May 23
Posting a thread for any Arsenal or general football related discussion. Of interest on Sat, May 24 is the play-off final between Bristol City and Hull to determine the final team getting promoted to the Premier League next season. Also, on Sat & through next week are plenty of international games prior to Euro 2008. The African World Cup qualifying games start next week as well.
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:49 pm
A thread for any Arsenal or general football related discussion… like slating Eboue and Senderos? lol
May 23rd, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Hleb’s agent has confirmed he is leaving Arsenal after talks with Wenger.
Surprise, surprise, Wenger has backed down after his usual guff about adopting a tough stance. I know there is nothing else he can realistically do but it just goes to show clubs don’t take his authoritive tone at all seriously these days. Inter probably laughing throughout his rants.
May 23rd, 2008 at 7:18 pm
There is nothing ANY club can do about it apart from PAY more money….nothing else really.
May 23rd, 2008 at 7:26 pm
And ofcourse he is ONLY trying to get a transfer fee. Absolutely nothing else.
May 23rd, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Get real Mazza. Fergie talked like taking a strong stance with Heinze last season, threaten to never let him go. but in the end what happened? authoritive tone or not, today’s football world the power is with the players, not the managers. even Brian Clough alives today and still managing, he couldn’t possibly adopt his old approach - my way, or out of the way. And wonder why George Graham had never managed any side again since Spurs?
the world has changed. whether Inter laughing or not does not concern us, in the end the thing matters is who;s going to have the last laugh.
Barca probably was laughing when they signed Henry as well. not they surely are not laughing right now.
May 23rd, 2008 at 7:57 pm
I know Andez. I’m just gutted.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:01 pm
apparently Nasri is on the way in. so let’s be real, whoever leaving, whoever wants to leave, however big a name, however important a role he is to us… Arsenal, as a football club, will always be able to live WITHOUT them. We had seen the departure of Vieira, the departure of Henry.. both players who had done so much for us at the past. And we moved on without them. The team did not fall apart like ppl suggested when we sold Henry.
As for Hleb, whatever quality he got as a player, he has done NOTHING for Arsenal FC. So if he wants to go, I for once sure hell wont shed a tear. And I know there are plenty of players who would love to come to Arsenal.
Hleb’s a good player, but come on, let’s don’t make him sound like he’s really a Johan Cruyff or something.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:05 pm
i m gutted as well mazza. especially i had always been supportive to him the past few years, especially the first two seasons when he struggled big time, and so did many other Gooners here as well. finally he had one good season, and now he’s off?
f*ck it.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:08 pm
“plenty of players who would love to come to Arsenal”
Yeah, plenty of players who want to come to Arsenal who to make a name for themselves and then piss off to when they feel like it. 95% of them also happen to still be going through puberty.
Both Henry and Vieira were past it. Hleb was still alive and well, and a VITAL cog in the Cesc-driven machine. Cesc is Maverick. Hleb is Goose.
Make no mistake, this is a disaster of catastrophic proportions.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Don’t take my words too seriously Andez. Just taking this all in. May take some time.
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:07 pm
“disaster of catastrophic proportions.”.
His arrival heralded 3 years where we won absolutely NOTHING - now that is what you call a disaster signing LOL. I look forward to his departure. We need less losers and more winners in there.
I have serious doubts Inter are going to win the Serie A next season, but if they sign Hleb, then they would have sealed their faith!
If he goes to Madrid, am going to put a big bet on Barca for La Liga.
Hleb is like Midas - only it aint gold. lol.
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:10 pm
“Yeah, plenty of players who want to come to Arsenal who to make a name for themselves and then piss off to when they feel like it. 95% of them also happen to still be going through puberty.”
that depends on individual. if we look at the cases of Vieira and Henry, we felt bitter when they left. but by a foreign player’ standard, those are considered “loyal” players to Arsenal. few foreign players would actually stay for 9 years in a same club, and spent the prime of their career with the club.
both of them left when they were 29, and had past their prime. so in a sense, it’s fair that, after giving the club so much in 9 seasons, they deserved the right to earn themselves a final big money move.
then there’s Bergkamp, Ljungberg, and even Pires. they didn’t just piss off when feel like it.
Hleb’s case is almost unique. cos the club have sold plently of players who AW felt couldn’t cut it. yet not many of them really pushed for a transfer when they were one of the core players in the manager’s plan and still at their prime.
so far, in AW’s reign, i can only think of Anelka, Cole, Flamini and Hleb. Petit, Overmars left when they were close to 30. Sol left because of his own problem.
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Thierry Henry’s arrival heralded three years when we won absolutely nothing, so I suppose you could call Henry a disaster signing as well. Could call him a loser as well, using the same criteria of trophies won.
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:57 pm
I don’t agree that it’s a “disaster of catastrophic proportions,” but I’m also not ready to shrug it off. Andez, I’m not sure I agree with your statement that the club has been able to move on after taking losses like Vieira and Henry - until we actually win something, the jury is still out on that. Hleb surely doesn’t have the same stature as those two or Pires (or even Freddie at his best for that matter) but he was certainly important to our offensive scheme. He’ll be a harder man to replace than Flamini, in my opinion. We’ve got our work cut out for us. But… Arsene knows. (Fingers crossed.)
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Actually Mazza, Henry was here only 2 seasons without a trophy - not 3. Let facts not get in the way of an argument though
And even then the crucial difference was the pummeling of an average of 26 and 22 goals in those two barren years. Proving he wasnt a complete chump.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:07 pm
You said three years.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Seriously, Hleb arrived when Vieira left and the team- led by the experienced members- went into a collective depression. Wenger was also exercising his frugal approach in light of the new stadium.
He came into circumstances alot more dire than Henry did back in 1999. He also did a cruciate a few months in.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:38 pm
All in all, if Hleb had really stepped up big time he would have won something in his third season like Henry did.
Nothing will stop Inter or Madrid from sinking when he gets there though. lol.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
seems like a prerequisite that new gunners have to be french for AW to be interested in them. serie a is such a low-scoring league. is there not a quality, young CB in italy that we could sign for cover?
i’m for hull tomorrow.
would be funny if TH ended up in seattle.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:00 pm
GOD WE NEED COVER AT KEY PLACES ON THE PITCH I BEG U BUY SOME GOOD PLAYERS NOT YOUNGER ONES I WANT PLAYERS WHO CAN PLAY NOW
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:00 pm
GOD WE NEED COVER AT KEY PLACES ON THE PITCH I BEG U BUY SOME GOOD PLAYERS NOT YOUNGER ONES I WANT PLAYERS WHO CAN PLAY NOW
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:44 pm
I also do not agree that it’s a “disaster of catastrophic proportions.” He will be missed though as losing two key players in midfield will affect our cohesion and continuity going into next season.
We probably will acquire someone who ultimately will produce more results than Hleib in the long run but we undoubtedly will be affected adversely in the short term. This would be a good time for Arsene to keep Gilberto as our starting DM in order to minimize the Flamini/Hleib fallout while slowly working in Vela, Walcott and our “New” midfielder.
May 24th, 2008 at 12:59 am
If Hleb is leaving the club…then it will only be after we sign Nasri. No matter what the agent says…..the only Wenger is not going to agree a deal on Hleb unless he has cover in his position. So I’m guessing that if the agent is confident that Hleb is leaving….then Nasri must be a done deal which will be announced soon.
