Jun 23
Although it’s not yet on Arsenal.com, according to multiple sites, including the player’s own website, Samir Nasri has joined Arsenal from Marseille for a fee somewhere near 20 million Euros.
The “next Zidane” is widely seen as a replacement for Alex Hleb who may now be going to Germany instead of Spain or Italy if you believe the latest rumors.
Still anyone’s guess what squad number the Frenchman will get, but given that he’s an attacking midfielder, I’d say the safe bet is on Freddie Ljungberg’s old # 8.
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:57 pm
I wanna see Hleb stays, coz that way we will have more depth
As for the number… it’s either 8 or 14… we will see
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Oh, and for those of you who haven’t seen it yet, Vela got the # 12 and Ramsey # 16
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Wow someone rushed to update Nasri’s wikipedia page as well
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:21 pm
With Nasri finally signed, a few questions now remain:
1) Will Arsene sign a replacement for Flamini?
If Hleib leaves I think he will sign a DM. If Hleib stays we probably will end up using any combination of Gilberto, Diaby, Djourou, Toure and Song. If Hleib goes to Barcelona we could get Ya Ya, De La Red or Granero to fill the DM spot + cash which may not be a bad deal in the long run.
2) Will Arsene allow Ade to go?
If he sells Ade to Barca we obviously will need a replacement and that could come in the form of Etoo (unlikely because of salary requirements) or Santa Cruz. Not sure of this scenario or what is going on in Arsene’s and Ade’s minds.
3) Will we get a replacement for Lehman?
From my point of view, Mannone would not be an ideal third choice at this stage of his career and Fabianski is still untested at the highest level. Almost seems like Arsene would have little choice but to acquire and experienced backup GK.
June 24th, 2008 at 12:48 am
Sorry, no replacement for Lehmann. Almunia has been given the #1 shirt and Mannone has been given #24.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:23 pm
to reply a ctpa post on previous thread:
i think our annual training camp in Austria is CRUCIAL to us. Yes we didn’t win anything last season. but a proper training camp in a quiet area allowed us to prepare our team more properly, physically and mentally as the media had acknowleged, early of the season we were the fittest side in the Premiership. As season progressed, there were more reasons to trigger our downfall. those were something out of our calculation.
there’s such a fine margin when comes to winning and losing these days, we should do whatever we can to prepare ourselves, rather than spending a money spinning trip during the preseason.
and don’t forget our season starts early next term as well, with CL pre-qualifying round to prepare. So a proper preseason preparation is even more important.
of course, to expand the market in US or Far East is important to the club’s finanical aspect. but football is still football, FOOTBALL has to come first.
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Agreed Andez@5,
Also, Arsenal has been fairly smart and does a lot of branding through their youth camps and academies. Interesting to note they have done so in India (Along with China the two emerging nations and second largest population) with unmitigated success.
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
@CaribKid: Indeed..the EPL is hugely followed in India. Primarily since 2000 and probably a little before that as well. There was news in the papers as well regarding Arsenal picking up taleneted Under 15’s to train with them and about a partnership.
Ofcourse Arsene wasn’t coming down himself, it was one of his coaching staff who was in the news. But really the EPL is growing all the time in India. There is a gigantic pro ManU bias here though both in terms of following and TV Times but Arsenal do get mentioned here and there. Its primarily ManU though and the great Ronaldo always gets mentioned…by even people who know zilch about football.
Arsenal support is more in pockets sadly…hope to see that change. But it is growing ..all the time. Hopefully there will be more partnerships and maybe Le Boss comes down to Mumbai some day
so I can hop across and meet him.
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
l_d_e,
Did not know you were in India.Fell in love with the people and the place when I was over there and will definitely be making a return trip next year. I was up north and went to Delhi, Varanarse, Agra, Jaipur and Khajaraho (had to see the Karma Sutra Temples) and then over to Nepal for a few days. What a stupendous cuture.
Next time I’ll be heading south to Mumbai and other yet to be determined places.
Wish you all the luck.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:21 am
Glad to hear you enjoyed your trip. Do come down (west) not south
to Mumbai. Its very different everywhere - the culture and way of life and the way people move about. Maybe we could even meet if we’re lucky — that said ..I havent yet met Wayne or Nipuna yet 
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Caridkid, good post. Here are my thoughts:
1) Arsene needs to sign a DM. We have some guys that can do it but I am unsure about all. Maybe Diaby could fill in full time (he has been getting game time on the left to get games and settle in the EPL). But a tried and true veteran DM would make us all (including the players) feel at ease. Toure and Djourou need to stay at the back and Song is not ready yet. A veteran DM (aged 27-29) could fill in until Song is ready (in 2 seasons there is another African Cup of Nations to deal with).
2) Arsenal should bend to keep Ade. RvP isn’t happy about solid player leaving and won’t sign a new contract until he is happy. I’d hate to see them both go. But if Ade does leave for Uefa Cup play (heheheh AC!) then Arshevin or Santa Cruz would do well. SC scored less goals but played in less games and had WAAAAAY less chances. He’s a better pure scorer than Ade or anyone else on the team is. He’d be stellar for Arsenal.
But we do have Walcott and Bendtner who are playing much better, plus Vela joining and Eduardo and RvP coming back. So we could loose Ade and not sign anyone else up front, which is what I fear. Bendtner could go, even on loan to one of th clubs that came up- then we can see how really good he is playing day-in, day-out in the EPL.
3) We need a true number 2 (or real number 1). Pletokosa of Croatia or want-away Celtic keeper Boruc could be great signings.
Having a few extra players this year may help the stars avoid unnecessary injuries. We really missed Rosicky and his late runs and killer instinct in the left. Our big, veteran boys are coming back, plus not African tournament this year will seriously help.
This is our year!!!! Bring on the Quadruple!!
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:40 pm
That just about sums it up.
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:50 pm
PS- I am really stoked about Nasri- he is talented on the ball, has grat vision and can finish and likes to shoot. Hleb doesn’t have all of these qualities (namely doesn’t shoot much and rarely scores). More goals coming from the right (ala Freddy) will be nice and he will instanlty be in sync with fellow Frenchman Sagna. What a 1-2 pcombo that will be.
Hleb can get us cash to sign Yaya or another solid DM player. If we get another DM I bet Gilberto will go on leaving us with the new signing, Diaby and Song in the center, which will be pretty good.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:04 pm
I don’t think we will be able to sign Yaya unless Hleb goes to Barcelona and there is some agreement. Plus the Nasri and Ramsey signings definitely show that Hleb will inevitably be leaving.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Oh well it was worth a shot. The thought of 1.3 billion Chinese wearing Arsenal replica kits had me drooling.
With the arrival of 2 new attackers, it is important that they be inculcated into the Arsenal way away from the media and distractions.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Don’t worry ctpa, India is a close second with 1.18 billion. Arsenal even has an Indian team of Arsenal trialists coming to play in their youth tournament later on this year, and better yet, they all speak English.
