I really want holland to win this tournament, the team as a whole reminds me of Arsenal though Van Basten is trying to instill some defensive discipline but after the years of Koeman and the De Boer brothers, the dutch have always exhibited defensive frailties. The dutch epitomises one-touch total football just like the Arsenal, no matter how badly they do overall in any tournament, thats the kind of football I wanna keep watching.
On paper Spain have the players to win it all, but like Holland in the past, always seem to stumble when it gets to crunch time. Maybe this time they will get it right with Fab playing an extended role.
Romania and Holland should not emerge from the “Group Of Death” where Italy and France must surely be the favorites to move on. However, this group could provide some surprises because none of these teams can afford to have a bad day against their opponents.
France on the other hand seems revitalized up front with the infusion of new blood and if they are able to consistently play tight in defense they have all the tools to make it happen.
As always, Germany and Italy will show their famed consistency at the International level and their ability to engineer victories in tight situations will hold them in good stead and make them viable contenders.
My dark horse here is Russia, especially if they can survive the group stages with Arshavin being out for the first 2 games due to suspension. Most of their players come from Zenit and Spartak and are accustomed to playing together which is a huge plus on this international stage.
As usual, I expect Portugal to shine in a few games with Ronalda, Veloso and Moutinho leading the way, only to blow up against an inferior side and be unceremoniously dumped from the competition.
Croatia without Eduardo, who accounts for some 37% of their goals, along with Greece (what are the odds of lightening striking in the same place twice in 4 years) should be part of the also rans.
Well, here’s a SHOCKER… RVP is not fit for the opening Holland match.
absolutely stunning surprise there…
This lad simply can not be counted on to beat the injury bug. Massive talent. Great skills… I hope he doesn’t play in Euro2008 at all.. just means he might not get injured there.
Looking to watch some good footy… I’ll support Italy … and watch France with interest for Thierry Henry.
Would LOVE to get 25 - 30 Million for Adebayor…. he’s not scoring another 30 next year, just can’t see it… but I doubt it will happen… and if it did, I doubt we would spend it all on players. But I can hope.
How about Hleb to Barca for Thierry Henry, and Ade to Milan… we buy Nasri… Rosicky comes back strong… we get a CB… and away we go?!
Yes. I know. Dreaming. Nobody comes back to the Arsenal!
Took Anelka 12 years to admit publicly that he should have never left at all!
I want France to win so that they can avenge the WC lost (where the better team didn’t win). Ribery needs end product and Henry’s sciatic nerve (where have we seen this before) needs to get right. Gomis and Nasri could be X-factors here because they’re young, hung and full of fun.
I think Italy will win because they don’t have any weaknesses even without Cannavaro.
I too think Russia could be the dark horse especially if Pogrebniak recovers.
Portugal and Spain have the flash and dash but I don’t think they have the mental fortitude. Why does Aragones give Fabregas the no.10 shirt, then start Xavi all the time. No skin off my nose. Deco did squat for Barcelona and Scolari thinks he’s the answer.
The Czechs without Rosicky are going nowhere. Ditto for Croatia without Eduardo. Ditto Netherlands without RVP. Too many teams need massive contributions from 1 or 2 stars. Turkey is an example of this: Kazim-Richards, Emre and Tuncay will have no one quaking in their boots. Romania is another w/ the clean and sober Mutu. Sweden need Ibrahimovich to show up big time and when was the last time that happened. Recalling Henrik Larsson and having Freddie (I’m old & on 80k/wk at WHU and I did zip) Ljungberg does not boost their chances.
The Germans are weak at CB and can be beaten by the ball over the top. The Germans could go all the way though if Ballack/Lehmann carries them.
Austria and Switzerland are just there to make up the numbers and be genial hosts. Lightening will not strike twice for Greece. Teams who bought Greek players after their Euro win saw no impact from them because it was their defensive system that won it.
Wenger is waiting for Galliani to call so that he can tell him: F**k You. There goes that 32mil and all the new signings that many had dancing in their heads.
I made a bet today… to guess the winners in all four groups… I picked Portugal, Germany, Holland and Spain
Other than Holland, the other three are realistic, but we will see, you never know in a tournament like this
For some reason, I feel like picking Italy to win the tournament. Cannavaro’s injury means they have no real leader (like in the mould of Maldini..) in the team, but they have plenty of good players who might play better as a unit.
In the past, I have picked Spain for plenty of tournaments only for them to mess my picks up. I am not going to go with them despite their talented midfield. And as for Holland, I feel they have their hands on their self destruct button again. With France, I worry where there goals will come from. Germany should get goals in their group but they will let some in as well. Still they should cruise from their group and I expect them to get to the semis.
Overall, I am just hoping for some good games and not 10 players behind the ball for 90 dull minutes.
in terms of performance, i think Swiss did better than Czech Rep in the opener. problem with Swiss was the lack of quality up front, Frei looks like out of the tournament with the injury he picked up is gonna be the killer blow to the host.
Czech was surprisingly negative against a side with inferior overall quality. yet they are quite well organized at the back.
as usual, it’s a disappointing opener. i think for us the Gooners in particular, after watching some good attacking football over the years, lot of matches, regardless of the level, seem like quite boring to us. at least to me personally.
on the back of my mind, i found myself always asking a question “why can’t they link a decent good pass together?” in truth though, i understand it’s never that easy, just that we are kinda spoilt by our football and thought that it’s easy for everybody to play good passing football.
yeah Andez, I think we are indeed spoilt by watching Arsenal’s game. I had to answer that yesterday when I claimed both games were boring, the opening one was bad and even the Portugal game was not that outstanding. Also, this is why I have been let down by the last few international tournaments as I compare the overall play to what Arsenal can do.
Arsenal has spoiled me forever. Thought the first game was boring and while Portugal produced some good ball at times in the second half it was interspersed by aimless kicking, few well linked passes and very little flair.
Andez / Sachin…
While to some degree, I agree… we are spoiled by our “style”… you are aware that the point of the game is… TO WIN.
We might play nice… but we haven’t been winning anything.
I would surely give up some “pretty football” for a trophy.
There are a lot of teams in this tournament and WC football… and for that matter, the EPL… who when you look at the talent level, can NOT compete against the BIG TEAMS (be it club or country)… not playing the fun football, the open game we enjoy watching. They have to play a negative style in order to give themselves a chance to win. It IS about WINNING.
Greece won a few years back… they didn’t do it with pretty football at all. It gives other minnows hope that they can pull the upset. Don’t hold your breath waiting for Arsenal type footy… Brazil isn’t in Europe!
But Stag, at the same time, Chelsea has won the league twice in recent years and Liverpool has won the CL once and been to the final twice and I’m not sure that I would take money to watch them play unless it’s against Arsenal. It’s the same reason I don’t pay much attention to Serie A - the games are generally pretty dour defensive affairs. I guess what I’m saying is there must be happy medium. For me it’s not just about the end product, but also how they get there.
The irony is that if I had started watching Arsenal earlier, I probably wouldn’t be a fan at all, but I happened to be able start watching soccer on cable when Wenger took over.
Stag, not exactly hadn’t won anything. 2 double, one unbeaten season, that’s “something”. As u said, a team playing with style rarely be able to achieve things like that.
we had won UGLY before under GG. it’s easy to say now we would give up pretty football for trophy. but when that really happens, imagne that, it’s a 38 games season, plus all other fixtures, have to watch football like that for an entire year in order for us to get a trophy in the end… well, maybe u will take it, maybe u wont. u have to “experience” that to know the difference.
right now, most of the fans (started supporting Arsenal under AW) hasn’t really experiecned stuffs like that yet. so you never know.
as for myself, i had been through the GG years. I really not sure if i can go back and watch that type of football, even if it means we can win a trophy or two. the thought of it is scary enough….
in fact, come to think of it, i blame Wenger. cos since watching his football, i know my life as a football fan will change forever. and worst of all, i know one day i won’t be able to watch that soft of football anymore, at least from the team i love. so my feeling right now is just like when i was watching Michael Jordan playing basketball - try to cherish every single moment. cos u know it won’t last forever.
i thought i was the only one predicting russia could go all the way… but that was before reading the comments here …
really think that the exp that they have to play together in the uefa cup together for the past few years is going to help them this time.. and i loved the way ashravin was playing against rangers in the final … in whatever little that i saw of him i loved his movement… reminds a lot of hleb…. and probably a bit more direct…
anyone knows where we can place bets here in india ( is it official) on russia … what are the odds… they could change a lot after their first match …
Most of the time Wenger’s Arsenal play aesthetically pleasing football but there have been plenty of occasions this season and in season’s past- especially in europe- that Arsenal have sent me to sleep.
This season I can recall at least five or six games- usually without Hleb and Fabregas- that we played at a standard similar to the game yesterday. What maybe made it even worse was that we usually looked totally unmotivated and disinterested for large parts as well. At least until the last twenty minutes anyway.
I found the game yesterday watchable because Switzerland played at a high tempo and that made up for the deficiency in technique.
man, if this season u got a few games that have had sent u to sleep, then imagine Arsenal one day does change manager and play ugly way to win as Stag put it, then u may have to sleep through the whole season!
feel for Austria, i felt they did pretty well today, consider this is a side if they had to play the qualifying around they would never stand a chance.
but England really have to take note - even a side like Austria, they still got some players technically very sound.
I think there is a grey area. Some of the George Graham sides played good football. I think Chelsea play good football as well when they want to.
As I said, alot of it is down to the attitude of the sides. A team with a good motivated attitude who play pretty basic football are more exciting than a technical team who look bored. The technical team reach higher standards but can frustrate because there is less margin for error.
Czech Republic were dreadful though and they played at a slow tempo which compounded the problem. Without Rosicky they are nothing.
Both Croatia and the Czech Republic will bomb in this tournament, along with Holland.
In fact, Holland are the perfect example of a team having direct ’stat’ players and yet still being a relatively poor team. Sneijder, Van Der Vaart, Van Persie, Robben, RVN, Huntaleer have all got impressive stats but because they do not have a Hleb or Fabregas type player who can hold the ball and change the pace of the game, they look clueless when they come up against a team who can manipulate possession as well as score.
I find this perception that they play attractive football a bit of a myth as well, partly because of the reasons I outlined above. Whenever they crash out of a tournament they always flatter to deceive both offensively and defensively.
Robben is their one truly world class player who could have carried them along but alas he as injury prone as Van Persie.
I don’t think one can expect an international tournament like this to produce Arsenal quality football. These guys get just a few weeks to practice together before the actual thing begins. Their qualifying games are interspersed between club games and they are exactly the ones we fear and despise because we don’t want our players to get hurt or anything.
Remember Arsenal, themselves, despite months of playing together sometimes struggle to produce the beautiful game when a few key players are missing.
but that’s exactly my point of being spoilt by Wenger’s football.
sure, GG’s Arsenal occassionally, though very rare, played some nice stuffs. And Arsene’s Arsenal occassinally, though very rare, had some off days as well.
yet because we been watching the brilliant passing football from AW’s sides, an off day would make u want to fall asleep. and i have to admit, one or two games this season made me want to fall asleep as well.
but think of it this way - if all a sudden we find ourselves playing the Chelsea way , or Liverpool way, or GG way tomorrow, when “boring” become a NORM, how folks are going to take that? by then, instead of fallen asleep once for a while, you might find yourselves sleepy MOST of the time.
look at the stamford bridge, why they had so many empty seats in CL group stage? because their tickets are expensive? as u said, Emirates aren’t cheap neither. There must be a REASON for that.
And why Emirates almost had a full house week in week out regardless of the opposition, competition?
i think it’s in a fan’s nature that everyone loves attacking football. we all put on a brave face during GG time that yes “boring boring Arsenal” but we don’t care. just like the Chelsea fans today do. but deep inside, back then I was wondering how on earth we couldn’t play like Liverpool, and i admired their quick passing football very much.
Wenger will leave one day, and this day will come. I don’t know if we will win more trophy with the next manager, but one thing i m pretty sure we won’t be seeing the same kind of football we been watching the past decade.
The new Arsenal fans (who supported Arsenal since AW took charge) have been living a fan’s fantasy dream, yet they don’t realize that just yet. Few fans in this world started supporting a team watching that soft of football, and have been watching that soft of football throughout his life as a fan. but that’s not really a REALITY for a regular fan of any other club.
one day, there’s a very good chance we will be just playing like your Liverpool, Chelsea. I really wonder how fans are going to react then.
