Yesterday, a little bit more detail about Chelsea and Man U’s debts has been revealed in the Guardian; it turns out that this year’s Champions League finalists collectively owe £1.5bn. The funny part of the story is Chelsea’s insistence (through Peter Kenyon’s rabid drivelings) that they don’t have any debt. Oops, I mean “outside debt.”
In a rather Orwellian manner, Chelsea are claiming that they have no debt because, as it turns out, all that money that Abramovich is pouring into the club is actually just “interest free loans.” Which isn’t really a debt right? So, while the Guardian maintains that Chelsea currently owe £736m, Chelsea says “we owe no external banks.”
Right, you just have bonds issued to the tune of £578m in the name of Roman Abramovich and payable within 18 months of his demand. David Dein once famously described Abramovich’s spending as “Roman’s sitting in his tank firing £50 notes at us.” As usual DD was wrong, because if you look closely at those notes, they are IOUs.
Debt? What debt?
The other interesting fact in this article is that both United and Chelsea are actually running annual deficit spending as well. So, not only do that have enormous, unsustainable, club killing debts, but they run nearly £80m in the red every year. And every year their debt gets bigger and bigger and the prospect of their wealthy owners ever earning a dime on their billions in “investments” gets smaller and smaller.
I can’t see any future for these two clubs that doesn’t lead to a financial collapse. If you look, the signs of crisis are already in the offing; United can’t even pay off their transfer fees from last year’s foray into the market. How long before teams stop selling them players on IOU? What happens to United if their banks demand payment on their debt (they currently can’t even pay their interest)? What happens to Chelsea when Roman gets sick of losing £100m a year and stops funding their unsustainable salary structure? Or worse, demands a portion of his £600m debt be returned?
There was a time, when I, like many Arsenal supporters, saw the free spending ways of Man U, Chelsea, and Liverpool and wished that we had some rich guy to help us compete in the market. I no longer have any lingering doubt about the course the Arsenal board is on.
So, whichever club wins, I hope they enjoy the Champions League final today; I’m sure the trophy will be for sale soon on Ebay.
53 Responses to “Do Arsenal need a Sugar Daddy?”
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May 21st, 2008 at 11:52 am
There’s also another factor - the way Man U and Chelsea been spending, the only way they can keep going like this is to ensure they QUALIFY for CL every year.
now that sound easy enough for them. but in football u never know, particularly with the new CL format the 3rd and 4th place teams need to play pre qualifying round in order to get to the $$$ group stage.
it only takes ONE slip up in the league, however unlikely it is, to put their finanical situation into a big mess. that’s exactly how Leeds started their downfall - failed to qualify for CL in one season.
the CL to clubs like Man U and Chelsea are almost like oxygen tank.
of course their fans are happy, because they are winning things, get to see new big name signings every season. but i am a believer of what goes around comes around. the earth is round. few ppl appreicated Arsenal’s careful spending policy. but IMO this is the right way to run a club. or in fact, running any soft of business - watch ur income before you decide to spend. If you keep doing it the other way around, spend regardless of the income, there’s only one way they are heading, it’s just a matter of time. No successful company in any industry run the business this way.
May 21st, 2008 at 11:53 am
http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/2008/05/21/arsenal-not-in-final-as-they-dont-have-enough-debt/
This is another good article that highlights the problem.
May 21st, 2008 at 11:56 am
http://arsenalanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/05/nasri-transfer-to-arsenal-hits-snag.html
This could end up like the Baptista saga. Clubs will always wait for a better deal and at present, there are many clubs that will pay more (transfer fees and salary) than Arsenal.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:06 pm
There’s also another factor - the way Man U and Chelsea been spending, the only way they can keep going like this is to ensure they QUALIFY for CL every year.
Hey, I had forgotten about that.
I like the analogy that the Champions League is like Oxygen!
May 21st, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Ever since I first came across David Conn’s excellent book The Beautiful Game?, I try to read his articles about the game’s dirty finances. And this Guardian article yesterday continues the work he did for his book. I think he needs to collect these articles and the ones he writes for World Soccer and get an updated version of his book out.