I was one of Hleb’s greatest fans since he came to the club….but as Andez said…no one is irreplaceable..same time next year we would have forgotten all about him.
And yes I for one would like to see Diaby get an extended run in the middle of the park…..the guy has shown flashes of brilliance but never really got an extended run in the team…..next season could be the one where he starts shining. I don’t know if he is the ideal replacement for Flamini…but he does bring in strength and height and can also power his way into the middle and unleash shots…things which I felt were missing in the current midfield. Could complement Fabregas nicely.
Cheers,
Wayne
May 24th, 2008 at 5:39 am
Anyone know when the 08/09 fixtures will be out?
May 24th, 2008 at 8:05 am
I have to agree with Wayne. I would love to see Diaby get a run out. One thing i noticed with Diaby is he is not afraid to shoot. He lets loose on the ball. If he is on target, great. If not, he is at least letting the keeper know we are not just dribbling the ball into the box.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:11 am
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal/2008/05/24/arsene-wenger-clinches-deal-for-samir-nasri-89520-20427993/
May 24th, 2008 at 9:14 am
I don’t believe Hleb, or “handbrake” as he came to be known by London’s Arsenal supporters will be particularly missed. I’d rather he stayed, but let’s be honest his best position was always behind the front man and he’s often ineffective on the wings. It was only injuries that dictated he played in a 4-5-1 so he never had a future playing behind Adebayor anyway.
We will lose something in Hleb’s absence though, he holds on to the ball very well and pulls teams all over the place. He might not be on the end of a move or even the assist point, but he’s integral to the build-up play. But having said that, there’s more than one way to skin a cat. Walcott scored more and probably supplied just as many assists last season coming off the bench than Hleb did as a regular, so I think Walcott will step up next season and give us what Hleb couldn’t - although perhaps in a different way. A more direct way, and maybe that’s better - time will tell.
I doubt there’s anything Arsenal could have done to hold onto Hleb, or any player that wants to leave. Trying to block it is completely counter-productive, Wenger now has to figure out a way to try and get the best price and talking him up in the media, saying how valuable he is, is probably the only way of doing it.
May 24th, 2008 at 10:34 am
haha… “handbrake Hleb”… no wonder he “drifts” everywhere around the pitch, and now apparently towards Milan or Madrid…
For all the great dribbling and attacking play of Hleb, playing him behind the Striker is like wasting one of your striking position to a player who will never shoot even if there’s a open goal in the 6-yard box. I’m sure even a CB would have put a shot in given the same situation. His stats of only 11 goals in 3 seasons and only 3 this year despite a host of chances speaks volumes at his weakness. For all his talent getting the ball into a scoring position, he seems lost once there and needs someone else to finish off which exemplifies everything that was wrong with us in 2006/07 - passing too much in the box.
Still, i would love him to stay and being challenged by Nasri or whoever comes in. Wenger should ensure there is competition for places in every position to ensure no other player start thinking he’s indispensable.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:22 am
I think Walcott would work very well with someone like Patrick Vieira in midfield, somone who could gallop up the pitch and release him. With Fabregas being the focal point is it a bit different, he needs to play these five-ten yard passes to progress up the pitch. I haven’t seen a player- including watching Spain- who has worked as well with Cesc in that department as Hleb has. They were almost telepathic.
I think Nasri is earmarked for Hleb’s role. That’s a tough ask for the 21 year old, however we will learn more during the euros.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Did you read what Hleb’s agent said? To paraphrase, he said that if Hleb stayed he couldn’t guarantee the same high level of play. Basically he told the team that if they kept him he was going to play poorly on purpose. If taht’s the case, he can fuck right off.
Don’t get me wrong, I really like his style and he’s an amazing dribbler but that’s entirely the wrong attitude for any team, but particularly a very young team. I also think the team can find another winger who will score more than 11 goals in all competitions in 3 years.
Curious to see if Nasri is actually coming as well. I haven’t seen him play at all. Has anyone seen any actual games? I’m not talking highlights on Youtube, but actual games.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Fabregas is a master at targeted long balls - he will release Walcott just fine.
If we are getting Nasri, we should buy him PRONTO.
We should also get ONE more winger….we were one short last season as it was. So just buying to replace Hleb is not enough. I dont want to see Eboue fooling around at RM next season.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:46 am
It would have been just PERFECT if one could count on Diaby to play DM/CM.
With his height and strength, if he could put in a lot of hard running he would do a very good job. I doubt he can do the hard running part though.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:57 am
And Wenger better NOT start Gilberto this next season. This is his last year, he will just use it to get a bumper contract in Italy next year leaving us in the same position we are right now.
Sell him NOW.
May 24th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
This is potentially crisis time. You would think Fabregas and Ade etc would be well aware of these potential departures but yet they seem none the wiser until the transfer is basically official. There seems to be unwritten rule in the dressing room that transfers are a no-go area in general discussion.
That’s why Hleb’s departure could start a domino effect with Adebayor, Gallas, and even Cesc manoevering they’re way out of the club. Might sound sensationalist but that’s modern football.
Then we will be left with the ’sad’ Brazilian Gilberto, Senderos, Eboue, Denilson, Diaby, Traore, coming out with statements like ‘we have learned our lesson this year’, knowing that they’re living a charmed life being at a club like Arsenal anyway. Amazing how the average joe players are never unsettled. Is it because no one wants them?
May 24th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
I’m not sure Arsenal can count on Diaby either. Ever since he injured his ankle he has been almost constantly getting injured. Not only that, but like Fred said he doesn’t seem to be injured in doing the hard work. Definitely has the ability though.
May 24th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
After Hleb nobody else is leaving.
Fabregas loves having a CL team built around him earning 80k about to be increased to 100k/week.
In Spain he is still treated like a kid and neither Madrid or Barca will agree to pay him over 100k/week - even Barca dont pay Messi up to 80k, so there is no way they are going to break that for their former youth player.
So he aint going anywhere for another 2 to 3 years.
Adebayor is going nowhere.
Gallas is going nowhere - because no other major Euro team needs a CB right now. Gallas’ ego is too large to go below the Milan, Inter, Madrid, Barca level. And those four clubs are pretty much the only Euro clubs any quality Arsenal player can think of going to.
May 24th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
I agree Cesc is going nowhere. He’s different from Hleb. He’s the MAIN MAN. And he knows that.
it’s true players love big money, love medals. but plenty of players have earned big money, won medals. While at Arsenal, Cesc isn’t really collecting a small pay cheque neither, and we are not exactly a side which has no hope for trophy…. most important thing is, few players in this world can call themselves the MAIN MAN in a side.
And to be the main man in one of the top sides in Europe like Arsenal is not something Cesc will want to give up easily.
mention Liverpool, u immediately think Gerrard. Man U - Ronaldo. AC Milan - Kaka. And Arsenal now is Cesc Fabregas’ Arsenal. Yes, he could go to Barca, he could go to Real Madrid. But he just has to look at what happened with Henry. From Thierry Henry’s Arsenal, to Theirry who at Barcelona who couldn’t even start against Man U in CL semi.
Cesc can’t be that stupid.
