Boys, the word around the campfire is Armand Traore is in line for his Portsmouth debut against Man United on Monday night. I rate this kid very highly as a LM and expect him to put on a show. I know there’s a difference playing in the reserves league and playing against the two-time defending BPL and European Champions but I think this kid has got all the goods. As some of you may remember, I campaigned heavily for Traore to be given a chance at LM when Rosicky went down injured. For some reason, Wenger insisted with Diaby. It’s a Monday night game so it should be on essentially everywhere, except Iraq, so I want to encourage you guys to watch young Armand do his thing.
At the same time I was lobbying for Traore to play, I was talking about the real likelihood of Flamini leaving. After he officially left, we were talking about his replacement. I dropped Fabrice Muamba’s name in the hat as he was everything I thought we needed. He’s young, English U-21, big and strong, very fit, hard-working, a good tackler, good in the air, already knows Wengerball, has two years BPL experience, and has played along side Fabregas, Bendtner, van Persie, and Clichy before. I’m sure we had the first option to buy him and I’m sure he would have jumped at the chance to come back. Lastly, he would have been cheap.
Muamba left, not because he wasn’t good enough, but there were too many guys in front of him at the time for Wenger to promise him the first team football he would have if he signed for Birmingham. Well, those guys in front of him are all gone now. I know it’s a moot point as he’s already signed for Bolton. I’m just comparing that to who we’ve actually brought in this summer and I still think mine was a good idea. You guys have already thrown knives at me for suggesting him come back and maybe time will tell that you were right. Maybe Diaby will evolve into the new Vieira but I have little confidence in him progressing much further. In fact, when Spurs or Portsmouth or who ever it was offered us 7 million for him in January, I didn’t say it but I think we should have taken the money. Hopefully time will prove me wrong.
Sorry for not being able to submit a decent preview guys. Will try from next week onwards
As for Fulham I only hope Alex Song plays and everyone else who booed him 2 years ago feel stupid now. Really we should win against Fulham though, derby and all. The back is probably going to be(after looking at the Fulham website) —
Schwarzer
Volz Hughes Baird Konchesky
Volz an ex Arsenal product is a decent enough right back while Konchesky can still put in a cross or two. We should be able to put a couple past them though. Having said that it took a Toure run to win a penalty and a 90th minute Hleb goal before we beat them with Tony Warner!!! having a good game in goal thanks to 120 Rosicky shots being struck straight at him ;). So they can hold out and kill the game.
The midfield isn’t the worst in the world though on paper. Bullard is quality - vision and dead balls and with Zoltan Gera(WBA playmaker) and Mazza’s all time favorite Danny Murphy in there as well they can create a bit.
Andy Johnson is injured yet again though and wont start. So it’ll probably be Diomansy Kamara and Bobby Zamora to start. Wasn’t it Zamora in that 2-3 loss when Sol broke down who scored??
So yeah a reasonable mid table squad if all those players perform to their ability.
As for us here’s what we will see:
Almunia
Sagna Gallas Toure Clichy
Eboue Denilson Song Nasri
Ade RVP
josh, understand where u coming from of the idea Traore at LM. nevertheless, i think his best position in a long run is still at LB.
yes he did impress in a couple of occassions coming on as LM. but note - on those occassions he came on as a SUBS, while oppositions legs were already tired. with his pace and skills, he made an impact there. pretty much similiar to Theo Walcott when he came on as a subs that injected an energy boost to our side when the oppositions starting to tire down.
even if as a starter, I think Traore is too direct a player to be a LM. basically go back to where Mazza’s point before, I very much perfer Mazza’s theory of having two “play making” widemen instead of out and out pacy wingers in our side these days.
our style has changed, especailly since moving to a bigger pitch Emirates, and the departure of class of 2004.
anyway it’s too early to say he will make it as a LM or LB, as we have seen too little of him so far to understand what’s his strength and weakness. having a spell at Portsmouth will be doing him all the good.
there are some youngsters when we loaned him out it means they are on the blink of out of the team (putting them in the shopping window).
yet in some other cases, to me, it’s more like a final learning course before they are about to earn graduation (to the first team).
to me, Traore falls into the Bendtner-Djourou category, meaning that he will be in AW’s first team plan next season.
I don’t see the consistency in Traore. I think he will struggle big time at Portsmouth. I’m actually cringing at the thought of him playing left-wing for Portsmouth on Monday.
He’s a quick, skillful player but very much in the Theo Walcott mold in terms of lacking composure and intelligence to pace himself over the full ninety minutes.
I expect him to start off fast on Monday and then completely fade from the game and get subbed after sixty minutes. There’s always a chance that in this fast start he does something special. He certainly has the raw ability.
The midfield is not strong enough. Fulham is a place where you have to assert your technical dominance over them early on. If you do that, they can be kept under wraps quite easily. If your midfield does not have the quality/confidence to assert themselves- and I don’t think that midfield does- Fulham can be a dangerous team who can quite easily score a few goals and hang with the bigger teams.
Our midfield in the same fixture last year contained Hleb, Rosicky and Fabregas. They managed to make that tricky exercise look rather easy; alot easier than it actually is. That midfield is on totally different technical level to the one we’re likely to reel out today. Today’s team will not have the same command of the ball and this will allow Fulham to impose their game on us.
We could still win, especially if we score early on and can afford to pick them off, but with the international break dulling the senses of our players and subsequentially, our technical game, I’m fairly sure we will struggle today and likely lose.
fair enough. at least u gave me some logic behind ur thinking rather than like last season just saying we are going to lose for the sake of it.
yes, to be able to control the game will be the key. if we play like against Twente (when we couldn’t control the possession) there’s a chance we may drop points.
Obviously Denilson will be the key. he has shown some improvement, but he needs to imposing himself more to, use ur words previoulsy, help us getting a foothold in the game.
Nasri will be another. He did well in his debut. but that was a home game with fans cheering behind, things were bounded to be a bit easier than the bread and butter away match. Consider his still a new player of us, will he be able to substain the same level of impact in an away match?
Toure on the right is not that something i perfer us to do, just what i guess AW would be doing - to offer us some balance / and protection defensively. Unless he shifts Eboue there and play Song or the young kid Ramsey there as DM.
what i believe is AW will perfer a certain level of steability, by not to shifting around players too much from game to game. I don’t know if Eboue will really cut it as DM yet. yet since he did ok last match, if we shift him back to the RM again, not only it would cause confusion to the player himself, to the team as well.
and i also perfer some steability at the back. Djourou has not given me 100% faith that he could do the job there. yet he did ok. i don’t think it would be ideal now to move Toure back to CB so soon.
my idea is to fix it when it broke. just try to substain the steability of the team as much as we could.
CaribKid Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 9:48 am
Toure may not yet be fully fit so Djourou could easily start in his place. This would not be a bad idea because he is more commanding in the air and will provide better balance against the long ball which we are certain to see.
Denilson and Nasri are known quantities but Song is the X factor which could determine whether we are able to control the midfield or not, seeing he has never played this role for Arsenal before.
Do we really need to have an extra “defensive” midfielder in Eboue for this game to add balance? I think not. I would use eithet Walcott or Vela as the wide man although Vela may be tired after his late return from Mexican international duty.
Bullard is the X factor for Fulham as he is very dangerous from set pieces and scored a magnificent free kick in week 1. Any trouble we get will most likely be from set pieces.
RVP is long overdue to put in a good performance and score a few. Anyone notice he has not scored for us in the regular season since coming back late last year? Can’t remember him scoring in the pre-season also. If I’m wrong please correct me.
Score Arsenal 2-1 Fulham
Lineup should read:
Almunia
Sagna, Gallas, Djourou, Clichy
Toure/Walcott, Denilson, Song, Nasri
RVP, Ade
ctpa Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
RVP has not been sharp for us. His last goals were for Holland. I’d also like to see if Walcott can get something going this week.
Despite Song not playing the role for us, he just finished in that role for Cameroon and he played it for Charlton when they were still in the EPL. Silvestre’s arrival has Wenger linking Song w/ MF in the same sentence so we will see.
Denilson has to know w/ Fabregas coming and it will then be between him and player X for the other CM spot.
I tend to agree with LDE’s lineup a bit more. Wouldn’t be shocked for Theo to start on the right either, leaving it a choice between Eboue and Song IMO for the CDM slot. I hope Song is there. Definitely like the balance of the bench much more in this match than last week.
One thing, Fulham accepted Ipswich’s bid for Volz so I don’t think he will play.
Traore in midfield is fine as he is still learning all the challenges of defending. I just hope he gets games. I like the idea of having players on the bench capable of LM or LB. With Silvestre as veteran cover I really hope Djourou goes out again on loan for starting play or Senderos is sold. I still consider myself a Senderos supporter- he still has several years to improve judgement, etc. but I won’t be nearly as bummed if he leaves as I was with Flamini.
Barring severe injury, Traore has all the tools to make it and will do so whether it’s for Arsenal or another team. Unlike Walcott, he has more than just pace and is very gifted technically. Even now, his crosses and shooting are equal to if not exceeding Clichy.
What he lacks now is defensive awareness and consistency, all of which will come with experience.
Sp**s: 1 Sunderland: 2. A Cisse goal secures the win and an 0-2 start for ‘friends’. Money cannot buy you happiness and it doesn’t appear to buy you a good football team. I was impressed w/ Sunderland in their lost to Liverpool last week and they’ve done themselves proud today.
Berbatov was not even on the bench. Cisse’s header beats King and Woodgate who are not considered defensive slouches in the air. Go figure.
damn LDE, i was asking the SAME question! how many times????!!!!! if he’s available, i don’t care if he’s cost 30 mil, go for him! he’s worth every single penny. not that because he’s a top quality player, but boy his DRIVE, and the ability to singlehandly turn a match, this is something money can’t buy.
Don’t rate Gerrard. He does feck all for the whole game and then gets a token late goal. Of course, he’s got a good shot and penchant for the spectacular but I would take Lampard over the simple scouser any day.
Bentley looks like a poor signing at moment. Playing too deep with Modric.
GunningSteve Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Take Gerrard every day and twice on Sunday over Lampard.
How are winning goals token?
My sense is Gerrard complements other better and a bit more flexibility.
Bentley’s dead ball and crossing skills are v. good. That said I hope he does poorly.
live_dont_exist Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
You got to be kidding me Mazza. Seriously. What else does a manager want? If he can come up with winning goals in big games in crunch situations without doing it for 89 minutes…who cares?? Steven Gerrard lifts a team like no other footballer I have seen in all my life. Maybe there are better players footbalistically(ugggh) speaking — but there is only one Steven Gerrard - the complete package.
Mazza, as i said, i don’t rate him as a top quality player, but he’s a “match winner”.
money today can buy a lot of top quality players, as they are plenty of skillful players out there. but a player with a match winning mentality are rare. genernally with Gerrard on the pitch, i bet the Kop know they have someone they can “count on” when the tide is against them. very much like our very own Tony Adams. that dont’ discount the team cos our captain will not give up until the final whistle.
that to me is something you can’t find in too many players ,however talented they are.
or put it another way, if you let me to build a team from nothing, I would first start with a player like Gerrard or Adams or Roy Keane, they don’t have to be the BEST players around, but they are the one who wouldnt give up without a fight, they are going to be the “soul” of my team. then build my team around them, adding the more flair and gifted players later.
Wow! Down 1-0 at halftime to a team that lost to Hull last weekend. Outside of two offensive chances we created for ourselves, we have been outplayed at every turn. Our central midfield is non-existent, Gallas provided very little in the way of a challenge on the corner kick, and our set pieces have been atrocious. We better clean this mess up for the second half. I would get Eboue off the pitch. Put Bendtner on and go with three up front if we are really that short in the midfield.
Walcott is still fooling around - but at least a little better than before … just a little.
But the real big PROBLEM is Denilson and Eboue. They contribute absolutely NOTHING to the attack or the defence. They cant even hold the ball for 2 seconds. Or even do some sort of running forward - even if its aimless like Diaby.
They do NOT protect the defense.
Infact Denilson and Eboue are there just to so that we will have 11 players.
Sure they can tackle and make some pass….but they wont tackle anybody unless the person confronts them directly.
The Fulham CM is running rings around them.
We have ABSOLUTELY no central midfield and when you combine that with chronic weakness at RM - we are probably doing very well!
Denilson had a look at the ball coming in….but decided he already had his own man to mark, so why stick out your leg for the ball? LOL.
Its exactly the same as last season, only that we no longer have a midfield. Oh well!
I hope we can just take a point. At least its a derby and its away. We still have 8 days to bring in the DM and RM we DESPERATELY need. And we dont even need to break the bank for them. Wenger, over to you.
Understand, boys that I too rate the playmaking wide guys to the typical pacy wingers. My point was to emphasize that when Rosicky went down, we didn’t have any playmakers to put on the left. I believe Traore was the best option out of the guys that we had available to include Diaby and Walcott.
Last summer when guys were lobbying for Eboue to play at RW and Hleb to be dropped, I tried to make the point that Eboue could not create like Hleb did and he wouldn’t be nearly as effective. The pre-season game against Inter Milan proved to be an illusion.
My point is that I rate Traore higher than Theo, Eboue, Walcott, and Diaby. Sure, we only got to see him late in games last year but that boy is very fit and very dangerous. He can maintain that pace for ninety minutes. His judgement is already better than Walcott’s. He has that picture in his head of what he wants to do that Walcott hasn’t developed yet and his ball skills and fast feet are probably just as good. We didn’t need him to play every game but to give him a chance before the season was essentially over was what I had hoped for.
