in that loser mentality someone or other was suggesting he had.
Discuss, LOL!
April 5th, 2008 at 9:57 am
For god sake Andez, I thought you out of all people had more brains than this.
The problem was playing 4-5-1 and leaving a massive gap between the midfield and Bendtner. You have to support the lone player up front, players need to run beyond him and around him. You can’t do that if the back four is standing on the edge of their own box for 45 minutes with the midfield just in front and Bendtner closing down at the other end of the pitch.
You move the defence up 20 yards, this pushes the midfield up 20 yards and suddenly Bendtner has support all around him. Gallas and Toure have the pace to deal with Crouch, they don’t need to be perched on the edge of their box.
It’s nothing to do with the choice of formation, rather how you employ it - making it effective. Wenger failed horribly in the first half.
Bendtner’s goal was just a good header from a set piece, nothing to do with formation and tactics - it’s a complete no brainer that your target men attacking set pieces with headers.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:59 am
andez, i dont give a crap about liverpools tactics or otherwise.
who would have played LM, how about Song???….yes he wont run forward that much, but at least he would COVER for traore who could go forward more freely. walcott could then join bendtner and we will have had far more chances.
wenger BLEW it with the tactics. we would have 3 points if he didnt PISS AWAY 2/3 or the match with a ridiculous and pointless tactic.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Wenger never should have sold Diarra
April 5th, 2008 at 10:01 am
time to concede boys, simple as that. wenger said we needed 5 wins and a draw in the final 6 games, i thought we needed all 6 wins (most of them by wide margins) to even have a chance, and we simply don’t have the strenght in numbers required to finish off the season. yes, it could be bad luck with the injuries to eduardo and rosicky, they would have been key during the home stretch, but the main problem we have is our complete inability to keep clean sheets. to win the championship a team must be able to win the ugly-tough-lucky 1-0 games, or at least be able to score late on counter attacks after the opponent has to come at you. we are always playing catch up, that is not good enough for the whole season. today was just another example.
here’s hoping to pull a liverpool and salvage our season by winning the CL! if we get past them on tuesday and focus only on the CL, it is still possible to do it. keeping the faith until that fat lady sings!
April 5th, 2008 at 10:02 am
what does diarra have to do with this match??? we needed goals and u are talking about diarra?
April 5th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Different team, same old problem. Okay, the first half was dreadful- as to be expected with such a team- but the pattern of the game was exactly the same as nearly every game at the Emirates all season. I remind everyone, how many times have we scored opening goals from open play in the first half this season? About two, three? Sitting back too deep and being passive has been our problem all season, and these run of results were completley predictable to anyone who can view games objectively.
Today’s game was not the problem, it was merely another illustration of seeds planted by Wenger last summer. Or rather, the lack of seeds. And what amazes me is that he looks so shocked on the bench. Where has he been for the last two years? These performances are so utterly predictable and yet he acts like it’s a recent development.
April 5th, 2008 at 10:02 am
We wouldn’t necessarily have won Fred, but would certainly have helped.
He should be shouting at himself not the players from the touchline that he badly instructed. They did what they told him to in the second half and did what they told him to in the first half - except what he told them in the first half was a load of old crap.
April 5th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Well, Diarra would have improved the team without a doubt, not sure he’s a match winner though. The question isn’t why did he sell him, but why did he buy him and play Gilberto instead?
April 5th, 2008 at 10:08 am
danny, Arsenal DID try to push their defence up the half way line. I don’t think u need a professional manager to understand that.
the thing is - our players couldn’t execute it. WHY? Because Bendtner couldn’t keep hold of the ball. and u know he’s not a runner. so there’s no OUTLET for the passes. if our forwards can’t keep hold of the ball, our midfield would spend more time chasing the ball in order to get back the possession.
and when they eventually did, they try to push up. again, no outlet for the passes.
another thing is - Liverpool adopted a different game plan from last game. the CL tie, they contain and sit back. This game, they close us down in midfield.
with no outlet passing to attacking wise, while at the same time opposition hurrying us, our defence simply being PUSHED BACK.
NO ONE in the right mind would order their midfield and defence sitting 50 yards away from the lone striker.