I was in India over the new year for three weeks and to my amazement never had a language problem. Funny thing too was that I saw a few Arsenal jerseys and Bob Marley posters. Surprise, Surprise!!!!! (LOL).
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:20 pm
I forgot,. Their Arsenal Jerseys were all made in China. I had some shipped from China to the US as gifts to my friends at 1/3 the normal cost. Pretty high quality and up to date.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:08 pm
I don’t consider the third arrival Ramsey, an ‘attacker’ at this point in time.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:17 pm
http://youngguns.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/nasri-senior-confirms-samir-has-signed-for-arsenal/.
This explains why Nasri’s website was down. The Father jumped the gun on the announcement. Father’s pride no doubt. Have you seen some much hulla-balloo over a signing in your life? The kid is only being compared to Zidane but he is not there yet for crying out loud. I hope he can stand the heat because the kitchen is about to get mighty hot.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:32 pm
and this explains why the wikipedia page has been changed back to show Nasri’s current club to be Marseille.
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Now the most important things are to focus on are retaining Adebayor and signing a DM. The thought of Gilberto playing at all for the Gunners almost makes me sick to my stomach (and I’m not saying that as a metaphor). If we can manage to accomplish these two goals, next season is looking very, very good. (Now that we have Nasri, I think holding onto Hleb is far less important than these other two goals.)
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:40 pm
for those who believed just because the manager takes a strong stand, then he could fight off an attempt from other clubs to steal one of his players, see what Ronaldo got to say when Fergie refused to let him go:
Asked if he believed Fergie would be angry, Ronaldo replied: “I don’t mind if people get upset.
“It is my decision. It is what I want.”
In other words - He doesn’t give a damn how Fergie thinks.
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:53 pm
this Ronaldo saga also shattered another theory - some suggested our players are leaving because we did not win anything.
Well, Ronaldo just won a double.
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Nope ur wrong. Arsenal is doomed. Its a horrible club to play for and ManU is the greatest club and has balls to keep players on the bench
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Andez, that’s the thing that strikes me about this whole Ronaldo thing. He just won the Premier League and the Champions League in one season, arguably the two biggest prizes in club football, he collected his second PFA award, and is well on his way to FIFA Player of the Year. And he wants to LEAVE?!?! It’s insane! Who’d want to leave a club at which they found that kind of success, and all by the age of 23? For the life of me, I still cannot figure it out.
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:55 pm
the question is, what would he stay. He has won everything there is to win with Man UTD. He has to go find bigger challenges
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:55 pm
The question is, what why he stay. He has won everything there is to win with Man UTD. He has to go find bigger challenges
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Ronaldo probably prefers the prospect of playing in a sunnier climate with less physical players and a chance to be closer to home… or at least a country that feels more like home. Besides even if Real paid him more, with endorsements alone, it’s not as though he needs any more money.
Why else would anyone not from England want to move away from the biggest sports franchise in the world, while at the top of their game? Granted, Real is in the top 5, but United is still bigger.
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Ronaldo does not like the physical game in the EPL and is always complaining that referees do not protect him enough. Having won the CL, EPL and PFA twice he has no more challenges left in England.
He will now go to a softer league with the Spanish Manu (Real Madrid) where he will make as much money if not more, extend his football career by a few years, do tons of Spanish speaking commercials and get his own “Cesc Fabregas” show.
I think you are going to see more of this happening if the English FA does not come down on referees to protect players more.
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Oh, I forgot. You are right, climate helps too. More tanning days.
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Its true. I think thats a major reason why Hleb is leaving as well. Call him whatever you want…not being able to bear or a soft guy..whatever. Seeing a colleague’s foot hanging off isn’t exactly re-assuring.
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
i agree. as said before, the fact that the refs allow so much to get away in EPL sooner or later is driving the skillful players away. the refs can make 1000 thousand mistakes and u still have fans saying “shit happens”, yet every player only gets a pair of legs afterall.
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:56 pm
I can see more people about to moan at this new design in a week. Saying its better than the previous one but takes too long to scroll down
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:26 pm
LDE, how did u get those smily icon btw?! i can only settle for this : )
btw, i like this new interface though, at least now we know who’s talking to who haha! but it will take a while to get use to.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:15 am
Even Sachin got one as well on top so that means there is support on AA for smileys. It maybe because of the browser you’re using which doesn’t automatically translate the smileys. Are you on Internet Exploder??? Try using Firefox once…
June 24th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
oh yeah maybe that’s the difference. i m using IE.
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:28 pm
20M Euros is a LOT of money for a 21 year old. This should dispel the notion that we don’t have a big budget and Arsene doesn’t spend big money. At the same time, it also strengthens the notion that Arsene will spend only on youth and potential and rarely, if ever, on established talent. One reason could be the sell on value. It is not a bad thing as long as Nasri doesn’t ask for a move to Real or Barca in 2/3 years.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:12 am
http://www.eufootball.biz/Finance/2406084-Arsenal-Highbury-development-project.html
This news is just in….I said earlier that the sub-prime crisis could be a factor with Arsenal’s finances and this sort of confirms it. I hope it doesn’t affect Arsenal’s finances badly…but this is just one more reason..why it pays to be prudent rather than spending as if everything is going to be hunky dory and projections are going to go exactly as per plan. Imagine if the club had spent money expecting all these cash flows to come in right on time. We would have probably been facing a liquidity crisis in the next year or so.
It’s just a matter of time before some really big clubs go the Leeds way……may seem far fetched now…but I can easily see it coming. When it does happen….and Arsenal have lasted the course (and I hope they do)…..you will see plenty of plaudits coming the way of Arsenal by the same media which is hell bent on criticizing the club right now.
@CaribKid…I’m from India too..and i agree with LDE when he says that the Arsenal support is miniscule as compared to Man Utd. But hopefully things are changing a bit…the club is trying to make a presence here and should find some more support over the years.
Cheers,
Wayne
June 24th, 2008 at 1:16 am
You seem to have a lot of financial insight - you got an MBA or something for sure
June 24th, 2008 at 2:37 am
@LDE…Good Guess…Passed my MBA from IIM Indore last year
…Hope i was not spouting too much MBA jargon though 
…… Actually my job involves evaluating and tracking business models and evaluating financials of companies to whom we have given debt. That’s why though I admit that Wenger may not be the perfect manager but for Arsenal Football Club he is the best….I wholeheartedly agree with him when he says that a club should never operate above it’s means even if it means letting go of players who are holding the club to ransom. Wenger has combined football and business acumen into a near perfect mix.
June 24th, 2008 at 5:11 am
Yeah I remember seeing something like that on your blog once about IIM, the only time I visited it a long time back. Prolly that ws there at the back of my mind when I asked you about ur MBA. So I guess I already knew
. As long as you stick to the financials of AFC I’ll read 
June 24th, 2008 at 2:47 am
Sub-prime coupled with increasing cost of crude oil is sending inflation through the roof. Oil prices ultimately affects both goods and services and so there is less available income to spend on non-neccessities.