Andez, it has nothing to do with league or cup format. It’s the amount of time for preparation. Also, you have to work within the realms of nationality. So your player set is fixed. Would Arsene be able to produce Arsenal like teams with (let’s say) only English or Germans players? I doubt it.
Andez, I agree with you. It’s hard for those who haven’t followed Arsenal pre-Wenger to appreciate the difference he has made. It’s like trying to understand another country without actualy ever having lived there - you can read books, watch 1 hour documentaries on TV but nothing quite compares to living it.
Some teams in the first half of GG’s tenure had periods where they played compelling football. The hardness of the defence, a good target man, and the work ethic was allied to some talented individuals. So when it clicked it produced some compelling stuff. But I think there was quite a difference between that and what Wenger has infused into the club. With Wenger it’s in the clubs DNA, with GG it happened spasmodically.
As time went by, GG’s Arsenal slipped into comatose. It became pretty woeful.
This new ‘young Arsenal’ project fits nicely with Wenger’s MO. It’s probably the main reason why he is still so engaged and challenged. The question is whether he can find the right blend to see it bloom. At this juncture the question I see is whether the transfusion provided by the maturing young players can offset the bleeding of experience.
For all those who say National teams can’t play good football I would recommend watching Brazil and Argentina now and previous Dutch teams.
It all boils down to the Managers and what they ask their players to do. In the 70’s, for a period of 4-6 years, Brazil were playing terrible football until their manager got fired due to fan pressure, not from lack of results but from the lack of “Jugo Bonito”.
Even France, Spain and Portugal will play very entertaining football when they put their minds to the task, and please don’t tell me that many countries do not have the talent to do so.
The only reason the Arsenal stadium is filled every week (and paying the highest ticket prices) is due to Wengerball.
Wengerball is also the SOLE reason Wenger has not been sacked and is the only reason the majority of fans havent called for his head.
It is one thing to be used to your team playing all humdrum….you are numbed down to it and you push your love for the club to overcome it. It is a COMPLETELY different thing to be used to 11-14 years of Wengerball and then going back. Hell no, that wont work.
I would take good football with a trophy here and there over rigid footie anyday.
Life is about the journey not a destination. So is football.
A trophy will make your week for sure.
But beautiful football over 38+ games brightens up 38+ weekends or weekdays. A nice spread over 9 months. If there is a trophy at the end - that is a perfect climax. If not, the journey continues.
I will take that over the hollowness of cheering over a trophy for a day after 9 prior months of numbness - waking up at 8 am on a Saturday just to be sent back to sleep in frustration or even anger.
No surprises yet. The favorites have won and the underdogs have not even scored in four matches.
http://www.skysports.com/football/match_reaction/0,19764,11065_2925782,00.html. What game was this S***s supporter watching. Modric was largely nonexistent after the first 4 minutes. At 16.5mil pounds he’s looking like a real ’steal’. When he was on the ball, he showed no strength in possession and didn’t really managed the game like we’ve come expect from our MF. No refunds allowed.
Gomez has got to score that goal. Poland’s D didn’t get a clue after the Gomez miss and come back and get clobbered on another through ball.
Milan gets permission to speak to Drogba is the word today. Senderos is singing “say a little prayer for me”.
Daily Mirror reports that we flew Ramsey on a private jet to speak w/ Wenger in Basel. That tops a lame phone call from Ferguson who is too busy roasting himself on some beach. Arsenal and Wenger turning on the syle and panache to win the day. Hope that makes the difference despite what Cardiff want. Next week comes the big decision-boyhood favorite (ManU), Cinderella (Everton) or the big city (Arsenal).
Ronaldo is reported to have a complaint about the constant rain in Manchester. I didn’t know Reyes long lost twin had been found and he’s just as lame.
I watched some of the Brazil v Venezuela game (0-2, that right, 0-2). Diego was Brazil’s best player when he came on in the 2nd half. The man is quick, agile and can make pinpoint passes. If Nasri (like waiting for Godot) can give us half of Diego’s skill I’ll consider it money well spent.
WTF is up w/ Balotelli. He’s still in diapers and already wants a new deal after just getting out of the youth team. Now that’s chutzpah. He wants Pato money. Trust me on this, he’s ok but he’s not Pato who is already better than 90% of Serie A strikers who go by that alias. Balotelli is supposed to have said, “I feel nothing for Inter”. Now that is some cold sh*t. He must have said that after meeting Mourinho
Mexico v Peru at Soldier’s Field (1900) 6/8/08. Hope Vela shows us something tonight.
Funny how Chelsea and Lilypool subjugated their fans to DIRE shit for the majority of the season - and yet still won as much as Arsenal LOL.
Sure teams must always strive to win but the “fans” - who would rather we stopped the good football to “increase” our chances of trophies - have serious self-esteem issues. Such that they need to feel success through association.
From a logical point of view a trophy does nothing for the fan - as an individual. Sure you are happy for a couple of days but after that its over. Trophies mean more to players and managers - because its their profession not just an emotional thing.
But a lot of so-called fans like the association with a winner - as it masks their personal hollowness. For those sort of fans its all a self-esteem issue.
@ 32: To be fair to Modric, not all players can perform in every single game - so you cant make a conclusion on him based on that.
In my view a great player is the player who steps up in the crunch games when it matters. Austria dont matter in any way whatsoever. Zidane always used to play like crap against teams like Lecce and Torino .. LOL.
Lets see what he does against Germany and in the quaterfinals upwards before mocking Spurs.
At some point Spurs are going to get it right. And Ramos isnt exactly a dummy.
When I started watching GG football, I never complained about the style. I even spent most of the 90’s watching Serie A games week in week out, even if some games didn’t produce much attacking soccer. But my views have changed after the last few years. Now, if I watch non-Arsenal games, I don’t enjoy it if both teams play negative football for 90 minutes. I understand most teams try to play & win to the best of their perceived abilities. Greece won Euro 2004 the only way they could have, otherwise they would have taken a beating. I know may Greek fans who were thrilled at their team’s performance in 2004 and didn’t care for how they played because Greece could not play like Brazil. They just didn’t have players with that technical ability. But I get frustrated when Chelsea and Liverpool play the games they do with the talented players they have. Their players can win games with a more attack minded style, yet the players are held back in a rigid framework.
I liken my taste for football now as to film genres. Some people only watch certain genres (horror, sci-fi, etc) while some will see any film if it is good, no matter what genre. Previously, I used to watch any form of football. But now, I only enjoy watching a limited form of football. I will still watch any Arsenal game, even if sometimes they may not play great because I have a vested interest in how Arsenal do. But if two teams are playing null soccer, then I find it difficult to sit through.
I agree with the theme that we are spoilt by the sheer continuous quality of Wenger’s teams. We are on a drip that feeds pure football into our sporting souls. But it’s not an either-or proposition. A club of Arsenal’s stature is there to win. Ultimately we need to win. No one has the right to demand a win in a particular comp at a particular time but winning something regularly is critical.
We are ‘up there’ in every way with the footballing elite and the price is success.
The beauty is that we aren’t that far away. We don’t need a major overhaul, or mega bucks, or a mega name. We just need to ensure that we support this talented squad with enough depth and experience so that we don’t fall just-short continually. And so that the really super-talented players (or even the talented ones who break-thru) don’t dribble out the door each off-season.
Fred, what’s the difference between winning a game and winning a trophy? Both evoke feelings of satisfaction, although obviously a trophy brings more contentment than winning a game most of the time. If winning means so little to you and it’s “all about the journey, peace out man”, why do you get so irritated by Hleb not shooting and trying to create passing moves? Surely, going by your logic, winning a game is just as insignificant as winning a trophy?
And can you explain where somone said we should change our style of football?
“I would surely give up some “pretty football” for a trophy.”
I on the other hand strongly want us to win the trophies…BUT only on the back of the Wengerball. I want the trophies but I want to be entertained almost every weekend over a 9 month period.
Is that understandable to you??
PS: Not every single topic in the world is about Hleb, you know.
Hleb is an utter, comprehensive and profound loser and that is exactly why I want him out of Arsenal. I want Arsenal to bring enough trophies here and there
WHILE still playing awesome football.
If a player like Hleb sticks with us we wont win anything and Wenger will eventually be kicked out - meaning the END of Wengerball. And the hiring of some lump who will plump us back to the DARK AGES of kick and rush football.
Not really, Wengerball will be a loss….but if we hire a progressive attacking coach that places emphasis on passing and speed as opposed to lumping, then it will still be entertaining enough.
Someone like Pat Rice will be perfect. He is a passive Wenger-clone and understands Wenger ball inside out. He might be too old though.
Dennis Bergkamp or some Dutch coach who favors all out attack like Rijkaard or Van Basten could work as well. Yeah Rijkaard might seem like a dud now, but when he joined Barca they were a shambles and he aint any more naive than Wenger anyway.
No to Tony Adams or any other English coach though!
Steve Coppell had balls to play attacking game with a team like Reading… not all the English managers are defensive minded
Rijkaard is shit, he had success at Barca only because all the players he had were at their peak… Ronaldinho, Xavi, Deco, Eto’o, Puyol, Belleti, Marquez… now when they started to lose form we can all see his real qualities
Rumor hasit that Viera is no wanted by Inter and Mourinho is ready to let him go for about 4-6 mill. Who would like to see Viera back at Arsenal for a few years to mentor the young guys?
Vela sparkling in a 4-0 pasting of Peru. Playing CF, he scored a tap in when the GK misjudged a ball over the top. He also had legitimate PK claim denied when The GK brought him down in the box (? referee mercy rule since the score was 4-0). He also rounded the keeper and side netted what could have been the 5th goal. I think we’ll see moments of brilliance as he develops and adjust his game to the EPL. Similar to Project Walcott.
CaribKid, with Vieira it depends on his attitude.
He hasn’t played a huge number of games in Italy each season so his body is showing signs on ageing.
If he was happy to sit back and play foil to Fabregas and shield the back 4 he could do a valuable job and let another player ease into the role on a part-time basis. Good height so would help at set pieces. Could solve the captaincy issue too
@ sheed 41: Rijkaard isnt shit. Barca were in the wilderness in those days before he came in and he completely revamped their style of play. I used to watch a lot of their matches then and there is a major difference in their style of play from the 02/03 season and the 03/04 one.
Ronaldinho cited him as the reason he joined them rather than Man U and Eto’o and Deco joined the next year after the foundations had been built. Lets also not forget that he has NO control over transfer signings.
I also liked the way he took the Dutch team to the Euro 2000 semis. The style of play that is.
Lets face facts is record is not that bad. I mean Wenger has just completed 3 seasons without a trophy !!!!! That doesnt make Wenger shit does it??
Anyway I think attacking coaches have it much harder. Because they have to concentrate on both playing good football and winning…..so I always cut them some slack. The same way I cut Wenger some slack.
Look at Van Gaal coach of that classic Ajax team…..fell flat on his ass with Barca and Netherlands. Even Wenger got Nancy relegated way back.
For an attacking coach when it goes wrong it really goes wrong. Cut ‘em some slack. Its much easier to be a defensive coach for sure.
Vieira is old and injury prone. Plus he is not going to magically decide to come down from his 120 K/week wages to come to Arsenal.
The only ex-Arse player I want back is Pires! Physique was never his strength so he hasnt lost much with age. Plus he is not on a very high wage at Villareal anyway.
Coming to think of it Pires will be an excellent signing. He still has it. He still has the same speed as he did 10 years ago - not that fast mind you.
But he still has unfinished business at Arsenal too. Wenger made a MASSIVE blunder removing him in that final - instead of Ljunberg or even Hleb.
Plus he will come on a free transfer and will probably accept the 40-50k/week that he gets at Villareal.
We can hand him a one year contract with the option of a year by year extension. He will then give walcott and hlebs replacement valuable time.
I loved Pires too Fred, and I thought Wenger made a poor call in letting him go. He was a natural to ‘do a Bergkamp’ and keep contributing on a diminishing basis. At the time Wenger thought he had Reyes, Ljungberg, Hleb, RvP and Rosicky came to replace him…..so he thought he was well stocked.