Even if you believe AW is tactially NAIVE. He can’t be THAT NAIVE.
April 5th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Don’t blame it on the players - they do what they’re told. They executed the change in the second half without any problem, so why not the first? I’ll tell you why, because Wenger messed it up.
Yes, Wenger IS that naive, I have always said that when it comes to tactics he’s miles behind other managers and have rarely seen anything to change my mind - today certainly didn’t help.
The fuck up was glaringly obvious, it’s just a pity that 45 minutes had to go down the toilet. Had the team been instructed to push up in the first half Crouch would never have got that goal.
Wenger has other amazing qualities, but not the full package - but then who does?
April 5th, 2008 at 10:16 am
@ arthur: make no mistake, today is wenger’s blunder, but for sure, hleb is a bottler supreme. he can control that ball in his sleep but immediately he sees the keeper and realizes he might actually score, his heart melts away. and he wasnt even tired! the coward!
wenger put out a weak team, OK, but then he hamstrings them with poor formation and poor tactics which he didnt correct till second half. then to cap it all, your most talented player is a grand choker! jeez!
all i want now is for us to get to the CL semis…even if we get pounded there, let us just get there…….please lord!
April 5th, 2008 at 10:21 am
The only promising aspect is Liverpool’s bad defending at set pieces. You feel Arsenal will never score from open play, but at set pieces we can nick something against them. As for Fabregas, I really can’t seem him lasting more than 30 minutes on Tuesday, the lad is dead on his feet. He’s going to get a bad injury if Wenger keeps flogging him to death like this.
April 5th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Liverpool pushed up because they knew our midfield was a complete non-threat. They wouldn’t try that crap with Rosicky and Hleb.
Bendtner wasn’t great but the midfield was too static and complacent and passive and he didn’t have Hleb to cut in and play with him.Their were no link players. Fabregas was spent and forced to defend deep. In the second half, when the team woke up, we saw what Bendtner can do. He has one of the best football brains in our team.
Tactics? I’m not sure. The problem is that Wenger thinks that his sides can play pretty football regardless of personnel. If Hleb is not there, if Rosicky is not there, we can’t. This is why I’ve said all along we needed another version of those last summer. So, in a way, his tactical inflexibilty is a problem.
But the biggest problem in this team is attitude. They are stuck in first gear for too long.
April 5th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Liverpool was always going to come to the Emirates with a neutralizing tactic. Every liverpool player chased down balls all over the pitch and didn’t give Arsenal enough time.
On the other hand, we were quite happy to let Liverpool build up from the back - insane. This has nothing to do with tactics but with the players. Wenger was shouting and I could only assume he was not happy at his players giving liverpool time on the ball, and then when had the ball we booted it. I think one camera shot of Toure booting the ball forward then opened his arms and shrugged his shoulders saids it all - the midfield was AWOL today giving our back 4 little options to pass.
Wenger must give a very clear message for every player till the end of the season - when in position, SHOOT first, ask questions later!
April 5th, 2008 at 10:29 am
@Mazza
“Tactics? I’m not sure. The problem is that Wenger thinks that his sides can play pretty football regardless of personnel. If Hleb is not there, if Rosicky is not there, we can’t”
Spot on. I’ve mentioned this here and there over many different posts. The “Arsenal problem” is often the style we play football and our stubbornness in continuing to play that way regardless of the player’s fitness, sharpness, and which opposition we play.
I might add to that even if our first XI are playing it will depend if they’re all fit and sharp. To make so many intricate passes, some quite difficult to execute, is a low percentage attacking style that is frustrating to watch when we don’t convert chances.
I think most neutral either call our football “beautiful” or “excessively overplayed”. Add injuries and low morale/confidence in our remaining fit players, and you have the current Arsenal squad.
April 5th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Well we do certainly have some authorities on tactics here
Even if we were to assume that Wenger messed up in the first half..Tactics is not a one way game…what makes you assume that Liverpool and Benitez would not have come up with some way in the second half to neutralize Arsene’s tactics?.
Then probably all of you would have come up with a criticism of Wenger’s second half tactics?. I know there are some times when you need to be critical of a manager but going to such extremes calling a manager of Wenger’s experience naive is really testing the limits.