May 24th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
I totally agree w/ #27 comments. “Handbrake ” Hleb is an apt nickname. I think he will flourish in the slower more technical Serie A. He could push Stankovic to the bench or replace Figo on the right.
Ribery confirms that Nasri is coming to the EPL which means Arsenal.
We still need to bring in a CB to replace Senderos who has now been dropped by the Swiss National team. I suspect Wenger will be using the training camp to audition players (Song, Diaby, Denilson) for the DM role before going into the market. Wenger has stated the he did not think Song was capable of doing 60 game in that role but he could surprise the professor. Makoun (Lille) is doing alot of crying but I don’t recall be very impressed w/ him in the CL against Liverpool. To be fair, no one from Lille impress at all.
Hull=Derby 2, the long awaited blockbuster sequel.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
do you people think that fabregas can play flamini’s role… i know he cannot track back that fast … but he can dictate play even from a distance… and he’ll mostly stay forward only since we play very high up on the pitch ( for our offside trap) and in case he wanders ahead we can use clichy as cover for him… and play diaby in a more attacking free flowing role .. i.e with him and fabregas interchanging roles over the match to confuse opponents… as fab and flamster used to do many times this season..
i think it can work since fab is not afraid to tackle and his timing isn’t that bad.. and his touch and ball retention is excellent.. only problem in my opinion is that he cannot track back fast..(like flamini used to)…. like during babel’s goal in the CL…
this could be a far more attacking option than the one we had last season
wat do you say people… ?
May 24th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
@ 39: why waste our most talented midfielder on a “menial” job - when he is one of the best in Europe? Fabregas should have LESS hardrunning jobs and more creative ones.
As for Hull, they will get the beating of a life time next season. I doubt they will reach 10 points.
May 24th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
i agree with Fred. Cesc an play a more defensive role, but it’s a waste. A player can only have that many energy in a match. to spend half of his energy on tracking back, it would weaken his ability to create play.
i feel that the more ideal sceniro for us to make the most out of Cesc is to play a 4-1-4-1 formation. an anchor man sit in front of back 4. with another central midfield partner to help out Cesc’s midfield defensive duty. and to just set Fabregas FREE, let him roam around the pitch doing the things he does best - create.
May 24th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
not reall ya menial job.. considering pv4 used to do it for almost a decade.. keane did it .. prob even beckenbeur and cryuff did it.. and i rate cf4 higher than even them.. jus that it requires another dimension in his job… could be great asset to the team..
May 24th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
@ 34 Not sure I agree with Mazza that Flamini’s and Hleb’s leaving will lead to an exodus. Most of our players - Cesc, Sagna, Clichy, Vela, Toure, Senderos, Walcott, Almunia, Ade, etc. - are talking up the club, rejecting transfer rumors, and signing extensions/new deals. Not to mention the fact that we have to be the club most often mentioned as the EPL team of choice by foreign players looking to move to England.
Every year a few players come and a few players go. For what appears to be purely financial reasons, those two have decided to leave. You can argue that Arsenal should have done more to try and keep them. However, the Club has a formal wage policy and they remain commited to that policy. Given that, there will always be a club(s) in need willing to one-up us on price for any particular player. It is just a natural part of the business. I would argue that, for the most part, Wenger has done a great job of creating a total footballing environment that has allowed him to keep the players he feels have a lot to offer.
I think it’s a good sign for Wenger and the Club that people are so surprised that these two left at such an early stage of their careers. Hopefully, it’s evidence that such events are a rarity and not the norm.
May 24th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
I’ve been saying for years that Fabregas could play deeper. He grew up being sort of a “mini-me Guardiola”. However, I don’t think him playing there is a good idea. Sure, his tackling is descent as well as his ability to still make an offensive impact from a deeper position but we need someone who’s more physically imposing.
People say that we won’t miss Hleb but I strongly disagree. Everytime I watch a game that we’ve played this season, he was at the center of just about every good footballing move that we did. That’s not including the missed penalty claims or the numerous easy chances he laid on for Adebayor to shank that he doesn’t even get credit for. When he wasn’t there, he was sorely missed.
That guy is a fantastic ball handler with incredible vision and guile. If the team needed an outlet, they all looked for Hleb. It didn’t matter if he had three guys on him, they’d give him the ball and he’d still manage to make something happen. Without that skill in the team, along with Flamini’s hard work, life just got twice as tough for young Fabregas.
A few years ago, I played CM in a team with this guy named Jimmy. I could play the #10 role but Jimmy was a natural there. When he was in the team, I had tons more freedom to make plays but when he wasn’t there, things were so much tougher. I got lots of credit for making stuff happen but we all knew damned well how much easier it was when Jimmy was on the pitch and I always respected that.
There’d be times against very tight defenses when I didn’t have an idea but Jimmy, normally with some 6′4″ German dude breathing down his neck, would be demanding the ball. I’d give it to him and I swear this guy would pull a rabbit out of a hat. Having that kind of option on the pitch, along with the excellent chemistry we had, can’t be undervalued by pointing out that he didn’t score as many goals I did. That’s bullshit, boys. Jimmy made the team play better (meaning we won more) and Hleb has that same effect.
Nasri can’t do what Hleb can. Hleb is with Maradona, Zidane, and Cruyff as far as ball skills go. Those guys are fucking legends. I just hope Wenger demands a proper fee for him to see how badly other teams want him. After all, he is still an Arsenal player and a damn good footballer. Regardless of him wanting away, if he has to play again for Arsenal then he’s going to, instinctively, do what he’s good at.
May 24th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
I still wish Hleb well. His brilliant ball skills have criminally been looked upon with curious indifference by the Arsenal faithful and frankly his talent is wasted on most of them.
I would love it if he went to Madrid and won the lot(hopefully not at the expense of us) and was granted the respect he deserved.
He might even score more goals with more link players in the Real team like Raul, Sneijder, and Robben. They might actually see his runs and give him the return ball, unlike Adebayor and Eboue.
Unique player in world football. Like a receiver catching the ball in gridiron. Guaranteed yardage.
May 24th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
@ 44: You could argue that Hleb’s ball control is even better than Zidane’s, but he is nowhere near as effective or intimidating a player. Both Zidane and Cruyff were far more complete and composed. Hleb’s game is nowhere near as well rounded. I not sure how you can even compare them. I don’t know if you can compare anyone to Maradona at his peak.
Hleb has a very nice touch and is always involved in the play, which helps us with our possession game, (a very important aspect of Wengerball). However, I think people are building him up a little too much. As I mentioned in a previous post, I think at the end of the year Theo was far more dangerous than Hleb on that right side. Theo’s pace atuomatically puts defenders on their heals. He is also better at stretching defences as he plays wider and is much more apt to take the ball all the way to the touchline for the cutback - we are going to see a lot of the Walcott to Ade on the far post highlights. As for Hleb, I can’t recall how many times over his first two seasons I heard Gooners complain about his tendency to dribble right into a mass of defenders at the top of the box. He was better about not doing that this year, but still did it far too often. It just creates a traffic jam. Sure he is able to maintain possession, but it never really leads to anything.
Also, I think it is too early to make judgements on Nasri yet one way or the other. There is no doubting the kid has talent and hutzpa. Let’s see how he does in this team and in the EPL.