Can’t see the game but it looks as if what I thought might happen last weekend is happening this weekend. It looks as though we’ll miss Hleb as well as Flamini. Even when Fabregas comes back, it will better but it will still be hard as people will just mark and kick the crap out of the young Spaniard. With no Hleb or Rosicky, he has no one to help him carry the playmaking load. Denilson is a good player but he doesn’t have the ambition to make positive plays. His game is more lateral. If he doesn’t develop that defense-splitting component and we lose Fabregas, we’ll be in trouble.
I’ll have to wait and hear what you guys have to say about the players performance. Right now we haven’t hit a single shot on target according to Gamecast.
Poor, poor, poor, poor! The best player on the pitch for Arsenal: Nasri. No one else is worth commenting on or berating because they played up to their limitations. I take that back, Gallas is playing like a player who is surviving on his rep. In fact, if Gallas does not play better, he’ll be my new whipping boy His defending not for the first time has been a day late and a euro short.
fair to say, Denilson has had an absoutely shocker. i think over 90% of his passes went straight to opponents. he needs to do much better than that. i still rate him as a player, but he gotta know his performance today was not acceptable by Arsenal’s standard.
Fred Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 3:07 pm
“he needs to do much better than that.”
Are you implying that Denilson should get another starting chance??
Denilson is physically weak, he is poor going forward and poor sitting in front of defense. He does not confront runners and he never attempts through balls. Song made FOUR through balls in his 15 minutes. Denilson made ZERO.
The only thing Denilson has on the best of days is the ability to simple passes….and when the heat is on even that ability goes.
Denilson is a nothing player that plays only because we need to field 11 players.
No one has said it yet but Fulham played a really good game. Obviously our boys were not on this week. RvP should have scored, Ade was unlucky and Denilson should go back to Brazil BUT Jimmy Bullard (Man of the Match for me), Hangeland, Seol, Davies and company had a great outing and were COMMITTED to playing as a team and securing victory. They didn’t even turtle up completely after scoring and went looking for a second to put the game away.
We need Fab, Rosicky and Eduardo back pronto. Plus a proven player like Gareth Barry. Arsene should go spend 30 million ASAP on players who want to win.
Perhaps the other signing that AW makes should be for an attacking MF, someone who can provide some additional cover/ambition/service when Cesc is out?
So all those hippie optimists in here will now fully understand why I was strongly optimistic last season and have now flipped.
Last season, we consistently salvaged matches like this - even if just for a draw.
We put out a team stronger than this against Boro last season and got beat. But it was in late November, it was cold, the playing pitch was rough and it was away up north. In contrast this is still summer, and it is very close to home on an OK playing surface.
The only reason we cant fall out of the top 4 is because all the teams outside the top 4 are shit.
Last season we played Wengerball and still managed to frustrate in part. Now Wenger has weakened the team so much we cant even play basic good football let alone think of winning.
Denilson is UTTER, COMPLETE, PROFOUND shit. He is useless and completely out of his depth, even when standing beside Eboue, that is how pointless he is.
Alex Song came in and was intrinsically and incredibly far more dynamic than Denilson will ever be.
Eboue is also useless, the only thing he does is those curved runs and yet he never tries to do anything killer with it, he is ALWAYS looking for the foul - which is probably best considering he doesnt have the brain to pull anything else off.
I double-dare Wenger not to buy anybody in the next 8 days. If he doesnt and we crash and burn as I suspect, it will be clear he has lost the plot completely - ala Brian Clough in his final days - and it will probably be time for him to step down.
Lets be clear we desperately NEED a CM and a RM - just to have a respectable season. We dont need to break the bank, just bring them in.
And please let me not hear anything about 100 million loses … that is a tell tale sign that one has a big time complex about Chelsea. Lets spend 10 to 20 million and focus on ourselves. In this and last summer we have made a transfer market profit (sold players minus bought players) of almost 30 million.
We are not anywhere close to making a club loss, so where all the Chelsea complex is coming from is beyond me.
Ratings:
Almunia: 5, whatever
Sagna: 6, wasnt getting in quality crosses though.
Gallas: 5, ball watching.
Toure: 5, average.
Clichy: 6, got forward a lot, didnt put in any quality crosses.
Nasri: 7, he is SUFFERING playing beside Denilson and Eboue.
Denilson: 2, utterly useless, an incredible joke.
Eboue: 3, another failed experiment in a new position.
Walcott: 4, damn, slightly better than last week, but still way off.
Ade: 6, was our most likely route to a goal.
RvP: 4, how hard is it to get the ball over the wall???
Bendtner: 5, did nothing really.
Song: 7, was up and about when he came on. why he didnt start I will never know.
Wenger, get your head out of the sand NOW, it is incredible I am repeating that same statement for the second saturday in a row.
arthur3sheds Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Fred I cannot see how Nasri could have got a 7 he rarely gave the ball away but did quite predictable things all game. He refused to really run at anyone unlike Eboue. and the only reason Eboue got fouled was not because he was looking for it but because he was making dangerous in roads and had to be stopped.
I would have probably given Nasri and Eboue both a 5.5 just above average. Toure was our rock in defence even making several clearances with his head, solid performance in my opinion deserving of 6 or 6.5 along with our SBs.
Cannot see how RvP or Walcott could have got higher marks than Eboue.
Fred Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Eboue didnt make any “dangerous” runs … any retard can run, doing something with the ball at that point requires a brain. He was BEGGING to be fouled. Make no mistake.
Toure did nothing that he shouldnt have done. At this time last season he was making runs through the midfield, and he was even floating some useful long balls … the fact that he made some unchallenged headers without shitting his pants doesnt mean he is a “rock”.
With Fulham basically playing a tight 5-5-0, Nasri will need to make runs to the center (without the ball) and have the CMs give him the ball … there comes the problem - we dont have a CM.
arthur3sheds Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Great assessment of Denilson Andez he looked way out of his league.
We have to do something about that DM position, no time to wait for Denilson to mature, I think Song is the best we have no matter what Arsene think s about his stamina, he has not been found wanting for Cameroon.
I think Toure was our best player alongside Sagna and Clichy, cannot see why he was taken off. Arsene should have stuck to the original sub of Song for Denilson.
Real disheartening performance, we need some steel in the middle of the park and some real creativity, playmaking ability in there. Eboue was effective running with the ball on occasion and made a couple interceptions but is not my idea of steel, Denilson woeful, Song can provide steel and a creative, defence splitting pass but was placed at CB instead of Toure who was performing well.
All said and done we looked flat and stale even Nasri and Perse were of little use. Hope we can turn a corner next week.
PS: Its so hilarious the way the likes of Wilshere and Ramsey were given relatively low shirt numbers … yet Wenger doesnt have the remotest compulsion to throw them in any of these games lol.
If Ramsey cant come in even for a WOEFUL Denilson then you know Wenger has realized his delusion of squad depth.
This season is a STRONG return to two, three seasons ago. The central theme of those seasons were utter frustration.
Wenger, you have 8 days. FIX IT or I want your head.
Wenger really has no excuse. If a meagre fan like myself can deduce a year and a half ago that Denilson should be nowhere near this Arsenal side then how can he still not see it?
Eboue as well. The guy who makes a good run through the centre and PRAYS that someone takes him from behind so he doesn’t have to make a decision.
Theo Walcott. Why the hell did Wenger even pay big money for this dick two years ago? Harry Redknapp’s reaction at the time spoke volumes. He never rated the boy and could only say that he could run over water without leaving a puddle. He had nothing positive to say about his game intelligence. Redknapp’s reaction, plus a few games watching him, was all I needed to see how mediocre Walcott was.
I suppose I’ll have to read that Wenger interview again. The one where blathers on about values and tradition of the club and morals. But then, he says that in EVERY interview when asked about new players. Somehow thinks that having morals and values means you have to persist with mediocrity like Eboue and Denilson. Am I missing something by calling bullshit on that one? Everyone else’s knees seem to turn to jelly when Wenger spews this drivel.
ALL our youngsters are rank average. It’s amazing how Wenger has spent lots of money and time on assembling such a rank average collection of kids.
The carling cup was and is a waste of time. Creates an illusion of depth when the reality is we’re playing unmotivated premier league and championship sides.
Fred Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 3:16 pm
……while racking up the same wages as Man U …
Denilson/Eboue are probably on some 40k+ per week …. just 10 short of say Hargreaves or Vidic! And ofcourse just 10 short of Fabregas himself.
I am actually glad we lost. ITs early and we needed this wake up call. Even better it happened before the transfer window closes. Wenger needs to wake the hell up. This was an awful performance. Terrible.
I think todays game highlighted the needs for 2 midfielders. one defensive monster… one more creative to cover for Cesc. Both must be proven. Not some 15 year old.
Im looking forward to hearing Wengers excuses this time.
We lose Alex Hleb, we lose everything in our game.
I said last year if he left we would lose 70 % of our playmaking ability. Of course, everyone(Arthur ) blabbered on about ‘Ade is the Dade’ and all that crap. Without our telepathic midfield of Hleb and Fabregas, we are NOTHING.
Adebayor is nothing but an ugly duckling without the spice boys in midfield.
Fred Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 3:30 pm
That is bending the truth strongly considering we have ONLY Nasri in midfield.
Mazza Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Fabregas, as good as he is, is still only one player. As Joshuad said, he will get hacked by the opposition and he will take a while to get match fit.
Fabregas’s return will only improve things marginally imo.
CaribKid Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 3:48 pm
If we had Hleib instead of Nasri the result of this game would have been the same.
Mazza Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Not true.
Nasri was awful in the first half.
You don’t even understand how good Hleb was. Shown by comments such as ‘Vela has the same holding ability of Hleb but he can shoot’, and ‘we are stronger on the flanks than last year’. All wishful and deluded thinking IMO.
joshuad Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Rosicky was in that same boat when he had to play without his other two amigos and everyone was saying how crap he is.
Mazza Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Hleb was the only who played without his two amigos and made it WORK. At Aston Villa away, when he was sensational. Until Carew hacked him down.
arthur3sheds Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
LOL!!! You Hleb lover you! get over it he’s gone, feed the Dade and he will score, Perse will do that when he is in form. I think at this moment in time we miss Flamini the most and Fab of course.
Boy we just looked so average across the board. Even our good players good dragged into the general air of mediocrity. No sparkle, no drive, no passion.
The jig is clearly up on our make-shift midfield surely. How much longer do we have to persist with people who no longer show any potential for improvement?
It’s horrible to lose so soon, but it’s for the best. We need the wake-up call to avoid another almost/nearly season. Come on, Arsene, let’s go shopping.
I suppose the buck ends up at Arsene’s doorstep but those are some strong words, wonder what the Spuds fans are saying about Ramos right now.
I agree that it is a gamble investing so much in youngsters as time will only tell what they will amount to but all our youngsters are not rank average but surely they have put in rank average and below performances today and unfortunately they will do so again in the future.
This performance reminds me of two seasons ago we barely made the CL and only because we had no serious competition from the chasing pack. We will need to fix up fast as moral/confidence will be crucial to our title aspirations.
Remember the season has only just started, I think we need to get more evidence before we can draw too many conclusions about this side.
Hope Arsene will bring in a combative midfielder like that new kid we got Colequin but with some experience of course, forget Barry and Alsono, a real fighter.
Arsenal was completely out of synch for the entire game, even in the last 10 minutes when we completely dominated. Even Sagna and Clichy, although having good defensive games, had uncharacteristic mistakes in ball control and passing.
We played like a rudder less sailboat without wind and a captain.
Fulham deserved to win although we created more half chances and Ade looked our most dangerous forward and managed to hit the post with a very difficult header. RVP looked dangerous at times, especially when we went to 4-3-3 with him playing the trailing forward, but did not look sharp taking corners and three perfectly positioned free kicks. RVP had the best chance to tie the score in the first half with a near post chance which he totally wasted.
The inner midfield duo of Eboue and Denilson looked like a high school pair and provided nothing in the way of defense, attack or creativy, thus allowing Fulham to control the MF for the entire game. This lack of service left Walcott in a void and he has yet learned how to impose his will on the game.
Nasri was our sole light in MF, forced his presence on the game but could not stem the tide without support.
Toure played well, better than Gallas and made some very timely tackles. Welcome back Kolo. Gallas played well but as in the past three games was out of position at times and lost his man which resulted in Fulham’s goal after a puny attempt at recovery.
I thought it strange that Song did not start beside Denilson in the MF and even stranger that Song’s entrance into the game resulted in a straight swap for Toure rather than taking out Denilson. At that point in the game when we needed more offense this substitution offered nothing new.
Even at CB, Song imposed himself on the game for the 14 minutes he was on the pitch and left me to wonder what would have happened if he had replaced Denilson at the half. Denilson had his worst game as a Gunner and looked totally out of sorts. Bendtner came on but basically did nothing and I wondered why Vela was not even in the squad.
To sum it up neatly, our MF with the exception of Nasri stunk it up, were unable to maintain possession and totally lacked creativity.
Arsene’s Eboue experiment and substitution patterns are really getting me pissed off. Hate it when we lose, but hate it even more when we do not put the best available team on the pitch and lose.
I remember saying last year, and many agreed with me, that Hleb and not Fabregas was the main man. When shit got tough, Hleb was our go-to guy. When we needed a rabbit out of the hat, Hleb was our magician. I said that Fab was our “Rui-Costa” but Hleb was our “Figo”. Fabregas is just more of a fan favorite; more popular.
Losing Flamini was bad enough but losing Hleb too is probably too much. The worst part was after we sold Hleb, Wenger came out and said that we would need more from Theo Walcott. That said to me that Wenger expected Theo to be the man on the right, which had doom written all over it from the start.