I’m just happy that the title chase is over now..and we can give the second sting players a run in for the rest of the league games….shoudl hold us in good stead for the next season. CL is all we are playing in for now and i have a feeling that we’ll win it this year. Especially if Man Utd and Chelsea are distracted in their quest for the title
Cheers,
Wayne
April 5th, 2008 at 10:37 am
@ 87: please just shush about hleb and rosicky. yeah wenger is upto it tactically and yes our team has issues….
but stop mentioning hleb or rosicky in this…..
our game picked up considerably without hleb and in the 15 minutes hleb played he did NOT once charge towards the box. NOT once. and he wasnt tired!
note am not even talking about shooting or making assists anymore - am just talking about charging.
so enough with that “oh, because hleb didnt play” crap. there is a reason why the only “major” title he has ever won is belarrusian player of the year.
April 5th, 2008 at 10:38 am
i want a good discussion. Fred, u talk about AW’s tactical blunder, yet when I ask for a SUGGESTION who should play on the left, you suggested Song?
Imagine AW really did that?
@Danny, i can’t believe u actually believed AW ordered his men to keep a distance away from the lone striker? How on earth a manager like that could end up managing Arsenal?
I agree with neova, how about the PLAYERS?
there’s something call momentum with this game. Liverpool started well, credit to them, and PUSHED our defending line backward with their closing down.
but since the 30th minute mark, we basically played the SAME TACTIC, yet we gradually got hold of the game. and till the final whistle we were very much in control.
even when we brought on Adebayor, we were still playing 451 with Bendtner shifted left. And we were kept pushing Liverpool BACK TO THEIR OWN PENALTY BOX. Just like what they DID TO US ON THE FIRST HALF. only until Hleb came on towards the end we shifted to 442.
So all the TACTIALLY talks were pointless. There’s a FLOW with this game man.
and bare in mind the lineup we were FORCED (due to not many other options) to play in the first half, there were so many changes, u can’t expect them to come out and just flying off the block. They need some time to settle down.
What about those “factors”???
No, Wenger fuck up with his tactic.
Damn, i don’t know football is that simple.
April 5th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Fred I cannot definitively discern whether the tactic was the major issue or the players not being able to execute what could well have been a viable tactic. When a defensive unit and midfield end up excessively far apart it is unlikely that it is the tactic of a manager but rather a subconscious decision by the team. The point I’m making is the tactic was not ridiculous, just the players did not perform within it. The changes made were clearly beneficial whether the results were due to amended tactics or the positive change in chemistry that the players introduced produced. It could have been a bit of both, who really knows.
I just think it is a bit simplistic to blame the 1st have performance on Wengers poor choice of tactic alone. You remeber we did look in control and threatening for about 10/15 mins prior to the Liverpool goal using the intial 4-5-1. But I must say it made sense if Wenger was going to play Hoyte and Traore that we needed a bit extra defensively hence the 4-5-1.
Ideally I would like a 4-4-2 on most occasions but with Wenger seeing the need to rest Ade we don’t really have anyone else to play alongside Bendtner and leave us with decent options on the bench if we need them i.e Walcott.
Hleb should have given us what I think mainly from the second half performance a deserved win. Liverpool dominated the first 30 mins or so, but scored against the run of play in the end. However they looked worringly dangerous on the break in the later stages of the 2nd half when Gerrard came on, Rafa used this game as an opportunity to study us for the next game, it will be interesting to see how ‘pool approach that one.
April 5th, 2008 at 10:39 am
I only had to look at the line-up to know we weren’t going to win, or score a goal in open play. What a heart-sinker.
20m in I see Gilberto gift a lazy header straight to the opposition 10 yards in front of his own box and hurled from remote at the wall.
For Crouch’s goal - the Arsenal players all look in slow motion trying to catch up with the ball. Gilberto again! What committed challenges.
I agree with everyone who says this was another classic tactical Wenger blunder. Taking the handbrake off is such a blind spot for him. Even when he’s urging his team to play without fear, he’s putting out this team and this formation. 4-5-1 at home against a weakened L’pool side makes US the fearful ones. Not one meaningful shot on goal in the first half, I think.