May 24th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
LOL….like the presence of Raul, Sneijdger and Robben will suddenly make him to decide to actually shoot rather than pass. If Hleb would rather pass to the likes of Adebayor than shoot than I can only assume he will be less willing to shoot with better strikers.
Perennially unfulfilled potential is his destiny! Shame.
May 24th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
damn, DannyT on post 27 spoke up everything in my mind.
first to mazza, i think there are plenty of Arsenal fans do RATE Hleb, he’s surely not underappreicated.
there one point Danny brought up which is very valid - let’s face it, Hleb is at his best playing behind Adebayor in a central attacking midfielder role. to me, this is as clear as crystal.
yet with Arsenal today being probably the only big club which would still employ 442, that means most of the time his talent is wasted on the wing.
no doubt it’s a loss that he’s leaving, but it may not harm us as much as ppl might have expected.
there’s one sure thing with Hleb on our side - that’s we will never be a DIRECT attacking side. because that’s simply not his style. in order to play more directly, u need the team as a whole share the same mentality.
so without him, who knows? perhaps with a more direct player such as Theo, we would finally address one of the problems of us in recent years - that we have been too patient at times building up our attack.
Cesc clearly be able to be a more direct player, his long ball from time to time found Adebayor. Ade himself is a direct player. so does Diaby and Walcott.
so really, who knows how things would turn out?
May 24th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Better link players, not better strikers. Hleb would play the ball infield and then make a run in between the full back and centre back but his run would be ignored for the umpteenth time.
Apart from Fabs and Rosicky, the rest our midfielders don’t know their arse from their elbow.
May 24th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Andez, Wenger deliberately has moved from a direct game to a more possession game to play better in europe and get the best out of Fabregas. It’s all about Fabs. That’s why he loves Hleb. Take Hleb away from our team and Fabregas can’t get forward as easily. He can play the direct ball but you don’t want him doing too much otherwise we’ll slowly morph into Aston Villa.
Anyway, how successful were the long balls to Ade? All I remember is Ade leaning back and miscontrolling every single ball from Fabregas and pulling a stupid face.
Going back to the Hleb thing. I distinctly remember the moment during the Liverpool game at home(when Hleb was on the bench) when Toure looked to the bench and shouted:”There’s no one to f** pass to!” during that absolutely embarassing first half. Several fans picke up on that on matchday.
Wouldn’t have said that if Hleb was there.
May 24th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Nasri is gonna be a fucking legend… we will forget Hleb soon, believe me!
Although I wanna see a midfield with those two and Cesc together, but perhaps it’s not gonna happen… such a shame!
May 24th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
HLEB IS A POOR MANS ROSICKY
May 24th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
I know Mazza. not only to compete in Europe, but also down to the fact the new larger playing surface of Emirates, it’s more suit for a possession game.
Then we got folks complained about how we are not direct enough, or to admire how direct Man U have been.
my point is it’s not all doom and gloom that Hleb leaves, it may open up another alternative for us to allow us playing a more direct game when needed.
btw anyone knows anything about Nasri please update me. I m totally out of touch with anything outside of English game these days.
May 24th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Hleb, Hleb, Hleb. Wenger won nothing when Hleb was there and 3 titles and 4 FA Cups when he wasn’t. Hleb’s a good player, but also one who frustrated the shit out of a lot of Arsenal fans - especially when stuck out wide. In an awful lot of games he didn’t produce.
Arsenal lost Henry - arguably the best player to ever grace the Premiership, and guess what? They got better. So what if Hleb goes? Overmars was better, Pires was better, Ljungberg was better and playing in the hole Bergkamp was miles better. Other players can be better or as good as Hleb, I include Rosicky in that and Walcott if he takes another big step forward next season.
Hleb wanted out, Arsenal did nothing wrong - they paid him handsomely, he was first choice - Wenger could do no more to accommodate him. There is no crisis, how can you finish a season with 83 points and talk of crisis - losing just 3 in 38? Arsenal are quite capable of taking one step back and two steps forward.
If we lost Fabregas I’d be worried, not Hleb.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Oh yeah, we dont need Hleb to create space for Fabregas. Guess what? A fast intelligent player that can carry the ball at high speed will free up a LOT of space for the likes of Fabregas.
On the raw nights when the shit has hit the fan, you dont need an “intricate” player like Hleb, you need a fast, ball carrier - more of Babel, Reyes and Walcott type.
So enough with the FALLACY that without Hleb, Fabregas will be “lost” … LOL.
As so well said, Ljunberg, Pires, Vieira, Reyes, Henry, Cole, Bergkamp, Campbell, even Wiltord all did more for Arsenal than Hleb has.
Beautiful moves are pointless if your team still draws the game against a low league team.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
POOR MANS ROSICKY THAT ALL HLEB IS
May 24th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
What is it with your raw nights obsession? I seem to remember on a ‘raw’ night against Liverpool in the champions league Hleb dribbled past four players and would have got a penalty if the referee did his job properly. What did Babel do in those games apart from score a cosmetic goal? Zilch.
Where did Liverpool finish in the league with their direct winger Babel? Reyes can’t even get into the Athletico team? Having a direct winger who runs in straight lines doesn’t magically turn you into a better team. If that was true David Odonkor wouldn’t flopping all over europe. His raw pace wasn’t too effective on the ‘raw nights for Betis or Dortmund. LOL.
Watch Fabregas versus Liverpool without Hleb, lost would actually be a pretty apt description.
Watch Arsenal without Hleb this season. Once again, lost would be pretty apt description.
Arsenal losing two players in their peak and players- Hleb especially- an important part of the future plans of Arsenal and Arsene Wenger. Not fading stars that Wenger wanted to ship out like the ones mentioned. Arsenal, a team in perpetual transition’, is a pretty apt description.
May 24th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Stop with that ‘creating space for Cesc’! It’s not like we are not replacing him… Nasri is coming and he can do the same job, if not better than Hleb!
May 25th, 2008 at 12:41 am
Welcome back DannyT
; you havent missed anything. There’s one thing I’d like to add which has bugged me for a while - Maybe while its wonderful to have 3 playmakers in the team maybe its too much? Maybe the team doesnt need 3 flair players? Maybe there will be a style switch again or rather a “style tweak” where we continue with the posession game but can immediately switch to a direct (not long ball) but a ManU style if you may when we desperately need it. As for Ryan Babel — lets not even go there. All he won was a non existent penalty and scored a 4th goal on a one on one.
May 25th, 2008 at 4:34 am
My whole point is we have a much better chance to win silverwaware this season with Hleb as an Arsenal player that with him gone. We were DAMN CLOSE this year, boys. If he leaves, Wenger should get the right price for him. He’s not Nasri with potential or Henry who’s past his best. He’s a young man in his prime who’s good enough to walk into any team. He’s worth 20 million and if teams want him they need to put up or shut up. Not only is he good enough to demand that price but he’s too important to our team right now to lose for cheap.
Nasri’s got potential but I see him as cover for Rosicky or Fabregas, not a Hleb replacement. If you guys haven’t seen him play, he’s not good enough to walk straight into the Arsenal starting eleven. He’s a young buck who’ll need time to adapt to England and develop his game further. So can we afford to drop points to give him the time to adapt meanwhile? No! We are too fucking close to Man Utd and Chelsea right now to start over. If we can keep Hleb this year, even though we may lose lots of money on him next summer, we need to. He’s too important to our style of play. Who knows, Hleb may even sign an extension in the winter. Like I said, Hleb likes to play good football and that’s what Arsenal does.