Actually, when we lost to Boro, the team wasn’t much weaker than it was tonight. The missing ingredients were “no Hleb, no Fab”. The same when we played Sevilla and Wenger gave both those guys the night off AT THE SAME TIME. We had Diarra, Gilberto, Diaby, and Eboue in midfield. Who was ever going to help us keep possession? Who was going to create chances? That’s when the big “tactics” debate came up and Rick was showing me so much love
There’s no surprises for me. I thought we might struggle against WBA. The writing was on the wall after the FC Twente match. We still have a second leg to play this week. It’ll be interesting to see how that works out. I have a theory that’s been on my mind for a little while. I brushed on it a little a few weeks ago and I’ll post a thread soon.
Fred Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Thats a completely bullshit first sentence - no offense. Hleb pulls rabbit out of hat in what game?? Lets not go into revisionism here.
Creating over 20 league goals and scoring over 10 and making an average of 15 forward through and or over the top passes is just fan favoritism??? Really???
Stop the revisionism!
Hleb would not have done anything Nasri didnt do today. We have big problems in our team … they are in CM and RM.
Mazza Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Hleb spent more time deeper than Fabregas liasing with Clichy, Flamini, Sagna. He basically did a creative screening job across the pitch, turning up everywhere. He did all this so Fabregas could go forward and get into the box and make tangible assists and goals.
That’s why Hleb made our team flow better than Fabregas. He was more in the engine room, floating around. That was his brief. Fabregas had to actually go and make the direct assist or score the goal.
Mazza Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 4:17 pm
It’s true Joshuad. I’ve been one of his biggest fans but if we’re relying on someone like Fabregas then we are in trouble.
Fabregas was mediocre in so many games last season when Hleb carried the creative burden. The fact he got so many important goals in the early part of the season clouded this.
Fabregas hasn’t got the dribbling ability of Hleb. He needs players to play off and to then run onto the return ball.
Hleb had the ability to dribble players and do anything he wanted with the ball in the midfield minefield. Like he showed in our best first half of last season at Aston Villa, WITHOUT FABREGAS. He could play like Fabregas if he wanted to and then have the option of dribbling.
Of course, overall, Fabregas is the superior player, but purely in terms of creating play and creating angles, it’s Hleb every time for me.
CaribKid Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Why are we even discussing Hleib at this point? He plays for Barca now.
All of this is speculation, but if we had Fab beside Song in this game it would have been a far different tone and Walcott would have gotten better service. However, I never thought Walcott should be considered as a first choice RM and always found him better as an impact sub in the second when he was running against tired defenses.
My point this game is that we did not field the best team available. too late now to cry over spilt milk, but think a starting MF of Nasri, Denilson, Song and Vela would have provided a lot more possession and creativity.
arthur3sheds Replied: August 24th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Mazza “creative screening job”! LOL did you make that up on the spur of the moment or what?! Stop trying to over emphasize on Hlebs importance, as good as he is he would have struggled like everyone else against Fulham. Like Carib said there would have been little difference between him and Nasri for that game anyway.
“He could play like Fabregas if he wanted to and then have the option of dribbling.” LOL!! I really LOL! Only one phrase worthy of that statement: BS!!
I distinctly remember Hleb having mediocre & below par games last season, and in general he contributed less than our beloved Fabregas despite his dribbling ability. That spineless weak hearted so and so should not even be mentioned on the same line as Fabregas! I can still picture him with chance to put us through in the last few minutes in the champions league Q-final against Liverpool, but what does he do…
The sort of thing you would have roasted Ade for. Sums up your great superstar, as much as I appreciated his abilities I doubt his mental strength as such he could be as much largely ineffective as a match winner.
First we host the high flying Newcastle (they drew with us twice last season) then we have away trips up north to the “lovely” Blackburn and Bolton - both re-energized teams.
with what happened in the summer of that Hleb, Flamini, Ade gate, I no longer bother to defend our players. when they become stars they may wanna f*ck off to other bigger clubs anyway.
how’s Denilson and Walcott’s performance today? AWFUL.
does that mean they are rubbish? Well, how many thought Flamini was not rubbish before last season?
Will Denilson and Theo DEFINITELY makes it in the future? Hell, if anyone knows about that he wouldn’t be here typing comments would he? He would have been a chief scout in a top club.
All I know is now the CHANCES they been asking for are lay there in a plate right in front of them. Playing for a top club, as stated previously, you can’t expect the opportunities will keep on coming even when you play like crap.
so it’s up to them to grab it with both hands to prove the doubters wrong.
On Denilson - don’t try too hard to “impress”, keep it SIMPLE. do not always try the through pass, especially when at the moment his confidence is clearly low.
keep the ball, keep the short passing game going, and keep the possession. I’d consider job done. at least at this early stage of his development.
On Walcott - not going to repeat here which i already said before. he can’t always be a runner forever, gotta learn how to link up play.
I firmly believe - if those guys could just keep doing the basic, and doing the basic right, they don’t need to score a goal or make an assist to become an asset to the team.
our game is all about passing and keeping possession. as long as putting a player there will not see our passing game broken, AW would keep their faith in them.
but once you start becoming the weak link which often lost possession, that means you have started becoming a LIABILITY to the team. the boss won’t be able to trust you forever with performance like that.
arthur3sheds Replied: August 24th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Nice to be here and to see there are people with a level head still posting. Keep it up Andez amongst all the doom and gloom!
I asked the question in recent days - where are the goals coming from in these opening games? Today we saw what I feared. Fulham are an awfully average side, a team we normally roll - they looked superior to us today - how often do we say that about any team let a lone a relegation candiate like Fulham?
Last season’s chances aren’t being created. I too fear for Fabregas - teams will be able to focus on him and there is no one beside him to dish out a little retribution.
We need to reverse this quickly, our best chance of a title shot is to eek out the points, stay with the leaders, and pray that guys like RvP and Rosicky actually earn their salaries for the first time in 2 seasons.
Mazza Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 5:33 pm
With RVP and Adebayor, as well as Walcott at a push, we have the scorers. The problem is we no longer have the midfield dynamic that enabled us to get the ball to these finishers on a consistent basis, and with the same quality.
Mazza, I’d like to agree - the problem is the difference between theory and reality.
RvP is woefully short of sharp form and even then is likely to have long periods out on the injury table.
Walcott is still inadequate - despite the encouraging noises from supporters who hoped for a break-through season for him.
The off-season doesn’t wave a magic wand over last seasons form or inadequacies. It’s just that many fans let the lessons of last season dim and hope for better. Nothing wrong with that, after all football is just a diversion - but you can hardly pretend it’s rational analysis.
These are two posts I wrote in March 2007, a year and a half ago. Now, I always find it interesting reading these posts from a personal perspective to see how my thinking has changed. It also shows things I’ve gotten right and wrong. Flamini went on to have a good season after this, even though Wenger had agreed to let him go to Birmingham. Arsenal went on to head the table the season after as well, even though my predictions of demise in the posts below were more aimed three or four years down the line. I always rated our first team in March 2007, but just didn’t feel comfortable with what was going on behind it.
Post one on the topic ‘No need to panic”:
“No need to panic but Wenger is seriously starting to irritate me.
First off, every pre-season he goes on about not going to America for a pre-season tour because it will fatigue the players. So instead of raising our profile in the States he goes off to Austrian mountains to play some part-timers. Yet, season after season we conk out around February time and play like a bunch of malnourished biafrons and Wenger releases a statement talking about how we didn’t prioritise well and next season we will have to sacrifice a trophy. Man United and Chelsea, who both went to America, are full of beans at the same juncture.
Also, his big, absolutely massive ego when it comes to buying and acquiring players. People accuse him of not wanting to buy experience but although that is a viable argument, the truth is that he does not want to buy a player anybody knows because it will not make him look a smart ass when they come off. Even Marc Overmars, who was well known, gave Wenger street cred because of his injury and William Gallas was looked on unfavourably when compared to the out-going Ashley Cole.
Look at Javier Mascherano tonight. He was immense and looks like a classic Wenger-type player, no airs and graces about his play. Wenger undoubtedly must have had an opportunity to buy him but no, everyone knew about Mascherano. Where’s the fun and street cred in buying him? Especially when you can pick up a distinctly average Brazilian in Denilson and try and make a player out him. Everyone in Sao Paulo was open-jawed when Arsenal wanted to sign Denilson. I can see why now. A competant passer but average in every other department. Usually young players come in and are brilliant from the start and then level out- like Fabregas- but Denilson came in, looked decent at best, and has fallen into complete mediocrity ever since.
So, while we shouldn’t really be panicking considering we were complete crap before Wenger arrived, we do have a manager who is slowly losing the plot. At the moment this is most notable in his transfer philosophy but it will soon seep into other aspects of his management. Arsenal are going one way- down. No amount of talented youngsters like Fran Merida are going to halt that irreversible decline. They may give us some magical moments but our path has been set. At first Wenger’s hands were tied by monetary restrictions but his ego and principles have stopped him from adapting and changing his approach to halt our slide.”
Post two on ‘No need to panic’:
“Silvestre always plays pretty darn well against us though.
Well, Rosicky was a replacement for Pires. That’s it. If Pires had stayed Wenger has said he would not have signed Rosicky. That’s my point. Wenger only buys for necessity; when it’s so obvious a player has to be bought. He will never make ruthless decisions to change our fortunes when he feels we are covered in an area numbers wise.
Two examples; Eric Djemba Djemba and Mathieu Flamini. Both managers knew both players were not good enough after a few months. Difference is Ferguson got shot of Djemba while Flamini has hung around like a bad smell for three years.
Wenger molly-cuddles too much and places too much faith in players who are patently not good enough. Like Denilson now. I can tell you with 100% certainty he will never make it but Wenger will keep on and on with him and then try and save face by sending him out for loans etc.
More interested in preserving his reputation than improving the team.”
Fred, when I said pull a rabbit out I meant he could make a play from nothing. It didn’t always result in a goal or an assist but his contribution allowed us to dictate play and create chances. Did Arsenal do that today?
Andez, I agree Hleb is gone and it’s almost senseless to talk about him. My whole point is Theo Walcott is the one Wenger has trusted to step into the fold and not produce the same game but create a product that has a similar team benefit. It’s unlikely to happen but it seems what we’re stuck with. Also despite Hleb’s lack of goals, we still managed to find the net more frequently with him in the team than not. My concern is, now that he’s gone, where are our chances going to come from?
It’s too easy to have someone kick the crap out of Fabregas to keep him from hurting them. Prophetically, with no Flamini out there, we’ve become a “soft touch” again. Have we replaced him, technically, yet? I’m sure we missed him getting stuck in, barking out orders, and providing that steel on the pitch as well. What have we done to replace that component? Time will tell if we’ve done anything at all.
Fred Replied: August 23rd, 2008 at 6:38 pm
It is very disingenuous to suggest we are suffering now because we are missing the “creativity” Hleb provided - especially considering we have 3 blanks in midfield.
If we get a second “nasri” type for RM and have Nasri 1, new RM, Walcott and Rosicky battle it out for the wing positions we will have ZERO creativity problems.
If/When we get in the bulldog CM to partner Fabregas and have Song and Diaby back them up, we will be strong in the center as well.
Leave Hleb in the past, he is currently sitting on the bench behind Iniesta.
Who gives a crap about replacing him technically? His technique wasn’t the strength of his game. His never say die and fight to the death with anyone attitude is what we missed. Him yelling at referees and opponents when our guys got kicked, his determination and hard work is what we miss. We’ve got enough technicians. We need some steel to go with all that “technique”.
BTW, did we miss Lehmann today, too? I haven’t seen the game yet but do you think Jens could have made a save on that goal?
live_dont_exist Replied: August 24th, 2008 at 12:55 am
No Josh. Gallas lost him. Nothing Almunia could do in a tapin from 3 yards.
GunningSteve Replied: August 24th, 2008 at 9:47 am
LDE, joshuad has a point. Not that Lehmann would’ve saved the tap-in but it was a low cross. I didn’t consider it and would need to see a replay or two but the “save” in question is would Lehmann cut out the cross instead of staying on the line.
Joshuad, Flamini was barking out orders, shouting, pulling his sleeves up etc in 2005, 2006, 2007 when he deputised in central midfield and he was still an incompetent, talentless worker with no real tangible value. He was basically a Denilson with more urgency.
Last season he upped his game a bit and did well. Still, I don’t think he’s that big a loss. Gorkan Inler or Gareth Barry could easily come in and replace what he gave. Flamini’s looking great now cause Denilson is completely useless. Flamini had one decent season and was not part of our plans in the season’s before.
The Hleb and Fabregas dynamic is the one we’re really missing; a dynamic that was organically nurtured and developed over three ardous seasons. In terms of percentage importance it was Fabregas 40 %, Hleb 40 %, Flamini 20 %.
Flamini is a loss though, I won’t deny that.
arthur3sheds Replied: August 24th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Got to strongly disagree with you there Mazza.
Like you, I know nothing about Inler. Barry as good as he is does not have the engine or the aggression to do what Flamini did. Personally from what I saw Diarra was not even an adequate replacement for Flamini simply because he could not have a consistent impact on the game as Flamini did. Diarra sometimes appeared not to be on the pitch, Flamini imposed himself always despite the inferior technical ability.
Joshuad got it spot on it is not his technical ability that made Flamini so important to us. I am still hoping Denilson can step up to the plate however, though I doubt he has the necessary abilities to do so.
“Yeah, but we were all expecting Wenger to actually REPLACE him - not stick with Denilson.”
Ok, so you got that wrong too
Fred Replied: August 24th, 2008 at 3:26 am
Got what wrong??
Flamini is not hard to replace if you actually buy somebody to replace him … where are you coming from?
arthur3sheds Replied: August 24th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Fred name a good replacement then. There is a possibility that Wenger cannot get the perfect replacement i.e he does not want to come or is too highly priced. If he was easy to replace then Denilson, Diaby or Ramsey should be able to do the job. Not the case though is it?