But at 35 the goals have gone and our opportunity too. It’s too late for Super Bob.
Vieira on the other hand is 31 (nearly 32) and has more to give. Sure he won’t play 50+ games but then again we probably don’t want him to clog up the role - better he contributes say 30 games a season in tandem with a Song.
Yes, the attitude is the biggest hurdle. He is a prima-dona in his own way. He has achieved so much and accepting a lesser role (and pay) wouldn’t sit well. So all this is fantasy. Just like every other transfer topic that has been discussed recently!!!!!! LOL
Viera actually started to look like his old self at the end of the season and would provide some height in the midfield, allow Song to grow into the DM role and provide some more steel along the line.
Would he take a pay cut to come back home, or would Arsene want him back? Who knows, but it would be a nice short term solution.
I know what Vieira was, and I wouldn’t expect him to be the same, otherwise he wouldn’t fit with Fab.
It is precisely because his old storming box to box days are gone that I think it could work. That’s why I said he could sit back and sweep in front of the back 4 and support Fab. It could work in theory, it would extend his career and he could earn more trophies. Alas, Vieira is a ‘big man’ and any change would need to apeal to his ego.
Arsenal aren’t broke, that’s not the issue. It’s Wenger’s vision for creating a ‘young Arsenal’. He has this project and wants to go down in history for it. Look at what has happened. Arsenal Mk II has been dismantled in record time. And every new signing is a babe interspersed with an occassional Eduardo. It’s bordering obsessive.
Yeah, but Vieira was the essence of the Mk2. Wenger bringing him back will be the white flag of defeat. Pires on the other hand could be the Bergkamp who transcends various versions of the team.
Besides a slower, less mobile Vieira doesnt work. We need a flamini-type terrier beside Fabregas. Vieira is too old and too experienced to be doing terrier work for a 20 yr old Fabregas.
The Flamini terrier type worked well with Fab, no doubt. But I think Fab is a complete enough player now to fit with a number of styles of midfield partner. Fab isn’t a fancy-dan that needs protection, he can hold his own.
That said, the one type I think we don’t want is ‘the Gilberto’. I never warmed to his play. With Vieira it was ok, cause Vieira gave the partnership the ‘fire in the belly’. But Bert is just way too passive to complement Fab, he just doesn’t bring enough to the table. Too much pressure would be on Fab to be the enforcer. And we would all be screaming again for a big imposing midfield player - interesting how those complaints faded with the success of Flamini.
thks Sachin, Fred, Kiwi. u guys understand where my main POINT is.
Like Sachin said, when i first started watching Arsenal, and the GG football, I didn’t complain much neither. I love the club, and would follow them with whatever style they play. besides back then, as a kid, i didn’t know much of the difference anyway. apart from the fact i did feel Liverpool’s football was far more enjoyable to watch than us at that time.
but the KEY point i m trying to say here is what Fred pointed out there - “It is one thing to be used to your team playing all humdrum….you are numbed down to it and you push your love for the club to overcome it. It is a COMPLETELY different thing to be used to 11-14 years of Wengerball and then going back”
i know there are ppl would still disagree. yet as Josh like to say - TIME WILL TELL.
my whole orginal point is not to say apart from Arsenal, other teams are all not watchable.
i just simply point out how i feel - that personally i feel being spoilt. That the Wengerball has really changed my concept of football forever. Had i never experienced watching that kind of football season in season out, I would not feel other matches are boring. but the fact is I HAD EXPERIENCED that kind of football for a decade. so that makes very hard to go back.
it’s not really about preparation or whatever else. what kind of football we saw on the pitch mainly relied on the manager’s mentality. Arsenal were not able to play the way we play from the beginning. class of 98 surely was a bit different from class of 2004. those give and go, pass and move takes years to perfect it.
but most significantly, not too many managers’ mentalty today is to play the beautiful game the beautiful way, or else Wenger would not be criticized for playing beautiful football yet failed to win trophy.
surely Brazil still play the great game, but that’s in their blood. not many other teams can say the same today.
The TROPHY Vs GOOD FOOTBALL thing, here is my personal view:
In terms of international football, my team is always Denmark. The reason is simple - because that awesome side of them in the mid 80s, in particular 1986 World Cup.
Denmark had actually went on to win the EURO 1992. While the 1986 WC side were trashed 5-1 by Spain in the round of 16.
but in my heart, that 86 side will always be a special side. because their football were so lovely.
and i m not alone. whenever ppl mentioned the great Danes of yesteryears, inevitably we would hear ppl bringing up that World Cup 86 side. They were the legends in Denmark. despite failed to WIN anything.
a lesser 92 side had done magic and won the EURO 92, but they are not held as high a place in ppl’s heart as the 86 side.
it’s the same with Holland of 70/80s. They too failed to win anything. but till today we would still hear about the “Total Football” of that Dutch side frequently, as for the sides actually beat them to win the World Cup - Germany and Argentina, seem like fading away under their shadow as years move on.
I can understand why Wenger let Pires go. He did look physically shot at times during that last season at Arsenal and looked a shadow of the player he was. He rolled back the years a few times like Juve at home but in general I was in favour of his sale.
However he has surprised me with his form in Spain and he would have been useful to keep for a season or two, more so than Freddie. However, I wouldn’t buy him now. He’s only scored three goals all season and so he won’t add that scoring touch that was his real strength.
Plus, Wenger was spot on taking Pires off in that final. When your down to ten men you don’t want Pires shuffling about not being able to close people down, which was something he struggled with in that last season. Both Hleb and Ljungberg- especially Ljungberg- did a great job of harrying the Barca players in that final. Hleb still had the energy near the end to make a surge and put Henry through on goal, but of course Henry missed.
i agree. AW’s decision to take off CL was something probably every other manager would do. when u r down to 10 men, u want more hardworking player instead of flair.
pires is someone who can play until mid or late 30s. his game apart from flair and skills, it’s more about his head - one of the most intelligent players i seen over years.
as for Paddy, i think the reason AW let him go was mainly because of his knee. very much gone by then. Paddy had been carrying a knee problem for years even before he was sold. not suprisingly as 9 years hard battling in central of field in the Premiership was bounded to take its toll on the players. in other word, he would never be able to give u a full season no more.
wanna talk a bit of Germany. in recent time it was probably the darkest days in Germany (national team) football. they didn’t have any real star like the old days.
2 years ago in the World Cup, we saw some promising youngsters emerged, but not there yet. Watching their first game Vs Poland, i sense that this side is about to turn into a real force. i like their full back Lahm in particular. in WC 2 years ago he shone as a left back. Now he’s playing as a right back with equal efficiency. i don’t recall too many players who’s able to play in the both full back positions with equal effectiveness. An unique talent.
@61. that’s the worst part of a take over. They are mortgaging the club in order to buy it. putting all the loan debt into the club instead of themselves. In other words - only one true winner when a takeover happens - the previous shareholders who grab the money happily and go home.
i wonder WHEN the bubble will brust. it will definitely brust one day, and it’s just a matter of time to me. cos there’s only one League Title each season, and 4 CL places. the money the clubs’ spent are less likely to match the actual reward they get. yet in order to push for getting the things they want in return (trophies), clubs would inevitably be spending more and more. that can only lead to one eventual outcome…. it’s only a matter of time.
“Hleb is currently on his honeymoon, apparently, but I’m told things aren’t going well. As soon as he gets near the box he freezes up and tries to get someone else to finish the job. Honestly though, this is as tedious a transfer story as we’ve ever had.”
classic! If only Arsenal players act the same way on the pitch as off it, then:
1) Lehman would be shouting at his wife every morning when she steps on his toes in the shower
2) Gallas would be crying outside of the bedroom when his wife refuses to make love to him at the last minute after foreplay for 90-minutes
3) RVP would be talking about what a great lover he is in bed but has been injured “prematurely” half the time
4) Adebayor would take about 10 tries to “get it in” when his woman has been “wide open” and already naked on the bed
5) And most Arsenal players would be some of the best men at courting and charming the ladies, put on a beautiful display, but only for someone else to take the lady home at the end of the day!
I dunno when the Liverpool bubble will burst, but I have a hunch that the ManU bubble will burst shortly after Fergie retires in 2-3 years time. Fergie is only concerned about his own legacy and is now on the same side as the glazers who will want to win at all costs. Don’t be surprised if Fergie buys another 3-4 £30m world class players over the next couple years and bring even more debt to the club.
The sad thing is that most United fans don’t see this and supports Fergie’s endeavors for this short term gain and a potential lethal long term consequences.
as for Liverpool, i saw a report saying their supporters being protesting that their chairmen have now got themselves into a finanical mess…. but not quite remember they protested of anything when they signed Torres for big bucks… what do they expect?
as for Fergie, he couldnt have cared less whether Man U got broke or not. David O’Leary never complained when he got load of cashes to spend back in Leeds neither.
come to think of it, i don’t know why Wenger even bother about Arsenal’s finanical situation and been spending carefully? in the end, not only no one appreicated that (apart from the board of cos), and ppl actually BLAMED him for that. he could have easily asked the board to SHOW HIM THE MONEY, give him 50 mil to spend every season, or he would leave, i bet the board would still support him with that kind of $$. just raise the ticket price higher, they would get the money back anyway. in the end it’s just those bloody fools who actually LOVE the team that suffer.
why Wenger even bothered to do the right thing yet in the end not being appreicated?
that was some performance from the French!! all those hype of their big name youngsters, if this is meant to be a shop window for them, i afraid it’s not looking good.
What an absolute rubbish game. The second half anyway coz thats all I watched. Benzema, the hugely overrated Ribery, the even more hugely overrated Malouda and a dead non creative central midfield were all terrible. They dont call Claude Makelele the assassin for nothing. He’s a brilliant footballer but one of the sneakiest dirtiest foulers you will see. That kick at the thigh at the end of the game was disgusting to see…seriously. Why do they do that? I’m not betting Italy - Holland is gonna be any better..seriously. Its going to be an absolute drought with a 1-0 at best to someone. Italy are painful upfront and Holland have so many injuries that I cant see them doing well. Who’s starting at centre back?Andre Oojier and Johnny Heitinga? or fat Bouma..or Melchiot? Oh dear…
so far Germany being the most impressive side. against Poland in a international “derby” game, they actually took the game to Poland from the start. a suprisingly positive approach from a traditional calculative side.
i dont know much about the French’s individual quality, if papers are to believe, they are all world-beaters. yet as a team, they were awful today.
got a hunch the Holland v Italy match will be a better game. now they knew France have dropped points, a win today will be a hugh boost to their qualification hope.
haven’t seen the French game but I was expecting it to end 0-0. France have been awful under Raymond Domenech but since they made the 2006 final, all was forgiven.
best performance (Holland) so far by miles. good football, hard working, the total football days may have gone, but this side still can play some nice stuffs.
this italy team just have the mentality that i really hate.
why play THREE defensive midfielders in front of defense???? geez!!
i consider teams that play as much as 2 DMs too defensive, but italy always find a way to top it.
and even when 2 down they didnt bother to sub any of the 3 DMs….only replacing the forwards.
@72 spot-on correct. Infact I’ll stretch it a little and say france have been terrible since after their last euro triumph in 2000. I dont understand how Domenech has managed to remain all this time as coach (getting to the world cup finals not withstanding). If france was an African nation we would have sacked him long ago :))
I think Portugal also played two CDM’s infront of the back four, with Pepe being the main holding midfielder. The difference was Pepe was a box-to-box player and scored “both” opening goals and generally attacked when he had a chance. The Azzuri CDM’s didn’t join in the attack leaving Toni isolated upfront and the LF/RF’s chasing long balls into the corner flags
Really glad to see RVP getting some game time and he has a couple good runs at the goal. Hope he’ll stay fit and hope he can win it!
Yikes, heady stuff this off-season……30 days of boredom. With pants-wetting excitment provided by tales of 17 & 20 year old super super players coming…..or maybe not.
Glad Wenger has something to occupy himself with, passing erudite comments on the Euro’s.
@Kiwi: Ease off a bit. You’ve been really uptight this off-season IMO. I’m sure AW will do something - after all he himself has acknowledged the frailities. Then again Song just signed a new long term deal …..
Just when you write off the Dutch, they produce a sparkling display. The second goal was a classic. Sneijder and van der Vaart both can play football, are pacy and know where the goal is. Sound like Arsenal footballers.