Andez, taking your oxygen mentioning a bit further. So if something were to happen today that would cause both teams to be banned from Europe next year, can we expect the two of them to collapse and go on a mass sale in the summer? I can’t be the only one thinking that
May 21st, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Prediction for the CL final: United 3 2 Chelsea
May 21st, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Even winning the CL does not provide them with enough capital to offset their expenses.
The fact is that Liverpool and Manu are in a worse position than Chelsea because none of their owners have the cash at hand to bail them out financially as with Roman at Chelsea. If Roman demanded immediate repayment of loans he would only be bankrupting Chelsea, which he owns, and would devalue the club to the extent where he would have greater losses.
Manu and Liverpool are currently living on borrowed capital to finance their acquisitions and daily expenses, so much so that they are not even meeting their total annual interest payment budget.
Manu and Liverpool’s only real solution at this time is to sell large blocs of shares for the inflated share value at which they are currently assessed. Fortunately, there are many willing suitors ready to pounce at the opportunity to acquire partial or majority shares in a world renowned EPL Club for the international exposure which comes along with it.
In the long run however, this practice of running on annual losses will have to come to and end and then they will just be regular clubs once more. Unfortunately, until Chelsea, Juventus, AC Milan, Real Madrid and Barcelona establish a basis of fiscal responsibility other clubs will be driven to adopt their model in order to compete or die in the attempt.
So don’t worry folks, Arsenal may not be winning all the trophies but at least we will be able to watch their beautiful football for many years to come.
By the way, Kroenke is a businessman and his vast sporting empire runs at a profit. He is not the type to splash his cash unless their is a tangible financial return in the cards, so we should not look at him as a Sugar Daddy. Usamov appears to have the ego of a Sugar Daddy and would love to compete with Roman on the basis of Russian prestige. Can’t see Peter Hill-Wood dealing with that “sort” though so we can forget about that for the near future unless Kroenke, Dein and Usamov decide to be bed partners.
May 21st, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Unfortunately, there are many negative things that come from adopting a Sugar Daddy.
Just like the pretty young lady who sells her body and soul to the proverbial, older, affluent gentleman, she also sells the right to govern her own destiny, is totally dependent on the whims and fancies of her “Daddy” and loses self governance. In other words she has succumbed to “prostitution” for the sake of material riches.
I don’t think any true Arsenal fan wants us to become a “WHORE”.
May 21st, 2008 at 2:45 pm
I think Man U vs. Chelsea, with both teams away from home, will be defensive, closely matched, and low scoring (i.e. boring). It could very well end in penalties.
I don’t know who to root against in the one. I wouldn’t mind seeing Avram Grant prove that Mourinho is not so special. However, I’m not sure I could take it if Cashley won a medal. On the flip side, I would just wretch if I had to watch Fergie celebrating a CL victory. What a dilemma.
May 21st, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Yeah, don’t wannie see Fergie get a double. And it has been boring so far.
May 21st, 2008 at 5:43 pm
THANK GOODNESS Man U won.
This match has made me realize how much i really HATE Chelsea. F-cking cheats that they are.
Ashley Cole!! HAHAHAHA!
Anelka! LOL.
John Terry - BWWAWWWAWAWA!!!
Special mention to Ballack and Lampard!
Abramovitch….still cant buy that cup can you?
Thank goodness those c-nts arent the first London team to win CL.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:01 pm
USGunner I share your sentiments, the two worst teams I could ever imagine playing for the CL final. But in the end I feel sorry for Chelsea, I think they are the lesser evil, and they deserved to win the match. Oh well
May 21st, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Am so glad the punk Cuntley Cole has received his 2nd ECL loser’s medal !
Was great 2 see glory hunting English Materazzi j Terry miss, fall on his bum, then cry like an malnutritioned baby!
Thank you thank u mercenary Anelka for missing!
I still hate the Mancs thou!
May 21st, 2008 at 6:10 pm
I think the Chelsea fans must have had one of the worst seasons any fan would want to experience.