If this is not halted in near future we stand to see a worldwide recession as we have never encountered before.
Those clubs which are financially prudent now will be survivors so I am sure Arsenal will be here to stay and provide us great entertainment for many more years to come. So, for those wish us to blow our budgets and spend wildly, I hope your wishes do not come true..
June 24th, 2008 at 5:12 am
Yeah seriously…everything has gone up here in India starting from petrol. Food,veggies everything…
June 24th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Wayne, LDE: From what I remember from my visit to India from a few years ago, the Man Utd support in India was crazy. Although I came across a few Arsenal fans but they were in the minority.
Ofcourse, in Canada they make no secret of their love for Man Utd. Before it was because of Beckham and now thanks to Owen H. What is worse for me that I live in the city where Owen H. grew up and was spotted by Bayern, so anything he does is front page news. When he signed for Man Utd, my reaction of sighs were not because of footballing terms, but because I knew his presence there would surely mean the papers here would ensure we got the most coverage from their ex-citizen.
But there are places where Arsenal has good support. I remember from a trip to Morocco a few years ago, the only English team a majority of the people loved was Arsenal. At that time, the Arsenal shirts were made in Morocco as well. The red currant shirts from Highbury’s final season were made in Morocco. And you could assess how much support there was by the replica shirts available in the market. Arsenal had Henry, Pires and Vieira shirts in abudance (there were a few Bergkamp ones around but it was mostly the French players). Man Utd shirts was hardly seen and Chelsea was invisible. Ofcourse, I am not sure how much the impact of Ronaldo has caused there in terms of his shirts moving to the top of the pile.
But recently, I came across a very interesting picture. The NY times had a picture of an american vehicle making the regular patrols in Baghdad and at the bottom of the picture, you could see a little boy on a bike in a Pires shirt
June 25th, 2008 at 5:28 am
From what I’ve seen (and I play football every weekend with about 20 odd people), ManU is easily the largest supported club in India. Arsenal has very few supporters. Actually, Chelsea has gained in numbers thanks to their recent “trophies”.
As I keep telling LDE all the time, to increase your fan base and brand, you need to win. Only a limited number of people will support Arsenal because they play good football (and many of those would have started because Arsenal won something sometime back). All the Arsenal supporters I know started around 2002 time frame. That is not a coincidence. Needless to say, Liverpool has very few supporters.
June 25th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Look, I speak just for myself. I am not talking marketing here - I am talking football as an entity by itself. I support Arsenal because of the purity of their football and the attempt to play it the right way. If that stops and I’m not ashamed to admit it - i will have trouble supporting Arsenal. Obviously ..2002 because football was sporadic before that on TV here as well though I guess it must’ve been there.
I hooked onto Arsenal not because they won the double - it was because of dear old Bergy and his silky skills. So sure brands are great and players will leave if they dont win but I’m not even talking all that. I am just saying - As long as the football is good I dont mind the transfer merry go round. Though I’d love it if we kept winning as well — coz that’ll make the football even better.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:12 am
Nasri will want a move for sure in 3-4 years coz by that time AW will mostly be gone as well and loving Fat Usmanov would have taken over. And thats probably all the money we have as well - for whatever reasons - so it really dispels nothing. The Hleb/Ade sale is probably funding this as well..I could be wrong.
June 25th, 2008 at 3:28 am
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12876_3733133,00.html
Wenger on Arshavin - “I wish I’d seem him at 21 or 22. I predict he will come to the Premier League, or go to a big club in Italy. The way he plays is something very special.”
I suppose the days of Arsenal signing anyone over 25 years are over.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:13 am
http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=750211.
This is bad news. Arsenal’s price has gone up and that is the ominous sign of a negotiation in progress. . Fabregas is now using the Euro2008 spotlight to ask that Adebayor “make the best decision” about his future. With Adebayor, we could be a scary team next season. Without Adebayor, we are relying on RVP, kids, and a striker to be determined. Roque Santa Cruz is an option but he does not strike fear in the heart of defenders IMO.
June 25th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
To all those moaning for that big name signing:
http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=747107
June 25th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
Thanks for this link LDE..
What frustrates me about this Ade and Hleb rumour is that if they do indeed leave, then I will lose respect for them. They were so close to winning the title that they atleast should give it another go. Both of them did let the team down on some occasions but if they they had given it their all in that rough patch of games, then I might not felt as frustrated.
I remember 2003 and when Arsenal lost the title. I thought that bunch of players might give up or leave but they came back stronger and went unbeaten. Same with that 2001 F.A Cup final loss. They won the final next year (along with the league) and that was amazing. I remember after Arsenal won the league in 2002, Bergkamp said that Arsenal should not have to wait another 4 years for a title, so it is good to see the team gave it their go to get wins in the following years.
Yes these players can make more money elsewhere, but they are not making peanuts either. Maybe Arsenal should start employing financial advicers for these players who can teach them to properly invest their money and get the most out of their lowly sum of 35,000 pounds a week (Ade). As opposed to having agents who are looking to maximize their own profits by getting their players to move..
June 25th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Interesting link LDE. that also brings up one point - WHY the Italian/Spanish sides every summer came and tried nicking players away from Arsenal?
our wage structure obviously was one key factor. but it also showed that the quality of the players we got. Why didn’t anyone try to steal Wayne Rooney away? Yes, he’s expensive. yet as the Ronaldo-saga has testified, if you are good enough, those clubs won’t care how much you cost, they would still keep on coming trying to nick you away.
as for life after Arsenal. once in a blue moon, someone would escape the curse that it’s all downhill after leaving Arsenal. but more often than not, they would struggle. The latest example - Jose Reyes. Now wanting to leave Atl. Madrid, after failed to score a single goal in 26 matches last term.
so go ahead Ade, Hleb, if you are so keen to ruin ur own career for some quick bucks, nobody could stop you.
June 25th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Indeed Andez this was the critical part.
- Then there is the most interesting group - those who when they left the club were thought to be moving onwards and upwards. This group includes Emmanuel Petit, Marc Overmars, Nicolas Anelka, Patrick Vieira, Thierry Henry, Edu, Giovanni van Bronckhorst, Jose Antonio Reyes, Ashley Cole, Mathieu Flamini and possibly soon, Emmanuel Adebayor and Alexander Hleb.
But yeah I’m quite sure people will come back and rant about Anelka being a success in the CL semi at RM and Paddy winning 3 titles in a bribe ridden league. Not his fault ofcourse - but really the quality just wasnt there last year in Italian football.
——————–
Regarding Rooney he is probably quite good but no one thinks he’ll want to leave ManU as an English guy in England’s biggest club. I think thats a factor as well. But you’re right - Ronaldo carried the team last season on his own practically on his own. No matter how much some folks here talk about Tevez Nani etc without CR they were screwed last season and Chelsea or us wud have won it. 40 million for Ade though??? 40 million?? Its an inflated market - a ridiculously inflated market.