Fred Replied: August 24th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Jeez, what is hard to understand …. Denilson and Diaby are not “hustler” type CMs so they cant. Any hardworking CM can replicate that….
There are MANY CMs out there that can do a job … there is Corluka, there is De La Red, there is Inler there are many other “unknowns” out there.
Wenger is just trying to be “cheap” … cheap does not get you anywhere.
arthur3sheds Replied: August 24th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Fred you miss my point, the point i am trying to make is that to find an adequate replacement for Flamini is not that easy.
First of all you did as I did rule out almost our enitre midfield i.e Denilson & Diaby, yes I agree they are not the “hustler” type. Then you come up with De La Red, I ain’t seen him play at length and he he is untested in the premiership not sure he has the experience to find his way straight away, and of course he is not for sale. Can Corluka have the impact Flamini had in our side, I doubt it however I will bet he will be overpriced or not for sale.
As for the unknowns that’s what they remain unknown not neccesarily going to be an instant success at 6 million. Best option would have been to keep Famini and pay him a little extra.
Hleb was never a complete answer. His ability is always dependent on the players around him (even more than is accepted as normal). His weakness was hi-lighted through the protracted absences of RvP and Rosicky. If RvP and Rosicky had contributed anything like a reasonable season we’d likely be champions, Flam and Hleb would likely have stayed, Ade’s head wouldn’t have turned, and Wener would have a base upon which to further build and develop the ‘Le Grande’ experiment.
It didn’t happen so the experiment has unravelled a little bit (or perhaps not so little).
Having a field day eh guys? Have fun. The vehemence of some comments really makes me wonder - How desperate are you to get proved right so you can shove it down people’s throats? Anyway its a free board. Continue writing.
Saw the full game. Here are my views:
Almunia - Did Fulham even hav e a shot on goal apart from the goal? Cant blame too much.
Sagna - Reasonable going forward , tried to take the game by the scruff by putting in a large number of crosses in. Sadly a lot of them were off target as well. Still atleast he tried.
Clichy; Pretty much like Sagna, some nice link up play at times with Nasri and tried getting into the box as well. No end product though.
Toure - Recovery pace got us out of jail once or twice. Made fewer driving runs forward though than usual and got subbed. Still working his way back from Malaria? Fitness? Role change? Dunno.
Gallas - Direct fault for the goal. Lost his marker - free tapin. Thats 2 mistakes in 2 games now. Last week we got lucky - this week we weren’t.
Nasri - Breath of fresh air in a tepid tepid game. Tried a lot but nothing came off..primarily due to a virtually non existent midfield.
Denilson - I thought he wasn’t the worst player on the pitch. Atleast he was showing himself — which is good. Really though that isn’t saying much at all. Passing was off and too many square passes. The reaction overall though was quite OTT considering no one was playing well.
Eboue - Sad to say although he made a few nice driving runs late on and actually got fouled!!! .. his overall DM position is in major threat as is his spot in the team IMO. The biggest problem is — Who goes forward when? Who goes into defense when? No linkups what so ever.
Theo - Too much running into blind alleys and getting shrugged off. If he can stop , wait and think before starting to run on whether there is a pass on he will be fine. Lets hope that he develops faster.
RVP - Worst on the night for me. What has he done all season? Still rusty? I dont know why. Those free kicks were all RVP range. I’m not saying 4 goals but atleast over the wall. Even in open play he was practically invisible. Needs to come good..fast.
Ade - Tried a lot. Most potent attacker. Unlucky with the post header. Cant fault the front man too much though if the midfield performed so poorly.
Bendtner - Poor. Why was he waving his arms in the air so much? How much did he touch the ball?
Song - Best player on the night. Opening up Fulham’s defenses with his runs and balls forward in 15 minutes. Maybe should have started instead of Eboue but thats not how AW works anyway.
Lastly why were we so out of touch with the slickness of the pitch??? How many times did the ball run out of play? That said it all for me. Overhit passes.
Big improvement needed. I’m guessing the same squad starts against Twente as well with only Song in place of Eboue. Thats what AW will do. Demand a reaction. Hope we improve - has to be one of our poorest performances after that dreadful Sheffield United game where we lost 1-0.
p.s… What everyone’s saying now about Denilson — everyone were saying about Ade, Flam, Song etc. He had an off day — not equal —to he is shit.
Fred Replied: August 24th, 2008 at 3:44 am
“”Having a field day eh guys? Have fun. The vehemence of some comments really makes me wonder - How desperate are you to get proved right so you can shove it down people’s throats? Anyway its a free board. Continue writing.”"
Honestly and I am really saying this with respect, are you really blind or you are just saying this out of stubbornness? Are you really telling me that you think this squad is strong enough to at least get into 2 place or a close 3rd? Or do you have a fixed, permanent mindset.
Please tell me … what is wrong with Wenger going and buying some competent unknown and hardworking CM (in the competence mold of Sagna/Eduardo) for about 5 to 8 million and getting a RM for about the same or even trying to nick an experienced guy for RM like he did with Silvestre???
What is wrong with getting in 2 more players for midfield for 15 to 20 max and thereby increasing our squad depth and also allowing us not to flog Fabregas, Nasri and Rosicky to death by February while also winning matches and at least putting in a solid challenge for the title?
Is that an immoral, unethical thing to do? Or are your thoughts set in stone??
Problem is when mediocre players like Denilson have an off day it is catastrophic. Lampard can have a shit day but still not look as bad and then either Ballack, Deco or Essien can always lift the team.
If Cesc has an off day, we’ll look to Walcott, Eboue, Ramsey..
Please AW this is becoming painful to watch. I’m so glad I don’t pay to watch these games live. I think I’d have a fit
live_dont_exist Replied: August 24th, 2008 at 1:14 am
In that case since we’re never going to get Ballack,Lampard,Deco,Essien what do you propose we do?
Fred Replied: August 24th, 2008 at 3:35 am
Get some else in - cheap, competent, hardworking, mid-twenties, for about 5 to 8 million. How about that?
Okay Mazza, Flamini may have been pulling on sleeves and barking out orders with little skill etc. but who was doing that yesterday? When the team was getting bossed in midfield, who was out there directing traffic and giving guidance? Who was out there taking fouls when we needed to relieve the pressure that Fulham put on us? Which of our technical guys were out there to fight when we needed someone to put in a strong tackle and try to change the tone? Who was out there urging the team on? That’s what leaders do, with or without an armband, and that’s what Flamini gave us.
Also agree with live_dont_exsist in that Denilson is a descent player and he didn’t just turn to crap overnight. Fabregas has had bad games where he gave the ball away, too. It’s just that he had help when his form was bad. Don’t know if Fab has had as bad a night as Denilson did last night.? He’s still a young guy. We’ll see how he does.
What do you mean? So the excuse now is that he is out of form? He has played badly in the 3 competitive matches, but its just lack of form for Denilson….
How about we get in somebody competent in the “sagna” mold for 6 and 7 million (ie. CHEAP, wont break the bank) so that our results wont suffer why Denilson gets back to form if he can manage that??
Some talk as if Arsenal is a charity that should be looking out for the player’s personal interests. Wow!
joshuad Replied: August 24th, 2008 at 10:34 am
No, Fred. Don’t be ridiculous. It’s to say that all players have bad games. Perhaps Denilson just had a bad game yesterday. Perhaps he’s having a bad bit of form early in the season. Perhaps he needs better players around him to be at his best. But we’ve all seen him play and know that he can play. Sure we could go out and buy someone but they can have a bad run of games as well. Fabregas could come back and have a bad run of games. Where does it end?
Lastly, it’s not about losing Hleb but it’s not about adequately replacing his contribution to our overall style of play. You are biased against the guy seemingly because you believe he should have scored more. Well, scoring goals is not a strength of his game. What can you do? It’s possible for an AM player to control/distribute the ball and be important to the team’s overall play and not be a good finisher. I’m always happy when a player plays within himself and Hleb did that.
I agree that if we get another playmaker in, we may not miss Hleb. But we haven’t gotten another playmaker in. Where does that leave us?
Fred Replied: August 24th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Please stop talking about Hleb.
My conclusion is that we need to do something - ie. buy somebody in CM. We cant afford to fooling around with a “youth” player who cant grab a golden opportunity when it is handed to him.
Wenger explained the issue - it’s Le Grande Experiment. It’s not that there aren’t players available in the 23-25 age-group. It’s Wenger’s commitment to his new approach - buy young or not at all. He wants to grow a young team, knit it together, and in his mind buying older players will undermine this venture. That’s why he refers to “not wanting to hold the young players back”.
What about Sagna and Eduardo? Well I’m guessing he has a (small) magic number of older players that he’s prepared to tolerate in the masterplan. And anyway Sagna and Eduardo were relatively unknown so they were semi-acceptable.
The basic idea of growing a young team makes a lot of sense, the issue is how far you should go to achieve the benefits and still remain capable of challenging for the title? Wenger, as with his footballing style, seems to be going to an extreme. This is where I have lost faith in his approach. You could see the quick impact Eduardo and Sagna had on the squad compared to the bevy of young players. The young guys bloom when they bloom - contrast Eduardo and Sagna - they’re much more able to be loaded with responsbility quickly and to provide a return.
And contrary to the economic argument, the outlay for Eduardo and Sagna is not that much more than for a Walcott or Ramsey. Wenger would argue…..”ah yes! but the up-side is much higher”.
Frankly that isn’t the issue. We are a professional football club not an investment bank. I’m all for fiscal prudence and commercially astute management but if we don’t win trophies this is all going to be a tad academic.
Fred, that’s correct. I didn’t agree that we would easily replace Flamini and I still don’t. That was for 3 reasons.
1. Flamini had worked out how to fill the role rather nicely. I liked what he brought to the role, and his 3 years at the club provided him a good base of knowing how the team played. Add to that his good relationships with his team-mates particularly Fab and Hleb. Not to mention his willingness to do what I call the dirty-work and to play the hardman.
2. I couldn’t see any internal candidates with similar attributes.
3. I very much doubted that Wenger would turn around and quickly fill the void from outside.
I wonder if Wenger is missing Dein?
Would things have got so extreme if Dein was around to chew the fat?
Would we be days away from the close of the xfer window, having watched Wenger salivating at signing the 17 year old Ramsey when Diarra, Flamini and Gilberto 3 international central midfielders have just walked out the door?
Just a random thought, but I wonder whether being in Wenger’s shoes is not extremely lonely. Sure he has his trusted coaching staff but I’m guessing Dein was on another level - able to toss around ideas without any fear with Wenger. After all, they were both good friends and ultimately Dein was Wenger’s paymaster. Now who challenges Wenger’s thinking? Who says, I’ll call the Liverpool chairman and finalise a deal for Alonso……or whoever.
Kiwi, your comments are on the money; particularly the ones concerning Dein and Flamini; particularly Flamini. He did the dirty work so that our technical players could be more technical. Right now, we’re like the galacticos without Makelele. Somebody’s got to do the dirty work. I thought Muamba had all the necessary qualities to do the job. Maybe Song will be our guy. Time will tell.
some of the comments are pretty biased. gave me an impression some ppl are more concerned of talking up the players they rate, and trashing the players they don’t rate regardless of the actual performance on the pitch.
for instance, yesterday’s match what’s our real problem? that we couldnt win the ball back? or we couldn’t create chances and kept possession?
i m sicked of Eboue’s play acting antics, but was he the worst performance yesterday as a DM? did he fail to win the ball back? was he the one who often lost the ball?
I rate Denilson, and still do. yet from what i seen, Denilson was playing in the Fabregas role yesterday, the one who’s supposed to create and keep our passing game going. Did he ma
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:54 am
Boys, the word around the campfire is Armand Traore is in line for his Portsmouth debut against Man United on Monday night. I rate this kid very highly as a LM and expect him to put on a show. I know there’s a difference playing in the reserves league and playing against the two-time defending BPL and European Champions but I think this kid has got all the goods. As some of you may remember, I campaigned heavily for Traore to be given a chance at LM when Rosicky went down injured. For some reason, Wenger insisted with Diaby. It’s a Monday night game so it should be on essentially everywhere, except Iraq, so I want to encourage you guys to watch young Armand do his thing.
At the same time I was lobbying for Traore to play, I was talking about the real likelihood of Flamini leaving. After he officially left, we were talking about his replacement. I dropped Fabrice Muamba’s name in the hat as he was everything I thought we needed. He’s young, English U-21, big and strong, very fit, hard-working, a good tackler, good in the air, already knows Wengerball, has two years BPL experience, and has played along side Fabregas, Bendtner, van Persie, and Clichy before. I’m sure we had the first option to buy him and I’m sure he would have jumped at the chance to come back. Lastly, he would have been cheap.
Muamba left, not because he wasn’t good enough, but there were too many guys in front of him at the time for Wenger to promise him the first team football he would have if he signed for Birmingham. Well, those guys in front of him are all gone now. I know it’s a moot point as he’s already signed for Bolton. I’m just comparing that to who we’ve actually brought in this summer and I still think mine was a good idea. You guys have already thrown knives at me for suggesting him come back and maybe time will tell that you were right. Maybe Diaby will evolve into the new Vieira but I have little confidence in him progressing much further. In fact, when Spurs or Portsmouth or who ever it was offered us 7 million for him in January, I didn’t say it but I think we should have taken the money. Hopefully time will prove me wrong.