Finishing 2nd in the league in the FINAL game of the season, and losing out CL via penalty shootout, with their Mr. Chelsea the one to bottle the potentially cup winning shot.
Yes, they had beat a hell lot of teams throughout the course of the season, including us. Yet in the end what’s the DIFFERENCE? all their effect went straight down the toilet.
the only plus side is, to us at least, instead of spending all their time analysising Arsenal’s PROBLEM, now the press, the fans, the world will start talking about CHELSEA’S PROBLEM. telling us 1000 reasons WHY they failed to win anything, and telling us 10000 solutions on how to improve their side….
on last note - poor cashley, he’s like a curse to Chelsea. Ever since joining Chelsea, they had not won the two trophies that matter 2 years in a row. And Cashley now will go down to history as one of the rare players who had lost in the CL final twice with two different clubs.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:12 pm
and one more thing, even Ronaldo would miss penalty too!
May 21st, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Can’t complain about Terry missing the winner. He is a classless pr**k.
Sidenote: Was just looking thru a list of previous CL winners, and noticed a team I had never heard of (Nottingham Forest) that won it twice in a row (back in the 80s). Now, they are in League One. What’s the story on the clubs fall from grace? If thats the case.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Forest basically is a midsize club, at least not as big as those big guns. they were CL champions basically had to thank for the late Brian Clough. he’s their legend. an one man show. the original Special One!
their downfall probably down to the fact Clough had outstayed his welcome. when i started watching English game back in the mid late 80s, Forest already started going downhill. not to mention the common factor of a giant falling side - finanical meltdown in later years.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:42 pm
I was waiting for another team to kick the ball out against Chelsea so see what Terry’s reaction would be after doing the same thing himself against us. Surprise, surprise, he went ballistic. Karma is a bitch eh Terry.
That moment swayed me into supporting United. I despise some of the Chelsea players while United don’t have too many. Even Rooney is not as despicable as he used to be.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:47 pm
“Despite winning the European Cup twice, Clough regarded his greatest achievement to be the record breaking unbeaten run his team set between 26 November 1977 and 9 December 1978, the team went undefeated for 42 league games - the equivalent of a whole season. The record stood until August 2004 when it was bettered by Arsenal, who went on to play 49 league games without defeat.”
Thanks for the info, Mazza. Found this quote on Wiki, when reading about him.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Sorry about that, meant to say thanks to Andez. Very glad Terry got it right back at him; remember that crap he pulled against Arsenal.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:02 pm
“The evil that men do lives after them” instantly sprang to mind after Chelsea’s “glorious failure”. Terry, Cole, Anelka, Drogba, Mikel and Abramovich were punished today. ManU’s time will come. How fitting is it that a 41 goal scorer has his PK saved on the biggest stage.
The only person I felt sorry for in Chelsea’s lost was Grant who has conducted himself with class. But Avram, you have got have Schevchenko or Alex on for PKs and not let Terry take one.
How slick was Van Dar Sar pointing to his left before Anelka then shot to his right. He faked Anelka out without dancing around. The next best thing he could have done was pull out a piece of paper before each shooter :).
The only 2 players on Chelsea I would take for Arsenal are Cech and Essien. On ManU, I would take Ronaldo, Vidic, Evra, and Tevez.
The rollcall of ‘decent (*)’ players whose careers have disappeared into the abyss that is Chelsea: SWP, Sidwell, Schevchenko, Anelka, Ben Haim(* not), Alex, Malouda, and Belletti. All recent aquisitions who are now the best paid bench warmers in the world. Tsk, tsk.
My concern about Arsenal’s ‘mortgage’ debt will be the rate of defaults. The last I read this was stated to be about 5% on properties already purchased. Hopefully this figure does not sky rocket.
Apparently Nasri’s agent (Bernes) was at Marseille when they stole the title from Monaco. So there is bad blood between him and Wenger. Will Wenger even shake the man’s hand. Stay tuned.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Honestly, I would definitely take Czech, Essien, Terry, Makelele and Drogba from Chelsea, and Vidic, Ronaldo, Tevez and maybe Ferdinand from Manu.