@kiwi: Depends on what is good news. There hasn’t been anything bad happening either you know…unless u count the Flamster leaving, IcecreamGate, and a speculative Nasri signing.
Kiwi, the good news is that there is no bad news (LOL).
Engelaar, Sneijder, Van De Vaart, Van Bronckhorst and Van Der Sar all played magnificently for Holland and the man of the match must go Van Bronkhorst who at 33 displayed tireless defending and attacking. Van B made a goal line clearance at one end, sprinted 2/3 the length of the field and delivered the perfect cross which eventually led to Sneidjer’s goal and then scored Holland’s 3rd with the first headed goal of the tournament.
It’s a pity he never replicated this form when playing for Arsenal.
One game does not make a career but I really liked Engelaar.
LDE, yeah to me the Flamster leaving was bad news. I’m neutral on Hleb - although given Wenger’s youth-only replenishment policy that probably makes it bad, Rosicky & RvP’s physical resilience is certainly bad. And I honestly couldn’t care less about Nasri (and Ramsey). So I’m struggling a little to agree with the ‘no bad news’ idea.
International tournaments are fun to watch, but I’d never ever rate them as a good stage to gauge a players club value. History is strewn with players who turned it on for a tournament but never proved value over a long hard season.
i got a feeling AW is preparing for the worst - 5+6 ruling.
on paper it would affect Arsenal most. yet in 5 or 6 years, by the time it really starts this policy, the English players of other big clubs are close to retirement.
it would be foolish for us to entering an inflated bidding war by then, might as well start collecting the bright young English boys starting from now.
Well…we’ll still get the usual complaints about signing one more 17 year old….but i’ve been following this transfer closely….and it feels good to finally come out on top in a transfer tussle with Man Utd. Especially when it was not down to money..but more to do with the history Arsenal has of developing youngsters
Ramsey’s capture could mean curtains for Diaby and Denilson. Those two are an enigma as they’re both superb technical players but there’s no real product from either. Diaby only want’s to go forward but lacks the awareness and vision to pose a real threat. Denilson has the awareness but often sits too deep to pose an attacking threat and lacks the presence to be a good DM.
Ramsey’s comparable to Denilson with the way he moves the ball around but adds a bit of a cutting edge in the attack as well as in the tackle. He’s still only seventeen so the sky’s the limit for him. I think he’ll be cover for Fabregas as you can’t really ask him to add steel to our midfield.
Lastly, we need to bring Fabrice Muamba back to Arsenal. I know I’ve said this before but think. If Wenger refuses to play Song at DM then it’s a no-brainer as Muamba will provide all that we need. He’s a tall, strong, hard-working, physical guy who can tackle. He’s young, he already knows the Arsenal way, he’s got two years of BPL experience, and he’s English. He’s refused to sign an extension with Birmingham so I’m thinking three million quid will probably be enough to get him back. I’m sure he’d jump at the chance to return to North London. Muamba to Arsenal is the right answer.
Ramsey and Muamba are two good young signings for only 8 million quid. We could give Diaby and Djourou until Christmas to show and prove. If they dont’ then we could recoup that 8 million when we sell them. Sounds like a winner to me, boys.
reading some of the Man U sites, they talked like Ramsey was already their player a few days ago. apparently Ramsey didn’t meet Fergie, it was Gary Nev who showed him around, and only got a phone call from Fergie. While Arsenal actually flew the kid to Switzerland.
Wayne is right, we won this bid mainly because years’ youth policy has earned as a good reputation for the youngsters. regardless of what David “I have made it big” Bentley said, the kids knew that u would get ur chances at Arsenal, the rest is up to you.
yet i think the fact that Arsenal had actually gone all the way to try signing Ramsey must be giving him an impression that he’s more “wanted” at Arsenal. imagine if u were 17, a big club actually flew u to Switzerland where a major tournament is on going and to meet up with the manager, that would surely make u feel like a star, or someone important. especically when we consider Ramsey hadn’t even been a regular starter at Cardiff.
“Trust me, if I make a decision it is because I know all the characteristics of the player whether they are physical or mental characteristics,” he said.
“When I put a player somewhere, I know why I do. If I play Song at centre back it is because I believe he will be a great centre back for Arsenal Football Club.
“In Song’s case, he can play in central midfield. But can he play 60 games there? I am not convinced.”
“When you win things you achieve more than anybody else. It follows that you get better contracts and more money.
“I cannot blame them if they have a good contract at another club but I still believe if they stay at the club and have a good season they could do a lot for the club and themselves. Then try new things.
“Most of the players who leave miss the club for lots of reasons. The lifestyle at Arsenal is fantastic. You get so well looked after.
“Next season will be very important for the club and the players.
“They must win something to keep the ambition of everybody and to maintain the hope of every player.
“If we don’t win anything next year it will be difficult to keep everybody happy. If you don’t see any possibility of winning the title they will change their minds.”
Yeah I think AW knows whats gonna happen in 5-6 years time. Like he did with the stadium. Like with the takeovers. Like with the economics. And is planning ahead…again..incase of an eventuality. Bert speaks big big sense. Unfortunately sense is rarely heard - like in the case of most fans.
As for Ramsey ..like Nasri I’ll believe it when on Arsenal.com.. nt a minute sooner. He’ll be playing CC next year with FA Cups and the sub of the bench in the 88 routine. Nothing more. Still 5m is a lot..just like for Theo. Hope it translates - as it will with Theo.
another reason i think it’s we had other options in DM. Flamini played so many games last season it’s difficult for anyone to play there anyway. Gilberto as 2nd choice. And bare in mind AW would still need to find time for Denilson as well.
the question should be asked instead - what IF AW play Song in DM? i think soon Denilson would be asking for a move.
things are always easy for critics - they just have to nitpicking what AW did or did not do. they don’t need to put any other factor into consideration. unfortunately that will never be the case for a manager.
That Vela is impressing me already has one sharp dude. Hasn’t even put the shirt on and he already knows the score.
France like Arsenal cannot win when team stack the box unless you have options in attack. The best team so far Holland showed what one option is: an attacking FB. Van Bronckhorst who was ironically replaced by Abidal at Barcelona was MOTD for me.
I like Donadoni. When he came to the NY Metrostars, he was class personified. His intelligence w/ the ball provided me w/ an education of how football should be played. Unfortunately the Metrostar players around him needed remedial help w/ their football abilities. To start the Serie A 5th place team’s entire aging MF was a mistake. It should be noted that Holland played an attacking 4-5-1 that Wenger likes to use. Now all the pundits will jump on the Holland bandwagon. Its early yet. It was great to see a spry RVP. Reminds you why we don’t need to sign another striker (provided Eduardo can REALLY come all the way back).
I hope a Ferguson enjoyed his holiday in the south of France. Will ManU be providing a retraction on the story that had Ramsey practically signed, sealed and delivered? Arrogant and pompous are word that come to mind.
@104 - typical Man U arrogrance who probably thought they got the god-given right to recurit every talents, and whoever doesn’t want to play for them are making a mistake of their life… and they wonder why everybody hates Man U (apart from their own fans and the gloryhunters).
@107, while I completely agree that most ManU fans are arrogant, I do wonder what Arsenal fans would have said if Ramsey has chosen ManU. Something to the effect of - it’s all about money!! Remember SWP.
i think it’s because Sendy and Djourou are both on the blink of leaving anyway (at least that’s what we have heard, and fans been talking about it, even here). while Denilson remains as a major project under AW.
AW saw Song in training everyday. how often u watched Song? so it’s quite obvious who knows better.
Ramsay is good signing. I’ve no problem with this type of young acquistion. It’s an uplifting addition, due to his choosing us over United. It’s not look like we’ve bum rushed some hobo off the streets of Sao Paulo who no one has heard of.
Plus, he looks like an intelligent player who is already physically developed and cerebral. Not one of those emaciated biafrons who need to bulk up to play EPL football i.e Fran Merida.
Lets hope Wenger knocks the youngster thing on the head now though. He’s satisfied his addiction with this signing, he’s got his high and injected himself with the prodigy syringe, so now he should move away from his idealistic dreamer mode and put his brain back into gear and think about the year 2008. That means bringing in three or four players who can realistically make an impression immediately. The squad is getting ridicously young; more so when Hleb leaves.
Quick question: I was looking at Spain’s roster and didn’t see Jose Antonio Reyes’s name. Does anyone know what happened to him? Is he hurt or was he just left out of the squad?
Pepe is a relocated Brazilian and is a carbon copy of Lucio and the new breed of CB’s coming out of Brazil. Tall, good in the air and technically very sound on the ground.
Jose Reyes hasn’t been in the Spain squad for a long time. He’s no longer a regular at Atletico because, quite frankly, they have someone better. There’s an Argentine kind named Aguero who’s absolutely fantastic. If you haven’t seen him, this kid is like “Messi” fantastic. Atletico won’t be able to hold him for too much longer but they will get a very nice chunk of money for him.
June 6th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I really want holland to win this tournament, the team as a whole reminds me of Arsenal though Van Basten is trying to instill some defensive discipline but after the years of Koeman and the De Boer brothers, the dutch have always exhibited defensive frailties. The dutch epitomises one-touch total football just like the Arsenal, no matter how badly they do overall in any tournament, thats the kind of football I wanna keep watching.
June 6th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
On paper Spain have the players to win it all, but like Holland in the past, always seem to stumble when it gets to crunch time. Maybe this time they will get it right with Fab playing an extended role.
Romania and Holland should not emerge from the “Group Of Death” where Italy and France must surely be the favorites to move on. However, this group could provide some surprises because none of these teams can afford to have a bad day against their opponents.
France on the other hand seems revitalized up front with the infusion of new blood and if they are able to consistently play tight in defense they have all the tools to make it happen.
As always, Germany and Italy will show their famed consistency at the International level and their ability to engineer victories in tight situations will hold them in good stead and make them viable contenders.
My dark horse here is Russia, especially if they can survive the group stages with Arshavin being out for the first 2 games due to suspension. Most of their players come from Zenit and Spartak and are accustomed to playing together which is a huge plus on this international stage.
As usual, I expect Portugal to shine in a few games with Ronalda, Veloso and Moutinho leading the way, only to blow up against an inferior side and be unceremoniously dumped from the competition.
Croatia without Eduardo, who accounts for some 37% of their goals, along with Greece (what are the odds of lightening striking in the same place twice in 4 years) should be part of the also rans.
Sentimental Pick: Spain
Logical Pick: France
Outsider: Russia
June 6th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Allez Les Blues!
June 6th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
I like to see an underdog win this tourney.
June 6th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Well, here’s a SHOCKER… RVP is not fit for the opening Holland match.
absolutely stunning surprise there…
This lad simply can not be counted on to beat the injury bug. Massive talent. Great skills… I hope he doesn’t play in Euro2008 at all.. just means he might not get injured there.
Looking to watch some good footy… I’ll support Italy … and watch France with interest for Thierry Henry.
Would LOVE to get 25 - 30 Million for Adebayor…. he’s not scoring another 30 next year, just can’t see it… but I doubt it will happen… and if it did, I doubt we would spend it all on players. But I can hope.
How about Hleb to Barca for Thierry Henry, and Ade to Milan… we buy Nasri… Rosicky comes back strong… we get a CB… and away we go?!
Yes. I know. Dreaming. Nobody comes back to the Arsenal!
Took Anelka 12 years to admit publicly that he should have never left at all!
June 6th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
I want France to win so that they can avenge the WC lost (where the better team didn’t win). Ribery needs end product and Henry’s sciatic nerve (where have we seen this before) needs to get right. Gomis and Nasri could be X-factors here because they’re young, hung and full of fun.
I think Italy will win because they don’t have any weaknesses even without Cannavaro.
I too think Russia could be the dark horse especially if Pogrebniak recovers.
Portugal and Spain have the flash and dash but I don’t think they have the mental fortitude. Why does Aragones give Fabregas the no.10 shirt, then start Xavi all the time. No skin off my nose. Deco did squat for Barcelona and Scolari thinks he’s the answer.