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:55 am
Sorry for not being able to submit a decent preview guys. Will try from next week onwards
As for Fulham I only hope Alex Song plays and everyone else who booed him 2 years ago feel stupid now. Really we should win against Fulham though, derby and all. The back is probably going to be(after looking at the Fulham website) —
Schwarzer
Volz Hughes Baird Konchesky
Volz an ex Arsenal product is a decent enough right back while Konchesky can still put in a cross or two. We should be able to put a couple past them though. Having said that it took a Toure run to win a penalty and a 90th minute Hleb goal before we beat them with Tony Warner!!! having a good game in goal thanks to 120 Rosicky shots being struck straight at him ;). So they can hold out and kill the game.
The midfield isn’t the worst in the world though on paper. Bullard is quality - vision and dead balls and with Zoltan Gera(WBA playmaker) and Mazza’s all time favorite Danny Murphy in there
as well they can create a bit.
Andy Johnson is injured yet again though and wont start. So it’ll probably be Diomansy Kamara and Bobby Zamora to start. Wasn’t it Zamora in that 2-3 loss when Sol broke down who scored??
So yeah a reasonable mid table squad if all those players perform to their ability.
As for us here’s what we will see:
Almunia
Sagna Gallas Toure Clichy
Eboue Denilson Song Nasri
Ade RVP
Subs: Fabinaski, Theo, Bendtner, Ramsey, Wilshere, Djourou, Silvestre
Fulham 0 - Arsenal 2
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:32 am
here’s my prediction of the lineup -
Almunia
Sagna Gallas Djourou Clichy
Toure Eboue Denilson Nasri
Ade RvP
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:26 am
josh, understand where u coming from of the idea Traore at LM. nevertheless, i think his best position in a long run is still at LB.
yes he did impress in a couple of occassions coming on as LM. but note - on those occassions he came on as a SUBS, while oppositions legs were already tired. with his pace and skills, he made an impact there. pretty much similiar to Theo Walcott when he came on as a subs that injected an energy boost to our side when the oppositions starting to tire down.
even if as a starter, I think Traore is too direct a player to be a LM. basically go back to where Mazza’s point before, I very much perfer Mazza’s theory of having two “play making” widemen instead of out and out pacy wingers in our side these days.
our style has changed, especailly since moving to a bigger pitch Emirates, and the departure of class of 2004.
anyway it’s too early to say he will make it as a LM or LB, as we have seen too little of him so far to understand what’s his strength and weakness. having a spell at Portsmouth will be doing him all the good.
there are some youngsters when we loaned him out it means they are on the blink of out of the team (putting them in the shopping window).
yet in some other cases, to me, it’s more like a final learning course before they are about to earn graduation (to the first team).
to me, Traore falls into the Bendtner-Djourou category, meaning that he will be in AW’s first team plan next season.
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:28 am
If we play that team we lose. Fulham 2-1 Arsenal.
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:33 am
I don’t see the consistency in Traore. I think he will struggle big time at Portsmouth. I’m actually cringing at the thought of him playing left-wing for Portsmouth on Monday.
He’s a quick, skillful player but very much in the Theo Walcott mold in terms of lacking composure and intelligence to pace himself over the full ninety minutes.
I expect him to start off fast on Monday and then completely fade from the game and get subbed after sixty minutes. There’s always a chance that in this fast start he does something special. He certainly has the raw ability.
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:16 am
With What line up you think we would win then?
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:33 am
The midfield is not strong enough. Fulham is a place where you have to assert your technical dominance over them early on. If you do that, they can be kept under wraps quite easily. If your midfield does not have the quality/confidence to assert themselves- and I don’t think that midfield does- Fulham can be a dangerous team who can quite easily score a few goals and hang with the bigger teams.
Our midfield in the same fixture last year contained Hleb, Rosicky and Fabregas. They managed to make that tricky exercise look rather easy; alot easier than it actually is. That midfield is on totally different technical level to the one we’re likely to reel out today. Today’s team will not have the same command of the ball and this will allow Fulham to impose their game on us.
We could still win, especially if we score early on and can afford to pick them off, but with the international break dulling the senses of our players and subsequentially, our technical game, I’m fairly sure we will struggle today and likely lose.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:02 am
fair enough. at least u gave me some logic behind ur thinking rather than like last season just saying we are going to lose for the sake of it.
yes, to be able to control the game will be the key. if we play like against Twente (when we couldn’t control the possession) there’s a chance we may drop points.
Obviously Denilson will be the key. he has shown some improvement, but he needs to imposing himself more to, use ur words previoulsy, help us getting a foothold in the game.
Nasri will be another. He did well in his debut. but that was a home game with fans cheering behind, things were bounded to be a bit easier than the bread and butter away match. Consider his still a new player of us, will he be able to substain the same level of impact in an away match?
Toure on the right is not that something i perfer us to do, just what i guess AW would be doing - to offer us some balance / and protection defensively. Unless he shifts Eboue there and play Song or the young kid Ramsey there as DM.
what i believe is AW will perfer a certain level of steability, by not to shifting around players too much from game to game. I don’t know if Eboue will really cut it as DM yet. yet since he did ok last match, if we shift him back to the RM again, not only it would cause confusion to the player himself, to the team as well.
and i also perfer some steability at the back. Djourou has not given me 100% faith that he could do the job there. yet he did ok. i don’t think it would be ideal now to move Toure back to CB so soon.
my idea is to fix it when it broke. just try to substain the steability of the team as much as we could.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:48 am
Toure may not yet be fully fit so Djourou could easily start in his place. This would not be a bad idea because he is more commanding in the air and will provide better balance against the long ball which we are certain to see.
Denilson and Nasri are known quantities but Song is the X factor which could determine whether we are able to control the midfield or not, seeing he has never played this role for Arsenal before.
Do we really need to have an extra “defensive” midfielder in Eboue for this game to add balance? I think not. I would use eithet Walcott or Vela as the wide man although Vela may be tired after his late return from Mexican international duty.
Bullard is the X factor for Fulham as he is very dangerous from set pieces and scored a magnificent free kick in week 1. Any trouble we get will most likely be from set pieces.
RVP is long overdue to put in a good performance and score a few. Anyone notice he has not scored for us in the regular season since coming back late last year? Can’t remember him scoring in the pre-season also. If I’m wrong please correct me.
Score Arsenal 2-1 Fulham
Lineup should read:
Almunia
Sagna, Gallas, Djourou, Clichy
Toure/Walcott, Denilson, Song, Nasri
RVP, Ade
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
RVP has not been sharp for us. His last goals were for Holland. I’d also like to see if Walcott can get something going this week.
Despite Song not playing the role for us, he just finished in that role for Cameroon and he played it for Charlton when they were still in the EPL. Silvestre’s arrival has Wenger linking Song w/ MF in the same sentence so we will see.
Denilson has to know w/ Fabregas coming and it will then be between him and player X for the other CM spot.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:41 am
I tend to agree with LDE’s lineup a bit more. Wouldn’t be shocked for Theo to start on the right either, leaving it a choice between Eboue and Song IMO for the CDM slot. I hope Song is there. Definitely like the balance of the bench much more in this match than last week.
One thing, Fulham accepted Ipswich’s bid for Volz so I don’t think he will play.
Traore in midfield is fine as he is still learning all the challenges of defending. I just hope he gets games. I like the idea of having players on the bench capable of LM or LB. With Silvestre as veteran cover I really hope Djourou goes out again on loan for starting play or Senderos is sold. I still consider myself a Senderos supporter- he still has several years to improve judgement, etc. but I won’t be nearly as bummed if he leaves as I was with Flamini.
2-0 to Gunners. Adebayor & RvP.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:57 am
In response to the earlier piece about Traore.
Barring severe injury, Traore has all the tools to make it and will do so whether it’s for Arsenal or another team. Unlike Walcott, he has more than just pace and is very gifted technically. Even now, his crosses and shooting are equal to if not exceeding Clichy.
What he lacks now is defensive awareness and consistency, all of which will come with experience.
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:40 am
Without a hint of sarcasm, thank you for the preview.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Come on. At least there’s a thread where you can type things in.
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:55 am
Sp**s: 1 Sunderland: 2. A Cisse goal secures the win and an 0-2 start for ‘friends’. Money cannot buy you happiness and it doesn’t appear to buy you a good football team. I was impressed w/ Sunderland in their lost to Liverpool last week and they’ve done themselves proud today.
Berbatov was not even on the bench. Cisse’s header beats King and Woodgate who are not considered defensive slouches in the air. Go figure.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
How many times has Stevie G done that? H o w m a n y t i m e s??? Its no wonder he is such a legend there.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Glad to see that David “I have made it BIG” Bentley is fulfilling his “ambition” at Bottemham Hotspur.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:08 pm
damn that Steven Gerrard is being such a “master card player” - PRICELESS.
without a doubt England’s best all around player at the moment, and the Premiership top - match winner. how many times he had saved Liverpool’s ass?
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:10 pm
damn LDE, i was asking the SAME question! how many times????!!!!! if he’s available, i don’t care if he’s cost 30 mil, go for him! he’s worth every single penny. not that because he’s a top quality player, but boy his DRIVE, and the ability to singlehandly turn a match, this is something money can’t buy.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Teams on:
Almunia
Clichy Gallas Toure Sagna
Theo Eboue Denilson Nasri
Ade RVP
Subs: Djourou Wilshere Gibbs Ramsey Fabianski Song Bendtner
Song didnt start else I got the line up right. Do I get a medal?
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:33 pm
You get a bronze
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Don’t rate Gerrard. He does feck all for the whole game and then gets a token late goal. Of course, he’s got a good shot and penchant for the spectacular but I would take Lampard over the simple scouser any day.
Bentley looks like a poor signing at moment. Playing too deep with Modric.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Take Gerrard every day and twice on Sunday over Lampard.
How are winning goals token?
My sense is Gerrard complements other better and a bit more flexibility.
Bentley’s dead ball and crossing skills are v. good. That said I hope he does poorly.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
You got to be kidding me Mazza. Seriously. What else does a manager want? If he can come up with winning goals in big games in crunch situations without doing it for 89 minutes…who cares?? Steven Gerrard lifts a team like no other footballer I have seen in all my life. Maybe there are better players footbalistically(ugggh) speaking — but there is only one Steven Gerrard - the complete package.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Wenger selected Eboue over Song for CDM.
Almunia
Sagna Toure Gallas Clichy
Walcott Eboue Denilson Nasri
Adebayor v. Persie
I watched Tottenham stink again.
Liverpool starting out lucky- class putting them over the top. Torres last week, Gerrard this one.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Mazza, as i said, i don’t rate him as a top quality player, but he’s a “match winner”.
money today can buy a lot of top quality players, as they are plenty of skillful players out there. but a player with a match winning mentality are rare. genernally with Gerrard on the pitch, i bet the Kop know they have someone they can “count on” when the tide is against them. very much like our very own Tony Adams. that dont’ discount the team cos our captain will not give up until the final whistle.
that to me is something you can’t find in too many players ,however talented they are.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:26 pm
or put it another way, if you let me to build a team from nothing, I would first start with a player like Gerrard or Adams or Roy Keane, they don’t have to be the BEST players around, but they are the one who wouldnt give up without a fight, they are going to be the “soul” of my team. then build my team around them, adding the more flair and gifted players later.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Eboue 3 give aways in 9 min. MF not establishing our attack yet. bad miss by RVP. Still not sharp.
Fulham up 1-0, Hangeland beating Gallas to volley a CK.
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:03 pm
gallas is ball watching!!! in fact, he shrugges his shoulders like a schoolgirl to shield himself!!
SHAMEFULL DEFENDING!!!
it remind me of the mistakes viera used to make in his last year with us….
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Wow! Down 1-0 at halftime to a team that lost to Hull last weekend. Outside of two offensive chances we created for ourselves, we have been outplayed at every turn. Our central midfield is non-existent, Gallas provided very little in the way of a challenge on the corner kick, and our set pieces have been atrocious. We better clean this mess up for the second half. I would get Eboue off the pitch. Put Bendtner on and go with three up front if we are really that short in the midfield.
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Don’t worry. We will win this one. Playing like crap though.
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Walcott is still fooling around - but at least a little better than before … just a little.
But the real big PROBLEM is Denilson and Eboue. They contribute absolutely NOTHING to the attack or the defence. They cant even hold the ball for 2 seconds. Or even do some sort of running forward - even if its aimless like Diaby.
They do NOT protect the defense.
Infact Denilson and Eboue are there just to so that we will have 11 players.
Sure they can tackle and make some pass….but they wont tackle anybody unless the person confronts them directly.
The Fulham CM is running rings around them.
We have ABSOLUTELY no central midfield and when you combine that with chronic weakness at RM - we are probably doing very well!
Denilson had a look at the ball coming in….but decided he already had his own man to mark, so why stick out your leg for the ball? LOL.
Its exactly the same as last season, only that we no longer have a midfield. Oh well!
I hope we can just take a point. At least its a derby and its away. We still have 8 days to bring in the DM and RM we DESPERATELY need. And we dont even need to break the bank for them. Wenger, over to you.
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Understand, boys that I too rate the playmaking wide guys to the typical pacy wingers. My point was to emphasize that when Rosicky went down, we didn’t have any playmakers to put on the left. I believe Traore was the best option out of the guys that we had available to include Diaby and Walcott.
Last summer when guys were lobbying for Eboue to play at RW and Hleb to be dropped, I tried to make the point that Eboue could not create like Hleb did and he wouldn’t be nearly as effective. The pre-season game against Inter Milan proved to be an illusion.