The game comprised mainly of wrestling, flopping and complaining, interspersed by a few moments of brilliance. Big reason not to watch two English teams compete for the CL, Arsenal excluded.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:41 pm
They were the two best teams in the EPL, the best league in Europe this year… and the two best teams in Europe this season. That it came down to penalties is a shame. With no more games to play, I’d let them play forever until a goal is scored… before it goest to PKs. Horrible way to end a match or title or championship.
United were the best team in Europe. Kudos to them.
Ronaldo had a spectacular season. Rooney is an excellent player. Tevez is outstanding as well. They have a great nucleus of talent. Young and old players that are willing to work hard and play roles when necessary… and a better defense than the Arsenal. It will be difficult to take this team down in the next few years. United will be playing for titles and trophies for years to come.
We need to step up … bring in the necessary talent… and depth… and if we do, we can definitely compete with Chelsea and United for ANY title… right now, we are a step below. Liverpool are as well. Not far behind… but a notch behind…
May 21st, 2008 at 7:49 pm
IF U CAN SPEND THE MONEY WISELY THAN YES
May 21st, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Chelsea also lost in the final of the Carling Cup, so they came short on 3 titles. But as per the Jose logic, then only winning means something. I wonder how happy Jose must be. Has Roman seen enough and will he be away flying away in the summer? He might not come closer to winning the CL than today, so…
There would have been a certain ironic poetry if it would have been Cole’s penalty miss that could have cost Chelsea the Cup. Because he left Arsenal to win “big trophies” but he is still waiting for that big title. Unless Cole counts the Carling Cup as that big one.
I had a feeling that Ronaldo would miss his kick. And I am glad that the ref allowed his stutter step incorrect kick to stand.
May 21st, 2008 at 11:10 pm
stag don’t take this personal… but the more I read your argument the more I come to the conclusion that you are a manc or chel$ki fan masked in arsenal’s red and white.
What’s your criteria for best? chel$ki definitely doesnt play better football than arsenal (I’d say Mancs are close enuf to not warrant my disparaging the quality of their football). Consistency however, is another matter entirely and that is where the 2 teams have been better than us (not quality of soccer). In fact, it’s not been by much either (4 points btw inconsistent arsenal and consistent man u).
It’s tough when my fav team doesn’t win but the season’s been long enuf for me to put things in perspective. BTW, I only saw the first half and part of the second and there was enuf thuggery (scoles, makalele, to mention a few) in it to make me shake my head.
And now for the punch line: Arsenal’s got a system going. Last year we finished 20 points adrift. This year 4 points. If anybody cant wait around and believe in the system then you better either jump on the Mancs bandwagon or better still join Spurs (that’s hoping Ramos maintains the status quo in n. london)
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:57 am
Thankfully, that was Drogba’s last game. He has always been our tormentor in chief.
Am still trying to figure out why all 11 of their player’s had to surround Tevez and get all violent - it wasnt an impromptu thing at all - it was all planned bully tactics.
Anyhoo, cant wait for next season.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:12 am
You know, the thing about Anelka is that he probably wont lose any sleep over that miss ….he’ll probably just go “meh, i’m moving again in the summer anyways” LOL.
Anyway, what do you guys think of the Coquelin and Chantome ???
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:47 am
This is going to be a BIG summer for Arsene.
ManU are back to league champions and Euro champions. That will do their morale, confidence and arrogance a world of good. You can be assured that Fergie will not rest on his laurels. Debt or no debt, he will spend big again to plug holes in the team (replacements for Silvestre and Saha). That will make them even stronger.
There is a notion that ManU are an old team. I only see VDS, Scholes and Giggs on the wrong side of 30. Replacements for the latter two are already signed up last season. Actually, I see most of the team reaching it’s peak age - Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo, Hargreaves, Vidic, Ferdinand, etc. The only thing that will destabilize ManU is if Real somehow manage to get Ronaldo.