May 25th, 2008 at 7:37 am
Sheed, I don’t think Nasri is carrying Hleb’s gym bag at this stage. Alot of Marseille fans are glad to see the back of him, and he appears direct, so it must be because he is inconsistent and frustrating. Not a player to come straight into Arsenal’s first team.
When people think of Nasri, they’re probably thinking of that moment thirty yards from goal when he picks the ball up and seems to have more conviction than Hleb, however Hleb’s real value is in pulling defenders and midfielders all over the place and slipping balls through using his 360 degree vision. It’s the most tangible intangible quality around.
I think he made alot of more of an indelible mark on this team than some of names other people have mentioned. Players like Bergkamp and even Pires did do alot more for Arsenal than Hleb but by the time they had left the team had learned to live without them. The only one that left a real void in terms of changing style was Vieira.
You can say what you like about Hleb but he was a MASSIVE part of the current style of play. Alan Curbishley said he was the epitome of this Arsenal Mark III and alot of other people would say that. He the magic dust in this side, not Cesc, even though Cesc is a better all round player and has a vastly superior mentality.
So, when he leaves, we will have to change our style again because there is no one like him on world football. It might be for the better in the longterm but short to mid-term I forsee big problems, regardless of how good Nasri may or may not be. Arsenal Mark IV could be about to start.
May 25th, 2008 at 9:09 am
a tangible intangible… that’s going to cost a team a lot to get Helb… what 20mil?
plus 360 vision… for a player with 360 vision alone.. that’s gotta cost a team an additional 20mil?.. then the magic dust… another 20mil?… so helb should go for around 60-70mil since there is no one in the world of football like him?
that would be a nice transfer kitty to have.. then we can get the players Cesc would like…
http://inside.nike.com/blogs/nikesoccer/2008/05/21/questions-from-the-big-night
May 25th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Cesc was humouring the dumbo’s in the audience.
May 25th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
I am not worried about losing Hleb; he is very talented but also very inconsistent. His greatest quality, holding the ball and dribbling, is not made for the fast pace of premiership. I personally think he is leaving because he wants his career to have longevity in a less physical league. Poor guy was getting bruised and battered week in and week out (Mark Noble, Lee Carsely, Essien come to mind), and after seeing what happened to Eduardo, he wants out. He is better suited to the Spanish game and less so to the Serie A. So he invokes the “I don’t like the big city” crap because he doesn’t want to say I don’t want to play in this league any longer…..
I personally believe that we will be better without him, because a big part of our game is based on pace, and he invariably broke our stride especially on counter attacks.
Nasri is a different player than Hleb and I don’t think is meant to be a like for like replacement. Samir is more like a true winger to me, a Pires or Ronaldo type which will enhance us.
I would also like to see Mario Gomez join us. He is no nonsense, strong and fast and a great finisher. We’ll see……
So again, Arsene is concentrating on bolstering our attacking options. If we don’t solidify our defense, we will most likely be in the same boat as the last two years…..but don’t count your chickens yet, I think Arsene will sign a defender or two before it’s all said and done……
May 25th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
I HEAR WERE LINKED WITH MARIO GOMEZ MAN I HOPE WE GET HIM WHAT A PLAYER
May 25th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
I can say it point blank that we will NEVER win the league with Hleb in it. First, pace and goals on the wings wins the EPL. With Hleb in there we can pretty much forget any hopes of Arsenal having a proper counterattack - or shots, or assists, or goals. Second, his “lose” aura is overwhelming.
May 25th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
@ 61: Its incredibly hilarious that you quote Alan Curbishley LOL. Why dont you quote Peter Taylor or Graeme Sounness as well? LOL.
May 25th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Anyone wants to make some prediction of the up coming EURO 2008? I will go for SPAIN.
i know i know, they are the seasoned bottlers in major tournament, but if any European country has been producing the most up and oming talents in recent years, it has to be Spain and Portgual.
with national teams sometimes it’s interesting, they often come along with generation - i mean, so often, a particular country would have some talented players emerged at the SAME TIME, and that all a sudden turned them into a force, even if they were a small nation. Denmark during the 80s, Romania, Bulgaria in the 90s. not to mention those traditional football power house, like Holland back in the 70/80s, France the late 90s, and England…. well, back in the 60s!
The Figo golden generation may have gone, but boy the Portgual’s future do look brignt don’t they?
But Spain… damn, they go so many exciting talent, to the extend that Fabregas not even be able to win a guarantee starting place… it will be interesting to see whether they could hold their nerve this time around and finally break their major tournament curse.
May 25th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Yep, Spain and Portugal and even the Dutch have alot of talent but all three of these have sketchy defences that get exposed when their offensive game breaks down, which after a long domestic season tends to happen around the quarter final stage. So I expect Portugal or Spain to look great in the group stage, throw in a flat performance, and get knocked out in disappointing fashion and anti-climactic fashion.
The more compact, less spectacular teams like France, Germany, and Italy generally pace themselves well in these tournaments and find a way to peak at the right time.
Out of those three, I’m going with France, with Nasri sparkling intermittently. The one concern with them is Vieira seemingly growing old overnight. He was great in the world cup. Will Toulahan hold similar sway in the midfield minefield?
May 25th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
IM GOING WITH SPAIN I THINK IT WOULD BE HARD EVEN 4 THEM TO MESS UP THERE JUST TO GOOD. COME ON FABS!
May 25th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
LOUD NOISES!!!
May 25th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
yeah mazza, a better defensive and organized side often has the edge in major cup tournament. it’s kinda sad, cos u always hope to see a more flair, attacking side to win it. yet apart from Brazil, and probably France in Euro 84, rarely did an attractive attacking side winning a tournament.
so my 2nd choice will be Italy. France i think they are in a transitional stage. while Germany, the tournament expert, seems to be lacking a bit of quality.
anyway, i don’t see a repeat of Greece - an outsider winning it this time around.
May 25th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
I think France are the strongest - in defense, attack and depth. While Germany have semi-home advantage.
But I will be supporting Holland as always.
May 25th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
I like Hleb, but I am not sure how he has been elevated to the level of this much discussion?!!
He’s a good player. He’s not even close to being great, like Vieira or Henry.
We’ll be pretty close to the same without him… but we should be trying to get better… not trying to tread water.
Need to bring in more than Nasri, and losing Hleb and Flamini, but its early… hopefully it will be just one piece to the puzzle.
If the player wants to go, Wenger will let him go… why keep someone who doesn’t want to be with the club? Detrimental to the team.
I wish Hleb (if he goes) and Flamini well… grass is often greener elsewhere, and then they miss what they had at the Arsenal.
Euro2008 - should be wide open
Italy will have a shout… I bet France will be in there too.
Portugal has good young players…. its wide open.
Should be good football for the Summer.
May 25th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
I think the 4 that made it to the semis in the World Cup two years ago will be there again. Italy, France, Germany, Portugal.
Spain are similar to England, they are such constant underachievers that it affects them mentally and they buckle under the weight of supporter expectation.
Usually an outsider enters the fray and performs well, and that team would have definitely been Croatia for me. But now Eduardo’s gone I think their blade has been fatally blunted.