June 25th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
i also agree with that article in ur link - perhaps when AW looks back, he would have a bit of regret for letting Robert Pires goes.
Wenger should have awared of the fact that Pires’ biggest asset is his INTELLIGENCE. Arguably the most intelligent footballer (along with Berkgamp) ever played for Wenger’s Arsenal. A player like that will have no problem keep playing until his late 30s.
now we probably appreicated even more of Berkgamp’s role at the past. Not only he’s a great player, but the fact his presence had helped younger players like Thierry Henry, Vieira developed.
it’s like Eric Cantona to Man Utd when the Beckham generation first emerged. Arguably it’s Cantona’s greatest contribution to Man Utd. for without him, Becks, Scholes the likes may never be able to develop as properly as they had. and be able to bring United the success in their early days.
ideally, Henry could be that man for us - helping us to bring the young generatoin through. I believe this was what Wenger originally planned. yet in the end he probably had forgotton a fact that Henry himself is always like a kid - brilliant, but emotional. Hardly the inspirational leader we needed.
Pires, on the other hand, is a low keyed team player. he may not be a leader. but he would be not a destructive factor to the team. and his experience would help the youngsters.
but of course, Arsenal’s one year extension policy for players over 30 will never change. so we had scarificed an experience player for our principle. that i can understand.
June 25th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Hey ctpa, I feel your pain on the Adebayor situation. I told you guys just last week that I fully expected to hear “forty million for Adebayor” mentioned and so it has. I also said that Milan would pay that because they’re desperate. They don’t have any strikers. They can run a 4-5-1 with Kaka behind Ade and be a very deadly team. They won’t need to buy another striker. Lord knows we don’t need to lose Adebayor; only if he want’s to go but if he goes, we need to get paid properly for him.
Some people don’t like him but if he’s in your team, what’s not to absolutely love about the guy? At twenty-three, he’s already one of the most complete and dangerous strikers in the world and he’s only going to get better. He’s got potential to be even better than Drogba. If Milan do put up the funds, it will be money well spent for them but replacing him will be almost impossible. It’ll be almost like replacing Paddy’s as having him in the team was almost like having an extra player. What team wouldn’t want a player like Ade?
June 25th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Agreed Joshuad, and the problem is we will have to change our shape and formation which we became comfortable with last season.
June 25th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
I read the article and agreed with pretty much all the points it made. One thing it didn’t touch on though, that LDE sort of mentioned with his comment about Rooney not wanting to leave Man U, is that we don’t have any English players right now, and have always had very few. Teams dont go after Rooney, cause like LDE said he’s an Englilsh guy playing for the biggest English club. It’s always more difficult to convince a player to leave his home league, especially when its one of the better leagues, and even more so when he plays for one of the top teams in the league. Arsenal have no English players, so this isn’t an obstacle continental clubs have to deal with.
June 25th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Every once in a while you see a player and you just think, man he is simply a good footballer. There is just something special about that player. It’s the feel I got when I first saw David Silva play. This past season, he didn’t really shine because most of the season he was playing for an idiot (Koeman) but the season before when he was playing under Sanchez-Flores I was just like wow.
I remember talking to a few guys about him and thinking there’s no way Valencia would ever let him go. Well, in a couple short years, things have changed quite dramatically and he’s being rumored with a move away. It would be quite lovely to see him in the red and white of Arsenal. It would be hand-in-glove stuff as he’d fit right in. I believe he’ll go to Real Madrid.
Andez, I agree with you about Pires. I remember back in ‘02, before he did his ACL, thinking this guy always makes the right decision with the ball. He’s got to be a coaches dream. I believe that Rosicky can provide that same thing as he seldom makes a mistake with the ball. He’s a younger version of Bobby so an upgrade. It’s a shame he’s been injured but I believe this surgery will put those injury issues behind him. Like I said last week, I don’t blame the players for not being fit but rather the physio for practicing bad medicine. I just wish he was fit for the pre-season.
June 26th, 2008 at 4:03 am
Agreed Joshuad, except Real won’t go for Silva if they get Ronaldo. They already have a surfeit of attacking MF’s in Robinho, Robben, Sneijder, Gago, Babtista and Garcia along with young guns like De La Red and Granero.
Would love to have him at Arsenal, but also can’t see that due to Fab, Rosicky, Vela, Nasri, Walcott, Eboue (yes, Eboue, he is not going anywhere) and Hleib. Add Ramsey into the mix with Diaby and a host of young Gunners on the horizon and arsene would have fits trying to provide playing time.
I also think any other MF we get need to be able to be used as a Fab replacement in case of injury with out any noticeable drop in quality. Names like Diego, Van De Vaart, Moutinho, Zhirkov and Deco spring to mind.
June 26th, 2008 at 5:35 am
Which one of those guys is going to come to be a back-up for Fabregas?
June 25th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
I think there is quite alot not to like about Adebayor. Record-breaking offside tally, coughing up of possession, inabilty to anything other than the basic when it comes to vision on the ball, selfishness and unwillingness to play someone through unless as a last resort, lack of composure, and finally, unreliable mentality and question marks over hunger to continue to improve and maintain work rate. The last one is especially true when one realises how important attitude and work rate is important to his game.
I think we will improve if he is goes. He has got some useful qualities but dilutes our strengths too much for my liking. He reminds me of Henry in his last year he. I just look at our team and think we would prosper without him and his negative characteristics.
June 26th, 2008 at 6:05 am
Adebayor brings much more good than bad to the team. The main thing I see is the incredible potential to be better than Drogba in the next year or two. Milan and Barcelona see it as well and it’s why they’re willing to pay so much for him.
There’s absolutely no evidence that Ade’s attitude/work rate is going to subside. Sure Wenger challenged him to continue his development but that’s to ensure he doesn’t rest on his laurels; what coach wouldn’t challenge a player with so much potential? Sure, he’s missed some chances but what striker doesn’t? Henry missed just as many. With that, Ade’s still got one of the top conversion rates in world football.
Adebayor can’t be stopped by any one single CB. He’s got pace, power, aerial ability, work rate, and he’s a big boy; in short, he’s the total package. Milan saw it first hand when he worked the piss out of their entire back line and it’s why they’re willing to pay that money. Look at how much he’s improved in the time he’s been here. You can’t be so myopic and only look at what he did last year but what he’s got the ability to become. Trust me, he’s far from his peak.
June 25th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Retarded grammar alert! Wish the edit option would be implemented so I wouldn’t cringe through my own posts.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Schweinsteiger’s two goals in the tournament were the textbook example of how a wideman should make his run into the box from wide, when his opposite flank teammate charging down the (opposite) flank.
hopefully someone among our coaching staffs has taped it down and shows it to Walcott/Eboue/Hleb(if he stays)/Rosicky.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:55 am
I do like the kind of commitment Adebayor showed last season…and I do feel he’s important to the team. But for once I agree with Mazza ….if 40 million is being offered to us and more importantly he wants to leave….i would say take the offer and use that to buy a experienced ‘world class’ striker..for 40 million i think we should get one.