When we play 4-5-1, we tend to suck, unless it’s Ade all alone up front. It’s a formation best suited to away games against sides who are coming out; at home, it just clogs our natural talent to spread the play and attack.
Newsflash: Bendtner can’t hold up the ball (just like Bergkamp and Aliadiere before him; even Henry when he wasn’t 100%). Gilberto can’t spring attacks to save his life. And young jittery full-backs make EVERYONE afraid to push to far up. (Can’t we blood them in Carling Cup, not the most the important league game of the year?)
And so the midfield, as on Wednesday, was congested, just like Rafa wants it to be. And we didn’t get going until it was too late.
The one plus is that we are scoring from set-pieces. Without that daring new innovation to our play, we would be big-time losers this past month.
If L’pool had any balls on Tuesday they would come out fighting and tear us apart before half-time. Luckily, they won’t, so I suspect it will be 1-1 with some howler in extra-time deciding it.
In a way, it would be worse if we squeak it on Tuesday, because it would prevent Wenger from deeply examining his tactics. He needs to see we need more depth, more strength, more direct aggression from the kick-off if we are going to win the league any time soon.
April 5th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Only a win at Anfield will cure this wound. My expectation are now a champs league spot and a top 2 finish. That is achievable.
April 5th, 2008 at 10:55 am
liverpool are a whack team, that is the only reason they didnt beat us by 3 at least. their attacking quality is lower than spurs in my view.
it will be so sad if we go out to this bunch of tossers.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Fred, stop talking nonsense. Just for once this season. Alexandre Song left midfield? What planet are you on? The guy has not played a game since the ANC and yet you want to stick him on the left wing because he might let the fullback come by him once in a while? Geez, what a tactical genius you are. I’m sure if we had started with Song left midfield everything would have beeen just hunky-dory. Although I seem to remember our full backs getting forward quite alot, and doing feck all.
Hleb should have charged? What are we in, Braveheart? Rob Roy? This isn’t ISS evolution Fred. Anyway, Hleb is a crap sub. He always looks like he’s just got out of bed so bringing him on his never a good move in tense situations. He needs to start and build a momentum. He is not an impact player.
The problem is lacking players like Hleb and Rosicky. Those two are not legendary players, not by a long shot, but if we want to play Wengerball we need players with a similar style to come in and replicate their game. That’s the main reason for our collapse this season, no matter how much try and delude yourself. We lose our possession game, and the our other weaknesses come to the fore. Most notably mental ones.
Anyway, the whole thing is alot more complicated than plain tactics. It’s combination of all that stuff that has gone on before. Lack of depth, poor temperament, lack of nerve, and rank bad management. Today was a symptom. Don’t stress over the symptom, stress over the cause.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Its actually quite straightforward. Arsenal play a high complex system which if on song works brilliantly. If it doesn’t have players on song it fails. MacMac’s point..set pieces — crucial. All the other tactical stuff…okay..whatever. It is all totally hypothetical. I don’t know what AW told the players…maybe they just can’t execute it properly enough?? U think AW told Pires,Gilberto,Freddie etc to play as horribly as they did that season when Paddy left. Hell no…Its just that they couldn’t put it into action for some reason. Sure AW is the one who takes the blame in the end….but surely the players have a role to play. I’m not saying he is a tactical genius..whatever that means but it doesn’t mean he’s a moron like people say he is. Maybe we should have been slugging for 4th place instead from the start…that would probably satisfy you guys.
NB played quite well I thought…I didn’t see him by any stretch as the worst player on the pitch. Why only Theo congratulated him is another thing but he scored again and he’s not as slow as people make out. Mazza’a bullseye on his footballing brain..its very very sharp.
Good today: NB,Gallas,Traore,Almunia,Ade
The rest were all average…no one outstandingly bad or good. Apart from the fact that GIlberto missed a long ball over the top.
The formation was weird though AW didnt really have much choice. Only thing I’d probably have done is take Cesc off and stick Hleb in there. Clichy on for Traore was a normal sub although Song for Gilberto might’ve been better. All more tactical garbage though….Its actually straightforward ..the problem…
Clue: What was the last goal we scored in open play???