My point is that I rate Traore higher than Theo, Eboue, Walcott, and Diaby. Sure, we only got to see him late in games last year but that boy is very fit and very dangerous. He can maintain that pace for ninety minutes. His judgement is already better than Walcott’s. He has that picture in his head of what he wants to do that Walcott hasn’t developed yet and his ball skills and fast feet are probably just as good. We didn’t need him to play every game but to give him a chance before the season was essentially over was what I had hoped for.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Can’t see the game but it looks as if what I thought might happen last weekend is happening this weekend. It looks as though we’ll miss Hleb as well as Flamini. Even when Fabregas comes back, it will better but it will still be hard as people will just mark and kick the crap out of the young Spaniard. With no Hleb or Rosicky, he has no one to help him carry the playmaking load. Denilson is a good player but he doesn’t have the ambition to make positive plays. His game is more lateral. If he doesn’t develop that defense-splitting component and we lose Fabregas, we’ll be in trouble.
I’ll have to wait and hear what you guys have to say about the players performance. Right now we haven’t hit a single shot on target according to Gamecast.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Absolutely embarrassing. I am curious to hear Wenger’s excuses after this debacle.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Poor, poor, poor, poor! The best player on the pitch for Arsenal: Nasri. No one else is worth commenting on or berating because they played up to their limitations. I take that back, Gallas is playing like a player who is surviving on his rep. In fact, if Gallas does not play better, he’ll be my new whipping boy
His defending not for the first time has been a day late and a euro short.
CL qualifier then the mighty Newcastle.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:31 pm
fair to say, Denilson has had an absoutely shocker. i think over 90% of his passes went straight to opponents. he needs to do much better than that. i still rate him as a player, but he gotta know his performance today was not acceptable by Arsenal’s standard.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:07 pm
“he needs to do much better than that.”
Are you implying that Denilson should get another starting chance??
Denilson is physically weak, he is poor going forward and poor sitting in front of defense. He does not confront runners and he never attempts through balls. Song made FOUR through balls in his 15 minutes. Denilson made ZERO.
The only thing Denilson has on the best of days is the ability to simple passes….and when the heat is on even that ability goes.
Denilson is a nothing player that plays only because we need to field 11 players.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:37 pm
No one has said it yet but Fulham played a really good game. Obviously our boys were not on this week. RvP should have scored, Ade was unlucky and Denilson should go back to Brazil BUT Jimmy Bullard (Man of the Match for me), Hangeland, Seol, Davies and company had a great outing and were COMMITTED to playing as a team and securing victory. They didn’t even turtle up completely after scoring and went looking for a second to put the game away.
We need Fab, Rosicky and Eduardo back pronto. Plus a proven player like Gareth Barry. Arsene should go spend 30 million ASAP on players who want to win.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Perhaps the other signing that AW makes should be for an attacking MF, someone who can provide some additional cover/ambition/service when Cesc is out?
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Sigh. I’m going to content myself with watching Nasri’s goal against WBA on DVR for now.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:48 pm
So all those hippie optimists in here will now fully understand why I was strongly optimistic last season and have now flipped.
Last season, we consistently salvaged matches like this - even if just for a draw.
We put out a team stronger than this against Boro last season and got beat. But it was in late November, it was cold, the playing pitch was rough and it was away up north. In contrast this is still summer, and it is very close to home on an OK playing surface.
The only reason we cant fall out of the top 4 is because all the teams outside the top 4 are shit.
Last season we played Wengerball and still managed to frustrate in part. Now Wenger has weakened the team so much we cant even play basic good football let alone think of winning.
Denilson is UTTER, COMPLETE, PROFOUND shit. He is useless and completely out of his depth, even when standing beside Eboue, that is how pointless he is.
Alex Song came in and was intrinsically and incredibly far more dynamic than Denilson will ever be.
Eboue is also useless, the only thing he does is those curved runs and yet he never tries to do anything killer with it, he is ALWAYS looking for the foul - which is probably best considering he doesnt have the brain to pull anything else off.
I double-dare Wenger not to buy anybody in the next 8 days. If he doesnt and we crash and burn as I suspect, it will be clear he has lost the plot completely - ala Brian Clough in his final days - and it will probably be time for him to step down.
Lets be clear we desperately NEED a CM and a RM - just to have a respectable season. We dont need to break the bank, just bring them in.
And please let me not hear anything about 100 million loses … that is a tell tale sign that one has a big time complex about Chelsea. Lets spend 10 to 20 million and focus on ourselves. In this and last summer we have made a transfer market profit (sold players minus bought players) of almost 30 million.
We are not anywhere close to making a club loss, so where all the Chelsea complex is coming from is beyond me.
Ratings:
Almunia: 5, whatever
Sagna: 6, wasnt getting in quality crosses though.
Gallas: 5, ball watching.
Toure: 5, average.
Clichy: 6, got forward a lot, didnt put in any quality crosses.
Nasri: 7, he is SUFFERING playing beside Denilson and Eboue.
Denilson: 2, utterly useless, an incredible joke.
Eboue: 3, another failed experiment in a new position.
Walcott: 4, damn, slightly better than last week, but still way off.
Ade: 6, was our most likely route to a goal.
RvP: 4, how hard is it to get the ball over the wall???
Bendtner: 5, did nothing really.
Song: 7, was up and about when he came on. why he didnt start I will never know.
Wenger, get your head out of the sand NOW, it is incredible I am repeating that same statement for the second saturday in a row.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Fred I cannot see how Nasri could have got a 7 he rarely gave the ball away but did quite predictable things all game. He refused to really run at anyone unlike Eboue. and the only reason Eboue got fouled was not because he was looking for it but because he was making dangerous in roads and had to be stopped.
I would have probably given Nasri and Eboue both a 5.5 just above average. Toure was our rock in defence even making several clearances with his head, solid performance in my opinion deserving of 6 or 6.5 along with our SBs.
Cannot see how RvP or Walcott could have got higher marks than Eboue.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Eboue didnt make any “dangerous” runs … any retard can run, doing something with the ball at that point requires a brain. He was BEGGING to be fouled. Make no mistake.
Toure did nothing that he shouldnt have done. At this time last season he was making runs through the midfield, and he was even floating some useful long balls … the fact that he made some unchallenged headers without shitting his pants doesnt mean he is a “rock”.
With Fulham basically playing a tight 5-5-0, Nasri will need to make runs to the center (without the ball) and have the CMs give him the ball … there comes the problem - we dont have a CM.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:41 pm
LOL
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Great assessment of Denilson Andez he looked way out of his league.
We have to do something about that DM position, no time to wait for Denilson to mature, I think Song is the best we have no matter what Arsene think s about his stamina, he has not been found wanting for Cameroon.
I think Toure was our best player alongside Sagna and Clichy, cannot see why he was taken off. Arsene should have stuck to the original sub of Song for Denilson.
Real disheartening performance, we need some steel in the middle of the park and some real creativity, playmaking ability in there. Eboue was effective running with the ball on occasion and made a couple interceptions but is not my idea of steel, Denilson woeful, Song can provide steel and a creative, defence splitting pass but was placed at CB instead of Toure who was performing well.
All said and done we looked flat and stale even Nasri and Perse were of little use. Hope we can turn a corner next week.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:52 pm
PS: Its so hilarious the way the likes of Wilshere and Ramsey were given relatively low shirt numbers … yet Wenger doesnt have the remotest compulsion to throw them in any of these games lol.
If Ramsey cant come in even for a WOEFUL Denilson then you know Wenger has realized his delusion of squad depth.
This season is a STRONG return to two, three seasons ago. The central theme of those seasons were utter frustration.
Wenger, you have 8 days. FIX IT or I want your head.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Wenger really has no excuse. If a meagre fan like myself can deduce a year and a half ago that Denilson should be nowhere near this Arsenal side then how can he still not see it?
Eboue as well. The guy who makes a good run through the centre and PRAYS that someone takes him from behind so he doesn’t have to make a decision.
Theo Walcott. Why the hell did Wenger even pay big money for this dick two years ago? Harry Redknapp’s reaction at the time spoke volumes. He never rated the boy and could only say that he could run over water without leaving a puddle. He had nothing positive to say about his game intelligence. Redknapp’s reaction, plus a few games watching him, was all I needed to see how mediocre Walcott was.
I suppose I’ll have to read that Wenger interview again. The one where blathers on about values and tradition of the club and morals. But then, he says that in EVERY interview when asked about new players. Somehow thinks that having morals and values means you have to persist with mediocrity like Eboue and Denilson. Am I missing something by calling bullshit on that one? Everyone else’s knees seem to turn to jelly when Wenger spews this drivel.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:03 pm
what. the. (f) uck.
that was among the worst performances i’ve ever seen the lads put forth.
shameful…
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:07 pm
ALL our youngsters are rank average. It’s amazing how Wenger has spent lots of money and time on assembling such a rank average collection of kids.
The carling cup was and is a waste of time. Creates an illusion of depth when the reality is we’re playing unmotivated premier league and championship sides.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:16 pm
……while racking up the same wages as Man U …
Denilson/Eboue are probably on some 40k+ per week …. just 10 short of say Hargreaves or Vidic! And ofcourse just 10 short of Fabregas himself.
Thats our youth policy.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:11 pm
I am actually glad we lost. ITs early and we needed this wake up call. Even better it happened before the transfer window closes. Wenger needs to wake the hell up. This was an awful performance. Terrible.
I think todays game highlighted the needs for 2 midfielders. one defensive monster… one more creative to cover for Cesc. Both must be proven. Not some 15 year old.
Im looking forward to hearing Wengers excuses this time.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Mazza, now i m confused. they now become “youngsters” again? based on ur previous theory, shouldn’t only Theo and Denilson be counted as youngsters?
But well, it doesn’t surpise me at all WHO’s the one who speaks the LOUDEST whenever we suffered a defeat.
boy boy boy you guys are really getting excited aren’t you?! have fun!
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Two players is alot Andez, especially right and central midfield.
Replace Denilson and Walcott with Fabregas and Hleb level players and we are FINE.
Everyone else played their usual game, but those two clowns plus resident clown Eboue have collectively poisoned our team.
So yes, the term ‘youngsters’ is pertinent and relevant in this case.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Also, it’s not as if Ramsay, Randall or Lansbury look any better. Stick them in and you’ll get the same result.
Of course though, we have to keep our ‘values’ and ‘morals’.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:29 pm
I said worse things when we WON last weekend.
But ofcourse for you the fact that we won meant that all was good.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:21 pm
We lose Alex Hleb, we lose everything in our game.
I said last year if he left we would lose 70 % of our playmaking ability. Of course, everyone(Arthur
) blabbered on about ‘Ade is the Dade’ and all that crap. Without our telepathic midfield of Hleb and Fabregas, we are NOTHING.
Adebayor is nothing but an ugly duckling without the spice boys in midfield.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:30 pm
That is bending the truth strongly considering we have ONLY Nasri in midfield.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Fabregas, as good as he is, is still only one player. As Joshuad said, he will get hacked by the opposition and he will take a while to get match fit.
Fabregas’s return will only improve things marginally imo.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:48 pm
If we had Hleib instead of Nasri the result of this game would have been the same.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Not true.
Nasri was awful in the first half.
You don’t even understand how good Hleb was. Shown by comments such as ‘Vela has the same holding ability of Hleb but he can shoot’, and ‘we are stronger on the flanks than last year’. All wishful and deluded thinking IMO.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Rosicky was in that same boat when he had to play without his other two amigos and everyone was saying how crap he is.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Hleb was the only who played without his two amigos and made it WORK. At Aston Villa away, when he was sensational. Until Carew hacked him down.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
LOL!!! You Hleb lover you! get over it he’s gone, feed the Dade and he will score, Perse will do that when he is in form. I think at this moment in time we miss Flamini the most and Fab of course.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Boy we just looked so average across the board. Even our good players good dragged into the general air of mediocrity. No sparkle, no drive, no passion.
The jig is clearly up on our make-shift midfield surely. How much longer do we have to persist with people who no longer show any potential for improvement?
It’s horrible to lose so soon, but it’s for the best. We need the wake-up call to avoid another almost/nearly season. Come on, Arsene, let’s go shopping.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:39 pm
I suppose the buck ends up at Arsene’s doorstep but those are some strong words, wonder what the Spuds fans are saying about Ramos right now.
I agree that it is a gamble investing so much in youngsters as time will only tell what they will amount to but all our youngsters are not rank average but surely they have put in rank average and below performances today and unfortunately they will do so again in the future.
This performance reminds me of two seasons ago we barely made the CL and only because we had no serious competition from the chasing pack. We will need to fix up fast as moral/confidence will be crucial to our title aspirations.
Remember the season has only just started, I think we need to get more evidence before we can draw too many conclusions about this side.
Hope Arsene will bring in a combative midfielder like that new kid we got Colequin but with some experience of course, forget Barry and Alsono, a real fighter.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Game Summation:
Arsenal was completely out of synch for the entire game, even in the last 10 minutes when we completely dominated. Even Sagna and Clichy, although having good defensive games, had uncharacteristic mistakes in ball control and passing.
We played like a rudder less sailboat without wind and a captain.
Fulham deserved to win although we created more half chances and Ade looked our most dangerous forward and managed to hit the post with a very difficult header. RVP looked dangerous at times, especially when we went to 4-3-3 with him playing the trailing forward, but did not look sharp taking corners and three perfectly positioned free kicks. RVP had the best chance to tie the score in the first half with a near post chance which he totally wasted.
The inner midfield duo of Eboue and Denilson looked like a high school pair and provided nothing in the way of defense, attack or creativy, thus allowing Fulham to control the MF for the entire game. This lack of service left Walcott in a void and he has yet learned how to impose his will on the game.
Nasri was our sole light in MF, forced his presence on the game but could not stem the tide without support.
Toure played well, better than Gallas and made some very timely tackles. Welcome back Kolo. Gallas played well but as in the past three games was out of position at times and lost his man which resulted in Fulham’s goal after a puny attempt at recovery.
I thought it strange that Song did not start beside Denilson in the MF and even stranger that Song’s entrance into the game resulted in a straight swap for Toure rather than taking out Denilson. At that point in the game when we needed more offense this substitution offered nothing new.