The Dutch are getting on a bit, they’ve had to call up crap like Bauma, Boulahrouz and Melchiott, which speaks for itself.
May 25th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Yeah, my heart sank when I heard Melchiot’s name in the list. Oh well.
May 25th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
I would go with France… simply because they got Nasri in their team! lol
May 25th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
So it’s Mazza - France …. Me - Spain…. Sheed… France
come on u boys, stick ur neck out! tip one winner!
May 25th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Can’t help, I support France.
May 25th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
I would go with France, but they could slip up in what is a tough group. So Germany.
May 25th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
My prediction is Germany.
May 25th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
@Andez: Spain???? SO many times they have flattered to deceive…every major tournament…but well as you say its got to turn around some time. I’d go with Italy though..and still believe Croatia or Turkey will sneak a spot in the top 4.
May 26th, 2008 at 1:27 am
yeah LDE, i m betting on this is the time for them to turn around. even Spurs will rise someday, nobody can be bottlers forever! ; )
but important thing is i think Spain got a strong team. particular their spine. Torres, David Villa up front…. Puyol at the back… one of the best keepers in the world Iker Caskillas in goal…. and their midfield simply overloaded with talent. i cannot remember a better Spain side the past 2 decades, on paper at least. we will see if they r only the paper tigers.
neither Russia nor Croatia impressed me that much. England failed to qualify simply because they performaned even worse. both Russia and Croatia looked pretty average to me. and Croatia without Eduardo is a big big blow.
of course, personally i hope France to do well. Henry and Vieira no matter what we got a lot of affection on them.
May 26th, 2008 at 8:07 am
I came across this blog: http://www.football365.com/john_nicholson/0,17033,8746_3612316,00.html. “There’s no crying in baseball”.
This is why Hleb wants to leave English football.
It is too late for Gallas, he has the Chelsea way about him.
This is why Lampard will NEVER go abroad.
Did Robben get out before it was too late? Time will tell.
Anelka has at last found his dream team.
Diarra “panicked” when you consider his Chelsea roots.
Now we know why Obi Mikel acts like an immature punk.
Which England captain tried to grab a red card from a referee’s hand?
I am so grateful that Cole went Chelsea and got out of Clichy’s way.
Which came first? The chicken (Terry) or the egg (Drogba)?
Chelsea, the only team that tries to ‘gang-rape’ referees when decisions go against them.
You would be grossly mistaken if you thought that I was using the writer’s blog to attack Chelsea. After all, Chelsea cannot be judge to epitomize of what’s wrong with English football, can they?
Graham Taylor, a former England manager has launch a scathing attack on (http://www.goal.com/en-US/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=710696) “Capello’s Way”. Capello just got off the ‘boat’ and can not be expected to change the mental damage of 32 years of failure. Taylor who contributed in a small way to those years of failure should continue to give his expert opinion on the state of the National team. Compare his concern over the mental harm of being one of the seven expected cuts from the team with the above blog’s assessment of the English players’ mental fragility. Taylor got it right but for the wrong reason.
This is why Ronaldo, Fabregas and anyone else worth their salt will one day leave England. That leaves out that those who would make up that English ‘core’.
May 26th, 2008 at 8:17 am
John Nicholson had a lot of praise for the maturity of the German footballer in the above blog. John, there is always an exception even to the German ‘rule’ of footballing behavior and I will give you one name and date. 1982, WC semi-final, Germany-France, Uli Stielike misses his PK and I thought I saw a tear in his eye.
May 26th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Andez. I like watching France play, and they have TH.
But…
I’ll go with ITALY in EURO2008.
May 26th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
I’m taking France in the tournament myself.
Italy is actually my least favorite national team in the competition. I’m still pissed about the WC Final.
May 26th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
What? Nobody going with Greece? Haha…
my predictions
Group
A - Portugal, Czech
B - Germany, Croatia
C - Italy, France
D - Spain, Greece
Knock-out
QF1 - Portugal (w) v Croatia
QF2 - Germany (w) v Czech
QF3 - Italy v Greece (w - 11men behind the ball again!)
QF4 - Spain v France (w)
SF1 - Portugal (w) v Germany
SF2 - France v Greece (w - another 1-0 win!)
Winner - Greece (C.Ronaldo cries again!)
okok, in all seriousness..
QF3 - Italy (w) v Greece
SF1 - Portugal v Germany (w)
SF2 - France (w) v Italy
Winner - Germany
May 26th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Which Arsenal is Rafa talking about?
It’s more difficult because after two years of Chelsea winning the league and spending big money, United needed to do the same.
‘They started spending big money and Arsenal were also spending big money on young players. We are trying to do the same but because they (Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal) are continuing to spend big money, it makes it more difficult to catch up.
Wow. I had no idea that Arsenal were spending big money. I can’t remember which team splashed out more than 20 million pounds for Torres? I know it was not Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal. Hmm..also, which team spent 17 (or 18) million on Mascherano? I guess this is not big money. And is this the same Rafa that wanted to spent money in Jan to get players but was told he had to do the job with the players he bought in the summer of 2007?
Yeah it is quite bad that Arsenal are spending such big money. That is why Flamini left Arsenal. He could not bare to be paid so much money. He wanted to go play for less money, so that his head would not spin with so much thought of money.
May 26th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
> they (Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal)
looking at the article again, the teams mentioned after they are included by the writer of the article. So I am not sure if Arsenal were included in Rafa’s “they” but he does mention Arsenal and big money on young players.
May 26th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Spain to finally overachieve and win with their stockpile of talent.
Portugal to play fabulously until their attack gets stifled and some team thrashes them 4-1.
The Dutch as my sentimental underogs.
May 26th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Hey stag133, I talked up Hleb because right now he’s the one true player at Arsenal that can take over a game. Even on his off days, he was still better than most players on their best days. Honestly, how many players can you say that about? When he’s in the mood then he’s completely unstopable. People say that Fabregas was the main man this year; no, that was Hleb. If he leaves, Arsenal will be completely different next season.
I just read an article linking us with Cardiff’s Aaron Ramsey. I watched this kid come off the bench against Portsmouth in the FA Cup final and he was completely unphased by the event. He’s a very intelligent player who plays at his own pace, sort of like Fabregas. If we can’t get Michael Johnson from Man City then Ramsey would be a good alternative. Then we could sell Diaby and put pressure on Denilson to step his game up.
I mentioned Ricardo Oliveira last week but ctpa let me know he was still a Milan player who for some reason went on loan. Well, I just read that Zaragoza have bought him from Milan for ten million euros. I knew he was for sale and am surprised he stayed with Real Zaragoza despite them being relegated. In fairness, Zaragoza played good attacking football but their defense sucked and they just weren’t deep enough for the UEFA Cup and all the competitions they were in this year. Oh well, we missed out.
May 26th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
My heart is with Holland and France, but I think the more practical teams like Italy or Germany will take it.
May 26th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Sorry, Netherlands, not Holland.
May 26th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
ANY THOUGHTS ON THE USA ENGLAND GAME
May 26th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Croatia stumbles its way to victory.. with numerous 1-0 wins
May 26th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
I’m hoping the US Men’s National Team can get a win and heap more misery on England’s football hopes and dreams. I love reading all the “sturm und drang’ that comes from the pundits and the tabloids when England lose. Somewhere in all that noise you’ll find the names Wenger and Arsenal mentioned as the cause of all that is wrong with English football. If Walcott plays, I hope he has a great game. A 3-3 game with the US playing well would do it for me in the end.