April 5th, 2008 at 11:07 am
@Mazza: “Don’t stress over the symptom, stress over the cause.” — More quotes eh Mazza??
April 5th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Got to agree with Fred the hleb Rosicky arguement is tired Mazza. Hleb played in all our recently draws if I remember rightly. I rate him highly but I doubt his mental strength, he is not as influential as he should be so he is not as pivotal as you suggest. Rosicky another good, good player but is not here, period. We can only guess what kind of form he would be in, if in poor form, again, not that pivitol to our success. It’s going to be down to the collective.
Again Nicklas didn’t have a great game but he did score from the set piece. I don’t know how Mazza could have elevated him to one of the best footballing brains in our side based on todays performance though. I suppose it’s that sideways reasoning in effect again.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Lack of depth forces Wenger into weak tactical decisions hence fragmented player performances. It’s all inextricably linked.
When our players are tactically nullified, Wenger becomes our main weakness.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:15 am
I dont like talking about transfers so soon but thought an examle would clear things up a bit. eg. Joaquin for example or Simao are excellent crossers. Trust me ..both would be big duds at Arsenal under AW. The only attacking players who will play Wengerball are multifunctional, bi-wing(:)) , mobile , fast players. One position players — unless they are exceptional…will not work at Arsenal.
p.s…. Since AW is tactically poor I vote we sack him and replace him with Sam Allardyce
April 5th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Yes Danny…like when in an organization 10 people call in sick and business suffers the boss becomes the main weakness. Sorry…its just that when a plan fails due to some reason…teh result is scrutinized far more than it should and the buck stops with the manager irrespective of whether he was at fault or no.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Sorry guys Nicklas has not got a very, very sharp footballing brain. One of his flaws is that he fails to react to what is sometimes the only pass his colleague has to make, instead of coming to the pass he backs off and it looks like his collegue has delivered a bad ball. I have seen show this lack of perception several times, at first I attributed it to laziness, but I think itis a lack of perception that will errode with experience. He is better when in possession of the ball, sometimes he plays an intelligent pass that can lead to some good assists in the future, but his passing can be quite inconsistent although I would say it has been improving throughout the season.
But for the life of me I cannot see how anyone can point NB as someone who possesses a very, very sharp footballing brain.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:27 am
You said it, the buck stops with the manager. His players, his formations, his tactics.
As I said - before the thickos start piping up with “DannyT wants Wenger out” - Wenger has amazing attributes that other managers do not possess, and some deficiencies that other managers do not possess.
Overall, his good attributes outweigh the bad - but I’m not going to sit here and ignore what’s staring me in the face or come out with excuses for yet another dismal performance. 2 wins in 11 now - and there’s got to be a reason, I don’t buy that it’s down to refs or bad luck. It’s not all down to bad tactics either, but some of it is.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:27 am
LDE@102: Danny’s right about Wenger needing to take some of the blame for “players being sick.” Everyone who visits this site new that the team has had no depth since the beginning of the season. To make it through without needing to rely on depth would require amazing luck. The boss knew the team was thin, and he has the money available to strengthen the team, yet he didn’t do it either last summer or in January. The only players he brought in were Eduardo (injured) and Diarra (sold on). Getting Djourou back from loan doesn’t count as strengthening the team, and look, he’s been out almost since he got back. Wenger needs to swallow his pride a bit and do some shopping this summer.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Arthur, it’s only tiring because I keep repeating it. It’s a 100% fact. We do not have any verve or creativity on the wings at all. Without Hleb we would be absolutely no where this season and now, because he’s starting to flag a few people are saying he’s not that important. Er hello, doesn’t his drop in form prove conclusively what I was saying all along? He’s plays poor, we play terrible. A bit of a clue there.
Hleb makes Rosicky better, Rosicky makes Hleb better, Fabregas makes Hleb better, Hleb makes Fabregas better…. and it goes and on.
The world and his dog knew, or should have known, that we needed more players with their characteristics so that when one of them was injured or playing poor, we could ROTATE them.