Even at CB, Song imposed himself on the game for the 14 minutes he was on the pitch and left me to wonder what would have happened if he had replaced Denilson at the half. Denilson had his worst game as a Gunner and looked totally out of sorts. Bendtner came on but basically did nothing and I wondered why Vela was not even in the squad.
To sum it up neatly, our MF with the exception of Nasri stunk it up, were unable to maintain possession and totally lacked creativity.
Arsene’s Eboue experiment and substitution patterns are really getting me pissed off. Hate it when we lose, but hate it even more when we do not put the best available team on the pitch and lose.
Just my rant.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:59 pm
I remember saying last year, and many agreed with me, that Hleb and not Fabregas was the main man. When shit got tough, Hleb was our go-to guy. When we needed a rabbit out of the hat, Hleb was our magician. I said that Fab was our “Rui-Costa” but Hleb was our “Figo”. Fabregas is just more of a fan favorite; more popular.
Losing Flamini was bad enough but losing Hleb too is probably too much. The worst part was after we sold Hleb, Wenger came out and said that we would need more from Theo Walcott. That said to me that Wenger expected Theo to be the man on the right, which had doom written all over it from the start.
Actually, when we lost to Boro, the team wasn’t much weaker than it was tonight. The missing ingredients were “no Hleb, no Fab”. The same when we played Sevilla and Wenger gave both those guys the night off AT THE SAME TIME. We had Diarra, Gilberto, Diaby, and Eboue in midfield. Who was ever going to help us keep possession? Who was going to create chances? That’s when the big “tactics” debate came up and Rick was showing me so much love
There’s no surprises for me. I thought we might struggle against WBA. The writing was on the wall after the FC Twente match. We still have a second leg to play this week. It’ll be interesting to see how that works out. I have a theory that’s been on my mind for a little while. I brushed on it a little a few weeks ago and I’ll post a thread soon.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Thats a completely bullshit first sentence - no offense. Hleb pulls rabbit out of hat in what game?? Lets not go into revisionism here.
Creating over 20 league goals and scoring over 10 and making an average of 15 forward through and or over the top passes is just fan favoritism??? Really???
Stop the revisionism!
Hleb would not have done anything Nasri didnt do today. We have big problems in our team … they are in CM and RM.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Hleb spent more time deeper than Fabregas liasing with Clichy, Flamini, Sagna. He basically did a creative screening job across the pitch, turning up everywhere. He did all this so Fabregas could go forward and get into the box and make tangible assists and goals.
That’s why Hleb made our team flow better than Fabregas. He was more in the engine room, floating around. That was his brief. Fabregas had to actually go and make the direct assist or score the goal.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:17 pm
It’s true Joshuad. I’ve been one of his biggest fans but if we’re relying on someone like Fabregas then we are in trouble.
Fabregas was mediocre in so many games last season when Hleb carried the creative burden. The fact he got so many important goals in the early part of the season clouded this.
Fabregas hasn’t got the dribbling ability of Hleb. He needs players to play off and to then run onto the return ball.
Hleb had the ability to dribble players and do anything he wanted with the ball in the midfield minefield. Like he showed in our best first half of last season at Aston Villa, WITHOUT FABREGAS. He could play like Fabregas if he wanted to and then have the option of dribbling.
Of course, overall, Fabregas is the superior player, but purely in terms of creating play and creating angles, it’s Hleb every time for me.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Why are we even discussing Hleib at this point? He plays for Barca now.
All of this is speculation, but if we had Fab beside Song in this game it would have been a far different tone and Walcott would have gotten better service. However, I never thought Walcott should be considered as a first choice RM and always found him better as an impact sub in the second when he was running against tired defenses.
My point this game is that we did not field the best team available. too late now to cry over spilt milk, but think a starting MF of Nasri, Denilson, Song and Vela would have provided a lot more possession and creativity.
August 24th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Mazza “creative screening job”! LOL did you make that up on the spur of the moment or what?! Stop trying to over emphasize on Hlebs importance, as good as he is he would have struggled like everyone else against Fulham. Like Carib said there would have been little difference between him and Nasri for that game anyway.
“He could play like Fabregas if he wanted to and then have the option of dribbling.” LOL!! I really LOL! Only one phrase worthy of that statement: BS!!
I distinctly remember Hleb having mediocre & below par games last season, and in general he contributed less than our beloved Fabregas despite his dribbling ability. That spineless weak hearted so and so should not even be mentioned on the same line as Fabregas! I can still picture him with chance to put us through in the last few minutes in the champions league Q-final against Liverpool, but what does he do…
The sort of thing you would have roasted Ade for. Sums up your great superstar, as much as I appreciated his abilities I doubt his mental strength as such he could be as much largely ineffective as a match winner.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:16 pm
First we host the high flying Newcastle (they drew with us twice last season) then we have away trips up north to the “lovely” Blackburn and Bolton - both re-energized teams.
The sh-t really hasnt hit the fan yet.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:48 pm
nice to see ya here arthur!
with what happened in the summer of that Hleb, Flamini, Ade gate, I no longer bother to defend our players. when they become stars they may wanna f*ck off to other bigger clubs anyway.
how’s Denilson and Walcott’s performance today? AWFUL.
does that mean they are rubbish? Well, how many thought Flamini was not rubbish before last season?
Will Denilson and Theo DEFINITELY makes it in the future? Hell, if anyone knows about that he wouldn’t be here typing comments would he? He would have been a chief scout in a top club.
All I know is now the CHANCES they been asking for are lay there in a plate right in front of them. Playing for a top club, as stated previously, you can’t expect the opportunities will keep on coming even when you play like crap.
so it’s up to them to grab it with both hands to prove the doubters wrong.
On Denilson - don’t try too hard to “impress”, keep it SIMPLE. do not always try the through pass, especially when at the moment his confidence is clearly low.
keep the ball, keep the short passing game going, and keep the possession. I’d consider job done. at least at this early stage of his development.
On Walcott - not going to repeat here which i already said before. he can’t always be a runner forever, gotta learn how to link up play.
I firmly believe - if those guys could just keep doing the basic, and doing the basic right, they don’t need to score a goal or make an assist to become an asset to the team.
our game is all about passing and keeping possession. as long as putting a player there will not see our passing game broken, AW would keep their faith in them.
but once you start becoming the weak link which often lost possession, that means you have started becoming a LIABILITY to the team. the boss won’t be able to trust you forever with performance like that.
August 24th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Nice to be here and to see there are people with a level head still posting. Keep it up Andez amongst all the doom and gloom!
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:10 pm
All a bit grim really.
I asked the question in recent days - where are the goals coming from in these opening games? Today we saw what I feared. Fulham are an awfully average side, a team we normally roll - they looked superior to us today - how often do we say that about any team let a lone a relegation candiate like Fulham?
Last season’s chances aren’t being created. I too fear for Fabregas - teams will be able to focus on him and there is no one beside him to dish out a little retribution.
We need to reverse this quickly, our best chance of a title shot is to eek out the points, stay with the leaders, and pray that guys like RvP and Rosicky actually earn their salaries for the first time in 2 seasons.
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:33 pm
With RVP and Adebayor, as well as Walcott at a push, we have the scorers. The problem is we no longer have the midfield dynamic that enabled us to get the ball to these finishers on a consistent basis, and with the same quality.
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Mazza, I’d like to agree - the problem is the difference between theory and reality.
RvP is woefully short of sharp form and even then is likely to have long periods out on the injury table.
Walcott is still inadequate - despite the encouraging noises from supporters who hoped for a break-through season for him.
The off-season doesn’t wave a magic wand over last seasons form or inadequacies. It’s just that many fans let the lessons of last season dim and hope for better. Nothing wrong with that, after all football is just a diversion - but you can hardly pretend it’s rational analysis.
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:51 pm
These are two posts I wrote in March 2007, a year and a half ago. Now, I always find it interesting reading these posts from a personal perspective to see how my thinking has changed. It also shows things I’ve gotten right and wrong. Flamini went on to have a good season after this, even though Wenger had agreed to let him go to Birmingham. Arsenal went on to head the table the season after as well, even though my predictions of demise in the posts below were more aimed three or four years down the line. I always rated our first team in March 2007, but just didn’t feel comfortable with what was going on behind it.
Post one on the topic ‘No need to panic”:
“No need to panic but Wenger is seriously starting to irritate me.
First off, every pre-season he goes on about not going to America for a pre-season tour because it will fatigue the players. So instead of raising our profile in the States he goes off to Austrian mountains to play some part-timers. Yet, season after season we conk out around February time and play like a bunch of malnourished biafrons and Wenger releases a statement talking about how we didn’t prioritise well and next season we will have to sacrifice a trophy. Man United and Chelsea, who both went to America, are full of beans at the same juncture.
Also, his big, absolutely massive ego when it comes to buying and acquiring players. People accuse him of not wanting to buy experience but although that is a viable argument, the truth is that he does not want to buy a player anybody knows because it will not make him look a smart ass when they come off. Even Marc Overmars, who was well known, gave Wenger street cred because of his injury and William Gallas was looked on unfavourably when compared to the out-going Ashley Cole.
Look at Javier Mascherano tonight. He was immense and looks like a classic Wenger-type player, no airs and graces about his play. Wenger undoubtedly must have had an opportunity to buy him but no, everyone knew about Mascherano. Where’s the fun and street cred in buying him? Especially when you can pick up a distinctly average Brazilian in Denilson and try and make a player out him. Everyone in Sao Paulo was open-jawed when Arsenal wanted to sign Denilson. I can see why now. A competant passer but average in every other department. Usually young players come in and are brilliant from the start and then level out- like Fabregas- but Denilson came in, looked decent at best, and has fallen into complete mediocrity ever since.
So, while we shouldn’t really be panicking considering we were complete crap before Wenger arrived, we do have a manager who is slowly losing the plot. At the moment this is most notable in his transfer philosophy but it will soon seep into other aspects of his management. Arsenal are going one way- down. No amount of talented youngsters like Fran Merida are going to halt that irreversible decline. They may give us some magical moments but our path has been set. At first Wenger’s hands were tied by monetary restrictions but his ego and principles have stopped him from adapting and changing his approach to halt our slide.”
Post two on ‘No need to panic’:
“Silvestre always plays pretty darn well against us though.
Well, Rosicky was a replacement for Pires. That’s it. If Pires had stayed Wenger has said he would not have signed Rosicky. That’s my point. Wenger only buys for necessity; when it’s so obvious a player has to be bought. He will never make ruthless decisions to change our fortunes when he feels we are covered in an area numbers wise.
Two examples; Eric Djemba Djemba and Mathieu Flamini. Both managers knew both players were not good enough after a few months. Difference is Ferguson got shot of Djemba while Flamini has hung around like a bad smell for three years.
Wenger molly-cuddles too much and places too much faith in players who are patently not good enough. Like Denilson now. I can tell you with 100% certainty he will never make it but Wenger will keep on and on with him and then try and save face by sending him out for loans etc.
More interested in preserving his reputation than improving the team.”
Funny how the mention of Silvestre gets in there
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Fred, when I said pull a rabbit out I meant he could make a play from nothing. It didn’t always result in a goal or an assist but his contribution allowed us to dictate play and create chances. Did Arsenal do that today?
Andez, I agree Hleb is gone and it’s almost senseless to talk about him. My whole point is Theo Walcott is the one Wenger has trusted to step into the fold and not produce the same game but create a product that has a similar team benefit. It’s unlikely to happen but it seems what we’re stuck with. Also despite Hleb’s lack of goals, we still managed to find the net more frequently with him in the team than not. My concern is, now that he’s gone, where are our chances going to come from?
It’s too easy to have someone kick the crap out of Fabregas to keep him from hurting them. Prophetically, with no Flamini out there, we’ve become a “soft touch” again. Have we replaced him, technically, yet? I’m sure we missed him getting stuck in, barking out orders, and providing that steel on the pitch as well. What have we done to replace that component? Time will tell if we’ve done anything at all.
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:38 pm
It is very disingenuous to suggest we are suffering now because we are missing the “creativity” Hleb provided - especially considering we have 3 blanks in midfield.
If we get a second “nasri” type for RM and have Nasri 1, new RM, Walcott and Rosicky battle it out for the wing positions we will have ZERO creativity problems.
If/When we get in the bulldog CM to partner Fabregas and have Song and Diaby back them up, we will be strong in the center as well.
Leave Hleb in the past, he is currently sitting on the bench behind Iniesta.
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:03 pm
I said the same thing JD. Without Flam we’re in danger of becoming a soft-touch in midfield. Everyone assured me Flamini was easy to replace
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Yeah, but we were all expecting Wenger to actually REPLACE him - not stick with Denilson.
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Who gives a crap about replacing him technically? His technique wasn’t the strength of his game. His never say die and fight to the death with anyone attitude is what we missed. Him yelling at referees and opponents when our guys got kicked, his determination and hard work is what we miss. We’ve got enough technicians. We need some steel to go with all that “technique”.
BTW, did we miss Lehmann today, too? I haven’t seen the game yet but do you think Jens could have made a save on that goal?
August 24th, 2008 at 12:55 am
No Josh. Gallas lost him. Nothing Almunia could do in a tapin from 3 yards.
August 24th, 2008 at 9:47 am
LDE, joshuad has a point. Not that Lehmann would’ve saved the tap-in but it was a low cross. I didn’t consider it and would need to see a replay or two but the “save” in question is would Lehmann cut out the cross instead of staying on the line.
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Joshuad, Flamini was barking out orders, shouting, pulling his sleeves up etc in 2005, 2006, 2007 when he deputised in central midfield and he was still an incompetent, talentless worker with no real tangible value. He was basically a Denilson with more urgency.