I’m not particularly thrilled with the US roster. Bocanegra just got released by Fulham after being dropped by Hodgson before the run that saved them from relegation. Jay DeMerit was shite when Watford were still up and Henry made him his biotch. They’ve now added 34yo Hejduk at RB when they should have added Marvel Wynne. Nate Jacqua and Josh Wolff are both out of contract strikers. 31yo Wolff hasn’t done jack in a dog’s age even when he had a step which is now lost and never to be found. Why not bring in Jozy Altidore and get him in the senior team before WC qualifying starts. Grandpa (Eddie) Lewis is from Derby, yes, the one and the same record setting relegated club. At 34, he’s not stopping any England right sided attack. Eddie Johnson went to Fulham and fell off the face of the earth as he too was dropped after 1 or 2 appearances. Hopefully he’ll be able to adjust better in the new season.
Bradley will play 4-5-1 w/ Johnson as the lone striker and Landon “Goldenboy” Donovan in support. If Bradley is ’smart’, he’ll play Beasley at LMF and Adu at RMF to have speed on the flanks. He will instead start Dempsey at RMF and save Adu for the 2nd half. The keys for the US will be defending as a unit, no early cards for Onyewu (who lasted only 11 games at Newcastle) and Edu being involved early.
May 26th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Wenger must be incredibly frustrated. His new Arsenal team was being built around the intelligence of RvP/Hleb/Rosicky/Fab…… with Ade and Flam emerging as key components. Now as a new season beckons we’re under reconstruction. Hleb(?) and Flam gone, RvP and Rosicky lacking robustness. Looks a bit of a mess to me.
Perhaps RvP and Rosicky will display a new level of resilience? Perhaps Vela assimilates quickly? Perhaps Walcott makes more impact? Perhaps someone fronts up and does the dirty work that Flamini did so willingly?
Before anyone left I thought we needed a significant option to cover/challenge Rosicky and another for RvP/Eduardo. Now we have 2 other issues to resolve. For a manager who preaches continuity this must be an unwelcome kick in the teeth.
In my mind I keep thinking of where our season that has just finished came unstuck. And I ask the question - what will stop that happening again? It seems pretty obvious to me that for big patches of the season we lacked attacking options with goalscoring intent - and once Eduardo went we were running on empty. We fielded some of the most toothless sides I can remember under Wenger. Now we take that squad minus Hleb/Flam into this coming season.
I read the speculation about Samir Nasri, but how rational is it to place responsibility on a French lad of 20? Or a Mexican lad of 19? Shouldn’t these lads be simply back-up options for a couple of years until they adjust to the EPL - letting their games mature and harden?
You can’t expect boys to carry a side for extended periods in place of RvP or Hleb or Rosicky or Eduardo.
May 26th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Am sure Ferguson’s tenth title and second European cup will do wonders for Wenger’s ambition. Wenger is still stuck on 3 and 0…..after losing 3 euro cup finals.
Am sure he will want to at least reach 5 titles and 1 CL before he retires.
He will be slightly more ambitious and ruthless this summer.
May 26th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Barca have signed Seydou Keita, one of the many names linked to Arsenal.
http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=international_feed/08/05/26/SOCCER_Spa-Barcelona.html
May 27th, 2008 at 12:59 am
No big deal. Keita is already 28, and if Arsenal were to take another MF (assuming that the Nasri deal gets done) I’d prefer they pursue Yaya Toure.
@98, Two points: A) Nasri, if signed would probably make an immediate impact ala Sagna — I’m basing this on what I’ve seen of him. The kid has mad skills and has already been playing in the top flight in France for some time.
B) The ‘kids’, for most of the season, carried the club just fine. Why worry now? RvP and Rosicky weren’t around all that much and look at how the season went… and I’m simply not that bothered about losing Hleb or Flamini. How long have they been at Arsenal, and how much had they done up until this campaign?
The club will more than just survive. Losing Henry was a bigger deal. Wenger will come through… and don’t forget, those kids who carried the club last season are a full year wiser. HAVE FAITH!
May 27th, 2008 at 1:49 am
Ryecatcher, your comments contain the very reasons for my concern. Notwithstanding that I am in awe of Wenger’s managerial skill, I base my opinion on the evidence I see.
The team did do well for most of the season, but in Feb/Mar when the acid went on we didn’t. Our effort spluttered like a sprinter stumbling on the home straight. We couldn’t respond to the challenge - the cummulative impact of player injury and absences showed the cupboard was bare. We’re now worse off than at the start of last season.
RvP and Rosicky haven’t been around much for the last 2 seasons - yet they are first-choice in Wenger’s A-team. So when he does his playing strength assessment he counts them as first-choice - experienced big names from whom he expects a big contribution - yet they haven’t produced, they are unreliable physically and they give us an illusion of strength.
With Nasri - for me he may be an answer in a mature side but to think he can be looked upon to accept responsbility over an extended period in a young reconstructed side is drawing a long bow. It may happen, but it’s a long shot.
The last thing we needed is to have to replace 2 of the seasons better performers. Step back and think about it, Flamini performed really well for us last season and Hleb had a break-through year and actually contributed after 2 seasons of disappointment. Now we have to replace them.
The other thing to remember is that we got off to a great great start last season. There is no guarantee that will happen again. If we start slow, we may never recover to mount a challenge.
Perhaps you can outline who will replace Hleb on the right and Flamini in the centre of midfield.
Perhaps you can outline the strategy for covering for RvP and Rosicky if they have a 3rd season of injury disruption.
Perhaps you can propose who will replace Eduardo’s goal scoring acumen as another viable option in the squad.
And we haven’t even talked about ‘improving the squad’, just compensating for losses and known major risks.
When you stop and think about it, only 2 of the starting 6 in attack/midfield can be confidently penciled on to the team sheet - Adebayor and Fabregas. The rest are gone, going or recurring injuries.
This is a huge off-season for Wenger. Far bigger and more strategic than dealing with Henry going.
May 27th, 2008 at 3:34 am
@Kiwi…I have to agree with ryecatcher. I don’t think there is any use in getting worried or worked up when we have 2 months of the transfer window still to go.
Hypothetically , even if we don’t sign any one else (i’m assuming Nasri deal is done)..i still believe we have a good squad.
For Hleb we have a replacement in Nasri.We also have Walcott who can be considered as a first team player for next season
For Flamini we can make do with either of Gilberto/Denilson/Diaby. I’m sure the counter-argument would be that the 2 youngsters do not have the experience or the ability to hold the midfield like Flamini. But then again wasn’t Flamini a part of the same group last year.
For Eduardo we have Vela/Walcott (Eduardo was backup striker fpr the first half of last season. I think Vela/Walcott would also be called upon to do the role when required
For RVP/Rosicky..well they did have a completly injury disrupted season last year….and we still did reasonably well. If they do have a injury disrupted season again…nothing has changed. If they stay injury free…we have got ourselves a bonus.
And i have not even included the potential stars in reserves namely Traore and Barazitewho we can be reasonably confident of seeing in the first team next year.