It’s the system that makes this team special, the philisophy. Without the players to implement the philosophy it all looks very callow.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:34 am
@103 You make a good point. But Wenger could have strengthened in January as we were fighting for the title the champions league and the FA cup. Maybe he was trying to buy a player or two but could not get them. However I feel some of our players are looking tired and we do not have quality replacements with the injuries we have.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Bendtner is 20. He’s done quite well this year considering he plays bit part. I think he has a lot of potential, but is a bit of a slow thinker and lacks pace. If you’re a striker in top tier European football and you lack pace, you better have a good footballing brain to make up for it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he was sold in the summer, mainly because it’s very clear to me that there is a major problem between Bendtner and the rest of the players. In a game of this importance his teammates almost went out of their way NOT to celebrate with him.
The scuffle with Adebayor months ago was a hint of a problem that has probably been there for quite a long time and is obviously not resolved. Adebayor does not seem the type of player to have enemies, he’s very happy go lucky, and when Gallas stepped in at the time he did berated Bendtner even though Adebayor butted HIM, which looked a bit odd.
Today proved there is a big big problem between Bendtner and the rest of this squad, and managers need to get rid of rotten eggs pretty sharpish.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Mazza Hleb’s form has dropped since about November, he has some good spurts here hand there but that’s all. We have coped with Hleb being off form for a long time so we can function without him, same goes for Thomas. We need a bigger squad they do not have to be like Hleb/Rosicky maybe they need to be better.
It’s tiring IMO because it is not true, Neither Hleb or Rosicky has the influence over our team as much as say Gerrard or Fabregas for that matter has over their sides. When Hleb can perform like he did at the beginning of the season consistently then he will be as important to us as say….. ADE.
All that crap about Ade having no vision and poor first touch (1st touch, bad? sometimes), yet NB is some sort of footballing genius, there is a clear bias there Mazza. Did you see Ade perceptive “visionary” lol! back heel/lay offs in the two matches and did you see NBs poor first touch. By the way I have never noticed a player control the ball with his chest as well as Ade, I have seen him cushion the ball with his chest in mid air on a few occasions, magnificent first touch. Where is his credit… I suppose you have transfered it to the less deserving Bendtner.
I believe Nick will come good but he is no way near as useful to our team as Ade, for this season at least.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:53 am
DannyT@105: I agree with you. Had Arsenal pulled it off this year and won the league, Wenger would have been rightfully proclaimed as a genius again. I don’t claim to know anything about tactics so I don’t presume to be able to criticize Wenger on that front but, from a player perspective, this team was short a couple of players and Wenger had to know that by at least the January window. Maybe there wasn’t anyone available but I certainly did not get the sense that he was ever going to do anything. Anyway, several of the guys on the team are running on fumes and that just can’t be allowed to happen when you wish to be considered one of the biggest teams in Europe.
It will be interesting to see how much is left in the tank for Tuesday.
April 5th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Arhur, fans like you will just never understand, so let’s just disagree. Of course, Adebayor is our top goal scorer so he is automatically our most important player. Whatever.
Bendtner has a better footballing brain than Adebayor and he is four years younger. Bendtner knows when to shift the ball wide and when to play central. With Adebayor it’s down the sides all the time. Of course, there’s alot more to it than that and Bendtner has sloppy moments as well, but he is not the one who plays regularly and has the confidence of his teammates. Bendtner is a pariah in the squad. That could could be effecting his game. For me Ade, Ade has a bad touch, tired or not.
Ade is the more effective striker overall at this juncture, but Bendtner has more potential IMO. He is the only young player at the club that I rate as a potential first teamer. Walcott maybe but still not sure.
April 5th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
@ mazza, i will understand a bit if u slag the whole team every single week…but what i dont understand is your relentless praise of hleb.
“charge” means RUN AT THE BOX. so because this is not “ISS pro evo” its OK that he does not ATTEMPT to shoot or ATTEMPT to run at the box? an attacking midfielder?
so now its because he does not make a good “impact” sub. but if he had started you would have said because he is tired.
as for Song on the left. Song in my view is a more attacking option than Gilberto. he always looks to pass forward and long. he has played as many reserve matches as traore anyway and he has actually played more football in the last two weeks than gilberto who has not played for the first team or reserves for about three weeks now.
the absense of gilberto alone would have meant fab and flamini wouldnt have spent the first getting confused as to why an old, slowpassing clod was standing in between them.
it also would have meant bendtner (who YOU prefer to ade) would have had proper support from walcott.