Arsenal, on the other hand, have already been dealt a triple blow. Eduardo is injured, Flamini has left and Hleb is worse off. Vela has got his permit and Nasri is tipped to sign. I hope this is only a start and we will see more in the summer. The one thing I fear is a repetition of the Baptista affair. Wenger has a tendency to not sign anyone if he doesn’t get his preferred player. It’s quite early in the summer so let’s hope the Narsi deal doesn’t go on forever.
PS: I get a feeling that this Chelsea team will crumble now. Lots of players will leave and they will take some time to regroup.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:49 am
The one Chelsea player I covet is Essien. He is the closest I have seen someone to being like Vieira. He can boss the midfield like no one else. He could be the perfect foil for Cesc.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:29 am
I would laugh my head off if Ronaldo left. Their triumph last night could have made that more likely. Nothing left to achieve there and all that jazz.
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:38 am
Ronaldo leaving may not necessarily be a bad thing for Man Utd…..for an Arsenal fan lke me..the only positive to come out of Man Utd’s performances this season was their dependence on Ronaldo….something akin to what Arsenal were when Henry was in his prime…..we won titles too….but at a cost.
If Real bid for him and Man Utd come away with 100 million as is being touted in the press….my take is that they will take it and promptly invest it in 2-3 big names…which would actually make them stronger than they are this year. So I’m hoping that Ronaldo stays…..but..as in the case of Hleb..is Ronaldo in a position to buy out his contract??….if he is…then as Wenger warned….the effect of the Webster clause could totally change the face of football transfers and possibly football.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:30 am
I don’t think United will fold if Ronaldo left. You have to put the bias aside and give United credit where it’s due - their success if largely due to team work, and Ronaldo’s brilliance just adds icing on the cake. During the Invincible season we had plenty of players besides Henry who regularly contributed but everyone else
labeled us a “one man team”.
Besides, there seem to be a sense of awareness amongst United players, despite their own limited abilities (esp those overpriced bench warmers), they know what there role is once called upon and they carry it out with professional performances.
Keep in mind it wasn’t Ronaldo’s performance that beat us 4-0 at Old Trafford, it was their entire team who knew what their roles were and carried it out. That’s what is missing in the head of our younger players - focus and confidence.
By all means, I think United will have to cash in on Ronaldo to cover for those growing deficit and £100m will just be enough to cover for those interest payments in arrears from seasons past…
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:40 am
I quite like Essien, but have to wonder if having too many african players on our team will hinder us every two winters with the ANC.
United didn’t have to lose any players to a mid-season tournament and they can rest all of their English players this summer (for obvious reasons) so they will only become stronger next year with more singings, with or without ronaldo. I think he’s a great player but put any other decent striker in his place and he would score 20+ goals. Most of Ronaldo’s goals are a result of great team work and he’s just the one finishing it.
Anyways, my United mate once told me “Look at that Viera, he’s got the look of an imposing asshole right there, but that’s what makes him and Keano great”. We have yet to find a proper captain replacement and for me that should be at the top of the list instead of being linked with more technical players… where are the character players that we need to sign?
We have done very well this season on ability alone. What got us was there wasn’t any real leadership when things went against us, we lost confidence and ultimately our ability for a while and ended up 3rd.
For all the skills and potential we have in the squad, we have no enforcer to protect and lead them.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:44 am
Neova, I said “destabilize” and you interpreted it as “fold”?
You make a very good point though -
“there seem to be a sense of awareness amongst United players, despite their own limited abilities (esp those overpriced bench warmers), they know what there role is once called upon and they carry it out with professional performances”
I thought Owen Hargreaves did a great job as right winger last night. Lot better than Eboue has done for us all season. Of course, Owen may not put in a similar performance if called on a consistent basis. But last night, when called upon and on a BIG night, he did a very good job.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:44 am
Actually if we look back at the case of Man U. Remember how many years they hadn’t won a league title since finally won it back last season? Three years.