More than anything else ..I would say that it was the mental block after the Birmingham game that ended our season in the league. Not squad depth. We had one of our worst runs under Wenger and still finished just 4 points behind the league winners. Once the pressure was off we started playing well again. I fully expect Wenger to tackle this issue in the break.
That said I always had the feeling that the season 2008-09 was the season in which Wenger expected everything to pay off. I think most fans are feeling frustrated precisely because the team did so well last year…ironical. I do expect Wenger to make 1 more established signing apart from Nasri and we should be set for the start of next season.
All the players you mentioned as critical in your post except Fabregas….either came in last season (Eduardo) or started playing well for us last season (Flamini, Adebayor and Hleb). and all because they were given the chance to take on the mantle for first team responsibility…..I will not bet against the same thing happening again. One advantage at Arsenal is all the teams play the same style of football..so if a reserve player is called upon to play..he will be ready.
Cheers,
Wayne
May 27th, 2008 at 6:42 am
So Wenger’s relaxed about the way things are unfolding? Diarra and Flamini leaving, Hleb going, RvP and Rosicky still looking ‘uncertain’. No. He’ll be spewing. The midfield under construction for 3 years has been screwed. It’s back to the drawing board. That wasn’t on the agenda. That’s not the ebbs and flows of football - that’s a significant pain in the arse….nal.
As for signing another 20 year old…….
This isn’t the EPL under 21’s, just compare the contribution of Sagna and Eduardo versus that of Walcott, Denilson, Diaby or Bendtner. It’s actual versus promise.
We don’t need to replace actual with more promise. That is not progress.
Sagna hit the ground running (amazingly) whilst Eduardo contributed meaningfully whilst adjusting. With Walcott, Denilson, Diaby and Bendtner we looked for glimpses of quality - a sign of things to come - we never EXPECTED them to take responsibility. It is TOTALLY different.
But hey, early days. Maybe Wenger will sign 4 significant players - 2 to replace Hleb/Flam and 2 to add quality like he said before anyone left. History suggests he won’t.
May 27th, 2008 at 6:53 am
A lot may depend on what “price” we get for Hleb. I’ve heard 16M in a few places and if that is true, it bodes well for more signings. But usually an unhappy player doesn’t fetch as much as he should otherwise.
May 27th, 2008 at 7:07 am
I’ve always been of the opinion that Hleb is more important than Fabregas to the current style of play Wenger has developed over the last three years. Both of them are the most important in the whole squad, but Hleb edges it in front of the young Spaniard.
That’s why I do not suscribe to his theory that all these players in reserve play in the same way and can come in and play Wengerball without much disruption or teething problems. Evidence suggests it is total nonsense. Without Hleb, Arsenal have served up some of the worse football I’ve seen from a Wenger side, in fact you wouldn’t have been surprised to see George Graham in the dugout after those performances.
Without Hleb, all that we have left apart from the thoroughbred Fabregas, are a couple of stars with scars, and flimsy new born calves with bandy weak legs who can’t even walk let alone have the dynamism to last from August to May with any sort of the required consistency.
May 27th, 2008 at 7:24 am
@Kiwi
I’m not saying Wenger is relaxed….all i’m saying it’s not a time to panic because Flamini and Hleb (possibly) chose to leave.
I’m hearing a lot of people say that Wenger’s master plan of building a midfield over the past 3 years has gone to pieces. Sorry..I don’t agree. If i remember correctly..Flamini only ever made the midfield his own last year. Rosicky is still at the club and will continue to be a part of the midfield if he stays fit. My only real concern was Hleb leaving….he is important….and that’s why Wenger has moved quickly to sign Nasri who is a like for like replacement. He may be young but he is certainly not a prospect….he’s been playing in the first team since a long time.
Flamini was never a part of the Wenger masterplan…he just took his chance when he got it. Hleb, Rosicky and Fabregas…yes…i do admit that the midfield revolves around them but we are getting a replacement for Hleb. So still doesn’t change too much.
The problem with a lot of us Arsenal fans is that we tend to underappreciate our young players…until they break through. Gael Clichy, Fabregas, Van Persie..now Walcott..Last year Walcott and Bendtner could not have been considered to be more than prospects. But there are times when they cease to be prospects and are first team material. In my mind…2 players turned the corner last season…namely Walcott and Bendtner. They have had their easing in period and will now be expected to contribute from next season onwards. You can’t keep treating them as propects for ever.
Let me put it this way…Assume Vela was not an Arsenal player who was sent out on loan…..and Wenger signed him this year for a fee of 7-8 million. A lot of us would be feeling a lot happier.
That said…Wenger is certainly not done with his transfer dealings….i fully expect to see one more experienced signing besides Nasri..most probably a DM.
@Mazza…..Like you..Hleb is/was one of my favourite players at the club..and I did see his importance even in the year he joined us. But I don’t agree with the way you have been giving him God-like status in your recent posts. I don’t know if you actually rate Hleb so much…or are just trying to prove the Hleb haters wrong. For Wenger to build this team completly around Hleb would be outright foolisness….and Wenger has seen a lot more football then either you or me to make such mistakes.
May 27th, 2008 at 7:27 am
Sorry rycatcher, Nasri will not make an immediate impact ala Sagna. Fullback is the easiest position to play. Midfield is another beast. Besides, Nasri is not an upgrade to Hleb like Sagna was to Eboue.
Last season, we started very strong with a fully fit squad, including our three midfield magicians. We’ve got to respect that. Another thing is I, personally, didn’t see Flamini in the same category as Diaby or Denilson but a step above them. For me, he’s always displayed a bit of intelligence even though he was frequently referred to as a headless chicken. He performed better this season than I anticipated but we still had Gilberto and Diarra if he didn’t. There were no worries there.
Lastly, Henry’s departure was not a bigger deal to what’s going on this year. You can’t just say “Oh, we lost a big player last year but played better so we can do it again”. It’s not that simple. In his last two seasons, the captaincy and injuries kept Henry from being the legendary invincible awesome Henry that we relate too. Those were his two worst years at the club and in those two years, he smothered and stagnated the rest of the teams attack.
It’s no coincidence that so many of our attacking players had their best seasons for Arsenal the same time Thierry left. The team needed him to move to see that they could win without him. The quality and ability was always there. That’s the point I tried to make to stag133 last summer. The only thing missing was the belief but that was installed during the preseason tournaments. Right now, we don’t have that same quality. Like some have said, it’s the beginning of the offseason. We all know what Wenger’s likely to do this summer. Let’s hope he deviates.
May 27th, 2008 at 7:42 am
Off topic a bit..but one thing we can all be reasonably certain of is there will be an injection of pace on both sides of wide midfield and probably upfront. One thing we were definetly missing out on this year. ..and one that could add a new dimension to our play next season
May 27th, 2008 at 7:52 am
Wayne, Wenger is re-designing the midfield - whether you agree or not.
Let’s look at the midfield……
1. It matters not whether Flamini emerged as an answer last season or 3 seasons ago. He WAS an answer. He partnered Fabregas well, he complemented the young master, he did the dirty work. Now Wenger has to find a new replacement either within or externally. Despite the dismissive attitude of some to Flam I don’t undervalue his contribution and the difficulty we have in replacing him.
2. Hleb wants out. He had emerged afte