Last season he upped his game a bit and did well. Still, I don’t think he’s that big a loss. Gorkan Inler or Gareth Barry could easily come in and replace what he gave. Flamini’s looking great now cause Denilson is completely useless. Flamini had one decent season and was not part of our plans in the season’s before.
The Hleb and Fabregas dynamic is the one we’re really missing; a dynamic that was organically nurtured and developed over three ardous seasons. In terms of percentage importance it was Fabregas 40 %, Hleb 40 %, Flamini 20 %.
Flamini is a loss though, I won’t deny that.
August 24th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Got to strongly disagree with you there Mazza.
Like you, I know nothing about Inler. Barry as good as he is does not have the engine or the aggression to do what Flamini did. Personally from what I saw Diarra was not even an adequate replacement for Flamini simply because he could not have a consistent impact on the game as Flamini did. Diarra sometimes appeared not to be on the pitch, Flamini imposed himself always despite the inferior technical ability.
Joshuad got it spot on it is not his technical ability that made Flamini so important to us. I am still hoping Denilson can step up to the plate however, though I doubt he has the necessary abilities to do so.
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:50 pm
“Yeah, but we were all expecting Wenger to actually REPLACE him - not stick with Denilson.”
Ok, so you got that wrong too
August 24th, 2008 at 3:26 am
Got what wrong??
Flamini is not hard to replace if you actually buy somebody to replace him … where are you coming from?
August 24th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Fred name a good replacement then. There is a possibility that Wenger cannot get the perfect replacement i.e he does not want to come or is too highly priced. If he was easy to replace then Denilson, Diaby or Ramsey should be able to do the job. Not the case though is it?
August 24th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Jeez, what is hard to understand …. Denilson and Diaby are not “hustler” type CMs so they cant. Any hardworking CM can replicate that….
There are MANY CMs out there that can do a job … there is Corluka, there is De La Red, there is Inler there are many other “unknowns” out there.
Wenger is just trying to be “cheap” … cheap does not get you anywhere.
August 24th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Fred you miss my point, the point i am trying to make is that to find an adequate replacement for Flamini is not that easy.
First of all you did as I did rule out almost our enitre midfield i.e Denilson & Diaby, yes I agree they are not the “hustler” type. Then you come up with De La Red, I ain’t seen him play at length and he he is untested in the premiership not sure he has the experience to find his way straight away, and of course he is not for sale. Can Corluka have the impact Flamini had in our side, I doubt it however I will bet he will be overpriced or not for sale.
As for the unknowns that’s what they remain unknown not neccesarily going to be an instant success at 6 million. Best option would have been to keep Famini and pay him a little extra.
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Hleb was never a complete answer. His ability is always dependent on the players around him (even more than is accepted as normal). His weakness was hi-lighted through the protracted absences of RvP and Rosicky. If RvP and Rosicky had contributed anything like a reasonable season we’d likely be champions, Flam and Hleb would likely have stayed, Ade’s head wouldn’t have turned, and Wener would have a base upon which to further build and develop the ‘Le Grande’ experiment.
It didn’t happen so the experiment has unravelled a little bit (or perhaps not so little).
August 24th, 2008 at 12:16 am
I think I’m going to be sick…….for the love of god Wenger, sign some experience before the deadline.
We can’t afford to develop players on the pitch when it matters, that is the job of 2nd rate teams that will never finish top 4 in the EPL.
unacceptable.
August 24th, 2008 at 12:45 am
Having a field day eh guys? Have fun. The vehemence of some comments really makes me wonder - How desperate are you to get proved right so you can shove it down people’s throats? Anyway its a free board. Continue writing.
Saw the full game. Here are my views:
Almunia - Did Fulham even hav e a shot on goal apart from the goal? Cant blame too much.
Sagna - Reasonable going forward , tried to take the game by the scruff by putting in a large number of crosses in. Sadly a lot of them were off target as well. Still atleast he tried.
Clichy; Pretty much like Sagna, some nice link up play at times with Nasri and tried getting into the box as well. No end product though.
Toure - Recovery pace got us out of jail once or twice. Made fewer driving runs forward though than usual and got subbed. Still working his way back from Malaria? Fitness? Role change? Dunno.
Gallas - Direct fault for the goal. Lost his marker - free tapin. Thats 2 mistakes in 2 games now. Last week we got lucky - this week we weren’t.
Nasri - Breath of fresh air in a tepid tepid game. Tried a lot but nothing came off..primarily due to a virtually non existent midfield.
Denilson - I thought he wasn’t the worst player on the pitch. Atleast he was showing himself — which is good. Really though that isn’t saying much at all. Passing was off and too many square passes. The reaction overall though was quite OTT considering no one was playing well.
Eboue - Sad to say although he made a few nice driving runs late on and actually got fouled!!! .. his overall DM position is in major threat as is his spot in the team IMO. The biggest problem is — Who goes forward when? Who goes into defense when? No linkups what so ever.
Theo - Too much running into blind alleys and getting shrugged off. If he can stop , wait and think before starting to run on whether there is a pass on he will be fine. Lets hope that he develops faster.
RVP - Worst on the night for me. What has he done all season? Still rusty? I dont know why. Those free kicks were all RVP range. I’m not saying 4 goals but atleast over the wall. Even in open play he was practically invisible. Needs to come good..fast.
Ade - Tried a lot. Most potent attacker. Unlucky with the post header. Cant fault the front man too much though if the midfield performed so poorly.
Bendtner - Poor. Why was he waving his arms in the air so much? How much did he touch the ball?
Song - Best player on the night. Opening up Fulham’s defenses with his runs and balls forward in 15 minutes. Maybe should have started instead of Eboue but thats not how AW works anyway.
Lastly why were we so out of touch with the slickness of the pitch??? How many times did the ball run out of play? That said it all for me. Overhit passes.
Big improvement needed. I’m guessing the same squad starts against Twente as well with only Song in place of Eboue. Thats what AW will do. Demand a reaction. Hope we improve - has to be one of our poorest performances after that dreadful Sheffield United game where we lost 1-0.
p.s… What everyone’s saying now about Denilson — everyone were saying about Ade, Flam, Song etc. He had an off day — not equal —to he is shit.
August 24th, 2008 at 3:44 am
“”Having a field day eh guys? Have fun. The vehemence of some comments really makes me wonder - How desperate are you to get proved right so you can shove it down people’s throats? Anyway its a free board. Continue writing.”"
Honestly and I am really saying this with respect, are you really blind or you are just saying this out of stubbornness? Are you really telling me that you think this squad is strong enough to at least get into 2 place or a close 3rd? Or do you have a fixed, permanent mindset.
Please tell me … what is wrong with Wenger going and buying some competent unknown and hardworking CM (in the competence mold of Sagna/Eduardo) for about 5 to 8 million and getting a RM for about the same or even trying to nick an experienced guy for RM like he did with Silvestre???
What is wrong with getting in 2 more players for midfield for 15 to 20 max and thereby increasing our squad depth and also allowing us not to flog Fabregas, Nasri and Rosicky to death by February while also winning matches and at least putting in a solid challenge for the title?
Is that an immoral, unethical thing to do? Or are your thoughts set in stone??
August 24th, 2008 at 1:11 am
Problem is when mediocre players like Denilson have an off day it is catastrophic. Lampard can have a shit day but still not look as bad and then either Ballack, Deco or Essien can always lift the team.
If Cesc has an off day, we’ll look to Walcott, Eboue, Ramsey..
Please AW this is becoming painful to watch. I’m so glad I don’t pay to watch these games live. I think I’d have a fit
August 24th, 2008 at 1:14 am
In that case since we’re never going to get Ballack,Lampard,Deco,Essien what do you propose we do?
August 24th, 2008 at 3:35 am
Get some else in - cheap, competent, hardworking, mid-twenties, for about 5 to 8 million. How about that?
August 24th, 2008 at 1:59 am
Okay Mazza, Flamini may have been pulling on sleeves and barking out orders with little skill etc. but who was doing that yesterday? When the team was getting bossed in midfield, who was out there directing traffic and giving guidance? Who was out there taking fouls when we needed to relieve the pressure that Fulham put on us? Which of our technical guys were out there to fight when we needed someone to put in a strong tackle and try to change the tone? Who was out there urging the team on? That’s what leaders do, with or without an armband, and that’s what Flamini gave us.
Also agree with live_dont_exsist in that Denilson is a descent player and he didn’t just turn to crap overnight. Fabregas has had bad games where he gave the ball away, too. It’s just that he had help when his form was bad. Don’t know if Fab has had as bad a night as Denilson did last night.? He’s still a young guy. We’ll see how he does.
August 24th, 2008 at 3:34 am
What do you mean? So the excuse now is that he is out of form? He has played badly in the 3 competitive matches, but its just lack of form for Denilson….
How about we get in somebody competent in the “sagna” mold for 6 and 7 million (ie. CHEAP, wont break the bank) so that our results wont suffer why Denilson gets back to form if he can manage that??
Some talk as if Arsenal is a charity that should be looking out for the player’s personal interests. Wow!
August 24th, 2008 at 10:34 am
No, Fred. Don’t be ridiculous. It’s to say that all players have bad games. Perhaps Denilson just had a bad game yesterday. Perhaps he’s having a bad bit of form early in the season. Perhaps he needs better players around him to be at his best. But we’ve all seen him play and know that he can play. Sure we could go out and buy someone but they can have a bad run of games as well. Fabregas could come back and have a bad run of games. Where does it end?
Lastly, it’s not about losing Hleb but it’s not about adequately replacing his contribution to our overall style of play. You are biased against the guy seemingly because you believe he should have scored more. Well, scoring goals is not a strength of his game. What can you do? It’s possible for an AM player to control/distribute the ball and be important to the team’s overall play and not be a good finisher. I’m always happy when a player plays within himself and Hleb did that.
I agree that if we get another playmaker in, we may not miss Hleb. But we haven’t gotten another playmaker in. Where does that leave us?
August 24th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Please stop talking about Hleb.
My conclusion is that we need to do something - ie. buy somebody in CM. We cant afford to fooling around with a “youth” player who cant grab a golden opportunity when it is handed to him.
August 24th, 2008 at 4:23 am
Wenger explained the issue - it’s Le Grande Experiment. It’s not that there aren’t players available in the 23-25 age-group. It’s Wenger’s commitment to his new approach - buy young or not at all. He wants to grow a young team, knit it together, and in his mind buying older players will undermine this venture. That’s why he refers to “not wanting to hold the young players back”.
What about Sagna and Eduardo? Well I’m guessing he has a (small) magic number of older players that he’s prepared to tolerate in the masterplan. And anyway Sagna and Eduardo were relatively unknown so they were semi-acceptable.
The basic idea of growing a young team makes a lot of sense, the issue is how far you should go to achieve the benefits and still remain capable of challenging for the title? Wenger, as with his footballing style, seems to be going to an extreme. This is where I have lost faith in his approach. You could see the quick impact Eduardo and Sagna had on the squad compared to the bevy of young players. The young guys bloom when they bloom - contrast Eduardo and Sagna - they’re much more able to be loaded with responsbility quickly and to provide a return.
And contrary to the economic argument, the outlay for Eduardo and Sagna is not that much more than for a Walcott or Ramsey. Wenger would argue…..”ah yes! but the up-side is much higher”.
Frankly that isn’t the issue. We are a professional football club not an investment bank. I’m all for fiscal prudence and commercially astute management but if we don’t win trophies this is all going to be a tad academic.
August 24th, 2008 at 4:38 am
Fred, that’s correct. I didn’t agree that we would easily replace Flamini and I still don’t. That was for 3 reasons.
1. Flamini had worked out how to fill the role rather nicely. I liked what he brought to the role, and his 3 years at the club provided him a good base of knowing how the team played. Add to that his good relationships with his team-mates particularly Fab and Hleb. Not to mention his willingness to do what I call the dirty-work and to play the hardman.
2. I couldn’t see any internal candidates with similar attributes.
3. I very much doubted that Wenger would turn around and quickly fill the void from outside.
That’s where I’m coming from.
August 24th, 2008 at 5:33 am
I wonder if Wenger is missing Dein?
Would things have got so extreme if Dein was around to chew the fat?
Would we be days away from the close of the xfer window, having watched Wenger salivating at signing the 17 year old Ramsey when Diarra, Flamini and Gilberto 3 international central midfielders have just walked out the door?
Just a random thought, but I wonder whether being in Wenger’s shoes is not extremely lonely. Sure he has his trusted coaching staff but I’m guessing Dein was on another level - able to toss around ideas without any fear with Wenger. After all, they were both good friends and ultimately Dein was Wenger’s paymaster. Now who challenges Wenger’s thinking? Who says, I’ll call the Liverpool chairman and finalise a deal for Alonso……or whoever.
August 24th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Kiwi, your comments are on the money; particularly the ones concerning Dein and Flamini; particularly Flamini. He did the dirty work so that our technical players could be more technical. Right now, we’re like the galacticos without Makelele. Somebody’s got to do the dirty work. I thought Muamba had all the necessary qualities to do the job. Maybe Song will be our guy. Time will tell.
August 24th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
some of the comments are pretty biased. gave me an impression some ppl are more concerned of talking up the players they rate, and trashing the players they don’t rate regardless of the actual performance on the pitch.
for instance, yesterday’s match what’s our real problem? that we couldnt win the ball back? or we couldn’t create chances and kept possession?
i m sicked of Eboue’s play acting antics, but was he the worst performance yesterday as a DM? did he fail to win the ball back? was he the one who often lost the ball?
I rate Denilson, and still do. yet from what i seen, Denilson was playing in the Fabregas role yesterday, the one who’s supposed to create and keep our passing game going. Did he ma