The reason I say is that….Wenger has been previously quoted as saying that both Adebayor and Bendtner are similar and may not be able to play in the same team together. Secondly I don’t think they get on well at all. I also found it a bit strange that Wenger came out at the end of the season and categorically stated that Ade would have to keep working hard in order to maintain his goal scoring…probably a gentle reminder to Ade that a career is not made by just 1 great season.
Adebayor’s agent has been quoted as saying that we are looking for a replacement before we agree to a deal with Milan. The best possible scenario is ..Arsenal using the 40 miilion to buy someone with pace and clinical finishing..definetly not a youngster but a big name …..and promote Bendtner from within as a replacement to Adebayor.
Much as I like Adebayor….i feel he wastes too many chances…..and i’m not saying this because he wants away. The article itself mentions that he’s probably wasted more than he’s scored. He scored a lot at Arsenal…because the team creates so many chances. I don’t think that’s the way Milan play though…when the fashion a chance it would have to be clinically finished….would you trust Adebayor to do that?…somehow I don’t think so. So if this deal goes through…i would say that a few months from now and if Bendtner plays like the way he did in the latter half of the season…it would be another feather in the Wenger transfer cap.
June 26th, 2008 at 4:21 am
Only thing Wayne, the only similarities between Bendtner and Adebayor are their height and heading ability. Bendtner likes to come from behind the defense and is a better passer, but lacks the pace, work rate, movement and pressure which is Ade personified.
Bendtner is not a traget man in the mode of an Ade, Drogba or Van Nistelroy and is better served when playing in a 4-4-2 with another striker such as Eduardo or a David Villa. A pairing of Bendtner and RVP strikes fear in only the faintest of hearts. Bendtner could score 25 goals
As I have steadfastly maintained, losing Ade changes our shape and limits our formation versatility. Bendtner could score 25 goals and still not have half the impact Ade gives us because of his ability to stretch defenses which in turn allows our mid field to dominate possession and wear defenses down. This was a major factor in us scoring a lot of late goals last season.
June 26th, 2008 at 4:33 am
Once again guys, the myth of Ade wasting too many chances and that any decent forward could score 30 or 40 goals with the type of service given by the mid field, is being bandied about again on this site and in a host of other Arsenal Blogs.
Anyone who believes in that myth should take the time to do a little research like I did a few months ago and look at his strike ratios, goals per minutes played, goals per shots taken, goals per shots on target taken, before making this comment. His stats all compare favorable with or exceeds the top strikers in the world last year.
In fact, Maxim, which the leading sport statistical organization in the world rated him only below Ronaldo in the EPL taking into account all statistical categories.
June 26th, 2008 at 5:35 am
Most football fans are opinionated, biased and favour specific players or hate others. They find it difficult to look at things objectively although they tell themselves that they do and actually believe they do. I was that way till a while back. Nowadays I’ve started looking at data more than ever before and talking instead of fabricating things based on my opinionated beliefs.
Having said that - sometimes I feel Ade was a stopgap for Bendtner. Ade was a stopgap to prevent us from getting bullied and allow the team to grow. Whether Ade is still needed or not and whether NB can be better or not — only time will tell.
The biggest plus in Ade’s favour is his exceptional workrate and big heart. The biggest plus in Bendtner’s favour is his intelligence and vision.
The biggest flaw in Adebayor is his poor finishing at times.
The biggest flaw in Bendtner is to play as a lead striker for 50 games a season and torment CB’s like Ade.
The red pill or the blue pill - u have a choice.
June 26th, 2008 at 6:36 am
Bendtner, at his very best, will never be as good as Adebayor was this past season. Adebayor, if he stays at Arsenal, is going to be even better next year. Being as objective as I possibly can, I respect the fact that Bendtner seems to have a better footballing brain than Ade (as he was developed at our academy) but that doesn’t mean Adebayor is stupid.
The reality is we don’t need somone who’s a good passer trying to lead our line. Our team is stocked full of pretty-passing playmakers. What we need is an “Iron man”; a strong, pacy guy who’s as hard as woodpecker lips who can be the tip of the Arsenal sword who can lead the line properly and be an imposing physical threat. We need a presence who can wreak havoc on an entire defensive line and who can score goals. We need someone who defenders will be like, “FUCK, I don’t feel like dealing with this son of a bitch for ninety fucking minutes”. I’m sorry boys, but Bendtner is not putting that kind of fear in anybody. What we need is balance and dynamism, and that’s what Adebayor gives us.
I swear guys, if we lose Ade and count on Bendtner to lead our line, we’ll be having the same discussions next summer that we had last summer; that’ll be people bitching that we need some body other than van Persie that’s not afraid to score goals. Problem is our midfielders wont’ have any space to score because Bendtner can’t make it for them.
Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think so. In fact, most of the time I’m right. Time will tell.
June 26th, 2008 at 7:11 am
Fair enough. If Ade goes and RVP gets crocked with Dudu still out and Theo and Carlos Vela are playing up front with NB. Its not exactly re-assuring though both are wonderful talents(this is going by the Vela hype). Maybe NB can get Ade’s qualities in a year? After all he is one of the few few few guys AW recalled after a loan spell and has challenged. Surely he’s not that bad either.
That said Ade does offer a lot lot more and is an absolute pest. Maybe the year after next - thats 09-10 - NB will be ready ..before that I’m not completely sure.
June 26th, 2008 at 7:54 am
I think we do need a passing outlet up front. We are unbalanced in that sense. We have/had Hleb and Fabregas in midfield but then we have the ugly duckling up front who puts a spoke in passing moves with his lack of on the ball class. How many times last season did we just chuck away possesssion with Toure and Fabregas’s tedious long balls over the top to Ade? It only worked once against West Ham, and even then Ade nearly ended up in the stands after scoring!
I think it’s myth that we need a ‘iron man up front’. Barcelona often played with Etoo, Messi, and Ronaldinho up front- no real bruiser up front- and still effortlessly cut through the lines. Arsenal can do the same. Amp up the technical level with a technical striker and we can stick to mastering our possession game. There can be enough variety in the plan A without needing a Plan B. With Bendtner we have someone who can play the technical game but also step and slam a header home. Bendtner is far better than Ade in the air if you look at how they scored their headed goals last season. Bendtner nearly always bullied a defender and beat them in the air, while Ade’s headers were in open space and he didn’t have much competition.
Usually I’m right as well, Denilson anybody? ;^)
June 26th, 2008 at 6:51 am
@CaribKid….I did qualify that post by saying that Adebayor should go if he wants to go. One of the biggest things going for him last season was his desire and willingness to work hard for the team. Take that away and he will be a shadow of his former self. That is why Wenger made the statement he did at the end of last season….probably there were murmurings of a new deal at that time itself.