The Czechs without Rosicky are going nowhere. Ditto for Croatia without Eduardo. Ditto Netherlands without RVP. Too many teams need massive contributions from 1 or 2 stars. Turkey is an example of this: Kazim-Richards, Emre and Tuncay will have no one quaking in their boots. Romania is another w/ the clean and sober Mutu. Sweden need Ibrahimovich to show up big time and when was the last time that happened. Recalling Henrik Larsson and having Freddie (I’m old & on 80k/wk at WHU and I did zip) Ljungberg does not boost their chances.
The Germans are weak at CB and can be beaten by the ball over the top. The Germans could go all the way though if Ballack/Lehmann carries them.
Austria and Switzerland are just there to make up the numbers and be genial hosts. Lightening will not strike twice for Greece. Teams who bought Greek players after their Euro win saw no impact from them because it was their defensive system that won it.
Wenger is waiting for Galliani to call so that he can tell him: F**k You. There goes that 32mil and all the new signings that many had dancing in their heads.
June 6th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
come on croatia do it for dudu
June 6th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
I made a bet today… to guess the winners in all four groups… I picked Portugal, Germany, Holland and Spain
Other than Holland, the other three are realistic, but we will see, you never know in a tournament like this
June 6th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Sorry you wasted your money on Holland Sheed. Your other picks are good, but Holland over France and Italy?
Great attacking game but no defense and an unfit RVP.
June 7th, 2008 at 12:36 am
For some reason, I feel like picking Italy to win the tournament. Cannavaro’s injury means they have no real leader (like in the mould of Maldini..) in the team, but they have plenty of good players who might play better as a unit.
In the past, I have picked Spain for plenty of tournaments only for them to mess my picks up. I am not going to go with them despite their talented midfield. And as for Holland, I feel they have their hands on their self destruct button again. With France, I worry where there goals will come from. Germany should get goals in their group but they will let some in as well. Still they should cruise from their group and I expect them to get to the semis.
Overall, I am just hoping for some good games and not 10 players behind the ball for 90 dull minutes.
June 7th, 2008 at 1:59 am
Nice interview with Big Ade here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/sol/newsid_7420000/newsid_7428600/7428699.stm?bw=nb&mp=wm&news=1&ms3=6&ms_javascript=false&bbcws=2
June 7th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
It’s Spain’s turn to shine.
June 8th, 2008 at 3:50 am
in terms of performance, i think Swiss did better than Czech Rep in the opener. problem with Swiss was the lack of quality up front, Frei looks like out of the tournament with the injury he picked up is gonna be the killer blow to the host.
Czech was surprisingly negative against a side with inferior overall quality. yet they are quite well organized at the back.
as usual, it’s a disappointing opener. i think for us the Gooners in particular, after watching some good attacking football over the years, lot of matches, regardless of the level, seem like quite boring to us. at least to me personally.
on the back of my mind, i found myself always asking a question “why can’t they link a decent good pass together?” in truth though, i understand it’s never that easy, just that we are kinda spoilt by our football and thought that it’s easy for everybody to play good passing football.
June 8th, 2008 at 11:48 am
yeah Andez, I think we are indeed spoilt by watching Arsenal’s game. I had to answer that yesterday when I claimed both games were boring, the opening one was bad and even the Portugal game was not that outstanding. Also, this is why I have been let down by the last few international tournaments as I compare the overall play to what Arsenal can do.
June 8th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Arsenal has spoiled me forever. Thought the first game was boring and while Portugal produced some good ball at times in the second half it was interspersed by aimless kicking, few well linked passes and very little flair.
June 8th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Andez / Sachin…
While to some degree, I agree… we are spoiled by our “style”… you are aware that the point of the game is… TO WIN.
We might play nice… but we haven’t been winning anything.
I would surely give up some “pretty football” for a trophy.
There are a lot of teams in this tournament and WC football… and for that matter, the EPL… who when you look at the talent level, can NOT compete against the BIG TEAMS (be it club or country)… not playing the fun football, the open game we enjoy watching. They have to play a negative style in order to give themselves a chance to win. It IS about WINNING.
Greece won a few years back… they didn’t do it with pretty football at all. It gives other minnows hope that they can pull the upset. Don’t hold your breath waiting for Arsenal type footy… Brazil isn’t in Europe!
June 8th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
But Stag, at the same time, Chelsea has won the league twice in recent years and Liverpool has won the CL once and been to the final twice and I’m not sure that I would take money to watch them play unless it’s against Arsenal. It’s the same reason I don’t pay much attention to Serie A - the games are generally pretty dour defensive affairs. I guess what I’m saying is there must be happy medium. For me it’s not just about the end product, but also how they get there.
The irony is that if I had started watching Arsenal earlier, I probably wouldn’t be a fan at all, but I happened to be able start watching soccer on cable when Wenger took over.
June 8th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Stag, not exactly hadn’t won anything. 2 double, one unbeaten season, that’s “something”. As u said, a team playing with style rarely be able to achieve things like that.
we had won UGLY before under GG. it’s easy to say now we would give up pretty football for trophy. but when that really happens, imagne that, it’s a 38 games season, plus all other fixtures, have to watch football like that for an entire year in order for us to get a trophy in the end… well, maybe u will take it, maybe u wont. u have to “experience” that to know the difference.
right now, most of the fans (started supporting Arsenal under AW) hasn’t really experiecned stuffs like that yet. so you never know.
as for myself, i had been through the GG years. I really not sure if i can go back and watch that type of football, even if it means we can win a trophy or two. the thought of it is scary enough….
in fact, come to think of it, i blame Wenger. cos since watching his football, i know my life as a football fan will change forever. and worst of all, i know one day i won’t be able to watch that soft of football anymore, at least from the team i love. so my feeling right now is just like when i was watching Michael Jordan playing basketball - try to cherish every single moment. cos u know it won’t last forever.
June 8th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
i thought i was the only one predicting russia could go all the way… but that was before reading the comments here …
really think that the exp that they have to play together in the uefa cup together for the past few years is going to help them this time.. and i loved the way ashravin was playing against rangers in the final … in whatever little that i saw of him i loved his movement… reminds a lot of hleb…. and probably a bit more direct…
anyone knows where we can place bets here in india ( is it official) on russia … what are the odds… they could change a lot after their first match …
June 8th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Most of the time Wenger’s Arsenal play aesthetically pleasing football but there have been plenty of occasions this season and in season’s past- especially in europe- that Arsenal have sent me to sleep.
This season I can recall at least five or six games- usually without Hleb and Fabregas- that we played at a standard similar to the game yesterday. What maybe made it even worse was that we usually looked totally unmotivated and disinterested for large parts as well. At least until the last twenty minutes anyway.
I found the game yesterday watchable because Switzerland played at a high tempo and that made up for the deficiency in technique.
June 8th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
man, if this season u got a few games that have had sent u to sleep, then imagine Arsenal one day does change manager and play ugly way to win as Stag put it, then u may have to sleep through the whole season!
June 8th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
feel for Austria, i felt they did pretty well today, consider this is a side if they had to play the qualifying around they would never stand a chance.
but England really have to take note - even a side like Austria, they still got some players technically very sound.
June 8th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
I think there is a grey area. Some of the George Graham sides played good football. I think Chelsea play good football as well when they want to.
As I said, alot of it is down to the attitude of the sides. A team with a good motivated attitude who play pretty basic football are more exciting than a technical team who look bored. The technical team reach higher standards but can frustrate because there is less margin for error.
Czech Republic were dreadful though and they played at a slow tempo which compounded the problem. Without Rosicky they are nothing.
Both Croatia and the Czech Republic will bomb in this tournament, along with Holland.
June 8th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
In fact, Holland are the perfect example of a team having direct ’stat’ players and yet still being a relatively poor team. Sneijder, Van Der Vaart, Van Persie, Robben, RVN, Huntaleer have all got impressive stats but because they do not have a Hleb or Fabregas type player who can hold the ball and change the pace of the game, they look clueless when they come up against a team who can manipulate possession as well as score.
I find this perception that they play attractive football a bit of a myth as well, partly because of the reasons I outlined above. Whenever they crash out of a tournament they always flatter to deceive both offensively and defensively.
Robben is their one truly world class player who could have carried them along but alas he as injury prone as Van Persie.
June 8th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
I don’t think one can expect an international tournament like this to produce Arsenal quality football. These guys get just a few weeks to practice together before the actual thing begins. Their qualifying games are interspersed between club games and they are exactly the ones we fear and despise because we don’t want our players to get hurt or anything.
Remember Arsenal, themselves, despite months of playing together sometimes struggle to produce the beautiful game when a few key players are missing.
June 8th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
but that’s exactly my point of being spoilt by Wenger’s football.
sure, GG’s Arsenal occassionally, though very rare, played some nice stuffs. And Arsene’s Arsenal occassinally, though very rare, had some off days as well.
yet because we been watching the brilliant passing football from AW’s sides, an off day would make u want to fall asleep. and i have to admit, one or two games this season made me want to fall asleep as well.
but think of it this way - if all a sudden we find ourselves playing the Chelsea way , or Liverpool way, or GG way tomorrow, when “boring” become a NORM, how folks are going to take that? by then, instead of fallen asleep once for a while, you might find yourselves sleepy MOST of the time.
look at the stamford bridge, why they had so many empty seats in CL group stage? because their tickets are expensive? as u said, Emirates aren’t cheap neither. There must be a REASON for that.
And why Emirates almost had a full house week in week out regardless of the opposition, competition?
i think it’s in a fan’s nature that everyone loves attacking football. we all put on a brave face during GG time that yes “boring boring Arsenal” but we don’t care. just like the Chelsea fans today do. but deep inside, back then I was wondering how on earth we couldn’t play like Liverpool, and i admired their quick passing football very much.
Wenger will leave one day, and this day will come. I don’t know if we will win more trophy with the next manager, but one thing i m pretty sure we won’t be seeing the same kind of football we been watching the past decade.
The new Arsenal fans (who supported Arsenal since AW took charge) have been living a fan’s fantasy dream, yet they don’t realize that just yet. Few fans in this world started supporting a team watching that soft of football, and have been watching that soft of football throughout his life as a fan. but that’s not really a REALITY for a regular fan of any other club.
one day, there’s a very good chance we will be just playing like your Liverpool, Chelsea. I really wonder how fans are going to react then.
June 8th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
nipuan, u can turn the tournament into a LEAGUE, they would be playing the SAME stuffs.
June 8th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Andez, it has nothing to do with league or cup format. It’s the amount of time for preparation. Also, you have to work within the realms of nationality. So your player set is fixed. Would Arsene be able to produce Arsenal like teams with (let’s say) only English or Germans players? I doubt it.
June 8th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Andez, I agree with you. It’s hard for those who haven’t followed Arsenal pre-Wenger to appreciate the difference he has made. It’s like trying to understand another country without actualy ever having lived there - you can read books, watch 1 hour documentaries on TV but nothing quite compares to living it.
Some teams in the first half of GG’s tenure had periods where they played compelling football. The hardness of the defence, a good target man, and the work ethic was allied to some talented individuals. So when it clicked it produced some compelling stuff. But I think there was quite a difference between that and what Wenger has infused into the club. With Wenger it’s in the clubs DNA, with GG it happened spasmodically.
As time went by, GG’s Arsenal slipped into comatose. It became pretty woeful.
This new ‘young Arsenal’ project fits nicely with Wenger’s MO. It’s probably the main reason why he is still so engaged and challenged. The question is whether he can find the right blend to see it bloom. At this juncture the question I see is whether the transfusion provided by the maturing young players can offset the bleeding of experience.
June 8th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
For all those who say National teams can’t play good football I would recommend watching Brazil and Argentina now and previous Dutch teams.
It all boils down to the Managers and what they ask their players to do. In the 70’s, for a period of 4-6 years, Brazil were playing terrible football until their manager got fired due to fan pressure, not from lack of results but from the lack of “Jugo Bonito”.
Even France, Spain and Portugal will play very entertaining football when they put their minds to the task, and please don’t tell me that many countries do not have the talent to do so.
June 8th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
The only reason the Arsenal stadium is filled every week (and paying the highest ticket prices) is due to Wengerball.
Wengerball is also the SOLE reason Wenger has not been sacked and is the only reason the majority of fans havent called for his head.
It is one thing to be used to your team playing all humdrum….you are numbed down to it and you push your love for the club to overcome it. It is a COMPLETELY different thing to be used to 11-14 years of Wengerball and then going back. Hell no, that wont work.