BUT to you the only analysis you could give was: we are useless without hleb.
meanwhile when hleb came on he did nothing and failed to control a ball that he has always controlled throughout his career.
enough with the hleb-lovefest. he is the most talented in the whole squad but he is the DIRECT opposite of a winner.
April 5th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Cesc is dead. Absolutely dead. At this rate he’ll be burnt out by 25 when he goes back to Barcelona. One of those early bloomers - he will be. Big point VG: Whats left for Tuesday? If we’d won there might’ve been something left..now I dont know. Maybe they’ll pull out a miracle ..maybe they’ll stutter and lose. I”m just going to remain calm and watch hoping for the best. BTW If RVP isnt fit be prepared for another 4-5-1only this time Hleb will play in the hole and Diaby wide left.
Its a tough ask - Football Management. Replacing or stocking up on football players is not as simple as stocking up on bread for a week. I’m not going into details…really but buying a player for short term purposes is highly risky and damaging to team chemistry; the younger the team the more easily affected it is. Buying Anelka for example at this stage would tell the kids(they may or may not make it which is a different thing) that it doesn’t matter how good you are…Anelka is proven and a goal scorer. If he’s fit he’s in. Maybe not in those words…but a young inexperienced team will look at it that way. On hindsight its very easy to say that we should have bought players. What after the injured are fit again?? No wait…Big teams should have a large squad..blah blah. Yes I know. But then again you cant have everything..its an unenviable job most of us armchair tacticians would flop at. So just chill and enjoy the fact that we challenged well this season.
As for the buys all I would do is sell Eboue and buy a right winger from say; Luxemborg
for 5,43,000 pounds rising up to an “undisclosed fee” 
April 5th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
@ danny: yeah, i think its likely that bendtner will ask to leave in the summer.
i think fabregas and flamini probably hate him the most not just ade …..for some reason.
the worst part was during the CC game at the beginning of the season against newcastle….when traore crossed and bendtner scored a header, traore went out of his way to avoid bendtner while all the other players went to celebrate with traore who wasnt even the one that scored.
and this was the second team and this was in october!
i doubt it is just his arrogance, it must be that he rubs off very badly on his teammates for some reason.
April 5th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Every striker has different attributes - I’ll take the one who’s all-round game is most “effective”. Maybe Bendtner will be at Adebaoyr’s level in 4 years, but by then Adebayor will be 28 and might be at Drogbas level.
Adebayor’s “bad touch” is overstated. Last season I would say yes it was pretty awful, this season it has improved considerably and hopefully he’ll make further gains next season.
I suspect that if it had been Adebayor getting in Cesc’s way last Wednesday or fluffing up that easy chance today, Mazza would be ripping him limb from limb - but because he’s invested positive comments in Bendtner he chose to ignore it.
At this juncture, only an idiot would replace Adebayor with Bendtner full time.
April 5th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
When everyone is fit & things are good for Arsenal, you can see a smooth flow through the team and there is a belief that the team will score and win. But the last few weeks, the team has played in spurts — bursts of good moments, then bad patches. Even today, there was a brief moment of fluidity where it appeared that Arsenal could have taken the lead but those moments were not plentiful. Ofcourse, given the players out there, I didn’t expect them to win like they did in the first half of the season. In most cases, I was expecting certain players to do something wonderful and pull a win out of nothing. While it may be possible to win a few games on the back some individual performances, it is much harder to expect the team to continue winning on a consistent basis if the best players are not there and those that are seem incapable of not winning.
In the title winning years of 2002 & 2004, Arsenal always had to play their strongest teams even against bottom teams. I always felt then that if the big players were not there, then Arsenal might not win. Whereas, ManUtd could always rest a few of their stars and still get results in 2002. I often put that down to other teams not giving it their all against Man Utd. In some cases that was true, but not everytime. Whatever the case, the big Arsenal players did get tired out near the end of the season. Thankfully, they still got the title in those seasons. Although, in the 2004 F.A Cup game against Utd, you could see that tiredness creep in Arsenal.