I’m sure that Adebayor may go on to be a great striker…but one thing he is definetly not is a clinical finisher. The stats may say otherwise…but whenever i’ve watched him play…everytime he gets a chance and scores…it’s more a feeling of relief that he scored…rather than expecting that he will. Maybe that’s just me though
And more importantly..i said that we would need to replace him with a big name with the 40 million that we may get for him….Bendtner and RVP by themselves will definetly not be able to carry the team through. It would be more like new striker and RVP..with Bendtner coming of the bench when we need the plan B.
Cheers
June 26th, 2008 at 7:40 am
Stats are bullshit, that’s why people like myself pay no attention to them. It is utter stupidity to forgo your own opinion on a player and place it effectively in the hands of a stats sheet. Zinedane Zidane had notoriously mediocre stats while Frank Lampard has great stats. We all know who is the better player though don’t we?
I think Adebayor is an average to mediocre target man. He angles his runs to far from goal because he knows he has not got the technique to stand his ground in a more central position and take the ball down- unless we’re playing Derby County. He is usless in the air for a target man in terms of winning long balls and flicking them on. So what we have with Adebayor is a relatively pacy target man who makes average runs which end up with us passing around the area because by the time he commands the ball everyone is back in position and any advantage is gone
Bendtner is actually the more traditional target man because he more adept at flicking balls through and finding runners. Which could be seen with Eduardo’s second goal against Everton.
Bendtner in terms of talent has more in his locker than Ade but it’s all up to him. He had some dreadful performances last season so it’s no certainty he’s going to make the grade.
June 26th, 2008 at 9:47 am
I still haven’t seen a damned thing making this signing “official” or really heard anything about it.
Where are the facts?
June 26th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Eto’o, Messi, and Ronaldinho don’t play in England and which one can play as a lone striker with the same effect that Adebayor can? Who in England can, besides Drogba? Maybe Torres but he’s got pace and power also.
Poor performances and he still got thirty goals. I’ll take goals however I can get them. I’ll pass on the over-elaboration around the goal for someone who’s sole purpose is to slam the ball home. We’ve got plenty of the pretty players in the team and need the balance that a strong, direct player provides.
Strikers like Henry, Anelka, Drogba, Torres, Yakubu, and Adebayor like to make runs out wide because most CB’s don’t like to be out there one on one. They like having the cover of their CB partner or their keeper. You’ve got to be a pacy and strong CB with good technique to play against one of those strikers or you’re going to get skull-drug, as many defenders have been against those strikers. And I seem to remember Adebayor scoring several goals when he simply out jumped both CB’s and even keepers. It hasn’t been that long ago.
LDE, Bendtner won’t develop the qualities that Adebayor has because he’ll never be fast enough or strong enough. He’s a descent enough technician and I’ve never called him a bad player, but we’ve got enough technical guys in the team and Bendtner, while supremely confident, doesn’t come with a real cutting edge. We’ve already lost Flamini and can do without losing another steely player, even for forty million. We’ll become soft again.
June 26th, 2008 at 10:43 am
@ mazza:
It is a bit foolish to compare us to Barcelona when Barca play in Spain and we play in England. NOBODY gets excited about corners and freekicks over there as they do over here. England is far, far, FAR more aerial and physical. All a small top striker has to do in Spain is fall and the ref will definitely blow for a foul. Barca dont have to face, “get-in-their-face” football all season like we do.
If we sell Ade and buy NO fast wingers we will be absolutely NO stretch whatsoever. Arsenal has it is has no pace ANYWHERE in the team, we have no strong physique anywhere on the team. We have already lost Flamini who only added hardwork yet had a big impact. We are becoming WEAKER - physically. We are already one of the slowest and smallest in size and strength in a physical league.
With Ade, he might have oafish tendencies, but he TIRES the fuck out of CBs allowing the midfielder (ie. Cesc or Rosicky) to score a late goal.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Well, maybe the fans in Spain are bit more intelligent than England.
I remember clearly Barcelona playing the most physical team in world football twice at Stamford Bridge and pinning them back and running them ragged without a bruising target man. They used pace and technique to nullify Terry and Co. Terry might say Adebayor was hard to handle in that one particular game in 06 but he probably enjoyed and relished the battle. Etoo was probably alot less enjoyable to combat and then the Cameroonian goes and compounds matters by scoring an ‘English’ goal in the second game! Outmanouvered in both areas.
If you play quick and technical football with pace and precision you do not need olympic sprinters. I remember Arsenal playing lovely precision football against Fulham at the start of the season without Ade and it worked because all the players in the team were technical. Hleb played behind Van Persie then. Fulham may be a but shit but then when has that made a difference in the past when we’ve drawn games with Ade in the team?
Also Hleb, Rosicky, Eduardo, RVP are not that slow either. They have enough spark and pace to create trouble when the passing is precise. On the other hand, Adebayor is NOT that fast. His pace is totally overrated. It’s decent and no more. He’s just good at maintaining it for long periods, which is why he stresses defenders. However they probably save energy on the countless occasions he is called offside LOL.
June 26th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Playing a team for ONLY two games - WITH A FRIGGING EUROPEAN REF - who SENT off Chelsea players in BOTH games is an IDIOTIC counter.
You try to imply that any team that beats an English team is proof that you dont need a bruising target man or strength through the team to combat a physical English team. Meanwhile a lot of European teams have found victory in such games.
It is a cup - a one-off two legger - with favorable refs - not a gruelling 38 game run.
Really foolish counter.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
He didn’t send them off in both games at Stamford Bridge, those are the important ones in which the physical nature of Chelsea would show itself. Remember I’m thinking of the game in March 2005 more than the one in 06. Chelsea fluked their way through that tie.
“You try to imply that any team that beats an English team is proof that you dont need a bruising target man or strength through the team to combat a physical English team”
Give yourself a medal Fred. that’s exactly what I’m saying. And your counter that playing 38 games would be too much for teams like Barcelona has got to with what exactly? It’s also not the argument I was making. Barca showed that they a team can pin back a physical bulldog team back with technical football. That’s the sole point I was making.
Consider also that european refs are more lenient and would allow Chelsea to get through more skullduggery than domestic refs and your point is even less credible LOL.
June 27th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
European refs would allow harder, get-in-your-face play ??????
You are profound.
June 26th, 2008 at 10:57 am
“”He angles his runs to far from goal because he knows he has not got the technique to stand his ground in a more central position and take the ball down- unless we’re playing Derby County.”"
Well, Henry used to do it all the time so maybe that has NOTHING to do with “he knows he”s got no technique.
When Ade gets the ball, he looks back and sees the midfielders too far back. He oafishly takes the ball out wide to wait for support. Clichy then runs out to wide - maybe at that POINT - Hleb the fucktard could run INTO the box rather than standing 5 meters away! Just maybe that would be more sensible.