I would take good football with a trophy here and there over rigid footie anyday.
Life is about the journey not a destination. So is football.
A trophy will make your week for sure.
But beautiful football over 38+ games brightens up 38+ weekends or weekdays. A nice spread over 9 months. If there is a trophy at the end - that is a perfect climax. If not, the journey continues.
I will take that over the hollowness of cheering over a trophy for a day after 9 prior months of numbness - waking up at 8 am on a Saturday just to be sent back to sleep in frustration or even anger.
June 8th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
No surprises yet. The favorites have won and the underdogs have not even scored in four matches.
http://www.skysports.com/football/match_reaction/0,19764,11065_2925782,00.html. What game was this S***s supporter watching. Modric was largely nonexistent after the first 4 minutes. At 16.5mil pounds he’s looking like a real ’steal’. When he was on the ball, he showed no strength in possession and didn’t really managed the game like we’ve come expect from our MF. No refunds allowed.
Gomez has got to score that goal. Poland’s D didn’t get a clue after the Gomez miss and come back and get clobbered on another through ball.
Milan gets permission to speak to Drogba is the word today. Senderos is singing “say a little prayer for me”.
Daily Mirror reports that we flew Ramsey on a private jet to speak w/ Wenger in Basel. That tops a lame phone call from Ferguson who is too busy roasting himself on some beach. Arsenal and Wenger turning on the syle and panache to win the day. Hope that makes the difference despite what Cardiff want. Next week comes the big decision-boyhood favorite (ManU), Cinderella (Everton) or the big city (Arsenal).
Ronaldo is reported to have a complaint about the constant rain in Manchester. I didn’t know Reyes long lost twin had been found and he’s just as lame.
I watched some of the Brazil v Venezuela game (0-2, that right, 0-2). Diego was Brazil’s best player when he came on in the 2nd half. The man is quick, agile and can make pinpoint passes. If Nasri (like waiting for Godot) can give us half of Diego’s skill I’ll consider it money well spent.
WTF is up w/ Balotelli. He’s still in diapers and already wants a new deal after just getting out of the youth team. Now that’s chutzpah. He wants Pato money. Trust me on this, he’s ok but he’s not Pato who is already better than 90% of Serie A strikers who go by that alias. Balotelli is supposed to have said, “I feel nothing for Inter”. Now that is some cold sh*t. He must have said that after meeting Mourinho
Mexico v Peru at Soldier’s Field (1900) 6/8/08. Hope Vela shows us something tonight.
June 8th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Funny how Chelsea and Lilypool subjugated their fans to DIRE shit for the majority of the season - and yet still won as much as Arsenal LOL.
Sure teams must always strive to win but the “fans” - who would rather we stopped the good football to “increase” our chances of trophies - have serious self-esteem issues. Such that they need to feel success through association.
From a logical point of view a trophy does nothing for the fan - as an individual. Sure you are happy for a couple of days but after that its over. Trophies mean more to players and managers - because its their profession not just an emotional thing.
But a lot of so-called fans like the association with a winner - as it masks their personal hollowness. For those sort of fans its all a self-esteem issue.
June 8th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
@ 32: To be fair to Modric, not all players can perform in every single game - so you cant make a conclusion on him based on that.
In my view a great player is the player who steps up in the crunch games when it matters. Austria dont matter in any way whatsoever. Zidane always used to play like crap against teams like Lecce and Torino .. LOL.
Lets see what he does against Germany and in the quaterfinals upwards before mocking Spurs.
At some point Spurs are going to get it right. And Ramos isnt exactly a dummy.
June 8th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
When I started watching GG football, I never complained about the style. I even spent most of the 90’s watching Serie A games week in week out, even if some games didn’t produce much attacking soccer. But my views have changed after the last few years. Now, if I watch non-Arsenal games, I don’t enjoy it if both teams play negative football for 90 minutes. I understand most teams try to play & win to the best of their perceived abilities. Greece won Euro 2004 the only way they could have, otherwise they would have taken a beating. I know may Greek fans who were thrilled at their team’s performance in 2004 and didn’t care for how they played because Greece could not play like Brazil. They just didn’t have players with that technical ability. But I get frustrated when Chelsea and Liverpool play the games they do with the talented players they have. Their players can win games with a more attack minded style, yet the players are held back in a rigid framework.
I liken my taste for football now as to film genres. Some people only watch certain genres (horror, sci-fi, etc) while some will see any film if it is good, no matter what genre. Previously, I used to watch any form of football. But now, I only enjoy watching a limited form of football. I will still watch any Arsenal game, even if sometimes they may not play great because I have a vested interest in how Arsenal do. But if two teams are playing null soccer, then I find it difficult to sit through.
June 8th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
I agree with the theme that we are spoilt by the sheer continuous quality of Wenger’s teams. We are on a drip that feeds pure football into our sporting souls. But it’s not an either-or proposition. A club of Arsenal’s stature is there to win. Ultimately we need to win. No one has the right to demand a win in a particular comp at a particular time but winning something regularly is critical.
We are ‘up there’ in every way with the footballing elite and the price is success.
The beauty is that we aren’t that far away. We don’t need a major overhaul, or mega bucks, or a mega name. We just need to ensure that we support this talented squad with enough depth and experience so that we don’t fall just-short continually. And so that the really super-talented players (or even the talented ones who break-thru) don’t dribble out the door each off-season.
June 8th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Fred, what’s the difference between winning a game and winning a trophy? Both evoke feelings of satisfaction, although obviously a trophy brings more contentment than winning a game most of the time. If winning means so little to you and it’s “all about the journey, peace out man”, why do you get so irritated by Hleb not shooting and trying to create passing moves? Surely, going by your logic, winning a game is just as insignificant as winning a trophy?
And can you explain where somone said we should change our style of football?
June 8th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
I am responding to Stag who said and I quote:
“I would surely give up some “pretty football” for a trophy.”
I on the other hand strongly want us to win the trophies…BUT only on the back of the Wengerball. I want the trophies but I want to be entertained almost every weekend over a 9 month period.
Is that understandable to you??
PS: Not every single topic in the world is about Hleb, you know.
Hleb is an utter, comprehensive and profound loser and that is exactly why I want him out of Arsenal. I want Arsenal to bring enough trophies here and there
WHILE still playing awesome football.
If a player like Hleb sticks with us we wont win anything and Wenger will eventually be kicked out - meaning the END of Wengerball. And the hiring of some lump who will plump us back to the DARK AGES of kick and rush football.
No thanks.
June 8th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Fred, sooner or later Wenger will leave, does that mean you won’t support Arsenal from then on?!?
June 8th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Not really, Wengerball will be a loss….but if we hire a progressive attacking coach that places emphasis on passing and speed as opposed to lumping, then it will still be entertaining enough.
Someone like Pat Rice will be perfect. He is a passive Wenger-clone and understands Wenger ball inside out. He might be too old though.
Dennis Bergkamp or some Dutch coach who favors all out attack like Rijkaard or Van Basten could work as well. Yeah Rijkaard might seem like a dud now, but when he joined Barca they were a shambles and he aint any more naive than Wenger anyway.
No to Tony Adams or any other English coach though!
June 8th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Steve Coppell had balls to play attacking game with a team like Reading… not all the English managers are defensive minded
Rijkaard is shit, he had success at Barca only because all the players he had were at their peak… Ronaldinho, Xavi, Deco, Eto’o, Puyol, Belleti, Marquez… now when they started to lose form we can all see his real qualities
June 8th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Rumor hasit that Viera is no wanted by Inter and Mourinho is ready to let him go for about 4-6 mill. Who would like to see Viera back at Arsenal for a few years to mentor the young guys?
June 8th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Vela sparkling in a 4-0 pasting of Peru. Playing CF, he scored a tap in when the GK misjudged a ball over the top. He also had legitimate PK claim denied when The GK brought him down in the box (? referee mercy rule since the score was 4-0). He also rounded the keeper and side netted what could have been the 5th goal. I think we’ll see moments of brilliance as he develops and adjust his game to the EPL. Similar to Project Walcott.
June 8th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
CaribKid, with Vieira it depends on his attitude.
He hasn’t played a huge number of games in Italy each season so his body is showing signs on ageing.
If he was happy to sit back and play foil to Fabregas and shield the back 4 he could do a valuable job and let another player ease into the role on a part-time basis. Good height so would help at set pieces. Could solve the captaincy issue too
June 8th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
@ sheed 41: Rijkaard isnt shit. Barca were in the wilderness in those days before he came in and he completely revamped their style of play. I used to watch a lot of their matches then and there is a major difference in their style of play from the 02/03 season and the 03/04 one.
Ronaldinho cited him as the reason he joined them rather than Man U and Eto’o and Deco joined the next year after the foundations had been built. Lets also not forget that he has NO control over transfer signings.
I also liked the way he took the Dutch team to the Euro 2000 semis. The style of play that is.
Lets face facts is record is not that bad. I mean Wenger has just completed 3 seasons without a trophy !!!!! That doesnt make Wenger shit does it??
Anyway I think attacking coaches have it much harder. Because they have to concentrate on both playing good football and winning…..so I always cut them some slack. The same way I cut Wenger some slack.
Look at Van Gaal coach of that classic Ajax team…..fell flat on his ass with Barca and Netherlands. Even Wenger got Nancy relegated way back.
For an attacking coach when it goes wrong it really goes wrong. Cut ‘em some slack. Its much easier to be a defensive coach for sure.
June 8th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Vieira is old and injury prone. Plus he is not going to magically decide to come down from his 120 K/week wages to come to Arsenal.
The only ex-Arse player I want back is Pires! Physique was never his strength so he hasnt lost much with age. Plus he is not on a very high wage at Villareal anyway.
June 8th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
Coming to think of it Pires will be an excellent signing. He still has it. He still has the same speed as he did 10 years ago - not that fast mind you.
But he still has unfinished business at Arsenal too. Wenger made a MASSIVE blunder removing him in that final - instead of Ljunberg or even Hleb.
Plus he will come on a free transfer and will probably accept the 40-50k/week that he gets at Villareal.
We can hand him a one year contract with the option of a year by year extension. He will then give walcott and hlebs replacement valuable time.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:15 am
I loved Pires too Fred, and I thought Wenger made a poor call in letting him go. He was a natural to ‘do a Bergkamp’ and keep contributing on a diminishing basis. At the time Wenger thought he had Reyes, Ljungberg, Hleb, RvP and Rosicky came to replace him…..so he thought he was well stocked.
But at 35 the goals have gone and our opportunity too. It’s too late for Super Bob.
Vieira on the other hand is 31 (nearly 32) and has more to give. Sure he won’t play 50+ games but then again we probably don’t want him to clog up the role - better he contributes say 30 games a season in tandem with a Song.
Yes, the attitude is the biggest hurdle. He is a prima-dona in his own way. He has achieved so much and accepting a lesser role (and pay) wouldn’t sit well. So all this is fantasy. Just like every other transfer topic that has been discussed recently!!!!!! LOL
June 9th, 2008 at 12:15 am
pires was the man id never say no to him comeing back
June 9th, 2008 at 1:02 am
The difference is that Vieira was a POWER player.
His trademark was storming through the middle - unstoppably.
So age completely diminishes that aspect for him.
Pires on the other hand was always slow and slight in stature. Age doesnt diminish is qualities as much.
He carried Villareal to second spot in LaLiga when Riquelme decided to pansy all over the place.
I will take him back in a heartbeat. He doesnt have to start, he can play a Bergkamp or Giggs role for us. And he would come very cheap.
Yeah, it is highly unlikely to happen, but if Arsenal really is broke we can as well go for cheap, valuable and consistent experience.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:16 am
I don’t see it happening, but if they want to come back, Vieira/Pires should call out for Arsenal than some other club like Anelka and Petit did.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:31 am
Viera actually started to look like his old self at the end of the season and would provide some height in the midfield, allow Song to grow into the DM role and provide some more steel along the line.
Would he take a pay cut to come back home, or would Arsene want him back? Who knows, but it would be a nice short term solution.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:35 am
I know what Vieira was, and I wouldn’t expect him to be the same, otherwise he wouldn’t fit with Fab.
It is precisely because his old storming box to box days are gone that I think it could work. That’s why I said he could sit back and sweep in front of the back 4 and support Fab. It could work in theory, it would extend his career and he could earn more trophies. Alas, Vieira is a ‘big man’ and any change would need to apeal to his ego.