And at that time they looked like a side going downhill, with key players started going down the hill. At that time they bought in a young winger Ronaldo. He’s good, but not as good when he first joined, at least in terms of end product.
yet with years’ experience under his belt, he finally lived up to his high expectation last season, and never look back since.
the theory that Rooney is an EXCELLENT player is beyond me. He’s an excellent NAME, a BIG NAME, but how exactly was his PEFRORMANCE the in recent years?
he’s playing with a exellent side with great players around him. that made him look far better than he really is, just watch how he played for England. A great player, however impossible, expensive they may be, would inevitably be linked with the Series A, La Liga giants. People want ronaldo, they want Cesc, they want Gerrard. Who wants Rooney?
United’s success in recent years, large part of it down to Ronaldo. He’s like Maradona during his hey days, singlehandly carrying a side to glory. if he stays with Man U for a few more years, there’s a good chance he will become probably the greatest player ever play in England.
i don’t jump into the bandwagon to adore him. but he sure hell has earned my respect. not only because of his performance the past 2 seasons, but think of how he did it? The man became a scapegoat after England’s exit from last WC. Got booed everywhere when he returned. A lesser man would have easily ducked their sorry asses to La Liga or Series A, citing that he wants peaceful life, or England’s weather don’t suit him… whatever.
but he opted to stay. and in fact, pushed his game to another level. that, u gotta take the off for this man. he not only got the skills, got the look, but also got a lion heart. that’s something very very rare in football world.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:47 am
“During the Invincible season we had plenty of players besides Henry who regularly contributed but everyone else labeled us a “one man team”.
But Henry scored HALF of our goals in the Invincible season. Henry was winning us half our points the whole season.
Ronaldo is doing the same but at an even higher scale. He has scored winning or “lead-in” goals in about 15 league games this season. That is a phenomenal record.
If they sell Ronaldo for like 60 to 80 million, they will definitely splash the cash and buy two strong, well-known players to replace him. The catch is that the new player might probably need some time to bed in - and that will give us a larger chance.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:54 am
Oh by the way, its incredible someone of Sheva’s stature and cost can even make it off the bench in a CL final. Just a couple of years ago this guy was the greatest striker in the world. Now he is just an unhappy loser on the bench - dreaming of the past.
It doesnt pay to move just for the money.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:56 am
@ 35: Actually I think Hargreaves played more as the third man in a 3 man CM not as a right winger. Man U were playing 4-3-3 i think.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Hakyn.
Why can’t you appreciate teams other than Arsenal.
We haven’t won a title or trophy in 3 years? United have.
It has ZERO to do with wanting them to win, or supporting them.
But I have an appreciation for their team, and what WE need to do in order to compete with their level of play.
We had BOTH Chelsea and United DOWN in the 2nd half of matches… AND we had Liverpool DOWN on the away goals in the CL.
We coughed up ALL of those matches… the better teams have another level to go into, when it has to be done.
We did it against… Bolton, but not against the best.
Its fairly simple. They won. We didn’t. Again.
They are better than we are. Its not even debatable.
You have folks that say we are doing it right… because we aren’t spending money… well, if thats your criteria, perhaps PORTSMOUTH should be the team. They won the FA Cup, and they aren’t close to any of the big 4 in spending… littered with ex-Arsenal players!
AC Milan comes calling for Adebayor… how much are they willing to spend for him?
If RVP is ever healthy, who would people prefer in our team.
A healthy RVP or Adebayor… (presuming we can only have one)
Just a hypothetical question.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:39 pm
@39, No, ManU were clearly playing 4-4-2 at the start (a fact repeated often by Andy Gray and Martin Tyler of Sky). Hargreaves was mostly on the right wing and even in the box at times.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Well, the commentators are known for talking whack from time to time….especially Andy Gray and Mart Tyler.
Watching the game, I saw 3 banks of 3 flat in the middle with ronaldo, tevez and rooney relatively flat up front.
Anyway, it doesnt matter.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Grudgingly I have to admit that Ronaldo is the most complete player I have ever had the privilege to see play and I have seen most of the greats.
Aside from his annoying habit of flopping at the slightest touch he has no weaknesses.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Stag,
I said in my last post that Man U played good enuf soccer for me not to disparage them. I just dont brag about their soccer prowess. No I leave that responsibility to ManU fans. And I also mention, at the least provocation, their foibles because I’m an Arsenal fan (once again I’ll leave it to their fans to overlook their fallings).