This season, I felt Cesc, Hleb & Ade had to be there in everygame, otherwise the team would be below par. Although, I am not sure what has gone wrong with Hleb. Seriously, was the gelato that good in Milan for him?
April 5th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Fred, I think Hleb is vital because he is one of only two players of his type in the squad. It’s not because I think the sun shines out his arse, it’s because when he doesn’t play we often have complete clowns playing in his place. Arsenal play a pass and move game. To play that we need link players. As I said in pre-season, our lack of link players will gradually kill our team, because the team has to work to hard to overcome technical deficit. Diaby is a link player but he is severely lacking in even the most basic attributes to be a viable stand in.
So when Hleb plays crap, I do admit it, like after Wigan away, but I also cut him some slack because he know how important he is with our current squad.
If we sign Arshavin, Ben Arfa etc in the summer I will be the first to call for his exclusion if he is flaffing about.
April 5th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
LDE@114: I agree that the personnel issue is not simple nor do I mean to suggest that Wenger had easy choices. But we were close this year and I believe that, by January, Wenger had to know several facts: our wing play was dependent largely on two players and our defense was exceedingly thin. I do not and can not blame him for not buying any forwards because, at that point, he thought he had 3 (and possibly 4) good to excellent choices at striker. And lastly, you are right, hindsight is very easy. As anyone reading this site knows, I am a big fan of Wenger but even, for those of us who admire and respect him so much, there are occasions when we feel frustrated by his obstinancy. As someone else wrote earlier in this posting, no human is perfect. But I much prefer our manager to those other managers in England who are viewed as “winners.”
April 5th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Fred watch the clip again…I just rewatched it. Everyone celebrated that goal. You’re making far too much out of something that isnt probably that serious.
April 5th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
LDE @114. I know it is a tough thing to debate about having a big squad. Yes depth should be there, but injuries make such things complicated. If a team has 2 quality players in each position, but what if both get injured? Then you could still have a situation where the make-shift player would not do. So then should a team have 3 players for each position? 2 years ago (I believe) didn’t Arsenal have 8 defenders out and 3-4 of them could have covered left back?
Arsenal have suffered more injuries than their rivals over the past 3 years. Can it be luck? or the amount of games they play? I don’t know and it has been tough trying to cope with those losses. I remember when Jose had 2-3 injuries a year or so ago, he complained that maybe he should dress up for a game. Even though he had players like Essien who could play in multiple positions. Also, I am tired of thinking what if Ronaldo was injured for ManUtd. They would have sucked if Ronaldo was out. But he is enjoying such fine form that he is getting cockier with each game, even though it is hard to imagine how more arrogant he can get. Frustrating.
I hope there is some lesson for Wenger here. It is good to have faith in young stars, but it is becoming apparent some are not ready or some are not good enough.
April 5th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Danny, the Bendtner incident was a freakish one. I criticise Ade for not seeing runners or being over-excitable when we are attempting to play our surgeon-football. That’s probably why most cannot understand why I criticise Ade at times. They just don’t see what I see or study the game as in depth as me. It’s also why people cannot grasp my Hleb/Rosicky argument either.
Sounds arrogant, but feck it, I’ll do Nicklas Bendtner and say what I think.
April 5th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Yeah, they celebrated alright, but not with Bendtner - only Walcott went up to him.
April 5th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Not today Danny. Fred talked about the Newcastle CC game. Today I saw.
April 5th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
@ LDE: nope, in the highlight reel i watched traore ensure he didnt jump on bendtner……..the players coming behind proceed to jump on traore and then there is a cutoff to replays. whether they finally celebrate with bendtner, i dont know.
anyhoo, doesnt matter now…..its obvious he doesnt get on with his teammates. u dont need to start an argument about that.
April 5th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Mazza people do not see why you criticise Ade at times. All our players can be criticised about this or that most of the time, it’s is just your perception of Ade is not valid considering his effect on the team when he plays, excluding the goals he scores.
Your resounding praise or Bendtner is clear evidence of your bias rather than the naivety that you claim “fans like” me chave.
Regardless of today, we can d