Arsenal aren’t broke, that’s not the issue. It’s Wenger’s vision for creating a ‘young Arsenal’. He has this project and wants to go down in history for it. Look at what has happened. Arsenal Mk II has been dismantled in record time. And every new signing is a babe interspersed with an occassional Eduardo. It’s bordering obsessive.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:37 am
#53 is for Fred
June 9th, 2008 at 2:59 am
Yeah, but Vieira was the essence of the Mk2. Wenger bringing him back will be the white flag of defeat. Pires on the other hand could be the Bergkamp who transcends various versions of the team.
Besides a slower, less mobile Vieira doesnt work. We need a flamini-type terrier beside Fabregas. Vieira is too old and too experienced to be doing terrier work for a 20 yr old Fabregas.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:14 am
The Flamini terrier type worked well with Fab, no doubt. But I think Fab is a complete enough player now to fit with a number of styles of midfield partner. Fab isn’t a fancy-dan that needs protection, he can hold his own.
That said, the one type I think we don’t want is ‘the Gilberto’. I never warmed to his play. With Vieira it was ok, cause Vieira gave the partnership the ‘fire in the belly’. But Bert is just way too passive to complement Fab, he just doesn’t bring enough to the table. Too much pressure would be on Fab to be the enforcer. And we would all be screaming again for a big imposing midfield player - interesting how those complaints faded with the success of Flamini.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:15 am
thks Sachin, Fred, Kiwi. u guys understand where my main POINT is.
Like Sachin said, when i first started watching Arsenal, and the GG football, I didn’t complain much neither. I love the club, and would follow them with whatever style they play. besides back then, as a kid, i didn’t know much of the difference anyway. apart from the fact i did feel Liverpool’s football was far more enjoyable to watch than us at that time.
but the KEY point i m trying to say here is what Fred pointed out there - “It is one thing to be used to your team playing all humdrum….you are numbed down to it and you push your love for the club to overcome it. It is a COMPLETELY different thing to be used to 11-14 years of Wengerball and then going back”
i know there are ppl would still disagree. yet as Josh like to say - TIME WILL TELL.
my whole orginal point is not to say apart from Arsenal, other teams are all not watchable.
i just simply point out how i feel - that personally i feel being spoilt. That the Wengerball has really changed my concept of football forever. Had i never experienced watching that kind of football season in season out, I would not feel other matches are boring. but the fact is I HAD EXPERIENCED that kind of football for a decade. so that makes very hard to go back.
it’s not really about preparation or whatever else. what kind of football we saw on the pitch mainly relied on the manager’s mentality. Arsenal were not able to play the way we play from the beginning. class of 98 surely was a bit different from class of 2004. those give and go, pass and move takes years to perfect it.
but most significantly, not too many managers’ mentalty today is to play the beautiful game the beautiful way, or else Wenger would not be criticized for playing beautiful football yet failed to win trophy.
surely Brazil still play the great game, but that’s in their blood. not many other teams can say the same today.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:25 am
The TROPHY Vs GOOD FOOTBALL thing, here is my personal view:
In terms of international football, my team is always Denmark. The reason is simple - because that awesome side of them in the mid 80s, in particular 1986 World Cup.
Denmark had actually went on to win the EURO 1992. While the 1986 WC side were trashed 5-1 by Spain in the round of 16.
but in my heart, that 86 side will always be a special side. because their football were so lovely.
and i m not alone. whenever ppl mentioned the great Danes of yesteryears, inevitably we would hear ppl bringing up that World Cup 86 side. They were the legends in Denmark. despite failed to WIN anything.
a lesser 92 side had done magic and won the EURO 92, but they are not held as high a place in ppl’s heart as the 86 side.
it’s the same with Holland of 70/80s. They too failed to win anything. but till today we would still hear about the “Total Football” of that Dutch side frequently, as for the sides actually beat them to win the World Cup - Germany and Argentina, seem like fading away under their shadow as years move on.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:09 am
I can understand why Wenger let Pires go. He did look physically shot at times during that last season at Arsenal and looked a shadow of the player he was. He rolled back the years a few times like Juve at home but in general I was in favour of his sale.
However he has surprised me with his form in Spain and he would have been useful to keep for a season or two, more so than Freddie. However, I wouldn’t buy him now. He’s only scored three goals all season and so he won’t add that scoring touch that was his real strength.
Plus, Wenger was spot on taking Pires off in that final. When your down to ten men you don’t want Pires shuffling about not being able to close people down, which was something he struggled with in that last season. Both Hleb and Ljungberg- especially Ljungberg- did a great job of harrying the Barca players in that final. Hleb still had the energy near the end to make a surge and put Henry through on goal, but of course Henry missed.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:30 am
i agree. AW’s decision to take off CL was something probably every other manager would do. when u r down to 10 men, u want more hardworking player instead of flair.
pires is someone who can play until mid or late 30s. his game apart from flair and skills, it’s more about his head - one of the most intelligent players i seen over years.
as for Paddy, i think the reason AW let him go was mainly because of his knee. very much gone by then. Paddy had been carrying a knee problem for years even before he was sold. not suprisingly as 9 years hard battling in central of field in the Premiership was bounded to take its toll on the players. in other word, he would never be able to give u a full season no more.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:36 am
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_3668427,00.html
Liverpool’s debt story. Makes you glad and proud to be an Arsenal fan.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:37 am
wanna talk a bit of Germany. in recent time it was probably the darkest days in Germany (national team) football. they didn’t have any real star like the old days.
2 years ago in the World Cup, we saw some promising youngsters emerged, but not there yet. Watching their first game Vs Poland, i sense that this side is about to turn into a real force. i like their full back Lahm in particular. in WC 2 years ago he shone as a left back. Now he’s playing as a right back with equal efficiency. i don’t recall too many players who’s able to play in the both full back positions with equal effectiveness. An unique talent.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:46 am
@61. that’s the worst part of a take over. They are mortgaging the club in order to buy it. putting all the loan debt into the club instead of themselves. In other words - only one true winner when a takeover happens - the previous shareholders who grab the money happily and go home.
i wonder WHEN the bubble will brust. it will definitely brust one day, and it’s just a matter of time to me. cos there’s only one League Title each season, and 4 CL places. the money the clubs’ spent are less likely to match the actual reward they get. yet in order to push for getting the things they want in return (trophies), clubs would inevitably be spending more and more. that can only lead to one eventual outcome…. it’s only a matter of time.
again, TIME WILL TELL!
June 9th, 2008 at 6:51 am
Germany had failed to win a game in the last two Euros. Their last win was the 1996 title.
Podolski looked very lively. For a striker, he seemed to do very well in the left winger role.
Let’s hope tonight we get some good games. Both sides scoring for a change.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Funny quote from the Arseblog this morning…
“Hleb is currently on his honeymoon, apparently, but I’m told things aren’t going well. As soon as he gets near the box he freezes up and tries to get someone else to finish the job. Honestly though, this is as tedious a transfer story as we’ve ever had.”
classic! If only Arsenal players act the same way on the pitch as off it, then:
1) Lehman would be shouting at his wife every morning when she steps on his toes in the shower
2) Gallas would be crying outside of the bedroom when his wife refuses to make love to him at the last minute after foreplay for 90-minutes
3) RVP would be talking about what a great lover he is in bed but has been injured “prematurely” half the time
4) Adebayor would take about 10 tries to “get it in” when his woman has been “wide open” and already naked on the bed
5) And most Arsenal players would be some of the best men at courting and charming the ladies, put on a beautiful display, but only for someone else to take the lady home at the end of the day!
lol…..
June 9th, 2008 at 10:37 am
@63
I dunno when the Liverpool bubble will burst, but I have a hunch that the ManU bubble will burst shortly after Fergie retires in 2-3 years time. Fergie is only concerned about his own legacy and is now on the same side as the glazers who will want to win at all costs. Don’t be surprised if Fergie buys another 3-4 £30m world class players over the next couple years and bring even more debt to the club.
The sad thing is that most United fans don’t see this and supports Fergie’s endeavors for this short term gain and a potential lethal long term consequences.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:12 am
good one neova, @65!!
as for Liverpool, i saw a report saying their supporters being protesting that their chairmen have now got themselves into a finanical mess…. but not quite remember they protested of anything when they signed Torres for big bucks… what do they expect?
as for Fergie, he couldnt have cared less whether Man U got broke or not. David O’Leary never complained when he got load of cashes to spend back in Leeds neither.
come to think of it, i don’t know why Wenger even bother about Arsenal’s finanical situation and been spending carefully? in the end, not only no one appreicated that (apart from the board of cos), and ppl actually BLAMED him for that. he could have easily asked the board to SHOW HIM THE MONEY, give him 50 mil to spend every season, or he would leave, i bet the board would still support him with that kind of $$. just raise the ticket price higher, they would get the money back anyway. in the end it’s just those bloody fools who actually LOVE the team that suffer.
why Wenger even bothered to do the right thing yet in the end not being appreicated?
June 9th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
neova @65. Thanks for that
June 9th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
that was some performance from the French!! all those hype of their big name youngsters, if this is meant to be a shop window for them, i afraid it’s not looking good.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
What an absolute rubbish game. The second half anyway coz thats all I watched. Benzema, the hugely overrated Ribery, the even more hugely overrated Malouda and a dead non creative central midfield were all terrible. They dont call Claude Makelele the assassin for nothing. He’s a brilliant footballer but one of the sneakiest dirtiest foulers you will see. That kick at the thigh at the end of the game was disgusting to see…seriously. Why do they do that? I’m not betting Italy - Holland is gonna be any better..seriously. Its going to be an absolute drought with a 1-0 at best to someone. Italy are painful upfront and Holland have so many injuries that I cant see them doing well. Who’s starting at centre back?Andre Oojier and Johnny Heitinga? or fat Bouma..or Melchiot? Oh dear…
June 9th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
so far Germany being the most impressive side. against Poland in a international “derby” game, they actually took the game to Poland from the start. a suprisingly positive approach from a traditional calculative side.
i dont know much about the French’s individual quality, if papers are to believe, they are all world-beaters. yet as a team, they were awful today.
got a hunch the Holland v Italy match will be a better game. now they knew France have dropped points, a win today will be a hugh boost to their qualification hope.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
haven’t seen the French game but I was expecting it to end 0-0. France have been awful under Raymond Domenech but since they made the 2006 final, all was forgiven.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Yes! Yes!! Yes!!! The Oranje are back!
Nice warm victory for the Dutch!!!
Beating those Italians is no mean feat.
The goal difference alone means the Dutch will most likely qualify from the group.
One of France or Italy will go. Or maybe even both!!! LOL.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
best performance (Holland) so far by miles. good football, hard working, the total football days may have gone, but this side still can play some nice stuffs.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
this italy team just have the mentality that i really hate.
why play THREE defensive midfielders in front of defense???? geez!!
i consider teams that play as much as 2 DMs too defensive, but italy always find a way to top it.
and even when 2 down they didnt bother to sub any of the 3 DMs….only replacing the forwards.
i really hope italy gets knocked out.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
@72 spot-on correct. Infact I’ll stretch it a little and say france have been terrible since after their last euro triumph in 2000. I dont understand how Domenech has managed to remain all this time as coach (getting to the world cup finals not withstanding). If france was an African nation we would have sacked him long ago :))
June 9th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
@75
I think Portugal also played two CDM’s infront of the back four, with Pepe being the main holding midfielder. The difference was Pepe was a box-to-box player and scored “both” opening goals and generally attacked when he had a chance. The Azzuri CDM’s didn’t join in the attack leaving Toni isolated upfront and the LF/RF’s chasing long balls into the corner flags
Really glad to see RVP getting some game time and he has a couple good runs at the goal. Hope he’ll stay fit and hope he can win it!
June 9th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Neova, Portugal played with one DM, Petit… Pepe was CB!
June 9th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Yikes, heady stuff this off-season……30 days of boredom. With pants-wetting excitment provided by tales of 17 & 20 year old super super players coming…..or maybe not.
Glad Wenger has something to occupy himself with, passing erudite comments on the Euro’s.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Orlando Engelaar looked like he could hold down the defensive midfield spot for the Gunners.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
@Kiwi: Ease off a bit. You’ve been really uptight this off-season IMO. I’m sure AW will do something - after all he himself has acknowledged the frailities. Then again Song just signed a new long term deal
…..