Fabregas and Flamini could not run into the box, because CMs have to hold their ground - so it is up to the wingers to move into the box - rather than standing and MOPING like utter fools 10 yards from the box! That WAS our problem.
Drogba is a SECOND balls man. He takes the ball, roams out wide, several midfielders ENTER the box, Drogba lays off and pounces on and blasts the second balls into the net.
Drogba will have far less effect if he had the likes of Hleb behind him standing FIVE bloody meters away rather than entering the box.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
The quality of Henry’s runs were far better as to be incomparable with Adebayor. Henry’s primary purpose was always to go for goal in those situations ie. Bayern Munich, and only as a last resort would he settle for waiting for support. Henry never angled his runs consistently and constantly towards the corner flag like Ade. Ade’s sole purpose is to control the ball and run to the corner flag and hang on to the ball for dear life LOL.
Now we’ve established Ade does not have the ability to do anything other than run the ball into the corner flag, what difference does it make if Hleb makes a run? Is Ade going to magically back heel the ball into his path? All that would happen if Hleb made a diagonal run would him waiting for a cross by Clichy that would get stopped by the first man anyway, like 90% of his crosses.
And I thought you may have realised by now Fred that our system is designed to release Fabregas with Hleb tucking in and allowing Clichy to overlap. Unless he is the one passing the ball, Fabregas is the one that is given license to make the runs like he did for Spain as a youngster. Just because Hleb may line up as a winger on the graphic screen it doesn’t mean that his brief is to run up and down the flank like a dolt.
June 26th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Oy, shift the blame to Fabregas …. as long as Hleb is absolved of all blame.
If you bothered to read, I dont expect Hleb to run the flanks, I want and he should GO INTO THE BLOODY BOX rather than standing pat ON THE WINGS like the coward he is. Arsenal wingers are meant to be dynamic and goal-seeking.
But ofcourse everybody else is to blame but Hleb.
God, cant someone pony up just 10 million for the guy??? We should consider adding Eboue or Gilberto to the deal to sweeten it.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
actually… i think Mazza’s right. In the games where Hleb played as the second striker, Cesc creativity may have been inhibited but he also had the opportunity more to make those runs (not always with success though) that Mazza talked about (the games against Liverpool and Mancs come to mind).
Of course this is just an opinion and I think Mazza’s the one person on this site that likes Hleb more than I do
June 26th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Well, As I’ve established, neither Hleb or Fabregas have much to do with the point I was making. You predictably took upon yourself to bring that one in so you could have another bitchy whine-fest about Hleb. As I said, so what If Hleb makes a run, what is Ade going to do? He has to concentrate all his energies on controlling the ‘grenade’ LOL.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Hakyn, don’t make Fred think too hard. Wingers are meant to SCORE AND ASSIST and always be within fifteen yards of the opposing goal. Any winger who is not within FIFTEEN yards of the goal at all times will be shot at dawn LOL. If in any doubt check the footballing dictionary for the defination of a winger. Oh wait, there isn’t one!
June 26th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
The dummy giving me the definition of a winger is the same one who said “his brief is to run up and down the flank like a dolt.”
Twist it all you like. If a striker roams out of position, it is always idiotic for the winger/AM to stand outside 20 yards from the penalty box.
June 26th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
No your the dummy who thinks that’s his brief, something you’ve alluded to constantly over the last year or so. “A wingers job is to create goals and score them” you’ve said consistently. How do they do that without running up and down the flank? Score from fifty yards?LOL.
Considering you like to be pedantic and take everything as literal when it suits your argument, a player running up a flank can come in and make a diagonal run every now and then.
June 27th, 2008 at 10:56 am
u are incredible. i say he should NOT be fifty yards from goal …. cant u read?….or hleb hasnt given u your daily shagging yet?
June 27th, 2008 at 11:13 am
No, I’ll leave that you and Arshavin. Complete with the dog chains and barks, woof, woof! LOL.
June 26th, 2008 at 11:15 am
Oh by the way, Zidane has very good assist records.
Zidane’s stats against top half teams in France, England and Spain are excellent. His stats in the CL knockout stages are also very good. ALL the great players in the world - from Pele to Maradona, Platini to Zidane, Cruyff to Rivaldo, Ronaldo (the fat) to Van Basten. Even to lesser great players Kaka, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo Jr, ……..
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS BACKED UP BY THE STATS.
Stats only tell half the story … but they tell an important half. Or else it the whole sport becomes PERCEPTION-based and about how you FEEL - amongst other poncy stuff. Ade’s shot attempts to goal ratio is actually VERY good and amongst the best in Europe - that is why the top clubs are REALLY after him. But because his misses appear oafish and because someone else misses with “style” … one is rated over another.
If stats dont matter then the present US administration has been a rip-roaring success! We “feel” safer from terrorists, “family values” are on the rise, amongst other feelings and ideology based nonsense. When the stats are brought to the table the picture looks soooo different.
The only people who hate stats are those who have an incredibly biased view of a person with really poor stats, so they try to downplay the stats completely.
Stats plus perception gives a complete picture.
Perception alone is NONSENSE!
June 26th, 2008 at 11:41 am
I was going to respond to Mazza’s “Stats are bullshit” piece, but you have most eloquently stated the obvious.
Nuff Said, and well done.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Stat ARE bullshit. Any person with a decent knowlege of football already knows the general stats of all the players so it DOES become 100% perception. That’s why despite Adebayor’s stats, I have come to the conclusion he is not good enough for us. Doesn’t mean he is not a good player.
June 26th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Everybody knows the stats? Really?
The VAST majority of people all over the world just DONT have information or stats at hand. It is moronic to think that everybody is well informed.
Werent you the one who was claiming that Tevez was a bit part player for Man U last season? Apparently you did not know the stats, you just PERCEIVED it. LOL!
Imagine a world where stats mean nothing and then think how profoundly stupid a comment like “stats are bullshit” is.
You first start with the cold FACTS (the stats) - that takes you halfway through - then you move to the effects of “intagibles” to get a complete picture.
Perception alone is UTTER bollocks!
June 26th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Depends on what kind of stats we are talking about and in what context. If one only looks blindly at numbers without knowing the game, then that could lead to incorrect conclusions. I remember there was one Arsenal game where the stats showed that Senderos successfully completed 78% of his passes compared to Cesc’s 72%. The stats didn’t reflect the distance covered by the passes. From what I recalled about the game, almost all the passes Senderos completed were to players on either side of him whereas Cesc’s passes covered a longer distance and were far more complicated. If that data was given to someone who didn’t know either player or even see the game, then they would draw an incorrect conclusion. I think same goes for stats which show shots on goal. If a striker tamely shoots the ball with no power and the opposition goalie easily gathers the ball, that is considered a shot on target. But if another striker attempts a 30 yard shot which just misses the net, then that would be considered a shot off target. Only if one was seeing the game, then those stats could be seen for what they were.