The thing is I dont buy the logic that it was Mancs vs Chel$ki in the final b/c they play the best football. NO!
In any case, we are not going to agree on this one… you usually take the more pessimistic look at things and I take a more optimistic (every thing will work out in time) look at things. We both also think the way we each look at this is REALITY.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
I think we can all agree that individually Manu, Chelsea and Liverpool have better players, more go to guys, greater quality squad depth, experience and leadership than Arsenal since the breakup of the invincible’s.
However, for whatever reason, Arsene is able to take a young, inexperienced squad and have them play way above their level and overachieve. All this, while playing some of the most exciting football in the entire world.
Arsene must have a magic wand at his beck and call and I only hope he does not lose it.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Hak.
I’ll say this… WE PLAY THE BEST FOOTBALL!
But ManU and Chelsea are BETTER TEAMS.
Playing the best football doesn’t mean much.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:39 pm
stag, it does mean something though, playing the best football…. wasn’t it the reason that attracted u to support Arsenal at the first place? or because of we were winning trophies back then?
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Andez.
The reason I was attracted to the Arsenal.
The atmosphere. Highbury. The supporters.
I was “taken” to a friendly many years ago, with very little interest in “the Football”. The match was 0-0, and the support and singing and chanting and comraderie before and after the match is what hooked me on the Arsenal, and Football. It certainly wasn’t the style of play!
There were supporters wearing kits that had # 8 - GOD on the back. And while Ian Wright was obviously skilled, he was ON the pitch as much as he was creating chances. It was not Arsene Wenger’s Arsenal… thats for sure.
So… No… we weren’t winning trophies when I started supporting, and we weren’t playing the beautiful game either.
But I am HAPPY we do now. No doubt about that.
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:18 am
Let’s help Arsenal prioritize for next season.
Become a Better team first and win games
Then play beautiful football as a by-product as a bonus eye candy
Not the other way around.
United played good football for most of the season, and even managed to scrap together a result when playing poorly. Then from time to time the will put on an awesome display that is both efficient and beautiful to watch.
Arsenal played beautiful football in most if it matches this season, and for the most part got a result but too often dropped points by dominating possession yet not finishing chances. Then we struggled for a long spell and still we tried to play beautiful football but now it really looked ugly because we had players missing and it was mostly our 2nd string trying to emulate the beautiful football played by the 1st string and it didn’t work.
It’s a very long-winded way to make a very short point - win first, play beautiful football later.
May 23rd, 2008 at 2:01 am
From an economic point of view, I don’t think it is viable to be just a “beautiful football” playing club. Winning trophies is a very much needed to increase your brand value and fan base (and ultimately make more money). There are only so many people in this world (like many of us here) who will support Arsenal if they don’t win but play well.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:17 am
I’m not sure about that Neova. Arsenal played alot of crap football this season and sneaked out results. Don’t remember too many champagne performances.
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:47 pm
nipuna, did u see the full house attendence during our match Vs Derby? they were already relegated, they play crap football. yet somehow there were still lot of fans watching their games. now i wonder why?
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Andez, local support is one thing. TV and worldwide support is another. I am talking about widening your fan base, not just filling a stadium. I am pretty sure Derby don’t have even a decent following beyond their local area.
I live 5000 miles away from London. If I don’t get to watch Arsenal on TV, I will struggle to keep in touch. But being a die hard fan, I will somehow manage. Now imagine a new fan yet to choose a club. If the TV doesn’t show Arsenal games, why will he start supporting us?
Where I live, around 80% of the people are ManU supporters. The rest are split between Arsenal and Chelsea. Almost all Chelsea supporters have cropped up in the last 4 years. Now take a guess why? Nothing to do with them winning titles? Because I remember them playing pretty good football in the days of Zola & Gullit. Just a handful of Liverpool supporters. Nothing to do with them being nowhere near the title race?
You might say we don’t need such plastic fans. I might not care about them either. But the club needs them to sell more merchandise, more TV rights, etc.