June 9th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Just when you write off the Dutch, they produce a sparkling display. The second goal was a classic. Sneijder and van der Vaart both can play football, are pacy and know where the goal is. Sound like Arsenal footballers.
June 10th, 2008 at 1:26 am
LDE, sorry if I’m detracting from the otherwise positive tone, but has there been any good news?
June 10th, 2008 at 1:37 am
Sheed, when you send me the Crow to eat for deriding your bet on Holland, I’ll like it well done with some Jerk sauce on the side.
June 10th, 2008 at 2:10 am
@kiwi: Depends on what is good news. There hasn’t been anything bad happening either you know…unless u count the Flamster leaving, IcecreamGate, and a speculative Nasri signing.
June 10th, 2008 at 2:45 am
Kiwi, the good news is that there is no bad news (LOL).
Engelaar, Sneijder, Van De Vaart, Van Bronckhorst and Van Der Sar all played magnificently for Holland and the man of the match must go Van Bronkhorst who at 33 displayed tireless defending and attacking. Van B made a goal line clearance at one end, sprinted 2/3 the length of the field and delivered the perfect cross which eventually led to Sneidjer’s goal and then scored Holland’s 3rd with the first headed goal of the tournament.
It’s a pity he never replicated this form when playing for Arsenal.
One game does not make a career but I really liked Engelaar.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:04 am
LDE, yeah to me the Flamster leaving was bad news. I’m neutral on Hleb - although given Wenger’s youth-only replenishment policy that probably makes it bad, Rosicky & RvP’s physical resilience is certainly bad. And I honestly couldn’t care less about Nasri (and Ramsey). So I’m struggling a little to agree with the ‘no bad news’ idea.
International tournaments are fun to watch, but I’d never ever rate them as a good stage to gauge a players club value. History is strewn with players who turned it on for a tournament but never proved value over a long hard season.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:21 am
BBC and Cardiff City website say that Aaron Ramsey has chosen Arsenal.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/cardiff_city/7445528.stm
http://www.cardiffcityfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10335~1325841,00.html
Another 17 year old. Walcott Mk II? Straight into the first team? Song Mk II? What do you make of it?
June 10th, 2008 at 4:26 am
Hey, I told you guys.
http://www.cardiffcityfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10335~1325841,00.html
June 10th, 2008 at 4:29 am
My bad nipuna. You beat me to that.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:57 am
i got a feeling AW is preparing for the worst - 5+6 ruling.
on paper it would affect Arsenal most. yet in 5 or 6 years, by the time it really starts this policy, the English players of other big clubs are close to retirement.
it would be foolish for us to entering an inflated bidding war by then, might as well start collecting the bright young English boys starting from now.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:12 am
Well…we’ll still get the usual complaints about signing one more 17 year old….but i’ve been following this transfer closely….and it feels good to finally come out on top in a transfer tussle with Man Utd. Especially when it was not down to money..but more to do with the history Arsenal has of developing youngsters
June 10th, 2008 at 5:22 am
Ramsey’s capture could mean curtains for Diaby and Denilson. Those two are an enigma as they’re both superb technical players but there’s no real product from either. Diaby only want’s to go forward but lacks the awareness and vision to pose a real threat. Denilson has the awareness but often sits too deep to pose an attacking threat and lacks the presence to be a good DM.
Ramsey’s comparable to Denilson with the way he moves the ball around but adds a bit of a cutting edge in the attack as well as in the tackle. He’s still only seventeen so the sky’s the limit for him. I think he’ll be cover for Fabregas as you can’t really ask him to add steel to our midfield.
Lastly, we need to bring Fabrice Muamba back to Arsenal. I know I’ve said this before but think. If Wenger refuses to play Song at DM then it’s a no-brainer as Muamba will provide all that we need. He’s a tall, strong, hard-working, physical guy who can tackle. He’s young, he already knows the Arsenal way, he’s got two years of BPL experience, and he’s English. He’s refused to sign an extension with Birmingham so I’m thinking three million quid will probably be enough to get him back. I’m sure he’d jump at the chance to return to North London. Muamba to Arsenal is the right answer.
Ramsey and Muamba are two good young signings for only 8 million quid. We could give Diaby and Djourou until Christmas to show and prove. If they dont’ then we could recoup that 8 million when we sell them. Sounds like a winner to me, boys.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:39 am
reading some of the Man U sites, they talked like Ramsey was already their player a few days ago. apparently Ramsey didn’t meet Fergie, it was Gary Nev who showed him around, and only got a phone call from Fergie. While Arsenal actually flew the kid to Switzerland.
Wayne is right, we won this bid mainly because years’ youth policy has earned as a good reputation for the youngsters. regardless of what David “I have made it big” Bentley said, the kids knew that u would get ur chances at Arsenal, the rest is up to you.
yet i think the fact that Arsenal had actually gone all the way to try signing Ramsey must be giving him an impression that he’s more “wanted” at Arsenal. imagine if u were 17, a big club actually flew u to Switzerland where a major tournament is on going and to meet up with the manager, that would surely make u feel like a star, or someone important. especically when we consider Ramsey hadn’t even been a regular starter at Cardiff.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:46 am
oh i forgot ramsey is actually Welsh. does that count as “home grown”?
June 10th, 2008 at 6:27 am
Does anyone know why Wenger refuses to consider/play Song as a DM?
June 10th, 2008 at 6:44 am
CaribKid… it’s still early but they have the front seat now
We will talk after the 3rd game. lol
June 10th, 2008 at 6:46 am
Nipuna, here is what Arsene has said about Song
“Trust me, if I make a decision it is because I know all the characteristics of the player whether they are physical or mental characteristics,” he said.
“When I put a player somewhere, I know why I do. If I play Song at centre back it is because I believe he will be a great centre back for Arsenal Football Club.
“In Song’s case, he can play in central midfield. But can he play 60 games there? I am not convinced.”
June 10th, 2008 at 7:16 am
Gotta love young Carlos Vela. Is he talking like a true Gooner or what?
http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/08/06/10/SOCCER_Tottenham.html&TEAMHD=soccer
June 10th, 2008 at 7:20 am
Bit of good sense from Bert…..
“When you win things you achieve more than anybody else. It follows that you get better contracts and more money.
“I cannot blame them if they have a good contract at another club but I still believe if they stay at the club and have a good season they could do a lot for the club and themselves. Then try new things.
“Most of the players who leave miss the club for lots of reasons. The lifestyle at Arsenal is fantastic. You get so well looked after.
“Next season will be very important for the club and the players.
“They must win something to keep the ambition of everybody and to maintain the hope of every player.
“If we don’t win anything next year it will be difficult to keep everybody happy. If you don’t see any possibility of winning the title they will change their minds.”
June 10th, 2008 at 8:01 am
Yeah I think AW knows whats gonna happen in 5-6 years time. Like he did with the stadium. Like with the takeovers. Like with the economics. And is planning ahead…again..incase of an eventuality. Bert speaks big big sense. Unfortunately sense is rarely heard - like in the case of most fans.
As for Ramsey ..like Nasri I’ll believe it when on Arsenal.com.. nt a minute sooner. He’ll be playing CC next year with FA Cups and the sub of the bench in the 88 routine. Nothing more. Still 5m is a lot..just like for Theo. Hope it translates - as it will with Theo.
June 10th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Sheed, I’ve seen that comment. He doesn’t say why he is not convinced. Not enough strength, not enough stamina, vision, what is it?
June 10th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Obviously nipuna, he’s not gonna come out and say that. When has he ever said that about anyone? Even saying that much is a lot for Arsene Wenger
June 10th, 2008 at 9:32 am
While we gloat that Ramsey chose us over ManU, here is view from the other side of the fence.
http://therepublikofmancunia.com/why-has-ramsey-snubbed-us-for-arsenal/
June 10th, 2008 at 9:35 am
another reason i think it’s we had other options in DM. Flamini played so many games last season it’s difficult for anyone to play there anyway. Gilberto as 2nd choice. And bare in mind AW would still need to find time for Denilson as well.
the question should be asked instead - what IF AW play Song in DM? i think soon Denilson would be asking for a move.
things are always easy for critics - they just have to nitpicking what AW did or did not do. they don’t need to put any other factor into consideration. unfortunately that will never be the case for a manager.
June 10th, 2008 at 9:43 am
That Vela is impressing me already has one sharp dude. Hasn’t even put the shirt on and he already knows the score.
France like Arsenal cannot win when team stack the box unless you have options in attack. The best team so far Holland showed what one option is: an attacking FB. Van Bronckhorst who was ironically replaced by Abidal at Barcelona was MOTD for me.
I like Donadoni. When he came to the NY Metrostars, he was class personified. His intelligence w/ the ball provided me w/ an education of how football should be played. Unfortunately the Metrostar players around him needed remedial help w/ their football abilities. To start the Serie A 5th place team’s entire aging MF was a mistake. It should be noted that Holland played an attacking 4-5-1 that Wenger likes to use. Now all the pundits will jump on the Holland bandwagon. Its early yet. It was great to see a spry RVP. Reminds you why we don’t need to sign another striker (provided Eduardo can REALLY come all the way back).
I hope a Ferguson enjoyed his holiday in the south of France. Will ManU be providing a retraction on the story that had Ramsey practically signed, sealed and delivered? Arrogant and pompous are word that come to mind.
June 10th, 2008 at 10:01 am
@104 - typical Man U arrogrance who probably thought they got the god-given right to recurit every talents, and whoever doesn’t want to play for them are making a mistake of their life… and they wonder why everybody hates Man U (apart from their own fans and the gloryhunters).
June 10th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Andez, what if AW plays Song at CB? Senderos/Djourou ask for a move?
June 10th, 2008 at 10:42 am
@107, while I completely agree that most ManU fans are arrogant, I do wonder what Arsenal fans would have said if Ramsey has chosen ManU. Something to the effect of - it’s all about money!! Remember SWP.
June 10th, 2008 at 10:54 am
i think it’s because Sendy and Djourou are both on the blink of leaving anyway (at least that’s what we have heard, and fans been talking about it, even here). while Denilson remains as a major project under AW.
AW saw Song in training everyday. how often u watched Song? so it’s quite obvious who knows better.
June 10th, 2008 at 10:55 am
@109. of course, that’s why u got FANS for DIFFERENT clubs. if fans only give sticks to his own club while applausing others. what’s the point?
June 10th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Ramsay is good signing. I’ve no problem with this type of young acquistion. It’s an uplifting addition, due to his choosing us over United. It’s not look like we’ve bum rushed some hobo off the streets of Sao Paulo who no one has heard of.
Plus, he looks like an intelligent player who is already physically developed and cerebral. Not one of those emaciated biafrons who need to bulk up to play EPL football i.e Fran Merida.
Lets hope Wenger knocks the youngster thing on the head now though. He’s satisfied his addiction with this signing, he’s got his high and injected himself with the prodigy syringe, so now he should move away from his idealistic dreamer mode and put his brain back into gear and think about the year 2008. That means bringing in three or four players who can realistically make an impression immediately. The squad is getting ridicously young; more so when Hleb leaves.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:54 am
@78
Pepe is CB? Then even more impressive! He dribbles like a CM!
June 10th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Quick question: I was looking at Spain’s roster and didn’t see Jose Antonio Reyes’s name. Does anyone know what happened to him? Is he hurt or was he just left out of the squad?
June 10th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Neova@113,
Pepe is a relocated Brazilian and is a carbon copy of Lucio and the new breed of CB’s coming out of Brazil. Tall, good in the air and technically very sound on the ground.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Jose Reyes hasn’t been in the Spain squad for a long time. He’s no longer a regular at Atletico because, quite frankly, they have someone better. There’s an Argentine kind named Aguero who’s absolutely fantastic. If you haven’t seen him, this kid is like “Messi” fantastic. Atletico won’t be able to hold him for too much longer but they will get a very nice chunk of money for him.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Worthy to note there are relocated Brazilians on approximately 10 of the 16 teams in Euros. Brazil’s largest export? Footballers.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Thanks Joshuad. Add him to the long list of ex-Gunners whose careers nosedived after leaving the Club. It’s