I think the first time I ever paid attention to stats in soccer was in the early 90’s when a Swedish player was blasted in the press for his lack of contribution. I can’t remember his name (might be Johan Thern but not sure) but he was supposed to be a midfield general and the press reported that he only had something like 5 passes and spent about 1 min 20 seconds on the ball in the entire game. That number does say something for someone who is supposed to lead the midfield. Stats can’t measure the value of a player’s off the ball movement but if key players are not getting the ball enough or spending less time on the ball than their counterparts, then that could point to some areas that need to be improved.
Stats which show how much time a team spent in specific areas of the field are quite useful. It can show which areas need to be worked on, etc. Taking those stats with some tapes of the game would put things in perspective. Still, some managers like to use them and some others prefer not to.
Mazza, I can see what are saying about perception about a game but over time, stats add up and can point towards a pattern. It is important to know how to properly interpret them and not incorrectly use them.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
“Everybody knows the stats? Really?
The VAST majority of people all over the world just DONT have information or stats at hand. It is moronic to think that everybody is well informed.”
Hence the word ‘general’ stats. I’m sure most people have a general idea of a players stats in terms of assists and goals, otherwise their opinion doesn’t really account for much and they wouldn’t be interested in football in the first place. Only people who are lacking in footballing knowlegde feel the need to read up on stats to the fill the void. It’s an insecurity issue.
Sachin, good points. If you had every available stat for every aspect of football then one could make some interesting discoveries. I’m sure Wenger, who incidentally does not give a rats ass about a so-called winger’s lack of scoring, has got some interesting ones swirling around his head.
As for your last point, that’s the challenge with Adebayor. If he consistently scores twenty or more goals for the next few years then the stats will carry more weight and be used with some credibilty.
June 26th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
And if Hleb has been a constant success both with stats and with perception - then he would have long gone from Arsenal on a lucrative deal.
As it is - Wolfsburg are the most interested. LOL.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Why would he have long gone? If you haven’t noticed Arsenal don’t want to lose him and there is something called negotiations. Why isn’t Ronaldo long gone to Real Madrid if transfers happen so easily?
June 27th, 2008 at 11:00 am
If Arsenal dont want to lose him how come Wenger hasnt even made an half interested statement to that fact … come on EVEN Flamini got pleas from Wenger.
Oh, by the way, why is Nasri already sweetly lined up as a “signed” and ready replacement??
Hleb is in f-cking career limbo. LOL.
June 27th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Well, did Wenger ever come out during the Patrick Vieira will he or won’t he summers? No he didn’t. Your basing your whole argument on the fact that Wenger hasn’t mentioned Hleb in the last few weeks? And remember Wenger answered the Hleb question several times during the last few weeks in the season and said there was nothing to say, Hleb is under contract. Flamini was out of contract so that was a different story. Your desperation is pathetic and little bit sad.
Hleb’s career is in limbo, oh no! It is because Fred says so, the all knowing being who has intimate knowledge of all transfers LOL. Since the player has never actually said he wants to leave and Wenger has already forgiven him for ice-cream gate, how is his career in limbo? He will just stay at Arsenal. I don’t think Hleb gives a shit what fans like you think anyway!
June 27th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Actually Wenger did come out and spoke up frequently during the Vieira sagas.
I fully expect you to have selective memory though.
“Wenger has already forgiven him for ice-cream gate” ????
You must be Wenger’s cover or Hleb’s lover to know such secrets, boy.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
No he didn’t. Once the season is over Wenger says nothing. All that ever happened in those sagas was silence until we played Barnet at Underhill then he said something. Like he will about Hleb against Barnet this year. Why do you think they were called saga’s? LOL.
If Wenger was so angry at Hleb why do you think he kept playing him and showed no sign of anger towards him whatsover, whilst aiming all of his ire at Inter and their tactics. Wenger doesn’t blame the player(s), he blames the ‘game’. He knows nearly every player gets influenced by agents.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
btw, I know its asking a little too much but it would be cool if this site had multiple views so that users choose the view they like (the old, the new, the future etc)…
The new look is rocks though. Keep up the good work guys
June 26th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
off-topic. Any of the AA people in NY go see Henry? I came across this article only this morning. Would have been fun to see Henry in such a close setting as I am sure he showed plenty of skills. I remember seeing his street soccer video a year ago and he had fun.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Couple of guys on BigSoccer went:
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=711445
June 26th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Thanks Mike. This is someting I know Henry would love. Reading the articles and seeing the pics, it looks amazing. People crowded around the small field to get a look…ahh…the beautiful game
June 26th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
@ sachin: You are right - the quality of the stat matters. It always does - countries are invaded based on bad info!!!
I saw this website last summer that counted very relevant stats - say for passing, there is a portion for number of “forward” passes and the percentage of completes thereof. Also it was divided into “less than 5 yards ground”, greater than 15 yards ground, etc. There was also a lot of data on other stuff - from tackling success rate, interception, near misses, body checks, bar hitting! It was quite comprehensive.
Based on that I countered exactly what Gilberto was useful for. Before then everybody was just comfortable in the senseless bliss that Gilberto was like Makelele - an invinsible wall.
Makelele is NOT an “invinsible” wall, his tackling rate was very high, his tackling success rate was high, his interception was the highest in the league.
People said he was very important - but it was perception based on SOLID facts. On the other hand Gilberto had all the perception, but his tackling rate, his tackling success rate, his interception rate were very poor.
Perception is very subjective and easily changeable.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Indeed. I wish everyone would realize that and apply it before they speak. its not just about the stats as well - actually it primarily is — if you know how to read them. If you just read Goals scored - passes made….then Mazza’s absolutely right. Stats are then bullshit. Otherwise they are very very interesting.
@Sachin: Remember those funny stats thing we were discussing once?? I tried starting it ..but gave up after the first game..I just wasnt watching enough football
June 26th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Hey, don’t give up on that. You have a few months before the season starts. Better get on it
June 26th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Good point regarding Makelele Fred. I was thinking about him regarding stats as well. He is a guy whose value is in the tackles he does and the balls he wins. There is no point trying to measure his on the ball time but instead looking at his tackle/ball winning ratio. Which is why Madrid were critized for letting him leave. The powers at Madrid only cared for the superstars who needed to play with the ball, yet they didn’t think who was winning them the passes.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Hleb is the best player of all time.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Where’s the edit option? Can’t see it.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Should be right under your comment.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Right I can see it. Maybe my internet is slow but for me it takes forever to actually edit anything. Anyway, good effort.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
What browser are you using?
June 26th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
IE, however at this moment I’m using a pretty poor wireless router. That might be the reason.
June 26th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
that could be it. though IE is slower than most browsers when using Javascript (which is what is used to create the edit window and post the changes)
June 26th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Mazza, stats aren’t bullshit. Th